Trains in Europe

[enko]

Is there like 1 website I can visit for maps and pricing? Or does each country have it's own? Anyone know them off hand?

Looking to train around.. Holland, Germany, Czech, Switzerland, France, UK.

[asdfvcx]

Eurorail is the official site:

http://www.raileurope.ca/canada/index.htm

But I find the site can be hard to navigate, and the prices for individual rail tickets (not passes) can be higher on the site, then if you buy them in Europe.



I find Rick Steves' website: http://www.ricksteves.com/rail/rail_menu.htm better.

It has hand drawn maps ( http://www.ricksteves.com/rail/choosemenu.htm and http://www.ricksteves.com/rail/comparetickets.htm ) which should give you a good idea of prices.

Also, the section on rail passes is very good for explaining them, and for figuring out if one will be useful. (But note, all of his prices are in $US.)



And finally the Deutsche Bahn website (Germany's railway): http://bahn.hafas.de/bin/query.exe/en
can be used to get schedules for pretty much any train in Europe. But, it will only give prices for tickets that involve Germany.

[toujours]

http://www.voyages-sncf.com and choose the little English flag down on the left

[Pete_Coach]

Trains in Europe is far and away the best means of travel while there. For Canadians try http://www.raileurope.ca
also try http://www.railpass.com/ and
http://www.eurail.com/

[Sylvestre]

be aware that the efficiency varies SIGNIFICANTLY in countries. In some countries, if the train is there +/- 30 mins, you are lucky.

[Psubs]

It's crazy that it's like cheaper to fly. That's what I did; flew with EasyJet (don't fly with RyanAir - too ghetto). Just a pain to get to some of the smaller airports.

[Talamasca]

Agreed. Unless you're only travelling a short distance (i.e. Rome-Florence), flying is so much cheaper in Europe these days.

[enko]

Yeah I was a little shocked.. 600$ for a eurail pass.. damn..

EasyJet all over europe?

[b166er1337]

It's crazy that it's like cheaper to fly. That's what I did; flew with EasyJet (don't fly with RyanAir - too ghetto). Just a pain to get to some of the smaller airports.

While the airlfare seems cheap, don't forget all the cost to and from airport (for example, it cost 13 Euro one way to reach Paris downtown from the airport used by Ryanair. It cost me 15 GBP by public transport to reach Glasgow Prestwick airport !). Dont forget most of the flight time are crap. Also, one has to take account of all the waiting time in airport.

Trains take you right into downtown. Gives you tons of convenience and freedom. Eurail pass or the select pass is a great deal in westerrn Europe.

The best way is a combination of rail pass and flights. :)

Oh, the absolutely most wonderful site for train schedules in the entire europe is DB website..,
www.bahn.de (select international guest to get into English menu)

hope that helps.

[karam]

i just got back form europe this summer.

flying is not really cheaper, once you add in transport to and from airport, etc. plus its not as flexible as the trains.

i used http://www.seat61.com/ to plan a lot of my trips.

i bought a railpass, but found it to be cheaper to just follow the instructions on this site instead, and buy point-to-point...unless you're going long distances, the pass is a ripoff...there's always sales and stuff that you shoudl look into closer to your trip.

[Talamasca]

I guess it depends on what airports the airlines use. I've never flown Ryanair but from their map, they tend to use really obscure airports. Easyjet tends to use the major airports so the costs to get from the airport to the city centre are usually pretty reasonable. I've flown easyjet a lot and have landed at London Gatwick, Venice Marco Polo, Amsterdam Schipol, and Prague Ruzyne, all of which are major airports and have cheap connections to the city centre.

[Pete_Coach]

I guess it depends on what airports the airlines use. I've never flown Ryanair but from their map, they tend to use really obscure airports. Easyjet tends to use the major airports so the costs to get from the airport to the city centre are usually pretty reasonable. I've flown easyjet a lot and have landed at London Gatwick, Venice Marco Polo, Amsterdam Schipol, and Prague Ruzyne, all of which are major airports and have cheap connections to the city centre.

The train still is the best way. Not just considering the to and from airport issue, but the time you need to spend being in the airport. If you have reserved seating on the train you need to arrive only a few minutes before departure, get on and go. No hanging around airports or going through airport security. Also, taxes for the flights will add to the "cheap" ticket.
I have also traveled RyanAir and Easyjet, just loved the whole human cargo experience but then again, as always, you get what you pay for.

[toujours]

If you're using the high speed trains with your railpass, then total travel times will probably be lower than taking the plane too. Think about it with this Lyon - Paris example (I assume your hotel is in town centre)

TRAIN
Time to go from hotel to train station - 20 minutes
You arrive early to get on board - 20 minutes
Travel time - 2 hours
Get out of station and to your hotel : 30 minutes

That's just over 3 hours.

PLANE
Time to get from hotel to airport - 30 minutes
You must arrive before flight : 2 hours
Flight time : almost 1 hour
Get off plane, get luggage : 15 minutes
Go to your hotel : 30 minutes

That's about 4 hours !

And also, if you miss the train, there's another one in an hour's time - not always the case with the low cost airlines...

[Talamasca]

That's about 4 hours !

And also, if you miss the train, there's another one in an hour's time - not always the case with the low cost airlines...

Agreed. For short journeys, a train will usually have the advantage. But if I need to get from, say, Venice to Paris, I'd much rather fly and pay less than take an overnight train.

[Initial_C]

it kinda depends on your route and your schedule. if you don't have much time but can afford the money, go by plane for the wide gaps and just buy single tickets. if you do have time, go by train. or you can do a cheaper way by train is to get a pass. but instead of getting yourself a pass that lets you travel for a certain block of time (ie: a month), you can choose to purchase a pass that allows you to travel for say 10 trips/days on a train. that's what I did while in Europe. It really depends on how you're travelling, what your comfort zone is and how much you can afford.

[Goldilocks]

http://bahn.hafas.de/bin/query.exe/en

While most other countries only give you information on their own trains, the German site lists all of Europe, which is great if you are crossing multiple countries.

We found the trains to be comfortable and clean.

Ryan Air while much cheaper, you get what you pay for. The boarding system is similar to cattle herding, the airports that it uses are very, very far, it's like flying into Toronto, but the airport is actually in Niagara Falls. There can also be tons of delays with their flights so if you are on a tight schedule forget it.

We used Ryan Air in Milan, Venice and Paris. Coming back to Paris one time, the flight was so late leaving, that bare minutes before landing we were told that all Airports in France were closed because it was so late and as a result we were being taken to Brussels and where we would be promptly bused back to Paris.

Instead of arriving at 10:00 pm like we were supposed to, we ended up arriving at Beauvais at 5:00 Am after a 3hr surprise bus ride They were all very nice and polite and buses were very good, but it did not make for a very good 8 AM start to my work day.

Having said that, I still think Ryan Air is great if you've got little money the distances are far, you've got lots of flexibility and spare time, otherwise read a book, listen to your ipod and enjoy the scenery ... take the train.

[soundsgreat]

The DB site at www.rail.de is great for Germany, and for most other countries I'll use the Swiss rail site at www.rail.ch. If you are travelling in Switzerland, the www.rail.ch site allows you to put in a street address and it will give you complete directions, including the bus. The transit system in Switzerland is amazing - on time and completely integrated.

Czech, on the other hand, was always at least 15-30 mins late for us. Fortunately, every train was late, so we never missed a connection. Don't buy a rail pass for Czech - point to point tickets are much cheaper. (Typically 10-12 Canadian for a 4 hour trip - compare that to 90 Euro or more in Germany and you will see why the rail pass is worth it in Germany, but not Czech.)

To find out the price for any point to point ticket (even across international borders), this is the only site I've found that gives you prices: http://www.jizdenka.cz. It is in Czech, just click the UK flag, then click on International Tarrif Calculator at the top for destinations outside Czech.

Train travel is the most relaxing way to travel, you get to see the country side, and you usually arrive in the middle of the city. (And you don't have to worry about extra baggage fees, etc.)

[gleberental]

when my SO & backpacked for 5 months in 2004, we mixed it up... sometimes by bus, sometimes by rail, sometimes by air.

we flew from london gatwick to faro, portugal on a cheap charter, then mostly by bus throughout the south of portugal and spain... took a LONG overnight train from granada to barcelona.

we were headed for greece, and had the weather been nicer (it was february in one of the coldest winters on recent record) we probably would have continued bumping along through the south of france and down italy, across to greece.

...as it was, i concluded, CRAZY as it was, that the quickest & cheapest way to get from barcelona down close to greece was to fly ryanair from barcelona (well, really the airport was a 1.5 hr. busride outside) to london stanstead, sleep overnight in the airport (with a mob of drunken swedish fotball supporters) then fly back out in the morning, down to palermo in sicily!
...from there we went by train across sicily and then across the south of italy to brindisi, to catch the ferry to greece.

there are so many small air carriers flying into odd places, that you should try to figure out where in general you want to go, then see who flies near there... as a result, you'll likely end up passing through somewhere you might not otherwise have considered visiting (like us in sicily).

we didn't get a rail pass because we didn't really know where we wanted to go ahead of time, and because once we got places, we liked to hang around for a few days or a week if we liked the place (as was the case in lisbon and barcelona).
...rail passes seem like they work best if you don't mind always being on the move, and you have a fairly clear idea of the points you want to hit -- or alternately, if you don't have must sees, you can do as a friend of mine once did: wander around whatever place he was in during the day, and book passage on a direct train that was headed out that evening, and would reach it's destination in the morning... thus eliminating the need for overnight accomodations!

cheers,
michael

[GangStarr]

http://oebb.at

can get you door to door anywhere in Europe with their new tool Scotty. Including bus connections to ski resorts and such. Its in english too.

I don't think it shows pricing.

Eurail passes are great and really pay off if they include expensive trains like the ICE trains in Germany (300 km/h trains) but keep in mind, In europe, particularly western europe, you will either live very cheap (cook for yourself, pre drink, find out when museums are free, 16 person hostels) or the most expensive place you will ever be (get drunk at the bar, eat out, hotel rooms)

Eurail passes are generally not valid in eastern european countries. You may find after spending a few weeks in places like france, italy and holland that the Czech Republic will be more fun (still generally cheap)

[deal_shopper]

So it is better to buy rail tickets when you get to the country, rather than in Canada? I am going in July and already know my itinerary. I am taking some flights which I will book ahead of time, but I wasn't sure about the rail tickets- how often are there "specials" and when do they usually occur? Do prices go up or down closer to the date? How often to trains get full before the date of travel? Any help is appreciated.

[asdfvcx]

So it is better to buy rail tickets when you get to the country, rather than in Canada?
Rail passes need to be bought in Canada. Normal rail tickets are almost always cheaper to buy in Europe.

but I wasn't sure about the rail tickets- how often are there "specials" and when do they usually occur? Do prices go up or down closer to the date? How often to trains get full before the date of travel?
Specials are quite rare. Some countries give you a bit of a discount if you buy a couple of weeks (or days) early. I know France gives a small discount, and the UK can give larger discounts. (But the UK rail system is run quite differently that the rest of Europe)

However, in most countries buying the ticket 5 minutes before you get on the train is the same price as buying it months in advance.

Trains get full when they are popular, but it's hard to give a blanket statement. Friday evening before a long weekend, trains may be full. Trains heading into a city the day before a major festival may be full. A guidebook or just asking someone at a hotel or hostel, will usually be able to give you advice on trains you might need to book ahead.

[deal_shopper]

Thanks for the info. I had considered getting a 4-day in 2 months Italy-France rail pass, but I think I will just check the individual rail sites before I go to see what the fares are like, and either book through them ahead of time, or just wait until I get there.

[heymikey]

Thanks for the info. I had considered getting a 4-day in 2 months Italy-France rail pass, but I think I will just check the individual rail sites before I go to see what the fares are like, and either book through them ahead of time, or just wait until I get there.
Check out RailSaver (http://railsaver.com/railsaver.asp) to see if railpasses are worth it. Make sure you select "Only if railpasses save me money" from the selection.

[asdfvcx]

Thanks for the info. I had considered getting a 4-day in 2 months Italy-France rail pass, but I think I will just check the individual rail sites before I go to see what the fares are like, and either book through them ahead of time, or just wait until I get there.
If you take a look at the links to Rick Steves' websites I posted last year (on the 2nd entry on this thread), you can quickly estimate the price of individual tickets and determine if a rail pass is worth it.

[GemInite]

with the eurostar. When i was doing research a 1 way ticket bought online in Canada before hand would have cost me just over $100.

I had a friend in paris at the time and asked her to check it out. Buying it locally cost $80 return. However it was cheaper cuz I had her buy it a few months in advance.

[GangStarr]

with the eurostar. When i was doing research a 1 way ticket bought online in Canada before hand would have cost me just over $100.

I had a friend in paris at the time and asked her to check it out. Buying it locally cost $80 return. However it was cheaper cuz I had her buy it a few months in advance.

Advanced tickets are of course cheaper. You pretty much have to live in Europe to get them.

The only thing I would buy related to trains in Canada is the EUrail pass. Not tickets to a specific train or date.

[AzN_RiverdaleCI]

Europe trains are ownage.

[b166er1337]

Advanced tickets are of course cheaper. You pretty much have to live in Europe to get them.

The only thing I would buy related to trains in Canada is the EUrail pass. Not tickets to a specific train or date.

I bought the youth Swiss pass here in Canada, along with 2 other rail tickets that is operated by private rail lines. What the travel agency fails to tell me is that once I have the Swiss pass, all other private rail tickets are half priced if I buy the tickets over in Switzerland.

Of course, I wont be visiting them again.

[GangStarr]

I bought the youth Swiss pass here in Canada, along with 2 other rail tickets that is operated by private rail lines. What the travel agency fails to tell me is that once I have the Swiss pass, all other private rail tickets are half priced if I buy the tickets over in Switzerland.

Of course, I wont be visiting them again.
Never heard of private rail, but I basically only visited Interlaken (though I took a train through Zurich and Bern) Then the Deutsch Bahn ICE to Berlin. My EUrail pass + reservations covered all the trains I took.

I'll stand by my point, stick to buying tickets in Europe and EUrail passes here. raileurope.com has some excellent cheap passes as well.

[Pete_Coach]

I find that http://www.seat61.com/ is a very useful site for anything about trains in Europe (or other places in the World).
This guy has put together lots and lots of info and answers to almost every question you can imaging. Try it out.

[b166er1337]

Never heard of private rail, but I basically only visited Interlaken (though I took a train through Zurich and Bern) Then the Deutsch Bahn ICE to Berlin. My EUrail pass + reservations covered all the trains I took.

I'll stand by my point, stick to buying tickets in Europe and EUrail passes here. raileurope.com has some excellent cheap passes as well.

Some of the most scenic rail route / gondola in Switzerland is privately owned. You get 50% off the cover price if you have Swiss pass, and only 25% off if you have eurail pass.

[deal_shopper]

thanks for everyone's help!