Paypal complaint: will I get my money back? [Archive]

jayk

Jan 18th, 2007, 01:05 AM

Hey guys

I sold an item on ebay recently, and got a buyer complaint, saying the item I sold was not in mint condition. It was in mint condition, maybe there was a bit of dust which I cleaned off.

Also, the buyer says the item wasn't in proper packaging material, and I put in newspaper to pack the parts together but didn't go crazy on packaging. The buyer was angry that the plastics parts may have been rattling inside or something. I'm not a packaging expert but I know that as long as the item arrived in safe, working condition that I don't expect to package everything like "Hello Kitty" fashion.

Really frustrating. This is after >100 transactions that I've done on ebay.
My funds of $186 are on hold by Paypal.

I even included a photo in my item description.

What is the likelihood that I will lose my money from Paypal? I have an ebay GC of $50 in my account so hopefully Paypal can't use that to blackmail my funds.

Thanks.

Kasakato

Jan 18th, 2007, 01:21 AM

Provide PayPal with the pictures and a tracking number and they should side with you.

Kasakato

Jan 18th, 2007, 01:22 AM

Also, if PayPal does release those funds- be sure to take them out ASAP. Dont let them sit in there for more than a second. If he does a charge back with a CC, you are screwed.

jayk

Jan 18th, 2007, 02:05 AM

Both of you offer valid advice, but should I offer the buyer a partial refund after buyer complaint cancellation and then get the complaint cancelled, then immediately transfer the money out, or should I just escalate by stating that a photo and proof of shipment were provided?

I'm just a bit untrusting of Paypal since I hear it's buyer protection rather than geared to seller protection.

I have 2 accounts under different emails, I think I should cancel both at once after transferring the money out to my bank account, as soon as I get the chance.

Hate Paypal now.

coeternity

Jan 18th, 2007, 02:50 AM

or u can choose return/refund. Paypal will require the buyer to return the item with method that has tracking number at the buyer's cost. That usually stop picky buyer from proceeding with the complaint

ejings

Jan 18th, 2007, 02:56 AM

most likely paypal wont do anything. you have pics and he did recieve the item. who says he didnt damage it himself.

jayk

Jan 18th, 2007, 09:02 PM

Got a message from the buyer, they received the item exactly as described in the photo, except the woman is now bitching how there was not enough padding in the box. (I was thinking, what a *****, you received your item and now you're complaining there wasn't enough padding?)

If the item gets sent back, is the buyer responsible for paying associated customs fees?

Also, must the item be sent back and confirmed BEFORE the money is refunded?

Only makes sense, or else the buyer would get both money AND the item while seller has a lost item to the buyer.

I really hope Paypal sides with me. Even though some of you guys have given great advice saying Paypal likely will side with me, I don't really trust Paypal given its shady history.

Kasakato

Jan 18th, 2007, 09:13 PM

If the buyer decides to send it back and provides PayPal with a tracking number, and refund says you didn't provide a refund, you will be out of luck.

coeternity

Jan 18th, 2007, 09:15 PM

If the buyer decides to send it back and provides PayPal with a tracking number, and refund says you didn't provide a refund, you will be out of luck.

what do you meant?

the refund record will be shown on the paypal account

Kasakato

Jan 18th, 2007, 09:25 PM

what do you meant?

the refund record will be shown on the paypal account

PayPal will not always conciser the refund being made, even if it does show the item has been refunded. Why?, ask PayPal.

jayk

Jan 18th, 2007, 09:30 PM

Jon Lai

Jan 18th, 2007, 09:31 PM

Believe it or not, I gave up on a dispute from 3 months ago and I logged in today and found that I won. Lmao?

coeternity

Jan 18th, 2007, 11:30 PM

but will the item need to be SENT before the refund is made?

I'm trying to figure out how it's supposed to work.

Also, I deleted my credit card numbers from the paypal profile.

Do I still need to go as far as cancelling the original CC's associated with my paypal account to avoid further charges?

Thanks

I think the buyer need to give paypal the tracking # before paypal refunds the money.

One potential problem is what if its something else in the package

jayk

Jan 19th, 2007, 12:05 AM

I think the buyer need to give paypal the tracking # before paypal refunds the money.

One potential problem is what if its something else in the package

that is one of my concerns.

Can I force the buyer to cough up customs fees expected on the item? ie. say the item was bought for this amount, and therefore you must include 30% of the cost, plus mail it yourself?

This is bound to piss the buyer off even more.

Kasakato

Jan 19th, 2007, 12:54 AM

Tell him to send it as a "Warranty replacement/return" You shouldn't get hit with any fees. If there are any, it automatically gets charged to the sender.

jayk

Jan 19th, 2007, 12:58 AM

and can Paypal still chase me for fees, after I remove my credit card info or bank info from the paypal profile?

Can they still hunt me down by using old records that are only deleted on my side?

jayk

Jan 19th, 2007, 01:17 PM

bump

jayk

Jan 20th, 2007, 03:19 PM

Noob1ee

Jan 20th, 2007, 05:17 PM

jayk

Jan 21st, 2007, 02:14 PM

also, I got charged some fee for the buyer opening up the complaint process.

The gross amount is -5.70 off the net amount which was supposed to be ~$186.

What's going on?
Paypal is charging ME because the buyer opened some complaint?

fl4wless

Jan 21st, 2007, 02:44 PM

and can Paypal still chase me for fees, after I remove my credit card info or bank info from the paypal profile?

Can they still hunt me down by using old records that are only deleted on my side?

If paypal put a hold of xxx dollars on your account and you dont have a balance, deleting your CC and Bank info doesnt do anything. After so many days they will send a collection agency after you, which has more fees and incurs interest.

Just have the buyer ship back the product, and deal with it when it arrives, If it comes back and its not he same item, take pictures, contact paypal, and deal with it.

jayk

Jan 21st, 2007, 02:54 PM

I'm really getting to hate Paypal now. I was just on the phone with a CSR who sounded like he just woke up throughout the whole conversation.

It sounds like Paypal will favor the BUYER. For the whole conversation he sounded like he was siding with the buyer. I said I packed the item properly, and he says "but the buyer says the item was rattling and if the packaging isn't proper then the seller is liable". So basically the prick sided with the

Doesn't mean the final ruling will be in favor of the buyer but basically.

Paypal does offer a partial refund service through them (****ers have thought of everything in the book) which the buyer was open to, but I have a feeling she will demand a high sum (from the sounds of her accusatory tone on the Paypal discussion).

Should I just refund the item? It's a lot of money $186 USD.

Paypal has set itself up so that it's NEVER liable for anything, always makes a profit and NEVER has to give in to anything.

mlerner

Jan 21st, 2007, 03:42 PM

Yup, Paypal just sucks (http://www.paypalsucks.com/). I wish you good luck though, I would side with you.

jayk

Jan 21st, 2007, 06:46 PM

Yeah, I hope ebay refunds my fees should the buyer demand a refund.

I really wanted to beat up the guy on the Paypal helpline, was such a prick. First word that came out of his mouth read "I don't really give a ****".

First sign that Google comes out with an auction site, I switching over same day.

Jon Lai

Jan 21st, 2007, 07:52 PM

With Paypal, NEVER pay for the money back even if the buyer files a complaint. Forget about the account and move on with life.

jayk

Jan 21st, 2007, 11:00 PM

With Paypal, NEVER pay for the money back even if the buyer files a complaint. Forget about the account and move on with life.

The buyer just got back to me with a ridiculous demand to send another new ergonomic headset together with $50 back to her, for an item that together with shipping cost ~$186. Obviously, I will not give into her wishful thinking.

Do you mean I should just take on the challenge and tell the buyer I refuse to refund? Or should I just accept a refund and get the person to send it back to me?

I'm just afraid that if I say send a refund back, the item may be sent damaged by the buyer who may have screwed it up, or not packed it properly. Or, if I refuse to refund and escalate, Paypal will just refund her the money regardless of what I say or do. Then, she will may end up with a free item plus money back and I will have just sent an expensive item to a ***** for nothing.

Has this situation happened to you before or anyone else on this forum?

Thanks.

stealth

Jan 22nd, 2007, 05:31 PM

Hmmm...doesnt shipping insurance come in to this at all?

Otherwise I think I'd either negotiate with the buyer maybe something like she keeps the original head set and discount it $25. or she returns it (shipping at her expense) and gets a full refund and if all is well, you wont leave her negative feedback as a scamming buyer. Hopefully this will be sufficient deterrent for her to just keep it.

Kasakato

Jan 22nd, 2007, 05:33 PM

Above poster has a point. If it was damaged in shipping, tell the buyer to take pics so you can froward it to the currier. Also be sure to let him know that filling a false report is illegal.

jayk

Jan 22nd, 2007, 07:23 PM

I offered a new standard headset with $15 rebate, and she countered with a special ergonomic headset shipped free, plus $50 rebate. I think that's way too much.

With shipping insurance won't she get all the money if anything happens anyways?

Also, regarding taking photos, I guess she could damage the item and then take a pic?

The Paypal CSR said that if the item gets dinged with customs, I'm responsible for paying all of it. Not entirely reasonable since she is the one sending the item.

And one last question: do they always send the collections agency after you if you cancel your cards etc? I'm asking since I'm concerned that either she will cancel her account and I'll be screwed and the agency won't go after her. Can they come after me even if I'm in Canada?

What do you think?

Jon Lai

Jan 22nd, 2007, 07:45 PM

The buyer just got back to me with a ridiculous demand to send another new ergonomic headset together with $50 back to her, for an item that together with shipping cost ~$186. Obviously, I will not give into her wishful thinking.

Do you mean I should just take on the challenge and tell the buyer I refuse to refund? Or should I just accept a refund and get the person to send it back to me?

I'm just afraid that if I say send a refund back, the item may be sent damaged by the buyer who may have screwed it up, or not packed it properly. Or, if I refuse to refund and escalate, Paypal will just refund her the money regardless of what I say or do. Then, she will may end up with a free item plus money back and I will have just sent an expensive item to a ***** for nothing.

Has this situation happened to you before or anyone else on this forum?

Thanks.

Just forget about it and move on. Either way, realize that the $200 is gone unless you never pay it back (good thing that you withdrew all monies already). If you pay her back or answer ANY of her requests, you'll just be doubling your loss. Better to just not pay anything back. Paypal will pay her back for you, and since Paypal is such a shady business anyways, let them eat up the $200.

Eventually, they'll send NCO, a collection agency after you, but they aren't legally allowed to collect from you, so just ignore their phone calls and after a few months they'll give up.

Actually, for such a small amount, I doubt they'll even send NCO after you.

espeed

Jan 22nd, 2007, 08:54 PM

Just forget about it and move on. Either way, realize that the $200 is gone unless you never pay it back (good thing that you withdrew all monies already). If you pay her back or answer ANY of her requests, you'll just be doubling your loss. Better to just not pay anything back. Paypal will pay her back for you, and since Paypal is such a shady business anyways, let them eat up the $200.

Eventually, they'll send NCO, a collection agency after you, but they aren't legally allowed to collect from you, so just ignore their phone calls and after a few months they'll give up.

Actually, for such a small amount, I doubt they'll even send NCO after you.

good point

jayk

Jan 22nd, 2007, 09:05 PM

but my problem is that Paypal is so sneaky. They've put a temporary hold on my funds before I can do anything until this is resolved.

jayk

Jan 23rd, 2007, 08:32 PM

but my problem is that Paypal is so sneaky. They've put a temporary hold on my funds before I can do anything until this is resolved.

bump

jayk

Jan 25th, 2007, 01:58 PM

I msg'd the buyer saying I'll give her $25 and a new headset.
Told her I'm a student and paying off debt.

She said she's a student too and uses a $180 transcriber with pedal to record her lectures (********, cuz she bought a couple of the same transcription units in the past...nobody records lectures with these anyways).

The buyer got back to me saying she would accept $50. She said actually she paid $35 for shipping not $25 (which is true).

But $50 is way too much.
What would you do in my situation?

Jon Lai

Jan 25th, 2007, 04:13 PM

but my problem is that Paypal is so sneaky. They've put a temporary hold on my funds before I can do anything until this is resolved.

You obviously haven't been reading my replies...

broc

Jan 25th, 2007, 04:33 PM

I would just tell her to ship everything back and refund the purchase when you receive it.

If it's not broken, she is just taking you for a ride. She bought a USED piece of electronics anyway, why would she expect it to be in new condition.

jayk

Feb 4th, 2007, 04:59 PM

I decided to offer a $25 partial refund to shut her up. I didn't pay extra attention to the packaging to make sure it wasn't rattling inside, but that's what the buyer was bitching about.

I phoned Paypal a while ago, and they said they can issue a partial refund through Paypal. Not sure if the CSR was BSing cuz he sounded like he couldn't care less on the phone.

The buyer tells me send $ or else she will escalate.

Can't Paypal issue a partial refund? No way I'm sending her money outside of this, cuz I am setting myself up to be scammed otherwise.

I guess my question is, can Paypal do this partial refund process?

Also, if Paypal rules in her favor, and I am forced to refund this item, if she sends the item broken, or puts $400 on the item value, and I get screwed with customs, do I get screwed by Paypal anyways if I decide I am not gonna pay the customs fee?

What if the item doesn't get back to me and gets lost or something?

Had no idea there were people on ebay willing to waste so much of their own time (AND mine!) to message all the time and ***** about every little detail of the transaction.

tlamm

Feb 5th, 2007, 04:55 PM

Just escalate the claim yourself. Offer a 25 dollar refund when you escalate it.

Paypal will contact you and the buyer for more info. Worst case is she has to send it back to you. An you give her a refund. If you get it back and its really damaged, blame her for poor shipping.

Or,

I have an open claim against a bad seller. Here is what it shows in my Paypal claim details.

"The seller has the option to provide a full refund for the amount of the transaction, offer a full refund if the item is returned in its original condition, offer a partial refund in an amount you agree to, provide proof that a refund was already issued to you, or disagree with your claim. If the seller does not respond by the deadline, the claim will be decided in your favor. You may cancel this case at any time by clicking "Cancel" below."

So another option is to tell her to escalate the claim, say she is happy getting back 25 dollars, and you just have to accept it.

Whatever you do stop talking to her outside of the Paypal process. Only communicate through paypal. That way you have a record of everything she is saying, like the part were she wants money back and a better headset.

jayk

Feb 8th, 2007, 06:50 PM

thanks

I have to put $25 back in my account since Paypal won't refund from the withheld amount (I know, stupid Paypal).

I've been suspended from ebay and this is the account I accepted money in.
If I sign up through a new ebay account with new credit card, but use this Paypal account, will they suspend my new ebay account too? I know ebay and Paypal claim they are 2 different institutions, but does ebay crosscheck paypal accounts too? This may be more a question for more seasoned ebay users.

shabby

Feb 9th, 2007, 08:14 PM

This sounds like a perfect scam, pretend that the stuff wasnt packaged properly, issue a complaint with paypal, demand money from the seller and... profit!
I think i'll try it out someday...

tlamm

Feb 9th, 2007, 08:29 PM

jayk

Feb 9th, 2007, 08:52 PM

This sounds like a perfect scam, pretend that the stuff wasnt packaged properly, issue a complaint with paypal, demand money from the seller and... profit!
I think i'll try it out someday...

She initially wanted $50, I was like $50 my ass.

I'll admit, there was a bit of rattling in the box, but the buyer was using that to profit from me. Stuff arrived perfectly. She said the headphones (bendable metal by the way) were broken, but no details beyond that. Good thing I shill bid her up which she doesn't know LOL. (I know, my bad, but because I don't respect ebay or paypal)

But I decided to pay the $25 to settle, since I didn't want any more hassle, not worth my time. Also, I keep messaging Paypal about how I don't have enough time allowance to transfer funds into my account (Since they won't let you pull the $25 from the amount that's being held from you), service@paypal.com and re!@#@paypal.com (complaints dep't email, can't remember it) never answer my emails. They are such a ****ing scammer company. Apparently, the only way to reach them is through the "email only" way acc. to a rep. on the phone.

Come to think of it, Paypal and Premier Fitness should team up their shady businsesses to take advantage of more customers!

tlamm

Feb 9th, 2007, 09:07 PM

You lose all respect when you admit to shill bidding.

Explains why ebay suspended your account.

Its sellers like you that make ebay and paypal bad things to use.

She initially wanted $50, I was like $50 my ass.

I'll admit, there was a bit of rattling in the box, but the buyer was using that to profit from me. Stuff arrived perfectly. She said the headphones (bendable metal by the way) were broken, but no details beyond that. Good thing I shill bid her up which she doesn't know LOL. (I know, my bad, but because I don't respect ebay or paypal)

But I decided to pay the $25 to settle, since I didn't want any more hassle, not worth my time. Also, I keep messaging Paypal about how I don't have enough time allowance to transfer funds into my account (Since they won't let you pull the $25 from the amount that's being held from you), service@paypal.com and re!@#@paypal.com (complaints dep't email, can't remember it) never answer my emails. They are such a ****ing scammer company. Apparently, the only way to reach them is through the "email only" way acc. to a rep. on the phone.

Come to think of it, Paypal and Premier Fitness should team up their shady businsesses to take advantage of more customers!