Whats so bad about rear wheel drive?

[thejew]

I'm looking to buy a 96 bmw and many people are saying rear wheel drive is bad...why is this?

[chickenbones]

I'm looking to buy a 96 bmw and many people are saying rear wheel is drive...why is this?

I don't get your question. What are people saying about "rear wheel is drive"?

[notanexpert]

I'm looking to buy a 96 bmw and many people are saying rear wheel is drive...why is this?

Yes, I've heard that before: "It is rear wheel drive", said in a way as if this was a bad thing. You can answer, F1 cars are rear wheel drive too!
Personally, I would not touch anything FWD with a 10 foot pole, I hate the way it feels when booting it through a corner. Many AWD cars also feel in corners much like FWD, so I'm not a big fan of many of those either. For me its RWD all the way.

[ElvaSoShexai]

people say rear wheel drive is bad because it oversteers more and oversteer is harder to control (for the average pesron) than understeer. i think it's because having ur car slide out from behind makes people more scared and can't think.

it also requires more precaution in poor/winter weather and going up hills.

i think those are the only reasons tho

[Azxster]

Yes, I've heard that before: "It is rear wheel drive", said in a way as if this was a bad thing. You can answer, F1 cars are rear wheel drive too!
Personally, I would not touch anything FWD with a 10 foot pole, I hate the way it feels when booting it through a corner. Many AWD cars also feel in corners much like FWD, so I'm not a big fan of many of those either. For me its RWD all the way.

Oh please... like RWD doesn't have its downside.

[gman]

It is easier to unstuck a FWD car (than a RWD car).

[Jon Lai]

Yes, I've heard that before: "It is rear wheel drive", said in a way as if this was a bad thing. You can answer, F1 cars are rear wheel drive too!
Personally, I would not touch anything FWD with a 10 foot pole, I hate the way it feels when booting it through a corner. Many AWD cars also feel in corners much like FWD, so I'm not a big fan of many of those either. For me its RWD all the way.

It's all about the "feel" eh?
For me, AWD FTW. It's about the safety aspect and AWD delivers that in addition to more power ;)
I don't feel the "way it feels when booting it through a corner", btw :P

[bembol]

I was told Winter is the only issue with RWD but Snow Tires easily solds that problem.

[thejew]

It is easier to unstuck a FWD car (than a RWD car).

How so? (for the record i've never driven a rear wheel drive car)

[sexpuppet6000]

I was told Winter is the only issue with RWD but Snow Tires easily solds that problem.

snow tires help.

[chickenbones]

Many AWD cars also feel in corners much like FWD, so I'm not a big fan of many of those either. For me its RWD all the way.

I think some AWD are very front biased, so that could explain how they feel like FWD.

Subaru Symmetrical AWD wouldn't feel like a FWD =)

[Yau888]

People say RWD is bad because during winter you'll get stuck in the snow more often. When we use to have a volvo, we put bags of salt in the trunk to keep the back end heavy. Now with a civic, we didnt have to do that anymore. Keep in mind that RWD and FWD handles differently. You can go test drive to see the difference.

[new_vr]

A RWD car will have a tendency to oversteer. An FWD will understeer. Under normal driving conditions, you shouldn't notice too much of either, and even if you do, it should be easy to control.
When you get into bad conditions, like snow, these features will be more pronounced. The big difference is...if your car is understeering, it is going basically straight. If you are oversteering, you are going sideways. This can be disconcerting to someone who is not expecting it.
Also, with FWD, most of the weight is over the wheels. This is why it gets better traction in snow.

[B0000rt]

snow tires help.

I was told Winter is the only issue with RWD but Snow Tires easily solds that problem.

They are WINTER TIRES, not Snow tires.

[phucyall]

There is absolutely nothing more fun then a RWD in a little bit of snow.
My first car was RWD and I've been dying for one ever since.

The trick is you have to learn what it feels like in a skid first. Then you have to learn how to control it. Beyond that RWD is way more fun to drive then FWD or even AWD. If you are inexperienced driver or a much older driver I would not recommend it though.

Now here's one thing you do have to keep in mind. FWD is the most efficient way to transfer the power from the engine to the wheels. Also by far the cheapest. The downside are things like torque steer though.

RWD provides additional power loss due to extra gears/joints/friction created with the use of a driveshaft to transfer the power to the back. I've heard figures as high as 10% of power lost between the transmission and the wheels due to the driveshaft.

AWD is an even higher power loss, for much the same reasons.

[thejew]

wow guys!
such a wealth of information in a couple of posts! thanks for the comprehensive comparison. I geuss i'll have to test her out and see how she handles.

[lint]

It's all about the "feel" eh?
For me, AWD FTW. It's about the safety aspect and AWD delivers that in addition to more power ;)
I don't feel the "way it feels when booting it through a corner", btw :P

What does more power have to do with FWD vs RWD vs AWD? Does a 166hp AWD impreza deliver more power than a 230 hp FWD SRT4? AWD delivers LESS power to the road if the engine output is the same due to drive train loss.

Nothing wrong with RWD. I prefer it over FWD as well, and as long as you invest in a good set of winters tires. Most people who drive FWD cars settle for all seasons because "they're good enough".

[TenzoR]

What does more power have to do with FWD vs RWD vs AWD? Does a 166hp AWD impreza deliver more power than a 230 hp FWD SRT4? AWD delivers LESS power to the road if the engine output is the same due to drive train loss.

Nothing wrong with RWD. I prefer it over FWD as well, and as long as you invest in a good set of winters tires. Most people who drive FWD cars settle for all seasons because "they're good enough".

More of the power in an AWD can be use then a FWD/RWD. For example, you have a 1000HP FWD/RWD car and a 1000HP AWD car. The AWD car can put the power down far easier and use more of it then 1000HP FWD. Whatever your drive wheel is, its limited by the contact its making with the ground, more contact = more traction.

[notanexpert]

I think some AWD are very front biased, so that could explain how they feel like FWD.

Subaru Symmetrical AWD wouldn't feel like a FWD =)

My wife drives a Subaru, a manual '00 Legacy. Feels like FWD about 90% of the time, especially on dry roads. The only AWD cars that I liked the handling on were the BMWs, Audis and a VW Passat. Seemed a lot more rear-biased than the Subaru, or just a tighter center diff (since the Audis and VW use a torsen center diff as opposed to a viscous LSD on the Suby). The new 3-series in the xi models is nicely rear-biased, but while booting it around on really slippery surfaces, the system seems overly busy transfering torque back and forth between the front and rear axles.

[gheart008]

Why is it bad when every top end car is RWD? You won't find a single luxury brand (Benz, BMW, Lexus, Audi, as well as the super high end brands) car that uses FWD (except the Benz B-Class, but I wouldn't consider that luxury for a second since it's just a glorified econobox).

[rupert]

What does more power have to do with FWD vs RWD vs AWD? Does a 166hp AWD impreza deliver more power than a 230 hp FWD SRT4? AWD delivers LESS power to the road if the engine output is the same due to drive train loss.

The 'transfer' of power to the ground has everything to do with FWD vs RWD vs AWD.

In real world acceleration, weight is shifted to the back of the car. In RWD, this is what we want, more weight in the rear, right where the drive wheels are. In a FWD config. the front end is being lifted up during acceleration. What good is more power at the wheel if there is no friction with the ground?

Yes there is more drivetrain loss in RWD and AWD systems but they transfer more power to the ground than FWD.

[new_vr]

Why is it bad when every top end car is RWD? You won't find a single luxury brand (Benz, BMW, Lexus, Audi, as well as the super high end brands) car that uses FWD (except the Benz B-Class, but I wouldn't consider that luxury for a second since it's just a glorified econobox).
Except Acura

[gheart008]

Except Acura

Hence I didn't include Acura in my list. Acura seems to make some luxury cars in their higher end lineup, but they also tend to the economy market as well, so I wouldn't consider Acura as a pure luxury brand.

[atb1o1]

If you have RWD, winter tires are a must. Winter tires are also expensive :)

[bobbings]

winter driving is horrible for those inexperienced drivers. if you get used to it, it should be fine

[new_vr]

Hence I didn't include Acura in my list. Acura seems to make some luxury cars in their higher end lineup, but they also tend to the economy market as well, so I wouldn't consider Acura as a pure luxury brand.

Well...I would consider a TL as luxury as a 3 series, and it's FWD

[sonyminidiscman]

Yes, I've heard that before: "It is rear wheel drive", said in a way as if this was a bad thing. You can answer, F1 cars are rear wheel drive too!
Personally, I would not touch anything FWD with a 10 foot pole, I hate the way it feels when booting it through a corner. Many AWD cars also feel in corners much like FWD, so I'm not a big fan of many of those either. For me its RWD all the way.

i slowly drove pass a very expensive Eclass with my FWD corolla in an uphill during snow storm...........

Also, i was in my nice warm corolla while the porsche beside me can't get up the driveway in a snow storm.....

i guess if u live where there are no snow storms, then ur statement is true

[sonyminidiscman]

The 'transfer' of power to the ground has everything to do with FWD vs RWD vs AWD.

In real world acceleration, weight is shifted to the back of the car. In RWD, this is what we want, more weight in the rear, right where the drive wheels are. In a FWD config. the front end is being lifted up during acceleration. What good is more power at the wheel if there is no friction with the ground?

Yes there is more drivetrain loss in RWD and AWD systems but they transfer more power to the ground than FWD.

i believe there is also a maximum hp you can put in a FWD car............

[MkmBandit]

FWD Cars have much better traction in the harsh Canadian winters, which is why they are more common. As pervious posters have suggested, RWD cars tend to oversteer, whilst FWD cars tend to understeer, giving the driver a chance to slow down and correct the angle of the turn. However, one thing that NO FWD can do, is brake/turn or accelerate/turn at the same time. You always get understeer, which can be a very bad thing. For example, I was driving my mitsu last winter and I was approaching a turn on an inside road, literally at 10km/h, the car had a horrible understeer and went straight into the snowbank. Hence why I have no left foglight. I would loved to have had a RWD car in that situation.

RWD cars are quite a bit trickier in the snow for the average driver. Having your wheels push your car uphill on show is no easy task. You'll be tackling that slope alot slower then your FWD counterparts. RWD cars also fishtail like crazy in snow. Even slight direction changes will cause your back end to slip out. For experienced drivers, they can actually take advantage of this flaw and utilize it to control the car better around turns. Like I said above, when I hit that snowbank, a RWD car could have prevented it

AWD. ALL road cars should be AWD, especially with the brutal weather we experience. The only disadvantage I see with AWD, is that they're not quite as fast when racing on dry tracks. That shouldn't be an issue in your case. They also don't drift as well as RWD cars, but who the hell cares? You're not going anywhere fast trying to drift around corners anyways..

[MkmBandit]

i believe there is also a maximum hp you can put in a FWD car............

Not quite, FWD cars can push out as much HP as you desire. Traction is the flaw. FWD cars simply can't handle exorbitant amounts of HP. Typical FWD's will start slipping around the 350-400hp range, no street legal slicks could possibly handle more then that. Quite a disadvantage when dragging from a dig.

[new_vr]

AWD. ALL road cars should be AWD, especially with the brutal weather we experience. The only disadvantage I see with AWD, is that they're not quite as fast when racing on dry tracks. That shouldn't be an issue in your case. They also don't drift as well as RWD cars, but who the hell cares? You're not going anywhere fast trying to drift around corners anyways..
I disagree on this point. If you aren't overdriving the car, you shouldn't have a problem with a FWD car. If you are worried, get some better tires. AWD does have two big drawbacks, they use more fuel, and cost more to repair then either FWD or RWD

[dgmorr]

buy my RWD car in the FS section and you'll get to own an inexpensive fun RWD car. Do it!

Trying to keep it straight in any gear on the salty or snowy roads keeps you awake.

[dgmorr]

I disagree on this point. If you aren't overdriving the car, you shouldn't have a problem with a FWD car.

This is true. If the OP even has to ask, there's no way he'll be reaching any limits of the car. I bet you could tell the average driver their car is 1 side wheel drive and they wouldn't know.

[sonyminidiscman]

Not quite, FWD cars can push out as much HP as you desire. Traction is the flaw. FWD cars simply can't handle exorbitant amounts of HP. Typical FWD's will start slipping around the 350-400hp range, no street legal slicks could possibly handle more then that. Quite a disadvantage when dragging from a dig.

yeah, that was my point...... a max hp where beyond that there is no way the power can get down on the ground.......

[notanexpert]

i slowly drove pass a very expensive Eclass with my FWD corolla in an uphill during snow storm...........

Also, i was in my nice warm corolla while the porsche beside me can't get up the driveway in a snow storm.....

i guess if u live where there are no snow storms, then ur statement is true

I find that the choice of tire has much more impact on how well a car does on snow and ice than the choice of drivetrain. I had an Audi A6 quattro stuck on my driveway in the winter with high performance all-season tires, while I had no problems navigating the same driveway with my RWD car with proper winter tires.
I put winter tires on my wife's Suby for the same reason I put them on my car. When we first had the Suby on all-seasons in a winter storm, I thought I could kill myself driving it while being used to driving a RWD car on winter tires, that had massively superior braking and cornering.

[enko]

While we're on the subject....

what's the cheapest RWD car around these days for a beater? in the 1000-2000$ range... :)

[MkmBandit]

I disagree on this point. If you aren't overdriving the car, you shouldn't have a problem with a FWD car. If you are worried, get some better tires. AWD does have two big drawbacks, they use more fuel, and cost more to repair then either FWD or RWD

disagree on which point? That all road cars should be AWD? Thats just my opinion, they definately make winter driving easier. Theres nothing wrong with FWD cars, just that understeer is a big factor you must consider.

yeah, that was my point...... a max hp where beyond that there is no way the power can get down on the ground.......

Yeah I was just elaborating. I know what you meant ;)

While we're on the subject....

what's the cheapest RWD car around these days for a beater? in the 1000-2000$ range... :)

Pre-94 Volvo's or Old school Subaru wagons :razz:

[notanexpert]

...
Pre-94 Volvo's or Old school Subaru wagons :razz:

An old school Subaru wagon would either be AWD or FWD.

[notanexpert]

While we're on the subject....

what's the cheapest RWD car around these days for a beater? in the 1000-2000$ range... :)

For durability, nothing beats the Volvo 240 probably, it is pretty ugly though.
You can get a lot of cheap american RWD cars too, like an early-90's 4-cylinder Mustang, but that is really crappy quality.

[MkmBandit]

An old school Subaru wagon would either be AWD or FWD.

Whatever they are, my neighbour has been driving one through Canadian winters for years. It must be like a 1994 Legacy wagon, he pwns everyone in the snow.

[dgmorr]

While we're on the subject....

what's the cheapest RWD car around these days for a beater? in the 1000-2000$ range... :)

My car for sale. Look at my post ;)

[enko]

Ouch, BMW :) Pass.

[thephenom]

Not quite, FWD cars can push out as much HP as you desire. Traction is the flaw. FWD cars simply can't handle exorbitant amounts of HP. Typical FWD's will start slipping around the 350-400hp range, no street legal slicks could possibly handle more then that. Quite a disadvantage when dragging from a dig.
That's only for dragging, on a real world scenario where roads have twists and turns. High-horsepower FWD cars (Over 200hp) all suffer from Torque steer, while it varies from car to car, the front wheels can not handle the car's acceleration and turning at the same time. That is why RWD cars are known to be better handling cars.

However, FWD is far more "predictable" to drive for most drivers than a RWD on dry, wet AND snowy roads.

AWD are nice, but they are quite inefficient with high tranny loss, fuel consumption. Yes, you can much more grip on all 4 wheels in all conditions, but it's far from being the best "handling" drivetrain.

[Narci]

RWD are very very fun to drive. I lovem. Miss the feeling of being pushed from behind.

They might be a little more maintenece since you might have to change the rear diff oils, check/change the Drive shaft/U Joints but that shoudn't be a problem.

As well, FWD puts less stress on the front end of the car. In a FWD car, the front has to steer and drive. In a rear wheel drive, the front steers while the rear drives.

As everyone else has stated, winter driving and driving in pouring rain could get a little hairy, especially if it doesn't have traction control and a good set of dedicated winter tires.

If you've never driven a RWD (especially a high horsepowered one), you have too. It's one of those thing you must do at least once in your life.

[M-e-X-x]

Many AWD cars also feel in corners much like FWD, so I'm not a big fan of many of those either. For me its RWD all the way.

not this again... this is because those so-called 'awd' cars are fwd, but become awd when slippage is detected... so it's a reactive system... not a full-time permanent system which awd is supposed to be...

[Slippery_Pete]

Miss the feeling of being pushed from behind.


That's what she said.

[gheart008]

Well...I would consider a TL as luxury as a 3 series, and it's FWD

I already said Acura is the only exception out of all the other brands I've mentioned.

[gordholio]

Nothing at all is wrong with rear wheel drive.
Up until the Eighties, about 95% of cars in North America were rear wheel drive and it was just fine.

[Sprite_TM]

because some people dont like to drift...

[TenzoR]

not this again... this is because those so-called 'awd' cars are fwd, but become awd when slippage is detected... so it's a reactive system... not a full-time permanent system which awd is supposed to be...

Depends which AWD system....

[gman]

It is easier to unstuck a FWD car (than a RWD car).

How so? (for the record i've never driven a rear wheel drive car)

If a car is stuck in snow (or mud), a FWD car can move the front wheels to get traction in more angles while a RWD car can only do back and fore.

When I drove a RWD car, if it really stuck, you will need to dig. Sometime, digging may not even be possible if you park in a tight spot (both side has parked car and you back in to a wall).

So far, I never stuck with a FWD car. It may take a while to get it out (such as after I left my car in airport parking lot and came back after a big snow storm) but I never stuck or need to be towed out.

[gman]

Nothing at all is wrong with rear wheel drive.
Up until the Eighties, about 95% of cars in North America were rear wheel drive and it was just fine.

Sure, same as 99% of cars in North America back then did not have ABS or self adjusted speed dependent power steering too. Before 80's, you also did not need to wear seat belt and drink and drive was not illegal.

[AudiDude]

I think most people seem to be unaware that FWD wasn't popular with manufacturers because it was thought to be superior to RWD, but was being pushed because it is cheaper to make. With rear wheel drive cars, you had two people swing the motor and tranny over the engine bay and wrestle it in. The car already had the front crossmember and suspension installed.

With FWD, the engine,crossmember,suspension and most of the exhaust can be jammed in from underneath the car in one shot. That was back in the eighties. Now it seems some manufacturers have some models that they can do the same, but they are RWD.

Yes FWD can get better gas mileage, but after owning a FWD, RWD and AWD at the same time... the FWD has to go. I think it is a bad idea to have a high HP FWD car since I had problems with things like front subframe bolts constantly breaking along with engine stabilisers and the like. Giving gas on the onramp to the highway broke the tires free and the steering wheel whips back and forth making it impossible to steer and go forward. It also has a feeling I hate, kind of like I'm being towed instead of pushed.

The RWD was great. I usually had modified RWD cars and the suspension was tuned meaning when I went into a corner the car was neutral. A little gas induced oversteer that was perfectly controllable (unless you can't drive).RWD also tends to spread the torsional force along the length of the car instead of stressing the front of the car like a FWD.

AWD is fantastic as well, I have no complaints. I would by a low cost FWD to putter around town, but if I was spending any kind of money, FWD is not an option. I have driven high end Acuras, and I still feel like I am being towed. I also don't like transverse AWD cars as they still feel like a FWD car, and most of the cheap Japanese vehicles are the worst offenders, like a CRV. I have seen these vehicles spin the front tires excessively before the rear kicks in.

As far as what is better in the snow, AWD of course. I got stuck in the snow on a hill for one hour (BIG snow storm) in a FWD and was passed by RWD cars fishtailing their way up the hill (debunking the FWD weight over the front wheels = better traction myth). Putting good snow tires on all types of cars and not driving aggressively makes winter driving safe and easy.

As far as worrying about fuel mileage, I don't. I would gladly pay another $600 per year in fuel costs, so long as I can drive a car I truly enjoy instead of some weenie mobile. After all the hours I work, it's worth it. In 1987 I was spending $150/month on fuel.

[new_vr]

[QUOTE=AudiDude;5338173]

As far as what is better in the snow, AWD of course. I got stuck in the snow on a hill for one hour (BIG snow storm) in a FWD and was passed by RWD cars fishtailing their way up the hill (debunking the FWD weight over the front wheels = better traction myth). Putting good snow tires on all types of cars and not driving aggressively makes winter driving safe and easy.
QUOTE]

It's not a myth, it's actually pretty simple physics. All other things being the same, the car with the weight over the wheels will get better traction.

[Mir]

I tell you what; RWD sucks ARSE when it comes to SNOW/Sleet/ICE.
Winter Tire Can Help but would bring close to FWD with BALD Tires (On Front Engine Mounts).

[mystery]

I used to be all for FWD. I now have a Benz C230 Kompressor sedan (RWD), without winter tires.

I've gone through 3 winters using salt/sand bags in the trunk. No accidents whatsoever.

The other compensator is that Benzes have standard Electronic Stability Control which ensures the car travels in the direction intended (elminating/reducing oversteer/understeer).

I remember driving on the Gardiner Expressway @ 120 km/hr in a Snow Storm, and my ESP indicator kept going off (indicating ESP activated brakes at appropriate wheel(s) and reduced engine speed automatically in order to maintain directional stability).

[KawaiiTentacleBeast]

The obvious solution would be to put the engine in the back to make a RR layout, so you get the best of both worlds.

Of course, you all know which car I'm thinking of.....

http://prometheus.med.utah.edu/~bwjones/C1276349108/E1080162364/Media/Smart%20fortwo.jpg

[Avatar]

Well...

FWD is pulling the car. So it can't speed up instantly compared to other cars. However, it's cheaper to produce and shorter braking distance. Understeering when cornering (heavier steering feel). Traction on front wheel.

RWD is pushing the car. Can speed up instantly (Easier to push than pull). Not good for braking (pushing) because of momentum. Oversteering (lighter feel) when cornering which tends to lost control in Winter time. In a word it's good for racing cars in Summer time. Tracktion on rear wheel.

AWD is good thing in both world. But I mean true all time AWD. Not those real time or 4 wheel drive. Has most traction (all wheels). Good grip on road but consume more gas.

[NikonSLR]

Well...

FWD is pulling the car. So it can't speed up instantly compared to other cars. However, it's cheaper to produce and shorter braking distance. Understeering when cornering (heavier steering feel). Traction on front wheel.

RWD is pushing the car. Can speed up instantly (Easier to push than pull). Not good for braking (pushing) because of momentum. Oversteering (lighter feel) when cornering which tends to lost control in Winter time. In a word it's good for racing cars in Summer time. Tracktion on rear wheel.

AWD is good thing in both world. But I mean true all time AWD. Not those real time or 4 wheel drive. Has most traction (all wheels). Good grip on road but consume more gas.

I dont think braking is worse on RWD...i mean all race cars are RWD so i dont think thats true.

[getmail99]

I've gone through 3 winters using salt/sand bags in the trunk. No accidents whatsoever.

Good design, is this an option? Is salt used to melt the snow? How big/heavy are your salt/sand bags? :D Sorry, I cannot take you to the airport because your luggage cannot fit inside the trunk.

Sorry, just can't resist. If a car is well designed for Canadian winter, why do you make all these modifications. If it is not suitable for Canadian winter, why do you want to buy it?

[lint]

More of the power in an AWD can be use then a FWD/RWD. For example, you have a 1000HP FWD/RWD car and a 1000HP AWD car. The AWD car can put the power down far easier and use more of it then 1000HP FWD. Whatever your drive wheel is, its limited by the contact its making with the ground, more contact = more traction.

Traction != power. AWD suffers from drive train power loss, RWD/FWD will always get more hp to the wheels given the same engine.

[lint]

The 'transfer' of power to the ground has everything to do with FWD vs RWD vs AWD.

In real world acceleration, weight is shifted to the back of the car. In RWD, this is what we want, more weight in the rear, right where the drive wheels are. In a FWD config. the front end is being lifted up during acceleration. What good is more power at the wheel if there is no friction with the ground?

Yes there is more drivetrain loss in RWD and AWD systems but they transfer more power to the ground than FWD.

In FWD, the engine (weight) sits right above the drive wheels, it doesn't "lift" during acceleration. Torque steer is another matter.

[new_vr]

I used to be all for FWD. I now have a Benz C230 Kompressor sedan (RWD), without winter tires.

I've gone through 3 winters using salt/sand bags in the trunk. No accidents whatsoever.


Just one thing to ask yourself...what happens to those sand bags if you hit something hard?

[Asad_A203]

The reason many people feel RWD is "Bad" is simply because the driver position. The driver is positioned in the front, when a driver turns the wheels on a FWD, power is sent to the FWD so a driver can see where the car is going, whereas in a RWD power is sent to the rears so the driver can't (a noobie driver) expect where the power is being sent until the turn has been entered; additionally the rear tires do not turn, so there is some loss or confusion of a newbie driver there how the turn should be managed (rears remain facing front while front turn, car might accelerate out of line if throttle is not controlled).

FWD are not chosen for racing applications because:
Torque steer (too much torque causing steering wheel to jerk)
High Horsepower application (cause wheels to spin alot more, premature tire wear).

FWD are good for winter because your front tires will not spin as much and since there up front, they only need to find a patch of traction to pull whereas the rears will continue to spin attempting to push the weight of the whole car forward until it finds traction. RWD with winter tires will minimize this issue. Also RWD cars on turns are vulnerable to oversteer due to my reason in the first paragraph in the winter even more since there is much less traction.

The MAIN reason is that the FWD are given too many duties; they must turn the car and also deliver power. So lets Jim is driving his Mazda Speed 3, and he enters a turn, he applies the brake into the apex but also most turn the steering wheel. Now the front wheels must completely stop delivering the power and turn then power from braking and turning; this causes alot of stress to the Front wheels and leads to premature wear = more pit stops. This isn't too bad with lets say an RSX but when you begin to enter 250 HP area, FWD application is not desirable. Comparably Bob is driving his BMW M3, he enters the turn, brakes turn, and accelerates. The tire wear won't be as heavy on the FW as their only duty now is to turn, as the rear deliver the power.

AWD cars I personally believe are good choices for winter; but not the king application for race cars. There are alot of issues arise when you enter higher Horsepower applications. One of them is that their is power loss as power is diverted to all 4 tires whereas in RWD power goes to the rear only. RWD should be selected for Race car applications.

For your application, you should be just fine. BMW have 50/50 weight distrubtion and most come standard with TCS so it shouldn't be an issue unless you actually think you can go 70 km/h on a turn in winter. If your car has traction control, it limits throttle into turns; limiting your car slipping. But traction control is not a person, so you must also assess your acceleration into turns and the traction available. You should also have winter tires for winter. Our 2004 BMW 330i doesn't have any winter tires, on 20's high performance tires did "Alright" in a Winnipeg winter, but that was just when the vehicle was purchased. This winter we will have some winter tires on there for sure (also don't want to tranish the alloy:) ). There were of course some sliding there and then, but just put the traction control on and RWD will do. People who don't care about driving, choose FWD, as this kills the whole fun of driving a car (although an RSX can be alot of fun) when you can't let the back slip out on that dewy September morning.

[Asad_A203]

Traction != power. AWD suffers from drive train power loss, RWD/FWD will always get more hp to the wheels given the same engine.

Yep, I wonder why people always think AWD is the king of all kings drivetrain. You still get alot of tirewear along with loss of power. I do however love the jump of AWD, in a 3000GT VR4 with HKS 15gs putting out 450 HP, it is a lovely thing to see and experience. The 4400lb car actually looks like it leaped. In addition to your comment, this is why you don't see 1000HP AWD cars. I know the guy who originally posted that statement is going to say Skyline R34, but most tuners disable the AWD system to allow the power to go to the rear. Those who dont, are those who usually have a 600 HP Skyline. Another reason why Supras are horsepower monsters whereas for Skyline/3000gts it is alot harder to achieve similar gains.

[Asad_A203]

Except Acura

Not Acura anymore, they are switching to their SH-AWD platform. Only FWD still in fleet are the TSX and TL which will be replaced next year. The CSX is just Acura Canada trying to squeeze more cash out of Canada and for all purposes should be ignored from any discussion as this is just a civic.

[mystery]

Just one thing to ask yourself...what happens to those sand bags if you hit something hard?

I only have two of them and they are tucked in nicely over each rear wheel.

[mystery]

Good design, is this an option? Is salt used to melt the snow? How big/heavy are your salt/sand bags? :D Sorry, I cannot take you to the airport because your luggage cannot fit inside the trunk.

Sorry, just can't resist. If a car is well designed for Canadian winter, why do you make all these modifications. If it is not suitable for Canadian winter, why do you want to buy it?

A lot of people with RWD cars put extra weight in the rear. It just makes sense to have more weight over the driving wheels in order to START moving.

And as I said, the ESP more than compensates for oversteer/understeer.

RWD is always been the norm for true performance/luxury cars.

[Mir]

, in a 3000GT VR4 with HKS 15gs putting out 450 HP, it is a lovely thing to see and experience. The 4400lb car actually looks like it leaped. .

Yep a Broken Trany Leapord~
In those car if you putting out over 300 HP to wheels you better BEEF UP the Skimpy TRANY ....... or NO Hard /Jack Rabbit Lanches~

[phomp]

I'm looking to buy a 96 bmw and many people are saying rear wheel drive is bad...why is this?

Have not read any responses yet, but im going to say this. Who said this? Because they do not know what they are talking about.... How is RWD bad?

I personally drive a FWD car right now but I prefer RWD.

Prehaps some one is giving you their opinion and not the facts... because if it was so bad many luxury cars and sports cars (like the bmw your looking at) would not use it.. correct?

[getmail99]

A lot of people with RWD cars put extra weight in the rear. It just makes sense to have more weight over the driving wheels in order to START moving.


Thanks, you answered the OP question, "Whats so bad about rear wheel drive?".

Try drive up Don Mills Road with RWD and FWD under heavy snow. I never buy a RWD again.

[getmail99]

i slowly drove pass a very expensive Eclass with my FWD corolla in an uphill during snow storm...........

Also, i was in my nice warm corolla while the porsche beside me can't get up the driveway in a snow storm.....

i guess if u live where there are no snow storms, then ur statement is true

+1

[mystery]

http://www.canadiandriver.com/winter/020619.htm

[mystery]

Thanks, you answered the OP question, "Whats so bad about rear wheel drive?".

Try drive up Don Mills Road with RWD and FWD under heavy snow. I never buy a RWD again.

As I said, I have never had an accident in my RWD car. And I have driven up hills in snow storms. The extra added weight in the rear can compensate for the decreased traction required to start moving. Once the cars are moving, FWD has no advantage over RWD.

[Spray]

I took my FWD saab to mosport last year (stage4, approx 320hp/360 tq) and was fastest by far in my class. It was fairly amusing seeing 600whp mustangs, BMW m3's and porsches, corvettes trying to keep traction in a heavy downpour.

FWD are good for some things :P

I'd also wager that a VERY fast and hard hitting turbo FWD car like the saab would destroy other cars in a long track like "The Ring". Speaking from someone who owned a high performance FWD car for a while trust me, you can have a LOT of fun with it, especially on the highway. I do have the most fun with my current car, getting full traction all the time, but it does suffer once it's on the highway from that drivetrain loss.

Oh well a bigger turbo will go on soon :P

[enko]

I'd like to thank everyone for responding with their amusing and fictional answers to this topic, and please continue, it's providing lots of entertainment for me.

My favorite so far is how it's easy for a mechanical engine to push a car then to pull it.

[and or]

Both RWD and FWD are fun in their own unique ways!

[cereal83]

I took my FWD saab to mosport last year (stage4, approx 320hp/360 tq) and was fastest by far in my class. It was fairly amusing seeing 600whp mustangs, BMW m3's and porsches, corvettes trying to keep traction in a heavy downpour.

FWD are good for some things :P

I'd also wager that a VERY fast and hard hitting turbo FWD car like the saab would destroy other cars in a long track like "The Ring". Speaking from someone who owned a high performance FWD car for a while trust me, you can have a LOT of fun with it, especially on the highway. I do have the most fun with my current car, getting full traction all the time, but it does suffer once it's on the highway from that drivetrain loss.

Oh well a bigger turbo will go on soon :P



Gotta love that torque steer. ;)

[notanexpert]

I took my FWD saab to mosport last year (stage4, approx 320hp/360 tq) and was fastest by far in my class. It was fairly amusing seeing 600whp mustangs, BMW m3's and porsches, corvettes trying to keep traction in a heavy downpour.

FWD are good for some things :P

I'd also wager that a VERY fast and hard hitting turbo FWD car like the saab would destroy other cars in a long track like "The Ring". Speaking from someone who owned a high performance FWD car for a while trust me, you can have a LOT of fun with it, especially on the highway. I do have the most fun with my current car, getting full traction all the time, but it does suffer once it's on the highway from that drivetrain loss.

Oh well a bigger turbo will go on soon :P

You've got to let the F1 guys in on your secret!

And the drivetrain losses are actually the smallest on a FWD transverse engine car. RWD cars always suffer more drivetrain losses because the power has to be "turned" 90 degrees from a longitudonal engine to the axle using a cone shaped gear set, which is ALWAYS less efficient than not having to turn the power 90 degrees like in a FWD transverse engine car.

[Spray]

Haha well on a DRY track obviously a RWD car would destroy a FWD car with the same driver, but you can really go at it with a FWD car if you know what you're doing. It's obviously not an ideal car for the track though.

Drivetrain loss I said my CURRENT car which is an AWD Subaru Legacy spec B

You've got to let the F1 guys in on your secret!

And the drivetrain losses are actually the smallest on a FWD transverse engine car. RWD cars always suffer more drivetrain losses because the power has to be "turned" 90 degrees from a longitudonal engine to the axle using a cone shaped gear set, which is ALWAYS less efficient than not having to turn the power 90 degrees like in a FWD transverse engine car.

[Asad_A203]

Yep a Broken Trany Leapord~
In those car if you putting out over 300 HP to wheels you better BEEF UP the Skimpy TRANY ....... or NO Hard /Jack Rabbit Lanches~

The tranny is a Getrag, not the ones you have in a DSM. The stock tranny can hold up to 450 HP stock before you need to start upgrading the internals, although most people start rebuilds in the 400 HP region. And VR4 come stock with 320 HP ~approx 270 WHP so i dont understand how the tranny would give out with 30 more HP. The biggest problem with the car is the 2nd gear sycro ring given and its mostly be people who powershift.

[thejew]

lol wow, what has this thread turned into. But thanks for the continued discussion!