Major Dilemma - Drop class or risk it?

[Demari]

hey.. my situation is basically.. i was on probation for bad grades in the winter.. and i decided to take two classes in the summer to try to get ahead a little bit.. well that didn't work out so good and now i find myself in the same position as last semester..

here is the problem.. for the two classes i have, if their final average is not atleast 50% i will be kicked out of university..

now, for class (A), i would require ATLEAST 86% on the final exam to pass, which is a big step up from the 60% i got on the mid term..

for class (B), i would need atleast 75% on the mid term and also on the final exam, plus a good grade on two small assignemtns to pass..

now in my honest opinion, i can pass class (B) easily, but my average will probably lie in the low 50's... therefore.. if i take the risk and continue with class (A) as well, if i do REAL bad, than basically i'm kicked out of uni just for that class..

so that leaves me with these choices..

1. I can drop class (A) without any academic penalty, HOWEVER, i will be out about 6-700 dollars and a lot of wasted time.
2. I can take class (A) as well and REALLY study hard and try to pass, but the pressure will be crazy... because i really CANNOT get kicked out of uni.. or I can try to maybe get a 60% or something in class (B) that would help to bring the average up to 50%.. but again it's so risky..

lastly, i have to decide by July 4th! (the last day to drop a class for me)
sooooooooooo.. if anyone read all that and can offer advice, PLEASE do..

i know the most 'responsible' thing would probably be to drop the class but i would hate to waste the money and time..

any advice is greatly appreciated, thanks in advance

[xIcewind]

Unfortunately, if you're not confident about passing course A, but also NEED to stay in university, I think the best option for you is to drop it and maintain a 50+ average in your other course.

It's true you'll be out of the money for the credits, but do you think it's worth risking being kicked out of University for 600-700 dollars?

[CSK'sMom]

I hate to say it but... University is not for everyone. College may be a better suited option for you. Our nephew was kicked out of university (hospitality management) for failing grades, ended up in college and is now rather high up in one of the hotel chains at age 26. He regrets wasting that year and a half at university now...It's absolutely not the end of the world if you aren't cut out for university. :)

[MS_Project]

If I were you, I would drop class A and put all of my efforts into class B. Just to guarantee that you can do well.

You are taking 2 courses this summer and cannot handle it? There must be other reasons why you are getting low grades. Are you working a lot this summer? If so, you might want to quit your job temporarily and your grades may improve.

You should analyze your professor. Some professors are really nice if you talk to him/her about your concerns. A student in my class screwed up the midterm and went to the prof every time after class and ended up with a good grade. I screwed up the midterm and didn't ask for help and I ended up dropping the course one time. If your prof is one of those who gives bad marks to 50-60% of the students, you should drop the course right away (in your situation) If your prof is giving bad marks to 20-30% of your class A, you might need to change your studying methods.

[buy.A.gift]

i would drop both ...
by taking 2 courses in one summer term is a bad decision.
Summer school = accelerate course
too much material you have to catch in such a short period of time

[Ratzilla]

i think your priorities arent definitly not set for university
I'd recommend dropping class A. But also consider what you plan to do next. Do you intend to stay in school? what are the reasonw you're in school? If it's just because everyone else is doing it or because you don't know what you awnt to do, you might want to figure that stuff out first before actually going to school.

I'm currently in university and I take 7-8 courses/semester, I plan to take 9 in a semester next year. I know that I do a lot of work but that's because I prioritize school first when I'm in an academic semester and I honestly study until 9 or 10 everynight before going home. I'm not saying that this is what university requires but I didn't make university coming out of high school and that was because I spent all my time playing MMORPGS. I gave that up because I got bored of it and began to actually enjoy what I was learning. I took two years to gather my bearings while going to college. And that was probably the best decision I've made my entire life.

[tubs]

Cut your losses and drop the Class, it's just not worth getting kicked out of University.

Whatever kept you from doing a decent job with Class A is probably still affecting you. Therefore passing by studying really hard from this point on might not work because of that factor.

I botched one of my online courses 'coz I didn't do anything until the last two weeks. Professor gave me a break and allowed me to hand in all the the assignments in before the course end. However, whatever kept from doing anything in the course didn't go away and therefore it would have been a futile effort to continue. So I dropped it with an academic penalty that is just a bit better than an F and focused on my three other courses.

So basically, the question you gotta ask yourself is: How did you end up in this situation?

So find that out and prevent whatever that is in the future. Trust me, $700 is not a lot especially when you factor in the $$$ you've already spent in uni.

Good luck.

[coolspot]

A++++

I agree. We're ingrained with the idea that everyone should go to university and while post-secondary education is always an advantage, some people aren't made for the university curriculum and would THRIVE in a college setting.

There are lots of problems in university - perhaps the OP should consider switching program to something he has more interest in.

Since the OP is already in university, college should only be a fall back if the OP can't cut it in any university program, or decides to take a drastic course of action such as going into trades... otherwise college programs for stuff that is offered in university is often inferior.

[CSK'sMom]

... otherwise college programs for stuff that is offered in university is often inferior.


Absolutely false. In our nephews case the corporation he works for won't even look at uni grads. They want the hands on experience that college provides. Their mantra is uni grads tend to be book smart but reality dumb. They don't seem to know how to actually deal with real life scenarios...

[Dragon120]

Absolutely false. In our nephews case the corporation he works for won't even look at uni grads. They want the hands on experience that college provides. Their mantra is uni grads tend to be book smart but reality dumb. They don't seem to know how to actually deal with real life scenarios...

You have no idea how many dumb "MBAs" I've worked with in the previous 2 years and how many more I'll encounter. They seem to lack the basic understanding of "common sense". Unfortunately, some organizations will look at your educational qualifications and some will not...it all depends on your industry and position.

Good luck to you whatever you do...

[konfusion666]

IMO, always err on the side of caution when dealing with Uni averages and probation periods.

Don't put yourself in a position like "I MUST get at least 78% in the final exam for this course or I get kicked out of Uni for good!"

Drop courses if necessary to keep yourself from that position... assuming that you are still within the free drop period. There is probably a point after which, if you drop a course you get a 32% grade or something.

[konfusion666]

Since the OP is already in university, college should only be a fall back if the OP can't cut it in any university program, or decides to take a drastic course of action such as going into trades... otherwise college programs for stuff that is offered in university is often inferior.

I don't know about that. I have met a lot of people holding "college diplomas" at the Big 5 banks (Corporate, not even Branch). And if I'm not mistaken, they'd be considered top-tier corporations.

[Demari]

okay.. i guess i'm probably gonna drop class (A) and do my best and pass class (B)..

what would really suck is if i end up failing class (B)..

if i start studying a few hours a day now for just class (B), even though i'm pretty behind, i think i should be able to do it easily.. i just need 75%'s across the board for whatevers left

atleast i'm lucky i found out the last day to withdrawal was in like 3 or 4 days.. because i was under the impression taking 2 classes in the summer didn't count as a full semester so i couldn't be kicked out

[controlyar]

If you were already on probation after only your first year of university, why hasn't that shaped you up yet? At only a 2 course workload you still cannot get your act together? These are the types of students that fail. And by the way things are going, you will not graduate. You need to grow up and have a life changing moment, or else a career of flipping burgers is around the corner.
Perhaps you should take the tone of my post as a form of motivation. Life is not a joke.

I recall your thread from a month back or so. I have a strong suspicion this is your problem.
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=450924

[Tofu Drift Shinji]

I hate to say it but... University is not for everyone.

+1

Couldn't agree more.

OP, do what you think is realistically going to benefit your situation. If you don't see that getting an 86 is possible, drop it. If you think you can manage to squeek by in class B, do that. Be honest with yourself though. If your study habits aren't so great, take that into consideration when you think about whether to drop class A or not.

Also, consider the programs offered at college.

[coolspot]

I don't know about that. I have met a lot of people holding "college diplomas" at the Big 5 banks (Corporate, not even Branch). And if I'm not mistaken, they'd be considered top-tier corporations.

So have I - most of people in the workforce have no degree or only college diplomas. In fact only a minority of the population have university degrees. However, times are changing - and that was then and this is now.

It's hard to make it into senior management these days without more than one degree. Just look at the top executives at the major banks ... I think almost all have more than 1 degree or designation!

http://scotiabank.com/cda/content/0,1608,CID8431_LIDen,00.html

http://www.rbc.com/newsroom/bios.html

http://www.td.com/executive.jsp

The OP is already in university - so the OP should maximize his opportunties at university before dropping out and switching to college.

There are still plenty of other routes for the OP to take - such as getting help (private tutoring), switching programs (any degree is better than no degree), switching schools, or method of study (partime, DE, coop, etc).

College is a good path to take for certain types of jobs and people - but let's not kid ourselves and say that college is equivalent to a university education. In general, college offers a very focused education which is great for getting started in the labor force but it doesn't provide the same theoretical foundations required for long term success. Thus, a college diploma will land you a job, but a university degree offers better opportunity at making more money:

http://www.cou.on.ca/content/objects/BR_Ontario_College_and_University_Fact_Sheet.pdf

http://www.hrsdc.gc.ca/en/cs/sp/hrsdc/lp/publications/sp-662-09-06/page06.shtml

http://www2.arts.ubc.ca/cresp/riddell1.pdf

There is upto a 20% - 25% difference in income level between college and unversity graduates!

However, if the situation for the OP is hopeless at university, college is not a dead end road - but just don't expect it to be the same as a degree.

Absolutely false. In our nephews case the corporation he works for won't even look at uni grads. They want the hands on experience that college provides. Their mantra is uni grads tend to be book smart but reality dumb. They don't seem to know how to actually deal with real life scenarios...

College develops students with practical experience but lack theoretical underpinnings. Thus these students are able to perform perform work immediately, but they run the risk of their education becoming outdated. University students are taught to critically think - so while they may not be practical - they can grasps concepts quickier and improve in the long run. It's a trade off.

Also, university students can demand higher wages and are able to get better jobs than college graduates - so your nephews corporation probably doesn't want to deal with the competitive marketplace in retaining university graduates.

There are good opportunities for college graduates (I work with several), but it has been proven (?) that on average a university graduate does better in life. Employment rates between college and university students is roughly the same however, college graduates earn much less than university graduates across the board (some industries upto 25% more). Upward mobility is enhanced with a degree. Also, a degree is "valued more" than a dipolma.

BTW, I haven't heard of any major corporation only hiring college graduates ... unless it's a factory or some sort of trade.

[weedb0y]

Absolutely false. In our nephews case the corporation he works for won't even look at uni grads. They want the hands on experience that college provides. Their mantra is uni grads tend to be book smart but reality dumb. They don't seem to know how to actually deal with real life scenarios...

Because they arent looking for smarts in that kind of role or know that University grads will just use them as a fallback corp and retention would be all time low.

For eg. (Enterprise Rent a Car's management trainee program - caters to new grads from uni and colleges, however, only 1 out of every 7 employees as a degree and even that is a artsy fartsy degree! Otherwise, they loose the employee within weeks).

University degree has more options in the end. They also start with higher $ as well as opposed to a college grad. (Only starting pay, rest is upto them!)

[Caillo]

Absolutely false. In our nephews case the corporation he works for won't even look at uni grads. They want the hands on experience that college provides. Their mantra is uni grads tend to be book smart but reality dumb. They don't seem to know how to actually deal with real life scenarios...

Not false at all. Many of the diplomas you get at colleges which are similar in name to degrees you can get University carry little weight to them. For example, a person with a college diploma in business admin. will be seriously disadvantaged when applying for a job versus someone with a B.Comm.

Colleges have some great programs for skilled trades and "hands-on" jobs. However, the programs they offer to compete directly with universities are seriously inferior as cool pointed out (examples: business, econ, engineering, etc.)

[Rifle]

In that mode of panic, the option of going through with class A and trying your best for that desired mark usually does not pan out. I would suggest dropping out of it, and just retaking it next semester. 600-700dollars is just a paycheque of full-time work. And the time wasted is not really time wasted, as the 2nd time around is usually much easier than the first, and is an almost guaranteed better mark.

Look at the options, I would rather take the monetary loss rather than be suspended for a X number of semesters. Academic suspension hurts far more than the 600-700 dollar loss. Also, you might need to have a reality check, and put some more effort in your studies, from going to tutorial to second thinking that late night movie before your exam, etc.

[CompWizrd]

Keep in mind your university credits are likely not transferrable to a college, especially if you're barely getting by at as it is.


I was looking at the local college's offerings both recently, and a few years ago, and was disappointed there's no way to speed up the process of getting a degree.. I could easily test out of half of what they were requiring for the diploma, yet they would only allow me to test for one course.

[konfusion666]

It's hard to make it into senior management these days without more than one degree. Just look at the top executives at the major banks ... I think almost all have more than 1 degree or designation!

Such a minute percentage of the population is "senior management". I bet even on RFD, you'd only find 0.25 to 0.5% of the readership eventually breaking into that profession, if any! Perhaps its more realistic to use "doctor" or "dentist" as a measure of the value of a Degree rather than "senior management".

College is a good path to take for certain types of jobs and people - but let's not kid ourselves and say that college is equivalent to a university education. In general, college offers a very focused education which is great for getting started in the labor force but it doesn't provide the same theoretical foundations required for long term success.

Not equivalent, no...

On the subject of college grads, I've noticed that yes they seem to get jobs easily but it doesn't stop at that -- if they continue to work hard at their career and engage in regular training, they manage to lead fulfilling long-term careers. The ones I've seen anyway.

[MS_Project]

So, what's the conclusion Demari? Today is July 3rd and your drop date is here?


This thread is almost like a debate between College diplomas vs University degree. I think someone should create an "Official" thread and have a long debate. :D

[Demari]

man.. ****! i can't believe how stupid i am
i just found out today my average has to be 60%, not 50%, otherwise i am kicked out.. so now i have decide in the next hour or so if i can get a 60% in class (B)..
i did bad on one thing, so my standing in that class is 9/30 %..
i have 2 assignments taht total 10% together, a midterm for 20%, and the final for 40%.. so i have to get around 80% on the assignments, 70% on the midterm, and about 75% on the final..

i cant believe i put myself in this ****** situation again..
i think i'm just gonna go ahead and drop this class too.. it's way too risky..
and i appreciate all the advice but i can't go to college now...

**** i just wasted like $1400 and more than 2 months of time

[TenzoR]

man.. ****! i can't believe how stupid i am
i just found out today my average has to be 60%, not 50%, otherwise i am kicked out.. so now i have decide in the next hour or so if i can get a 60% in class (B)..
i did bad on one thing, so my standing in that class is 9/30 %..
i have 2 assignments taht total 10% together, a midterm for 20%, and the final for 40%.. so i have to get around 80% on the assignments, 70% on the midterm, and about 75% on the final..

i cant believe i put myself in this ****** situation again..
i think i'm just gonna go ahead and drop this class too.. it's way too risky..
and i appreciate all the advice but i can't go to college now...

**** i just wasted like $1400 and more than 2 months of time

live and learn

[omagedon]

i cant believe i put myself in this ****** situation again..
i think i'm just gonna go ahead and drop this class too.. it's way too risky..
and i appreciate all the advice but i can't go to college now...

**** i just wasted like $1400 and more than 2 months of time

The way you are responding, sorry but you got no choice but goto College. Since, its sounds like University is way too hard for you and you are just wasting your parents or your future (student loans) money for nothing...

[Demari]

just came back.. handed in the form.. hopefully everything goes through and i'm out some cash/time but atleast still in university.. i'm definately gonna use this as a (another) learning experience

so conclusion: i've dropped both classes

[SFA]

I think you really have to be more honest with yourself right now and ask why you have struggled in university? What is your major or program? I think it takes quiet a bit of effort to go on academic probation, as university courses I've found are also quite forgiving provided you put some effort and time into your studies.

I bet that 90% of your problem(s) are because you are not managing your time properly. I don't care how hard a major or program is, but if someone puts a little bit of time and effort (I am not talking about hanging out with your buddies in the cafe and glancing over notes) but actually sitting by yourself and doing the readings and homework.

Don't be so down on yourself.. I know you probably just lost a bit of money from this mistake.. but you have to be sincere and try to figure something out before Sep. starts and you are well into the Fall semester.

[CSK'sMom]

BTW, I haven't heard of any major corporation only hiring college graduates ... unless it's a factory or some sort of trade.

Coolspot, it's a huge multi-national corporation with it's focus in the hospitality sector that has name recognition around the world. ;) I won't name them specifically. At 26 years old our nephew has woprked his way into middle to upper management. His bonus last year was his downpayment on his house (not 10% either). He has a company car and is sent for training all over the world with all expenses paid. It is absolutely not a factory or a trade, but don't knock the trades either. A report commisioned by the commercial real estate developers in BC states that a kid starting an apprenticeship right after highschool today should be making well into the 6 figure salary range by the time he/she is 35!

[azn_dan]

I would just like to add a few notes to what other posters have already said. Make sure you think about college, though with bad marks is it possible to get into college so easily? You can always get re-instated to your university if you would want to have a fresh start.

Though many options are open you, yourself should be the judge of your own capabilities. Have you been skipping courses? Sure skipping class during the regular year is fine now and then, 1 class of summer school = 3 regular classes ( atleast at Mac ), and man if you miss like a few your pretty much screwed yourself over.

I wish you luck and hope that everything you have done this past year is something you can learn from.

[7jai]

Drop the classes, retake them later.

There's your solution. Good luck, and I hope you've learned your lesson.