Time To Move To A Minivan?

[Diamondog]

We have 1 daughter 8.5 months and has moved to the second stage car seat, still facing backward but not in the removable type of carseat anymore, we bring her to the car and strap her in.....we use the middle seat of the back seat....It is an absolute pain in the ass at least for me to get her in there as I am very tall not so bad for my wife but she doesn't like it too much either. Now with a 2nd baby on the way the backseat will be full. With me being very tall no car seats can go behind my seat as I have it all the way back.....sounds like time for a minivan to me but the wife says we'll manage.....arggggh!

[Toronto]

Don't do it man! It's not worth it! You'll become one of "them"

[GT108]

Once you moved into a minivan, you will wonder why you didn't do it sooner.

We switched to a minivan shortly after our 1st turned one.

Going out will no longer be a chore of wondering where to put things.
You are going to need space for two stroller or a double stoller when the second child comes. Your car trunk will be full just carrying that.

We could not have been happier with our choice of getting a minivan.

We consideredd a SUV too, but for the value, additional space, and cost of maintence, the minivan was the way to go for us.

[Shaf]

same here... we were tired of bending into the Civic to put our one yr old... then we were expecting our second one so decided to get a van... got an Odyssey... and very happy with it...no more bending and lots of space...

[DarcyC]

We had a similar discussion when we started working on baby#2. Now that she is here, we have the 2 carseats in the back of our car, one on each side. That basically fills the entire backseat. If we go for groceries and forget to take the stroller out of the trunk, we can only buy essentials or we have no room. I said we'll manage and we have, but since our car is 7+ years old, I have finally caved. My husband was originally talking minivan, but has finally decided on an 7-seat SUV. He was thinking Caravan, but discovered that he was too tall for it. Although the Outlook isn't efficient enough for that green rebate, it also doesn't qualify for the new nasty gas-guzzler tax. The payments are going to hurt though.

I didn't want to be minivan folk either, but I'm not sure that it's possible to retain all your cool, once you have 2 kids to lug around everywhere :)

[bionicbadger]

why settle for a minivan, get a full sized van. Tons of room.

though fuel efficiency isn't so good.....

[Spidey]

I was dead set against a minivan. Just because it was a minivan. Dont knwo what I was worred about.

We had 2 cars and 2 kids and then were having a third. There was just no way that would work out with 3 kids.

Upgraded in 2001 and its been great. Easy to get in out of, no more bending down. Lots of storage.

I looked at SUV's as well, but just dont have the seating capacity. We got an 8 passenger one, since if we gonna get a minivan might as well get the maximum seating,

[charliebrown]

surviving with a B200 right now :) For some reason, there arent any LATCH hooks in the rear middle seat; so we've got the rear facing car seat on the side

Trunk space easily fits an umbrella stroller + our weekly groceries & other stuff :)

[Jonavin]

We got a Honda Fit with one child coming and don't plan on a minivan unless we have a second or third child. Another friend have two kids and do fine with a compact car.

We invested in a nice light and compact folding stroller. Although it was more expensive than a large stroller, this delayed the need for a large car until later. With our Pliko P3 stroller in the trunk, there was still plenty of room for groceries in the trunk of our Honda Fit.

Unfortunately the problem I have with most minivans is that they are just too large for a family of 3 or even 4. Something like a Mazda 5, B200 or the older/smaller Honda Odyssey would be more appropriate than the larger "mini"-vans that are available these days.

I'm hoping more manufacturers offer this type of vehicle instead of building on all those compact SUVs.

With just one child, I would suggest you look at the Mazda5. It even has a sliding door like a minivan.

[Spidey]

surviving with a B200 right now :) For some reason, there arent any LATCH hooks in the rear middle seat; so we've got the rear facing car seat on the side

Trunk space easily fits an umbrella stroller + our weekly groceries & other stuff :)

Just wait till you go on a long trip that requires

playpen
big stroller
multiple suitcases
toys

:cheesygri

[Jonavin]

Just wait till you go on a long trip that requires

playpen
big stroller
multiple suitcases
toys

:cheesygri

People give the same argument about why they buy a car larger than what they need. But in reality it's a lot cheaper just to rent one when you need it, than to have the cost of the larger vehicle and extra fuel costs just so you can use it for those rare occasions.

OTOH, insurance may be cheaper on a larger vehicle. So 4 cylinder Accord/Camry may have lower total cost of ownership than a Civic/Corolla.

[Spidey]

People give the same argument about why they buy a car larger than what they need. But in reality it's a lot cheaper just to rent one when you need it, than to have the cost of the larger vehicle and extra fuel costs just so you can use it for those rare occasions.

OTOH, insurance may be cheaper on a larger vehicle. So 4 cylinder Accord/Camry may have lower total cost of ownership than a Civic/Corolla.

There no way id worry about having to "rent" a vehicle when you have kids. when you need it, you need it.

Hey kids lets go to the beach today. Oh sorry we cant, the rental place is closed.

What about middle of the nght emergencies

Post must be from someone with no children ;)

[patrob]

...I didn't want to be minivan folk either, but I'm not sure that it's possible to retain all your cool, once you have 2 kids to lug around everywhere :)

Who says you can't be cool anymore...we have a BMW X5 with 3 kids in the back :lol: :cheesygri No minivan for me...& we fit everything ok. And if we will be going on a camping trip, we just get a "cargo box carrier" that you put of the roof rack & off we go ;)

[Jonavin]

There no way id worry about having to "rent" a vehicle when you have kids. when you need it, you need it.

Hey kids lets go to the beach today. Oh sorry we cant, the rental place is closed.

What about middle of the nght emergencies

Post must be from someone with no children ;)


Well, not everybody has the luxury to go on random trips in less than a days notice. All the power to you if you if you have that kind of flexibility and free time. I can't imagine that I would ever be in a situation that a trip couldn't be planned for.

And I can't imagine what kind of real emergency it would be that I would be hulling large stuff that would require a minivan anyways. Please enlighten me.

My argument was for one or two children (like the OP), if I had 3+, a minivan is starting to look very good and probably mandatory at that point because of my dislike of SUVs. One argument FOR buying a large minivan is that it'll be (generally) much safer in a crash.

[Spidey]

Well, not everybody has the luxury to go on random trips in less than a days notice. All the power to you if you if you have that kind of flexibility and free time. I can't imagine that I would ever be in a situation that a trip couldn't be planned for.

And I can't imagine what kind of real emergency it would be that I would be hulling large stuff that would require a minivan anyways. Please enlighten me.

My argument was for one or two children (like the OP), if I had 3+, a minivan is starting to look very good and probably mandatory at that point because of my dislike of SUVs. One argument FOR buying a large minivan is that it'll be (generally) much safer in a crash.

Random trips. A trip to the beach thats 20 minutes on a Sunday afternoon away isnt something that I would call a "trip"

Hell I have to plan a trip to Calgary 3 hours away

And emergency trips, yes those are unplanned for, Hence emergencies

[Rehan]

We moved to a minivan a couple years ago in preparation for kid #3. My wife and I are both looking forward to going back to a sedan, which probably won't happen for another couple years.

Two little ones were fine in our Mazda Protege (and I like to have the driver seat all the way back, too), but we had only one of them that was rear facing at the time. With two in rear facing car seats, it would've been impossible.

[DarcyC]

If only I could afford a BMW X5 :)

People sure are opinionated about what we are hauling around in our vehicles. We had to make 2 trips at Christmas so that we could take my mother over to our other relatives - can't fit her and the 2 kids in the car. We couldn't stop in to visit our friends while picking up my mother for the same reason. To everyone, I say get whatever you want, it's your buck!

[Spidey]

That was another reason we got on to. because of the extra people. Even an SUV that seats just 5. If your in the age group with kids you have firiends that have them as well. theres always extra passengers it seems.

Not all the time, but enough for sure. Your kids have one of their friends over and you have to take them as well. or grandma and grandpa visit.

Saves the taking the 2 vehcile thing all the time

[Bullseye]

We have two under two with a 2nd gen Rav4 (smaller than new one), so far so good. My biggest reservation about a minivan is fuel economy, I like that we have a useful vehicle with great gas mileage. A minivan would mean a big increase in gas costs for us.

[shoppingmama]

Well I'm a proud minivan driver :D I have had 3 minivans in the past 8 years and I'm sorry with kids and friends it's the only way to go for us!

[djjosee]

That was another reason we got on to. because of the extra people. Even an SUV that seats just 5. If your in the age group with kids you have firiends that have them as well. theres always extra passengers it seems.

Not all the time, but enough for sure. Your kids have one of their friends over and you have to take them as well. or grandma and grandpa visit.

Saves the taking the 2 vehcile thing all the time

BINGO!

Or even taking out the seats to put adults in the back in -30 degree weather :mad:

[mrcantrell]

We're driving around in an 04 Corolla right now, which has enough room in the trunk for a pliko P3 and a regular grocery run plus some room in the back seat since there's only one kid and she's in the center still. However, when our lease is up next year we will be either in a Sienna or a Rav4.

Personally I'm leaning to the Sienna cause I like the toys, but the wife has the minivan stigma. I don't understand it, you've got kids, a minivan is practical, where's the issue? It's a vehicle!!

Anyhoo, with plans for #2 during the life of the next car we'll definitely need to go bigger than a sedan.

[phildc]

It really depends on the amount of passengers you'll carry, we have 2 mid-sized sedans(family of four) and it served us well for the past 7 years (eldest). It's a nice option to have a few extra passengers when you go out or even pick up kids from their activities. Our next vehicle will probably be a minivan or at least a 7 passenger vehicle.

[misterDuck]

My wife and I had Twins last year and we went through the exact same process as we owned a toyota Matrix ( which we loved)
We decided to keep it for the full year maternity ( our only car) as it was fully paid off and we did not want the extra expense.
Once we put in the backward facing seats ( one behind each seat) I could never sit in the passenger seat and barely squeeze in the front seat ( I am 6 '3 and 220 pounds)
With the double stroller ( we also bought a slim double Maclaren twin techno) in the back of the car, any trips to the airport or for groceries were a test of my packing skills

When ever the grandparents flew in, we were limited to staying within the neighborhood or renting a car.

In December we decided enough was enough and starting shopping for a larger vechicle.

Personally I'm leaning to the Sienna cause I like the toys, but the wife has the minivan stigma. I don't understand it, you've got kids, a minivan is practical, where's the issue? It's a vehicle!!

This was my opinion as well. But my wife was admanant we look at something else. We checked out a few SUVs but the gas miliage drove me batty. I wanted to buy a Sienna, but my wife was very anti- minivan .
We eventually settled on the Ford Freestyle, A seven passenger CUV..( kind of a large stationwagon/SUV)
The third row of seats folds down for plenty of grocery room and I have even hauled lumber from home depot back. When the 3rd row is in use, the back well leaves enough room for luggage and the stroller.
So far we love it. Our only worry is the fact it is a domestic vechicle but I think it is going work out as we hope to keep the vechicle long enough to ride out any depreciation. Eventually we will need a second car as well, so I think a smaller car ( our beloved Matrix) will be the choice then.

Its gas miliage is the same as a Dodge Caravan, and looks very SUV like so my wife is very happy.

If your wife is crazy anti-minivan ( like mine) this car/CUV could be a decent option.

[raptorfan]

I had the "one of them" uncool stigma (still do) :) but once you have one it is nice to have the space. Actually when they were small, the car, '95 Corolla, worked fine for us. It's been since last year we got one and it's been very useful. My kids are 11 & 4 and between hauling snowboard gear, (for both of them!)camping, and driving my son & his friends around, long drives, it's become a necessity. Also we can finally bring Grandma out with us too. Plus it keeps them apart so now no more "he/she is on my side, bugging me" etc.

(Unfortunately the piece of crap has been in the shop too many times to count, but that's a different story! GRRR :cheesygri )

As long as there's room, SUV, minivan, station wagon, (and can haul a tent trailer) it's all good to me. But I do prefer to drive the car.

[crikey]

We eventually settled on the Ford Freestyle, An eight passenger CUV..( kind of a large stationwagon/SUV)

Good Choice, IMO.

[CSK'sMom]

When the time comes to replace our minivan we'll take a serious look at the Freestyle. We find we actually have to get more "stuff" from place to place as our kids get older. Hockey equipment (1 player, 1 goalie), snowboards, etc., it all adds up...

[djjosee]

Speeking of minvans ... I saw an ad on the tube the other night that the two seat in the middle can swivel and face the back/back seats, you can even put a table between the four seats! Must admit, it looked cool >:( Does anybody know the vehicle in question?

[bubble.tea]

It makes a difference if you have a small vehicle with a SMALL ass trunk. We had a Regal. OH BABY...you could shove 2 Adult bodies in the back and have room for a stroller, suitcase, and a light shopping trip to Costco. That thing ROCKS.

My dad has been bugging me about upgrading to a van, and you know what., He finally did it FOR us. lol. he repo'd my Regal., and dumped us with a 8.5/10 '03 Odyssey. So much more room. Not NEARLY as luxurious the features as the Regal had., but hey., it was bound to happen, and a free upgrade doesn't hurt. I had to go and buy a couple things (the main one was a Car Charge Splitter so that wifey and myself could plug in our cellphones to charge simultaneously....yes the Regal had DUAL ports RIGHT in the front...VERY SWEET.

Trunk Space is huge., fold-down third row is tight., and and and and....it's just relieving to have a van now.

...You'll become one of "them"
hehe...I tried as hard as I could to post-pone it. Nearly 3 years...but I couldn't pass up a free van.

Who says you can't be cool anymore...we have a BMW X5 with 3 kids in the back :lol: :cheesygri No minivan for me...& we fit everything ok. And if we will be going on a camping trip, we just get a "cargo box carrier" that you put of the roof rack & off we go ;)
okay, YOU can go and sit in the corner by yourself and THINK about learning a thing or two about being humble ;).

Lucky Bastard!!!

[bubble.tea]

oh., PS nice to see a number more parents in this forum from Ottawa.

anybody up for a family day Easter week-end? A trip to Cosmic Adventures? We could get a SWEET group discount?

I've got 18month old and a 3 and a 1/4 yr old?? Shall I start a thread here?

[misterDuck]

When the time comes to replace our minivan we'll take a serious look at the Freestyle. We find we actually have to get more "stuff" from place to place as our kids get older. Hockey equipment (1 player, 1 goalie), snowboards, etc., it all adds up...

Hopefully you will like it as much as we do.

If you are looking for tons of customer opinion on the Freestyle ( it will be renamed next year as the Ford Tauraus X) check out this site

http://www.myfordfreestyle.com/index.php

I tend to research things to death, and when it came time to buy I found quite a few of my questions answered on this site.

[DarcyC]

Speeking of minvans ... I saw an ad on the tube the other night that the two seat in the middle can swivel and face the back/back seats, you can even put a table between the four seats! Must admit, it looked cool >:( Does anybody know the vehicle in question?

I didn't see the commercial, but it sounds like it is the Grand Caravan. The swivelling seats are new for the 2008 models. We checked out the 2007 model at the Ottawa Auto Show and there were no swivel seats. My husband really wanted to check them out. After getting a good look, he decided that he wasn't too keen on the Caravan after all. He bought a Saturn Outlook last night - feels like a minivan inside, looks like a SUV on the outside, and handles like a car, or so I am told. :) I'm sure that it will be good, I just dread the payments.

[mrcantrell]

I just dread the payments.

We all do, that's why we're at RFD :)

I'm scared because the Sienna is more than double the monthly payments of my current Corolla. Eep. At least by that time the mat leave will be over.

[NorthYorker]

I can't stop enjoying this whole "stigma" talk associated with minivans? Why? Because in my (Russian) community minivan commands more prestige than most compacts and family sedans. SUVs enjoy very mixed reputation. Some people love them, some people associate them with collective farms' directors on the shopping trip to nearest town (basically NA hillibilly image) or criminal "new riches". of post-communist era. So I guess it's really in the eyes of beholder :)

[3weddings]

Who says you can't be cool anymore...we have a BMW X5 with 3 kids in the back :lol: :cheesygri No minivan for me...& we fit everything ok. And if we will be going on a camping trip, we just get a "cargo box carrier" that you put of the roof rack & off we go ;)

I miss my baby....like I would miss my real babies!! I had three in car seats in it!! and I NEVER complained!!

When the lease expired, dh pushed me into a Crapacura...I came to like it, but it wasn't my X5!!! >:( , when that lease expired last summer we entered in the freaky world of Minivans as we were going to Ottawa regularly and needed the space...that is the ONLY time I like the stupid thing. Would I dream of renting one for the space, hell NO....esp with the miles I'd put on it.

To boot the Montana is worse on gas than the other two!!! I pride myself on attaining good fuel economy, but this piece of crap gets me about 13.2l/100kms versus the 12.0 l/100 in the SUVs!!

It does sound to me like you need the convenience of the sliding doors, or at least more room behind the driver's seat, but I wouldn't go the Minivan route....not yet...not until you're lugging hockey equipment etc:D

[kohnan]

Speeking of minvans ... I saw an ad on the tube the other night that the two seat in the middle can swivel and face the back/back seats, you can even put a table between the four seats! Must admit, it looked cool >:( Does anybody know the vehicle in question?

That's the new Dodge Grand Caravan. I've read about it but haven't seen it in action yet. I heard they did away with the stow and go seating (a great feature I like in our Grand Caravan) in favour of the swivel seats. Sounds cool. If you were doing a road trip with the guys you could play Euchre or poker during the drive. Well maybe not poker as the chips would go everywhere when you take a corner too fast. :-)

[Jonavin]

That's the new Dodge Grand Caravan. I've read about it but haven't seen it in action yet. I heard they did away with the stow and go seating (a great feature I like in our Grand Caravan) in favour of the swivel seats. Sounds cool. If you were doing a road trip with the guys you could play Euchre or poker during the drive. Well maybe not poker as the chips would go everywhere when you take a corner too fast. :-)

Are you even legally allowed to operate the vehicle with passengers facing the "wrong way", infant child seat notwithstanding.

[kaimui22]

when i was pregnant we drove a bimmer
but with my husband quite tall it was almost impossible to fit a car seat in the back...and we tried to fit a graco stroller and it ALMOST didn't fit in the trunk

so we traded it in for a SUV...SO MUCH better!
my side of the family is kinda short/tiny so its hard for us to get into the car (we have to 'climb') but its great trunk space and people can finally sit in the back with a baby seat!

we considered the benz B200 but we found it too crowded in the front...its great trunk space but like the bimmer, we found the seats crowded

[patrob]

I miss my baby....like I would miss my real babies!! I had three in car seats in it!! and I NEVER complained!!

When the lease expired, dh pushed me into a Crapacura...I came to like it, but it wasn't my X5!!! >:( , when that lease expired last summer we entered in the freaky world of Minivans as we were going to Ottawa regularly and needed the space...that is the ONLY time I like the stupid thing. Would I dream of renting one for the space, hell NO....esp with the miles I'd put on it.

To boot the Montana is worse on gas than the other two!!! I pride myself on attaining good fuel economy, but this piece of crap gets me about 13.2l/100kms versus the 12.0 l/100 in the SUVs!!

It does sound to me like you need the convenience of the sliding doors, or at least more room behind the driver's seat, but I wouldn't go the Minivan route....not yet...not until you're lugging hockey equipment etc:D

It would be nice to have a sliding door that opens by remote control when you are coming out of the store...but I can live without it if it means keeping my sexy X5 :lol:

[volan]

I just got back from "pulling the trigger" on a minivan purchase.
I got a 2007 Honda Odyssey.

We decided on a minivan for 2 major reasons:
1) sliding doors - no more little kid opening the door and hitting another car...Or himself.
2) Seats are higher than a regular car so putting a baby in and out is easier on the back.

[Ayla500]

we just got a 2007 civic 4door nad have 3 kids. 2 in booster one out of seats. Plenty of rom.
Just upgraded from a 991 VW golf. Now that was crampped!!

[gman]

OP needs a minivan. End of story.

For a tall driver with 2 small kids, you have to have minivan. A full size car cannot cut it. Why? It is not because they won't fit with car seats. It is because they kept on kicking the back of my seat. They did not even do that intentionally. They just wanted to move their legs and bang.

[patrob]

...okay, YOU can go and sit in the corner by yourself and THINK about learning a thing or two about being humble ;).

Lucky Bastard!!!

I know, I know... :lol: :cheesygri

[bubble.tea]

we just got a 2007 civic 4door nad have 3 kids. 2 in booster one out of seats. Plenty of rom.
Just upgraded from a 991 VW golf. Now that was crampped!!
WHAT THUgh....???? is this your MAIN vehicle? And you each carry ONE set of change clothes and that's it?

amazing.
I know, I know... :lol: :cheesygri

hmm....seemingly you don't.;)

[gman]

we just got a 2007 civic 4door nad have 3 kids. 2 in booster one out of seats. Plenty of rom.
Just upgraded from a 991 VW golf. Now that was crampped!!

I guess you have a "small size" family. I had a 4 door civic too and 2 kids (not 3). I had problem before they were on booster.

"Ough! I said no kicking."

[mark_in_2k]

A good alternative to a minivan would be the Mazda5. When my wife and I got married we said we'd never have a minivan, and when we took a Mazda5 for a test drive a year ago, we thought it was a great alternative.

It's much better looking than any minivan, has sliding doors, and a 3rd row of seating if needed.

We haven't bought one as we only have a 2 week old son, but once we saw the 5, we knew that's the car we'd have when the sproglets arrived.

[gman]

A good alternative to a minivan would be the Mazda5. When my wife and I got married we said we'd never have a minivan, and when we took a Mazda5 for a test drive a year ago, we thought it was a great alternative.

It's much better looking than any minivan, has sliding doors, and a 3rd row of seating if needed.

We haven't bought one as we only have a 2 week old son, but once we saw the 5, we knew that's the car we'd have when the sproglets arrived.

Our sales manager bought a Mazda5 and according to her, it has endless problem.

[Diamondog]

A good alternative to a minivan would be the Mazda5. When my wife and I got married we said we'd never have a minivan, and when we took a Mazda5 for a test drive a year ago, we thought it was a great alternative.

It's much better looking than any minivan, has sliding doors, and a 3rd row of seating if needed.

We haven't bought one as we only have a 2 week old son, but once we saw the 5, we knew that's the car we'd have when the sproglets arrived.


Hmmm not into station wagons.

[poedua]

I miss my baby....like I would miss my real babies!! I had three in car seats in it!! and I NEVER complained!!

When the lease expired, dh pushed me into a Crapacura...I came to like it, but it wasn't my X5!!! >:( , when that lease expired last summer we entered in the freaky world of Minivans as we were going to Ottawa regularly and needed the space...that is the ONLY time I like the stupid thing. Would I dream of renting one for the space, hell NO....esp with the miles I'd put on it.

To boot the Montana is worse on gas than the other two!!! I pride myself on attaining good fuel economy, but this piece of crap gets me about 13.2l/100kms versus the 12.0 l/100 in the SUVs!!

It does sound to me like you need the convenience of the sliding doors, or at least more room behind the driver's seat, but I wouldn't go the Minivan route....not yet...not until you're lugging hockey equipment etc:D

Well, I had 4 kids and we're on our third mini-van now - first was a Caravan ( never again ) and next 2 were Honda Odysseys.

Our approach in buying a mini-van was that we're not buying the van just for our 4 kids. I read an article sonewhere that said you don't buy a mini-van for " self " reasons but rather for " other " reasons - in other words you're buying it for more than 2 adults and even 10 or 15 kids or more. You're buying it for the kids in our neighbourhood, church, athletic teams etc. etc. I tend to agree.

So, the key issues in looking at a vehicle for us was to start at looking from the vehicle from the inside out first in terms of practicality, saftey, etc. on the needs we had - i.e saftey, cargo space, passenger capacity, how easy can grandparents get in and out, overall interior functionality etc. etc. And that was key - to buy a vehicle from the inside out first. Functionality over oustide appearance carried more weight with us than anything else - but that was just us.

- Is a SUV more " sexy " than a mini-van ? Absolutley. But my family, friends and kids didn't need " sexy ".

- Is an SUV better equipped to go " off road " than a mini-van ? Absolutley. But my family, friends and kids didn't need the ability to go " off road ".

- Does an SUV like a Audi Q7, BMW X5, Mercedes GL, Range Rover, Lexus LX offer the best in performance and luxury ? Absolutley. Again, my family, friends and kids didn't need any of that - tho I sure did !!!:)

In my view, I think a ( luxury ) SUV is primarily an image vehicle that, first and foremost, says something about your lifestyle. Then again, so does my mini-van - it says I have kids. :)

[bubble.tea]

.... Then again, so does my mini-van - it says I have kids. :)

Say it LOUD...and say it PROUD.

I AM...A PARENT!!!! :D








scary. look at that. we're both parents, honda odyssey drivers, and both have 8800 posts WOW.

[3weddings]

Then again, so does my mini-van - it says I have kids. :)

To me it says I wanted a LZR CRZR for the time being because:

it's saving me $$ for my next house
I needed more space for the kids to throw their crap
my neighbours can't afford to not work so I have to drive their lazy ass kids to school
the kids were begging for a DVD player...and it's good because now I don't have to hear are we there yet
I want to be viewed just like all the other moms out there
I don't have the creativity or bank account to be different


I hate them...hate what they stand for....how they are perceived ....THEY ARE FUGLY from the front bumper to the rear...their mileage SUCKS as bad as the luxury SUV's....the make me part of the general consensus...which I have never been and refuse to be....they have been marketed to make us believe that they are the next step.

How did I end up in a LZR CRZR....a moment of weakness because I wanted expensive appliances for the house we're building and one year's lease payments are allowing me to buy just those!!! I've almost done my year and you bet I am looking at my luxure SUV....Just because I have kids doesn't mean I have to give up on being ME...I use it to drive them around, not they me!:cheesygri

[poedua]

To me it says I wanted a LZR CRZR for the time being because:

it's saving me $$ for my next house
I needed more space for the kids to throw their crap
my neighbours can't afford to not work so I have to drive their lazy ass kids to school
the kids were begging for a DVD player...and it's good because now I don't have to hear are we there yet
I want to be viewed just like all the other moms out there
I don't have the creativity or bank account to be different


I hate them...hate what they stand for....how they are perceived ....THEY ARE FUGLY from the front bumper to the rear...their mileage SUCKS as bad as the luxury SUV's....the make me part of the general consensus...which I have never been and refuse to be....they have been marketed to make us believe that they are the next step.

How did I end up in a LZR CRZR....a moment of weakness because I wanted expensive appliances for the house we're building and one year's lease payments are allowing me to buy just those!!! I've almost done my year and you bet I am looking at my luxure SUV....Just because I have kids doesn't mean I have to give up on being ME...I use it to drive them around, not they me!:cheesygri

Well, if the key issues important to you on deciding on a family vehicle include " I " and " me " wants ...then by all means, I think you should get yourself a luxury SUV - if an SUV meets those sort of " I " and " me " wants.

And that said, as far as most of these fancy shmancy SUV's go, I have similar feelings as you do " I hate them...hate what they stand for....how they are perceived ....THEY ARE FUGLY from the front bumper to the rear...their mileage SUCKS " and " they have been marketed to make us believe " that they fit a typical growing family with kids. Frankly, I think monster SUV's like Hummers, Expeditions, Escalades, Excursions, Navigators, Land Cruisers, Sequoias etc. etc. are particularly disgusting.

As I said before, I think a ( luxury ) SUV is primarily an image vehicle with a " self " focus IMO - an image that says something about one's lifestyle. I simply put less importance on appearence and image, and more on functionality - but that's just me. :)

The thing is, you love SUV's and you want one for your own reasons important to you - that's all that counts.

[patrob]

...I hate them...hate what they stand for....how they are perceived ....THEY ARE FUGLY from the front bumper to the rear...their mileage SUCKS as bad as the luxury SUV's....the make me part of the general consensus...which I have never been and refuse to be....they have been marketed to make us believe that they are the next step.

How did I end up in a LZR CRZR....a moment of weakness because I wanted expensive appliances for the house we're building and one year's lease payments are allowing me to buy just those!!! I've almost done my year and you bet I am looking at my luxure SUV....Just because I have kids doesn't mean I have to give up on being ME...I use it to drive them around, not they me!:cheesygri

Thank you...I 100% agree :D

Go Luxury SUV's - No minivans for us :!: :lol:

[bubble.tea]

To me it says I wanted a LZR CRZR .........THEY ARE FUGLY .......

Being moto (cellphone) lover., I'm trying to understand if this is the KRZR model or what?

also...I never took you for one to use the adjective FUGLY...weird.

[Bullseye]

Have to agree 100% with Poedua here, the only reason to drive an X5 or similar is for image reasons. You care more about what people think of you than you do about utility and convienence. The post above by 3weddings where she mentions several times with disdain peoples financial abilities who can't afford one is very telling about your typical 'I am better than you' attitude held by such people. That's what it's all about when you buy such a vehicle, trying to send a message that you are better than the minivan driving masses.

The bit about how an SUV somehow distunguishes you and shows your independant streak is particularly revealing.

[poedua]

Have to agree 100% with Poedua here, the only reason to drive an X5 or similar is for image reasons. You care more about what people think of you than you do about utility and convienence. The post above by 3weddings where she mentions several times with disdain peoples financial abilities who can't afford one is very telling about your typical 'I am better than you' attitude held by such people. That's what it's all about when you buy such a vehicle, trying to send a message that you are better than the minivan driving masses.

The bit about how an SUV somehow distunguishes you and shows your independant streak is particularly revealing.

Well said.....I couldn't agree with you more.

( re: the X5.....I could go into what some of my friends think the " BMW " acronym REALLY stands for - but I'll pass - I wouldn't want to offend any of the BMW lovers out there :) )

[patrob]

Have to agree 100% with Poedua here, the only reason to drive an X5 or similar is for image reasons. You care more about what people think of you than you do about utility and convienence. The post above by 3weddings where she mentions several times with disdain peoples financial abilities who can't afford one is very telling about your typical 'I am better than you' attitude held by such people. That's what it's all about when you buy such a vehicle, trying to send a message that you are better than the minivan driving masses.

The bit about how an SUV somehow distunguishes you and shows your independant streak is particularly revealing.

The reason someone buys an X5 is because they appreciate fine things & has a passion for driving. Is there something wrong with that? NO. If they can afford one & work hard for it - why not:!: I never liked the way "minivans" looked & just because you have kids does not mean they are the only transportation vehicle to have. I don't drive my friends or neighbours & don't have hockey equipment to carry...so why would I need a "Mini Bus".

For those that bought a Honda Oddesey why not a Kia Sedona which is much cheaper vs. the most expensive minivan Oddesey or a Sienna? It also says something about you since you want something better to drive? Same reason I got an X5 vs. a Hyundai Santa Fe... Don't judge a book by it's cover, just because I have an X5 I also have a mortgage & bills to pay just like everyone else...I've always been a car fanatic & just because we have kids, does not mean I have to buy a minivan!

I am also a parent with 3 kids & I don't need a MINIVAN:!: :!: :!:

[Bullseye]

The reason someone buys an X5 is because they appreciate fine things & has a passion for driving. Is there something wrong with that? NO.

Really, I think if we needed any more evidence of the 'image buy' status of BMW, we need only look at your own avatar. For you, it's not enough to merely drive a BMW so you can be seen in it in 'real life', you also must advertise online to everyone that you own one by displaying it in every post.

Sort of like how 3Weddings has mentioned her (past) ownership of the X5 countless times on this board, luxury brand owners always want everyone to know about it.

In reality, I think such brands have lost their elite status to some degree with the widespread adoption of leasing. Anyone with even a fairly modest job can now lease (ie. rent) a luxury vehicle, I have several friends who make sacrifices in other parts of their lives to stretch into the lease payment for a luxury brand to show others that they have arrived. These are also the most insecure people I know, their self confidence is directly tied to the material things they own and the image that projects to others.

[sdm242]

We have 1 daughter 8.5 months and has moved to the second stage car seat, still facing backward but not in the removable type of carseat anymore, we bring her to the car and strap her in.....we use the middle seat of the back seat....It is an absolute pain in the ass at least for me to get her in there as I am very tall not so bad for my wife but she doesn't like it too much either. Now with a 2nd baby on the way the backseat will be full. With me being very tall no car seats can go behind my seat as I have it all the way back.....sounds like time for a minivan to me but the wife says we'll manage.....arggggh!

I would imagine that by the time your 2nd baby is born, your oldest child would be close to moving into a forward facing seat. Once that happens, a forward-facing carseat should be able to fit behind the driver's seat, even with the driver's seat put all the way back (because the forward-facing seat should take up less room than a backward facing one). Then the infant's seat could go in the middle (safest, if it fits with the other carseat) or on the passenger side.

[poedua]

The reason someone buys an X5 is because they appreciate fine things & has a passion for driving. Is there something wrong with that? NO. If they can afford one & work hard for it - why not:!:

Well, to some, affordability isn't the issue. I could go out and quite easily pay cash for 4 or 5 X5's tomorrow if I wanted to. Affordability isn't the issue for me, but that's besides the point, I simply choose not to buy an X5 cause it's a stupid idea to get one IMO - I bought 3 used ( but virtually new ) mini-vans instead for my family over the years instead cause that is what made sense to us. The issue to some people is matching what they think is the best fit for their family's needs - and not their personal needs. My folks and kids don't have " a passion for driving ". I do - but what " I want " isn't the priority right now for our family.

I never liked the way "minivans" looked

Funny that, I feel the same way about the way SUVs " looked " - they look ugly IMO.

& just because you have kids does not mean they are the only transportation vehicle to have. I don't drive my friends or neighbours & don't have hockey equipment to carry...so why would I need a "Mini Bus".

No one said they were the " only " vehicle at all.

We drive friends, neighbours, grandparents, cousins, team mates, class mates etc. etc. - but that's just us. We offer to do it - and we actually enjoy doing it too. Seems you can't or simply don't want to. Perhaps that speaks for itself.

For those that bought a Honda Oddesey why not a Kia Sedona which is much cheaper vs. the most expensive minivan Oddesey or a Sienna?

Friends had horror stories with Kia's and the cheapest used deal I could find for the mileage was an Odyssey - both times. Sienna is good too...almost the same as an Odyssey IMO. I would have gone with a Sienna too.

It also says something about you since you want something better to drive?

For our needs, I don't think an X5 is any " better " than a Sienna or an Odyssey for what my kids and others need - if anything, it's " worse ".


Same reason I got an X5 vs. a Hyundai Santa Fe... Don't judge a book by it's cover, just because I have an X5 I also have a mortgage & bills to pay just like everyone else...I've always been a car fanatic & just because we have kids, does not mean I have to buy a minivan!

Correct, YOU have always been a " car fanatic " - me too. But now I have kids and my priorities have changed...my desire to satisfy my " car fanatic " needs are very low on my list of priorities...very low. But that's just me.

I am also a parent with 3 kids & I don't need a MINIVAN:!: :!: :!:

Big font eh ? Nice touch...and very impressive looking. Big honking X5 SUV - now, big font. .

Too funny !

[shoppingmama]

Based on what we have seen, our lease in up early next year, we'll be getting the 2008 Dodge Grand Caravan...they look great!

[bubble.tea]

The reason someone buys an X5 is because they appreciate fine things & has a passion for driving.....

Um...might want to include in there...."and chooses to direct that kind of money into buying/insuring/fuelling and maintaining it"

[patrob]

Well, to some, affordability isn't the issue. I could go out and quite easily pay cash for 4 or 5 X5's tomorrow if I wanted to. Affordability isn't the issue for me, but that's besides the point, I simply choose not to buy an X5 cause it's a stupid idea to get one IMO - I bought 3 used ( but virtually new ) mini-vans instead for my family over the years instead cause that is what made sense to us. The issue to some people is matching what they think is the best fit for their family's needs - and not their personal needs. My folks and kids don't have " a passion for driving ". I do - but what " I want " isn't the priority right now for our family.

So you have your opinion & I have mine. When I bought my X5, we only had 1 child...then we had Twins & I saw no need to suddenly switch to a minivan because I "should". All I am saying is that it works for us & other cars work for other people. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but you don't have to try put down other people because you disagree. The reason I bought my X5 is because of the safety record, performance & overall feel.

Funny that, I feel the same way about the way SUVs " looked " - they look ugly IMO.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I wonder why have the sales of minivans gone down in the recent years...it must be because of all these "ugly" SUV's people are buying...:rolleyes:

We drive friends, neighbours, grandparents, cousins, team mates, class mates etc. etc. - but that's just us. We offer to do it - and we actually enjoy doing it too. Seems you can't or simply don't want to. Perhaps that speaks for itself.

That is your choice & nobody disputes that. Many SUV's have the option of 7 seats, same as a minivan.

For our needs, I don't think an X5 is any " better " than a Sienna or an Odyssey for what my kids and others need - if anything, it's " worse ".

Exactly, for your needs. Everyone has different needs...

Correct, YOU have always been a " car fanatic " - me too. But now I have kids and my priorities have changed...my desire to satisfy my " car fanatic " needs are very low on my list of priorities...very low. But that's just me.

Who says your passion for cars has to change because you have kids... Kids are also a priority for me & I feel I can have both - my X5 & my kids in the back & plenty of room for groceries ;)

Big font eh ? Nice touch...and very impressive looking. Big honking X5 SUV - now, big font.

You noticed...;) X5 is not a honking big SUV like a Cadillac Escalade... Plus my avatar does not advertise I drive an X5...it's just a logo ...

[patrob]

Um...might want to include in there...."and chooses to direct that kind of money into buying/insuring/fuelling and maintaining it"

Actually my insurace is about $112/mth. for full coverage, much cheaper than some Honda Civic owners & fuel is pretty similar to a minivan. Maintenance for the first 3 years was included by the manufacturer...the rest is slightly more expensive but I am willing to pay that.

[bubble.tea]

Actually my insurace is about $112/mth. for full coverage, much cheaper than some Honda Civic owners & fuel is pretty similar to a minivan. Maintenance for the first 3 years was included by the manufacturer...the rest is slightly more expensive but I am willing to pay that.

You're comparing 22yr old Male Honda Civic driver insurance profiles with 30+ married (PARENT IE assuming responsible (I have the best rating..I'm told) adults?...and the reason is....?

NO WAY!!! You had the first 3 years warantee Maintenance service included from BMW???? WOW :rolleyes:.

[bubble.tea]

Furthermore, I don't know why this has turned into such a debate.

Room Space is just no comparison between SUVs, and Vans...UNLESS you have an Uber Commercial Weight SUV, Tahoe,Expedition., etc etc. Otherwise, the practicality and FUNCTIONALITY of an SUV inherently have their limitations compared with a Van. IT's a closed debate.

It's all about the look, and feel. I guarantee you, if I CHOOSE to afford a nice SUV I'd do it...but I choose to spend my money elsewhere...like on my new Canon S3IS that's coming in at nearly 50% retail from Bay :).

[poedua]

So you have your opinion & I have mine. When I bought my X5, we only had 1 child...then we had Twins & I saw no need to suddenly switch to a minivan because I "should"..

No one said you " should " switch , but for my family art least, getting a X5 - or any SUV for that matter - would just be a stupid thing to do. Even if it wasn't a family issue, I wouldn't be caught dead in one of these stupid SUV's.

All I am saying is that it works for us & other cars work for other people. .

Fair enough

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but you don't have to try put down other people because you disagree. The reason I bought my X5 is because of the safety record, performance & overall feel.

Frankly, I couldn't care less what vehicle you haul your 3 kids around in. But, as a general rule, I think SUV's are poor options for vehicles for anyone, but for a family with 3 kids ( which I was at one time ) - even more so. That is my opinion - I think SUVs are stupid vehicles. And, there is no way a SUV would make any sense for my family ( with our lifestyle ) in a million years, when there are more sensible options available.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Well, my kids and family couldn't care less about " beauty " or " image " - we need a vehicle that " works " - we favour functionality and practicality over " show ( beauty ) ". Your family, however, may be different.


I wonder why have the sales of minivans gone down in the recent years...it must be because of all these "ugly" SUV's people are buying...:rolleyes:

Doesn't warrant any further comment - beyond saying, that's just simplistic and misguided reasoning.

That is your choice & nobody disputes that. Many SUV's have the option of 7 seats, same as a minivan.

So what ? What is your point ? That an SUV is just as functional as a mini-van because it seats 7 ?

Exactly, for your needs. Everyone has different needs....

Correct, some of us have " needs " of safety & cargo room etc. etc. ........and some people have " beauty" or " image " needs.


Who says your passion for cars has to change because you have kids..

The passion doesn't change , the need to immediately satisfy that passion does however - other " needs " need to be satisfied first - at least in our family. Delayed gratification of " preceived needs " - it's something I try and tell my kids is a part of becoming mature.


. Kids are also a priority for me & I feel I can have both - my X5 & my kids in the back & plenty of room for groceries ;)

Of course you can.



.You noticed...;) X5 is not a honking big SUV like a Cadillac Escalade... Plus my avatar does not advertise I drive an X5...it's just a logo ...

Semantics.

After reading your comments, the reason your ' BMW " avatar " is there is intuitively self-evident - at least to me.

[patrob]

Furthermore, I don't know why this has turned into such a debate.

Room Space is just no comparison between SUVs, and Vans...UNLESS you have an Uber Commercial Weight SUV, Tahoe,Expedition., etc etc. Otherwise, the practicality and FUNCTIONALITY of an SUV inherently have their limitations compared with a Van. IT's a closed debate.

It's all about the look, and feel. I guarantee you, if I CHOOSE to afford a nice SUV I'd do it...but I choose to spend my money elsewhere...like on my new Canon S3IS that's coming in at nearly 50% retail from Bay :).

Nobody is debating that an SUV has more space than a minivan since the minivan wins obviously... Just pointing out that you can comfortably have kids without a minivan. Some have turned it into a debate for whatever reason...

[patrob]

No one said you " should " switch , but for my family art least, getting a X5 - or any SUV for that matter - would just be a stupid thing to do. Even if it wasn't a family issue, I wouldn't be caught dead in one of these stupid SUV's.

Fair enough

Frankly, I couldn't care less what vehicle you haul your 3 kids around in. But, as a general rule, I think SUV's are poor options for vehicles for anyone, but for a family with 3 kids ( which I was at one time ) - even more so. That is my opinion - I think SUVs are stupid vehicles. And, there is no way a SUV would make any sense for my family ( with our lifestyle ) in a million years, when there are more sensible options available.

Well, my kids and family couldn't care less about " beauty " or " image " - we need a vehicle that " works " - we favour functionality and practicality over " show ( beauty ) ". Your family, however, may be different.

Doesn't warrant any further comment - beyond saying, that's just simplistic and misguided reasoning.

So what ? What is your point ? That an SUV is just as functional as a mini-van because it seats 7 ?

Correct, some of us have " needs " of safety & cargo room etc. etc. ........and some people have " beauty" or " image " needs.

The passion doesn't change , the need to immediately satisfy that passion does however - other " needs " need to be satisfied first - at least in our family. Delayed gratification of " preceived needs " - it's something I try and tell my kids is a part of becoming mature.

No point in arguing anymore, since this can go on forever. You like A & I like B & others like C.

[3weddings]

I have taken every comment to heart.....and although I am not one to debate, I would like to make my comments as I feel my personality and views have been addressed here.

We chose the X5 because it came back off lease after 3 months and it was a killer deal for us....my insurance actually went down $100 per annum, and the mileage was incredible! The second SUV also became available off lease early and again we took advantage and again the mileage considering it was supposed to be a gas guzzler was equal to the other. My insurance didn't change at all (likely because I had 22 years of driving under my belt at this point in time)


I am sitting here wondering to myself why I am actually validating my choice in vehicle shaking my head. Bottom line is, it's preference I was commenting on, not social status! We made out choices because WE felt the vehicles met our every need one of the being that it made us different from the crowd (and a hell of a lot easier to find my car in a parking lot..;) )

Nothing I commented on was to insult or negate someone elses opinion, it was to establish my thoughts on the topic at hand. I too am a parent, that doesn't mean I have to fall into 'that' category' does it? We've all read the comments from the younger RFDers about soccer moms and 'those' moms!!! Not me...not in a heartbeat!


also...I never took you for one to use the adjective FUGLY...weird.

Not weird.....I am a HUGE Howard Stern Fan, and those words will come out of my mouth occasionally!!! (amongst others!! ;) )

Have to agree 100% with Poedua here, the only reason to drive an X5 or similar is for image reasons. You care more about what people think of you than you do about utility and convienence. The post above by 3weddings where she mentions several times with disdain peoples financial abilities who can't afford one is very telling about your typical 'I am better than you' attitude held by such people. That's what it's all about when you buy such a vehicle, trying to send a message that you are better than the minivan driving masses.

I have commented on the vehicle in posts that pertained to good value/quality vehicles...how on earth that could come back and bite me in the behind is beyond me!! But I see it did. The 'disdain' is not geared towards others but it's my personal opinion of the badly manufactured albeit more economical domestic vehicle. If everyone was driving a Hummer, I would still express my individuality by driving something different! I won't join in a crowd, or jump on any bandwagons just because my peers think it's the right thing to do. To comment on MY person in that sense is indicating unequivocally that you don't know me at all!

[bubble.tea]

....Some have turned it into a debate for whatever reason...

yeah., sad really.>:(

[shabby]

That is my opinion - I think SUVs are stupid vehicles

You're whole argument here is based on the fact that you think suv's are stupid, isnt that kind of... stupid?

[poedua]

You're whole argument here is based on the fact that you think suv's are stupid, isnt that kind of... stupid?

No, that's not my whole argument. But, they are stupid IMO.

If I was trying to find a vehicle to meet my family's many needs and accomodate our lifestyle - choosing an SUV would be a stupid thing to do IMO. That's the argument.

And even if the criteria changed, ( i.e I had no kids or were single ), I'd still hold to my view that SUV's are pretty much a stupid option and for that reason, I'd never be caught dead driving an SUV.

[shabby]

You're totally right shabby, how could i be so foolish. Suv's arent stupid at all, heck i will sell my dinky minivans and go out and buy some big honkin american suv's to replace them. Thanks a lot, you're the greatest!

No problem buddy, im glad you had a change of heart. Now we can finally move on :D
I personally like the nissan quest, must be that skylight feature it has on the roof...

[poedua]

No problem buddy, im glad you had a change of heart. Now we can finally move on :D
I personally like the nissan quest, must be that skylight feature it has on the roof...
Smarten up shabby, this .....

Quote:
Originally Posted by poedua
You're totally right shabby, how could i be so foolish. Suv's arent stupid at all, heck i will sell my dinky minivans and go out and buy some big honkin american suv's to replace them. Thanks a lot, you're the greatest!


...is not a quote from me.

[akito925]

same here... we were tired of bending into the Civic to put our one yr old... then we were expecting our second one so decided to get a van... got an Odyssey... and very happy with it...no more bending and lots of space...

The Odyssey might be little less room for him, judging he is very tall and don't like bending down.. to get smothing like a ford exhibition truck, or a nice quad cab track it has 4 doors, and high off the ground so no need to bend down, also has lots of cargo rom out in the back, lots of leg rom for long legs.


why settle for a minivan, get a full sized van. Tons of room.

though fuel efficiency isn't so good.....

that might be a nice van. but I'd quad cab diesel pick up truck might fit better

We got a Honda Fit with one child coming and don't plan on a minivan unless we have a second or third child. Another friend have two kids and do fine with a compact car.

We invested in a nice light and compact folding stroller. Although it was more expensive than a large stroller, this delayed the need for a large car until later. With our Pliko P3 stroller in the trunk, there was still plenty of room for groceries in the trunk of our Honda Fit.

Unfortunately the problem I have with most minivans is that they are just too large for a family of 3 or even 4. Something like a Mazda 5, B200 or the older/smaller Honda Odyssey would be
more appropriate than the larger "mini"-vans that are available these days.

I'm hoping more manufacturers offer this type of vehicle instead of building on all those compact SUVs.

With just one child, I would suggest you look at the Mazda5. It even has a sliding door like a minivan.

how is the honda fit? I love how it looks. but waiting for a used one to be out. or one that is off lease so I could buy it

[slouie]

And I can't imagine what kind of real emergency it would be that I would be hulling large stuff that would require a minivan anyways. Please enlighten me.


Picture this...Its the middle of summer, 30 plus temperatures...the refridgerator konks out. I need a new fridge now! Go to the store to buy one...we have a delivery date available in 3.5 weeks. No thanks, I'll pick it up at the warehouse...now!

Been there...done that!

[Spidey]

Picture this...Its the middle of summer, 30 plus temperatures...the refridgerator konks out. I need a new fridge now! Go to the store to buy one...we have a delivery date available in 3.5 weeks. No thanks, I'll pick it up at the warehouse...now!

Been there...done that!

Perfect example. Emergencies always come up. Been there to, although it was a dishwasher.

With the truck now its even better

[Jonavin]

how is the honda fit? I love how it looks. but waiting for a used one to be out. or one that is off lease so I could buy it

It's a very fun car to drive and lots of room inside. The "magic seat" is great for all kinds of weird shaped objects that normally wouldn't fit in a vehicle of that size. I picked up a large ottoman last week that was nearly as long as a king size bed. I think in the past 4 months I've used just about every folding position available. I haven't had the need to borrow a minivan yet.

The bad side, it tends to be a bit noisy on the highway... at least compared (unfairly) to my Acura. We got the Sport model, it's got just about everything but some "missing features" that I'm used to having: heated mirrors, variable intermittent wipers, remote gas door lever. Otherwise, it's just about perfect.

[Jonavin]

Picture this...Its the middle of summer, 30 plus temperatures...the refridgerator konks out. I need a new fridge now! Go to the store to buy one...we have a delivery date available in 3.5 weeks. No thanks, I'll pick it up at the warehouse...now!

Been there...done that!

I haven't thought of that, that's a good example. I have a spare fridge in the basement. It comes in handy when stashing stuff for a big party and lots of food.

I still think that something like a dishwasher could wait a day or two. Maybe it's just me, but I see my computer dieing as being a bigger emergency than a dish washer. In any case my Honda Fit will swallow a dishwasher with the rear seat down; dishwasher is about 61x61x87cm, Fit cargo area = 90x103x146cm (over 230cm if the front passenger seat is also folded flat). A Mazda5 or other tall wagon could probably do better, and might even fit your fridge in an emergency.

[Spidey]

I haven't thought of that, that's a good example. I have a spare fridge in the basement. It comes in handy when stashing stuff for a big party and lots of food.

I still think that something like a dishwasher could wait a day or two. Maybe it's just me, but I see my computer dieing as being a bigger emergency than a dish washer. In any case my Honda Fit will swallow a dishwasher with the rear seat down; dishwasher is about 61x61x87cm, Fit cargo area = 90x103x146cm (over 230cm if the front passenger seat is also folded flat). A Mazda5 or other tall wagon could probably do better, and might even fit your fridge in an emergency.


I didnt say I needed the dishwasher that day. But having a minivan allowed me to pick it up without resorting to borrowing a truck to pick it up.

Guarantted your Honda Fit wont swallow a sheet of plywood or long 2 x 4s when your doing renovations or work to your house or yard

[stevethewheel]

Accept the change of life gracefully.

Once you get a minivan and get over yourself you'll be so happy that you'll want your kids to live with you longer so that you can continue to justify it.

[Jonavin]

I didnt say I needed the dishwasher that day. But having a minivan allowed me to pick it up without resorting to borrowing a truck to pick it up.

Guarantted your Honda Fit wont swallow a sheet of plywood or long 2 x 4s when your doing renovations or work to your house or yard

Again, renovations are something you plan for. You don't just wake up and decide to do reno that day. If you are a contractor then a truck and larger van makes perfect sense.

[Jonavin]

Accept the change of life gracefully.

Once you get a minivan and get over yourself you'll be so happy that you'll want your kids to live with you longer so that you can continue to justify it.

Oh I didn't say a minivan will never be in my future. It's just not the time for it yet. When I have the 3rd child or when the second is older and we will have to start driving their little friends too, and it would be a good reason.

Of course, if you just want the safest vehicle to put your kids in, nothing beats a minivan. It's safer than any SUV and better on gas, and that may be reason enough.

[Spidey]

Again, renovations are something you plan for. You don't just wake up and decide to do reno that day. If you are a contractor then a truck and larger van makes perfect sense.

Actually I have did that, only a afew times. Did my utility room that way, walked in, decided I was sick of the concrete walls, and picked up wall paneling and 2 x 4's for framing

Does it happen every day, no. But I find not having to "borrow" vehicles makes the spur of the moment things less inconvient.

Happens at IKEA sometimes. Wife sees a new shelving unit to replace somthing we have thats not exactly great. Works out to be 8 feet long. Minivan no problem.

Once the kids are gone we will get out a minivan, but that wont be for awhile.

Plus I doubt we will ever upgarde our minivan to another one. Unless of course its in a write off accident or the engine blows. otherwise Ill just drive it till we dont need it

[brendonp]

This thread is had quite the humorous debate re: mini-van vs. SUV...

I've got a different point of view on the SUV - my wife drives a small one - because it's small! One of my big gripes about minivans is the amount of stuff that seems to be transported around in them; granted we have only a very young daughter and a dog that we haul around right now, but we haven't had any problems packing for a 10 day trip over Christmas and hauling around a playpen, good size stroller and presents for 2 sets of families, nevermind the regular clothing, diapers, dog food, etc, etc.

We're currently shopping for a new SUV and the smaller BMW (the X3) is on our list because it's small! I've considered the bigger X5, and while I do like it and can certainly afford it (and love the greater luxury feeling!), I've found the driving dynamics of the X3 to be quite a bit nicer - the only down side is that I'm not overly enamoured of the BMW image; however if you like good everyday driving dynamics they are tough to beat. We're also looking at the Hyundai Santa Fe for the third row seating - hard to justify since it'll seldom be used, but my extended family (parents/sibilings) get together a fair bit in the summer and it would be nice to be able to transport a couple of extra bodies every once in a while (sure, exactly what people use mini-vans for!)...

Sorry for the digression, but I'm of the opinion that for vehicles, smaller is generally better!

Brendon

[Spidey]

This thread is had quite the humorous debate re: mini-van vs. SUV...

I've got a different point of view on the SUV - my wife drives a small one - because it's small! One of my big gripes about minivans is the amount of stuff that seems to be transported around in them; granted we have only a very young daughter and a dog that we haul around right now, but we haven't had any problems packing for a 10 day trip over Christmas and hauling around a playpen, good size stroller and presents for 2 sets of families, nevermind the regular clothing, diapers, dog food, etc, etc.

We're currently shopping for a new SUV and the smaller BMW (the X3) is on our list because it's small! I've considered the bigger X5, and while I do like it and can certainly afford it (and love the greater luxury feeling!), I've found the driving dynamics of the X3 to be quite a bit nicer - the only down side is that I'm not overly enamoured of the BMW image; however if you like good everyday driving dynamics they are tough to beat. We're also looking at the Hyundai Santa Fe for the third row seating - hard to justify since it'll seldom be used, but I my extended family (parents/sibilings) get together a fair bit in the summer and it would be nice to be able to transport a couple of extra bodies every once in a while...

Sorry for the digression, but I'm of the opinion that for vehicles, smaller is generally better!

Brendon

But you just said yourself you have on kid. Try 3 or more and see how well everyone fits in a "small" vehicle ona long trip

hes touching me :cheesygri

[Jonavin]

This thread is had quite the humorous debate re: mini-van vs. SUV...

I've got a different point of view on the SUV - my wife drives a small one - because it's small! One of my big gripes about minivans is the amount of stuff that seems to be transported around in them; granted we have only a very young daughter and a dog that we haul around right now, but we haven't had any problems packing for a 10 day trip over Christmas and hauling around a playpen, good size stroller and presents for 2 sets of families, nevermind the regular clothing, diapers, dog food, etc, etc.

We're currently shopping for a new SUV and the smaller BMW (the X3) is on our list because it's small! I've considered the bigger X5, and while I do like it and can certainly afford it (and love the greater luxury feeling!), I've found the driving dynamics of the X3 to be quite a bit nicer - the only down side is that I'm not overly enamoured of the BMW image; however if you like good everyday driving dynamics they are tough to beat. We're also looking at the Hyundai Santa Fe for the third row seating - hard to justify since it'll seldom be used, but my extended family (parents/sibilings) get together a fair bit in the summer and it would be nice to be able to transport a couple of extra bodies every once in a while (sure, exactly what people use mini-vans for!)...

Sorry for the digression, but I'm of the opinion that for vehicles, smaller is generally better!

Brendon


If you don't care for the BMW image but want the driving dynamics, why not an Acura RDX?

Between an SUV and minivan, I would pick a minivan. If it's just an image thing you're worrying about, use the money you saved on the vehicle and gas and also buy yourself a sporty coupe or something.

[patrob]

This thread is had quite the humorous debate re: mini-van vs. SUV...

I've got a different point of view on the SUV - my wife drives a small one - because it's small! One of my big gripes about minivans is the amount of stuff that seems to be transported around in them; granted we have only a very young daughter and a dog that we haul around right now, but we haven't had any problems packing for a 10 day trip over Christmas and hauling around a playpen, good size stroller and presents for 2 sets of families, nevermind the regular clothing, diapers, dog food, etc, etc.

We're currently shopping for a new SUV and the smaller BMW (the X3) is on our list because it's small! I've considered the bigger X5, and while I do like it and can certainly afford it (and love the greater luxury feeling!), I've found the driving dynamics of the X3 to be quite a bit nicer - the only down side is that I'm not overly enamoured of the BMW image; however if you like good everyday driving dynamics they are tough to beat. We're also looking at the Hyundai Santa Fe for the third row seating - hard to justify since it'll seldom be used, but my extended family (parents/sibilings) get together a fair bit in the summer and it would be nice to be able to transport a couple of extra bodies every once in a while (sure, exactly what people use mini-vans for!)...

Sorry for the digression, but I'm of the opinion that for vehicles, smaller is generally better!

Brendon

I'm glad you liked that debate:cheesygri :cheesygri

Good choice on the X3 or the X5 :lol: ...The good thing about the newest X5 is that they now have the 3rd row as an option...so you can fit your extra buddies & transport them in style ;). If you enjoy driving you will love a BMW...just ask anyone who has one... Go for it :twisted: ...you will not regret it:!:

[brendonp]

But you just said yourself you have on kid. Try 3 or more and see how well everyone fits in a "small" vehicle ona long trip

hes touching me :cheesygri

When you have three, they aren't all angels and sit quietly for 5 hour trips? :razz:


If you don't care for the BMW image but want the driving dynamics, why not an Acura RDX?

Between an SUV and minivan, I would pick a minivan. If it's just an image thing you're worrying about, use the money you saved on the vehicle and gas and also buy yourself a sporty coupe or something.

We did give it a quick look; my wife doesn't like the interior so much (prefers the "plain" BMW look) and neither of us were impressed with the drive - the turbo makes itself known (drive a BMW/Volvo inline 6 for comparison!), and the mileage actually was a fair bit worse then the BMW! We also both like the Panorama roof in the BMW ;)

I'm glad you liked that debate:cheesygri :cheesygri

Good choice on the X3 or the X5 :lol: ...The good thing about the newest X5 is that they now have the 3rd row as an option...so you can fit your extra buddies & transport them in style ;). If you enjoy driving you will love a BMW...just ask anyone who has one... Go for it :twisted: ...you will not regret it:!:

I do enjoy driving (and yes, I drive a BMW - a lightly modified 330 coupe!;)) and certainly love the look of the X5 - probably my favorite looking BMW right now, but I'm having trouble justifying the price / size / fuel economy to myself (and ultimately to my wife, who would be driving it on a daily basis)! That being said, I had my car in for it's last "warrantied" oil change today and I was drooling a bit over the new X5 interior - it's certainly gorgeous!

As an aside, a few years back the BMW X5 was rated as the safest vehicle on the road in ALL categories - a little tid-bit for the poster who mentioned that mini-vans are safer then SUVs!

[patrob]

I do enjoy driving (and yes, I drive a BMW - a lightly modified 330 coupe!;)) and certainly love the look of the X5 - probably my favorite looking BMW right now, but I'm having trouble justifying the price / size / fuel economy to myself (and ultimately to my wife, who would be driving it on a daily basis)! That being said, I had my car in for it's last "warrantied" oil change today and I was drooling a bit over the new X5 interior - it's certainly gorgeous!

As an aside, a few years back the BMW X5 was rated as the safest vehicle on the road in ALL categories - a little tid-bit for the poster who mentioned that mini-vans are safer then SUVs!

I remember that it was rated #1 for safety in that category, that was one of the reasons we bought ours back then in 2002...:rolleyes: I did not want to start another debate by pointing that out :lol: ;)

[poedua]

This thread is had quite the humorous debate re: mini-van vs. SUV...

I've got a different point of view on the SUV - my wife drives a small one - because it's small! One of my big gripes about minivans is the amount of stuff that seems to be transported around in them;

Not sure I follow, you don't like a mini-van cause of " the amount of stuff that seems to be transported " ? What does that mean exactly...you don't like it becuase it has a lot of cargo capacity ...or you don't like how you see people using them ?


granted we have only a very young daughter and a dog that we haul around right now, but we haven't had any problems packing for a 10 day trip over Christmas and hauling around a playpen, good size stroller and presents for 2 sets of families, nevermind the regular clothing, diapers, dog food, etc, etc.

I think the fact you have only 1 toddler child and a dog has a lot to do with it. Relatives of ours have a similar situation ( 1 kid, 1 dog ) and get along drving an Accord sedan. However, having 3 kids - or in our case 4 - obviously demands a different vehicle IMO.

We're currently shopping for a new SUV and the smaller BMW (the X3) is on our list because it's small! I've considered the bigger X5, and while I do like it and can certainly afford it (and love the greater luxury feeling!), I've found the driving dynamics of the X3 to be quite a bit nicer - the only down side is that I'm not overly enamoured of the BMW image;

Curuious, what " image"' are you referring to ?


however if you like good everyday driving dynamics they are tough to beat. We're also looking at the Hyundai Santa Fe for the third row seating - hard to justify since it'll seldom be used, but my extended family (parents/sibilings) get together a fair bit in the summer and it would be nice to be able to transport a couple of extra bodies every once in a while (sure, exactly what people use mini-vans for!)..

So, why not look at a mini-van ? If it is luxury you want, simply get a " loaded " mini-van with all the bells and whistles...then you have the best of both worlds.:)

Sorry for the digression, but I'm of the opinion that for vehicles, smaller is generally better!

Ironically, this is one of the reasons why I'm not a fan of SUV's in general.

[brendonp]

Not sure I follow, you don't like a mini-van cause of " the amount of stuff that seems to be transported " ? What does that mean exactly...you don't like it becuase it has a lot of cargo capacity ...or you don't like how you see people using them ?


I suppose it's a bit of both - cargo capacity is great - if you need it. I'm simply having a hard time seing the capacity requirements (and in general fuel requirements) of a mini-van on a day-to-day basis. See next comments...


I think the fact you have only 1 toddler child and a dog has a lot to do with it. Relatives of ours have a similar situation ( 1 kid, 1 dog ) and get along drving an Accord sedan. However, having 3 kids - or in our case 4 - obviously demands a different vehicle IMO.


I agree 100% - it would be tough to shove 4 kids and 2 adults into a sedan. Oddly enough my parents never had a mini-van, regular van, nor SUV when I was younger and we often did 5+ hour trips with 3 kids, 2 adults and 1 dog in a regular sedan... I don't seem to recall a lot of fighting, but then I was older then my sibilings by a few years and might have just ignored them...


Curuious, what " image"' are you referring to ?


Step into a BMW dealership when it's relatively busy... At least this has been my experience - they treat me quite nicely because I'm a customer, but I've seen a fair bit of condescension from various staff towards "potential" customers - it seems to rub off on some of the customers as well. This is certainly not an "across the board" thing - however it does seem to exist. And certainly some of the dealership amenities are quite nice, and I take advantage of them (ie, an oil change for me means I drop off the car, and someone whisks me off to the local gym so that I can play squash; certainly nicer then waiting around the dealership - this just ended for me yesterday, as I'm now out of warranty, so will be performing regular maintenance myself!). In the end, I somewhat reluctantly bought my car because it was a riot to drive, while still having some nice luxury features and extremely decent fuel economy....



So, why not look at a mini-van ? If it is luxury you want, simply get a " loaded " mini-van with all the bells and whistles...then you have the best of both worlds.:)


Somewhat true; however I haven't found many mini-vans very luxurious (ofcourse if you sat in my car you'd probably think it was "plain" - so again, different strokes!), I've lost the driving dynamics completely, and the fuel economy isn't as good... remember I'm talking about smaller SUVs, not the monsters!


Ironically, this is one of the reasons why I'm not a fan of SUV's in general.

Different strokes, I suppose - naturally, you have a larger family so I see your requirements for a larger vehicle; however, I'd wager that half the mini-van owners on my street have only 1 or 2 children....

[and or]

That's the new Dodge Grand Caravan. I've read about it but haven't seen it in action yet. I heard they did away with the stow and go seating (a great feature I like in our Grand Caravan) in favour of the swivel seats. Sounds cool. If you were doing a road trip with the guys you could play Euchre or poker during the drive. Well maybe not poker as the chips would go everywhere when you take a corner too fast. :-)

Those Swivel'n'Go seats are a cool design (here's a video about them: "Family rooms on wheels" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtDjNLnIKDE)) - not that I'd ever throw my money away on an American vehicle. Odyssey all the way.

Also, http://www.drivingtelevision.com/ has an informative segment called the "Minivan Challenge", which compares seven different 2007 models.

[poedua]

I suppose it's a bit of both - cargo capacity is great - if you need it.

I'm simply having a hard time seing the capacity requirements (and in general fuel requirements) of a mini-van on a day-to-day basis...

I've lost the driving dynamics completely, and the fuel economy isn't as good... remember I'm talking about smaller SUVs, not the monsters!



On fuel economy, I suppose it depends on what size SUV you are compiring a mini-van to. My Honda mini-van for example is city / highway mpg rated at 18/25. Some mid -szie SUV's are worse, some small SUV's are better.

Ford Explorer : 15 / 20
BMW X 3: 17/ 25
Ford Escape : 20 / 26

On " driving dynamics ", not sure what you're referring to there. But kids, for us at least, I, my friends and family couldn't care less about " driving dynamics " such as top speed etc. Turning , braking, cornering, 0-60, 4X4 off -roading, safety and overall handling of a mini-van are more than I need for simply commuting, running errands and week-ends jaunts with the kids.

I agree 100% - it would be tough to shove 4 kids and 2 adults into a sedan. Oddly enough my parents never had a mini-van, regular van, nor SUV when I was younger and we often did 5+ hour trips with 3 kids, 2 adults and 1 dog in a regular sedan... I don't seem to recall a lot of fighting, but then I was older then my sibilings by a few years and might have just ignored them...

Too bad they didn't have mini-vans back then - they likely would have bought them.


Step into a BMW dealership when it's relatively busy... At least this has been my experience - they treat me quite nicely because I'm a customer, but I've seen a fair bit of condescension from various staff towards "potential" customers - it seems to rub off on some of the customers as well. This is certainly not an "across the board" thing - however it does seem to exist. And certainly some of the dealership amenities are quite nice, and I take advantage of them (ie, an oil change for me means I drop off the car, and someone whisks me off to the local gym so that I can play squash; certainly nicer then waiting around the dealership - this just ended for me yesterday, as I'm now out of warranty, so will be performing regular maintenance myself!). In the end, I somewhat reluctantly bought my car because it was a riot to drive, while still having some nice luxury features and extremely decent fuel economy....

I can't speak for dealerships, but I agree with you.

I've also noticed, though this is " not an "across the board" thing " , a certain " condescension " or a patronizingly superior behavior / attitude among some BMW owners I ( and others ) have run across. As you say " it does seem to exist ".


Somewhat true; however I haven't found many mini-vans very luxurious (ofcourse if you sat in my car you'd probably think it was "plain" - so again, different strokes!), I've lost the driving dynamics completely, and the fuel economy isn't as good... remember I'm talking about smaller SUVs, not the monsters!

Different strokes, I suppose - naturally, you have a larger family so I see your requirements for a larger vehicle; however, I'd wager that half the mini-van owners on my street have only 1 or 2 children....

Well, I suspect that is because it may ( or may not ) relate to certain lifestyle choices with 2 kids. If families are active in socializing with friends and family or activites and or want the opportunity to include others in their daily routine, a mini-van is a big plus. For example, I've often had myself & 7 kids crammed into the mini-van en route to a soccer game, birthday parties, myself and 6 others off to a a family function etc. etc. - you get the idea.

[crikey]

On " driving dynamics ", not sure what you're referring to there. But kids, for us at least, I, my friends and family couldn't care less about " driving dynamics " such as top speed etc. Turning , braking, cornering, 0-60, 4X4 off -roading, safety and overall handling of a mini-van are more than I need for simply commuting, running errands and week-ends jaunts with the kids.

Therein lies the problem. Some folks do value driving dynamics and some just want a vehicle that gets from point A to point B. I believe that if minivans had a bit better driving dynamics than they do today, more people would buy one. However, it just isn't the case. And for some folks, it just isn't acceptable. I do agree that for passenger-carrying practicality, the minivan wins. But a lot of folks aren't willing to sacrifice the joy they derive from driving just to get into a minivan. You guys will have to agree to disagree. :) I like minivans for their practicality, but that's about it.

[NorthYorker]

not that I'd ever throw my money away on an American vehicle. Odyssey all the way. Tranny in my friend's 1999 Ody went dead about a month after extended warranty expired. 3.5K USD evaporated from his budget. I got rid of my 1994 Pontiac minivan last year because I had more money to spend than time to maintain small problems, but I never had single repair bill more than $600 Canadian and I never spent more than 2K a year for repairs (actually managed to stay within 1K for 1st decade of beast's life).

[NorthYorker]

But a lot of folks aren't willing to sacrifice the joy they derive from driving just to get into a minivan. Joy from driving 2.5-tonn hyppo as high as garden shed (even)? I have some problems believing it's not self-hypnosys on the side of luxo-SUV drivers. I kinda understand ppl who buy Eclipse as family vehicle (although I ridicule them too), but not ppl who call X5 "driver's car".

[Spidey]

Therein lies the problem. Some folks do value driving dynamics and some just want a vehicle that gets from point A to point B. I believe that if minivans had a bit better driving dynamics than they do today, more people would buy one. However, it just isn't the case. And for some folks, it just isn't acceptable. I do agree that for passenger-carrying practicality, the minivan wins. But a lot of folks aren't willing to sacrifice the joy they derive from driving just to get into a minivan. You guys will have to agree to disagree. :) I like minivans for their practicality, but that's about it.


I had an old boss that always had to do you one better. I can jog 5 miles, he can do 6. he can bike this much father etc,

One time we were talking minivans and he asked what i drove. I said a Pontiac Montana. Ill never forget what he said and I laughed to myself

Oh I looked at a Montana but decided on the Odyssey. The Montana floated to much, didnt have enough power for acceleation and couldnt do turns sharply.

I thought to myself "Its a minivan, what r u, racing people on the highway"

I know each van drives differently, but when he said that I just rolled my eyes. I quit quickly after, the guy was a jerk

[poedua]

Therein lies the problem. Some folks do value driving dynamics and some just want a vehicle that gets from point A to point B. I believe that if minivans had a bit better driving dynamics than they do today, more people would buy one.

What " driving dymanics " do you have in mind ? Better that what other vehicle's driving dynamics - what vehicle / dynamic benchmark are you using here to compare mini-vans against ?

However, it just isn't the case. And for some folks, it just isn't acceptable. I do agree that for passenger-carrying practicality, the minivan wins. But a lot of folks aren't willing to sacrifice the joy they derive from driving just to get into a minivan. You guys will have to agree to disagree. :) I like minivans for their practicality, but that's about it.

Sacrifice is a relative term I suppose..particuarily in the context of needs vs wants. And also in the context of personal needs vs wants or family needs vs wants. In my case, I put my family's needs & wants over those of my own. But that's just me.

Exactly - I have 4 kids. That last thing I would get is an SUV.

The again, even if I had no kids, it would still be the case - that last thing I would get is an SUV.:)

[plymouthhater]

We have 2 minivans in our household. When we had our second child in 1996 we upgraded from a 4 cylinder Ford Mustang to a Plymouth Grand Voyager purchased new in August of 1995. Other than the fact it was the most unreliable POS I have ever owned, in retrospect, switching to a minivan was a wise decision. Lots of storage space, great driver visibility etc.

When my wife's car was due for replacement in 1997 - we purchased a Ford Aerostar when they were clearing them out at the bitter end of the model. My wife, who was adamant she would never drive a minivan fell in love with the vehicle and drove it for 9 years.

I replaced the Plymouth (POS) with a 2004 Sienna LE and this past June when it was time to replace my wife's van, she wanted another minivan - so we purchased a new Mazda MPV.

My Sienna runs like a car, gets approx. 30 mpg on the highway and has been extremely reliable to date. (just had its 4th anniversary April 1st).

[crikey]

I had an old boss that always had to do you one better. I can jog 5 miles, he can do 6. he can bike this much father etc,

One time we were talking minivans and he asked what i drove. I said a Pontiac Montana. Ill never forget what he said and I laughed to myself

Oh I looked at a Montana but decided on the Odyssey. The Montana floated to much, didnt have enough power for acceleation and couldnt do turns sharply.

I thought to myself "Its a minivan, what r u, racing people on the highway"

I know each van drives differently, but when he said that I just rolled my eyes. I quit quickly after, the guy was a jerk

:cheesygri LOL

[NorthYorker]

We have 2 minivans in our household. When we had our second child in 1996 we upgraded from a 4 cylinder Ford Mustang to a Plymouth Grand Voyager purchased new in August of 1995. Other than the fact it was the most unreliable POS I have ever owned, in retrospect, switching to a minivan was a wise decision. Lots of storage space, great driver visibility etc.

When my wife's car was due for replacement in 1997 - we purchased a Ford Aerostar when they were clearing them out at the bitter end of the model. My wife, who was adamant she would never drive a minivan fell in love with the vehicle and drove it for 9 years.

I replaced the Plymouth (POS) with a 2004 Sienna LE and this past June when it was time to replace my wife's van, she wanted another minivan - so we purchased a new Mazda MPV.

My Sienna runs like a car, gets approx. 30 mpg on the highway and has been extremely reliable to date. (just had its 4th anniversary April 1st). You guy seem to have a lot of luck with either 1st or last years of vehicle models. 1995 Plymouth - last year of old "boxy" shape, 1997 Aerostar - last year of the line, 2006 MPV - last year of the line, 2004 Sienna - 1st year of the new shape. Luck of the Irish (or, as they call it in Russia, Jewish Luck) or deliberate choice?

BTW, do you have this "freezing door seals" problem on your Sienna?

[Rehan]

I replaced the Plymouth (POS) with a 2004 Sienna LE and this past June when it was time to replace my wife's van, she wanted another minivan - so we purchased a new Mazda MPV. How do you like to MPV compared to the Sienna?

[crikey]

What " driving dymanics " do you have in mind ? Better that what other vehicle's driving dynamics - what vehicle / dynamic benchmark are you using here to compare mini-vans against?

Better turning, better stopping, etc. Some SUVs outperform sedans which is why it is attractive to other folks. As an example, I think the new Mazda CX-9 crossover drives a lot better than all the minivans out there. It seats 7 comfortably and has all the safety features that a minivan has and seems to consume just a bit more fuel, but not too much. I would understand why someone would buy the CX-9 over an Odyssey or a Sienna.


Sacrifice is a relative term I suppose..particuarily in the context of needs vs wants. And also in the context of personal needs vs wants or family needs vs wants. In my case, I put my family's needs & wants over those of my own. But that's just me.

It is an honorable sacrifice that you do, placing your family's needs over yours and should be the way everyone should act. But, I really don't see anything wrong with getting a vehicle that serves their needs and your needs, as well.


Exactly - I have 4 kids. That last thing I would get is an SUV.
If I had 4 kids, there would be no question, I would get a minivan. But, some of the folks here don't have as many kids as yourself. Hence, they feel a minivan might be a bit too big for their needs. Now, if one had an extended family to ferry around as well, a minivan is the only way to go.


The again, even if I had no kids, it would still be the case - that last thing I would get is an SUV.:)

Oh, without a doubt. I'd get a car, not a minivan or SUV/crossover. I actually like station wagons.

[patrob]

...The again, even if I had no kids, it would still be the case - that last thing I would get is an SUV.:)

I would hope so...most single people or even married couples won't buy an SUV...what for...they will have no need for one (I'm sure some would get one anyways).

BTW, did you ever drive a BMW? Some say once you're 'hooked' that's it :D

No point in debating this again and again... Everybody likes different things & no need to put people down because they drive a certain make/model...

I can just see this topic getting locked like the 'other' thread :lol: :rolleyes:

[crikey]

Joy from driving 2.5-tonn hyppo as high as garden shed (even)? I have some problems believing it's not self-hypnosys on the side of luxo-SUV drivers. I kinda understand ppl who buy Eclipse as family vehicle (although I ridicule them too), but not ppl who call X5 "driver's car".

Believe it or not, but the X5 does outperform some sedans. I wouldn't buy one if I needed to seat 7 people most of the time.

[patrob]

Believe it or not, but the X5 does outperform some sedans.

The secret is out... ;)

[crikey]

No point in debating this again and again... Everybody likes different things & no need to put people down because they drive a certain make/model...

Exactly...different strokes for different folks.

[patrob]

Exactly...different strokes for different folks.

:D

[and or]

I thought to myself "Its a minivan, what r u, racing people on the highway"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zU4paH8qcQ8

[Spidey]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zU4paH8qcQ8

Ill view it at home, youtube is blocked at work

whats the general jist

[afong56]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zU4paH8qcQ8

that was the funniest thing i've seen in weeks, lol!!!

seeing four minivans racing around a track was bizarre, kinda like a perverse mating ritual between whales, but watching the mazda 5 drifting around corners was hilarious.

thanks.

[CSK'sMom]

That video reminds me of the spectator races at Ransomville Speedway! LOL! Last year some macho guy crashed his BMW into the guardrail which was hysterical. I would have loved to hear his conversation with his wife later that night. :D They even had a schoolbus racing around the track at one point...

[NorthYorker]

Believe it or not, but the X5 does outperform some sedans. Crown Vics and Buicks? I wouldn't be surprised. Some sporty ride? BMW 3-series? LOL!

[crikey]

Crown Vics and Buicks? I wouldn't be surprised. Some sporty ride? BMW 3-series? LOL!

No, a Subaru Legacy GT (http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/8550/sustainable-sports-sedans-page3.html), for example. According to that C&D review, Roadholding was measured at 0.81 g, which is pretty good for a sedan. However, the BMW X5 (http://www.caranddriver.com/shortroadtests/8697/bmw-x5-48is-page2.html) was measured at 0.83g. The X5 may not outhandle its own BMW sedans, but it can sure outhandle a LOT of sedans out there.

I'm not firmly entrenched in the SUV or minivan camp. I do understand that people buy these vehicles for different reasons. If a family has more than 3 kids, I believe a minivan is, ideally, the vehicle for such a family. However, a smaller size family, an SUV/crossover can work as well. Minivans have grown bigger and bigger causing them to consume as much fuel as SUVs in addition to decreased driving dynamics. If one has the requirement to transport 7 people most of the time, the minivan is still the most efficient vehicle for such a task. But, if the vehicle is not being utilized as such, why buy too much of a vehicle if one didn't really want one in the first place?

Now, if one buys a vehicle mainly for its image, then that's a whole different level of issues.

[BlueMax]

We made the move up from a 2003 Pontiac Sunfire (absolute base model) to a 2003 fully-loaded Dodge Grand Caravan for only $5500 after trade.

I hate the price of filling the tank, but the mileage isn't too much worse... there's now TONS of room, which is good since the 2nd baby's carseat wouldn't fit in the Sunfire in the backwards-position. Now we have room to keep on procreating!! :razz: :razz:

[mannyb]

Well I did it. I went from a '01 Infiniti G20t to a '07 Hyundai Entourage GLS. I do like the space for my family but I'm still getting used to the increase in gas consumption. Overall I am satisfied with a minivan.