is foreign experience looked down in Canada?

[march9]

I am a first year engineering student. I might get the chance to work in China this summer for Alstom, it is internship therefore unpaid. Do you think I should go? Will employers overlook my experience because it is not Canadian? Should I stay in Canada searching for other jobs/internships? I think first year students have very hard time searching for related summer jobs not to mention my mark is not greatest.

I know immigrants have trouble finding jobs because their foreign experience is not recognized, but does it also matter for student summer jobs and internships?

and in case you are wondering..I got it through connection, I think it is very good opportunity for a first year student.

[divx]

I am a first year engineering student. I might get the chance to work in China this summer for Alstom, it is internship therefore unpaid. Do you think I should go? Will employers overlook my experience because it is not Canadian? Should I stay in Canada searching for other jobs/internships? I think first year students have very hard time searching for related summer jobs not to mention my mark is not greatest.

I know immigrants have trouble finding jobs because their foreign experience is not recognized, but does it also matter for student summer jobs and internships?

and in case you are wondering..I got it through connection, I think it is very good opportunity for a first year student.
Live your life the way you wanted, it feels much better that way. I would think you are better off getting a job here in NA as foreign jobs are usually not verifiable. But then again, first year students do have difficulty getting a job so it's up to you.

BTW, you got connections and that only gets you an unpaid position over in China? Do they at least cover your plane ticket?

[seifer333]

I think for internship is a good opportunity, especially when you are young and you can go see the world. If money is not a problem for you, several months in China won't cost you a fortune. Even if the experience is offshore, if the company is recgonize in NA, it should be good.

I wish i had the chance to see the world when I was young like you. No restrication no worries.

Which part of China are you going to? You speak fluent Mandarin? Trust me, they don't speak any English...

[Flame_lily]

I'd say go... in a heartbeat. So companies may not recognise foreign experience BUT you'll have gained valuable skills. Its your skillset that matters. I am a foreign trained professional & had a hardtime getting into my field but once I got in, I had a definate edge over my colleagues coz of my skills & ability to think outside the box due to exposure. What do you stand to lose? Summer slinging burgers?

[toujours]

I know immigrants have trouble finding jobs because their foreign experience is not recognized.
It's actually 50% "all immigrants are lazy until proven otherwise". It's as if working in China, Europe or wherever was easier or something :confused: .

And 50% protectionism (it's North America after all).

[Firebot]

Foreign experience is looked down upon, simply because in most cases it is unverifiable, and the work expected can be subpar. It is the same for foreign diplomas. You cannot get a degree in a foreign country, and expect it to be recognized in Canada. In most cases, the person has to retake part or all of the degree within Canada.

It has nothing to do with protectionism, and everything to do with quality control.

[boyoflondon]

Look at it this way. Do you really care if someone is going to recognize it or not? Chances that you will find such a position here in canada are slim to none, so really, you have nothing to loose. At the end of the day, YOU will be better off as you will gain more knowledge and hands on experience that will help you in the future studies/job.


You cannot get a degree in a foreign country, and expect it to be recognized in Canada.


Why shouldnt someone expect to have their degree recognized in Canada? Is Canada's education really "better"? Coming from a European country, I can tell you that education back there is far more tougher than in Canada. While I was doing paper-mache here in grade 8, my peers back home were battling chemistry, biology, physics, advanced math and foreign languages.

[hurryhard]

Most employers don't look down on Foreign experience, it just doesn't count for much when compared to applicants with Canadian experience. In engineering, there are certain Canadian-specific standards that must be applied with every job, and knowledge of those standards is crucial. Working knowledge of these standards is what sets applicants apart.

Since you are schooled in Canada, finding a job within Canada will be no harder for you than your classmates. If you are one of the lucky few who have directly related job experiences within your field, then you have a leg up on everyone. Personally, I prefer to see actual engineering experiences on resumés, rather than "went home, pumped gas for the summer".

[toujours]

Coming from a European country, I can tell you that education back there is far more tougher than in Canada. While I was doing paper-mache here in grade 8, my peers back home were battling chemistry, biology, physics, advanced math and foreign languages.
Papier-maché is a VERY important skill set to have :D :D

[Kohanz]

I am a first year engineering student. I might get the chance to work in China this summer for Alstom, it is internship therefore unpaid. Do you think I should go? Will employers overlook my experience because it is not Canadian? Should I stay in Canada searching for other jobs/internships? I think first year students have very hard time searching for related summer jobs not to mention my mark is not greatest.

I know immigrants have trouble finding jobs because their foreign experience is not recognized, but does it also matter for student summer jobs and internships?

and in case you are wondering..I got it through connection, I think it is very good opportunity for a first year student.

Have you looked into paid co-op/internship opportunities in Canada or elsewhere? I mean, you're first year, yeah, but still, working for free is awfully nice of you when there are paid opportunities out there that still offer great experience.

[trusoulja2g]

Yes, foreign experience doesn't count for much in Canada.
Since you're in first year, it depends what your other options are...what kind of summer jobs you can find here.

Internship in China is better than nothing. And just as important, spending a few months in China is a ton of fun.

[Supershyguy]

I am a first year engineering student. I might get the chance to work in China this summer for Alstom, it is internship therefore unpaid. Do you think I should go? Will employers overlook my experience because it is not Canadian? Should I stay in Canada searching for other jobs/internships? I think first year students have very hard time searching for related summer jobs not to mention my mark is not greatest.

I know immigrants have trouble finding jobs because their foreign experience is not recognized, but does it also matter for student summer jobs and internships?

and in case you are wondering..I got it through connection, I think it is very good opportunity for a first year student.

my friend did this, and now he found a job here in GE, and he said he learned more in China.

and it sounded like he had fun in China. he said that with his Canadian pay, he lived like a King there lol

[adehbone]

why would a good internship overseas we looked down upon? its better than working at KFC or Pizza Pizza......so you should go and experience life....alot of eng companies want ppl nowadays not robots.....and traveling and being able to experience new would be a step towards that.....

[Topher]

Let me also say that foreign experience is not a detriment to getting a Canadian job, but it does put you behind people with Canadian experience. I have been certified to teach here in Ontario for two years, and have several years teaching experience in the US and Australia, at all levels of schooling from elementary to University and in between. I still can't get a teaching job, because I lack "Canadian experience", yet a graduate of a Canadian university, who has no real teaching experience at all can get a job. Not only that, my teacher training program was more extensive, and provided for more in-class experience than the Ontario teacher programs. All the time I hear that I need to volunteer in a school to get experience. Why? Because all those years outside Canada don;'t count for squat?. (and yes, I'm bitter about this.)

It happens in every field. I know of PhD's who drive taxis for a living. My wife spent 4 years looking for jobs with very little success. She finally found a job after she took her PhD off her CV and they still consider her overqualified for her job.

Canada needs to begin recognizing foreign credentials. We are a very multicultural society, and have much to be proud of in that regards (compared to other countries). However, we are seriously lacking in this regard.

[divx]

Look at it this way. Do you really care if someone is going to recognize it or not? Chances that you will find such a position here in canada are slim to none, so really, you have nothing to loose. At the end of the day, YOU will be better off as you will gain more knowledge and hands on experience that will help you in the future studies/job.





Why shouldnt someone expect to have their degree recognized in Canada? Is Canada's education really "better"? Coming from a European country, I can tell you that education back there is far more tougher than in Canada. While I was doing paper-mache here in grade 8, my peers back home were battling chemistry, biology, physics, advanced math and foreign languages.
For example, you can buy a bechlor degree for 100 yuan or a master degree for 200, or phd degree for 500 on the street, they look very authetic, since you can't verify it anyway it would be passed on as authetic. The reason why Canada don't recognize foreign degree is not because they suck it is just because they can't be verified.

[Topher]

For example, you can buy a bechlor degree for 100 yuan or a master degree for 200, or phd degree for 500 on the street, they look very authetic, since you can't verify it anyway it would be passed on as authetic. The reason why Canada don't recognize foreign degree is not because they suck it is just because they can't be verified.

Even if it can be verified, it holds no weight in the real world here in Canada.

[AudiDude]

The solution would be for you to do what you want, go where you want, learn what you want and make a lot of friends. When you are looking for your dream job ask those friends to get you a position at where you want to work. You'll just need high school english so you sound like you know what your talking about from your corner office phone or to impress the others who have their head up their ass at the next meeting. Don't think for one minute I am exaggerating or kidding either.Networking rules!!

[toujours]

Even if it can be verified, it holds no weight in the real world here in Canada.That was irony, right ?

[whoisthis_95]

It's just your first year, go and have fun with the experience. There is many an engineer that hasn't worked at an engineering job at all in their first year or two ... so just keep your grades up, that is what matters the most.

[Topher]

That was irony, right ?

Unfortunately, no. It's first hand experience.

I have a teaching degree, which required MORE in-class teaching experience, and was far more comprehensive than the Canadian version, yet I've been turned down from Canadian teaching jobs because I don't have "Canadian classroom experience". Let's never mind that I hold 3 University degrees from very large American Universities, have 2 years teaching experience in Australia, and 3 years teaching experience in the US. (Not counting all of my student teaching and practicum teaching.) I've worked in the industry for an additional 5 years (4 of them here in Canada). I spent hundreds of dollars to get my teaching credentials recognized in Canada and join the Ontario Teachers College, yet none of my degrees or experience seems to mean a thing. "Lack of Canadian experience or degree" seems to be a nasty recurring theme, yet all the teachers I know talk of a shortage of teachers in my field. Go figure.

My wife's situation is even worse. She was a practicing veterinarian and university lecturer back home. She can't just study for the board exam and pass it to become recognized in Canada, she needs to hold a Canadian medical degree first. We are living the educated immigrant's dream. Ignore your education and get whatever job you can.

[Sylvestre]

OP, it's your first-year job, go for it. This is just a 4month stint, and you'll have another 2-3 summers of canadian experience so you aren't any worse off.

And sorry but gotta agree, if an employer has two equal candidates, with equal experience, and one's canadian and the other isn't, odds are the person with the local experience will get the job.
It's not about better or worse, it's about familiarity.

People tend to stick with what's familiar. Call it discrimination or whatever, but it's simply true.

[will1087]

All i can say is: it depends on the employer.

If its a well known company, working in a foreign subsidiary is just dandy.

I'm working for Morgan Stanley as an analyst this summer in their Beijing office (instead of NY) for family reasons.

Can you honestly tell me that my experience will be looked down upon?

Exactly.

[will1087]

For example, you can buy a bechlor degree for 100 yuan or a master degree for 200, or phd degree for 500 on the street, they look very authetic, since you can't verify it anyway it would be passed on as authetic. The reason why Canada don't recognize foreign degree is not because they suck it is just because they can't be verified.

First, its spelt bachelor. Second, you can buy fake degrees ANYWHERE in the world.

There are plenty of 4th-tier universities peddling degree's in North America. What's your point? I know plenty of people who obtained degrees in China and have had no problem looking for high paying jobs.

[LazyBoi]

I am in my third year of engineering, I think you should go because its damn near impossible for you to find a better summer opportunity being a first year student.

[divx]

First, its spelt bachelor. Second, you can buy fake degrees ANYWHERE in the world.

There are plenty of 4th-tier universities peddling degree's in North America. What's your point? I know plenty of people who obtained degrees in China and have had no problem looking for high paying jobs.
The point being foreign experience/degree doesn't mean much in Canada. If they got a degree in China, they can't just get their degree recognized here without retaking bunch of stuff. For example, we are short of doctors in Canada and many immigrants would love the high paying job as a doctor, while they were doctors where they came from, but they can't be licensed as a doctor here. It is possible the professions you were speaking of are less strict, and therefore less of a problem.

[march9]

Guys, thanks for all the input and replies.

I'd say go... in a heartbeat. So companies may not recognise foreign experience BUT you'll have gained valuable skills. Its your skillset that matters. I am a foreign trained professional & had a hardtime getting into my field but once I got in, I had a definate edge over my colleagues coz of my skills & ability to think outside the box due to exposure. What do you stand to lose? Summer slinging burgers?

This is the main drawback right now, I doubt I will get any "real experience", like I said I got it through connection and it's an internship,so it's not like they will seriously treat me as an employee and will let me do the job a normal employee would do. I will most likely help out with whatever they need help. Maybe even things like buying lunch for them lol. Not saying I will not gain any experience or skills but it will probably not be too valuable. That being said I doubt summer jobs/internship in Canada will be better..I have even heard of people on PEY doing similar things lol.

[march9]

I think for internship is a good opportunity, especially when you are young and you can go see the world. If money is not a problem for you, several months in China won't cost you a fortune. Even if the experience is offshore, if the company is recgonize in NA, it should be good.

I wish i had the chance to see the world when I was young like you. No restrication no worries.

Which part of China are you going to? You speak fluent Mandarin? Trust me, they don't speak any English...

It's in Shanghai and I speak fluent mandarin. I need to look for accomodation though.
The company is Alstom which is highly recognized in China, but is Alstom very familiar to Canadians? I am pretty sure average people on street have never heard of it but what about people in industry?

[march9]

my friend did this, and now he found a job here in GE, and he said he learned more in China.

and it sounded like he had fun in China. he said that with his Canadian pay, he lived like a King there lol

yeah I know but the thing is I am not gonna get Canadian pay, in fact no pay at all lol.

While being paid would be nice, I care about experience more.

[march9]

Have you looked into paid co-op/internship opportunities in Canada or elsewhere? I mean, you're first year, yeah, but still, working for free is awfully nice of you when there are paid opportunities out there that still offer great experience.

No I haven't but I will probably start soon. Like I said my mark is probably not competitive for the good jobs/internships so if i stay in Canada I will probably do something unrelated, either that or volunteering. So I guess it all comes down to which looks better on my resume...internship in China...an unrelated job in Canada, or volunteering. I will be doing something, that's for sure.

Also for the 4 month, is it better to have one position throughout the summer or do one thing for two months and then something else? I know having different experiences is good but 4 month is not exactly a long period of time...

[march9]

I am in my third year of engineering, I think you should go because its damn near impossible for you to find a better summer opportunity being a first year student.

Hi, I have a question for you, so when you apply for summer jobs/PEY/Co-op in third year, what matters most to an employer, your marks(from year 1 to year 3), your most recent marks, or your previous experience, be it mcdonald jobs,volunteering,extra-curricular?

I know it's the whole package they are looking at, but there gotta be a thing that is the most important to them right?

[march9]

which company is more well known in Canada, ABB or alstom?

might also get chance to do internship for ABB in Beijing lol.

also dell in hong kong, but I dont have visa.-_-

so ABB in Beijing, Alstom in Shanghai, which one?

[Sylvestre]

Hi, I have a question for you, so when you apply for summer jobs/PEY/Co-op in third year, what matters most to an employer, your marks(from year 1 to year 3), your most recent marks, or your previous experience, be it mcdonald jobs,volunteering,extra-curricular?

I know it's the whole package they are looking at, but there gotta be a thing that is the most important to them right?

Personality trumps everything.
Second is experience however for junior positions, most understand that the ppl may not have a boatload so it's okay, as long as the person has some demonstrated drive (via summer jobs, cirriculars etc.)
Marks do play a role but (IMHO) very rarely. maybe a screener at best initially.

[will1087]

The point being foreign experience/degree doesn't mean much in Canada. If they got a degree in China, they can't just get their degree recognized here without retaking bunch of stuff. For example, we are short of doctors in Canada and many immigrants would love the high paying job as a doctor, while they were doctors where they came from, but they can't be licensed as a doctor here. It is possible the professions you were speaking of are less strict, and therefore less of a problem.

What you're talking about is standards for certain professions. A degree from an acredited university will be recognized in the world. For a profession like medicine, the standards are different in different countries - obviously a potential practitioner would have to follow Canadian rules.

This does not mean that foreign degrees are looked down upon.

Foreign experience is also a bonus in some cases.

[siriuskao]

What you're talking about is standards for certain professions. A degree from an acredited university will be recognized in the world. For a profession like medicine, the standards are different in different countries - obviously a potential practitioner would have to follow Canadian rules.

This does not mean that foreign degrees are looked down upon.

Foreign experience is also a bonus in some cases.
I don't think it matters unless the degree is from a famous foreign school (for example, ivy league schools).

[will1087]

I don't think it matters unless the degree is from a famous foreign school (for example, ivy league schools).

As long as the school is acredited (and up to par with western standards), the university will be seriously considered.

[NorthYorker]

I'm working for Morgan Stanley as an analyst this summer in their Beijing office (instead of NY) for family reasons.

Can you honestly tell me that my experience will be looked down upon? No doubts it will. My friend just came from UK after 6 years gig with Motorola wireless division in UK and Germany. He had been turned down by local Motorola for "lack of Canadian experience". Well, he's working for Siemens now, although in role he somewhat overqualified for.

[NorthYorker]

One more thing for OP to consider. Is it necessary to put location of your co-op in resume. Wouldn't "co-op position with ABB" be enough? You'll must be honest and tell them location if they'll ask explicitly, but until they did, why do you want to overload your resume with details? :cheesygri

[will1087]

No doubts it will. My friend just came from UK after 6 years gig with Motorola wireless division in UK and Germany. He had been turned down by local Motorola for "lack of Canadian experience". Well, he's working for Siemens now, although in role he somewhat overqualified for.

Morgan Stanley dwarfs Motorola....

[NorthYorker]

Morgan Stanley dwarfs Motorola....Motorola's headcount is bigger, although MS generates more revenue (I guess Motorola still have some production capacity of it's own, so XX century).
http://www.hoovers.com/company-information/--ID__15970--/free-co-factsheet.xhtml
http://www.hoovers.com/motorola/--ID__11023--/free-co-factsheet.xhtml

I'm not sure what difference does it make, but you seemed so excited about it...

[will1087]

Motorola's headcount is bigger, although MS generates more revenue (I guess Motorola still have some production capacity of it's own, so XX century).
http://www.hoovers.com/company-information/--ID__15970--/free-co-factsheet.xhtml
http://www.hoovers.com/motorola/--ID__11023--/free-co-factsheet.xhtml

I'm not sure what difference does it make, but you seemed so excited about it...

You must not know too much about the financial industry =)

[NorthYorker]

You must not know too much about the financial industry =) Unless it staffed with creatures which don't belong to same family as Homo Sapiens (and that's untrue, although one can't tell it from one's standard experience with banks), I know enough.

[will1087]

Unless it staffed with creatures which don't belong to same family as Homo Sapiens (and that's untrue, although one can't tell it from one's standard experience with banks), I know enough.

Its ok if you dont understand it =), theres no shame.

[Ixidor]

Why shouldnt someone expect to have their degree recognized in Canada? Is Canada's education really "better"? Coming from a European country, I can tell you that education back there is far more tougher than in Canada. While I was doing paper-mache here in grade 8, my peers back home were battling chemistry, biology, physics, advanced math and foreign languages.

It's not that the canadian degree (or north american for that matter) is any better or worse, it's simply different. I'm not positive but it seems more than likely that a significant chunk of an MD in africa would be the studying of how to identify and treat most of the common diseases in Africa. This will leave them more than qualified to run around being a doctor in Africa but it might leave them lacking in certain areas that North America has deemed nessescairy in order to be a doctor.

I believe if you have a verifiable foreign degree you have a chance to do an expediated MD course or simply write a single test, I could very well be wrong tough.

[LazyBoi]

Hi, I have a question for you, so when you apply for summer jobs/PEY/Co-op in third year, what matters most to an employer, your marks(from year 1 to year 3), your most recent marks, or your previous experience, be it mcdonald jobs,volunteering,extra-curricular?

I know it's the whole package they are looking at, but there gotta be a thing that is the most important to them right?

It actually depends on the company. Some companies pick the students with top marks, other companies value previous work experience more (and no, I am not talking about McDonald's type of jobs, I am talking about engineering summer jobs and/or research for profs). As for volunteering and extracurricular, those are less important in comparison.

[will1087]

NY MS experience would be significantly better than Chinese or Canadian experience (unless you plan on working in China or Canada respectively).
Equities in Dallas and all that.

Haha, MS handles billion dollar IPO's in China...

If i went to NY, i would be working on smaller projects when in China, i'd have a chance of working on bigger projects right away.

Then again, any job with MS is amazing.

[adehbone]

finance is a diff field all together.....and how experience is valued and names....alot of IBanks will prefer you working on real deal exposure prolly in China then just working on number crunching and pitching in a NY office.....but a good NY MS group will trump the HK internship......that is if you want to end up on wall street....

either way if those are your options, your pretty set experience wise......very diff than those Phds driving cabs

[NorthYorker]

either way if those are your options, your pretty set experience wise......very diff than those Phds driving cabs

That's beauty of Canadian labour market. "those Phds driving cabs" are infinitely more experienced in their respective fields than any grad student, but he has waaaay better chances of finding a job. And he may be wise not to go to NYC. There he has good chances to spend his time serving starbuck lattes to those accented Phds instead of pretending to be a supernatural being from Canada (as he will do in China).

[will1087]

That's beauty of Canadian labour market. "those Phds driving cabs" are infinitely more experienced in their respective fields than any grad student, but he has waaaay better chances of finding a job. And he may be wise not to go to NYC. There he has good chances to spend his time serving starbuck lattes to those accented Phds instead of pretending to be a supernatural being from Canada (as he will do in China).

Bitter? or just jealous?

The finance industry is a very different beast. I suggest you do some research before sprouting non-sense.

You don't know what it takes to work at Morgan Stanley (and what recruiting took) for either offices. Period.

If you don't mind me asking, what qualifications/credentials do you have that suggests that you know about this industry - at all?

[NorthYorker]

If you don't mind me asking, what qualifications/credentials do you have that suggests that you know about this industry - at all? Contracting for MS :) I have to admit though, it was IT, not core business unit.

Will, since we started personal talk, let me give you advice. Ppl are ppl everythere, regardless of their profession, so foreign experience is universally discounted in any industry and any country. That's just nature of the animal called Homo Sapiens. So you may be right to say "I'll better work on billion-dollar IPO handled by MS in China then serve coffee in backoffice in Canada", but working on billion-dollar IPO in Canada or NYC is even better (that's assuming you would be able to convince your future employer you really did something beside serving coffee in China, which can be separate set of challenges).

[eliteblaze]

Working on the street will always trump the same position anywhere else. Even industry books will note NY bankers work a ton harder (and compensated as such). Personal interaction NY bankers confirms this.

NY Summer Analysts do real work on deal teams.

NY MS experience would be significantly better than Chinese or Canadian experience (unless you plan on working in China or Canada respectively).
Equities in Dallas and all that.

[will1087]

Working on the street will always trump the same position anywhere else. Even industry books will note NY bankers work a ton harder (and compensated as such). Personal interaction NY bankers confirms this.

NY Summer Analysts do real work on deal teams.

Well i'll let you know how MY experience goes. :lol:

[weapplyforyou]

This is great. No experience is experience and working for a large company like that is huge on your resume. As a matter of fact companies will pay more for your chinese experience as most companies are either doing business there or want to go it. They want to have people who have worked in that environment.

We help a lot of Chinese students and this is a big advantage. Even better than one in Canada.

Weapplyforyou.com
www.weapplyforyou.com

[LazyBoi]

This is great. No experience is experience and working for a large company like that is huge on your resume. As a matter of fact companies will pay more for your chinese experience as most companies are either doing business there or want to go it. They want to have people who have worked in that environment.

We help a lot of Chinese students and this is a big advantage. Even better than one in Canada.

Weapplyforyou.com
www.weapplyforyou.com

Read this:

http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=411644

[Tereno]

OP,

The key point is the resume and the interview. Even if you don't have great marks, you'd still have your shot. I'm on internship right now. And yes, from my experience, it's not the marks that count the most. It's how you present your resume. I've read some resumes from students with superb marks but all they go on about is themselves and how great they are but nothing related to the job offer. In the interview process as well, I've had my colleagues mention these sorta things.

Going for an internship to China is a great opportunity and since it's your first year, why not go and enjoy it? Of course since you aren't being paid, it's definitely something else to consider. If you were being paid, there'd be no doubts as well. Once you come back, you can go for another internship in Canada.. be it PEY or whatever. That will get you all set. Opportunities are missed when you stay at home in the summer and do nothing. :) As some have mentioned, it's more of training skills and getting exposure and new ideas than getting experience. Also, if you don't specify the location, then they won't know :) Just wait for them to ask explicitly.

[yuwing8]

OP: yes they look down on it

i have a friend who's father is a supervisor for an airline. He's part of the customer service team. The family immigrated to canada and now he can't work as a damn travel agent. you say WTF? I say damn right. 30 years of experience down the drain.

[Sylvestre]

I think people need to distinguish between foreign experience, and foreign trained.

If a person is a graduate of a canadian school, and works for a year in a company overseas, that's entirely different than an immigrant who attended a foreing school and has no canadian experience.

Stop comparing the two, and keep in mind the OP asked about a student position.