Safety Standards and E-Test questions.

[Siera56]

Hello all,

I was wondering if anyone could help me out a bit with the safety standards and e-test requirements fro transferring ownership.

This is my first car (it was given to me as a last-minute family gift), It's a 1992 acura vigor.

I'm taking it to get e-tested and certified this weekend but had some questions about what to expect.

Does anyone know if a small crack in the windshield (driver's side) is enough cause to fail the safety test? If yes, do you know the average cost for a new windshield?

also, the last time this car was e-tested, it failed. They said it was because of the O2 sensor, but i was wondering if its possible to pass without getting that replaced right away.

test scores were: HC ppm 96; idle 355
CO % 0.24; idle 1.46
NO ppm 92

Thanks in advance for any tips or advice, as I said this is my first car and I'm a bit confused about the process. I have a trip permit but would like to get the car officially registered as soon as possible.

thanks!

[DragonZealot]

You have to fix them up b4 you test otherwise you are wasting your test money.

It won't pass safety if there is a crack on the windshield.

e-test is either a pass or fail there is no conditional pass (like on condition that you replace your O2 sensor).

[Pete_Coach]

See here for what is required for a safety check.
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/DBLaws/Regs/English/900611_e.htm
Scroll down until you get to schedule 1 and there you should find what your car needs to pass in order to get your safety certificate. Some shops may try to get you to do more and that will be up to you. Know this, if you are going to get into an argument with the mechanic about whether or not the car passes, he can refuse to give you a certificate and you start all over again. It is up to the discretion of the mechanic unless you can convince them that it is not required.

The e-test issue. Well, you can get the shop to replace the O2 sensor and give them the money. The law requires you to make a certain amount of repairs and then if you do not pass than you get an exemption certificate for the next time. http://www.driveclean.com/ Check for the repair cost limit. You can do this for several years as I see it and never have to pass, just keep paying the prescribed money to get passes. Environment make no difference as long as you pay to pass.

[Sonbuster]

within 2-3 months you MAY incur problems associated with a 15 year old car [happens to us all]. if you can't afford fixing these repairs, don't get it.

[DragonZealot]

Since you are transferring ownership you have to pass e-test. There is no repair cost limit or exemption certificate.

[Pete_Coach]

Since you are transferring ownership you have to pass e-test. There is no repair cost limit or exemption certificate.

I have tried to find that information but I cannot. A conditional pass is one which you pay for repairs but the repairs did not fix the problem, you can still drive the vehicle.
I can only find where it states that you need to take the test (on transfer of ownership) , from the Drive Clean site, "A test is required for all transfers of ownership to protect all used car buyers from facing unexpected or costly repairs to the emissions system shortly after buying a vehicle." but I cannot find where it states that the vehicle must pass for the transfer to take place.
I mean, I could buy a car that failed if I wanted to because I want to install a new engine, or I needed it for a parts car or many other reasons. I cannot find that the failure of a test means you cannot buy or sell the car.

[DragonZealot]

I have tried to find that information but I cannot. A conditional pass is one which you pay for repairs but the repairs did not fix the problem, you can still drive the vehicle.
I can only find where it states that you need to take the test (on transfer of ownership) , from the Drive Clean site, "A test is required for all transfers of ownership to protect all used car buyers from facing unexpected or costly repairs to the emissions system shortly after buying a vehicle." but I cannot find where it states that the vehicle must pass for the transfer to take place.
I mean, I could buy a car that failed if I wanted to because I want to install a new engine, or I needed it for a parts car or many other reasons. I cannot find that the failure of a test means you cannot buy or sell the car.

Just like safety cert you can still buy or sell without passing. As I said just that you can not transfer the ownership without passing. So yes, you can buy a car (that failed), install an engine, pass the test, then transfer the ownership. However the repair limit does not apply on transfer of ownership, ie, you have to fix it for the transfer.


There are several places that said your vehicle must pass for the transfer to take place.

http://www.driveclean.com/who/which_cars.html
--> Passing an emissions test is also required to transfer ownership


http://www.driveclean.com/who/frame_test_hist.html
Enter your VIN
--> Pass can be used for registration renewal or ownership transfer.
--> Conditional Pass can be used for registration renewal only.


http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/vehicle/used.htm
--> A Buyer's Checklist:
--> 11. Vehicle emissions pass report (if vehicle is registered with plates in the Drive Clean program area).

[DragonZealot]

One more advice to the OP you should get the tests done before your trip permit expires or you have to tow your vehicle for the tests.

[Siera56]

Thanks to everyone who responded

Going to get the windshield taken care of tomorow and hopefully the o2 sensor. The holiday weekend is kind of getting in the way but hopefully everything will get sorted out.

I know I need to pass the e-test to transfer, what I meant to ask was whether there were any ways to make the car pass without replacing the o2 sensor. For instance I read something on another site about something from Canadian Tire that you put in your gas tank. But I think I'll just replace the o2 sensor to simplify things.

This was a last-minute gift or I would have gotten these things taken care of in advance.

Thanks again for the help, everyone

[DragonZealot]

You should be grateful if it is just a matter of the O2 sensor and not something else. O2 sensor is only about $100 and in most cases you can replace it yourself.

Are you getting "Check Engine Light"? If yes you should get the code and take it from there rather than speculate.

If you can post the complete detail of your latest emission report, ie, limit/reading at ASM 2525 and curb idle for the 3 gases (HC, CO and NOx), folks here can help you diagnosis. You want to get it properly diagnosed rather than wasting $37.1 for the test.

Forget about those "guarantee to pass" products. They won't get a poor shape vehicle to pass. Do a serch in this forum for more info.

[Siera56]

Dragonzealot, that would be great

Here are the complete results

ASM 2525

HC ppm: limit 58; reading 96 (Fail)
CO%: limit: 0.32 reading 0.24 (pass)
NO ppm limit 435 reading 92 (pass)

Curb Idle
HC ppm: limit 200; reading 355 (Fail)
CO%: limit: 1.00 reading 1.46 (fail)
NO ppm n/a

Any advice or help with diagnosis would be greatly appreciated.

Where can I get an o2 sensor for $100 and how hard would it be to replace myself?

When this was last tested, the car's previous owner was given an estimate of $226 for the part and $100 for labour to replace o2 sensor. This was at Canadian Tire.

Thanks again and sorry if my questions seem dumb, I'm new at this :)

[Curiosity]

Don't forget you might have to pay tax depending on your circumstance...so your expenses to fix the car are just the beginning....



Retail Sales Tax
When you buy a used vehicle privately, the retail sales tax you pay is based on the purchase price or the vehicle's wholesale value, whichever is more. If the buyer paid less than the Canadian Red Book value and an appraisal supports a lower price because of the condition of the vehicle, tax is paid on the declared price or appraised value, whichever is higher. Any reduction in tax is available only when a completed appraisal is given to a licence issuer prior to changing ownership. If the transfer has been completed and tax has been paid on the average wholesale value, an appraisal must be sent in with an application for a refund to the Ministry of Finance.

Appraisal forms are available from Driver and Vehicle Licence Issuing offices and Ministry of Finance offices.

Tax Exemption
Payment of retail sales tax is not required when a vehicle is a gift and is being transferred between close family members, which only includes a spouse, parent, step-parent, grand-parent, son, daughter, grandson, step-grandson, granddaughter, step-granddaughter, son-in-law, daughter-in-law, father-in-law or mother-in-law. Only one tax-free transfer per vehicle is allowed every 12 months.

A statement sworn before a Commissioner of Oaths will be required for certain transfers, such as gifts between family members and transfers for insurance purposes. Diplomats and Status Indians who qualify will be able to complete a transfer without paying tax by simply showing their identity card.

[DragonZealot]

Yes O2 sensor failure could cause this kind of reading. If you are getting check engine light you should pull the code to confirm as failure in other parts could also cause a smiliar reading pattern. Goggle up on how to retrive code on Acura Vigors. This is an OBD-I car so you should not need a scanner to pull the codes.

You should also replace spark plugs and inspect the spark plug wires.

O2 sensors go for about $30 in ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.ca/NEW-BORG-WARNER-OXYGEN-SENSOR-1992-1994-ACURA-VIGOR_W0QQitemZ160073695230QQcategoryZ33557QQrdZ1Q QssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

If you go to local stores they should be about $100. Just check yellow pages and call around. I normally go to Newkirk Auto Parts in Rickmond hill but this may be too far away for you. IMO $226 is way overprice for one O2 sensor and labour should be about 0.3 - 0.5 hours.

[Siera56]

Hey everyone,

Just wanted to give an update. we went to get the car diagnosed today and it looks like its going to be about 2000 just to get it up to safety standards, plus the windshield, plus the O2 sensor plus the costs of the tests. So overall we're looking at about 3000 to get this car on the road. seeing as this is almost three times what the car is worth we've decided to junk it.

Thanks again for anyone who gave me any advice,

This car was given to me free so I can't complain too much, but it's taught me that I'll never buy as is.

Well I had a car for 4 days, was fun while it lasted...

[quikkid]

According to the above mentioned website, if the crack isn't in the radius of the wiper blades you should be ok. there shall be no star, stone chip or crack in the area of the windshield swept by the driver's wiper blade, that may interfere with the driver's vision;