ebay problem - got billed $200 for fedex duties, seller treathening

[God_Anubis]

i bought a laptop from ebay from california for around $1k and got slapped with fedex charges (duties + tax) for $200US 2 MONTHS after I received the item. it turns out the seller is threatening to go to collections and into litigation to reclaim his $200.

fedex is forcing him to pay the bills since I refused to pay.


I ebay often and know about customs fees, duties,etc and found it a bit odd that I hadn't received the bill, especially since my address has been flagged by customs (i.e. they open any of my packages that is worth > $20)

my question is, what are my options? is there any way I can dispute the charges. the only reason I ask this is that he used a shipping method that would allow the buyer to receive the laptop and then pay the bill later. Had I known this, i would have REFUSED the package right away and told the postman to send it right back to the seller. I had specifically asked the seller to ship using USPS.

[i6s1]

If he would have shipped USPS, you would have still had to pay $140 GST and PST and a small charge. Offer him $150 to pay your taxes. Tell him the rest is his fault cause you asked him to ship USPS. (Presumably it was one of his shipping options and he agreed.)

[Career07]

my 2 cents:

If you have proof eg email of you asking to ship USPS and seller agreeing, then fight it.

If you have no proof split the shipping cost, $100 each.

I always ask seller if the ship USPS and shipping cost. ALso I tell Seller UPS has high rip off fees.

[Kasakato]

How did he agree to ship it? Thats the deciding factor. I say split it.

[Shaner]

If he stated in writing that he would use USPS, then you have a case.

If he never made such a statement, then you are responsible for every penny of that $200. When you make a bid on E-bay, you are agreeing to the sellers terms. Unless it was specifically stated that the seller would use USPS, then it is at his discretion which shipping service to use. You can say what you want about Fed-Ex, but that is your problem, not the sellers problem.

Give the guy his money, it's not his fault that our border likes to rip us off.

[Chr1s]

If he would have shipped USPS, you would have still had to pay $140 GST and PST and a small charge. Offer him $150 to pay your taxes. Tell him the rest is his fault cause you asked him to ship USPS. (Presumably it was one of his shipping options and he agreed.)

+1

Pay the GST+PST.

FedEx is funny that way. I've had them come after me the very same way, well after I have received my package.

[Rehan]

How much was the actual customs clearance fee from Fedex? Isn't it less than $10? In that case, wouldn't the difference between USPS and FedEx be only $5 or so?

[Kasakato]

How much was the actual customs clearance fee from Fedex? Isn't it less than $10? In that case, wouldn't the difference between USPS and FedEx be only $5 or so?

Brokerage is a lot more than that with FedEx. http://www.stokecity.ca/FTN-FXG%20Brokerage%20Schedule%2003-01-04%20English%20Version.pdf

[Rehan]

Brokerage is a lot more than that with FedEx. http://www.stokecity.ca/FTN-FXG%20Brokerage%20Schedule%2003-01-04%20English%20Version.pdf Does that rate schedule from 2004 still apply? I thought they switched to a reasonable flat rate...but I may be wrong.

[TapemanPL]

one thing i ask is...what are they(fedex) holding against the two of you to force you to pay? you already have the package, so they're not holding it from you. can't the two of you completely refuse to pay? if they send a collection agency to collect from you just shut the door in their face

[i6s1]

http://www.fedex.com/ca_english/rates/downloads/addcharges_express.pdf

2.5%, plus random other charges.

I wonder what the rest of the $200 was.

[i6s1]

one thing i ask is...what are they(fedex) holding against the two of you to force you to pay? you already have the package, so they're not holding it from you. can't the two of you completely refuse to pay? if they send a collection agency to collect from you just shut the door in their face

If you ignore collection agents, they ruin your credit. They don't really care if you don't think you should have to pay PST and GST on your new laptop.

[Kasakato]

Does that rate schedule from 2004 still apply? I thought they switched to a reasonable flat rate...but I may be wrong.

It still works out to about those prices, after you add all of their bonds, CODs, etc.

[Kasakato]

Why not call FedEx and tell them that if you had known it would cost you so much to accept, you would not have taken it?

[rdtx2002]

Why not call FedEx and tell them that if you had known it would cost you so much to accept, you would not have taken it?

like that would help.................. :lol:

[i6s1]

like that would help.................. :lol:

It would, it would give someone at Fedex a good laugh.

[Kasakato]

like that would help.................. :lol:

It worked for some people with UPS, and if I remember, FedEx. They only had to pay tax and $5 brokerage. Just play dumb.

[deejayspinz]

Did the seller state in the auction that customs & duties are the buyers' responsibility? Most do. If so, then pay the $$ and dont shaft the guy. You took the risk. Even with USPS you take a risk (less than UPS crap and others) at being hit with customs. I have bought and sold a lot on ebay and always make it clear to buyers that they are taking a chance with it, but ultimately its their responsibility if they get nailed.

[Shaner]

Did the seller state in the auction that customs & duties are the buyers' responsibility? Most do. If so, then pay the $$ and dont shaft the guy. You took the risk. Even with USPS you take a risk (less than UPS crap and others) at being hit with customs. I have bought and sold a lot on ebay and always make it clear to buyers that they are taking a chance with it, but ultimately its their responsibility if they get nailed.

Doesn't matter if the seller stated that or not. Unless there was some specific agreement in writing, then the buyer is responsible for ALL shipping and handling costs, regardless of who the item was shipped with.

[d_jedi]

Well, you're definately on the hook for taxes.. 14% GST+PST.. as for the rest of the cost..

OTOH, I really don't like the scammy practice of these shipping companies to do such a thing.. I received such a customs notice a few weeks after receiving some books.. and the invoice was from a company that wasn't even the shipping company!

[reqle55]

Hope you find a way to settle everything OP. When I bought 2 laptops from ebay totalling $2900. I had them send it to a ups center by niagara. Picked them up but made sure i had a bunch of school books with me. Looked like I went over just after school with my lappy and books.

[God_Anubis]

one thing i ask is...what are they(fedex) holding against the two of you to force you to pay? you already have the package, so they're not holding it from you. can't the two of you completely refuse to pay? if they send a collection agency to collect from you just shut the door in their face

1. Fedex had billed me 2 mo after the fact
2. I refused payment.
3. According to Fedex policy, if the payment is defaulted by the buyer, the seller has to automatically pick up the tab. This rule specifically applies in accordance with the shipping method this lardas$ seller used.
4. I presume the seller has already made payment to Fedex or is in the process of doing so. The bloke now wants to report me to collections and file a civil suit with buyer (me)......over $200.

With regards to proof of evidence for my request to have seller use USPS, I used ebay's messaging system to notify him of this. I do not have the original written dialog as it's been about 8 mo after the transaction (transaction happened in nov 2006) and ebay periodically deletes the mailbox.

http://www.fedex.com/ca_english/rate...es_express.pdf

2.5%, plus random other charges.

I wonder what the rest of the $200 was.

Canadian import duties, gst + pst, handling fee. Ultimately it's the duties that kills.

The original price of the laptop was $860US. So to calculate USPS customs fees, it would have been:
14% tax of $860USD + $5.00CAD handling fee
=120.4US (1.11 currency) + 5CAD
= ~ $139 CAD

Now fedex charged me $200 usd = ~$222.

I'm guessing that the duties was the difference between the 2 values above.....so: approx $83 duties, which sounds about right.

[God_Anubis]

Doesn't matter if the seller stated that or not. Unless there was some specific agreement in writing, then the buyer is responsible for ALL shipping and handling costs, regardless of who the item was shipped with.

what about the $83 brokerage fees which the fedex broker had charged for painstakingly trying to figure out the value of laptop. obviously you need to have a degree in rocket science to be able to charge that much for the brokerage fees.....

I'm willing to pay the $120 which was the gst+pst and another $5 to $10 for handling but that's about it

[i6s1]

1. Fedex had billed me 2 mo after the fact
2. I refused payment.
3. According to Fedex policy, if the payment is defaulted by the buyer, the seller has to automatically pick up the tab. This rule specifically applies in accordance with the shipping method this lardas$ seller used.
4. I presume the seller has already made payment to Fedex or is in the process of doing so. The bloke now wants to report me to collections and file a civil suit with buyer (me)......over $200.

With regards to proof of evidence for my request to have seller use USPS, I used ebay's messaging system to notify him of this. I do not have the original written dialog as it's been about 8 mo after the transaction (transaction happened in nov 2006) and ebay periodically deletes the mailbox.



Canadian import duties, gst + pst, handling fee. Ultimately it's the duties that kills.

The original price of the laptop was $860US. So to calculate USPS customs fees, it would have been:
14% tax of $860USD + $5.00CAD handling fee
=120.4US (1.11 currency) + 5CAD
= ~ $139 CAD

Now fedex charged me $200 usd = ~$222.

I'm guessing that the duties was the difference between the 2 values above.....so: approx $83 duties, which sounds about right.

No, there shouldn't be any duties, depending on where it was made. The rest is probably misc service charges.

[God_Anubis]

No, there shouldn't be any duties, depending on where it was made. The rest is probably misc service charges.

duties, customs fees, brokerage fees, whatever you wanna called it. Private couriers are notorious for charging exorbitant fees like that (I once got charged $60 fees for a ps2 console which cost me $80, I send the package right back because the guy was using UPS.)

If you are very certain that I was unlawfully charged these fees, then I will look into it.

The laptop was made in Japan. It was a Fujitsu N series 17" widescreen MCE laptop. The seller's name is Brad Erickson.

[God_Anubis]

Why not call FedEx and tell them that if you had known it would cost you so much to accept, you would not have taken it?

Thanks for the reassurance. If only the situation was as simple as that.

Here's a conversation I just had with Ms. Miller (that's what she called herself, and supposedly, the CSR & manager of the collection agency).

Ms. Miller: According to Brad Erickson (the seller), You owe us $200.
Me: I'm going to dispute the charges.
Ms. Miller: That's none of our concern. Will you pay the fees or no?
Me: I still have 30 days to decide, as written in your notice.
Ms. Miller: Since you opted for nonpayment, I'm going to proceed with the collections. You will receive a 100 point deduction in your credit rating which won't be erased for 7 years, blah blah blah blah., have a good day.
Me: But hold on, I have one question.
Ms Miller: *dial tone*.

hehe..this was actually quite amusing. She kind of sounded like my girlfriend on PMS.

[barqy]

just out of curiosity, how did your address get flagged by customs? and how do you know it's flagged??

[legendofxix]

Thanks for the reassurance. If only the situation was as simple as that.

Here's a conversation I just had with Ms. Miller (that's what she called herself, and supposedly, the CSR & manager of the collection agency).

Ms. Miller: According to Brad Erickson (the seller), You owe us $200.
Me: I'm going to dispute the charges.
Ms. Miller: That's none of our concern. Will you pay the fees or no?
Me: I still have 30 days to decide, as written in your notice.
Ms. Miller: Since you opted for nonpayment, I'm going to proceed with the collections. You will receive a 100 point deduction in your credit rating which won't be erased for 7 years, blah blah blah blah., have a good day.
Me: But hold on, I have one question.
Ms Miller: *dial tone*.

hehe..this was actually quite amusing. She kind of sounded like my girlfriend on PMS.
Since when did companies outright tell you how much of a deduction will be on your credit score as well as the fact that they just magically disappear after 7 years?

[Rehan]

Since when did companies outright tell you how much of a deduction will be on your credit score as well as the fact that they just magically disappear after 7 years? She was just giving a ballpark figure... The ding on the credit score could be 50-100 points. And in Canada, the record of the collection is automagically purged from your credit file after 6 years.

[Bazooka Joe]

I know it's way past the point now, but it likely would have been prudent to offer the seller GST, PST and half of the duties. The arguement could have been that since you had previously agreed on a shipper, this would be an equitable way to solve the dispute. Basically, for $40 you could have avoided a credit hit (it won't be as bad as the collections agency is trying to scare you into believing, but it will be a hit) and the endless hassle of them calling.

Outright refusal to pay for 6 months is likely what led to this position. The seller believed that it would be more proffitable to go to a collections agency than to continue to deal with you.

Edit: Did the seller actually promise to use another shipping method? This is unclear. If not, you're 100% responsible for shipping costs.

[God_Anubis]

just out of curiosity, how did your address get flagged by customs? and how do you know it's flagged??

well, usually if you're a frequent buyer of merchandise from the US, Canada customs will eventually pick up on it.

initially, a few packages (> $20) would slip and not get charged any customs fees, but now every item I receive gets slapped with fees. Sometimes, even if the package is marked as "gift" they will still charge me fees if the item is value is between ($20 - $60) because I've been flagged.




I know it's way past the point now, but it likely would have been prudent to offer the seller GST, PST and half of the duties. The arguement could have been that since you had previously agreed on a shipper, this would be an equitable way to solve the dispute. Basically, for $40 you could have avoided a credit hit (it won't be as bad as the collections agency is trying to scare you into believing, but it will be a hit) and the endless hassle of them calling.

Outright refusal to pay for 6 months is likely what led to this position. The seller believed that it would be more proffitable to go to a collections agency than to continue to deal with you.

Edit: Did the seller actually promise to use another shipping method? This is unclear. If not, you're 100% responsible for shipping costs.

I know what you mean. Unfortunately, at this stage the seller has decided to pursue other means.

No, the seller did not promise to me (i.e. give me an acknowledgment in writing) to use another shipping method. He had 100% feedback, I assumed that when I wrote to him to use USPS, that he would do so.


She was just giving a ballpark figure... The ding on the credit score could be 50-100 points. And in Canada, the record of the collection is automagically purged from your credit file after 6 years.

I guess what you're saying is that she was trying to coerce/scare me into paying for it. Also, is the credit point reduction based on amount of the fee? so If I owed $500 would that have affected my credit score further? Let's take the avg of 50-100.....75...is that going to severely affect my credit rating? Other than this, I have a pretty good score. I always pay my bills on time and I make a lot of transactions using my credit cards.

This reminds me of a similar situation with my uncle where he owed $700-800 in long distance charges through bell (apparently he had a dialer installed on his computer). They threatened to go to collections. About a year later, he decided to buy a car and was surprised that there wasn't even a ding on his credit rating.

The seller's may/may not pursue litigation, as I'm at this stage not so inclined to believe what's coming out of Ms. Miller's mouth. What are his chances of getting the money back if he goes to small claims court?

[Shaner]

You have specifically stated that the seller didn't promise to use USPS, so what right do you have to withhold money from the seller? You as the buyer are 100% responsible for all shipping and handling fees, even if those fees are excessive. The seller is not responsible for covering any of those fees.

Your issue is with Fed-Ex, do the right thing and give the seller back the money he is entitled to. It's not worth possibly ruining your credit. A 75 point reduction could have a very negative impact on your credit score and it will be there for 6 years. Is it really worth it?

[God_Anubis]

You have specifically stated that the seller didn't promise to use USPS, so what right do you have to withhold money from the seller? You as the buyer are 100% responsible for all shipping and handling fees, even if those fees are excessive. The seller is not responsible for covering any of those fees.

Your issue is with Fed-Ex, do the right thing and give the seller back the money he is entitled to. It's not worth possibly ruining your credit. A 75 point reduction could have a very negative impact on your credit score and it will be there for 6 years. Is it really worth it?

At this stage in the game, what I'm afraid of is that I could get doubly screwed over by the seller. Seller gets his money, I get the ding on my CR, then it would be pain in the ass to sort the mess out. I don't think he's too happy with me, esp. since I've let so much time pass .he also has to pay the bill for the collections agency

[barqy]

well, usually if you're a frequent buyer of merchandise from the US, Canada customs will eventually pick up on it.

initially, a few packages (> $20) would slip and not get charged any customs fees, but now every item I receive gets slapped with fees. Sometimes, even if the package is marked as "gift" they will still charge me fees if the item is value is between ($20 - $60) because I've been flagged.

oh really? first time ive heard of that happening!

(getting stuff shipped a lot would raise suspicions)