1997 Lexus ES300 for $12000, 70K should I buy?

[intls]

My friend's friend has a 1997 Lexus ES300 for $12000, 70K One owner, All service record, should I buy a Ten year old car in this price?

Please Advise?

KK

[azn_dan]

autotrader.ca says:

http://www.trader.ca/Members/ValueFinder/Results.asp?Region=100&Year=1997&Category=1&mknm=734&modelcode=18254&subcategory=&mdnm=ES300&CAT=1

Maybe you can haggle it down to 9k? I just did a quick value finder as i haven't checked the cars listed myself.

[rob187jj]

thats a good price if it only has 70k imo. 70k sounds low for a 10year old car


edit: nvm, i just saw a few with a 75k for a couple hundred cheaper.

if u get it for 10-11, its a good deal

[TenzoR]

It's quite pricy for that year, although the mileage is very low but still

[gilboman]

if the car really has only 70k and body is in good shape..that is a decent good deal.. that car will easily last til 200,000kms easy

[rob187jj]

yea thats one thing i would dbl chek, 70k for a 10yr old sounds too low

[intls]

She asked for $12000 firm & as is!!!???

[MP3_SKY]

70000km is low but doesn't mean there will be no repair, many maintenance are due with years and not always with the KM. It is not a bad deal, but for 10000$, it will be better.

[gheart008]

autotrader.ca says:

http://www.trader.ca/Members/ValueFinder/Results.asp?Region=100&Year=1997&Category=1&mknm=734&modelcode=18254&subcategory=&mdnm=ES300&CAT=1

Maybe you can haggle it down to 9k? I just did a quick value finder as i haven't checked the cars listed myself.

She asked for $12000 firm & as is!!!???

Just send her the link that azn_dan has there and tell her it's over the max price of what autotrader has and see if she's willing to budge a bit.

[bobbings]

it's hard to believe that the a 10 year old car has only 70 clicks on it. that's about 7000 km a year. are there maintenance records on that car? 12000 for that car is a little steep imo.

[jackieskwong]

depends how often you drive...lets say a stay at home mom that only uses it to drive kids around and go grocery shopping..

P.S. if its 12k for that i'd rather wait a bit and look around.

[bobbings]

depends how often you drive...lets say a stay at home mom that only uses it to drive kids around and go grocery shopping..

P.S. if its 12k for that i'd rather wait a bit and look around.

that's true, a stay at home mom probably won't rack up the mileage like all of us here. but that's very minimal driving imo for only 7000 km a year. my aunt only drives on weekends to take the kids to saturday classes, grocery shopping etc. and they're already at 60 clicks with a 6 year old car. it's very possible but you also need to watch out for altered odometers.

[urban1]

If the service records are there, it shouldnt be too hard to verify the KMs.

[Caillo]

1st off, as others have mentioned, 70 000 KM for a 10 year old car seems absurd. You need to verify this before you make any decisions.

I would NEVER pay 5 digits for a 10 year old car (even a Lexus), but if it really only has 70K on it, it may be a decent deal.... However, it seems really fishy.

[Narci]

My friend's grandfather had less then 10K km on a 6 year old passat VR6. Then his grandfather bought a C280 and put 6k in 3 years. This is because he lives in HK most of the time.

[CatDog]

I would NEVER pay 5 digits for a 10 year old car (even a Lexus), but if it really only has 70K on it, it may be a decent deal.... However, it seems really fishy.

You obviously have never purchased a luxury car before.

[weales]

70K isn't unheard of, I picked up a 9 year old civic with 73 k on it. Everything was perfect on the car, the Asian who owned it lived in downtown Cornwall so he didn't drive very far at all. Here i am @ 215 k + and it still runs without any issues at all.

To OP: Go for 9 - 10 k.

[Badman]

sounds like a good deal if you get a grand knocked off.

[BartBandy]

A common problem with low mileage cars is that they may have sat for months. Sitting is not good for a car. Seals dry up. Batteries go flat.

Once again, service records can tell you a lot. If it didn't get an oil change for a year or more, recently, it's been sitting.

[ES_Revenge]

You obviously have never purchased a luxury car before.

What does that have to do with it? Also, are you calling the glorified-Camry-that-is-the-ES300 a luxury car? :lol:

Anyway I agree with the other ppl in that 70k isn't unheard of, but I would be at least a little cautious. Also keep in mind that low kms aren't necessarily better than a car with higher/more standard mileage. As mentioned by chansen, low mileage cars may sit around a long time doing nothing (which is sometimes good for the body/paint, but not for a lot of other mechanical components). Plus if the car was always used for short trips those are harder on the engine at least.

The full service history is quite nice, but only if you go over it all. If you just say "oh yeah all records" and then stash all the receipts away in the glove box, you'll never be understanding what was done on the car (and what wasn't, or where any problem areas might have been).

Furthermore just stating there's this car, with this price, and this mileage doesn't really give any means for anyone to say whether you should buy the car or not--that's simply not doing your research. You have to inspect that car--inside, outside, and mechanically--to determine whether you should buy it and/or if it's worth it. Again, inspect the car/have it inspected, go through the service history, and make a more informed decision. Right now as you can see people are saying it could be overpriced but that's just one thing. Just giving mileage and price doesn't really let anyone know whether the car should be purchased or not. You need to inspect that vehicle thoroughly.

Despite the wonderful one-liners of others here about what would be a good deal and what wouldn't pricewise, no one here can tell you if the car is actually a good deal if they haven't seen the car.

[KorruptioN]

Despite the wonderful one-liners of others here about what would be a good deal and what wouldn't pricewise, no one here can tell you if the car is actually a good deal if they haven't seen the car.

And there's the thread, folks.

fake edit:
Revenge: http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5324760&postcount=155

[gilboman]

What does that have to do with it? Also, are you calling the glorified-Camry-that-is-the-ES300 a luxury car? :lol:


well if the acura brand is considered luxury, then, yes the ES300 is a ultra luxury car.

acura exclusively sells rebadged econobox hondas as luxury cars, so in comparison the ES300 is a luxury car:D

[KorruptioN]

well if the acura brand is considered luxury, then, yes the ES300 is a ultra luxury car.

acura exclusively sells rebadged econobox hondas as luxury cars, so in comparison the ES300 is a luxury car:D

And how is Toyota any different? Toyota makes econoboxes also.

Stop trolling.

[bobbings]

And how is Toyota any different? Toyota makes econoboxes also.

Stop trolling.

that is true eh? but somehow, the name Lexus sounds a lot more luxurious than Acura.

[Neb]

that is true eh? but somehow, the name Lexus sounds a lot more luxurious than Acura.

We've been brain washed :) .. Acura and Lexus only exists in specific markets. In Japan I think they are still all Hondas and Toyotas..

[romsan04]

We've been brain washed :) .. Acura and Lexus only exists in specific markets. In Japan I think they are still all Hondas and Toyotas..

That is incorrect.
Acura = NA market only
Lexus = World wide, even in Japan (http://lexus.jp/)

Toyota is trying really hard to make Lexus as the separate brand by not just putting leather seats and calling it luxury.

[gilboman]

And how is Toyota any different? Toyota makes econoboxes also.

Stop trolling.

they dont rebadged most of their econoboxes and sell it as luxury car in the lexus lineup.

heck they dont even have a rebadged corolla in the lexus lineup:cheesygri

the point is not if they make econoboxes or not, but whether they rebadge them and sell it as luxury. heck acura doesnt even have ONE true luxury car in the lineup.

[Asad_A203]

they dont rebadged most of their econoboxes and sell it as luxury car in the lexus lineup.

heck they dont even have a rebadged corolla in the lexus lineup:cheesygri

the point is not if they make econoboxes or not, but whether they rebadge them and sell it as luxury. heck acura doesnt even have ONE true luxury car in the lineup.

Um Actually Toyota does, so do alot of car makers (look at the JDM version, all the cars are released as Toyotas and then rebadged for NA as Lexus (soarer, altezza, windom, etc.). AND Honda doesnt have a rebaged Civic in their line up either (CSX is canadian exclusive):). Toyota and Honda BOTH start rebadging at the Mid Size Sedan level -> ES350, IS350, TSX,TL. Acura is considered a luxury brand by several automotive editors, not by an uncredited opinion from you. It would be difficult you think for a rebadged Honda to sell for 20k more and sell more or same as their European/Japanese Counter part unless for a specific reason. Acura also ranks top in several comparisions of other luxury manufacturers. The only problem with Acura is they haven't switched the drive platform for all their cars which is all the other luxury car makers do. Acura still relys on FWD for two of their entry level vehicles; but are switching over to AWD which should be complete by 2009 (release of the new TL and TSX, only FWD in the fleet). All their other cars (excluding RL) are considered luxury market leaders and remain the number 1 selling luxury brand (even the FWD remain in the the top of the pack) in Canada. If you want 1 true luxury vehicle in their line up: Acura MDX, Acura RL, Acura NSX; maybe if you stopped posting your ignorant posts on RFD, save up 60k, you might be able to experience one for yourself. Not every Acura is an Acura Integra; they were killed for a reason.

ALOT of Luxury car makers rebadge their cars:

Audi = VW + AWD
Infiniti = Nissan + RWD
Lexus = Toyota + RWD + crazy speaker system

It is expensive to remake a completely whole new car so most car companies just use an existing platform, make some modifications, stuff it to the top with leather and goodies, and sell it for 20k more. If you want a REAL luxury car, look at a real luxury car brand; ie: Mercedes, BMW.

[Asad_A203]

And for OP:

70k is very low KM. I would probably try to find the service records to see if the car has any issues from sitting. Also best to inspect for any areas of rusting (tirewells, under the bumper). The Lexus ES300 is a very nice car overall; especially when you get a VIP kit from japan and the Windom body kit for it. Im not a fan of the tail lights though until 2000.

[KawaiiTentacleBeast]

Yes, "put on a VIP body kit". Body kits are always good. :lol:

The "rebadged Toyota" meme is stupid. People are confusing it with the Badge Engineering that GM/Ford does. Yes, they are sold as Toyotas in other markets, but they are distinct models and platforms. Other than the ES and RX, and maybe another on tof the SUVs (which I don't care about because all SUV drivers are doodleheads :lol:) no Lexus car shares any commonality with any other Toyota platform that sells in the same market. All North American Toyota cars are FWD, all the Lexus except the cheapest ES are RWD or AWD. Do you think just because they sell it under a Toyota name plate in another market makes it a worse car? Yeah, the IS is sold as a rebadged Toyota. So why don't you save yourself some money and go buy an Altezza then? Oh, right, YOU CAN'T.

Ironically, the vast majority of people who spout the "rebadged Toyota" BS are just people who have driven domestics all their lives, and are use to GM putting a Caddy badge on a Chevy without changing anything else and selling it for 4x the price, so they just assume that other companies must do the same. :lol:

[weedb0y]

Yes, "put on a VIP body kit". Body kits are always good. :lol:


Ironically, the vast majority of people who spout the "rebadged Toyota" BS are just people who have driven domestics all their lives, and are use to GM putting a Caddy badge on a Chevy without changing anything else and selling it for 4x the price, so they just assume that other companies must do the same. :lol:

You just lost all the credibility that you had in the previous paragraph. Caddilacs are engineered differently.

[ES_Revenge]

well if the acura brand is considered luxury, then, yes the ES300 is a ultra luxury car.
Uh how do you figure? You're saying the whole Acura brand is lower on the luxury chain than the lowly ES300?

So an ES300 is more of a luxury car than an RL? Riiight. haha funny!

acura exclusively sells rebadged econobox hondas as luxury cars, so in comparison the ES300 is a luxury car:D
Again, what now? :confused: First you say Acura sells rebranded Hondas and then ignore the fact that the ES300 is a rebranded Camry (which is not exactly a luxury car either). Plus nevermind that there are probably just as many (or at least a similar number) of Lexus cars that are rebranded Toyotas.

Lets consider some facts instead of throwing around stuff like the ES300 trumps the entire Acura lineup :rolleyes: Because c'mon now that's just silly.

First of all both Acura and Lexus are both considered luxury or at least upscale brands of their Honda and Toyota counterparts. Just because everything's a Honda in Japan and Lexus exists in Japan doesn't really mean all that much. I don't think the Honda Legend (Acura RL) is not considered a luxury car at all in Japan; and certainly I doubt the ES is considered more luxury than a Legend there either. They're both luxury brands, regardless of what goes on in Japan and what doesn't.

Also regarding Japan, what's funny is how here there are many Lexus cars with no Toyota equivalen whereas there are lesser Toyotas in Japan for the same Lexus platforms. E.g. Lexus SC was the upscale version of the Toyota Soarer (for at least some model years); Lexus GS and Toyota Crown share a platform.

Another point to consider is that some Acuras and some Lexuses (Lexi? lol) aren't really anything more than a slightly higher appointed version of the lesser car it started as. So no I woudn't consider the CSX or the TSX all that much of luxury cars, but I wouldn't consider the ES much of one either. I.e. The entry level models for these brands are more just brand engineering to get people to buy nearly the same cars perhaps just for the luxury brand name. Not saying there aren't any benefits to buying the luxury branded version of the platform (there are) but I'm just saying there's a reason there are entry level models). When I say the ES isn't really all that much a luxury car I understand it's still under a luxury marque, but I'm just saying personally I don't really consider it much more than what I said--a glorified Camry. Which is the same as what I consider a CSX--a glorified Civic. (However I'd probably rather buy a CSX than a Civic, whereas I'd probably rather a Camry to the ES.)

The TSX (which is really a Euro Accord as we all know) is at least interesting, which is more than I'd say for the ES. Additionally, I would probably say the TL is more separated from the standard Accord than the ES is from the Camry. Again, the ES does not somehow trump the entire Acura lineup just because it's a Lexus and just because Lexus exists in Japan.

[ES_Revenge]

Yes, "put on a VIP body kit". Body kits are always good. :lol:

The "rebadged Toyota" meme is stupid. People are confusing it with the Badge Engineering that GM/Ford does. Yes, they are sold as Toyotas in other markets, but they are distinct models and platforms. Other than the ES and RX, ... no Lexus car shares any commonality with any other Toyota platform that sells in the same market.
Give over! LOL :lol:

Perhaps not here but in Japan, as I mentioned, Toyota versions do exist.

Lexus SC = Toyota Soarer
Lexus GS = Toyota Crown
Lexus LS = Toyota Crown/Celsior

So what you're saying is that these cars aren't badge engineered just because only the Lexus is sold in NA? So then if GM only sells the Cadillac BLS in but not the Aura/G6/Malibu, it's [i]not badge engineering, but in NA where they sell the Aura/G6/Malibu (but not the BLS, yet anway) it is badge engineering?

Say what now? :confused:

Anyway if we go by that rather twisted logic, that would mean Lexus is badge engineering in Japan, but not here?

The fact is it's all badge engineering to some degree. Some to more of a degree than others. As I said the lower-end/entry models on the luxury brand lists are more engineered than feature significant differences/changes. However as you go up the scale it seems the differences become much more prominent. Who in their right mind would pass of an RL as an "engineered" Accord, for example. It's on a related platform but it's definitely no Accord.

Ironically, the vast majority of people who spout the "rebadged Toyota" BS are just people who have driven domestics all their lives, and are use to GM putting a Caddy badge on a Chevy without changing anything else and selling it for 4x the price, so they just assume that other companies must do the same. :lol:
Again, give over! It's not about what people have driven all their lives (in fact that one came right out of left field no?); rather it's about almost all of these cars having a non-luxury-brand counterpart regardless of whether they are import or domestic. (Again I'm not sure why you chose the route of saying domestics are mainly badge engineered, whereas the RFD-God-that-is-Toyota is somehow way above that :rolleyes: )

[KawaiiTentacleBeast]

You just lost all the credibility that you had in the previous paragraph. Caddilacs are engineered differently.

Caddy is doing a lot better now, in case you didn't notice, and I'm a big fan of GM in any case. Refer back a few years, The Cimmaron was a basically a Cadillac CAVALIER, FFS.

Lexus SC = Toyota Soarer
Lexus GS = Toyota Crown
Lexus LS = Toyota Crown/Celsior

Actually GS == Aristo. There is no North American equivilant to the Crown. There would be no market for it anyway, since in Japan (and HK and Singapore) the Crown is serves the same role as the Crown Vic/Grand Marquis in North America - taxis and cop cars. In any case, Since Toyota introduced Lexus in Japan none of those even work any more.

The point is that almost all the Lexus cars are distinct models that are marketed as luxury vehicles. The IS/GS/LS share almost NOTHING with the Corolla/Camry/Avalon, they don't even sell the Avalon outside of NA I believe. This is different from what GM/Ford does: The Ford Fusion, Mercury Milan and Lincoln MKZ are almost exactly the same cars, all based on the FWD Mazda6.

So if I bought a GS what are you going to say? That's it's "Just a rebadged Toyota Aristo"? That means nothing to anyone in North America, and nothing to anyone in Japan because in Japan, a Toyota Aristo IS a luxury car, and everyone would agree Lexus is a luxury marque. If you bought a Buick Regal, well, it's just a rebadged Chevy Lumina, isn't it? So does Buick have any real claim to being a "Luxury" brand? Does anyone on the street today think Buick == Luxury?

Toyota did it right, GM/Ford didn't. That's why they're where they are now.

Look at how GM markets itself in China. 3 brands - Chevy sells nothing but small Daewoo cars and commercial cars, Buick has one entry level near-luxury FWD Sedan, still a W-Body but much better than the one they have here (Ask VivienM) and the RWD Zeta based Park Avenue, and Caddy has a flagship SLS on the LWB Sigma platform , with small numbers of CTS, Corvette, etc. Everything has a place and nothing competes with anything else. In China Buick is a luxury brand, competes with Lexus, and so far is WINNING, Does anyone here think Buick is much more than a rebadged Chevy?

[VivienM]

Caddy is doing a lot better now, in case you didn't notice, and I'm a big fan of GM in any case. Refer back a few years, The Cimmaron was a basically a Cadillac CAVALIER, FFS.

A FEW years? The Cimarron died in MY1988. One of MANY mistakes made in the Roger Smith era. That man's reign of destruction ended long ago, though the consequences are still felt today...

If you want to talk about rebadged Cadillacs, talk about the GMT-800 Escalades. Unfortunately, those seemed to sell as well as, if not better, the "uniquely engineered" Sigmas. Domestic car buyers are difficult to understand sometimes.

[VivienM]

Does anyone here think Buick is much more than a rebadged Chevy?

Where's the Chevy G-body car? or the Chevy Lambda?

The Buick W body car has totally different powertrain options from the Chevy W body car, not to mention a very different equipment list (look for the auto climate control in the Chevy. Good luck.).

Accusing Buick of being a "rebadged" Pontiac might have some credibility... or would have had until the death of the Bonneville and the rebranding of the Pontiac Lambda into a GMC.

[KawaiiTentacleBeast]

If you want to talk about rebadged Cadillacs, talk about the GMT-800 Escalades. Unfortunately, those seemed to sell as well as, if not better, the "uniquely engineered" Sigmas. Domestic car buyers are difficult to understand sometimes.

Eh, I guess there's only so many ways to make a body on frame truck. All the other major truck makers including Toyota does the same thing.

Where's the Chevy G-body car? or the Chevy Lambda?

The Buick W body car has totally different powertrain options from the Chevy W body car, not to mention a very different equipment list (look for the auto climate control in the Chevy. Good luck.).



Totally different? They're all either transverse FWD 3800 pushrod V6 or LS4 are they not? What's the drivetrain difference between the old Regal/Impala/Grand Prix/Intrigue?


Accusing Buick of being a "rebadged" Pontiac might have some credibility... or would have had until the death of the Bonneville and the rebranding of the Pontiac Lambda into a GMC.

Sure, Pontiac or Chevy, or Oldsmobile, was Olds suppose to be some kind of Luxury brand? Who knows or cares? I bet no one who isn't a serious GM afficiando would.

Anyway, i don't really want to go on splitting hairs about which GM 3800 FWD sedan is a rebadge of which other 3800 FWD sedan, but MOST of the Lexus lineup has nothing to do with the NA Toyota lineup, so calling Lexus a rebadged Toyota is kind of silly.

[VivienM]

Totally different? They're all either transverse FWD 3800 pushrod V6 or LS4 are they not? What's the drivetrain difference between the old Regal/Impala/Grand Prix/Intrigue?

I was talking the current lineup.

Impala - 3.5/3.9/5.3
LaCrosse/Allure - 3.8/3.6 (until that "Super" variant with the 5.3 LS4 shows up)

The good ol' 3800 is only used in three models nowadays... and two of those are Buicks.

[romsan04]

Give over! LOL :lol:

Perhaps not here but in Japan, as I mentioned, Toyota versions do exist.

Lexus SC = Toyota Soarer
Lexus GS = Toyota Crown
Lexus LS = Toyota Crown/Celsior

So what you're saying is that these cars aren't badge engineered just because only the Lexus is sold in NA? So then if GM only sells the Cadillac BLS in but not the Aura/G6/Malibu, it's [i]not badge engineering, but in NA where they sell the Aura/G6/Malibu (but not the BLS, yet anway) it is badge engineering?

Say what now? :confused:

Anyway if we go by that rather twisted logic, that would mean Lexus is badge engineering in Japan, but not here?

The fact is it's all badge engineering to some degree. Some to more of a degree than others. As I said the lower-end/entry models on the luxury brand lists are more engineered than feature significant differences/changes. However as you go up the scale it seems the differences become much more prominent. Who in their right mind would pass of an RL as an "engineered" Accord, for example. It's on a related platform but it's definitely no Accord.


Again, give over! It's not about what people have driven all their lives (in fact that one came right out of left field no?); rather it's about almost all of these cars having a non-luxury-brand counterpart regardless of whether they are import or domestic. (Again I'm not sure why you chose the route of saying domestics are mainly badge engineered, whereas the RFD-God-that-is-Toyota is somehow way above that :rolleyes: )

My point against Acura is that Honda sell them as luxury brand in NA, while in europe they dont even have ugly north american honda accord, Acura TSX = Honda Accord in Europe.

Now you tell me why are we paying premium here for Acura badge, but in Europe they dont???

[VivienM]

My point against Acura is that Honda sell them as luxury brand in NA, while in europe they dont even have ugly north american honda accord, Acura TSX = Honda Accord in Europe.

Now you tell me why are we paying premium here for Acura badge, but in Europe they dont???

Have you actually compared the European prices? Given how big the TSX is by European standards, it wouldn't surprise me if it (branded as a Honda Accord) cost as much as the TSX here...

[Narci]

Have you actually compared the European prices? Given how big the TSX is by European standards, it wouldn't surprise me if it (branded as a Honda Accord) cost as much as the TSX here...

Actually cost more in Europe.

The equivalent TSX in UK is the Accord Saloon 2.4 V-TEC which comes in 2 flavours:

(MSRP Prices)
Type-S = 20,027 GBP = 42,439.72 CAD (Extra $$$ if you want any color other then red)
EX = 21,127 GBP = $44,897.77 CAD (Extra $$$ if you want any color other then red)


This is before taxes.

(MSRP Prices)
The NA TSX comes in 1 flavour = $37,400 CAD



Obviously the big option on both cars is the navi system.

Actually, Honda plans to launched the Acura brand name in Japan in late 2008. I believe they have them in China Already but only sell the North American TL for now.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/news.cfm/newsID/2051215.001/country/jcf/acura/honda-launches-acura-brand-in-japan

[bobbings]

how do you guys measure what a luxury car is? an acura to me is pretty luxurious if you're talking about an RL or an MDX.

[Asad_A203]

Cadillac DOES do rebadging but it is very limited; they typically stay away from touching Chevorlet/Ponitac platforms and if they must rebadge look at German GM built cars such as Opel. Opelhas been the base for a few Cadillacs, and is the reason we saw the transformation of Caddy from a POS buick to an actual luxury car beginning at the turn of the century; -> made their first RWD drive car (catera) based off an Opel Model. Thereafter, every Caddy has been RWD or AWD. Most automakers only rebadge for their entry level cars which is the case for Caddy too.

[Asad_A203]

how do you guys measure what a luxury car is? an acura to me is pretty luxurious if you're talking about an RL or an MDX.

Most people measure luxury by brand; Lexus, Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar,etc. The car can be complete crap (ie. 1995 Mercedes 230) and inferior to every car on the road; but unless that mercedes symbol falls off it will be considered a luxury car.

I personally like Acura/Infiniti, both are new contenders and make a more fun to drive car (exception of BMW) than the competitiors for thousands less. Acura has a very nice interior that can compare along the ranks of BMW/Audi, while Infiniti has made a very appealing car with a strong engine. In fact, if Acura didn't have that whole mess in 1993 with the Legend (one of the top selling luxury cars of the time); they would be in the ranks of Lexus.

Every Acura i have spotted/been in besides the Integra, has been extremely well appointed. The TSX is usually compared to the BMW 3 series, and many say its alot of fun to drive. The TL/RL/RDX/MDX interior is beautiful; and remain a bench mark in the industry. Noise isolation might be an issue.

[Badman]

I personally like Acura/Infiniti, both are new contenders and make a more fun to drive car (exception of BMW) than the competitiors for thousands less. Acura has a very nice interior that can compare along the ranks of BMW/Audi, while Infiniti has made a very appealing car with a strong engine. In fact, if Acura didn't have that whole mess in 1993 with the Legend (one of the top selling luxury cars of the time); they would be in the ranks of Lexus.



What was the whole mess with the legend? I thought it did good for acura

[ES_Revenge]

My point against Acura is that Honda sell them as luxury brand in NA, while in europe they dont even have ugly north american honda accord, Acura TSX = Honda Accord in Europe.

Now you tell me why are we paying premium here for Acura badge, but in Europe they dont???
I already said TSX = Euro Accord, didnt' I? And as others have pointed out Europe isn't necessarily cheaper.

Also the TSX exists in Japan (it's actually called the "Euro Accord" there, whereas the regular Accord is more akin to our Accord), so I fail to see the point any way you put it. I'm sure in Japan the Accord and Euro Accord must have some difference in price, no?

Just because this car is what is known as the Accord in Europe and the Euro Accord in Japan doesn't mean that TSX (as it's called here) doesn't have it's differences/benefits over the regular Accord. For one thing that engine doesn't come in the regular Accord (not that I'm really a fan of it but in the Accord you either get a lower-powered I4 or a V6, the TSX engine is exclusive to the TSX). Plus Acura dealerships and "owner expereince" is slightly different than Honda dealership experience--they treat you a little better at Acura, for instance. Not saying any of that really makes it a big deal (I don't think it is) but I'm just saying there are differences.

Personally I don't think there is anything wrong with uplevel rebrands overall, it's just that I think people should be able to recognise the more meaningful models v. the more engineered models.

People should stop thinking about how it is in Japan or other countries and just focus on the car at hand. For example is the CSX really "luxury"? Of course not. Does that mean that no one should buy one instead of a Civic? Again of course not--there's plenty of reasons to buy a CSX.

[Caillo]

And there's the thread, folks.

fake edit:
Revenge: http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5324760&postcount=155

In all seriousness, this line of yours is getting REALLY old.

[Narci]

It's funny.

JDM Accord/EDM Accord has the USDM TSX interior and vice versa.

ES is right, engines is what distinguishes the model line up more then features.

And like he said, there is a difference between a new model and re-engineering a model. Both has it's pros and cons.

I personally don't think there's anything wrong with re-egineering. It just depends on how it's achieved.

As always, why care, if you like the car, the way it drives, it, feels, it fits the budget and makes you happy...then that's the car you should get. If not, everyone should be driving an Aztec (heheh j/k)

[romsan04]

I already said TSX = Euro Accord, didnt' I? And as others have pointed out Europe isn't necessarily cheaper.

Also the TSX exists in Japan (it's actually called the "Euro Accord" there, whereas the regular Accord is more akin to our Accord), so I fail to see the point any way you put it. I'm sure in Japan the Accord and Euro Accord must have some difference in price, no?

Just because this car is what is known as the Accord in Europe and the Euro Accord in Japan doesn't mean that TSX (as it's called here) doesn't have it's differences/benefits over the regular Accord. For one thing that engine doesn't come in the regular Accord (not that I'm really a fan of it but in the Accord you either get a lower-powered I4 or a V6, the TSX engine is exclusive to the TSX). Plus Acura dealerships and "owner expereince" is slightly different than Honda dealership experience--they treat you a little better at Acura, for instance. Not saying any of that really makes it a big deal (I don't think it is) but I'm just saying there are differences.

Personally I don't think there is anything wrong with uplevel rebrands overall, it's just that I think people should be able to recognise the more meaningful models v. the more engineered models.

People should stop thinking about how it is in Japan or other countries and just focus on the car at hand. For example is the CSX really "luxury"? Of course not. Does that mean that no one should buy one instead of a Civic? Again of course not--there's plenty of reasons to buy a CSX.

Well I don't like how NA Accord looks like it's plain and ugly, while TSX (Euro Accord) is very nice. Do you see my point?? Don't sell me crap, I want nice cars. Just feels like NA car market is for ugly models, because in Europe
NA Accord would rust in dealership lots.

[romsan04]

My friend works as car audio/video installer, and he have seen it all.

Acura = Honda, build/quality/parts everything is the same, just because you put leather inside does not equal luxury.

While Lexus is on different level from Toyota, better build quality, better parts, better insulation e.t.c (yes Lexus and Toyota share parts between them), so you can actually feel the luxury not just semi-luxury like Acura.

That was my friend comments and I do believe him, because he gets to work on different cars, not just somebody who heard or read somewhere.

Acura does make some nice cars MDX, RSX, Integras and TSX, but then you look inside there are not that many "premium" parts or quality put into them. I would rather call them Honda MDX, Honda TSX e.t.c.

[Asad_A203]

What was the whole mess with the legend? I thought it did good for acura

The legend was an excellent car, this was one of the best sellers for Acura. What happened to it, is what caused Acura to lose most of its credibility; killing the Legend in favor of the flagship Acura everyone knows and loves; (sarcastic) Acura RL. The Acura RL was everything the legend was designed to oppose. The Acura RL is gaining more respect but i would still favor a BMW 5 any day than a Acura RL; they need to make a version with the new Acura NSX engine (V10) and designed to look better than the Acura TL. If they would do that, I am positive some people would choose it (priced well) in comparision to an M5, in addition to jumping to a V8 engine, someone who has 70k to burn doesn't care if the car is a V6 or V8.

[Asad_A203]

My friend works as car audio/video installer, and he have seen it all.

Acura = Honda, build/quality/parts everything is the same, just because you put leather inside does not equal luxury.

While Lexus is on different level from Toyota, better build quality, better parts, better insulation e.t.c (yes Lexus and Toyota share parts between them), so you can actually feel the luxury not just semi-luxury like Acura.

That was my friend comments and I do believe him, because he gets to work on different cars, not just somebody who heard or read somewhere.

Acura does make some nice cars MDX, RSX, Integras and TSX, but then you look inside there are not that many "premium" parts or quality put into them. I would rather call them Honda MDX, Honda TSX e.t.c.


Wow, have you actually sat in a Honda Accord EX then sit in an Acura TL? Both cars have leather interior but trust me, they do not feel like the same interior (even though the Honda Accord is very well equiped also). Materials in Acura are top notch, on class with BMW & Lexus. Honda MDX? Are you kidding me?

http://news.windingroad.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/2007-acura-mdx-interior.jpg

This has a better interior than a frickin BMW X5.0 interior, this is as much premium that anyone needs. Sure Honda probably has a model to make it in Japan, but for sake of argument, this is luxury at the best.

Who (creditable sources ie. Automotive editors) ever criticize Acura on materials? No one i ever read does, the two areas Acura gets burned on are:
1. FWD
2. Lack of torque

Obviously pictures say a million word:
Honda Accord EX:
http://z.about.com/d/cars/1/7/9/W/hn_07accordex_int.jpg

Acura TL:
http://cars.blogs.ca/images/Acura_TL_Type_S_3.jpg

And just for the sake of it, lets see how the "lovely" Lexus ES330:
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/03/13/000390.4-lg.jpg

Toyota Camry:
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/9/web/2361000-2361999/2361753_50.jpg

They do not only put leather in the interior, all Hondas (except Fit & CDN Civic) have an option to have a leather interior. Acuras come with preforiated (know i spelled that wrong, haha) leather seating, premium audio systems that rank as some of the worlds best audio systems, more HP & Torque from similar Honda engines. Toyota uses better insulation in Lexus? That isn't true, Lexus are solid quiet but they refer to the LS prior to current models. All Toyotas now are just as quiet as their Lexus counterpart since they are all the same car. Lexus have better audio systems but so do all Acuras. And if you actually own a Lexus, every part labelled in the car says Toyota NOT Lexus. Lexus is solely built in Japan, so don't even think their are any parts labelled Lexus, all can be replaced by a toyota part. Better build quality? Every issue present in the Lexus should be present in the Toyota Counterpart. You can go to any Toyota dealership and they will be able to work on your Lexus, absolutely nothing that would cause an issue. Just face the facts; Lexus is as much Toyota as much as Acura is Honda.

In conlusion; your argument is flawed. Lexus is as much Toyota as Acura is as much Honda. Both have same parts but are more extensively tuned, better interior, and filled with top notch accessories.

[Asad_A203]

Well I don't like how NA Accord looks like it's plain and ugly, while TSX (Euro Accord) is very nice. Do you see my point?? Don't sell me crap, I want nice cars. Just feels like NA car market is for ugly models, because in Europe
NA Accord would rust in dealership lots.

Than fork out the cash for the Acura TSX. The Euro Accord is premium in Japan also, so expect to pay just as much as a NA Accord. When you also have a fully loaded Accord, you are 36k, fork out the 3k more for the Euro edition (if you like the 4 banger so much).

[intls]

Updated!!

There are no Full Service Records for this car!! CarFax and used car pack. from MOT showed car has registered in Québec but owner has proof me a poof of purchase and some service records (97-98 &2000-2007) from Scar. Lexus Toyota and I have called to verify if they are true.
Car fax has showed the owner of the car has been changed in 2000 but used car package does not. CF showed inconsistent Mileage but the service records show OK.
I have no idea how accurate the CF is.
Car is in Mint Condition. Someone suggest me to run a compression test to check how health is the engine is.
What do you think? Need advice!! Thanks

[Narci]

Updated!!

There are no Full Service Records for this car!! CarFax and used car pack. from MOT showed car has registered in Québec but owner has proof me a poof of purchase and some service records (97-98 &2000-2007) from Scar. Lexus Toyota and I have called to verify if they are true.
Car fax has showed the owner of the car has been changed in 2000 but used car package does not. CF showed inconsistent Mileage but the service records show OK.
I have no idea how accurate the CF is.
Car is in Mint Condition. Someone suggest me to run a compression test to check how health is the engine is.
What do you think? Need advice!! Thanks


If it came from Quebec, that's your first warning sign. I'm not exactly sure how the process works, maybe someone can elaborate, but essentially they roll back KM's in quebec and re-register the car in Ontario witht he new and improved mileage.

[intls]

The car sold w/. only 15km form the dealer. The offer page shown new car but the Proof of purchase showed used in those mileage???
I have called to the dealer that the owner bought it from. They said it could be the dealer trade which may be registered a new car to meet the quota for the bonus form Toyota canada

[romsan04]

The car sold w/. only 15km form the dealer. The offer page shown new car but the Proof of purchase showed used in those mileage???
I have called to the dealer that the owner bought it from. They said it could be the dealer trade which may be registered a new car to meet the quota for the bonus form Toyota canada

Most people don't want to deal with or buy Quebec cars since you don't know and cannot check if millage is original or not.

Why there are no service records form 1999??? What happened to the car that year????

[Narci]

Most people don't want to deal with or buy Quebec cars since you don't know and cannot check if millage is original or not.

Why there are no service records form 1999??? What happened to the car that year????

Maybe 1999 was the year they rolled back the odometer?