UBC(uni of British columbia) diploma in accounting. How is it?

[george benjamin]

Hello,

I would like to know how is the UBC Diploma in accounting.


Also, how about BCIT Diploma in accoutning?

Thanks.

[george benjamin]

http://www.discovervancouver.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=73157

[george benjamin]

Is it true that high school students who get into BCIT in accounting end up articling as a CA?

[george benjamin]

Is it true that high school students who get into BCIT in accounting end up articling as a CA?

Yes it is, but it takes a long time.

http://www.ica.bc.ca/printfriendly.php3?pageid=857&artid=2060&contenttable=main_article&pagestable=main_page#head9

[phco]

dap's crap and way overly priced

[Solex]

If you have a degree and you need your CASB pre-requisites in a compressed time frame there isn't a better program than DAP. Just make sure 1) you are suited for accounting (ie do you like dealing with numbers, finance, business) 2) you actually like accounting.

By doing DAP I'll get all my CASB pre-req's in only 12 months.

[forgamez]

Hello,

I would like to know how is the UBC Diploma in accounting.


Also, how about BCIT Diploma in accoutning?

Thanks.

The Big4 seems to hire from from the program, so I think that is the most important thing. A business program is only as good as its ability to draw recruiters and provide job opportunities for its students.

[Pteg]

If you have a degree and you need your CASB pre-requisites in a compressed time frame there isn't a better program than DAP. Just make sure 1) you are suited for accounting (ie do you like dealing with numbers, finance, business) 2) you actually like accounting.

By doing DAP I'll get all my CASB pre-req's in only 12 months.


Hey Solex, are you currently doing the DAP program? Have you gone through the fall CA recruit? I'm asking because I was also considering enrolling in DAP and was just wondering since the big 4 recruit during the beginning of the year, do they base their hiring on your GPA that you got in your previous degree?

[watodo]

if you plan to finish DAP in a year...starting this sept...then yes..when you go through fall recruitment this september (for next sept start)....the firms can only look at your GPA that you got in previous degrees (even if they are not commerce/accting related).......hopefully they are really good grades....if not..you better be able to justify the bad grades and that you won't carry that study habbit into your DAP courses...and that you have good work experience and very good personality (ie/ very sociable)..and can show that you really are interested in accounting (even though you haven't taken a course yet)..


other wise...they rather hire someone who has taken some accounting courses already..

[Solex]

Hey Solex, are you currently doing the DAP program? Have you gone through the fall CA recruit? I'm asking because I was also considering enrolling in DAP and was just wondering since the big 4 recruit during the beginning of the year, do they base their hiring on your GPA that you got in your previous degree?

I'm in the DAP program right now, finishing off most likely by the end of the summer. Haven't gone through recruiting yet but I will do so this September. I got some bad advice and didn't find out that firms recruit for the following year so I'll be hoping for a January position.

From what I've heard the big 4 take the following things into account (in no particular order)

1) grades from accounting courses and failing that your undergrad as it hopefully will give them an idea of your future performance

2) leadership skills

3) social skills

4) work experience (which hopefully illustrates your leadership and social skills)

I know a lot of people in DAP who got offers before completing one accounting course and at I know at least a couple of those had average undergrad marks. This surprised me as a large percentage of people in DAP are transitioning from unrelated programs and have no business experience. It's not the way I would personally want to run my recruiting but obviously it works well enough for them.

That's not to say that marks don't matter but having leadership and social skills are just as important. The big 4 are ultimately consultants and they don't want to send an employee to a client who is going to embarass them.

[Pteg]

I'm in the DAP program right now, finishing off most likely by the end of the summer. Haven't gone through recruiting yet but I will do so this September. I got some bad advice and didn't find out that firms recruit for the following year so I'll be hoping for a January position.

From what I've heard the big 4 take the following things into account (in no particular order)

1) grades from accounting courses and failing that your undergrad as it hopefully will give them an idea of your future performance

2) leadership skills

3) social skills

4) work experience (which hopefully illustrates your leadership and social skills)

I know a lot of people in DAP who got offers before completing one accounting course and at I know at least a couple of those had average undergrad marks. This surprised me as a large percentage of people in DAP are transitioning from unrelated programs and have no business experience. It's not the way I would personally want to run my recruiting but obviously it works well enough for them.

That's not to say that marks don't matter but having leadership and social skills are just as important. The big 4 are ultimately consultants and they don't want to send an employee to a client who is going to embarass them.


That's pretty surprising how they would hiring someone based on average undergrad/no accounting courses/unrelated programs because even though having good social and leadership skills are important, being able to get through casb and pass the UFE is another story. One of my co-workers' friend actually got hired with a degree in fine arts and he said it took her about 3 tries to pass the UFE.

How are you finding the program in terms of level of difficulty and quality of teaching? How many courses do you recommend taking per term?

[dryang]

how is the DAP compared to bcit's financial management program?

i heard at bcit, smaller classes, more practical skills. while at ubc, they put over 100 students in one class. i am considering both.

[candy604]

I went through the Dap program. It's great if you want to finish up your courses within a year or two. I met a lot of people and I still keep in touch with them.

Generally a lot of firms recruit from DAP, especially the big 4. This year I heard some Big 4 firms only have a few positions for bcit people. Generally it's tougher to get hired. For the firm I am starting with we only hired one bcit grad out of 20 people.

But I agree with some of the people who posted. It is not a lot about the marks but your work experience and personality skills. Key is networking, having a great cacee form, and interviewing skills.

[e007]

I went through the Dap program. It's great if you want to finish up your courses within a year or two. I met a lot of people and I still keep in touch with them.

Generally a lot of firms recruit from DAP, especially the big 4. This year I heard some Big 4 firms only have a few positions for bcit people. Generally it's tougher to get hired. For the firm I am starting with we only hired one bcit grad out of 20 people.

But I agree with some of the people who posted. It is not a lot about the marks but your work experience and personality skills. Key is networking, having a great cacee form, and interviewing skills.

Are you working in a big 4 firm?

[Solex]

That's pretty surprising how they would hiring someone based on average undergrad/no accounting courses/unrelated programs because even though having good social and leadership skills are important, being able to get through casb and pass the UFE is another story. One of my co-workers' friend actually got hired with a degree in fine arts and he said it took her about 3 tries to pass the UFE.

How are you finding the program in terms of level of difficulty and quality of teaching? How many courses do you recommend taking per term?

I personally don't find the courses very difficult but I have a little background in business so the concepts come easily to me. The math is relatively simple and as long as you can learn a bunch of rules you will do relatively well. Try to understand the concepts and avoid memorizing things as it will only hurt you in the long run. If you understand why different rules are applied and the rationale behind them, it's one less thing that you have to memorize.

I'm not working and am taking 4 courses per term which has been very manageable so far. From speaking with profs, the DAP courses are at the same difficulty level as the normal UBC ones.

Teaching has been up and down but on the whole decent. The only prof I would recommend you not take a course by is David Chan. Peter Norwood is much better at cost accounting if boring and Doug Yee is much better for Intermediate Financial I.

My recommendation for anyone thinking of DAP and transitioning from an unrelated background is to try the introduction to financial accounting course. See if accounting suits you.

[jamoe88]

I'm also confused about DAP and BCIT as well. I'm transitioning from a marketing background into a accounting background, I did very well in my accounting courses and reasonably well in my last 2 years of my business degree.
DAP seems extremely expensive, but if the big 4 recruit heavily there is definitely value. Looking at the discovervancouver forum that George Benjamin introduced, BCIT also looks like a good option, but I'm wary of how the Big 4 views the institution.

[Solex]

Well the big 4 do recruit from both BCIT and the UBC DAP program. I've heard they don't take as many new recruits from BCIT as they have in the past due to their record not being as good. If you're a good candidate, I'm sure it won't matter.

Looking at the FMGT program at BCIT, one thing that concerns me is how many courses you take at once. If you're really set on getting that big 4 job, it may be hard to keep your average high if you're doing 6 courses at once.

My only experience with BCIT is when I did their Accounting 1 (FMGT1105) course a couple years ago. It is somewhat interesting that UBC will only give you credit for the equivalent course (BUSI293) if you've also done the second half (FMGT2105). I didn't have it so I had to take Busi 293. I found that BCIT went into slightly more depth in the material (due to 2 vs 1 terms) and were obsessive about you learning how to do journal entries for every situation. BCIT I definitely had more class time which may be a consideration if you need it to learn.

Speaking with one of my profs that teaches as both BCIT and UBC, what I gather is that the DAP program is geared more towards a CA designation. BCIT concentrate on journal entries more because they have a different focus for their program.

Here's a placement survey for BCIT's FINMAN program, I wasn't able to find one for UBC.

http://www.bcit.ca/files/irp/gp/585fdiplt.pdf

[dryang]

Is the DAP program for a person without any accounting background?

Can I just register one courese in the program to see if accounting suits me?

Do I still have to apply for admission?

[watodo]

yes

yes

and

yes

[dryang]

yes

yes

and

yes
thank you

[jamoe88]

Hey Solex, thanks for answering,
I was wondering though since you are in the Dap program, do u know generally how many recruits the big 4 hire from the program? and what are the average marks they are expecting.
I was reading the discover vancouver forum that only like 1 in 10 get into a big 4 firm, which in a class of about 100 only accounts for ~10 people
thanks for your feedback

[candy604]

Hi Jamoe88.

Generally the big 4 hire from the UBC. They do hire from BCIT but there are few spots open for BCIT people. There's about 30-50 offers given for each of the big 4 firm. Usually kpmg and pwc give the most offers out. This year only 25-30 offers were given for EY and 35-40 for Deloitte. The thing is it sucks because a lot of people get multiple offers so they take up room. Generally firms are looking to hire 25-30 new starts for September.

Usually the firms look for an average of 75% or so. You do need a well rounded application to compete with others. It's all about your personality, work experience and marks.

[Solex]

Hi Jamoe88.

Generally the big 4 hire from the UBC. They do hire from BCIT but there are few spots open for BCIT people. There's about 30-50 offers given for each of the big 4 firm. Usually kpmg and pwc give the most offers out. This year only 25-30 offers were given for EY and 35-40 for Deloitte. The thing is it sucks because a lot of people get multiple offers so they take up room. Generally firms are looking to hire 25-30 new starts for September.


This is spread out between UBC and SFU commerce too isn't it? About the multiple offers, I think most firms account for this in their recruiting. A firm may give out 50 offers but they're not expecting everyone to accept. I don't know the percentages but they expect to get % percentage of their offers accepted.

[Pteg]

Hey Candy604

How long did it take you to complete the program?

Do you need a lot of extracurriculars in order to get hired by the big 4 or mid size/small firms?

[dryang]

hi, solex,

I just got accepted into the DAP program. They sent me the registration info in the email. The online registration opens on 9:00 am July 14th. It requires full payment by credit card when registering the courses. I applied for student loans and need to defer the payment as the money from student loan wont arrive until September. So I will have to register courses by handing in paper forms. Does this affect my chance of getting a spot in the courses? I assume that courses will be full very quickly after the registration become available online. I personally think it is unfair for those students who can't afford paying tuition fees immediately. Looks like the DAP program is a "money sucking" machine.

[Solex]

hi, solex,

I just got accepted into the DAP program. They sent me the registration info in the email. The online registration opens on 9:00 am July 14th. It requires full payment by credit card when registering the courses. I applied for student loans and need to defer the payment as the money from student loan wont arrive until September. So I will have to register courses by handing in paper forms. Does this affect my chance of getting a spot in the courses? I assume that courses will be full very quickly after the registration become available online. I personally think it is unfair for those students who can't afford paying tuition fees immediately. Looks like the DAP program is a "money sucking" machine.

If you're doing the introductory classes there usually won't be a problem getting your classes. The classrooms are quite large and getting a spot is usually not an issues. You may find it tough to get a particular section but I wouldn't worry too much. There are often a lot of people dropping classes at the beginning of term, so if you don't get into the class you may be able to switch sections.

One course where you may find it difficult to get the section you want is BUSI - 335, management information systems. This course has labs with limited space so you may get an inconvenient lab time.

Quick recommendation for the intro courses you're likely taking.

Busi 293, Sinclair is a good lecturer while Aziz can be pretty cranky. Aziz does provides good notes packages which I prefer. Somewhat of a tossup but I had Aziz.

Busi 294, avoid Chan like the plague. Aziz will have good notes for you.

Busi 393, avoid Deborah Meredith. Meredith is interesting to talk to but her lectures tended to lack focus and her marking scheme is very random. I felt I had to write down everything I knew about a topic and hope I touched on the points she was looking for. Go with Ellen McIntosh.

[dryang]

Solex:

Thanks for your suggestions. So is it true that those students who register online and pay immediately get to choose which section they like? I noticed that the paper registration form is not available until July 14th. Obviously, the DAP program is trying to collect the fees as early and quickly as possible.

I applied on July 1st late evening and got accepted on July 2nd. So for those who worry about admission, you dont need to. They would accept anybody unless you are really academically challenged.

I applied to the bcit program as well. The reason why I want to take the DAP is that it only takes one year while the bcit one takes two years. BCIT offers more courses and practical. The DAP offers courses in the evening, making me feel like going to night schools.

And for textbooks, do you buy new? In bcit program, if you buy used textbooks, you still have to pay extra to do the online homework. So it is not worthwhile to buy used books for BCIT FMGT program. How is the situation in DAP? I had a quick search on ebay and the textbooks are dirt cheap on there. I want to start reading the textbooks from now on to get more prepared.

[dryang]

There are often a lot of people dropping classes at the beginning of term

Are these ppl actually withdrawing from the program?

[Pteg]

Quick recommendation for the intro courses you're likely taking.

Busi 293, Sinclair is a good lecturer while Aziz can be pretty cranky. Aziz does provides good notes packages which I prefer. Somewhat of a tossup but I had Aziz.

Busi 294, avoid Chan like the plague. Aziz will have good notes for you.



Is a lot of the material in Intermediate Financial Accounting I (Busi 353) and Cost Accounting (Busi 354) based on Busi 293 and 294? Reason why I'm asking is because I could get busi 293 and 294 exempt but I took those 2 courses a few years ago so I don't remember that much of it. I know they are prereqs but are they really necessary to do good in the intermediate classes?

[Solex]

Is a lot of the material in Intermediate Financial Accounting I (Busi 353) and Cost Accounting (Busi 354) based on Busi 293 and 294? Reason why I'm asking is because I could get busi 293 and 294 exempt but I took those 2 courses a few years ago so I don't remember that much of it. I know they are prereqs but are they really necessary to do good in the intermediate classes?

In Busi 293, you learn mostly about how to record entries. Busi 353 is the continuation of the course and while you do learn about more entries, there is a large portion which is accounting theory.

Busi 294 is your intro to cost accounting class. Busi 354 is mostly an extension of the second half of Busi 294. Occasionally in Busi 354 we would revisit questions from Busi 294 but modify whatever technique we used before.

How many years ago did you do these accounting courses? Do you really remember them? Both courses require you to know the material from the pre-reqs. Busi 293 is a foundation course and you could be screwing yourself by skipping it. If you're mathamatically inclined, you might be able to get away with skipping Busi 294 but it might be a risk.

The second half of the summer term starts on Monday. You could sit in on classes to see if you remember the material. Personally, my recommendation would be to repeat the class for review. I'd rather have high marks and be bored in class than possibly struggle with the intermediate courses and have to explain poor grades to a firm.

If you're planning on doing accounting as a profession, you want to be solid on the material as it's your career. This isn't some calculus pre-req you can half ass and then forget about. Learn and understand the material. Know what to do and why we do it. If you just memorize things, you're setting yourself up for failure later on.

[Solex]

Solex:

Thanks for your suggestions. So is it true that those students who register online and pay immediately get to choose which section they like? I noticed that the paper registration form is not available until July 14th. Obviously, the DAP program is trying to collect the fees as early and quickly as possible.

And for textbooks, do you buy new? In bcit program, if you buy used textbooks, you still have to pay extra to do the online homework. So it is not worthwhile to buy used books for BCIT FMGT program. How is the situation in DAP? I had a quick search on ebay and the textbooks are dirt cheap on there. I want to start reading the textbooks from now on to get more prepared.

Last year when I registered for courses in September, I thought the fee deadline wasn't until the first week or two of the term. I may be wrong because I paid with a CC and didn't worry about it or things might have changed. When you register for your class you select your section. If you're put on the wait list, you don't have to pay until you get in.

For my courses there was no compulsory online component that you needed to buy at the bookstore. Make sure that you're getting the right edition and that the textbook hasn't changed.

Are these ppl actually withdrawing from the program?

Don't know to be honest. My guess would be people are having difficulty managing their course load as they've never done accounting before or are working at the same time. I remember someone who asked a prof if his course was tough. He was working full time and thought he could manage 4 courses at the same time. Needless to say I think he dropped a couple courses.

[dryang]

Hi, Solex, Thanks for your answers.

Are you preparing for the big 4 interviews in this coming Sept? I dont have any accounting background, should I prepare for the recruiting interviews this Sept? The DAP program does not send any info to its students. Do you expect students to know it by themselves? If I did not read posts on this forum, I would not have known that big 4 and other firms recruit in Sept for the following year.

If I cannot get any offers this Sept, do I have chances next Sept when I finish the program?

[candy604]

Hi,

I took about a year and a half to complete the program. Yes I did have quite a lot of extra circular and work experience. I found out if you want to get an interview with the midsize and smaller firms you really have to get to know their company well or else they generally do not give you an interview. Networking is really key.

You can complete the dap program within 1 year or up to 2 years. If you are recruiting for September I would definately ask the DAP office to add you onto their mailing list for upcoming events. There are a few recruiting events that take place in the summer. You should attend all sessions and make an effort to network with the firm reps and perhaps set up coffees with them. I have a few friends already doing that this summer. There's also the dap golf tournament you may want to sign up for. I believe it is takes place before September and there is also a beach day with the firm reps coming up this summer. Also get yourself some business cards- VERY IMPORTANT.

If you can finish up your courses by next September or December and go through recruiting it should be fine. It's harder to get a job if you have been out of school for a long time. Dryang generally if you do not have any accounting courses, the firms will look at your undergraduate marks ( generally big 4 hire on 80 or so averages if you have no accounting courses). You could prepare by researching the accounting profession, talking to people and really understand what you want. Interviewers will know right away if you are or are not passionate about doing a CA/CGA.

It's getting really competitive for jobs since there are more people enrolled now in DAP and the firms are not hiring as much as before.


If you have any more questions, feel free to pm me. I'll try to help you out!

[candy604]

This is spread out between UBC and SFU commerce too isn't it? About the multiple offers, I think most firms account for this in their recruiting. A firm may give out 50 offers but they're not expecting everyone to accept. I don't know the percentages but they expect to get % percentage of their offers accepted.

Sorry to clear that up, yes the offers include ubc, sfu, bcit , trinity college, uvic ( whoever wants to work in Vancouver) etc..

Yes, you are right about the % of their offers accepted.

Regarding textbooks, buy them used at the ubc bookstore.

[dryang]

Hi,

I took about a year and a half to complete the program. Yes I did have quite a lot of extra circular and work experience. I found out if you want to get an interview with the midsize and smaller firms you really have to get to know their company well or else they generally do not give you an interview. Networking is really key.

You can complete the dap program within 1 year or up to 2 years. If you are recruiting for September I would definately ask the DAP office to add you onto their mailing list for upcoming events. There are a few recruiting events that take place in the summer. You should attend all sessions and make an effort to network with the firm reps and perhaps set up coffees with them. I have a few friends already doing that this summer. There's also the dap golf tournament you may want to sign up for. I believe it is takes place before September and there is also a beach day with the firm reps coming up this summer. Also get yourself some business cards- VERY IMPORTANT.

If you can finish up your courses by next September or December and go through recruiting it should be fine. It's harder to get a job if you have been out of school for a long time. Dryang generally if you do not have any accounting courses, the firms will look at your undergraduate marks ( generally big 4 hire on 80 or so averages if you have no accounting courses). You could prepare by researching the accounting profession, talking to people and really understand what you want. Interviewers will know right away if you are or are not passionate about doing a CA/CGA.

It's getting really competitive for jobs since there are more people enrolled now in DAP and the firms are not hiring as much as before.


If you have any more questions, feel free to pm me. I'll try to help you out!

candy604, thanks a lot for your sharing.

[Sundae]

Thanks for the valuable info!!

i'v seen big 4 appearing several time, so big 4 includes kpmg, PWC, and what other 2 firms?

:confused:

[faken]

Ernst & Young and Deloitte

[Mike Skinner]

I was wondering what kind of academic/professional background the typical current DAP student possess?

Specifically, what are your thoughts on someone probably atypical (ie. ME!) getting hired by a Big 4 or midsized firm CA articling following completion of the DAP.

I have a BA degree with great grades (wrote a thesis and got published, blah blah blah...) but it's been many moons since I got that degree. (read: almost 10 years!!). I took a couple of Accounting courses as electives then, loved it, and did great in them, and being an acccountant has always been on the back of my mind, but I have never done anything about it until now.

So I'm obviously a 'mature' applicant, with many years of non-accounting work experience. I think I have excellent social and leadership skills :lol: (in my current job, I have to!), I speak a second language. And I know I will kick butt in the DAP program and get solid grades. I'm also currently taking an introductory accounting course part-time at a local college and loving it.

My only concern is that recruiters will deem me as 'over the hill' and 'too late' to start a new career? In your experience with recruiters so far, and from people you know, and people you have talked to, and the demographics of your DAP class, do you think my concerns are valid? I just don't want to quit my current job, start the DAP program and not have any job prospects at the end of it all, because I am not 'fresh meat' anymore.

What are your thoughts?



I'm in the DAP program right now, finishing off most likely by the end of the summer. Haven't gone through recruiting yet but I will do so this September. I got some bad advice and didn't find out that firms recruit for the following year so I'll be hoping for a January position.

From what I've heard the big 4 take the following things into account (in no particular order)

1) grades from accounting courses and failing that your undergrad as it hopefully will give them an idea of your future performance

2) leadership skills

3) social skills

4) work experience (which hopefully illustrates your leadership and social skills)

I know a lot of people in DAP who got offers before completing one accounting course and at I know at least a couple of those had average undergrad marks. This surprised me as a large percentage of people in DAP are transitioning from unrelated programs and have no business experience. It's not the way I would personally want to run my recruiting but obviously it works well enough for them.

That's not to say that marks don't matter but having leadership and social skills are just as important. The big 4 are ultimately consultants and they don't want to send an employee to a client who is going to embarass them.



I'm in the DAP program right now, finishing off most likely by the end of the summer. Haven't gone through recruiting yet but I will do so this September. I got some bad advice and didn't find out that firms recruit for the following year so I'll be hoping for a January position.

From what I've heard the big 4 take the following things into account (in no particular order)

1) grades from accounting courses and failing that your undergrad as it hopefully will give them an idea of your future performance

2) leadership skills

3) social skills

4) work experience (which hopefully illustrates your leadership and social skills)

I know a lot of people in DAP who got offers before completing one accounting course and at I know at least a couple of those had average undergrad marks. This surprised me as a large percentage of people in DAP are transitioning from unrelated programs and have no business experience. It's not the way I would personally want to run my recruiting but obviously it works well enough for them.

That's not to say that marks don't matter but having leadership and social skills are just as important. The big 4 are ultimately consultants and they don't want to send an employee to a client who is going to embarass them.

[Solex]

I was wondering what kind of academic/professional background the typical current DAP student possess?

Specifically, what are your thoughts on someone probably atypical (ie. ME!) getting hired by a Big 4 or midsized firm CA articling following completion of the DAP.

I have a BA degree with great grades (wrote a thesis and got published, blah blah blah...) but it's been many moons since I got that degree. (read: almost 10 years!!). I took a couple of Accounting courses as electives then, loved it, and did great in them, and being an acccountant has always been on the back of my mind, but I have never done anything about it until now.

So I'm obviously a 'mature' applicant, with many years of non-accounting work experience. I think I have excellent social and leadership skills :lol: (in my current job, I have to!), I speak a second language. And I know I will kick butt in the DAP program and get solid grades. I'm also currently taking an introductory accounting course part-time at a local college and loving it.

My only concern is that recruiters will deem me as 'over the hill' and 'too late' to start a new career? In your experience with recruiters so far, and from people you know, and people you have talked to, and the demographics of your DAP class, do you think my concerns are valid? I just don't want to quit my current job, start the DAP program and not have any job prospects at the end of it all, because I am not 'fresh meat' anymore.

What are your thoughts?

The average DAP student is in their mid to late 20's and has a science or arts undergraduate background. There are people that are older though and I don't think you would look out of place.

I'm probably not as old as you but I'm older that most students in DAP as well. I don't feel as though recruiters are treating me any different than the other students. Recruiters expect DAP students to come from all different backgrounds and have varied experiences. If anything, employers appreciate the additional experience that DAP students have. I think you would be an attractive candidate to employers.

I can only foresee age being an issue if they're worried about someone fitting in.

[Mike Skinner]

The average DAP student is in their mid to late 20's and has a science or arts undergraduate background. There are people that are older though and I don't think you would look out of place.

I'm probably not as old as you but I'm older that most students in DAP as well. I don't feel as though recruiters are treating me any different than the other students. Recruiters expect DAP students to come from all different backgrounds and have varied experiences. If anything, employers appreciate the additional experience that DAP students have. I think you would be an attractive candidate to employers.

I can only foresee age being an issue if they're worried about someone fitting in.

Thanks for the response, Solex. I am in my early 30s, but due to great genetics (or so I think), most people think I am early to mid 20s. :cheesygri

Anyways, just one more question, when is a better time to start the program? I see starts in May and in September? Which start is 'better' for recruiting purposes?

[Solex]

Thanks for the response, Solex. I am in my early 30s, but due to great genetics (or so I think), most people think I am early to mid 20s. :cheesygri

Anyways, just one more question, when is a better time to start the program? I see starts in May and in September? Which start is 'better' for recruiting purposes?

Recruiting for the big firms goes on in September and they hire for the next September. Assuming you're gonna going to do well in your courses and help your chances for employment, I would start the program in May. I've heard from some firms that they are reluctant to hire applicants that don't have any accounting courses.

I would assume this is because despite an applicant's prior academic history, they are unsure of whether it will translate to accounting. For some degrees (say economics) it may be straight forward to project a similar level of performance in accounting but for others (music theory) it may not be as straight forward.

[tigerwoods17]

Hey,

For those who have taken this program, I was wondering how much the program costs?

Is there anyway I can only take the select courses to write the cma entrance exam assuming I satisfy the diploma requirements?

Or do I have to take all the courses offered, in order to graduate?

[jimb]

good question, tigerwoods17. Im intersted in finding out too.

[Solex]

Requirements for the diploma. (http://www.sauder.ubc.ca/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Program_Overview8&Template=/CM/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=2228)

Seriously.... there's a website so if you're interested in the program why don't you have a look. Each course is $690 with no student fees.

[ThomasM]

Sorry for reviving this older thread, but I've just applied to the UBC DAP recently and plan on relocating to Vancouver to live with my girlfriend that lives there. Just a few questions:

1) I know dryang mentioned that you would have to be academically challenged in order to be rejected. I'm a graduate of East Carolina University in the US, BSBA in Finance 3.3 GPA in final 2 years, 3.6 in final year. I have work experience with a large bank in the US, and went through there extensive training program. Would looking at other programs like BCIT be a waste of time based on my qualifications? I'm just unsure on how quickly I would be notified, I applied for the September start, and the deadline is July 1. I know the look at applications on a rolling basis.

2) I'm interested in either the CA or CMA designations. I would prefer to do both over time, but I would like to know which one you think would be the better start considering the program I would complete. I would like to set myself up to achieve a CFA; my uncle(level 2) and aunt(level 1) have really encouraged the CFA to be a longer-term goal of mine.

Any help/opinions/advice would be greatly appreciated.

[drey2k]

I would avoid accounting at all costs (I work in accounting).

There is an insane influx of accountants right now. Every idiot and their brother is doing a CMA/CGA or going to DAP or BCIT and trying to get a CA job.

Seriously, salaries are going to be dropping like rocks soon. Find a more interesting and fulfilling career. Accounting is boring as ****.

Of course, if you are 100% sure you want to be an accountant go for it.

[rfd_incognito]

I would avoid accounting at all costs (I work in accounting).

There is an insane influx of accountants right now. Every idiot and their brother is doing a CMA/CGA or going to DAP or BCIT and trying to get a CA job.

Seriously, salaries are going to be dropping like rocks soon. Find a more interesting and fulfilling career. Accounting is boring as ****.

Of course, if you are 100% sure you want to be an accountant go for it.

There has been a huge campaign to attract and hire students into accounting. This is analogous to the dot com boom, where students all flocked into IT. By the time the students graduated the bubble had burst and they were left working for sub-par wages.

[ThomasM]

I'm looking much more long-term. Trust me, I've experienced the boom-bust reality with Finance in the states. I'd much rather be a double-edged(finance and accounting) sword than a one-trick pony(finance). I want to position myself closer to financial analysis, and take advantage of my previous commercial banking experience. No one starts at the top, but that shouldn't encourage someone from taking advantage of there natural abilities. As soon as the weaker accounting candidates shake out of the work force to venture off back to school to chase the next boom industry, wages will stabilize.

Accountants will always be needed, as long as commerce and taxes exist. :cheesygri

[drey2k]

I'm looking much more long-term. Trust me, I've experienced the boom-bust reality with Finance in the states. I'd much rather be a double-edged(finance and accounting) sword than a one-trick pony(finance). I want to position myself closer to financial analysis, and take advantage of my previous commercial banking experience. No one starts at the top, but that shouldn't encourage someone from taking advantage of there natural abilities. As soon as the weaker accounting candidates shake out of the work force to venture off back to school to chase the next boom industry, wages will stabilize.

Accountants will always be needed, as long as commerce and taxes exist. :cheesygri

Yes there will always be jobs, but it won't stop salaries from plumetting. Accounting can easily be outsourced, and there is an insane influx of accountants right now.

If you truly enjoy the job this is okay, but the fact is that accounting is not a fulfilling career for 99 percent of people because it is extremely repetitive and dull.

I'm probably gonna stick it out for another 3 months and get the hell out. I don't want to become as miserable as my accounting manager who's been doing this for 20 years.

[coldeer]

do what you like, my older brother finished his MEng and started his CA for one of the Big4. He does consulting and absolutely loves it.

[ThomasM]

Yes there will always be jobs, but it won't stop salaries from plumetting. Accounting can easily be outsourced, and there is an insane influx of accountants right now.

True, but that's almost everything these days. Engineers, IT, manufacturing, and call center employees have all experienced this. I don't think that should discourage anyone in these professions enough to simply walk away. IBM can hire an engineer in India for roughly $16,000 USD(starting at roughly 10K) a year, while they paid 60K+ USD to US and Canadian educated engineers. There is value for someone that is educated and trained domestically, even if that doesn't translate to salary at the current time.

If you truly enjoy the job this is okay, but the fact is that accounting is not a fulfilling career for 99 percent of people because it is extremely repetitive and dull.

Yeah, I understand this part. I think it really makes a difference on where you work and what sector you're located in. I have a friend that's a controller for a large commercial construction company and he couldn't be happier. I have a friend that is an accountant for Caterpillar; she lovers her job but she's very concerned for her job security. I think public practice would be boring, and more for someone that has years of experience that wants stability and boring after years of complex accounting jobs and tasks.

I'm probably gonna stick it out for another 3 months and get the hell out. I don't want to become as miserable as my accounting manager who's been doing this for 20 years.

That's cool that you are making a move. So many people just sit in jobs they hate and it's a shame to see. How long have you been in the industry? You probably feel like I did after my stint in finance. I'd rather you lock me in a room with a spreadsheet than talk to another client about a commercial loan. It could be worse....you could be on commission in a horrible economic condition.

[Pteg]

That's cool that you are making a move. So many people just sit in jobs they hate and it's a shame to see. How long have you been in the industry? You probably feel like I did after my stint in finance. I'd rather you lock me in a room with a spreadsheet than talk to another client about a commercial loan. It could be worse....you could be on commission in a horrible economic condition.

Hey, I was just wondering what was it that you didn't like about commercial banking?

[drey2k]

That's cool that you are making a move. So many people just sit in jobs they hate and it's a shame to see. How long have you been in the industry? You probably feel like I did after my stint in finance. I'd rather you lock me in a room with a spreadsheet than talk to another client about a commercial loan. It could be worse....you could be on commission in a horrible economic condition.

Yea I really want to find something that I actually don't mind doing.

Accounting is just too repetitive for me. I highly doubt this will go away, my stepfather was a Controller for a huge company and even his job was repetitive and boring. Even if the pay is amazing, it won't matter if you're stuck at a job 8+ hours a day where you are not happy.

Right now I'm trying to figure out what I really want to get into. Maybe do an MBA, or a JD/LLB... comp sci, or get into finance (which is what I have a degree in to begin with, just no jobs in vancouver at all).

You don't have to deal with people in all finance jobs... I definitely don't want a job like that.

Anyways best of luck.

[ThomasM]

Hey, I was just wondering what was it that you didn't like about commercial banking?

just my nature. I'm a people person, and I thought it was going to be more of a sales/service mix. It really depends where you work, but my bank did not have a hunter-skinner approach. You sought the business, closed terms, underwrite(with co-approval), and service was slowly given to other positions so we could focus on sales. The money is good, but you do many various positions and deal with clients that want everything yesterday and free. I really like reviewing business plans....it's amazing how some people manage to make money.

[ThomasM]

Yea I really want to find something that I actually don't mind doing.

Accounting is just too repetitive for me. I highly doubt this will go away, my stepfather was a Controller for a huge company and even his job was repetitive and boring. Even if the pay is amazing, it won't matter if you're stuck at a job 8+ hours a day where you are not happy.

Right now I'm trying to figure out what I really want to get into. Maybe do an MBA, or a JD/LLB... comp sci, or get into finance (which is what I have a degree in to begin with, just no jobs in vancouver at all).

You don't have to deal with people in all finance jobs... I definitely don't want a job like that.

Anyways best of luck.

I looked at getting a MBA as well, but I quickly lost interest. I think it's the lack of a focus that makes me shy away from it. I would prefer a specialization, but that just me. I just know the admissions to many MBA programs are very strong. I looked at UBC about my MBA, but I think the DAP will be a better fit for me.

I'd like to get into business valuations and financial analysis eventually. Both involve accounting and finance, so hopefully I'm making the right move. Thanks man, good luck to you as well.

[drey2k]

I looked at getting a MBA as well, but I quickly lost interest. I think it's the lack of a focus that makes me shy away from it. I would prefer a specialization, but that just me. I just know the admissions to many MBA programs are very strong. I looked at UBC about my MBA, but I think the DAP will be a better fit for me.

I'd like to get into business valuations and financial analysis eventually. Both involve accounting and finance, so hopefully I'm making the right move. Thanks man, good luck to you as well.

If you already have a degree, why not consider a CFA or FRM? These jobs can lead to fund management and various other amazing jobs. Problem is you gotta get the hell outta Canada altogether to find these jobs...unless you're lucky and land something in GTA.

You can also do a Master's degree in Finance.

Do you plan on getting your CBV in the future? (since you mention doing business valuations)

[ThomasM]

If you already have a degree, why not consider a CFA or FRM? These jobs can lead to fund management and various other amazing jobs. Problem is you gotta get the hell outta Canada altogether to find these jobs...unless you're lucky and land something in GTA.

You can also do a Master's degree in Finance.

Do you plan on getting your CBV in the future? (since you mention doing business valuations)

I would like to obtain a CFA(my uncle has his CFA II and CAIA, aunt has CFA I) and CBV eventually, but accounting would help tremendously in both respects while offering steady employment and a possible consulting/analysis job you need for the experience portion. Merger and Aq work would be a great background for a CBV candiate. I pretty much expect myself to be in some type of school of training the rest of my life. I have 2 problems though....my girlfriend is in Vancouver...and I'm not a Canadian citizen. I need to graduate from a university to get my post-graduate visa in order to work towards my citizenship. I'm not doing a skilled worker visa, I've heard it can take forever.

[drey2k]

I would like to obtain a CFA(my uncle has his CFA II and CAIA, aunt has CFA I) and CBV eventually, but accounting would help tremendously in both respects while offering steady employment and a possible consulting/analysis job you need for the experience portion. Merger and Aq work would be a great background for a CBV candiate. I pretty much expect myself to be in some type of school of training the rest of my life. I have 2 problems though....my girlfriend is in Vancouver...and I'm not a Canadian citizen. I need to graduate from a university to get my post-graduate visa in order to work towards my citizenship. I'm not doing a skilled worker visa, I've heard it can take forever.

Well I live in Vancouver, and I can tell you that the job you are looking for basically doesn't exist here...

You really need to consider moving somewhere where there is a big financial district. I am for sure going to move out of Vancouver in the near future because it's basically just filled with low-level accounting jobs, sales jobs, and low-level admin jobs.

The Toronto area is your best bet in Canada. Otherwise go to US or the emerging Asian markets.

[drey2k]

Oh and btw I forgot to answer your question.

I went to business school at UBC (B.Com Finance) and I can tell you that DAP is pretty reputable, especially here in Vancouver.

The only problem is, again, there are TONS of people doing it. I know a lot of commerce grads who basically gave up on pursuing their focus careers and just switching to accounting because there are so few other jobs in Vancouver...

[ThomasM]

Well I live in Vancouver, and I can tell you that the job you are looking for basically doesn't exist here...

You really need to consider moving somewhere where there is a big financial district. I am for sure going to move out of Vancouver in the near future because it's basically just filled with low-level accounting jobs, sales jobs, and low-level admin jobs.

The Toronto area is your best bet in Canada. Otherwise go to US or the emerging Asian markets.

True, but I love the area. I would deal with making less money if it meant I could be in the Van/Victoria area. We just want to get settled first, get our bearings, then figure out where to go from there. I would like to be in Canada long-term....but also a CA, CGA, or CMA would translate back to a CPA if I wanted to come back to the US. I'm planning on getting there mid-July hopefully, since class starts in September. She has her place on the market in North Van and I think we'll move closer to downtown or West Van. Who knows....maybe the Olympics will help Vancouver gain exposure and spur a entry of multinationals to the GVA looking to enter Canada.

[drey2k]

True, but I love the area. I would deal with making less money if it meant I could be in the Van/Victoria area. We just want to get settled first, get our bearings, then figure out where to go from there. I would like to be in Canada long-term....but also a CA, CGA, or CMA would translate back to a CPA if I wanted to come back to the US. I'm planning on getting there mid-July hopefully, since class starts in September. She has her place on the market in North Van and I think we'll move closer to downtown or West Van. Who knows....maybe the Olympics will help Vancouver gain exposure and spur a entry of multinationals to the GVA looking to enter Canada.

Well as long as you are happy it's all that matters man.

I'm not sure if CGA/CMA translate to a CPA though, you really need to look into this. I'm sure a CA does, but a CGA/CMA may not.

[ThomasM]

Oh and btw I forgot to answer your question.

I went to business school at UBC (B.Com Finance) and I can tell you that DAP is pretty reputable, especially here in Vancouver.

The only problem is, again, there are TONS of people doing it. I know a lot of commerce grads who basically gave up on pursuing their focus careers and just switching to accounting because there are so few other jobs in Vancouver...

My application is currently being processed for a September start. Yeah, I can see some people doing that. No offense, but your exact situation is why I think I'm going to stick with it. I feel that a large percentage of people graduate and get into basic accounting jobs. They become bored and didn't realize what they wanted to do from a lack of work experience in the field(same reason I did finance initially). With people transitioning out of the industry as often or even half as often as some graduate, the odds are not bad. I just want to learn anything and everything that will open doors to what I eventually want to do for the rest of my life.

[drey2k]

My application is currently being processed for a September start. Yeah, I can see some people doing that. No offense, but your exact situation is why I think I'm going to stick with it. I feel that a large percentage of people graduate and get into basic accounting jobs. They become bored and didn't realize what they wanted to do lack of work experience in the field(same reason I did finance initially). With people transitioning out of the industry as often or even half as often as some graduate, the odds are not bad. I just want to learn anything and everything that will open doors to what I eventually want to do for the rest of my life.

That's a smart way of thinking man, best of luck.

[ThomasM]

Well as long as you are happy it's all that matters man.

I'm not sure if CGA/CMA translate to a CPA though, you really need to look into this. I'm sure a CA does, but a CGA/CMA may not.

Yeah, I'm qualified to do the CMA accelerated track, but I want all the prerequisites in order to do a CA as well. I would like to do a CA or CMA, just depending on the opportunity I'm given. I really don't think I'll come back to the US, and if so, I'll have years of accounting/finance experience at that point. Consulting would be the next best thing at that point.

[ChipSkate]

DAP is a great program - friend was marketing manager there before : )

I'm doing the MBA/CMA joint program soon - on top of full time - I'll post more as I find out more. I'm trying to find more equivalency comparisons as well for CMA as it seems to vary by country (there's CMA in US but seems to be more difficult...) and not the same like CPA across board.

My advice as well will be to check out the annual CMA events. I believe there should be one in May, I just went to one earlier in March.

[dandy2008]

Well as long as you are happy it's all that matters man.

I'm not sure if CGA/CMA translate to a CPA though, you really need to look into this. I'm sure a CA does, but a CGA/CMA may not.

You won't get any credit for the CMA accelerated program, the SLP or courses through the CGA.

[dandy2008]

DAP is a great program - friend was marketing manager there before : )

I'm doing the MBA/CMA joint program soon - on top of full time - I'll post more as I find out more. I'm trying to find more equivalency comparisons as well for CMA as it seems to vary by country (there's CMA in US but seems to be more difficult...) and not the same like CPA across board.

My advice as well will be to check out the annual CMA events. I believe there should be one in May, I just went to one earlier in March.

The U.S. CMA is virtually unknown in the States, there are more surgeons in the U.S. than CMAs. The U.K CIMA is quite popular, but there is a limited recognition between the CIMA and CMA Canada.

[ThomasM]

Anyone recently graduated or currently going through the program? I'm an international student that recently (UBC received as of 4/2/09) applied for the September start. I'm wondering how long it should take to hear something back, even though there is a July 1 deadline. I'm trying to knock out my student visa and get there as early as possible to adjust to the area, so I'm wondering how much lag time to expect. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[tiger7]

Is May a bad start for this program? I notice everyone applied for September.

[Pteg]

I heard that if you complete that Canadian Securities Course, you won't have to take BUSI 470 (financial management). Can anyone confirm this or provide a link or something to where it says this?

[dryang]

ubc dap is a waste of time and money. they put as many students as they can into the class to make money. there could be as many as over 100 students in one class. in one instance, students who were late could not find seats in the classroom and had to stand to listen to the lecture.

courses are hard and very theoretical. Instructors are worse. just look students' reviews of this instructor. he will make you have nighmares when you sleep.

http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=54931&page=1

just my 2 cents, hope this helps.

[Islander101]

For the question regarding whether the individual will be admitted to DAP:
DAP lets absolutely everyone in, as long as they meet the very minimal requirements.

Although DAP is held on the ubc rooms in the evenings, it does not have the same sort of admittance policies as "real" ubc programs. It really has been a bit of a money grabbing program for the school; They use the empty classrooms at night, hire instructors from a multitude of schools, cram as many students into a room as they can & make a heck of a lot of $$. It has a very different mandate than university programs.

That said - it gets the job done, providing non-accounting students with the courses they need to pursue an accounting designation. But: good or bad, I don't think anyone who has met the min. requirements (I believe it is 65% and a degree) has been rejected. Why would they bother to reject you when they can put you in a room with everyone else and collect more $?
In the end, those who are appropriate for the program will have success & those who are not appropriate for the program will drop out. The program in no way pre-screens or assesses whether you will be a good fit for the program.

End vent.

[argyle]

I've been accepted to the September 09 start at DAP but because I don't have any accounting background I have to take the Quantative Methods Prep course. Does anybody have any information about this course? Is there a test or anything at the end that you need to pass before going on?

[slimjim]

My sister is in the DAP program and doing very well.

This program separates the students and the accountants.

True, they pack as many people as possible into the classrooms and yes, the amount of CA spots compared to the # of DAP students is a joke...

but if you work your butt off and attain a 80+% average. The DAP program is a great way to enter the BIG 4. (assuming you also do things outside of school)

The DAP program has a great reputation among the big 4 in Vancouver.

(If i remember correctly, the big 4 hire more DAP students than bachelors of accounting students)

[NewBean]

Just curious . . . Why would that the Big 4 hire more DAP graduates than accounting graduates?

My sister is in the DAP program and doing very well.

This program separates the students and the accountants.

True, they pack as many people as possible into the classrooms and yes, the amount of CA spots compared to the # of DAP students is a joke...

but if you work your butt off and attain a 80+% average. The DAP program is a great way to enter the BIG 4. (assuming you also do things outside of school)

The DAP program has a great reputation among the big 4 in Vancouver.

(If i remember correctly, the big 4 hire more DAP students than bachelors of accounting students)

[paheli]

Just curious . . . Why would that the Big 4 hire more DAP graduates than accounting graduates?

This is only in the past 1-2 years. The reasons are:

(1) The firms feel that DAP students with good grades are just as capable as BCom accounting students when it comes to technical knowledge

(2) The firms like DAP students because they like how the DAP students are older, and have more life experience. Many DAP students come from non traditional backgrounds, some have perhaps a little full time work experience, etc.

I've been told this by staff in the UBC Commerce department who keep track of hiring numbers, etc.

My thoughts:

I'm in UBC BCom, and I've been to both the BCom and the DAP recruiting sessions. DAP students are way more aggressive at the recruiting sessions than the BCom students - they seem like such keeners. But I don't know how many people in the DAP program were present at that recruiting session...so I'm only judging based on that.

To me (remember, these are only my observations/thoughts), seems like a large number of those who enroll in DAP are those who graduated with a "useless" degree not knowing what they will do after graduation. They decide to go into accounting because they can't think of anything else to do as a career. They probably don't even have a genuine interest in accounting. If I were a hiring manager at a CA firm, I wouldn't hire somebody like this!

[apollom]

My sister is in the DAP program and doing very well.

This program separates the students and the accountants.

True, they pack as many people as possible into the classrooms and yes, the amount of CA spots compared to the # of DAP students is a joke...

but if you work your butt off and attain a 80+% average. The DAP program is a great way to enter the BIG 4. (assuming you also do things outside of school)

The DAP program has a great reputation among the big 4 in Vancouver.

(If i remember correctly, the big 4 hire more DAP students than bachelors of accounting students)

Slimjim sums it up well.

DAP will let anyone with a degree in. Which means there's a ton of students (yes, more than available jobs). But because of the lack of pre-screening, a lot of students don't make it. Some take a semester or two and decide they don't like and drop out. Others float by with a 65% average and never find a decent job. It's a self selection process.

That being said, if you want to go into accounting, DAP is a great route. Those that actually want to be CAs will make it and be successful. It is a good program, you will meet great people and most of the profs are very good at teaching. Put in the time and effort, goto the networking events and come out with an 80%+ average and you will be hired at a good firm. Ultimately, all my friends who graduated found a CA articling position somewhere.

The DAP program does have a good reputation amongst the Big 4. We seem to hire a ton of graduates (myself being one of them). I have no hard numbers to back it up, but through my own observation, UBC DAP seems to be by far the largest place we recruit from (with UBC BComm in second place). Again, it comes to to a) wanting to be a CA, b) getting the grades and c) being social (attend all the networking events!).

Best of luck in the upcoming recruiting season! It will be tough this year.

[jamoe88]

I don't know if this is the right thread to post in, but I think it is better then creating another accounting thread.....

I was wondering if anybody here in DAP has tried out for the Finance Management Development Program and Chartered Accountant Training Program from Telus?

I know that Telus is a big time employer in Vancouver and I was wondering if any of you guys that are in or trying to get into this program have any opinions on whether this is a good alternative to the Big 4?

thanks for your help in advance

[aac85]

I don't know if this is the right thread to post in, but I think it is better then creating another accounting thread.....

I was wondering if anybody here in DAP has tried out for the Finance Management Development Program and Chartered Accountant Training Program from Telus?

I know that Telus is a big time employer in Vancouver and I was wondering if any of you guys that are in or trying to get into this program have any opinions on whether this is a good alternative to the Big 4?

thanks for your help in advance

go with big4. i dont want to give out too much info on the net...but i had experience with the FMDP before....its not too bad.......the point of the program is to develop you throughout the finance departments so you can gradually transition into middle management roles...but the skills developed is geared internally....so if you ever want to transition out of telus, it be much more difficult. also, big4 is more prestigious and it'll def open more doors.

i would also go with the big4, if u can, over telus CA training program. i heard a couple of individuals who got offers back in fall turned them down to go with big4....just for the stability, exit opportunities, casb/ufe support, etc.

the good thing bout telus though is they offer very attractive compensation with set weekday schedules with little to no OT. but dont forget....getting a CA through industry has limitations....your not a fullfledge CA as you did not fulfill the audit requirements unlike through public practice route....but i heard that shouldnt be too much of an issue if you ever need to become one...all you got to do is fulfill your audit hours through public practice and you should be good.

[Islander101]

& do remember though that 95% of CAs do not stay in audit, and the vast majority leave public practice to move to industry.

I think the last poster gave some great input re: Telus vs. Big 4. In my view, the best reason to get the CA is the public practice experience - although I have limited knowledge about the experience that Telus is offering.

To be the devil's advocate however, do remember that with the vast majority of CAs ending up in industry, the industry experience will put you ahead of the competition in some ways.

[rfd_incognito]

I don't know if this is the right thread to post in, but I think it is better then creating another accounting thread.....

I was wondering if anybody here in DAP has tried out for the Finance Management Development Program and Chartered Accountant Training Program from Telus?

I know that Telus is a big time employer in Vancouver and I was wondering if any of you guys that are in or trying to get into this program have any opinions on whether this is a good alternative to the Big 4?

thanks for your help in advance

Hi Jamoe, if you are currently enrolled in the DAP program and attending networking events you are mot likely interested in the Big 4. This is because of all of the propaganda that you are exposed too, through your professors and accounting firm representatives. Attaining a CA outside of a public practice CA firm is a new program, so you will not be able to find out a lot of information about exit opportunities or career advancement within the Finance Management Development Program (2008 was the first intake year).

Ultimately it should be up to you which interests you more, an opportunity at Telus or to work in public practice. Public practice is not all it is cracked up to be. There are good experiences to be had, but in the end a large percentage of CAs end up leaving public practice for industry. I would imagine working at Telus would have nowhere near the amount of overtime as a Big 4 firm (10 hours/semi-busy to 12+ hours/6 days a week during busy season). I guess what I am saying is that I know that you are probably being told public practice is the best place to get your experience, but what really matters is who YOU are and what YOU do with the opportunities you are given.

[thelaw604]

Hi Jamoe, if you are currently enrolled in the DAP program and attending networking events you are mot likely interested in the Big 4. This is because of all of the propaganda that you are exposed too, through your professors and accounting firm representatives. Attaining a CA outside of a public practice CA firm is a new program, so you will not be able to find out a lot of information about exit opportunities or career advancement within the Finance Management Development Program (2008 was the first intake year).

Ultimately it should be up to you which interests you more, an opportunity at Telus or to work in public practice. Public practice is not all it is cracked up to be. There are good experiences to be had, but in the end a large percentage of CAs end up leaving public practice for industry. I would imagine working at Telus would have nowhere near the amount of overtime as a Big 4 firm (10 hours/semi-busy to 12+ hours/6 days a week during busy season). I guess what I am saying is that I know that you are probably being told public practice is the best place to get your experience, but what really matters is who YOU are and what YOU do with the opportunities you are given.


Quoted for good advice.

I am in the TELUS FMDP CA program and it was what works for me and aligns with what I want as a career. You have to do what works for you and not just follow the crowd sometimes.

If anyone has any questions about the program, let me know.

[argyle]

I've been accepted to the September 09 start at DAP but because I don't have any accounting background I have to take the Quantative Methods Prep course. Does anybody have any information about this course? Is there a test or anything at the end that you need to pass before going on?

Any advice/help with this question? Thanks!

[apollom]

I've been accepted to the September 09 start at DAP but because I don't have any accounting background I have to take the Quantative Methods Prep course. Does anybody have any information about this course? Is there a test or anything at the end that you need to pass before going on?

Any advice/help with this question? Thanks!

I thought this course was optional. I'd skip it unless your math is very bad (which if that's the case, maybe accounting isn't the best choice?). I don't believe there is a test, just a few day workshop.

[apollom]

Ultimately it should be up to you which interests you more, an opportunity at Telus or to work in public practice. Public practice is not all it is cracked up to be. There are good experiences to be had, but in the end a large percentage of CAs end up leaving public practice for industry. I would imagine working at Telus would have nowhere near the amount of overtime as a Big 4 firm (10 hours/semi-busy to 12+ hours/6 days a week during busy season). I guess what I am saying is that I know that you are probably being told public practice is the best place to get your experience, but what really matters is who YOU are and what YOU do with the opportunities you are given.

I'd definitely agree with this advice. You will learn lots either way. If you're thinking of staying in public practice, then obviously big 4 is the way to go. But a lot of CAs head out to industry and this experience would likely help you there (Telus is the biggest company in BC after all). You would also likely work a lot less hours at Telus, which is a plus. The downside is, it's hard to know in advance what sort of career opportunities this will bring where as having big 4 on your resume is a great way to jump into many different careers/industries.

[fardiles]

Hi friends from DAP-UBC, I am new in this forum and have seen many kinds of opinions what is good I think, all opinions are valid and help the ones who want to study at DAP. I have a question and maybe some of you can help me with their experience and knowledge. Is it probable to find a job in accounting being a DAP student? how much you need to do before have a chance to apply for a job sucessfully? I have an administration background but not in accounting, more in purchasing and reengineering. But I need to work in order to pay the tuition fees and books, any help please? Any suggestion about accomodation? I will arrive the 1st week of September! Thanks for your ideas!