all you MBA's (and aspirants) out there

[torontonian123456]

I know getting into to Ivey MBA is hard (only 65 spots).....my question to you MBA's out there is :

what does it take to get into Ivey ?
does it even matter (Ivey is as good as York ?)
is it really worth it ? pre MBA salary vs Post MBA salary

Thanks for your comments

[controlyar]

A well recognized undergrad degree definitely helps with a solid GPA (>3.3).
Example. Lakehead, Ryerson, Brock just do not cut it for the tier 1 MBA schools unless you have an incredible GPA, tremendous experience, and a solid GMAT.

Is it worth it? It depends on YOU and what you make of it. Just because you have an MBA from xxx school does not mean you earn 6 figures immediately (unless its Wharton :lol: ). In addition, you made no mention of your career interests. Various MBA programs cater to different individuals and certain schools are better than others for specific programs.

[torontonian123456]

A well recognized undergrad degree definitely helps with a solid GPA (>3.3).
Example. Lakehead, Ryerson, Brock just do not cut it for the tier 1 MBA schools unless you have an incredible GPA, tremendous experience, and a solid GMAT.

Is it worth it? It depends on YOU and what you make of it. Just because you have an MBA from xxx school does not mean you earn 6 figures immediately (unless its Wharton :lol: ). In addition, you made no mention of your career interests. Various MBA programs cater to different individuals and certain schools are better than others for specific programs.

thanks for the feed back.... I am considering Management consulting / finance. Do you have an MBA ?

[commie]

thanks for the feed back.... I am considering Management consulting / finance. Do you have an MBA ?

You and just about everyone else in your class will have that career goal. ;)

What are you currently doing, and what was your undergrad background?

[JC69]

Just out of interest....if I wanted to consult a management consultant for something I would be hoping to acquire the services of someone with quite a bit of experience rather than someone with a bit of paper in a frame on the wall. Seems this experience part is lacking these days in favour of a quick approach via instant MBA's.

[commie]

Just out of interest....if I wanted to consult a management consultant for something I would be hoping to acquire the services of someone with quite a bit of experience rather than someone with a bit of paper in a frame on the wall. Seems this experience part is lacking these days in favour of a quick approach via instant MBA's.

Depends on what type of consulting service you required. If your requirement is something specialized then yes you would want someone with years and years of experience..

But what most of these MBA type 'consulting' hires are put into is strategy/process work...Where the client is paying more for the methodology of the consulting firm, and not so necessary the consultant itself. Hence, the consulting firm's requirements, of students with high GPA, well-balanced personality, and high aptitude...They expect to be able to train this new hire in 2-3 months, their methodology in process re-engineering, developing strategies, and process mappings. Someone with high aptitude will be able to pick up the material quickly, and apply it to their clients.

Stuff like, going through with the client's value chain, examining their Porter's five forces, etc....Basically anyone can do, as long as they are confident and a polished communicator and facilitator. Then with a few more years of experience, the consultant will gain more indepth industry experience, and will be able to handle other forms of consulting/sales work.

[will1087]

what does it take to get into Ivey ?

Depends on your situation. There are people of all walks of life in MBA programs. Some doing their MBAs right after undergrad, some after a bit of work experience (normally ~2 years).

Good undergraduate grades, work experience (internships and postgrad employment), and extracurricular activities are all important.

Off the top of my head, Ivey recommends a GMAT score of 620 (from their website) and a good undergrad GPA.

However, Ivey (like many other MBA programs) accepts students that have no business background but, rather, excellent life-experiences (such as work, etc.). They even accept applicants who have no undergraduate degree. Rest assured, however, you need to have done something considerably special to be accepted under those circumstances.

does it even matter (Ivey is as good as York ?)

Yes and no. Where you get the piece of paper will never be completely representative of a student's individual capabilities. That said - generally speaking - the network of alumni will usually be better at top institutions. In addition, top companies will only choose to recruit from top programs.

Ivey's MBA is better than York's. That said, Queens' MBA program is the best MBA program outside the US (with Ivey coming second and York coming ninth). http://www.businessweek.com/bschools/06/full_time.htm (source = businessweek)

is it really worth it ? pre MBA salary vs Post MBA salary

Very industry dependent. For consulting firms, an MBA is strongly recommended (see: BCG, McKinsey). Others, maybe not so much. Sometimes your employer will pay for your MBA.

Cheers,

Will

[will1087]

Just out of interest....if I wanted to consult a management consultant for something I would be hoping to acquire the services of someone with quite a bit of experience rather than someone with a bit of paper in a frame on the wall. Seems this experience part is lacking these days in favour of a quick approach via instant MBA's.

To add to commie's points: you'll be hard-pressed to find an MBA without previous work experience - especially in the field of consulting.

[PennyArcade]

There are many rankings out there and a lot of them have different schools ranked top. It is safe to say that York, Ivey, Rotman and Queens can be considered tier 1 of canadian schools.

[commie]

There are many rankings out there and a lot of them have different schools ranked top. It is safe to say that York, Ivey, Rotman and Queens can be considered tier 1 of canadian schools.

good point...something students need to remember from time to time...
Every school will be able to reference some magazine ranking that has them on top....
There is no one ranking that is purely objective...One school might be #1 in your area of focus, might not be #1 for someone else....and vice versa...

[YnD]

I know getting into to Ivey MBA is hard (only 65 spots).....my question to you MBA's out there is :

what does it take to get into Ivey ?
does it even matter (Ivey is as good as York ?)
is it really worth it ? pre MBA salary vs Post MBA salary

Thanks for your comments

Ivey, York etc...the top tier MBA schools....yes are tougher to get into.....either a very high GPA or usually 2 years of solid exp with a high GPA.

But other schools have MBA programs too that are not as recognized as Ivey/York but have similiar requirements and education but may not be as tough in the selection process... If your serious about pursuing an MBA and cannot make it into Ivey/York...don't just quit on it... research into an alternative like McMaster/UofT Rotman/Ryerson as a backup etc...

[ckang008]

Anyone know if American universities take a look a GPA as importantly as Canadian universities? I recently finished my undergrad but my marks are not too good (overall 2.3) and I will like to know if stellar work experiences and GMAT can make up for the loss. I know I haven't put my best effort in uni but I don't know if there's a point applying if they reject me by just one look of my GPA

Thanks

[anom]

If your serious about pursuing an MBA and cannot make it into Ivey/York...don't just quit on it... research into an alternative like McMaster/UofT Rotman/Ryerson as a backup etc...

FYI, Ivey, Schulich, Queens and Rotman are all considered "top" MBA schools in Canada (as stated above by others). And it is highly debatable which school(s) is actually the best. Each have their stronger and weaker areas.

[bummermann]

York is a good school but not sure if I would consider york as a top Canadian business school.

I would say Queen's / Ivey / Rotman. then York.

[controlyar]

Ivey, York etc...the top tier MBA schools....yes are tougher to get into.....either a very high GPA or usually 2 years of solid exp with a high GPA.

But other schools have MBA programs too that are not as recognized as Ivey/York but have similiar requirements and education but may not be as tough in the selection process... If your serious about pursuing an MBA and cannot make it into Ivey/York...don't just quit on it... research into an alternative like McMaster/UofT Rotman/Ryerson as a backup etc...

I find it amusing how you did not include Rotman in your top schools.
Rotman is the BEST overall MBA program in Canada and among one the best in the world. The only credible sources I consider for MBA rankings at Financial Times and Businesss Week. The 2007 rankings were just released and Rotman was ranked #1 in Canada and top 20 in the world. Schulich's program has dropped dramatically. I read an article regarding the drop (cannot find it), and it demonstrated that Schulich does not attract the top talent and the overall quality of education is diminishing at an increasing rate versus other Bschools.

Post sources next time instead of personal opinions. That is spreading false information.

http://media.ft.com/cms/9753d360-a6ee-11db-83e4-0000779e2340.pdf

[torontonian123456]

I find it amusing how you did not include Rotman in your top schools.
Rotman is the BEST overall MBA program in Canada and among one the best in the world. The only credible sources I consider for MBA rankings at Financial Times and Businesss Week. The 2007 rankings were just released and Rotman was ranked #1 in Canada and top 20 in the world. Schulich's program has dropped dramatically. I read an article regarding the drop (cannot find it), and it demonstrated that Schulich does not attract the top talent and the overall quality of education is diminishing at an increasing rate versus other Bschools.

Post sources next time instead of personal opinions. That is spreading false information.

http://media.ft.com/cms/9753d360-a6ee-11db-83e4-0000779e2340.pdf


thanks for your comments chief....

I have been doing some research on MBA programs for almost a year now, and i have come to a conclusion that for Canada, Ivey is absolutely number one, hands down. One in four of its grads hold titles : president, GM, CEO etc. There is a network that is highly lucrative, and thus getting that list is going to be tough without going through the ranks of the school they went to. In real life, no problem comes in silos (ie. hi i am a problem, please open your finance book and solve me) you need to analyze the problem holistically (i.e the case based method - which only ivey has in canada). In my opinion this program makes you think about the problem, as opposed to solving equations ( i have solved many equations in engineering, i dont need to do that all over again, to realize those rudimentary excercises wont be used in the real world....


my two cents..... (thanks for all postings.... POST ON !!)

[torontonian123456]

also ... as for rankings..... i have stoppe relying on them.... YORK is not ivey league !!! (my opinion folks, dont hate)

[will1087]

honestly, they are all great...

it really depends on the person.

[personal experience]
american companies have no clue what schools are like in Canada and, to them, all of them are second tier to wharton, sloan, hbs, etc. All they know is that someone (school recruiters) sent you to NY for an interview.

if you pull out a businessweek/ft ranking of a canadian uni, they will laugh at you. :lol:
[/personal experience]

[codex]

I really tried to resist responding to this thread as I know that this is the sort of topic that never really goes anywhere... however, I can't resist passing along what I have learned from the business world about this topic...

Specifically, I want to mention Schulich, Rotman, and Ivey--which are often labeled as the 'top' MBA school in Canada... In reality, is it IMPOSSIBLE to say which is 'best' without some sort of background as to why the student is doing an MBA in the first place. If you're entering an MBA program just because you want 'a better job' then you're going for the wrong reason. You need to have a good understanding of why you are entering an MBA program in the first place, what an MBA can do for you, and where you want to be after graduation (and 5, 10-years after graduation for that matter).

IMO (based on what executives, managers, etc. have told me), in general, the top schools would be as follows:

- Rotman is the top MBA program in Canada if you want to enter the FINANCIAL field. The education could play a part in this, but it is also largely because of the recruiting. There are many large international banks and financial instutitions that recruit at Rotman but DO NOT recruit at other Canadian schools--this cannot be said about any of the other MBA schools. The recruitment is much of the reason why many financial-types do an MBA in the first place. If you go to another school you may be sorely disappointed with your options upon graduation.

- Ivey is the top MBA program in Canada if you want to enter MANAGEMENT. As a previous poster mentioned, this is demonstrated by the number of graduates holding high titles and is a possibly result a result of the networking opportunities that the degree entitles you to.

- Schulich does not have a very good reputation in the business world despite what the marketing tells you and despite what *some* of the rankings say. My interpretation of the discrepancy here is that Schulich was not previously well known or respsected, but in recent years has worked towards building their reputation. Unfortunately, those 'older' people in business (those currently doing the hiring, etc.) only remember the 'old' Schulich. The new Schulich still has not proven themselves despite their efforts.

As I mentioned, this is all based on my interpretation of these schools based on my own research, and also largely based on my conversations and discussions with managers and executives who I have worked with or know personally.

[Sylvestre]

oh man, a discussion on which school is "#1".

How novel :lol:

[controlyar]

oh man, a discussion on which school is "#1".

How novel :lol:

C'mon, you are an engineer. I am sure you enjoy analyzing matters.
Jump in! :lol:

[will1087]

- Rotman is the top MBA program in Canada if you want to enter the FINANCIAL field. The education could play a part in this, but it is also largely because of the recruiting. There are many large international banks and financial instutitions that recruit at Rotman but DO NOT recruit at other Canadian schools--this cannot be said about any of the other MBA schools. The recruitment is much of the reason why many financial-types do an MBA in the first place. If you go to another school you may be sorely disappointed with your options upon graduation.

This part is completely untrue - name one company that hires exclusively at Rotman.

Huge iBanks hire at Queens and Ivey as well and, from my personal experience, hire more from those institutions than Rotman.

From this (http://www.rotman.utoronto.ca/career/stats.pdf) link (warning pdf), Rotman's MBA churned out an underwhelming 3 graduates going to Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan, and Goldman Sachs.

These companies also hire at Queens and Ivey and, from my personal experience, hire a lot more than 3.




Edit: Its not like this information is secret... why dont people look it up before posting false information?

[torontonian123456]

oh man, a discussion on which school is "#1".

How novel :lol:

I was waiting for this guy !!

[codex]

This part is completely untrue - name one company that hires exclusively at Rotman.

Huge iBanks hire at Queens and Ivey as well and, from my personal experience, hire more from those institutions than Rotman.

From http://www.rotman.utoronto.ca/career/stats.pdf (this) link (warning pdf), Rotman's MBA churned out an underwhelming 3 graduates going to Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan, and Goldman Sachs.

These companies also hire at Queens and Ivey and, from my personal experience, hire a lot more than 3.

Edit: Its not like this information is secret... why dont people look it up before posting false information?

Just to clarify I said that many financial institutions (as in some, not all) only recruit at Rotman (don't ask me to name specific firms... this is just what I've been told). Sorry if that wasn't clear. I certainly admit that I may be wrong--my comments aren't based on documented facts but rather what financial professionals I respect have told me. This is enough for me to go by as these are the exact people who would be hiring me if I decided to do an MBA.

I also see in the PDF you posted that 43% of employed Rotman graduates in 2006 work for Financial Services firms. That seems to be in line with what I expect... that many Rotman graduates end up in finance. I have no clue what the rate is at other schools and quite honestly don't care enough to look it up.

Of course the top firms you mentioned are VERY competitive. To be honest, if your plan is to work for them you should probably be doing your MBA at a top US school.

Anyway, I didn't come here to argue. I already regret saying anything...

[codex]

Abraaj Capital
AIC
Bear Stearns Asia Limited
Blair Franklin Capital Partners
BMO Financial Group (7)
Canaccord Capital Canada
CIBC (13)
Citigroup
Credit Suisse First Boston
Dundee Securities Corporation (2)
Goldman Sachs
Haynes Capital
Infinium Capital Corp.
Manulife Financial (7)
Middlefield Capital Corportion
Morgan Stanley
National Bank Financial (2)
Raymond James Ltd.
RBC Financial Group (9)
Scotiabank (11)
Sky Investment Counsel
Standard Chartered Bank
TD Bank Financial Group (4)
UBS Securities Canada Inc. (4)
Washington Mutual
Westwind Partners Inc.

Specifically, that was an excerpt of the some of the financial firms hiring graduates. Not bad at all if that's the field you want to enter.

Thanks for the reference will1087 :)

[codex]

32% of Ivey graduates in 2006 were hired into the financial sector.

Once again, I'm listing only financial services firms:

Brendan Wood International
KPMG LLP
PricewaterhouseCoopers Taiwan
Connor, Clark & Lunn Financial Group
Fidelity
Investors Group Financial Services
King Street Capital Management, L.L.C.
Mackenzie Financial Corporation
Mawer Investment Management Ltd.
Middlefi eld Capital Corporation
NexGen Financial Limited Partnership
Northwater Capital
Management Inc.
Ontario Teachers Pension Plan Board
Standard & Poor’s
TD Asset Management

Source: http://www.ivey.uwo.ca/recruiting/PDFs/2006MBAPermanentPlacementStats.pdf

[codex]

[Note that I consciously didn't mention Queens in my initial post since since I am less familiar with this school]

31% of Queens graduates in 2006 were hired into the financial sector

The mean salary for Rotman graduates entering finance was 79,000 (range of 50,000–125,000) while the mean salary for Queens was 70,000.

Source: http://business.queensu.ca/student_career_services/docs/2006_MBA_Stats_Summary.pdf

Queens doesn't seem to post a list of firms who successfully recruited graduates; however, they do offer a list of organizations that posted jobs available at: http://business.queensu.ca/student_career_services/docs/OrganizationsHiring_posting2005.pdf

Edit: 'posting jobs' isn't even close to actual recruitment... so it's hard to judge that list. Many firms post everywhere but only actually interview at a subset of those schools--unless someone really knocks their socks off.

[will1087]

Uh...

Maybe you should read the links a little better.

Ivey:

AGF Management Ltd.
Blackmont Capital Inc.
BMO Capital Markets
BMO Harris Private Banking
Canaccord Adams
CIBC World Markets
Citigroup Global Markets Canada
Cowen and Company, L.L.C
Credit Suisse
Desana Capital
Deutsche Bank Securities, Ltd
Dundee Securities Corporation
EdgeStone Capital Partners
Empire Financial Group
Genuity Capital Markets
Goldman Sachs (Asia) L.L.C.
HSBC Bank
HSBC Hong Kong
HSBC Securities (Canada) Inc.
Infi nium Capital
Jefferies & Company, Inc.
JP Morgan
Lazard Corporation
Macquarie Services (Hong Kong) Ltd.
Merrill Lynch Canada Inc.
Morgan Stanley
National Bank Financial
Oasis Management
Holdings LLC
Putnam Lovell NBF Securities
Q1 Capital Partners
RBC Capital Markets
Scotia Capital
Tau Capital Corp.
TD Securities
UBS
UBS Wealth Management
Vartana Wellington West Capital Markets
Westwind Partners Inc.

And as an aside, many of my peers (Queen's Commerce) have been hired by Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, and JP Morgan.

[codex]

Uh...

Maybe you should read the links a little better.

Ivey:



And as an aside, many of my peers (Queen's Commerce) have been hired by Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, and JP Morgan.

The discrepancy was that I posted firms that hired MBA graduates in 2006 whereas you posted which firms recruited.

Anyway, I think we can agree that Queens, Rotman, and Ivey are all very good schools. I don't dispute that. :)

[will1087]

The discrepancy was that I posted firms that hired MBA graduates in 2006 whereas you posted which firms recruited.

Anyway, I think we can agree that Queens, Rotman, and Ivey are all very good schools. I don't dispute that. :)

The ivey list you posted was also a recruiting list.

You failed to mention any of the ibanking forms that recruited. But I agree, all good programs with excellent candidates.

[urban1]

A few of the guys I deal with at my discount brokers have MBAs from most of the above mentioned schools. These gentleman would be considered to be employed in financial services.

Back to the OP. If you barely achieved a 2.0 in undergrad, do you really expect to achieve a 4.0 in any program and command a highly competitive job offer? They may call the bottom graduate out of med school "doctor" but the bottom MBA graduates may be called unemployed.

[codex]

The ivey list you posted was also a recruiting list.

You failed to mention any of the ibanking forms that recruited. But I agree, all good programs with excellent candidates.

Oops... good point, my mistake. I guess Ivey doesn't publish hiring schools either--only those schools that recruited/posted jobs.

A few of the guys I deal with at my discount brokers have MBAs from most of the above mentioned schools. These gentleman would be considered to be employed in financial services.

Also a good point... that's why I also tried to toss in the median/salary ranges in my post. The industry is very competitive and there's certainly many very average jobs out there as well.

[commie]

Just to clarify I said that many financial institutions (as in some, not all) only recruit at Rotman (don't ask me to name specific firms... this is just what I've been told). Sorry if that wasn't clear. I certainly admit that I may be wrong--my comments aren't based on documented facts but rather what financial professionals I respect have told me. This is enough for me to go by as these are the exact people who would be hiring me if I decided to do an MBA.
...

Looks like thats alot of hearsay evidence that you used as facts to based your statements on....
And you are not even certain that they are true...then why bother posting the comments when you are not even sure of the facts?

Quite honesty, Whether its Ivey, Rotman, Schulich, McGill or Queen's, ; they are all very good mba program in Canada....and if you are the top 5% to 10% of your class in any of those school you will stand a good odds of getting recruited by an iBank firm....
It doesn't matter if you are a graduate of Rotman's and you place in the bottom 10% of your class...you will not stand a good chance of even getting an interview....

Also, finance jobs are so widespread that there are mba grads going into some $60,000 BMO type of jobs and they claim to be in the financial industry...very misleading..

What I like to tell the prospective MBA students, is that it really depends on yourself....whichever school you goto, you need to standout amongst your peers...thats important....the school will not guarantee you a job in iBank or Management Consulting...

[Psychopath]

I really tried to resist responding to this thread as I know that this is the sort of topic that never really goes anywhere... however, I can't resist passing along what I have learned from the business world about this topic...

Specifically, I want to mention Schulich, Rotman, and Ivey--which are often labeled as the 'top' MBA school in Canada... In reality, is it IMPOSSIBLE to say which is 'best' without some sort of background as to why the student is doing an MBA in the first place. If you're entering an MBA program just because you want 'a better job' then you're going for the wrong reason. You need to have a good understanding of why you are entering an MBA program in the first place, what an MBA can do for you, and where you want to be after graduation (and 5, 10-years after graduation for that matter).

IMO (based on what executives, managers, etc. have told me), in general, the top schools would be as follows:

- Rotman is the top MBA program in Canada if you want to enter the FINANCIAL field. The education could play a part in this, but it is also largely because of the recruiting. There are many large international banks and financial instutitions that recruit at Rotman but DO NOT recruit at other Canadian schools--this cannot be said about any of the other MBA schools. The recruitment is much of the reason why many financial-types do an MBA in the first place. If you go to another school you may be sorely disappointed with your options upon graduation.

- Ivey is the top MBA program in Canada if you want to enter MANAGEMENT. As a previous poster mentioned, this is demonstrated by the number of graduates holding high titles and is a possibly result a result of the networking opportunities that the degree entitles you to.

- Schulich does not have a very good reputation in the business world despite what the marketing tells you and despite what *some* of the rankings say. My interpretation of the discrepancy here is that Schulich was not previously well known or respsected, but in recent years has worked towards building their reputation. Unfortunately, those 'older' people in business (those currently doing the hiring, etc.) only remember the 'old' Schulich. The new Schulich still has not proven themselves despite their efforts.

As I mentioned, this is all based on my interpretation of these schools based on my own research, and also largely based on my conversations and discussions with managers and executives who I have worked with or know personally.

I honestly could not have said it better myself.

I graduated with an MBA at Rotmans last year (finance) and I did my due diligence in researching what the "Best" MBA program was and there was never a "Best". Each school had its own niche and it was reflective on there approach to teaching the subject.

The question you really have to ask yourself is whats best for you? Are you interested in finance? or upper management? Now based on my personal experience this may help guide you into which school might be the right one for you:

Queens/Ivey
Both Queens and Ivey are without a doubt the better mba schools for executive/management positions. Most of there teachings are based on case studies and alot of group work evolving around projects. The nice thing about Ivey, is that some of the projects that you will be doing are for actual companies and provides alot of real world experience.

Which is better?
Between the two, Queens is the better school. The case studies/projects they make you do are more rigorous and may explain why most of there students have LOTS of industry background and currently hold very high positions. This also explains why Queens does not have a very good recruitment program (due to the fact that most of the students already hold very high positions). Ivey on the other hand, are better options for those who don't have much experience. Ivey has alot of strong ties to industry (and because you'll be doing alot of projects for them) alot of these corporations will come looking for you when your done. So if you have alot of experience and want to move up within your company ranks, executive mba is better. If you don't have much experience and looking for a job afterwards, Ivey is the better option.

Rotmans
Rotmans MBA program deals alot (and this is a HUGE understatement) with numbers. This is why Rotman graduates are better prepared for finance then management. Also, they have alot of recruiters from practically every hedge fund/banking firm you can think of. The recruiters come in to meet with candidates at the program so frequently that it is relatively easy to find a job.

Schulich
Well..... I personally don't know anyone that came out of Schulich and most of the people that did there undergrad at Schulich elected to do there mba's elsewhere so i can't really say whether or not the program is any good or bad.

School REQ's
The requirements again are dependent really on the school you apply to. Like i said earlier, queens has a higher propensity to accept those with alot of experience and those who currently hold high positions over GPA and other things. But the general rule of thumb for all MBA programs is that job experience is the most important (or achievements). Then GMAT scores. Then GPA. GPA's are meaningless because a person taking history with a 4.0 is not equally weighted with someone who got a 3.0 in mathematics..... as long as your in the top 10% within your graduating class, you should do fine.

As for salaries, they do get better with an MBA. But don't let that be your only incentive to get an MBA because you may regret it later.

Hope this helps and good luck!

[bummermann]

The discrepancy was that I posted firms that hired MBA graduates in 2006 whereas you posted which firms recruited.

Anyway, I think we can agree that Queens, Rotman, and Ivey are all very good schools. I don't dispute that. :)

I agree that all these schools are good including York but As for the top 3 in Canada unfortunately I do not include York on the list after what they told me about their admission process.

The best is Canada is debatable among these 3 schools though being Ivey / Rotman / Queens.

[urban1]

The other thing to consider where you want to work. If your outside Ontario, you are likely better off going to a school in the province or city you wish to work in.

[PennyArcade]

I agree that all these schools are good including York but As for the top 3 in Canada unfortunately I do not include York on the list after what they told me about their admission process.

The best is Canada is debatable among these 3 schools though being Ivey / Rotman / Queens.

I wouldn't want to be a guinea pig for Ivey's new 1 year program.

[ukstudent]

With ecommerce changing the way we make money, and with the Internet evolving so quickly, a lot of what you learn in an MBA program is becoming less and less relevant... in my opinion.

For example:

To run an online business, do you REALLy need to know how to perform a Value Chain Analysis? (http://www.coursework4you.co.uk/valuechain.htm)

I think not... unless you're dealing with a system that transforms raw, physical materials into products that are in demand. But that's a limitation.

[jayslay]

Anyone know if American universities take a look a GPA as importantly as Canadian universities? I recently finished my undergrad but my marks are not too good (overall 2.3) and I will like to know if stellar work experiences and GMAT can make up for the loss. I know I haven't put my best effort in uni but I don't know if there's a point applying if they reject me by just one look of my GPA

Thanks

I would also like to know this please, I dont have steller marks but what if my GMAT scores and work experiences are above average?

[TheGoods07]

I would also like to know this please, I dont have steller marks but what if my GMAT scores and work experiences are above average?

It really depends on the school.

[beepbeep]

I would also like to know this please, I dont have steller marks but what if my GMAT scores and work experiences are above average?

ok, lets make this ez. anyone get in with a GPA under 2.5? If so, what school, gmat score, and experience... :lol:

[ketchudj]

I know getting into to Ivey MBA is hard (only 65 spots).....my question to you MBA's out there is :

what does it take to get into Ivey ?
does it even matter (Ivey is as good as York ?)
is it really worth it ? pre MBA salary vs Post MBA salary

Thanks for your comments

Wow guys. Ok first off, rankings mean a little, but look at what top employers want.

1) Ivey
2) Rotman
3) Queens
4) York

Ivey and Rotman are a fair bit above the others.

Secondly, the name of the school only gets you in the door for some companies, you need to interview well and work hard to get anywhere.

Third, business school is about the contacts you make, not as much about the education.

Fourth, choose a school that fits your needs/desires. Ivey is all case-method, so bear that in mind.

Is it worth it?

Depends on what you are doing now and how well you do. Post MBAs start about $70-80,000 for average jobs. Management Consulting and Investment Banking are for the tops of the class at Ivey(US and Canada) or Rotman(Toronto only). Investment Bankers start at 300k+ (US) or 200k+ Canada. Management Consultants can start about $150 (top firms only).

And then it is how well you do. Once you get established, it isn't about the name of your school, but how well you do your job and what contacts you have from school.

For Ivey you need 2 of the following (illustrative i don't have the exact cutoffs):

1) 700 + GMAT
2) 3.7 GPA
3) 5 years excellent work experience

If you don't have those, you need something like:

1) 650 GMAT
2) 3.4 GPA
3) 5 years excellent work experience

and good essays. Then it goes down from there.

I had 800 GMAT + work experience and I got in everwhere. I tutored someone with 600 GMAT and low grades (1.9 GPA) and I helped her to develop outstanding Essays and she got in a few places and now works on Wallstreet. It all depends.

[flypretty]

I've read every single post and all future careers mentioned are either related to management, consulting, ibanking, or finance.

So if you specialize your BBA in something other than accounting/finance, such as marketing, is the MBA still a good investment? What does it take to climb up the corporate marketing ladder?:confused:

Signed,
An undergrad still contemplating to specialize in marketing or finance

[PHANTOMPHOENIX]

Does anyone have any input on a McGill MBA?

I didn't see any mentions about it while everyone was comparing MBA schools.

[marbss]

Go and grab the recent issue of Canadian Business. It has their Canadian MBA Guide with the gmat scores you will need as well as an overview of all the types of mbas offered.

[aimfox]

MBA is not an easy task to get into, but good luck mate.

[beepbeep]

is it possible to get in with 1.9? i'd like to know more.

Wow guys. Ok first off, rankings mean a little, but look at what top employers want.

1) Ivey
2) Rotman
3) Queens
4) York

Ivey and Rotman are a fair bit above the others.

Secondly, the name of the school only gets you in the door for some companies, you need to interview well and work hard to get anywhere.

Third, business school is about the contacts you make, not as much about the education.

Fourth, choose a school that fits your needs/desires. Ivey is all case-method, so bear that in mind.

Is it worth it?

Depends on what you are doing now and how well you do. Post MBAs start about $70-80,000 for average jobs. Management Consulting and Investment Banking are for the tops of the class at Ivey(US and Canada) or Rotman(Toronto only). Investment Bankers start at 300k+ (US) or 200k+ Canada. Management Consultants can start about $150 (top firms only).

And then it is how well you do. Once you get established, it isn't about the name of your school, but how well you do your job and what contacts you have from school.

For Ivey you need 2 of the following (illustrative i don't have the exact cutoffs):

1) 700 + GMAT
2) 3.7 GPA
3) 5 years excellent work experience

If you don't have those, you need something like:

1) 650 GMAT
2) 3.4 GPA
3) 5 years excellent work experience

and good essays. Then it goes down from there.

I had 800 GMAT + work experience and I got in everwhere. I tutored someone with 600 GMAT and low grades (1.9 GPA) and I helped her to develop outstanding Essays and she got in a few places and now works on Wallstreet. It all depends.

[f00kie]

I had 800 GMAT + work experience and I got in everwhere.

First off, congratulations!

Second off, how did you do it (the 800 GMAT part)?!

[qster]

I really tried to resist responding to this thread as I know that this is the sort of topic that never really goes anywhere... however, I can't resist passing along what I have learned from the business world about this topic...

Specifically, I want to mention Schulich, Rotman, and Ivey--which are often labeled as the 'top' MBA school in Canada... In reality, is it IMPOSSIBLE to say which is 'best' without some sort of background as to why the student is doing an MBA in the first place. If you're entering an MBA program just because you want 'a better job' then you're going for the wrong reason. You need to have a good understanding of why you are entering an MBA program in the first place, what an MBA can do for you, and where you want to be after graduation (and 5, 10-years after graduation for that matter).

+2

You should be going for an MBA to improve your business marketing and management skills, not to improve your dollar value.

Most MBA grads I see expect $100K right after graduating.
Sorry, but to earn that much you need to prove your business skills. Some piece of paper just doesn't cut it.

In the end, it's your work skills, effort and work ethics that earn you a titled position... along with respect of your peers, NOT the school that you graduated from. It may open doors for the interviews, but it won't land a job for you.

The rankings are all biased IMO for graduate and undergrad. They rank them based on Alumni experiences and alumi placings after graduation. They only way to due a proper ranking would be to simulate a business and get each of the random sample run the business in the virtual world and see how the fair.

Its almost as if the MBA and EMBA over the last few years is the new Engineering degree that everyone just had to graduate with or the CFA designation.

Personally...If I am hiring someone for a business company... I'd go with a CA rather an MBA.
Making a business decision? get it from a CA.

True some say.. CA can only attain a CFO and the MBA goes up to a CEO position.
For a TRUE CEO, that person must have Leadership and Vision to make the company... how many companies have you seen take a dive lately?

Do you know how many CEO's take leadership courses?

[qster]

First off, congratulations!

Second off, how did you do it (the 800 GMAT part)?!

You study until its tatooed to your brain.
Spend the money and take some of the prep courses at Kaplan to prepare yourself for the exam.

I scored just shy of 800 but grad school isn't for me.

[f00kie]

You study until its tatooed to your brain.
Spend the money and take some of the prep courses at Kaplan to prepare yourself for the exam.

I scored just shy of 800 but grad school isn't for me.

Wow, nice; so you kind of did it and then decided not to go? Hehe.

Anyway, I am still some time away from embarking on the journey of studying for the GMAT, although I'm already gathering information. How much time time did you spend studying for this thing, including courses and such?

[Kestral]

I'm wondering whether an MBA in this day and age is even necessary.

This is based on my own personal experience.

Right now I work at the Canadian arm of a Fortune 100 high tech company as a manager reporting to the CMO/Head/VP of Marketing. I have a B. Comm degree, and the head of marketing has a B. Comm degree.

I just accepted a job offer at the Canadian arm of a Fortune 500 financial company, reporting directly to the President and head of the Canadian arm of the company and am considered part of the Exec Team, with the salary to match. When I spoke to the recruiter afterwards, I found out that I beat out a couple of guys with MBA's from good schools. Once again, I have my B. Comm from Ryerson.

imo, what's more important than an MBA is:

1. Experience - the Fortune 100 high tech company I work for is considered one of the darlings of the industry and considered the best high tech company in terms of its marketing, it's on par with Google where everyone wants to work for them, so the fact that I have that experience in a marketing role as far as I'm concerned is like an MBA in Marketing.

2. People/communication skills - I interviewed with the President, and then my next interview was with the Director of Finance, Director of Sales and Director of Marketing (no pressure there huh). My communication skills are quite good, in terms of taking a complex situation and breaking it down to something simple to convey and understand. Plus I came across as a no-nonsense upfront positive person. I engendered a sense of trust and fun during the interviews.

3. Can Deliver The Goods - I treated the job interview like a day at the job. I was there to talk about how I could add value to the company immediately. I wasn't there to answer a few questions and hope for the best. I did my homework and it showed. I used creativity and imagination and applied it towards what I had researched about the company. My guess is my rivals just listed off their credentials, answered some stock questions with some stock answers and hoped for the best.

My next move will be a Senior Director/Vice President position, which will bring me deeper into the 6-figure territory, and based on what I've seen so far, I don't think I'll need an MBA at all. In the last few years especially, too many MBAs have screwed too many things up in the public eye, I think companies at this point are more interested in people who have the above qualities and can deliver the goods.

This is just my personal observation, I'd be interested to know about situations where someone came out and said directly for a real position (not an imagined one) where it was stated that an MBA was required for the job.

[ketchudj]

"800 GMAT"- some smarts, some skill, and some studying

"I'm wondering whether an MBA in this day and age is even necessary"
What Kestral forgets is that not everyone has a BComm- some, like myself did an undergrad in engineering. MBA helps you to change careers, and provides a certain level of comfort around your abilities. If you are looking at 2 people exactly the same and one has an MBA and one has a BComm who are you going to pick? The three points you mentioned are very important as well.

Although you might be successful, you might have been more successful if you had a MBA degree. I know for a fact many companies even send execs back to school to get one. For the better paying positions (Investment Banking/Management Consulting) you need to have an MBA in 99% of cases. Investment Bankers with MBAs are now averaging $350k or so coming out of school. But hey, if at 28 you are earning $350k with a BComm degree then I guess you didn't need an MBA.

"Most MBA grads I see expect $100K right after graduating." - True and most don't get it. CAs are good for accounting, MBA (depending on where you go) is a more rounded mindset.

[qster]

Wow, nice; so you kind of did it and then decided not to go? Hehe.

Anyway, I am still some time away from embarking on the journey of studying for the GMAT, although I'm already gathering information. How much time time did you spend studying for this thing, including courses and such?

Because the profession I choose at the time and the current one does not require you to have an MBA. So spending the time getting would be a complete waste. Not everyone needs an MBA. Some people get it hoping to make more $$$ and that is it.

What many potential MBA students forget to realize is, the more you want to make...the more time and effort is required. Most CEO's and other titled positions I know work 50-70 hrs per week. They are usually in the office before 8AM and don't leave til after 6PM... and work some weekends.
And not everyone is cut out to be a CEO as many lack the vision or leadership.

For me, during university I took a broad range of course to prepare for the working world. It helped that I excelled in math, analysis and problem sovling so I practiced more on grammar, writing and comphrension.

Read some of the books they have on Business Writing skills.

I scored high on my LSAT as well... but ethically I couldn't be a lawyer defending a guilty person no matter what of money.

For another reply...
Investment Bankers make that kind of money due to the amount of funds they bring into the company. Its like a sales positions with commission, plus they work killer hours. If companies do not pony up the cash, they move on.
BTW, not every Inventment Banker holds an MBA so I don't know where you got your 99% from
I can guarantee you, the peopl who make the most do not hold an MBA. I can list you over 500 names and all are multi-millionaires and the money on their own.

[Kestral]

Some great responses here, my own experiences working with people who have their MBAs from Rotman, Ivey, and people who do the same job without an MBA is that in terms of performance, there really isn't any difference overall, it all came down to the individual. I've seen quite a few MBAs from name schools that just sit in their cubes and (as he called it), "F--k the dog" all day long and I've seen some that do stellar work.

I think an MBA can open doors, without a doubt, especially for people with more education than real world experience in management. I also think at some point, experience trumps education and once a person has enough of the right experience, it no longer becomes an issue. For example, if a marketing manager with a B. Comm from Ryerson was responsible for the launch and marketing of the Apple iPod from the early 2000's to present was going up against a marketing manager with an MBA from Rotman/Ivey/Queens with some decent experience for a position say at Microsoft, as senior marketing director, and their first task in that new position is to launch the next generation Zune or Xbox, it's a no-brainer, the Ryerson B. Comm is getting the job.

Which outlines the real reason why an MBA matters, and one from a good school matters even more. Because whenever a company hires a person, there is an inherent risk that they take on. The more senior the position, the greater the risk. Companies, like the people that run them, are averse to risk and seek to minimize it.

An MBA is like a "stamp of approval" from the academic community that says "This guy has met a minimum standard of education (perceived to be set higher at places like Rotman/Ivey/Queens) and we are willing to put pen to paper and endorse him".

The right experience is also that "stamp of approval", but with the difference being that the person with the right experience has proven themselves in the real world and generated real world results that has directly brought value to a company in a business environment.

So to a hiring manager who has a choice, all other things being equal, which would be the lower risk choice? The MBA some collection of university professors who have no vested interest in the person's performance endorses, or a guy who has real world experience and has done the job successfully? It's a pretty simple choice.

And that is one of the reasons why I have decided at this time not to pursue my MBA. I would rather take that time and volunteer at work for additional projects that add to my experience. Also, I have a fledging business on the side, that if successful, will turn MBA, BA, CA and any other 2-3 letter designations into "BS". Last time I checked, one doesn't need to have an MBA to qualify for early financial independence.

[commie]

And that is one of the reasons why I have decided at this time not to pursue my MBA. I would rather take that time and volunteer at work for additional projects that add to my experience. Also, I have a fledging business on the side, that if successful, will turn MBA, BA, CA and any other 2-3 letter designations into "BS". Last time I checked, one doesn't need to have an MBA to qualify for early financial independence.

I think we already know a MBA is not for you.. ;)
the last few posts of yours seems like a self-promotion ad....

A MBA is not right for everyone....It may not be a good fit for you, but it may be a good fit for someone else...Or it may be a good fit for someone else and not for you.....Everyone's case is different, depends on their background, career, personal position in their industry, and their goal with a mba.....There is no one right answer to any career discussions. Alot of people on this site tends to think that if its good for them, then its good for everyone.

[Kestral]

I think we already know a MBA is not for you.. ;)
the last few posts of yours seems like a self-promotion ad....
Wow, where did that come from? That's a very strange accusation, considering that I have nothing to sell.

Though you bring up a good point, an MBA is not for everyone. Some people may be under the false assumption that they need one when in fact it is not only unnecessary, but counterproductive.

One thing to also consider is the idea of "Creative Avoidance". Do the people asking about MBAs already have work experience, or have they had difficulty finding a job and now are thinking of getting an MBA in hopes of getting a job or using this as an excuse to stay in school and avoid entering the real world.

[f00kie]

One thing to also consider is the idea of "Creative Avoidance". Do the people asking about MBAs already have work experience, or have they had difficulty finding a job and now are thinking of getting an MBA in hopes of getting a job or using this as an excuse to stay in school and avoid entering the real world.

At least in my own personal experience, truth be told I don't think I would have much trouble getting jobs after university (I don't have too much trouble getting them in university now, and I'm not being cocky -- I work hard for it). The way I see an MBA is that it will complement my engineering degree with real world business case studies, for a much rounder individual (I've became disinterested in traditional 'engineering' some time ago). Of course, there is always the factor of quickly accelerating the corporate ladder, or at least I see it that way right now (I'm 20).

In essence, I am looking for a high-fueled career (consulting, banking - and not the backoffice stuff, etc) and at this point feel that an MBA is almost required to succeed there. I can also honestly say that I think (or hope) that it might overshadow some less desirable personal characteristics/qualities that I have.

[commie]

In essence, I am looking for a high-fueled career (consulting, banking - and not the backoffice stuff, etc) and at this point feel that an MBA is almost required to succeed there. I can also honestly say that I think (or hope) that it might overshadow some less desirable personal characteristics/qualities that I have.

You don't need an MBA right now....In another 5 years maybe..
If your goal is to get into the consulting or iBanking industry....then doing a MBA right after an engineering degree without experience in either of those 2 industries is a waste of time/money....

Consulting and banking firms will hire plenty of engineer undergrads into their Analyst program....That is the route you need to take....If like you say, you have no problem getting jobs in the 'real world'...then it should not be a problem for you.

Spent 2-3 years as an analyst, then thats the right time to go back to do your MBA....and return to consulting or iBanking as a Senior Consultant or Associate...Then its a matter of your personal performance that will determine if you can climb the corporate ladder..

Doing a MBA without prior industry experience is not a good method of gaining entrance into the consulting or iBanking industry....Especially the iBank industry....They like to hire undergrads into their Analyst positions, and MBA grads with 2 years of analyst experience into their Associate positions....If you are a MBA grad without analyst experience...its hard for them to place you.....Of course there are a few exceptional students that will break into the field without prior experience....but that is truly exceptional cases, and not the norm.

Thats just my opinion...But its based on personally going through the MBA program.....and being in the consulting industry for 10 years....Also participating in the mentorship program at my alumni....

[f00kie]

I didn't plan on doing the MBA right away, after at least 2 years (and probably closer to 4 years) of experience would be best for me, I think (depending on the 'type' of experience too). What I did (maybe) say is that it'd be my goal to do the GMAT as early as possible, while I still have time (i.e. in the summer) such that I can cover all the bases (the score, I believe, expires after 5 years for most schools).

Thanks for the feedback though; I've received the same response of "don't go to MBA school after engineering" from quite a few people in various industries, and considering that I was at one point thinking of doing that (since high school, actually, as U of T Engineering has a dual MBA program), they have all swayed me away from it already.

[amph1bius]

I'm stuck in this question as well; however, my situation is a little different. I completed my engineering degree in engineering physics, pretty much the engineering science at uoft. Over the course of the years, I had some pretty tough courses, and coupled along with some personal family events that occured (parents divorced), and as a result, my marks suffered. Ultimately, I want to get an MBA to work in the investments industry, but I feel the time isn't right at the moment. I'm currently working a contract with Fidelity in the pensions department, and also working as a business development executive for a start-up company. In doing both of these, I hope to gain some work experience that I can use for an MBA. However, my question is that my marks are pretty low. They're around a C+ average. Should I be taking some business courses to boost up my GPA?