Go to University?

[MS_Project]

Hi,

I always dreamed of getting a University degree someday in life. I wasn’t the smartest student in high school but I am hard working that makes the difference. Back in high school, I didn’t have excellent grades in the last two years of high school and didn’t know exactly what I wanted to do. I took a variety of courses ranging from business, technology, science, math, and you name it all. Then, I decided to go to College in 2004.

Recently, I graduated from College with excellent grades and plan to get a degree in University. It’s one of those College and University agreements that students can complete their degree within a short period of time (2 years) with the assumption of no failing subjects. I’ll be starting this September.

My mind keeps telling me that it’s a long stressful path. And some of my friends I knew in high school already graduated (got their degree) and started working full time this summer. It makes me feel a little embarrassed and I’m getting old (around twenty two). Also, many RFD members graduated with a degree and find University to be useless without any work experience. Most importantly, I’ll end up with a College diploma + University degree and will this be useful? Most of my friends told me to forget about University and work for 2 years and gain work experience instead. Is it worth it to risk this and invest 2 more years in University? I feel a little exhausted from College already but I can probably handle two more years of reading textbooks. What’s the average age in North America to get their College diploma/University degree? Any other suggestions?

Thanks

[duckling.]

Hi,

I always dreamed of getting a University degree someday in life. I wasn’t the smartest student in high school but I am hard working that makes the difference. Back in high school, I didn’t have excellent grades in the last two years of high school and didn’t know exactly what I wanted to do. I took a variety of courses ranging from business, technology, science, math, and you name it all. Then, I decided to go to College in 2004.

Recently, I graduated from College with excellent grades and plan to get a degree in University. It’s one of those College and University agreements that students can complete their degree within a short period of time (2 years) with the assumption of no failing subjects. I’ll be starting this September.

My mind keeps telling me that it’s a long stressful path. And some of my friends I knew in high school already graduated (got their degree) and started working full time this summer. It makes me feel a little embarrassed and I’m getting old (around twenty two). Also, many RFD members graduated with a degree and find University to be useless without any work experience. Most importantly, I’ll end up with a College diploma + University degree and will this be useful? Most of my friends told me to forget about University and work for 2 years and gain work experience instead. Is it worth it to risk this and invest 2 more years in University? I feel a little exhausted from College already but I can probably handle two more years of reading textbooks. What’s the average age in North America to get their College diploma/University degree? Any other suggestions?

Thanks


Uhh... why so stressed about the age factor? Is it because your friends or your parents are saying you're a fool? Who cares, do what you want. As to if it's any use or not, I wouldn't be able to tell you since I'm still a University student and I don't know too many friends who graduated from College yet (eg. they're still attending), but who cares about age. I see some people who are easily 30~40 years old in my first year classes. My significant other is 23 and hasn't graduated yet. Heck, I still see my brother's friends around school and he's 28 and about to have a kid.

[codex]

22? old? what??? I just graduated from undergrad and I'm 24... that's normal for people like me who did OAC followed by a 5 year co-op program.

I'm going back in September for my Masters, that'll be another ~2 years... so I'll most likely be 26 before that's over...

what's the big deal? if you've 'always dreamed of getting a University degree' then why even question it? Now is as good a time as any. It will much, much harder for you to go back to school a few years from now or complete your Bachelor's on a part-time basis.

Assuming the degree is something you still want then absolutely start in September... just make sure you're studying something that you'll enjoy and hopefully something that will improve your job prospects upon graduation. Of course, university won't be easy... it's an investment in your future, and I'm sure it's something you won't regret doing a few years from now.

[heymikey]

You're only 22. When I was in university, I've had classmates who were in their 30's. Going to university is really necessary depending on what you want to do with your life. If you want to be a doctor or an engineer, then of course it is necessary. I wouldn't want someone to cut me up open and transplant a kidney if I ever needed one by someone who never went to university, or drive through a bridge designed by someone who failed math or physics. But then again, you don't need a degree to become a successful realtor or a franchise owner. Then, there are jobs out there that even find liberal arts degrees to be really useful.

You really seem unsure what you want to do with your life. First, you need to sit down and ask yourself what you want to do with your life. That will tell you whether or not university is right for you.

As for your question, some of the statistics that I have seen state that the average undergraduate university student is around 28 years old.

[pitz]

Yeah university is useless. Employers basically won't hire you because they think you will cost a lot to keep around. R&D budgets in Canada have been slashed to the bone, and the US isn't a very competitive place to move to like it was in the past with the weak Canadian dollar.

I'd highly discourage it. Get yourself a job right out of high school, and then get the job to pay for school (night classes, etc.). You'll have much more money in the long run, not have a lot of debt, and at least you'll have some useful skills aside from what you learned from the academics.

[Rosico]

er, what did you study in college - what do you want to study in uni - and what do you want to do afterwards?

[silvermist99]

I am 22 & a recent college grad. I graduated dec 06 & started working full time right away in my field (IT). I got pressured into working F/T by parents right away and didn't have a choice (due to $). I got lucky & found a job right after graduation. Its been half a year since working F/T.. and I feel that I need more education. My coworkers always tell me I'm a quick learner.. but compare to other higher up people in my company, i feel like I don't know much and undereducated... Luckily I found a new job that has education reimbursement and I only have to work 3 days a week (f/t salary) so I'm looking into going back to school for some sort of IT/management degree and work f/t at the same time.

Another Advantage of working F/T as soon as possible is if you are smart with your money, you can get ahead of most people in that age bracket(put $ into rrsp, house down payment, other investments etc...)

for 7 out of 10 people I'd say finishing university first will be a better route if they're ok financially... 22 is still pretty young. I got lucky & found an employer that'll pay for my everything w/ low work load.

[coolspot]

Yeah university is useless. Employers basically won't hire you because they think you will cost a lot to keep around. R&D budgets in Canada have been slashed to the bone, and the US isn't a very competitive place to move to like it was in the past with the weak Canadian dollar.

I'd highly discourage it. Get yourself a job right out of high school, and then get the job to pay for school (night classes, etc.). You'll have much more money in the long run, not have a lot of debt, and at least you'll have some useful skills aside from what you learned from the academics.

Actually this is all false or based upon anacedotal evidence. Studies have shown that on average a person with a degree earns more than a person with a high school or college diploma.

[silvermist99]

Actually this is all false or based upon anacedotal evidence. Studies have shown that on average a person with a degree earns more than a person with a high school or college diploma.

the average university grad makes more than teh college grad.. but is it because most university grads try harder than college grads?
It could be a possibility. When I went to college, a large majority of my classmates were very unmotivated and didn't care about the classes. The university classes I've been to with friends aren't like that.

[MS_Project]

Thanks everyone!
I've made up my mind and will be going to University for a few more years to get the degree. I guess a degree has become more popular nowadays.

Also, silvermist99 is probably right about the students in College vs University. I took a few courses in University before and noticed a big difference.

Thanks :D

[BadDrafter]

Yeah university is useless. Employers basically won't hire you because they think you will cost a lot to keep around. R&D budgets in Canada have been slashed to the bone, and the US isn't a very competitive place to move to like it was in the past with the weak Canadian dollar.

I'd highly discourage it. Get yourself a job right out of high school, and then get the job to pay for school (night classes, etc.). You'll have much more money in the long run, not have a lot of debt, and at least you'll have some useful skills aside from what you learned from the academics.

That is the most worthless post I've ever read on Red Flag Deals.

[The Master]

The is the most worthless post I've ever read on Red Flag Deals.

+1

By the way, I don't know what the big deal is with the age factor. I'm 23 and I have also have completed 3 years of college and 1 in university so far, with one more to go. If I'd have to guess I'd say that at least 90% of the people in my classes were between 20-28. So your right on track!

[pcpchan]

Age is not really a factor, is what you want to do matter. Really graduating 2 years later just mean you can work 2 years less in your career, which is not a big deal at all, unless you have other stuff that you need money desparately.

Ask yourself, what kind of position you think you will be in 10 years from today? If you can't answer it, better think about it before you make your decision now!!

If you know your answer, then work for your answer. If doing university will bring you to the answer, then do an excellent job about it.

And don't regret your decision

[pitz]

That is the most worthless post I've ever read on Red Flag Deals.

How so? When times are good in a particular sector or field, everyone gets hired. When times are bad (as they are for engineers right now), then nobody gets hired unless they have good experience behind them.

Get out there, establish some ties with employers, get some experience, get some financial help with your studies, and trust me, you will likely be far better off in almost any field of study.

[BadDrafter]

How so? When times are good in a particular sector or field, everyone gets hired. When times are bad (as they are for engineers right now), then nobody gets hired unless they have good experience behind them.

Get out there, establish some ties with employers, get some experience, get some financial help with your studies, and trust me, you will likely be far better off in almost any field of study.

How so? Because in this new global economy and in the coming years, a university education will be worth more as we compete directly against other nations. In ten to twenty years somebody without such an education will be at a serious disadvantage. The governments of most of our competing countries do not share your lack of value in such an education.

On the other side of the coin, there are millions of immigrants that are willing to do unskilled work for less, and willing to come here to do it. More skills will always trump less skills when that time arrives.

[coolspot]

How so? When times are good in a particular sector or field, everyone gets hired. When times are bad (as they are for engineers right now), then nobody gets hired unless they have good experience behind them.

Get out there, establish some ties with employers, get some experience, get some financial help with your studies, and trust me, you will likely be far better off in almost any field of study.

Even when times are bad, degree holders still earn more!

http://www.hrsdc.gc.ca/en/cs/sp/hrsdc/lp/publications/sp-662-09-06/page06.shtml

"For males, the entry for 1992 suggest that the wage difference is around 20% and statistically significant at conventional levels. The university returns are estimated to be lower in 1997 and 2002 (around 15%). For females, the earnings differences are estimated to be higher: 28% in 1992, 33% in 1997, and 27% in 2002."

15% more income is quite significant!

The fact sheet from the Council of Ontario Univerities seems to reinforce this argument - the numbers are even higher:

http://www.cou.on.ca/content/objects/BR_Ontario_College_and_University_Fact_Sheet.pdf

So perhaps your method worked great for you - but if I were to bet on it (and I have - went to Uni), I would take the degree over a diploma.

[netriones]

IMHO, if you have cash to pay for university and beleive in education than go for it. But I suggest don't borrow money to go to university. It's a big gamble.

Yep, higher education gives higher salary threshold. However, higher income doesn't necessarrily increase one's financial well being. Most people spend more and get in more credit card debt etc when they have higher income.

If money is the issue, financial educatioin is more inportant than university education.

[beerbaron105]

university is not a measure of success...garbagemen make alot more then 75% of uni-grads for at least 5+yrs of their careers, that can equal a big head start in life considering no need for formal education and proper investing....


but if your dream is to go to university then follow it

[coolspot]

Yep, higher education gives higher salary threshold. However, higher income doesn't necessarrily increase one's financial well being. Most people spend more and get in more credit card debt etc when they have higher income.

That's because the person lacks financial planning skills - this is not a reflection of university education. In fact, Statistic Canada mentions that wealthy Canadians are twice as likely as low-income earners to have attended university...

In anycase using your logic going on welfare is perhaps the best option? No education, no cost, free money?

university is not a measure of success...garbagemen make alot more then 75% of uni-grads for at least 5+yrs of their careers, that can equal a big head start in life considering no need for formal education and proper investing

What's the salary of an average sanitation worker? What's percentage of the population that are in santiation?

We're talking on average and in general people with degrees earn more. There are always specifc cases - in fact one could become a sex worker and earn gobs of money with NO schooling ;)

[hi-tech]

Don't worry about age what so ever. Most of my friends at university are 24-25. Tons of grad students who are in there late 20's. Also lots and I really mean A LOT of people come back to do second or third degree's. My self, I'm 21 going in to 3rd year because I took one year off after high school. Trust me, age isn't any thing at university.

[scratchieepants]

Umm, if this is what you want to do, the positives by far outweigh the negatives.

I regret not finishing my degree at Rye High. I've done "well" considering the lack of formal degree, but I am pretty sure things would be "better" had I graduated.

[mf99]

On one hand, getting a university degree is not worth it. The average university graduate has a very hard time finding a job, and many of the jobs are just entry level clerical jobs.

On the other hand, a university degree is now essential for many jobs. For instance, I was talking to someone in Human Resources, and she said that they don't hire pharmaceutical sales representatives if they don't have a university degree. It is a pre-requisite now.

So, it's a mixed bag, and it depends on where you want to be. If you want to do an office job with more potential to more up, you may want a university degree. If you want to go into trade and make just as much money, or if you want to start your own business, a university degree may not be as useful as practical experience.

[mingming]

I just finished my undergrad and I'm 24!!! My friend from the same class is already 26 (because he came from another country during highschool so he had to redo some years).

Age doesnt make a difference. Many people take different paths (find a new interest/major, obstacles, etc), but who cares!!! I still have friends with whom I graduated with in highschool that still havent finished undergrad.

Back in 1st year, we had some 40 yr old dude in our first yr engineering class.

[beerbaron105]

What's the salary of an average sanitation worker? What's percentage of the population that are in santiation?

We're talking on average and in general people with degrees earn more. There are always specifc cases - in fact one could become a sex worker and earn gobs of money with NO schooling ;)

well then the average university student goes 50k into debt and takes a general business degree landing a 25-30k entry level position where they have to hack and slash themselves to the top over the course of decades...thats if they can even find employment related to their education, most end up working back at their highschool jobs (supermarkets, fast food)

[YnD]

Cant believe the negativity towards not getting a degree. Seems like the bashers just dont have one and have to bash it by saying.. "experience > degree" and all that bull.

What's wrong with having a degree AND work experience...

IMO not getting a degree leaves a big door closed...

University isn't just about education... it has tons of career resources, networking with profs, companies that visit (ton of them do), giving u access to job postings not on workopolis/monster at the same time your learning.

Also you meet people...friends...who will become a network for jobs as well....and of course there's girls :)

It is also in a sense a status symbol to use in discussions about education with family/friends when asked.

If I didn't have a degree.. I wouldn't be able to work as a consultant on a TN Visa for in the states UNLESS I had 5+ years of consulting experience. Kind of hard to have that when your under 25.

Here is some statistics about University grads and employment rates in their related disciplines:

Ryerson (since I believe you were going there)
http://www.ryerson.ca/about/data/other/

Overall:
http://www.ouac.on.ca/news/2003_Survey.pdf

[devious9191]

In my opinion, you need to do 'something' ;p Clarifying a bit.. the average earning of someone with a university degree are roughly the same as a tradesperson.

Figure out what you want to do, and do it.

Personally, I found my university degree to be of little value, and work in trades now. I prefer that type of work, and make as much as I would working 'in my field of study'.

However, I don't believe that someone out of highschool should just start working, and hope that that experience somehow turns into something of value. Someone working in a call centre for 10 years or doing a labor type of job isn't going to have experience that will be valued over someone just coming out of university.

In my opinion if what you want to do for a living doesn't need the extra years of school, don't bother. Contrary to popular belief, being at a comfortable level of income doing a job that you don't have to push yourself out of bed to go to is better than making the big bucks, working 15 hour days in a job you hate.

[vbvb]

lets put the wage difference aside for a second.
I cant imagine growing up and living my life being uneducated... education is power and sense of feeling that you have accomplished something in life. I dont know maybe different people have been brought up in different types of families but I would not be able to be uneducated to a level that when my 14 year old son asks me a homework question i cannot answer him.

Also remember when you are uneducated, there is a high % chance your kid will take the same route.

And again about the money discussion, alot of you keep saying how garbage men etc make more money than university grads. That may be true, but its due to the dirty nature of the job. I dont want to spent the rest of my life working as a garbage man.

How about you guys stop comparing yourselfs to "average university student salary" and try to work a bit harder and stand out, then compare the lifestyle/earnings with a non university grad.

Finally university education is nothing more than human capital investment. You are investing in yourself, and yes its true some people are better off not getting a degree because it won't pay off, but to anyone who wants to not be "average student" in university in some bullsh1t major then its totally different.

[YnD]

lets put the wage difference aside for a second.
I cant imagine growing up and living my life being uneducated... education is power and sense of feeling that you have accomplished something in life. I dont know maybe different people have been brought up in different types of families but I would not be able to be uneducated to a level that when my 14 year old son asks me a homework question i cannot answer him.

Also remember when you are uneducated, there is a high % chance your kid will take the same route.

And again about the money discussion, alot of you keep saying how garbage men etc make more money than university grads. That may be true, but its due to the dirty nature of the job. I dont want to spent the rest of my life working as a garbage man.

How about you guys stop comparing yourselfs to "average university student salary" and try to work a bit harder and stand out, then compare the lifestyle/earnings with a non university grad.

Finally university education is nothing more than human capital investment. You are investing in yourself, and yes its true some people are better off not getting a degree because it won't pay off, but to anyone who wants to not be "average student" in university in some bullsh1t major then its totally different.

Couldnt of said it better myself...

Knowledge... analytical skills... etc...

Sure not all of it is "practical" in the workplace...but hey... when you mix the two (degree + experience) you are definately ahead of someone with just experience and no schooling.

[Hunt]

How so? When times are good in a particular sector or field, everyone gets hired. When times are bad (as they are for engineers right now), then nobody gets hired unless they have good experience behind them.



This is a bit of a late response but...

Times are bad for engineers? Where's your source? I just graduated(April) engineering and about 80% of the graduating class (~150) had offers before finishing. The only ones of my class who aren't working are the ones who don't want to yet.

[coolspot]

well then the average university student goes 50k into debt and takes a general business degree landing a 25-30k entry level position where they have to hack and slash themselves to the top over the course of decades...thats if they can even find employment related to their education, most end up working back at their highschool jobs (supermarkets, fast food)

Actually that's not true. Average salary for a university graduate is ~38K after 6 months. 2 years it's ~43K.

College on the other hand is 31K after 6 months. That's a 20% difference!