Imports vs Domestic - Pros n Cons

[Bargain_Junkie]

My family's vehicle was recently stolen so now we're forced to buy a new one.

I've heard it is really worth the extra $ to buy an import. What are the best import companies and what are the best domestic companies?

Also i've heard some bad things about Ford. Does anyone drive a Ford, does it give you any trouble? We've been looking at buying an Explorer but backed off a bit since some say Ford is a bad company.

Can someone list some pros/cons about Domestic companies like GM, Chevy, Ford, etc and some of Imports companies like Toyota, Nissan, Infinitie, and etc.

Thanks

[cipher]

Hyundai - best bang for the buck. Quality equals and betters most domestics. Kills the "imports are more expensive" myth.
Toyota, Honda - very high quality and you pay more for it. Typically best mileage across the line. Less room for price negotiation.
GM & Chrysler - quality varies across the line. Easier to negotiate a lower price because of loss of market share to imports.
Ford - I've never owned one. Probably never will because they seem to fall apart after a few years...IMO.
Mazda, Nissan - quality varies across the line. Not as fuel efficient as Toyota, Honda.
German imports (VW, BMW, Mercedes) - Quality is an issue. Whoppingly expensive to service. Other side of coin...usually very good ergonomics and very quiet inside.
Lexus, Acura - top of the line quality. Blows away BMW & Mercedes in quality...but they don't have the same feel of their German counterparts.
Infiniti - higher quality than Nissan, but not as good as Lexus or Acura.

THis is just my opinion and I'm sure others will disagree with me...:cheesygri

[frogger]

It really depends what market segment you are looking at.. body on frame SUV's like the Explorer are a different ballgame. So is new vs. used.

[TenzoR]

It's a gamble, you play by the amount of risk you are willing to take by the auto company's track records in terms of reliability

But remember this, even if you do buy Import (Japanese) there is still a possibility you will get a lemon, or a bad "copy" of the car.

However, lately with the recalls, Japanese Car companies aren't doing too hot in terms of reliability (compared with 1980 - early 1990). Then again most people are switching into new cars every 4-5 years so "long" term reliability isn't really in their criteria either.

I've looked at the underside of the Toyota Corolla (at DVNLT) and it looked absolutely pathetic (Design wise of course) compare to the Mazda 3 (at Agincourt).

[SkiD]

First, the most important point to remember:
Don't be a "sheeple", if you blindly pick a vehicle based on perception alone rather than considering ALL options available, you might get a vehicle that does not suit YOUR needs or isn't as good as previous history dictates.

General comments:
- Generally the more you spend on a vehicle, the better built it is (ie. a Yaris might have good quality when compared to competing models, but do not expect the same quality and reliability as a Lexus, the Yaris competes on price, so cuts have to be made somewhere)

- There are "bad" models within brands and "bad" cars within models with ALL manufacturers (yes, even Lexus builds lemons)

- Consumer Reports(CR) is not the bible for how good vehicles are, they are considered import biased and there are concerns about their rating methodologies, see here (http://truedelta.com/pieces/shortcomings.php) for more info

- JD Power(JDP) surveys are a little better than CR in their methodologies, but their indexes don't go far enough to consider "real" long term reliability, currently they rank manufacturers at 90 days and 3 years after purchase.

- When looking at JDP, one thing is obvious if you look at the rankings (and historical data) the gap between the "best" and "worst" manufacturers has been narrowing. Currently, on average, the "best" manufacturers have 2 problems in 3 years and the "worst" have 4 problems in 3 years (not a lot of difference)

- a good place for "real world" research is the Edmunds.com forums or sites like Toyotanation.com to see the types of problems people have with specific models and trim levels (remember EVERY vehicle has problems)

- In general with respect to reliability, (Honda/Toyota) > (other Japanese/Korean and Domestics) > (European), but remember this gap has become a lot smaller over the last few years

- Fuel economy estimates - in the "real world", generally domestics get close to or better than rated on the highway and worse than rated in the city, imports tend to do the opposite, get worse ratings on the highway and close to the rated amount in the city

- The best deal on a "new" vehicle is to buy one that is a couple of years old so that you aren't the one to take a hit on depreciation.

- On RFD there are a lot of members from metro Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal, because of this you will find that there is a bias towards small import vehicles (because that is what works for them), so anyone asking for advice on which car to buy on this forum will get members blindly recommending Toyota/Honda without considering the OP's requirements.

[gherikill]

My advice is buy a domestic that is a few years old. Depreciation is your friend. GM's quality has been as good as Toyota's for about 3 years now. The Japanese quality argument is just a myth.

[KawaiiTentacleBeast]

Why don't you examine each car individually instead of trying to make blanket statements about an entire brand? :confused:

[DaLurker]

First, the most important point to remember:
Don't be a "sheeple", if you blindly pick a vehicle based on perception alone rather than considering ALL options available, you might get a vehicle that does not suit YOUR needs or isn't as good as previous history dictates.

Why don't you examine each car individually instead of trying to make blanket statements about an entire brand?

QTF!

It's highly ignorant of people to consider a cars merits based merely on their badges. That's like picking your employees based on their skin colour or gender.

In past reliability test statistics Domestics were ranked higher than Germans while Japanese ranked the highest but then again you can manipulate statistics all you want. It seems import and domestic reliability have both reached a point where picking any car from all brands you're chances of getting and excellent worry free car and a car that tends to break often in the first 4 years of owning it are equal.

Long term reliability is yet to be seen with the newer more reliable domestics however.

Really when you're buying a new car you need to make the following decisions:

1. What's my price range?
2. What features MUST I have (AC, Auto, Power amenities?)
3. What Type of car (Sports Coupe, 4 dr sedan, SUV, Minivan, etc)
4. So which of the cars in Question 3 with features from Question 2 can I buy with the money I've decided on in Question 1?
5. Do I want to buy new or used?
6. Test drive your options.

Then decide.

[VivienM]

As others have said, what matters most is what YOU like.

Decide what size/category of vehicle you want, then look at all the automakers that offer those. Go out to the dealers. Test drive the things. YOUR own attitude is the most important, not some professional reviewer's who may not share your taste in cars.

One last thing: although this is not as true as it used to be, beware of pricing for domestic automakers. They have a tendency to over-MSRP their cars, then make up for it by offering some very low financing/leasing rates. So it may turn out that a car with a higher MSRP on the manufacturer's web site is actually substantially cheaper...

[KawaiiTentacleBeast]

Forget all the other stuff. Buy the Z06 Corvette. Best car in the world in terms of speed/price. Everything else is just a minor inconvenience when you can go that fast. :lol:

[aquariaguy]

Forget all the other stuff. Buy the Z06 Corvette. Best car in the world in terms of speed/price. Everything else is just a minor inconvenience when you can go that fast. :lol:

But when you crash, you want some nice airbags. Not the dashboard hitting you in the face lol.

Damn, this thread is gonna be buncha people flaming back and forth lol

[Focus]

pick you few cars/SUV you like and go test drive those, and buy the one you like the most.

[KawaiiTentacleBeast]

It has airbags. So there's nothing to worry about. You can get the optional side impact airbags too but it's only going to slow you down. :lol:

[radeonboy]

These types of threads wont work. I just know it.

But I have something that is a little stereotypical but still works.

If you want mad torque = Go american

If you want high revving = go japanese like Honda

If you want passionate driving with luxuary = go german

[cipher]

These types of threads wont work. I just know it.

But I have something that is a little stereotypical but still works.

If you want mad torque = Go american

If you want high revving = go japanese like Honda

If you want passionate driving with luxuary = go german

If you love driving = Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini.

[jamesng5]

Hello,

I have owned 10 different cars in my lifetime.
1 Honda
2 Acuras
1 Nissan
2 Gms
1 Ford
1 Dodge
2 Mazdas

Worst and most repairs was the Dodge, Ford was next, then GM. (GM was the best of the domestics by far) If I were to buy a domestic, go GM.

In terms of reliability, the Honda was the best product, followed by the Acura. The Nissan and Mazda were good products also but didn't have the fit and finish and ride quality of the Honda and Acura. When I buy a car I look for quality and reliability first. If you were to keep a car 10 years and it cost you an extra $5000.00 for a japanese import, that would be an extra $500.00 a year for better resale, quality, depreciation, and lower major breakdowns.

At the end of the day when buying a car, think of it as a long term investment. Remember just because a car is japanese dosen't always mean it it better. I always look at the track history of the repairs and the company it comes from.

By the way I still own a 1995 Honda odyssey 194000 kms and a 1997 Acura 3.2 Tl with 140000 kms.

Hope this helps,
James

[MrDisco]

First, the most important point to remember:

I like your post.

[MrDisco]

I've heard it is really worth the extra $ to buy an import. What are the best import companies and what are the best domestic companies?

Can someone list some pros/cons about Domestic companies like GM, Chevy, Ford, etc and some of Imports companies like Toyota, Nissan, Infinitie, and etc.


First what kind of car are you looking for? An SUV?

"Best" import companies I suppose are Honda and Toyota because of the perception of higher quality and the higher retained value. However you do pay a premium for this.

Pros/Cons are too generic to list w/o knowing what models you're looking at. Also a Chevy vs an Infinity is a laughable comparison. One is a value minded brand (ignore the 'Vette) while the other is in the luxury segment.

[MrDisco]

Worst and most repairs was the Dodge, Ford was next, then GM. (GM was the best of the domestics by far) If I were to buy a domestic, go GM.


This is true, and certainly other reports would agree with your findings (heck my GM also has been a money pit).

On the other hand this is only worth noting if you were looking for a used vehicle. The GM of 10 years ago is not the same as the GM of today.

Using your $5000 example, you could also think of it another way. Buy a domestic for less and take the difference in savings and invest it (or if truly paranoid buy the manufacturer extended warranty). When/If there is a repair use those funds to repair the vehicle. Why pay the money upfront? Note, I'm not saying CamCords are not worth the price but what I am saying is the op shouldn't buy a car b/c thats what everyone else drives. If they love (i.e) the Ford Fusion then go for it and enjoy it.

[Bargain_Junkie]

Thanks for all the input everyone.

My family is planning on buying an SUV and have been looking at Ford Explorers but I think we'll back off from ford and go for a Nissan Pathfinder or GMC Jimmy.

I've heard bad stories about Ford.

[frogger]

I would not recommend the Jimmy, thats pretty old and GM back then was far from good.

[VivienM]

My family is planning on buying an SUV and have been looking at Ford Explorers but I think we'll back off from ford and go for a Nissan Pathfinder or GMC Jimmy.

I've heard bad stories about Ford.

What year of SUV are we talking?

If 2002+, the GM entry would be the Envoy/Trailblazer. A vehicle that is very good in a lot of ways (my uncle has one) and quite troubling in others...

[satisfcuktion]

Hello,

I have owned 10 different cars in my lifetime.
1 Honda
2 Acuras
1 Nissan
2 Gms
1 Ford
1 Dodge
2 Mazdas

Worst and most repairs was the Dodge, Ford was next, then GM. (GM was the best of the domestics by far) If I were to buy a domestic, go GM.

In terms of reliability, the Honda was the best product, followed by the Acura. The Nissan and Mazda were good products also but didn't have the fit and finish and ride quality of the Honda and Acura. When I buy a car I look for quality and reliability first. If you were to keep a car 10 years and it cost you an extra $5000.00 for a japanese import, that would be an extra $500.00 a year for better resale, quality, depreciation, and lower major breakdowns.

At the end of the day when buying a car, think of it as a long term investment. Remember just because a car is japanese dosen't always mean it it better. I always look at the track history of the repairs and the company it comes from.

By the way I still own a 1995 Honda odyssey 194000 kms and a 1997 Acura 3.2 Tl with 140000 kms.

Hope this helps,
James

Still have my 1996 Acura 2.5 TL on my driveway as our beater and running STRONG *touches wood*. Considering it is 10 years old, the style HAS aged, but not to the point that it is ugly. I still find its styling somewhat nice after a good personal amateur detailing job. IMO, japanese car's styling also "lasts" better. ie. Compare a 1999 Prelude to say, errr.. 1999 Sebring?

[TrevorK]

MO, japanese car's styling also "lasts" better. ie. Compare a 1999 Prelude to say, errr.. 1999 Sebring?

When comparing cars within a class, I don't think that's a fair statement.

Compare a 1996 Corolla to a 1996 Cavalier.
Compare a 1996 Integra to a 1996 Camaro.
Compare a 1996 Accord to a 1996 Grand Am.

I don't think there's a huge difference in terms of remaining stylish. There are certain exceptions, but let's face it. When dealing with cars within a class the styling queues typically going to 'wear out' within a couple years (Coinciding with the model makeovers).

[nano]

Still have my 1996 Acura 2.5 TL on my driveway as our beater and running STRONG *touches wood*. Considering it is 10 years old, the style HAS aged, but not to the point that it is ugly. I still find its styling somewhat nice after a good personal amateur detailing job. IMO, japanese car's styling also "lasts" better. ie. Compare a 1999 Prelude to say, errr.. 1999 Sebring?

good luck with your TL my 1996 TL spend the last month at the garage and it just got a "conditional" pass for emissions.

[radeonboy]

good luck with your TL my 1996 TL spend the last month at the garage and it just got a "conditional" pass for emissions.

It has ALL to do with proper maintenance. How well you "babied" your car.

[Samir]

"Imports" and "Domestics" are rapidly fading concepts. Think that the GM car you got is a true "Domestic" ? The Aveo & Optra are both Korean cars.

Toyota is building cars in the US bible belt and soon in Woodstock Ont.

VW built Jettas in Mexico.

Mazda is a Japanese car, apparently, that shares components with Volvo and Ford.

Like the Nissan Versa? Check out the French Renault Megane.

The Chrysler Crossfire was conceived and designed in Germany by Mercedes-Benz.

You're better off going on a car-by-car basis. In each car class, some cars excel, others are middle of the pack, others aren't worth it.

If you're looking for a family car in the middle price range (the most typical car people would buy) you choices are almost endless: Camry, Accord, Buick Lucerne, Nissan Altima, Hyundai Sonata, etc.

[KawaiiTentacleBeast]

Like the Nissan Versa? Check out the French Renault Megane.

You mean Renault Clio. :lol:

[that_staples_guy]

Also i've heard some bad things about Ford. Does anyone drive a Ford, does it give you any trouble? We've been looking at buying an Explorer but backed off a bit since some say Ford is a bad company.



My family has never owned a domestic for at least 15 years. But my neighbour and his wife both drive late model Fords. A Fusion and a Focus. The Focus wouldn't start one day, had to be towed away, wouldn't shift to neutral so it had to be dragged out. The Fusion had a bevy of little problems too.

Weird thing is, my Dad drives a Honda around worth less than the laptop I'm typing on and it's never had as many problems as the much newer Fords next door.

[satisfcuktion]

It has ALL to do with proper maintenance. How well you "babied" your car.

10 years with 120k clicks. You tell me how we used to baby our car. Its the family beater now.

[radeonboy]

10 years with 120k clicks. You tell me how we used to baby our car. Its the family beater now.

haha, but really its true. if you keep up with regular maintenance with the engine, other stuff, and keep up with exterior, your car will last and last (although I would say some cars are worth it more than others, example = dodge sundance not worth it imo, it'll break down no matter what)

my family still has a 1992 Civic (purchased at that time new) and its 15 years old and has close to 300K clicks on the same stock engine and tranny. Still running like a champ. Paint is still pretty good too.

Our 1998 Accord (purchased at that time new) and its 9 years now and has like close to 210K clicks, still running like a champ.

[chriswalsh]

My parents have an '03 Pathfinder... I wouldn't recommend it. It's about to go out of warranty and recently they have been having 4x4 problems (ie expensive), and have had to replace the muffler and much of the exhaust system already.

I would consider that explorer you mentioned, ford has concentrated on SUVs/trucks the last decade and seems to put out a fairly good product from my experience.

I have friends with explorers, rangers, and I have an F150, all of us are happy.

As others suggested, check out owner forums to get a feel for the types of things that go wrong with each vehicle, but remember people dont usually find such a forum unless they are having problems, so they tend to over-represent the frequency of each problem.

[MrDisco]

My parents have an '03 Pathfinder... I wouldn't recommend it. It's about to go out of warranty and recently they have been having 4x4 problems (ie expensive), and have had to replace the muffler and much of the exhaust system already.

Agreed. My aunt used to have the Infinity QX4 and they had nothing but issues once it was out of warranty.

[Anessa]

I would recommend a used Lexus. My family friend has had one of the first gen LS400s since 1989 and the inside still smells and feels like new. The leather is still pretty much leather. It hasn't cracked or become pleather. Only the interval maintainence issues have come up eg. timing belt, water pump, sparkplugs, etc. And the cigarette lighter stopped working.

[baboo]

Agreed. My aunt used to have the Infinity QX4 and they had nothing but issues once it was out of warranty.

^^
Yeah, I used to drive a 98 QX4, until it got stolen 3 months ago.

Problems start happen after the warranty was up, although small problems, but still, it was annoying.

As much as I miss my QX-4, I will not buy another Nissan.

I am not sure what OP's budget is, but if it is up to me, for mid size SUV, I will test drive the following,

Honda Pilot
Ford Explore
2007 Mitsu Outlander (It's actually a compact size SUV, but I like it..:cheesygri )
Subby Forester( or the B9 if the budget permits)
Saturn Vue

Although personally I won't buy anoterh SUV again, because experience tell me that it is really not that big in term of cabin space, and yet it drinks gas like crazy. I will proabbly go for a wagon.:)

[BartBandy]

Actually, I've heard good things about the previous-generation Pathy. But there are good and bad examples of every model. It just comes down to statistics. Consumer Reports ranks vehicles based on consumer feedback, which is about the only way to do it.

Don't pay ANY attention to the J.D. Power awards. "Initial Quality" rankings are based on how many problems are found on the average vehicle from the factory. By their scores, a car with a bad transmission has better "initial quality" than one with a malformed grab handle and a burnt-out interior light.

My 99 Acura 1.6EL has been fantastic, and I just crossed 190K yesterday, and has never left me stranded in the 67K that I've owned it. Conversely, I carried a jug of water in case my latest water pump leaked in my 98 Ford Contour (purchased new in late 97), and a massively expensive transmission failure basically rendered it to scrap metal at 154K, back in 2002.

[SkiD]

Consumer Reports ranks vehicles based on consumer feedback, which is about the only way to do it.


I disagree, because the owners of the vehicles get to decide if the problems they had were "serious" or not, bias can be brought into the equation. It would be much better if the rankings were based on actual repair time in the shop (if it takes longer than a day, than it's a serious issue).

Also, I would much rather have absolute numbers when comparing statistics (so I can draw my own conclusions) instead of CR's bubble rankings. How much difference is their really between an average rating and an above average rating? There is no way to know this with CR's rating system.

The best way to rank vehicles would be if we knew on average how often a car would be in the shop and what the chances are of getting a "peach" (no problems or very little) or a "lemon" (a vehicle with a lot more than average repair time).

[BartBandy]

There is no perfectly accurate way to measure long-term reliability of vehicles unless you managed to give a few thousand car to a few thousand objective scientists. Consumer Reports, for all its shortcomings, is still the best bet for predicting the reliability of a new car.

[Bargain_Junkie]

I heard Ford Trucks are built very well but thier cars aren't.

Any truth to this??? I do notice many Ford Trucks on the road.

Has anyone had any experience with the Nissan Xterra?

[terrybear]

Has anyone had any experience with the Nissan Xterra?

Heard there pretty good ... I don't own or drive a veicle .... but I would say look at offerings from honda & toyota for shure. Toyota put out a version of there legondary landcruiser awhile back .... looks like a tonka truck but still cool lookin :)

[Madrid2k]

I don't think one can make blanket statements about every single manufacturer. However, most industry experts - LemonAid, Consumers Guide, JD Powers have consistently rated the Japanese manufacturers at or near the top in reliability ratings for the past three decades. Myth? Hype? Stereotype? I personally don't think so.

I'm a Honda driver. Why? Because all of my Honda vehicles were virtually problem free and required only regular maintenance, such as oil changes, brakes, timing belts etc. There were never any engine or transmission failures.

Here are some of my former rides:

1988 Honda Prelude - 280,000 kms
- regular maintenance only

1988 CRX si - 390,000 kms
- regular maintenance
- cv boot needed to be replaced

2001 Honda Accord - 187,000 kms
- regular maintenance only
- driver's power door lock shorted out, but I think it was a result from the rustproofing spray

I've spoken to other high-mileage Honda owners, and the majority of them have similar experiences. If you do the regular maintenance, your Honda will last forever.

I'm currently driving a 2005 Honda Pilot EXL RES. It's been running on synthetic since its first oil change and I also got it rust-proofed. I plan on keeping it for a very long time. I expect that I'll still be driving it past 2025 (just as long as gas isn't $5/litre).

[NuSpeed]

buy a honda and save gas and the enviroment end of story

[SkiD]

- On RFD there are a lot of members from metro Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal, because of this you will find that there is a bias towards small import vehicles (because that is what works for them), so anyone asking for advice on which car to buy on this forum will get members blindly recommending Toyota/Honda without considering the OP's requirements.

Thanks for all the input everyone.

My family is planning on buying an SUV and have been looking at Ford Explorers but I think we'll back off from ford and go for a Nissan Pathfinder or GMC Jimmy.

I've heard bad stories about Ford.

buy a honda and save gas and the enviroment end of story

Thanks for proving my point NuSpeed :D

[TrevorK]

I'm a Honda driver. Why? Because all of my Honda vehicles were virtually problem free and required only regular maintenance, such as oil changes, brakes, timing belts etc. There were never any engine or transmission failures.


Unfortunately there are just as many domestic owners that can say the exact same thing ;)

[bionicbadger]

There is no perfectly accurate way to measure long-term reliability of vehicles unless you managed to give a few thousand car to a few thousand objective scientists. Consumer Reports, for all its shortcomings, is still the best bet for predicting the reliability of a new car.

I'd trust edmonds more than CR. At least on Edmonds you get actual owners writing in about the cars rather than some "test lab".

[squrilley75]

Imports are the best for reliability, I drove my 2003 acura EL to Vegas, Phoenix and Mexico last year and never had a problem with it, also Imports hold their value more than a domestic. (I have owned both).

[new_vr]

I'd trust edmonds more than CR. At least on Edmonds you get actual owners writing in about the cars rather than some "test lab".
And Edmunds also cares about more then the number of faults a car has...like how it actually drives

[VivienM]

Imports are the best for reliability, I drove my 2003 acura EL to Vegas, Phoenix and Mexico last year and never had a problem with it, also Imports hold their value more than a domestic. (I have owned both).

It's a 2003... I seriously doubt ANY 2003 from ANY brand, import or domestic, would break down on a 6000km road trip. If it does, then there's something seriously screwy...

[Bargain_Junkie]

I hear Ford is the leader in trucks and makes high quality trucks.

Any truth to this? I see a lot of Ford Trucks on the roads

[chriswalsh]

I hear Ford is the leader in trucks and makes high quality trucks.

Any truth to this? I see a lot of Ford Trucks on the roads

They sell more F-series than any other truck on the planet, i think that is fact

I have an '04, great truck no problems so far. My only complaint is fuel economy but with a 2.5 ton vehicle I maybe shouldn't expect so much (~17.5mpg). I haven't been inside them, but the new GM trucks look pretty nice, though I think Ford seems to have higher quality looking interiors.

[VivienM]

They sell more F-series than any other truck on the planet, i think that is fact

GM sells more pickup trucks than Ford, but the GMs are sold under two brand names, so Ford outsells the Chevy Silverado or GMC Sierra...

[weedb0y]

Best deal for used. GM Wide Bodys (Grand Prix, Impala)

I drive an Acura myself and got a Civic in the household and buddy just bought a 99 Grand PRix for $4000 incl taxes..

I gotta admit that Grand prix is worth it for the price.. compared to the 95's acura or civic..

[VivienM]

Best deal for used. GM Wide Bodys (Grand Prix, Impala)

Random FYI: it's actually GM W-Body. The Grand Prix was advertised as "WideTrack" or something like that, but it's actually no wider...

There are other W bodies. Buick Regal, Buick Century, Oldsmobile Intrigue, Chevy Lumina...

I drive an Acura myself and got a Civic in the household and buddy just bought a 99 Grand PRix for $4000 incl taxes..

I gotta admit that Grand prix is worth it for the price.. compared to the 95's acura or civic..

... and the Grand Prix was the worst of that generation of W bodies. The others are better, especially inside.

$4000, though, that's cheap. What's the mileage? What engine?

[Chookman]

Up until recently, I've always driven sub $5000 cars over 10 years of age. I bought cheap and maintained them the same way (cheap). If you are the type to NOT take great care of your vehicle and treat it as something to get you from A-B, buy Japanese.

If you just do basic maintenance, the Honda/Toyota/Subaru (I've owned all 3) will have a much greater chance of lasting longer at less expense than the domestic (of which I've owned Buick, Chrysler, Ford, Pontiac).

From my experience, I'll never buy GM again. The Pontiac was a nightmare and the Buick was bad which slowly killed me with regular $500 repairs until the tranny croaked. The Chrysler had AC and tranny problems = big$$$. The Ford was the best of the domestics.

The Subaru was awesome with needing just regular maintenance and the Toyotas were fine too except the one when I blew the engine (my fault - improper coolant change procedure when replacing the thermostat) but even that was a cheap repair thanks to the Shaken law. The Hondas/Acuras were great too with just needing routine maintenance.

On all of my Japanese cars, the drivetrain (which is usually the source of big $$$) outlasted the body. (Horrible rustproofing on 80's Japanese cars) In each case, I had to retire the car because the car rusted out around me and became unsafe. On the domestics, it was a repair that cost much more than the value of the car that caused me to give up on it. (tranny on Buick, AC/tranny on Chrysler, two cracked engine blocks on the Pontiac + brakes every 15K + more I don't want to mention, rust and suspension on the Ford - although the Ford was a pretty good little car. It's my friend's Ranger that has had 4 trannys in it that has soured me on Ford.)

New is a different ball game especially if you don't plan on keeping it a long time and driving it into the ground.

[Bargain_Junkie]

Thanks for all the input everyone it's really helpful and appreciated.

I have a few more questions:

How is Infinity??? Is it with Nissan or better then Nissan??? Where do the vehicle originate from, Germany???

What are your thoughts on Infinity and the Infinity Qx4? Is Infinity a good company?

[VivienM]

Infiniti is Nissan's luxury brand. Most of their vehicles are built in Japan...

[new_vr]

The Subaru was awesome with needing just regular maintenance and the Toyotas were fine too except the one when I blew the engine (my fault - improper coolant change procedure when replacing the thermostat) but even that was a cheap repair thanks to the Shaken law. The Hondas/Acuras were great too with just needing routine maintenance.
I have a few friends who have subarus...I wouldn't say they have taken regular maintenance...especially due to the 2.5L engines head gasket problems...and repair costs are insane

[Chookman]

I have a few friends who have subarus...I wouldn't say they have taken regular maintenance...especially due to the 2.5L engines head gasket problems...and repair costs are insane

What model years do they have? Mine was an '84. It was a tank. Obviously cars were built much simpler back then with wider tolerances. Maybe that was why I had good luck.

[Slippery_Pete]

What model years do they have? Mine was an '84. It was a tank. Obviously cars were built much simpler back then with wider tolerances. Maybe that was why I had good luck.

No most likely because with any car....some have luck and some don't. Its just some manufacturers have more cars with "luck" than others...ie Toyota while some don't...ie Yugo....:)

[weedb0y]

Random FYI: it's actually GM W-Body. The Grand Prix was advertised as "WideTrack" or something like that, but it's actually no wider...

There are other W bodies. Buick Regal, Buick Century, Oldsmobile Intrigue, Chevy Lumina...



... and the Grand Prix was the worst of that generation of W bodies. The others are better, especially inside.

$4000, though, that's cheap. What's the mileage? What engine?

W-Body! =) 99 Grand Prix with 175K on it. SE.. I have seen GTPs for $3500 on RFD..99 as well.

[VivienM]

W-Body! =) 99 Grand Prix with 175K on it. SE.. I have seen GTPs for $3500 on RFD..99 as well.

SE... that's the 3.1, isn't it?

[Bargain_Junkie]

Thanks for all the input everyone it's really helpful and appreciated.

I have a few more questions:

How is Infinity??? Is it with Nissan or better then Nissan??? Where do the vehicle originate from, Germany???

What are your thoughts on Infinity and the Infinity Qx4? Is Infinity a good company?

???

[baboo]

Thanks for all the input everyone it's really helpful and appreciated.

I have a few more questions:

How is Infinity??? Is it with Nissan or better then Nissan??? Where do the vehicle originate from, Germany???

What are your thoughts on Infinity and the Infinity Qx4? Is Infinity a good company?

Infiniti/Nissan = Lexus/Toyota = Acura/Honda

I drove a '98 QX4 for 8 years, it is OK, no big problem.

[Bargain_Junkie]

Infiniti/Nissan = Lexus/Toyota = Acura/Honda

I drove a '98 QX4 for 8 years, it is OK, no big problem.
Sounds good, anyone else ever drive a Nissan or Infiniti??? What was your experience with it?