Final Computer Build....Feedback Please!! [Archive]

gman1975

Mar 5th, 2007, 09:54 PM

Well I think I finally have this system about as low as I can get it price wise, but as high as I can get feature/performance wise.

Biostar Tforce 965PT ATX LGA775 Conroe DDR2 965P 1PCI-E16 PCI-E1 3PCI SATA2 Sound GBLAN Motherboard
$121.65
Hauppauge Wintv PVR-150 Media Center Kit MPEG2 PCI TV Tuner Retail Box W/ Certified MCE Remote
$104.39
Sony MRW620 11-IN-1 Multi Card READER/WRITER INT 3.5IN Black MS/MS-PRO CF SD MMC XD OEM
$11.00
Microsoft Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 with SP2 OEM English W/ Vista Upgrade Coupon
$134.99
PC ASSEMBLY AND TESTING (PRE-CONFIG OS IF PURCHASED)
$1.00
Corsair Value Select PC2-5300 2X1024MB DDR2-667 240PIN DIMM
$165.98
Western Digital Caviar SE 160GB SATA2 7200RPM 8.9MS 8MB Hard Drive 3 Year MFR Warranty
$67.99
Sapphire Radeon X1600 Pro 128MB 128-BIT PCI-E VGA DVI-I TV Out Video Card Lite Retail
$64.99
Intel Core 2 Duo E6300 Dual Core Processor LGA775 Conroe 1.86GHZ 1066FSB 2MB Retail (open box, full warranty)
$206.55
NEC Super-Multi (AD-7170A) / 18x DVD�R Burn / 16x DVD�R Read / 8x DVD�RW / 8x DVD-R DL / 12x DVD-RAM / 48x32x CD-R/RW / Black / DVD Burner - OEM
$32.97
Logisys CS-51WBK 51W Black 450W ATX Tower Case 4X5.25 2X3.5 5X3.5INT W/ Window
$40.40
Shipping & Handling:
$30.00
Shipping Insurance (1.5%):
$14.28
SUBTOTAL:
$996.19
GST(6%):
$59.77
TOTAL:
CAD $1,055.96

The only upgrade I see is using the X800 Crossfire Edition for $19.56 more plus tax and a 250GB hard drive for $19.26 more plus tax.

I want to keep under $1100, do you guys have any final suggestions before I order????

It is being used as an entertainment PC.

Thanks

ppl4golf

Mar 5th, 2007, 10:05 PM

A bigger HDD is a must, get the 500GB for <$160, and that currently tied with the 320GB for lowest $/GB champ.

Also, you really cheaped out on the case relatively to the investment on your decent rig, I hate to say, but I might do the same thing but maybe get an Antec Sonata II or a HTPC case that can fit your mobo.

Jucius Maximus

Mar 5th, 2007, 10:13 PM

I prefer Seagate or Samsung drives myself. Western Digital's is not something I would buy unless it was one of the 10K Raptor drives. Also, you are only getting 160GB? Disk space is cheap and plentiful these days. If you are going to be doing mp3s or a lot of downloading (read: piracy,) get yourself a bigger drive.

Logisys tower case - Isn't Logisys a knockoff brand? Also if you are getting a case and a 450W power supply for $40.40, that is a major warning sign. I wouldn't buy the PSU alone for $40.40. It is probably a crap low quality PSU that will give unstable voltages and slowly kill your equipment. Personally I use Antec power supplies. Good names are also Enermax, Zalman and Fortron. The best is PC Power & Cooling but it's VERY expensive.

I am anal about these things but I would prefer to get cases from Antec, Thermaltake, Chenming or Lian Li. (My own Lian Li case was about $285 and PSU was ~$90.)

Excellent choice on the DVD burner.

Also I do not see monitor / mouse / keyboard / speakers here so I assume you have those already.

gman1975

Mar 5th, 2007, 10:16 PM

Jucius Maximus

Mar 5th, 2007, 10:22 PM

Do you need The tuner right now?

If anything, I would suggest you temporaruly cancel the tuner and get a high quality PSU right from the start.

Save your money and later on put in a 2nd HDD and the Tuner. Those are easy upgrades.

gman1975

Mar 5th, 2007, 10:23 PM

mingyang

Mar 5th, 2007, 10:32 PM

ppl4golf

Mar 5th, 2007, 10:52 PM

How about:

Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 320GB SATA2 3GB/S 7200RPM 16MB Cache NCQ Hard Drive for $99.99

Better choice????

Also someone please find me a good case for a reasonable price that includes the p/s.

That's better. Actually 3.2GB per dollar is not bad at all.

Take a lot at some of the AOPEN cases, a little less pleasing to the eyes but their PSUs seem ok for an OEM.

CSR

Mar 5th, 2007, 11:47 PM

Where are you ordering from?

Why the $30 shipping + $15 insurance?

Why not buy from Direct Canada and get free shipping?

Take away the tuner, card reader, O/S (if Possible).

jolok

Mar 5th, 2007, 11:58 PM

harddisc are too small for HT, get 500GB

terrybear

Mar 6th, 2007, 12:52 AM

Defiantly get the seagate 320 gig Sata2 drive & call it a day then.

cpus456

Mar 6th, 2007, 01:16 AM

[QUOTE=Hauppauge Wintv PVR-150 Media Center Kit MPEG2 PCI TV Tuner Retail Box W/ Certified MCE Remote
$104.39[/QUOTE]

Please pm

magical

Mar 6th, 2007, 01:16 AM

Again like i say drop that video card in favor of a board with built in GMA3000 Graphics, Drop the WD hdd in favor of seagate, get a Pioneer 112 Drive instead of that NEC ... those are all best bang for the buck...

lincoln

Mar 6th, 2007, 02:24 AM

How about:

Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 320GB SATA2 3GB/S 7200RPM 16MB Cache NCQ Hard Drive for $99.99

Better choice????

Also someone please find me a good case for a reasonable price that includes the p/s.

Stick with the 160gb caviar or if you must, get the 250gb caviar for $87.99. The access time of the 160gb is far faster than the barracuda. Same goes for the 250gb, although it isn't quite as fast as the 160gb. If you're looking for a 300gb harddrive (which is a lot to fill) then why not get two 160gb caviar's and run them in RAID? The access time of the drive when in RAID is phenominal!
According to tests on Tomshardware, the barracuda's can't even touch caviar's for performance.

I'd scrap the video card. A x1600 pro is not good at all. Why not just spend that money and buy a better mobo and use the onboard video card?

lincoln

Mar 6th, 2007, 02:38 AM

harddisc are too small for HT, get 500GB

The harddrive access time of 500gb harddrives fades dramatically as you start to fill them up. You'll notice a dramatic slowdown past the 250gb mark. You'd be far better off RAIDING two 250gb's for the same price or 3 160gb's.

magical

Mar 6th, 2007, 03:38 AM

Stick with the 160gb caviar or if you must, get the 250gb caviar for $87.99. The access time of the 160gb is far faster than the barracuda. Same goes for the 250gb, although it isn't quite as fast as the 160gb. If you're looking for a 300gb harddrive (which is a lot to fill) then why not get two 160gb caviar's and run them in RAID? The access time of the drive when in RAID is phenominal!
According to tests on Tomshardware, the barracuda's can't even touch caviar's for performance.

I'd scrap the video card. A x1600 pro is not good at all. Why not just spend that money and buy a better mobo and use the onboard video card?

uhhm comparing a 160 gb drive to a larger 320gb drive with Perpendicular Recording is no fair comparason, the Perpendicular technology will kill it in all ways...

Daijoubu

Mar 6th, 2007, 04:38 AM

Don't use a el-cheapo PSU to power you 800+ investment...the PSU is not where you want to cheap on

Here's a must buy PSU, aka "poor man's seasonic" as some may say
http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=11700AC6643&vpn=ATX-400-PN-B&manufacture=FORTRON%20SOURCE

And a good case from Antec, just a little over $50!
http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=10370AC2038&vpn=SLK3000B&manufacture=ANTEC
Review: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article210-page1.html

If you're really tight, this one is not too shabby for the price tag of $24..
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=22431&vpn=6C28WW8S%2FWhite&manufacture=Compucase&promoid=1051

And like someone else said, it's most likely going to be cheaper at DirectCanada but they don't build system afaik

The harddrive access time of 500gb harddrives fades dramatically as you start to fill them up. You'll notice a dramatic slowdown past the 250gb mark. You'd be far better off RAIDING two 250gb's for the same price or 3 160gb's.

I'd go RAID5 with 3 drives if money allows so :) (3x160GB @ $70 = $210 for 320GB total, cheaper if you go RAID1 with 2x 320GB)
Right now the best bang for the buck size seems to be 320GB at as little as $100 like someone else mentioned
But anyhow, I don't like RAID 0 as the chance of losing data is nearly doubled (if one of the drive fails, kiss bye bye to your data)

gman1975

Mar 6th, 2007, 07:19 AM

Antec Sonata II is best case + psu for the buck, although recently Antec has problems with their PSu manufacture but you cant go wrong with Antec cases

(if you overclock)
Since you're getting
Corsair Value Select PC2-5300 2X1024MB DDR2-667 240PIN DIMM
Why not get a e4300v, the VT thing is useless
I've seen DDR400 hitting 3ghz with E4300

So are you suggesting I get cheaper ram??
Also the E4300 is the exact same price as the E6300 right now, so why wouldn't I get the E6300?

What is the VT thing? If you mean video tuner, I need to to tape my kids tv shows and burn them to DVD's to keep them happy.

gman1975

Mar 6th, 2007, 07:22 AM

Where are you ordering from?

Why the $30 shipping + $15 insurance?

Why not buy from Direct Canada and get free shipping?

Take away the tuner, card reader, O/S (if Possible).

I am ordering from NCIX.com. He has matched or beaten all the Direct Canada prices plus he is giving me free assembly and testing, install O/S and offers 1yr warranty an everything through him (after that go through manufactuer).

gman1975

Mar 6th, 2007, 07:29 AM

Ok, I will get a better case, psu and 250gb hdd.

Now you guys suggest scraping video card and getting good mobo with onboard video, waiting for suggestions here???

I might overclock so I need a overclockable mobo with good onboard video OR I could use this motherboard and get a X800 XL for about $19.50 more???

Suggestions please?

gman1975

Mar 6th, 2007, 08:06 AM

Here are 3 cases I found that I could afford. Input please:

Raidmax X1 Gaming ATX Tower Case Black 5X5.25 2X3.5 3X3.5INT 420W PS W/ Window Door & Front IO Ports $85.68

Antec Sonata II Black ATX 16IN Mid Tower Quiet Case 3X5.25 2X3.5 4X3.5IN 450W Air Duct 120MM Fan $109.88

Coolermaster RC-534 Centurion 532 ATX Tower Case 5X5.25 1X3.5 4X3.5INT Black W/430W $79.99

I have read they are all good, so any input please will help???

maniacshopper

Mar 6th, 2007, 08:32 AM

Never cheap out on power supplies. One small problem, it will kill all your components. Some will survive if lucky.

PSU's aren't that expensive. Think of them as snow tires for winter. You may think you don't need them, the quality is there when moment counts.

board123

Mar 6th, 2007, 10:16 AM

Advice: don't get the X800XL......

If it's an HT build then get a card with hardware decoding capabilities, like a passive 7600GS or something.

mingyang

Mar 6th, 2007, 10:33 AM

So are you suggesting I get cheaper ram??
Also the E4300 is the exact same price as the E6300 right now, so why wouldn't I get the E6300?

What is the VT thing? If you mean video tuner, I need to to tape my kids tv shows and burn them to DVD's to keep them happy.

with E4300 you can overclock better than E6300 with a lower end RAM because it has 9x multiplier s E6300 only has 7x

the VT is the Vanderpool technology(Running OS on a OS), E6300 has it and E4300 don't. It's useless for you.

board123

Mar 6th, 2007, 11:09 AM

with E4300 you can overclock better than E6300 with a lower end RAM because it has 9x multiplier s E6300 only has 7x
That's what most people believe and it's generally not true. On paper the E4300 looks like a much better overclocker when in reality most people have gotten better overclocks with the E6300. The E4300 are made from low-quality E6300/E6400 chips that didn't exactly pass QA 100%. They clocked them down to a 200 MHz FSB and gave them a 9x multiplier to make up for that.

From what I've seen, people have been reporting higher temperatures for the E4300s. They also need a lot more voltage to reach similar clocks as the E6300s. On top of that, a lot of them have trouble going beyond the 2.8-3.0 GHz range. Anandtech must have gotten one hell of a handpicked chip to review...they got theirs to around 3.8 GHz!

If you want a reliable and guaranteed 3.2 GHz, go for the E6300. I've never heard of a single E6300 that hasn't been able to reach 3 GHz on stock voltage. Mine is at 3.2 GHz and undervolted in the bios. There is no way in hell you can do this with an E4300.

Daijoubu

Mar 6th, 2007, 01:17 PM

mingyang

Mar 6th, 2007, 06:15 PM

That's what most people believe and it's generally not true. On paper the E4300 looks like a much better overclocker when in reality most people have gotten better overclocks with the E6300. The E4300 are made from low-quality E6300/E6400 chips that didn't exactly pass QA 100%. They clocked them down to a 200 MHz FSB and gave them a 9x multiplier to make up for that.

From what I've seen, people have been reporting higher temperatures for the E4300s. They also need a lot more voltage to reach similar clocks as the E6300s. On top of that, a lot of them have trouble going beyond the 2.8-3.0 GHz range. Anandtech must have gotten one hell of a handpicked chip to review...they got theirs to around 3.8 GHz!

If you want a reliable and guaranteed 3.2 GHz, go for the E6300. I've never heard of a single E6300 that hasn't been able to reach 3 GHz on stock voltage. Mine is at 3.2 GHz and undervolted in the bios. There is no way in hell you can do this with an E4300.

Read again
with E4300 you can overclock better than E6300 with a lower end RAM

gman1975

Mar 6th, 2007, 07:52 PM

Let's not get in to a heated debate here. I can get an E6300 for the exact same price as an E4300 and I am not willing to pay the extra $70 to move to the E6400 and I know that AMD is not the answer either, it is older technology and a 4400+ is about the same price, but even a very mild overclock by a newbie will put AMD to shame.

I am going to get a seperate video card for 3 reasons:
1. I believe it is better to have 2 dedicated pieces instead of 1 shared.
2. I believe I will notice a visual differance.
3. I don't want a crappy motherboard because with on board video you cannot overclock well and also the best on board video is 1/2 as good as a $50 dedicated video card.

I have 3 choices of Video Card:
1. X1600 Pro 128MB DDR3 $65
2. X800 XL 256MB DDR3 $85
3. 7600GT 256MB $135

I will move to the 250GB HD and I think that $84 for the WD is better than $87 for the Seagate.

I also have decided to go with 2x1024mb 667 ram for $166

I am getting XP MCE and a TV Tuner because I will tape shows and burn them to DVD or hook to a TV so the kids can watch.

I want the card reader for convience with our 2 sony cameras.

You guys have talked me into the Pioneer DVD 112D or 111D.

So I am left trying to decide on a Case, PSU and Motherboard. I have read the Biostar Tforce 965PT ATX is a good overclocker, stable, reliable and affortable but I am open to suggestions. As for a power supply and case I have no idea other than I want 430W or more and very quiet running and also need good ventalation or cooling.

Please help me along, I am getting very close here and appreciate all the help so far.

gman1975

Mar 6th, 2007, 07:57 PM

lowfat

Mar 6th, 2007, 07:59 PM

The access time of the drive when in RAID is phenominal!

I don't know where you got that however access time will not be any better in RAID.

lowfat

Mar 6th, 2007, 08:01 PM

Here is a possible case and psu I read about:

Coolermaster Centurion 534 ATX Tower Case $52.92
FSP Fortron SAGA AX450-PN 450W $52.91

Keep the suggestions coming though. Or let me know if these are good.

That is a better idea. For my media center I use a CoolerMaster Elite 330 which is $40 :) and a Forton 350W PSU. Although your setup likely needs a bit more power than mine does.

board123

Mar 6th, 2007, 08:12 PM

Read again
with E4300 you can overclock better than E6300 with a lower end RAM

There's not a huge difference between "low-end RAM" and "mid-range DDR2-800." You can pick up the OCZ Platinum DDR2-800 for around $230 right now.

gman1975

Mar 6th, 2007, 08:30 PM

What about this power supply??

Thermaltake TR2 W0070 430W ATX12V V1.3 24PIN/20PIN Power Supply Dual 80MM Fan /W 6PIN PCI-E

$37.80 Direct Canada

OR

Sparkle Power SPI ATX-400PN 400W ATX12V 20/24PIN Power Supply W/ 120MM Fan P4 AMD Ready OEM

$37.26 Direct Canada

gman1975

Mar 6th, 2007, 11:12 PM

Well after days of advice and pricing I think I am almost done. Here is the final draft.

Sparkle Power SPI ATX-400PN 400W ATX12V 20/24PIN Power Supply W/ 120MM Fan P4 AMD Ready OEM $37.26 DC

Antec SLK3000B ATX Mid Tower Case Black 6X5.25 5X3.5 No PS $51.39 DC

Biostar Tforce 965PT ATX LGA775 Conroe DDR2 965P 1PCI-E16 PCI-E1 3PCI SATA2 Sound GBLAN Motherboard $124.83 DC

Intel Core 2 Duo E4300 Dual Core Processor LGA775 1.8GHZ 800FSB 2MB Retail $206.50 DC

Hitachi Deskstar T7K2 250GB SATAII 7200RPM 8MB 8.5MS U300 Hard Drive (OEM)3 Year MFR Warranty $87.25 DC

WINTV-PVR-150 MCE BNDL MPEG2 W/CERTIFIED MCE REMOTE & RECEIVER $110.41 DC

NEC AD-7170A DVD+RW 18X8X16 DVD-RW 18X6X16 Dual Layer 8X IDE Black OEM No Software $39.42 DC

Sony MRW620 11-IN-1 Multi Card READER/WRITER INT 3.5IN Black MS/MS-PRO CF SD MMC XD OEM $9.72 DC

Microsoft Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 with SP2 OEM English W/ Vista Upgrade Coupon $134.63 DC

Corsair Value Select PC2-5300 2X1024MB DDR2-667 240PIN DIMM $165.36 DC

Radeon X800 CrossFire Edition 256MB PCI Express $84.55 SHOPATI

Total $1051.32 plus taxes

Everything is from Direct Canada except Video Card from shopati. Any final suggestions or changes from you guys????

lincoln

Mar 6th, 2007, 11:15 PM

I don't know where you got that however access time will not be any better in RAID.

Actually, yes it will. This is directly from Wikipedia:

" If the sectors accessed are spread evenly between the two drives, the apparent seek time of the array will be half that of a single drive (assuming the disks in the array have identical access time characteristics). The transfer speed of the array will be the transfer speed of all the disks added together, limited only by the speed of the RAID controller."

Wikipedia RAID 0 LINK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID1#RAID_0)

This isn't the only source either, it's pretty common knowledge. Benefits are mostly noticed when copying files and using highly harddrive intensive programs. Game load times aren't usually affected that much.

I personally have noticed a HUGE improvement when multitasking on my PC with a couple programs reading/writing on my harddrive at the same time.

M.D.

Mar 6th, 2007, 11:17 PM

the ram is actually $172.
since you're not really gaming, do you really need the 2GB ram? even 1GB (2x512mb) is a lot for what you're doing.
saves you $80, can always upgrade later.

M.D.

Mar 6th, 2007, 11:19 PM

is the sparkle power supply 400watts enough for overclocking? and maybe crossfire mode?

Daijoubu

Mar 6th, 2007, 11:26 PM

is the sparkle power supply 400watts enough for overclocking? and maybe crossfire mode?

His system use about 220W, even overclocked, it should handle the load easily

terrybear

Mar 6th, 2007, 11:58 PM

I still say get the Radeon X 1600 pro card as the avivo will help ya big time with the video editing.

tmash

Mar 7th, 2007, 12:36 AM

Ummm....you could always not buy the OS and save money the unnecessary $145

gman1975

Mar 7th, 2007, 07:16 AM

the ram is actually $172.
since you're not really gaming, do you really need the 2GB ram? even 1GB (2x512mb) is a lot for what you're doing.
saves you $80, can always upgrade later.

But if I install Vista after I get my free copy, don't I need 2GB of Ram??

gman1975

Mar 7th, 2007, 07:18 AM

I still say get the Radeon X 1600 pro card as the avivo will help ya big time with the video editing.

That card is only $19 less but Tom's Hardware shows the X800 XL is far superior. Does this X800 XL not have the Pure Video technology that is equivalent to Avivo???

lincoln

Mar 7th, 2007, 10:53 AM

But if I install Vista after I get my free copy, don't I need 2GB of Ram??

I would highly recommend 2gb for VISTA. That thing is a resource hog.

1gb for xp

tmash

Mar 7th, 2007, 12:45 PM

I would highly recommend 2gb for VISTA. That thing is a resource hog.

1gb for xp

Depends what version of Vista you use....1GB is fine for one's that don't run Ultimate.

terrybear

Mar 7th, 2007, 12:46 PM

That card is only $19 less but Tom's Hardware shows the X800 XL is far superior. Does this X800 XL not have the Pure Video technology that is equivalent to Avivo???

Correct .... X800's will do HD output .... but the X1xxx series have the HD encoding technoligy in them with the avivo stuff in the cards.

X800 XL might preform better gamewise ... BUT if that board ya got supports crossfire at all ya can get another 1600 I believe to get a crossfire setup going then & will give ya some nice gaming & video editing enhancements if I remember correctly. :)

RastaManMax

Mar 7th, 2007, 12:58 PM

I don't know where you got that however access time will not be any better in RAID.

Same here, i've never seen tests showing access times increased through RAID, only sustained transfer rates? If you want fast access times, just go WD Raptor. My 200GB DM 10 has a higher access time than my 4 year old 120GB WD1200JB.