Formula - Help me figure out costs,types and brands

[scoop]

Having our first child in July. We are going to try to use formula and want to use Nestle Good Start with Omega 3 and 6 if the baby agrees with it.

Was planning on getting the powder, but then saw thise thread where a poster indicates the concentrate is cheaper then the powder.

http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4484657&postcount=7

What I cant figure out is how much formula we will need? I know it will depend on the kid - but ballpark figure how many bottles of formula per day are we looking at? And how much powder or concentrate does it take to make a bottle?

[3weddings]

You can count on 6-8 bottles per day the first month (about 3oz per feeding) and this will change to about 5 to 6 bottles per day. The easiest way to calculate how much is to take the baby's weight and divide it by 2 to get the oz. (ie an 8lb baby will drink 4oz per bottle).

A can of liquid yields 26 oz which must be used within 24 hours once prepared.

HTH

Also, out of curiosity, why are you choosing formula over breastfeeding? I am not advocating it, I just get curious with first time parents as to why they choose one over the other.

[scoop]

You can count on 6-8 bottles per day the first month (about 3oz per feeding) and this will change to about 5 to 6 bottles per day. The easiest way to calculate how much is to take the baby's weight and divide it by 2 to get the oz. (ie an 8lb baby will drink 4oz per bottle).

A can of liquid yields 26 oz which must be used within 24 hours once prepared.

HTH

Also, out of curiosity, why are you choosing formula over breastfeeding? I am not advocating it, I just get curious with first time parents as to why they choose one over the other.
Thanks for the help - so let me see if I have this straight assuming 4oz per feeding?

A can of concentrate is 13oz. Mixes at a rate of 1-1 with water. So I can get about 6 feedings per can (4oz of formula = 2oz of concentrate and 2oz of water).

A can of powder is 730grams. The instructions say 8.7grams per scoop so I assume this means 83 scoops per can. Mixes at a rate of 1-2 with water. So 2 scoops of powder and 4oz of water would give a 4oz bottle of formula. So I can get about 41 feedings per can.

Does this make sense? Just want to make sure I have this correct to determine the most cost effective version.

To answer your second question re breastfeeding. This is a decision I have left up to my wife (for obvious reasons :cheesygri ), and she wishes to use formula.

[3weddings]

Your calculation sounds right. The one thing you are giving up with powder is convenience. With the liquid I bought a larger juice jug with a seal, and I would make the whole can at once. You will find with powder you won't do that, plus it's a bit messier to prepare. But it is more cost effective I think.

Your wife is smart, when using formula both of you are involved with feeding the wee one. I mean if she were to express, certainly you would be able to feed the baby as well, but that rarely happens. I was exclusively BFd and dh missed out on a lot of bonding :(, plus it allowed him the excuse of not getting up for the middle of the night feeding :razz:

[scoop]

Your calculation sounds right. The one thing you are giving up with powder is convenience. With the liquid I bought a larger juice jug with a seal, and I would make the whole can at once. You will find with powder you won't do that, plus it's a bit messier to prepare. But it is more cost effective I think.

Your wife is smart, when using formula both of you are involved with feeding the wee one. I mean if she were to express, certainly you would be able to feed the baby as well, but that rarely happens. I was exclusively BFd and dh missed out on a lot of bonding :(, plus it allowed him the excuse of not getting up for the middle of the night feeding :razz:

Well thats the strange thing. With walmart prices the can of 730g goes for $29. A case of 12x385ml (13oz) concentrate cans goes for $44.

So for the powder Im getting $29 / 41 feedings = $.70 per feeding.
For the concentrate Im getting $44 / (6x12 = 72 feedings) = $.61 per feeding.

Seems like a no brainer to go with the concentrate if its cheaper and more convenient?

[Kranberry]

Well ymmv but at the local Loblaws, I used to use the Ready to Feed cans of Enfamil A+. Each pack of 4 has a coupon for $3 off and each pack of 4 is $9. The coupon is supposed to be for a case of concentrate, a can of powder, or a case of ready to feed (which is 4 packs of 4 for 16 cans). One can is approximately 8oz so 2 feeds for you.

Back to my point, at the local Loblaws, 99% of the time I got a cashier that would let me use the $3 coupon for each pack of 4. I've only been turned down twice, and I just didn't buy them and came back another day to another cashier that would give it to me.

So using your calculations $6 for a pack of 4 that is 8 feedings so $6 / 8 = .75 per feeding. Yes it is more expensive than either of your methods, but the bonus is, you don't have to mix ANYTHING. You shake the can, open it and feed. Great for on the go.

[scoop]

Well ymmv but at the local Loblaws, I used to use the Ready to Feed cans of Enfamil A+. Each pack of 4 has a coupon for $3 off and each pack of 4 is $9. The coupon is supposed to be for a case of concentrate, a can of powder, or a case of ready to feed (which is 4 packs of 4 for 16 cans). One can is approximately 8oz so 2 feeds for you.

Back to my point, at the local Loblaws, 99% of the time I got a cashier that would let me use the $3 coupon for each pack of 4. I've only been turned down twice, and I just didn't buy them and came back another day to another cashier that would give it to me.

So using your calculations $6 for a pack of 4 that is 8 feedings so $6 / 8 = .75 per feeding. Yes it is more expensive than either of your methods, but the bonus is, you don't have to mix ANYTHING. You shake the can, open it and feed. Great for on the go.

This brings up another good point. How do you choose the brand of formula to use? just go with one and see how the baby likes it?

We want a dairy based (not soy) and want Omega 3/6.
The three major brands seem to be:

Similac Advance
Enfamil A+
Nestle Good Start



Is any one better then the other?

Also all these sites seem to offer a "sign up package" where they offer you a bunch of free swag, coupons and formula. Is it worth it to sign up for these sites with multiple addresses to get multiples of the free stuff? I could use my parents, brothers etc addresses?

[Kranberry]

This brings up another good point. How do you choose the brand of formula to use? just go with one and see how the baby likes it?

We want a dairy based (not soy) and want Omega 3/6.
The three major brands seem to be:

Similac Advance
Enfamil A+
Nestle Good Start



Is any one better then the other?

Also all these sites seem to offer a "sign up package" where they offer you a bunch of free swag, coupons and formula. Is it worth it to sign up for these sites with multiple addresses to get multiples of the free stuff? I could use my parents, brothers etc addresses?

I didn't know Enfamil and Similac had sign ups. I wish I knew that a few months back. I did sign up to Nestle online, and Nestle at Thyme maternity and we got 2 backpacks, 2 Avent 9oz bottles, 2 cans of powder formula (soy or regular) depending on what you pick, some coupons, a freezer pack, a reusable change pad, baby on board, etc. They also send coupons every once in a while, and I did get some samples of Nestle cereals too now. It is definitely worth signing up once if not multiple times.

[Bullseye]

I'm amazed that anyone in this day and age still voluntarily gives their children formula. I can understand if you are in the very small minority of people who physically can't breastfeed, but planning for formula before even trying? The benefits of breastfeeding are major, and well documented, there is not even a debate about it. Why deprive your child of a head start in life unless you absolutely have to?

[scoop]

I'm amazed that anyone in this day and age still voluntarily gives their children formula. I can understand if you are in the very small minority of people who physically can't breastfeed, but planning for formula before even trying? The benefits of breastfeeding are major, and well documented, there is not even a debate about it. Why deprive your child of a head start in life unless you absolutely have to?
Good to know your thoughts. Id appreciate you starting your own thread if you like so we can keep this one on topic.

TIA

[Kranberry]

I'm amazed that anyone in this day and age still voluntarily gives their children formula. I can understand if you are in the very small minority of people who physically can't breastfeed, but planning for formula before even trying? The benefits of breastfeeding are major, and well documented, there is not even a debate about it. Why deprive your child of a head start in life unless you absolutely have to?

Just as I am amazed that anyone would force an ideal onto anyone else in this day and age and where we live? Not being physically able to breastfeed obviously is a good reason not to, but it doesn't make it the only reason. People are different and have differing reasons, whether physically or emotionally to breast feed. Please show me to the documentation that includes hard facts that the benefits are major, I know there are benefits, but I don't believe they are major. I do believe there can be a debate.

A good read. Basically stating what I said above, benefits yes, but how much nobody really knows and to what extent. Too many variables and methods to be sure, and most data is old. Besides just because I talk about using formula does not necessarily mean that my baby did not get breast milk. In fact my baby was on breast milk, but we had reasons that we needed to supplement with formula.

http://www.stats.org/stories/breast_feed_nyt_jun_20_06.htm


Sorry to get off topic.

[Gaffer]

This brings up another good point. How do you choose the brand of formula to use? just go with one and see how the baby likes it?

We want a dairy based (not soy) and want Omega 3/6.
The three major brands seem to be:

Similac Advance
Enfamil A+
Nestle Good Start

We started using the Similac Advance, because that is what we were given in the hospital. (*Note to the nipple nazis, my wife has a medical condition that does not allow her to BF, and we opted to feed our baby)

We used it for about 6 months, and were pleased with it. Here in Alberta it is hard to find, and then Walmart increased the price from $29 to $38 per case of 12 cans of concentrate.

We switched to the PC brand of concentrate with Omega 3&6 and accoring to the labels they are virtually identical.

They can be found at RCSS/Loblaws for about $24 per case.

If you baby will tolerate it, this is another option for you.

We also found the liquid concentrate to be cheaper, and easier than the powders. The powders never really mixed fully so you have to shake the bottle before feeding, making it full of bubbles which caused gas.

For convenience we have a can of ready-made in the diaper bag.

Gaf

[vistaliving]

PC is made by Abott Labs.

They also make Similac, Similac Advance, Similac NeoCare, Isomil , Isomil DF, Gain

[3weddings]

Just came across this comparison by Sam's Club tooting Member's Marks horn

http://www.membersmarkformula.com/compare-infant-formulas.asp

[Gaffer]

PC is made by Abott Labs.

They also make Similac, Similac Advance, Similac NeoCare, Isomil , Isomil DF, Gain

I had a hunch that they were made by the same manufacturer since all the values on the label are almost identical. They even smell the same.

Good to know, and I like the fact that the PC stuff is cheaper by about $14 per case.

Gaf

[scoop]

PC is made by Abott Labs.

They also make Similac, Similac Advance, Similac NeoCare, Isomil , Isomil DF, Gain

interesting. Does the PC stuff have Omega 3 and 6. need the brain food. :cheesygri

[tomincanada]

Just as I am amazed that anyone would force an ideal onto anyone else in this day and age and where we live? Not being physically able to breastfeed obviously is a good reason not to, but it doesn't make it the only reason. People are different and have differing reasons, whether physically or emotionally to breast feed. Please show me to the documentation that includes hard facts that the benefits are major, I know there are benefits, but I don't believe they are major. I do believe there can be a debate.


http://www.naturalfamilyonline.com/articles/312-formula-report.htm

According to this article there is statistical evidence breastfeeding cuts infant mortality rates in half. I'm not advocating this article, mind you, but I do believe most research backs these conclusions at least in part.

I apologize to the OP for contributing to the threadjacking - but I don't feel that it's an accurate conclusion for someone to say the benefits of breastfeeding *aren't* major. Most studies seem to indicate they are.

[Gaffer]

interesting. Does the PC stuff have Omega 3 and 6. need the brain food. :cheesygri

Yes look for the box that says Omega 3 and 6, it is called Plus. The cans/box are light blue with a picture of a babies hand holding a womans finger. It has all the brain food in there, the rest is up to you.

Gaf

[scoop]

Yes look for the box that says Omega 3 and 6, it is called Plus. The cans/box are light blue with a picture of a babies hand holding a womans finger. It has all the brain food in there, the rest is up to you.

Gaf
Thanks - ill check that out.

[kaimui22]

my baby will only take Nestle Goodstart...does anyone know if there's a 'generic' or supermarket brand that's the same and/or similar? My son cannot take similac or enfamal..it makes him really cranky, gassy and constipated

we've tried all three brands and unfortunately Nestle is the most expensive..but best tolerated..it also has the least bubbles when mixed

[ai_c]

i want to slowly wean my baby now because he's starting to bite me (he got 2 teeth now). i've given him some formula before when he was a month or 2 (but stopped since breastfeeding was easier), but now he refuses to take the bottle. i have noticed that when i give him his bottle now, he gives me this ewww look. i'm thinking maybe he does not like the taste of formula anymore. now, my question is (and wondering), do formulas (powedered) have this strong scent? he was taking similac advance. i'm thinking of switching formula to make him take the bottle.

[scoop]

i want to slowly wean my baby now because he's starting to bite me (he got 2 teeth now). i've given him some formula before when he was a month or 2 (but stopped since breastfeeding was easier), but now he refuses to take the bottle. i have noticed that when i give him his bottle now, he gives me this ewww look. i'm thinking maybe he does not like the taste of formula anymore. now, my question is (and wondering), do formulas (powedered) have this strong scent? he was taking similac advance. i'm thinking of switching formula to make him take the bottle.
not much experience here :) but what if you tried breastmilk in a bottle first to get him used to the bottle, then went with the formula after that?

[Toronto]

Hey Scoop, just to let you know, powdered formula tastes TERRIBLE. Pre-mixed formula tastes much sweeter. I know this because I taste tested it myself because my kid wouldn't take powdered formula but he takes the premixed stuff most of the time. Also based on my calculations on the amount of powder formula the can itself says it can yield, the pre-mixed stuff came out cheaper by a bit.

A side note, breastfeeding is indeed better but my mom told me I was exclusively formula fed and I came out fine aside from the occassional urges to steal (joke).

[sdm242]

i want to slowly wean my baby now because he's starting to bite me (he got 2 teeth now). i've given him some formula before when he was a month or 2 (but stopped since breastfeeding was easier), but now he refuses to take the bottle. i have noticed that when i give him his bottle now, he gives me this ewww look. i'm thinking maybe he does not like the taste of formula anymore. now, my question is (and wondering), do formulas (powedered) have this strong scent? he was taking similac advance. i'm thinking of switching formula to make him take the bottle.

If you're determined to stop breastfeeding, I would try pumping some breastmilk and mixing it in with a small amount of formula. Then gradually reduce the amount of breastmilk until you're at 100% formula. I'm not sure how old your son is, but you may also want to try using a sippy cup instead of a bottle for the formula.

BUT...the biting thing can be dealt with, without stopping breastfeeding. I breastfed my two girls (for an extended length of time) and went through the biting stage which was short-lived for both of them. This website is a great resource for any breastfeeding mom and has some suggestions for dealing with biting. http://www.kellymom.com/bf/older-baby/biting.html

[vistaliving]

Just a note of caution.

http://www.inspection.gc.ca/english/corpaffr/newcom/2007/20070308be.shtml

[billybee]

When my wife was in Med school, they were telling new moms that Nestle Good Start with Omega 3/6 (not the older one which doesn't have this brainfood but is much cheaper) is the closest to breast milk. She is still breastfeeding at 6 months (which means I never got up for feedings...boo). She'll be going back to work soon and I will have to get this stuff. Weird that liquid would be cheaper than powder?

[Kranberry]

http://www.naturalfamilyonline.com/articles/312-formula-report.htm

According to this article there is statistical evidence breastfeeding cuts infant mortality rates in half. I'm not advocating this article, mind you, but I do believe most research backs these conclusions at least in part.

I apologize to the OP for contributing to the threadjacking - but I don't feel that it's an accurate conclusion for someone to say the benefits of breastfeeding *aren't* major. Most studies seem to indicate they are.

Sorry to threadjack too, I am an advocate for breastfeeding, but at the same time, there are reasons one may need to use formula feeding and I was just defending the right for a parent to go that route if they needed to. The original message i was referring to made it sound like you were evil to even think of formula feeding.

Having said that, your's is just an article based on opinion and numbers, but where did they get the numbers? Don't get me wrong, they are probably fairly accurate, but to tell you the truth, I have worked in medical research (maternal and infant research) and know my fair share of the research out there. Here are some abstracts from medical texts.

Here's one showing basically that the immune system is no STATISTICAL significance from formula to breast fed.
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/72/5/1202

Here's a study of parents where although not significant p=0.02, that the breast fed group had more SIDS cases.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=1111439&query_hl=7&itool=pubmed_DocSum

What I'm trying to show is that without the source material, you don't know if there are other factors affecting the outcome that could be of significance. What if all the infant formula babies had smoking parents that smoked with the baby in the room. The above links are to show that there are 2 sides to all studies, and without knowing all the factors of the study (were they blinded or double-blinded), etc, it could go either way. I have seen studies on both sides.

I do reiterate that I am an advocate for breast feeding, but I'm also an advocate for free choice. I don't think I should be ramming my ideals or anything on anyone. I can give them facts, but it is up to the person to choose what path to follow.

[ai_c]

scoop,

i tried pumping and putting it on a bottle, it didnt went well. he was just biting and chewing on the nipple. i've tried introducing sippy cups as well but is not working well either. i am soo tempted to switch formula just to get him started on the bottle. last weekend, i bought a different kind of nipple and still not much of luck with it. he is still biting and chewing it.

sdm242,

i've read the link that you had posted and was doing as suggested. stopping and letting go. he is 6 months old and has 2 teeths already, the third one (top one) coming anytime soon as i can see and feel it already. we will be travelling in october so if i can wean him slowly, it will be easier for all of us.

[Cyber6]

scoop,

i tried pumping and putting it on a bottle, it didnt went well. he was just biting and chewing on the nipple. i've tried introducing sippy cups as well but is not working well either. i am soo tempted to switch formula just to get him started on the bottle. last weekend, i bought a different kind of nipple and still not much of luck with it. he is still biting and chewing it.

sdm242,

i've read the link that you had posted and was doing as suggested. stopping and letting go. he is 6 months old and has 2 teeths already, the third one (top one) coming anytime soon as i can see and feel it already. we will be travelling in october so if i can wean him slowly, it will be easier for all of us.

First cardinal rule in introducing a bottle is that NEVER do it yourself (the breastfeeding mom). This is the time to ask all your best friends to help you by giving the bottle to your child. It works best when the mom is nowhere near. If your baby knows you are around, he/she will wait forever (cry forever) until you pick him/her up. If he/she is hungry and you are not around (can't smell you) then he/she will eventually take the bottle.

I have wean many babies this way (never my own of course). Mom goes for a long coffee at exactly baby's dinnertime and it is only me and a bottle. :twisted:


C.

[jccc]

Even if the evidence of "major" health or mental benefits to be had from breastfeeding can't be proven, the major savings definately can!

If you're worried that as the non lactating partner you wouldn't be able to participate in the night time feedings, you could always go get the baby when he wakes up, change his diaper and deliver him to mom who's waiting all snug in the bed for the feeding, then when it's all over, take the baby back to bed and settle him down to sleep again.

[scoop]

Think we are going to go with the good start with omegas concentrate... Hopefully it all goes well. Baby due in 5 weeks!

[MegaSilver]

We have a 2 week old and are wondering how much she should be feeding. She's 8 lbs. Currently, we are feeding her roughly 70 ml of formula a feed, every 3 hours. I have heard "WOW, that's a lot", and "You need to feed her more than that, less often".

I'm trying to convince my wife to gradually over the next few days work our way to 4 hour cycles of 100 ml. She is content to let her take what she wants, when she wants (at the expense of our sleep).

Any thoughts?

[ash101]

We have a 2 week old and are wondering how much she should be feeding. She's 8 lbs. Currently, we are feeding her roughly 70 ml of formula a feed, every 3 hours. I have heard "WOW, that's a lot", and "You need to feed her more than that, less often".

I'm trying to convince my wife to gradually over the next few days work our way to 4 hour cycles of 100 ml. She is content to let her take what she wants, when she wants (at the expense of our sleep).

Any thoughts?

70ml for 2 weeks old, I think that's quite a lot.
I fed him 1-2oz (30-60ml) per feed every 3 hrs and never over 2oz.
I don't advice you to feed her more and less often. You baby is still too young to eat a lot at once. And most of time you have to wake up your baby at 3 hrs cycle because she prefers sleep than eat at her age. Mine is 2.5mths old and still on 3 hrs cycle. I am trying to train him skip one meal at night but never successed yet. I will suggest you try to longer the cycle after one mth old if you want.

[ai_c]

i have a chart give to me by the public health nurse and on it for 4 days - 2 weeks, it says 6-10 feedings each day with 2-3oz each bottle.

[scoop]

i have a chart give to me by the public health nurse and on it for 4 days - 2 weeks, it says 6-10 feedings each day with 2-3oz each bottle.
Is it a big chart? Do you think you might be able to scan that in and post it?

[ai_c]

it's a page length. i'll scan and post it later.

edit: here's the scanned document

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y267/ai133n/Picture002-1.jpg

[scoop]

it's a page length. i'll scan and post it later.

edit: here's the scanned document


Thanks! We had our baby 5 weeks early and she was only 5-11 and drinking about 20mls a feeding. Now she is up to 12 days old and drinking about 60-70mls every 3 hours.

We went with the good start with omegas concentrate and the nurse gave us a great tip. Bought a carafe and boil water each day and fill the carafe. Water stays hot all day long. Fill as many bottles as you want with the concentrate. we want 80 ml bottles right now so we put 40 mls of concentrate in the bottles and put them in the fridge. At feeding time dump 40mls of hot water into the bottle and you are ready to go, with the hot and cold mixing to the right temp for the baby.