Emission's Test: I almost failed the first, two years later I pass it easily?!?

[bembol]

Are these Emission's Test/Drive Clean facilities flawed, was it just the shop? Did my MODS had anything to do with it?

My first test on my '02 Acura RSX, I took it to Canadian Tire and I almost failed, the readings was close to the limit. I was surprised because I thought I took care of her.

This year, two years later I'm up for it again and was ready to make the necessary steps to correct it. This time, I took it where my cousin gets it done at Firestone...

I passed with flying colors, the readings I got were very low/like the way it should be the way I treat her. LOL Three things changed. First, was Synthetic...I went from Mobil 1 5W-30 to Castrol 0W-30 German. Second, is the Exhaust from Stock to GReddy EVOII Catback. Last, is my intake from Stock to AEM V2.

[Action Jackson]

You took it to CT the first time. That's all that needs to be said.:twisted:

[onecoolloser]

You took it to CT the first time. That's all that needs to be said.:twisted:

+1 crappy tire blows

[Pete_Coach]

The testing devices are certified and approved, no matter who has them so the Canadian Tire comments regarding these tests are full of it. The machines do a self test and when hooked up to the MTO to transmit the vehicle data there is machine data transmitted as well. Some folks are just fear mongers and rumor spreaders.
Your reasons for having a bad reading can be from any of a hundred issues with the power train ranging to the engine and exhaust not being up to operating temperature to bad gas to a slightly fouled engine, weather conditions etc. Your reasons for passing two years later can be that you did not have the conditions that you had then. Don't worry, it is not a Canadian Tire conspiracy regardless of what some folks are trying to convey.
Now, are the tests worth it, well that is another subject.

[Madrid2k]

The testing devices are certified and approved, no matter who has them so the Canadian Tire comments regarding these tests are full of it.

Actually, my personal experience indicates otherwise.

Back when I had my old CRX si, I took it to Crappy Tire to get e-tested. It failed badly.

When they did a separate Drive Clean diagnostic to assess the Repair Cost Limit, the CRX passed with flying colours.

It passed a half hour later with no repairs done, or fuel additives used!

The service advisor had this puzzled look on his face when he was looking at the test results, and went to call in the technician to question him on what happened.

I said, "Well, I don't care what happened. It says I passed, so I passed."

I paid them, got my report and left quickly.

Thank you for screwing up Crappy Tire! Your ineptitude actually worked out for me in that instance.

[Pete_Coach]

Actually, my personal experience indicates otherwise.

Back when I had my old CRX si, I took it to Crappy Tire to get e-tested. It failed badly.

When they did a separate Drive Clean diagnostic to assess the Repair Cost Limit, the CRX passed with flying colours.

It passed a half hour later with no repairs done, or fuel additives used!

The service advisor had this puzzled look on his face when he was looking at the test results, and went to call in the technician to question him on what happened.

I said, "Well, I don't care what happened. It says I passed, so I passed."

I paid them, got my report and left quickly.

Thank you for screwing up Crappy Tire! Your ineptitude actually worked out for me in that instance.

"Back when I had my old CRX si, I took it to Crappy Tire to get e-tested. It failed badly.

When they did a separate Drive Clean diagnostic to assess the Repair Cost Limit, the CRX passed with flying colours."

This was done on the same same machine?
I guess what I am saying is that the condition of the vehicle is paramount. You may have warmed up the engine a bit more, you may have revved it up a bit more and burnt out some carbon or whatever, who knows. The point is that the machine is the same so, the variable is the car. The machine only is a reader of inputs and reports those readings. The speed on the dynomometer must be right, the rpms must be right or the machine will not take readings.

[ES_Revenge]

Drive Clean is by no means a perfect (or even close) initiative by the government. In fact Drive Clean has almost nothing to do with driving clean or cleaning up the air, it's just a lot of BS. Unfortunately, it's the law, and you can't really get away from it.

The problem is a lot of people actually think it does have to do with cleaning up the air and buy into all the goverment propaganda and BS. :rolleyes: First of all it's coming from the Ontario government which, regardless of the party in power, is perhaps the most crooked and business-serving provincial government in the country. That should be the first clue of the illegitimacy of the ******** Drive Clean program.

That ranting aside, there do exist far too many variances between test centres and far too much leeway for garages to fail or refuse to test vehicles just to make a buck.

One thing I would mention though is your limits go up over the years. E.g. I'm pretty sure your car is allowed more emissions after it is a few years old, than it was when it was new. Therefore you could have been on the borderline in the first few years because your car was a relatively bad polluter for it's year at that time. Then later when the allowed limits went up for you, you were more in the safe zone (because your car probably remained constant while the limits went up). I'm not sure about that but I think that's how the limits work.

Did you check your previous test results compared to your current ones, for absolute readings, or are you just looking at the test you have now and remembering you were near the limit the last time and now you aren't?

[bembol]

I guess that could be it...I tried looking for my first/previous test to compare actually.

[Madrid2k]

"Back when I had my old CRX si, I took it to Crappy Tire to get e-tested. It failed badly.

When they did a separate Drive Clean diagnostic to assess the Repair Cost Limit, the CRX passed with flying colours."

This was done on the same same machine?
I guess what I am saying is that the condition of the vehicle is paramount. You may have warmed up the engine a bit more, you may have revved it up a bit more and burnt out some carbon or whatever, who knows. The point is that the machine is the same so, the variable is the car. The machine only is a reader of inputs and reports those readings. The speed on the dynomometer must be right, the rpms must be right or the machine will not take readings.


I'm not sure if it was done by the same machine.

Even with the engine properly warmed up, it would have resulted in a marginal - not completely different result.

I think the variable at play was the skill/care of the technician himself. I personally think he didn't hook it up properly.

While it worked out in my favour, it didn't leave me with a strong sense of confidence in the abilities of the service staff there. (C'mon, how hard would it be to hook up a car to the emissions machine?)

[Avatar]

I have a question. Anybody knows if say someone fails at a shop, can he goes to another one to do the test again? And what happen if he pass in the second test?

[new_vr]

I'm not sure if it was done by the same machine.

Even with the engine properly warmed up, it would have resulted in a marginal - not completely different result.

I think the variable at play was the skill/care of the technician himself. I personally think he didn't hook it up properly.

I completely disagree. The engine being warmed up properly can make one of the biggest differences in a drive clean result

[seftonm]

The catalytic converter may not have been fully warmed up. That can make a huge difference.

[aquariaguy]

I was told to drive around for 20-30 mins, on the highway. Not side streets. And fill up with premium gas. It helps.

[ES_Revenge]

I have a question. Anybody knows if say someone fails at a shop, can he goes to another one to do the test again? And what happen if he pass in the second test?

Yeah I'm pretty sure you can. You can test it as many times as you want really, lol. Provided you pay each place the fee, of course. But if you go back to the place you went to the first time the "re-test" fee is less than the first test fee.

Just because you fail doesn't mean your car is banned from the road forever, lol. It just means you have to fix the car and re-test it and get a pass. However many tries that takes is up to you, lol.

The one thing that doesn't apply to you (which is ridiculous IMO and another reason why Drive Clean is just a scam operation) is that you can't use the repair cost limit yourself. You see you can get a conditional pass (or at least you used to be able to) after you pay for so much money in repairs from the mechanic. If after you spend that amount it still doesn't pass you get a pass anyway because you gave money to the mechanic. In other words you're paying for a pass :rolleyes:

But you can't say hey "I bought these parts myself, spent the time repairing it and that should equal that dollar amount so I should get a conditional pass". Nope doesn't work like that. You have to give money to the crook (mechanic) in order to use that avenue. This just another reason showing how it's a cash grab for mechanics and the government and nothing more. You can still have a terribly polluting car but just because you forked over like $500 to the mechanic means you pass :rolleyes: Yeah a heck of a lot that has to do with driving clean. The only person driving clean is the mechanic making their clean getaway to the bank with your $$$.

[almostfreeman]

I couldn't agree more .. the drive clean program is a joke, and not a very funny one.:twisted:

[Pete_Coach]

Yeah I'm pretty sure you can. You can test it as many times as you want really, lol. Provided you pay each place the fee, of course. But if you go back to the place you went to the first time the "re-test" fee is less than the first test fee.

Just because you fail doesn't mean your car is banned from the road forever, lol. It just means you have to fix the car and re-test it and get a pass. However many tries that takes is up to you, lol.

The one thing that doesn't apply to you (which is ridiculous IMO and another reason why Drive Clean is just a scam operation) is that you can't use the repair cost limit yourself. You see you can get a conditional pass (or at least you used to be able to) after you pay for so much money in repairs from the mechanic. If after you spend that amount it still doesn't pass you get a pass anyway because you gave money to the mechanic. In other words you're paying for a pass :rolleyes:

But you can't say hey "I bought these parts myself, spent the time repairing it and that should equal that dollar amount so I should get a conditional pass". Nope doesn't work like that. You have to give money to the crook (mechanic) in order to use that avenue. This just another reason showing how it's a cash grab for mechanics and the government and nothing more. You can still have a terribly polluting car but just because you forked over like $500 to the mechanic means you pass :rolleyes: Yeah a heck of a lot that has to do with driving clean. The only person driving clean is the mechanic making their clean getaway to the bank with your $$$.

I know people in my area that have spent the money to "pass". The thing is that in one case new tires were purchased and in another some other work (non pollution equipment related) was done. The shop got the money and the customer got the conditional pass and another two years on the road with a "pollution free" vehicle. Yes, this thing is a scam and makes Governments look good to the environmentalists.

[Avatar]

The one thing that doesn't apply to you (which is ridiculous IMO and another reason why Drive Clean is just a scam operation) is that you can't use the repair cost limit yourself. You see you can get a conditional pass (or at least you used to be able to) after you pay for so much money in repairs from the mechanic. If after you spend that amount it still doesn't pass you get a pass anyway because you gave money to the mechanic. In other words you're paying for a pass :rolleyes:


IT's possible that somebody hack/cheat the machine to make some money themselves. I can think of putting somekind of chemical into the hose that connects to the muffler output. The output fume will react with the chemical and fail the test. Or input wrong data for the car. etc..
As far as I remember it's the Liberal passed the law and it's only in Ontario. Now they can't withdraw it because ppl have invested a lot on those machines.
I don't remember how many times I've seen cars emitting black smoke out there and still OK.

[VivienM]

As far as I remember it's the Liberal passed the law and it's only in Ontario. Now they can't withdraw it because ppl have invested a lot on those machines.

DriveClean was introduced prior to 2003, so like every other "good" idea in Ontario, it was the brainchild of Mr. Harris & co.

[Pete_Coach]

DriveClean was introduced prior to 2003, so like every other "good" idea in Ontario, it was the brainchild of Mr. Harris & co.

Ontario was just a long line of States and Provinces to adopt this scam. The tree huggers thought it was a good idea and in order to not do something politically correct, everyone adopts it. Even the tree huggers with half a brain realize that this was all show and no benefit except to a select few who can make some money from it (manufacturers of a testing device that they could not find a use for). I mean even the tree huggin hippies in BC are P'd at having to pay big bucks to keep their VW flower power micrbusses on the road :cheesygri

[VivienM]

Ontario was just a long line of States and Provinces to adopt this scam. The tree huggers thought it was a good idea and in order to not do something politically correct, everyone adopts it. Even the tree huggers with half a brain realize that this was all show and no benefit except to a select few who can make some money from it (manufacturers of a testing device that they could not find a use for).

The problem that socialist environmentalists don't want to acknowledge is that, by and large, the most polluting vehicles are owned by the people with the least money. Rich people with brand new MB S550s or Audi A8s aren't the problem...

But since you can't make some pizza delivery guy driving a 1992 car spend $2500 he doesn't have in repairs... they introduce that stupid cap on repairs, as a result of which the actual polluters are entitled to keep polluting...

[sshe11]

wow where can I learn more about this Drive Clean Joke/Scam ??

[Pete_Coach]

wow where can I learn more about this Drive Clean Joke/Scam ??

The joke/scam is an opinion (mine), based on the Drive Clean program supposedly doing something for the environment. This would be a good useful program if, and this is important, if you could not buy your way out of it. Getting tested and failing every two years requires you to do some emissions maintenance and if it still fails, well, you get a conditional for the next two year. Fail again, pay a little more and get another conditional (supposing that you failed again) and so on and so on indefinately. Does this help the environment? Perhaps not but it sure helps the auto repair industry and parts manufacturers. Now, take all cars off the road till they pass, then maybe the thing is worth what it was meant to do?
Oh, and where can you learn? Just search Drive Clean, and you will become overloaded.:rolleyes:

[VivienM]

Now, take all cars off the road till they pass, then maybe the thing is worth what it was meant to do?

But... how do you deal with the fact that the owners of cars that can't pass can't AFFORD to make them pass?

That's the problem with this thing.

[Pete_Coach]

But... how do you deal with the fact that the owners of cars that can't pass can't AFFORD to make them pass?

That's the problem with this thing.

So, what does that have to do with passing a law to save the environment? Point taken but you can see the stupidity of this law.
Save the Earth or, if you can't, just pay an extra $200 or so a year to a repair shop. He will use the money to buy recycled toilet paper.

[VivienM]

So, what does that have to do with passing a law to save the environment? Point taken but you can see the stupidity of this law.

Well, if you want to save the environment, then the obvious solution (ignoring the large potential for fraud) is to have the taxpayers pay for the necessary repairs. That's the only way to make it work...