opinions on used entry level Luxury

[wylie]

Looking for some opinions please.

I am looking to replace my 99 Chrysler sedan with something more upscale. Ideally I would like the new Infinti G35 or BMW 330I, but with second child on the way they are way out of my price range.

I am thinking in the 18K to 25K(max) price range

What do you guys think about a 2003 Audi A4 1.8 Quattro? Obviously reliability will not be up to the japanese competitors level, but that is okay.

Requirements: I want something that is upscale, 5 speed with all the creature comforts and fun to drive.

The TSX doesn't do it for me at all. The TL is nice but pricy used. Not thrilled with the BMW look unless it has the M-sport appearance package. 2003 G35 doesn't do it for me, the coupe would but 2 doors not practical with kids. C320 looks nice but I hear it is not fun to drive and most are automatics. Cadillac - not sure about the upscale feel of interiors and quality

[deep]

Why not a used G35 then? It sounds like you like the car....or do you actually prefer Audi?

Something like this (http://www.trader.ca/powerpage/details.aspx?vlotid=231697&adid=5491130) fits just into your price range, and you can go all the way down to this (http://www.trader.ca/powerpage/details.aspx?vlotid=1355828&adid=5518519) which is at the bottom end of the range. Quite a few clicks on that second one, mind you.

[wylie]

I love the 2007 model but I am not a huge fan of the looks of the last generation 4 door G35 (exterior and especially the interior). My buddy has one and he likes it.
I have not ruled it out completely, but it is low on the list

[fast_typeR]

perhaps you can look into the Acura CSX... for $25k you can probably get it new.

I have driven it before, good revver, decent power (160hps), handling's decent and the sportsshifter was pretty fun. However, the interior's a bit controversial to me

[wylie]

I am sure the CSX is a nice car, but I do not like the looks of the interior or exterior of this rebadged Civic

[nerdonsite]

how about a saab 9-3? the interior's not the best of quality from what i hear but they can be had cheap and are fun to drive. Not to mention the excellent safety features.

[TenzoR]

Acura/BMW are nice if you buy their used certified series. It comes with 2 year additional warranty on top of the original warranty.

[stevethewheel]

If you are buying used luxury you need to focus on reliability (or the cost of repair).

It totally sucks as complicated systems age and parts fail that are hard to get at for replacement.

[B0000rt]

If you purchase a '04 or '05 Caddy, you're covered until 2008 or 2009 until it's no charge for anything, scheduled maintainence is up. (4 yrs 80,000kms covers such things as brakes, air filters, oil changes, you name it)

Similarly if you purchase an older Benz (I believe it's 2004 and older) you'll have a similar coverage for warranty.

I don't know what the situation with older BMWs or Audis are, but new BMWs come with a similar no charge scheduled maintainence.

These things save you enormous amounts of money! :D

[mlc2000]

Isn't the op looking for entry level lux? Where did you come up with the CSX ( formerly EL) ?

Get a 4 yr old low mileage TL or an Avalon.

Both are well equipped and won't leave you penniless like an old german car.
(Audi/BMW/MB)





perhaps you can look into the Acura CSX... for $25k you can probably get it new.

I have driven it before, good revver, decent power (160hps), handling's decent and the sportsshifter was pretty fun. However, the interior's a bit controversial to me

[fast_typeR]

purely because the CSX is considered an entry luxury level car?

[wylie]

A 4 year old TL would be the old design wouldn't it? It is not as nice as the latest generation.

Avalons are for grandpa's. No way that car is fun to drive and it is a Toyota not a Lexus.

Still hoping someone can shed some light on their experiance with the A4 1.8.

[PhoeniX Skye]

Wow, you seem to not like a lot of cars' styling. You should just go look up 2000-2005 luxury cars online, see which ones you actually like, then ask for opinions of them here.

[TrEvOrLiCioUs]

Older gen IS300s should be in your price range.
They come in 6speed also.

If not, how about a 2001+ 540i Sport? Also available in 6spd. I've always like these especially with the m-sport package.
They are really nice cars, and have a solid engine. But you sacrifice power for high fuel consumption.

http://images.trader.ca/autotrader/10/9/3224774.jpg.fpx?large

http://www.trader.ca/powerpage/details.aspx?vlotid=1151917&adid=5760602&noflash=Y

[PhoeniX Skye]

Here's a link to 2001 comparsions:

http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontainers/do/vdp/articleId=46528/pageNumber=1?synpartner=edmunds&pageurl=www.edmunds.com/reviews/comparison/articles/46528/article.html

They also have 2002, and probably up to this year, on their site.

[cipher]

German machinery = $$$$ to service and fix...you have to take that into consideration. You might want to look at Lexus or Acura for reliability. Audi 1.8T has issues with MAF and electrical.

[gherikill]

Get an 2-3 year old Caddy or Lincoln LS. Depreciation is your firend.

[wylie]

Trevor,I have considered the 530I (M Sport package) as you are right the 540 is a pig on gas. I have not looked at them lately though

Phoenix, pretty sure my first post clearly asked for an opinion on the A4... as that is what I am leaning towards right now.
I listed some other cars and what I thought of them to avoid recommendations on ones I was not considering. Ones that were not listed (like 540, Saab etc) I could consider based on feedback.

Ciphor, Reliability is not my number one priority. I know the German brands will cost more to maintain. Although I do not want a money pit....

[PhoeniX Skye]

Oops, I related the first inquiry of a opinion to the nearest sentence which was "to replace your car with a more upscale one". :cheesygri My bad.

[B0000rt]

purely because the CSX is considered an entry luxury level car?

CSX is more high end economy car. Most definitely not entry level luxury, the TSX takes that title in the Acura lineup.

Get a 4 yr old low mileage TL or an Avalon.
OP wanted reliability, so an older TL is definitely out of the question. I doubt the OP wants to change transmissions on a monthly basis :)

[gheart008]

Definately look at the IS300, 2002 since 2001 only came with tiptronic, and 2003+ would be out of your price ranage.

And I agree with someone who mentioned this earlier, if you're getting a used car, reliability is the #1 thing you should be looking at, and you can't top Lexus on that.

[fast_typeR]

[QUOTE=B0000rt;4362334]CSX is more high end economy car. Most definitely not entry level luxury, the TSX takes that title in the Acura lineup.
[\QUOTE]

That is true in the states,
but the Acura CSX is considered a entry level luxury car here in Canada, at least this is how Acura dealerships recognize it. Acura is Honda's luxury or upscale department, and the CSX is the entry level car.

The CSX's direct competitors include the Mercedes B-Class, Volvo S40, Saab 9-2X... all of these are entry-level cars for their respective brand.

The features of the CSX is also enough to warrant itself as a luxury car. True, the CSX is based alot on the Civic, but there are significant difference such as using the RSX base engine, avaliable sport shifters, navi system, leather, auto climate control, more premium audio system. The Lexus ES300-350 is based on the Toyota Camry, but it is in essense still Lexus's entry level sedan.

Anyways, that being said, many people have different take on what defines luxury and what not. It is also getting progressingly harder to define which car are actually luxurious with all these supposingly economy cars getting luxry features (check out the new Honda CR-V EX Navi for example).

[new_vr]

That is true in the states,
but the Acura CSX is considered a entry level luxury car here in Canada, at least this is how Acura dealerships recognize it. Acura is Honda's luxury or upscale department, and the CSX is the entry level car.

The only people who will consider the CSX a luxury car is Honda, when they want you to pay extra for a civic. The MB B-class is pretty horrible too

[ssainani]

The only people who will consider the CSX a luxury car is Honda

quoted for truth




and for the original tread starter....if you're aiming for reliability i would stay away from audi (or any other euro car) (and i'm an audi owner myself)

if i was in the market for another car today...it would probably be another audi though -- but your priority seems to be one thing...i would stick with an ES300 or something along those lines

[mlc2000]

purely because the CSX is considered an entry luxury level car?

Tell me you're kidding.
Its a civic with a tuxedo.

[wylie]

ssainani, reliability is not my #1 concern. If it was I would buy a Honda or Toyota.

In no particular order I am looking for:
- Fun to drive (with 5 speed)
- upscale - Entry level luxury
- nice looking - a bit sporty maybe? (subjective , I know)
- rear wheel drive would be nice (or Quattro as in the Audi)

Any experience with the 1.8 A4??

[Samir]

Many people where I work own Audis.

The 1.8 + Quattro is typically not a great combo according to them because of the weight of the Quattro. I have asked because I was looking at AWD drive 4 door cars myself. The consensus seems to be that a Quattro works best with the 3.0.

Additionally, many of them have told me to stay away from A4s w/ Quattros that are more than a few years old. Apparently that's when all the things start to go and repairs add up; that is why most of my colleagues lease. They want to get rid of it before all the stuff starts to go.

It seems the stereotype about German cars costing money but being such great drives is true in this case.

Based on this feedback, I disqualified the Audi from my shopping. Don't know if you'll do the same, but since no one was answering you I figured I'd chip in with my 2nd hand feedback.

[Badman]

Go with a Acura TSX:)

[Ungoverned]

You would be silly to toss Audi aside from reading a few posts. Come on do your homework. Do not rely on other people to decide what car you want to drive.

[Anessa]

Saab 9-5...depreciation is also your friend.

[TenzoR]

My votes goes to BMW 3 Series/Lexus IS300/Audi A4

they are very similar car in terms of pricing, performance, and luxury. Go test drive them and make your decision based on that.

[VivienM]

purely because the CSX is considered an entry luxury level car?

It shouldn't be.

The CSX is as credible a luxury car as the Cadillac Cimarron was. Same business model. But hey, when Honda dresses up an econobox and sticks a luxury badge on it, people think it must be good.

[mizer]

Hey guys...reality check... the Audi A4 is a VW Jetta in the same way the Acura CSX is a Honda Civic... the Saab is a bloody Cavalier and the Volvo is a Lincoln LS...

Don't fall for the hype.... even my Mercedes was built in Alabama....:o in fact I'm trading it in for a GMC... $500 oil changes are just plain silly...

With 2 kids I would be concerned about reliability... sure this isn't a mid-life crisis car?;) You need an auto so you have one hand free to stop the fighting on the back seat....:lol:

[AudiDude]

Hey guys...reality check... the Audi A4 is a VW Jetta in the same way the Acura CSX is a Honda Civic... the Saab is a bloody Cavalier and the Volvo is a Lincoln LS...

The A4 engine is longitudinal as opposed to transverse. I was looking for a Jetta or an A4. I bought the A4 and my sister bought the Jetta. I definitely made the right choice. The Audi has much more quality feel to everything. The Jetta HVAC system is a joke, the seats are not comfortable and after owning a FWD and a RWD and an AWD car at the same time, I want AWD first, RWD second, and FWD is last. The only reason why I would take a RWD over AWD is if I was 1/4 mile racing.

I would take a 3 litre engine over a 1.8T unless you want to modify the car. I have owned my 1.8T since 2001 (off 3 yr lease) and have changed the brakes twice (Brembo rotors in the front, Zimmerman rotors in the back) for $340 plus labour. I had some front stabilizer links, a rear wheel bearing, an ECT sensor replaced and oil change for $400 taxes in. A windshield washer pump gasket cost $14 . The problem with Audi is that the dealers don't repair problems in these cars, they just fix the problems to make them run. The dealer thinks the "check engine" light means "replace engine".

So many people bring their cars to the dealer and are quoted several thousand dollars to fix simple problems because they won't replace a defective small part, they want to replace the largest component that part is attached to. Most of my problems are solved from the Audiworld forums in minutes. Too many people get hosed bringing their cars to the dealer to fix their ABS and pay the $3500 charge to change the computer. The rest of us read the Audiworld FAQ and fix the connector under the drivers seat that had a wire pop out of the harness for nothing and 20 mins.

[bodzan]

So to summarize what you want is as follows:

- Cheap to buy
- Sexxy looking (to you)
- Low maintenance
- Fun to drive


YET, all the cars that you mentioned, or other have brought up you managed to rule out in one way or another. I really dont see whats wrong with the last gen TL/G35/3 series. The way your posts sound is that you want to have the latest 'technology' at a fraction of the cost, and it just doesnt work that way.

If I were you, I'd take something along a TL (dont forget the S-spec)/G35 ....
They are both good sized luxury vehicles that will give you enough room for your family and will keep your gas foot happy producing more than enough 'ponies' for you ;)

[VivienM]

the Saab is a bloody Cavalier and the Volvo is a Lincoln LS...

Uhm, the 2003+ Saab 9-3 is based on GM's Epsilon platform, which is used in the Chevy Malibu, Saturn Aura, and Pontiac G6.

So saying it's a bloody Cavalier would be an absolute lie. GM did have the stupidity of making a Cavalier-based luxury car; it was called the Cadillac Cimarron and it flopped like any such thing deserves to flop, so they discontinued it in like 1986 or 1988 or something. But hey, when Honda does it, apparently it doesn't flop...

[mizer]

Uhm, the 2003+ Saab 9-3 is based on GM's Epsilon platform, which is used in the Chevy Malibu, Saturn Aura, and Pontiac G6.

So saying it's a bloody Cavalier would be an absolute lie. ...

I was being sarcastic... but to keep it honest... "the Saab is a bloody Malibu":)

[AudiDude]

GM did have the stupidity of making a Cavalier-based luxury car; it was called the Cadillac Cimarron and it flopped like any such thing deserves to flop, so they discontinued it in like 1986 or 1988 or something.

That Cimarron looked like it was on a (bad) Pimp my ride episode. Maybe GM predicted the future too soon...:)

[Anessa]

Hey guys...reality check... the Audi A4 is a VW Jetta in the same way the Acura CSX is a Honda Civic... the Saab is a bloody Cavalier and the Volvo is a Lincoln LS...

Don't fall for the hype.... even my Mercedes was built in Alabama....:o in fact I'm trading it in for a GMC... $500 oil changes are just plain silly...

With 2 kids I would be concerned about reliability... sure this isn't a mid-life crisis car?;) You need an auto so you have one hand free to stop the fighting on the back seat....:lol:

Saab doesn't use the same platform as the Cavalier. Stop making such outrageous claims. Same owner but totally different machines. Spray back me up Saab guy!

[VivienM]

That Cimarron looked like it was on a (bad) Pimp my ride episode. Maybe GM predicted the future too soon...:)

It wouldn't be the first time...

[Anessa]

That Cimarron looked like it was on a (bad) Pimp my ride episode. Maybe GM predicted the future too soon...:)

**Cough cough Who killed the Electric car? :cheesygri

[B0000rt]

So to summarize what you want is as follows:

- Cheap to buy
- Sexxy looking (to you)
- Low maintenance
- Fun to drive


YET, all the cars that you mentioned, or other have brought up you managed to rule out in one way or another. I really dont see whats wrong with the last gen TL/G35/3 series. The way your posts sound is that you want to have the latest 'technology' at a fraction of the cost, and it just doesnt work that way.
If I were you, I'd take something along a TL (dont forget the S-spec)/G35 ....
They are both good sized luxury vehicles that will give you enough room for your family and will keep your gas foot happy producing more than enough 'ponies' for you ;)

Yo don't see what's wrong with the last Generation TL?

Transmission, transmission, transmission.

DO NOT get the last generation TL!

http://www.carsurvey.org/viewcomments_review_71264.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_67689.html

http://tl.acurazine.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-122167.html

[fast_typeR]

i am not kidding
being based on a particular model (i.e. the CSX based on the Civic) does not make a car associated with its lower end version.

If you're following that trend of logic, then the TSX can't be considered luxury either, it is essentially the Accord in Europe, or the Accord Euro version in japan, which we know are family cars. The Volvo XC30 is not a luxury car because it is built on the same platform that the Mazda3 (an econobox) is built on. The ES300-350 is sentially a Camry since it is based on its chassis and slight variation of the engine. This is only to list a few examples to keep things short.

The CSX (especially with the new TypeS version) has enough differences to distinguish itself from the current Civic. Saying the CSX is essentially slap on the Acura badge is pretty baseless. To list a few examples, take the top Civic vs the top CSX (I'm leaving out the TypeS because it is not out on the market yet)... CSX Premium Navi vs Civic EX, good enough of difference

-2.0L 155 iVTEC engine vs 1.8L 140
-HIDs vs normal headlights
-completly different exterior styling
-Navi
-Leather interior
-Completely upgraded audio system
-Sportshifters option
- Retuned stiffer suspension

Like i said, Acura is Honda's luxury division, the CSX is their entry level car. I am not the only one who shares that opinion, take a look at various credible review sites and they all list the CSX as entry-luxury, and associated with luxury
http://www.autonet.ca/Spotlight/NewModels/story.cfm?story=/Spotlight/NewModels/2005/11/14/1306594.html
http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/pw/06csx.htm

LuxuryCanada.ca is also listing the CSX as a luxury car.
http://www.luxurycarcanada.com/features/features_articles.php?fetch_feature_article=06acur a-csx-w-navi.php&pass_title=2006%20Acura%20CSX%20w/navi

Honda's own press release recognizes the CSX as gateway (entry) to their luxury brand (Acura).
http://world.honda.com/news/2005/4051114.html

[virgoan]

god you are picky...just stick with ur chrysler sedan

[fast_typeR]

here's the catch tho...while I do see the CSX as an entry-luxury car,
I am also saying it's very hard to define what car is luxury and what is not. For instance, the CRV Navi EX-L (an econo mini-SUV) for example, has enough luxury features that surpasses alot of luxury cars out there. The top Toyota Camry or Honda Accord has enough features to surpass the base ES350 or Acura TSX. As a result, the definition of what a luxury car is ambigious.

hence, my point is everyone has a different opinion of what entry-luxury should be or should not

[frogger]

Meh the CSX is no entry lux car, its still the same basic interior, and the ride, interior quality, performance and handling are still not above average compared to other $25-$34K cars (that are also not in the entry level luxury category). The TSX outhandles the Accord (and just about all other midsize FWD sedans) by a fair margin, and there really is no comparison in the ride, interior quality and handling of an ES350 vs a Camry.

And is there a difference in the side profile of a CSX and Civic?

PS My vote goes for the g35, best value IMO

[joo]

This has been beaten to death before here and in just about every other forum on the 'net.

- The German cars will cost you dearly in terms of maintenance regardless of warranty. If you go that route be sure have a budget of $5k or so annually for repairs & upkeep. Yes, you can maintain them for less but then all the toys won't work and the handling will get worse and worse. No point then, in owning one of these cars.

Saabs are nice looking but they drive like sh*t compared to Audi and BMW. DO NOT BUY AUTOMATIC transmission cars from any of these manufacturers.

- The Japanese cars are not as much fun as the German ones but are much easier on the wallet.

- The American cars are poseurs, plain and simple. Don't bother if you want fun and sporty.

I drove the 1.8T, 325i and 330i back to back to back.
It was hands down: the 330i is the car to get if you have the $.
325 came in second, and I would not consider the 1.8T - too heavy, poor handling in comparison (though better than the American & Japanese cars)

If you're on a budget perhaps you should consider the Subaru WRX or Legacy GT.

[B0000rt]

- The German cars will cost you dearly in terms of maintenance regardless of warranty.
How do you disregard warranty, when some Germans offer (or used to offer) no charge scheduled maintenance?

[Narci]

I drove the 1.8T, 325i and 330i back to back to back.
It was hands down: the 330i is the car to get if you have the $.
325 came in second, and I would not consider the 1.8T - too heavy, poor handling in comparison (though better than the American & Japanese cars)

If you're on a budget perhaps you should consider the Subaru WRX or Legacy GT.

Try comparing The A4 3.2 to the 330 instead of 1.8T.

Your comparing apples to oranges.

[ssainani]

ssainani, reliability is not my #1 concern. If it was I would buy a Honda or Toyota.

In no particular order I am looking for:
- Fun to drive (with 5 speed)
- upscale - Entry level luxury
- nice looking - a bit sporty maybe? (subjective , I know)
- rear wheel drive would be nice (or Quattro as in the Audi)

Any experience with the 1.8 A4??



i wouldn't drive anything else today (a few exceptions.....saab 9-3....the legacy gt looks great....acura cls.....the new 335 looks amazing but beyond my pricing at this point and i don't particularly like the attention the bmw badge gives)

and really if you're buying certified pre owned from the dealer reliability isn't THAT much of a concern.

i've had nothing but joy and happiness everytime i get into the audi and i cannot say the same for my previous reliable honda accord.

the 1.8t is also very easy to move up in 50hp and 50 torque with just an ecu flash....i'd recommend this and don't even consider it a real mod

[ssainani]

How do you disregard warranty, when some Germans offer (or used to offer) no charge scheduled maintenance?

in all honesty - i find the german (and american) warranties much better than the japanese ones.

with acura/honda i find they're always trying to transfer the blame to me because their cars are 'perfect' and can't break.

[Narci]

in all honesty - i find the german (and american) warranties much better than the japanese ones.

with acura/honda i find they're always trying to transfer the blame to me because their cars are 'perfect' and can't break.

Nahhh..i got the same treatment at MB. Things is with my new car, Acura, I haven't had to go back to the dealership at all for warranty work.

[wylie]

i i've had nothing but joy and happiness everytime i get into the audi and i cannot say the same for my previous reliable honda accord.

the 1.8t is also very easy to move up in 50hp and 50 torque with just an ecu flash....i'd recommend this and don't even consider it a real mod

That is exactly what I was thinking about (chip) with the 1.8.
Did you say your Audi is a 2001?

[mlc2000]

Nahhh..i got the same treatment at MB. Things is with my new car, Acura, I haven't had to go back to the dealership at all for warranty work.

Exactly, thats the value of a great car.... a warranty you'll never need.

[vtz]

6 speed 2003+ accord complies with everything you want.

Reliable, Price, Appearance (Get the lip kit), Very nice interior.

accord ftw.

[neospice]

Have you thought about maybe an early 2000s Lexus GS300? You get luxury, power, handling, looks, etc... the only downside might be that it is an automatic, but it allows you to shift into manual mode and use the lever to downshift/upshift or buttons by the steering wheel.

[ssainani]

6 speed 2003+ accord complies with everything you want.

Reliable, Price, Appearance (Get the lip kit), Very nice interior.

accord ftw.

except it lacks power and it's no fun to drive

(coming from an ex-accord owner)

[PhoeniX Skye]

I don't get the point of buying a luxury car just to say you have a luxury car... it's like buying a Diesel shirt just cuz it has a huge Diesel text logo on the front.

Buy a car whose looks you like, that has the features you want, performs to your expectations, and is within your price range.

Like someone else said, there's many newer cars that has feautures that luxuries mgiht not even have.

[TrEvOrLiCioUs]

I love when people complain about BMW repairs and maintance!
Those are people who can't appreciate them as something other than a mode of transportation, ya buy a reliable corrola. That or they dont have the knowledge/skill to be able to identify a better car.

Dont buy one then!!

More for me.

[joo]

How do you disregard warranty, when some Germans offer (or used to offer) no charge scheduled maintenance?

They won't cover wear items like wiper blades or tires.
The key words are "scheduled maintenance." Anything outside that and you're ponying up $$.

[joo]

Try comparing The A4 3.2 to the 330 instead of 1.8T.

Your comparing apples to oranges.

Remember that I compared the 325i (189 hp) to the 1.8T (170 hp).

The bimmer was way more dynamic, fun to drive and balanced.
The 19 hp was not making the difference. It was all about steering feedback, response and smoothness.

[confused]

Another vote for the G35

[Narci]

Remember that I compared the 325i (189 hp) to the 1.8T (170 hp).

The bimmer was way more dynamic, fun to drive and balanced.
The 19 hp was not making the difference. It was all about steering feedback, response and smoothness.

Should probably be comparing the 1.8T to the 320/323.

Both have thier own handling characteristics. I test drove a 1.8T Quattro and it was FUN. AWD around the warden off ramp from 401 eastbound..the car was solid when pushed. That ramp is known to be bump as hell. The A4 would hit a bump and stick back on the ground in a split second. Like someone else posted..chipping would yeild about 45-50 more HP for less then a grand.

RWD, my brother had a 5 series and now a 3 series. I had an AMG C36 with no traction control of any kind. It was fun to whip around the corners witht he tail spinning out but hated it in the winter.

[joo]

Should probably be comparing the 1.8T to the 320/323.

I test drove a 1.8T Quattro and it was FUN.


The 1.8T and the 325i had the same base price - that was my basis for comparison.

Did you drive the 325 at speed?
T&C let me take theirs out and the sales guy told me to gun it.
I think I hit 130 on the on ramp to the 407.

I had to beg the Audi salesman to let me open it up a bit.
When I did I knew why he was reluctant - it had no pick up despite being fully warmed up. A chip would have helped but why the hell would I spend another grand for an inferior car?

[Narci]

The 1.8T and the 325i had the same base price - that was my basis for comparison.

Did you drive the 325 at speed?
T&C let me take theirs out and the sales guy told me to gun it.
I think I hit 130 on the on ramp to the 407.

I had to beg the Audi salesman to let me open it up a bit.
When I did I knew why he was reluctant - it had no pick up despite being fully warmed up. A chip would have helped but why the hell would I spend another grand for an inferior car?

My brother has a 325 E46. I'm not saying it's bad..just not my cup of noodles since the interior looks like his old 1992 535i. Great car to drive.

Weird..when I went to Agincourt autohaus, the salesman asked me what car i drove. I told him C36 and he immediately said not to bother driving a stock 18T. He told me to take his personal 1.8T which had a set of eibachs andw was chipped. Took it on the 401 and he said I drive too conservatively and told me to boot it hard..especially around the warden exit.

It's personal choice. Audi offers Quattro..which is amazing and i've seen it save my best friend's butt when some old lady tried to change lanes without looking checking her blind spot. I was driving behind him. The car swervedinto the shoulder that had some slight gravel and corrected itself about 4 inches from the concrete barrier. I'm sure if it was a RWD car it would have hit.

RWD is great..very fun to drive. Pushes the car instead of pulling which is a great feeling. Downside is that with our climate, especially winter, RWD can be a pain in the butt.

[JohnB]

http://www.us-cars-pirmann.at/Cadillac%20CTS%20aussen%2005.jpg

I like the CTS...I think its pretty cool...

[sixer]

[QUOTE=fast_typeR;4362676]

The CSX is not even 1% a luxury car, its just a Honda Civic...I feel kind of sad people bragging about loaded Civics, LOL. At least step up to an Accord if you want something "nice"...

Your honestly an idiot, plain and simple, and that's 100% a fact.

The CSX, EL, etc are entry level luxury compact cars. What defines them as not luxury, because they don't have over 200hp??? If that's it, then sure, but otherwise their plenty luxurious.
The cabins are more greatly isolated from Noise then the Civics via Vibration and Harshness (NVH) insulation, heated leather seats (and each 04-05 EL & 06+CSX have the same leather high quality seats as in the MDX or TL), sunroof, available navi, power eveything, sunroof, climate control, superior audio system, higher quality gauge instrument panel (at least EL for sure), abs, side air bags in EL (pre-05 civics didn't have this) and more importantnly better materials are used every inside the vehicle, sit in a base civic then in an EL or CSX, you'll see. The exterior's are nicer looking, fogs, much better resale value, alarm, etc......

It's a luxury compact, period. Was it a new segment when the was first introduced, yes, but the EL introduced this new segment because interior luxuries such as these were previously confined to larger vehicles with larger engines that took premium.

Just don't rain down on them because you have to put premium gas in your luxury and are pissed that we can enjoy all the luxury interior finishes that the EL or CSX offer with a lower price and better fuel mileage then your high end luxury.

The EL & CSX are the best selling Acura's for a reason. And the Acura service you receive is better then what Honda's is.

[TenzoR]

The EL & CSX are the best selling Acura's for a reason. And the Acura service you receive is better then what Honda's is.

As well as warranty 4yrs 48000KM (Acura) vs. 3yrs36000KM (Honda)

[frogger]

I'm sorry but the EL and CSX offer nothing that lots of midsize sedans offer as well. I guess we can call an Altima, Accord, Camry etc entry level luxury.

Sit in an Audi A4 or BMW 3 Series. Those are examples of entry level luxury compacts.
There is no comparison between those and a CSX and EL. Just because they don't take premium gas doesn't mean the CSX/EL are magically entry level luxury cars. They're just not economy cars.

[gh05t]

Jaguar X type or S-Type in black.

[bembem]

I'm sorry but the EL and CSX offer nothing that lots of midsize sedans offer as well. I guess we can call an Altima, Accord, Camry etc entry level luxury.

Sit in an Audi A4 or BMW 3 Series. Those are examples of entry level luxury compacts.
There is no comparison between those and a CSX and EL. Just because they don't take premium gas doesn't mean the CSX/EL are magically entry level luxury cars. They're just not economy cars.

Yup, its true.

An Accord, Camry, or Maxima would be would be considered entry level luxury well before a CSX would be.

TSX > CSX.

[sixer]

Please do eloborate what they offer other than a bigger engine and a higher cost at the fuel pumps.

And always love how you say they offer nothing at all compared to the ones you mention. lol, whatever. Acura is more of a luxury brand than Nissan or Toyota. Hence why they both have Infiniti and Lexus.

[fast_typeR]

Originally Posted by fast_typeR

The CSX is not even 1% a luxury car, its just a Honda Civic...I feel kind of sad people bragging about loaded Civics, LOL. At least step up to an Accord if you want something "nice"...


hmmm wait, I swear I didn't say this haha :cheesygri

[fast_typeR]

there's no point of arguing.
luxury depends on the person's perspective of what makes luxury or not. If you feel that just because the car is based on the Civic, but is filled with many luxury features inside is not considered a luxury car, let it be.

The point of the whole's argument state is this... Acura is Honda's luxury level. The CSX is Acura's entry-level car. Hence, it is entry-level luxury, enough said.

[VivienM]

But let's be reasonable... imagine the following conversation:
A: "I just got a new entry-level luxury car"
B: "What'd you get?"
A: "An Acura CSX!"
If B knows the slightest thing about cars, he'll just laugh his a** off, wondering how his buddy A could be so lacking in taste to a) buy a CSX, and b) pretend it's a luxury car.

A couple gizmos and styling tweaks do not turn an econobox into a luxury car. GM learned this the hard way, and Honda should too... but hey, Honda is the Teflon automaker. Doesn't matter what stupid things they do, everybody just comes back for more...

[new_vr]

But let's be reasonable... imagine the following conversation:
A: "I just got a new entry-level luxury car"
B: "What'd you get?"
A: "An Acura CSX!"
If B knows the slightest thing about cars, he'll just laugh his a** off, wondering how his buddy A could be so lacking in taste to a) buy a CSX, and b) pretend it's a luxury car.

A couple gizmos and styling tweaks do not turn an econobox into a luxury car. GM learned this the hard way, and Honda should too... but hey, Honda is the Teflon automaker. Doesn't matter what stupid things they do, everybody just comes back for more...
Acura CSX being called luxury reminds me of the K-Car Luxury addition. I think it had an AM/FM WITH tape player

[sixer]

there's no point of arguing.
luxury depends on the person's perspective of what makes luxury or not. If you feel that just because the car is based on the Civic, but is filled with many luxury features inside is not considered a luxury car, let it be.

The point of the whole's argument state is this... Acura is Honda's luxury level. The CSX is Acura's entry-level car. Hence, it is entry-level luxury, enough said.

Well said.

[frogger]

Please do eloborate what they offer other than a bigger engine and a higher cost at the fuel pumps.


The easiest differentiators?

MUCH BETTER chasis... RWD, AWD.
MUCH BETTER interiors.. subjective but obvious. Look at an A4 or 325 interior then the Acura.

[Anessa]

More differentiators. The feel of real cow hide (Lexus) and seeing dead trees lining the interior is real luxury. Brushed aluminum is like pleather...poseur stuff.

[gilboman]

purely because the CSX is considered an entry luxury level car?

it is not an entry level luxury car... its a guissed up civic..entry luxury is 3-series, TL, ES etc...

[newbie7]

LOL this thread is no longer related to the thread title;
why don't we just start a new thread and call it
"Is CSX a entry-level luxury?"

Btw, Sixer, you are basing an entry-level luxury sedan
on the features that it offers. This is not a good way to
"prove" something, because the same features can be
found in many other cars.

For example, in the U.S., there isn't a CSX. You'd wonder
why - is Acura stupid enough to let go of all these
potential sales? Well, obviously not. They don't have a CSX
in the U.S. because their Civic line covers it. Their Civic
line has options and trims building up all the way to a similar
CSX in Canada (some options are tailored differently, since
there are some inherent differences between the 2 countries
and what people prefer).

Now, would you consider a fully loaded Civic in the U.S. to be
an entry-level luxury, since it has all the comparable features
to the CSX in Canada?

Btw, if your answer is yes, and you still think the CSX is an
entry-level sedan (just because it's called an Acura), you've
just been a victim of Honda's brilliant branding and marketing.

[new_vr]

More differentiators. The feel of real cow hide (Lexus) and seeing dead trees lining the interior is real luxury. Brushed aluminum is like pleather...poseur stuff.
I would take aluminum over wood anytime. What business does wood have being in a car, unless it's a Packard

[Anessa]

Luxury means you have a 6 figure income and usually those kinds of people expect to see dead trees lining their interior. I'm not saying it's the most pleasing interior but that's what some people expect when they pay 70-100K

[new_vr]

Luxury means you have a 6 figure income and usually those kinds of people expect to see dead trees lining their interior. I'm not saying it's the most pleasing interior but that's what some people expect when they pay 70-100K
And some people would expect aluminum and carbon fiber (like that is available in the audi an lexus)

[wylie]

I agree that there should be another thread to discuss the CSX since I was never considering it for myself in the first place....

There has been a lot of good feeback here, thanks.

(from most interested in to a little interested in) I am still thinking about:
A4, G35, 325I, CTS, TL.

I guess I should get out there and test drive them to see which I like the best. The trouble will be finding the G35 and CTS in manual transmissions as they are rare (according to my searches in autotrader).

[TenzoR]

I agree that there should be another thread to discuss the CSX since I was never considering it for myself in the first place....

There has been a lot of good feeback here, thanks.

(from most interested in to a little interested in) I am still thinking about:
A4, G35, 325I, CTS, TL.

I guess I should get out there and test drive them to see which I like the best. The trouble will be finding the G35 and CTS in manual transmissions as they are rare (according to my searches in autotrader).

To be honest either car will put a smile in your face. Either car will cost a lot to repair if you buy a bad sample. Go for a test drive, and buy which ever you feel the most comfortable in.

[gordholio]

there's no point of arguing.
luxury depends on the person's perspective of what makes luxury or not. If you feel that just because the car is based on the Civic, but is filled with many luxury features inside is not considered a luxury car, let it be.

The point of the whole's argument state is this... Acura is Honda's luxury level. The CSX is Acura's entry-level car. Hence, it is entry-level luxury, enough said.

My opinion is that a car is either a luxury car or it isn't.
A CSX (previously the EL) is just an economy car (Civic) with a few upgrades.

[Ungoverned]

Acura CSX is not entry level. Even if it had babies with a RR Phantom, they would simply be bastardized kids nobody would buy. :)

[bigred123]

I agree that there should be another thread to discuss the CSX since I was never considering it for myself in the first place....

There has been a lot of good feeback here, thanks.

(from most interested in to a little interested in) I am still thinking about:
A4, G35, 325I, CTS, TL.

I guess I should get out there and test drive them to see which I like the best. The trouble will be finding the G35 and CTS in manual transmissions as they are rare (according to my searches in autotrader).

If putting kids in your back seat is part of your criteria, you might want to re-order your list. The BMWs have been killed lately on dependability, especially the 3 series, so unless you have lots of money for repairs, I'd stay clear of a used BMW and even more so if you are going to keep the care more than 4 years. Same goes for the Caddy's.

To each is own. I own a '99TL and have had no issues with it - it's a great car and I'm probably going to have it a few more years. I'm dying to get rid of it, cause I want something new but there is nothing wrong with it and resale is still good, so why sell?

The Audi's are known to have higher maintenance costs and the back seats are incredibly small. Best deal (but you've already ruled it out) is the Avalon by far. Look for a good price on a Lexus ES or Acura TL. Spend the extra bucks and keep the car longer - you'll save money in the long run.

And, please, please, please....test drive the cars before you even come up with a list!!!

[B0000rt]

If putting kids in your back seat is part of your criteria, you might want to re-order your list. The BMWs have been killed lately on dependability, especially the 3 series, so unless you have lots of money for repairs, I'd stay clear of a used BMW and even more so if you are going to keep the care more than 4 years. Same goes for the Caddy's.

To each is own. I own a '99TL and have had no issues with it - it's a great car and I'm probably going to have it a few more years. I'm dying to get rid of it, cause I want something new but there is nothing wrong with it and resale is still good, so why sell?

The Audi's are known to have higher maintenance costs and the back seats are incredibly small. Best deal (but you've already ruled it out) is the Avalon by far. Look for a good price on a Lexus ES or Acura TL. Spend the extra bucks and keep the car longer - you'll save money in the long run.

And, please, please, please....test drive the cars before you even come up with a list!!!

Surprising as a TL owner, you've never ever heard of the TL transmission horror stories.

[bigred123]

Surprising as a TL owner, you've never ever heard of the TL transmission horror stories.

Of course I have. I have a '99 and the '00-'03's were more prone to the problem. In fact, one of the reasons why my '99 still has high resale value is because of the tranny problem with the '00's and up.

But....Acura stood behind the problem. Thats what you get when you buy a Honda/Acura or Toyota/Lexus.

[frankied]

They don't have a CSX
in the U.S. because their Civic line covers it. Their Civic
line has options and trims building up all the way to a similar
CSX in Canada

I disagree. In the US you have a big gap between the Civic EX sedan and the SI sedan. Very different cars in several ways, and different target market. The CSX in Canada gives us 3 models that start well ABOVE the Civic EX in content...and come with the benefits of the Acura brand (like better warranty, better dealer service experience)....choices which you do not have in the US.
In addition, for those that want an AT sedan, the base CSX model has much more content (like 2.0l engine as just one example) than your top Civic model available with AT, the Civic EX.

FrankD

[Evil Techie]

how about an used ES300?
there will be lots of room for a baby in the rear

[Ben Jr]

Why is a Honda Civic being mentioned in Luxury level at all? Kiddies, time to stop kidding yourselves, geeesh. Take your civics over to the bodykit topic.

[MrDisco]

So what was wrong with a 2003-2005 Cadillac STS (particularly with the Northstar engine)

[VivienM]

So what was wrong with a 2003-2005 Cadillac STS (particularly with the Northstar engine)

2003-2004, you mean? The 2005 is the RWD one...

[Spray]

2003 saab 9-5 Aero off lease
/thread.

[andjules]

I bought a 2003 saab 9-5 linear off lease last July - on eBay, from Atlanta! - very happy so far. I have always felt that their new sticker price is way to high and their steep depreciation curve (esp 9-5) is somewhat undeserved - perfect for buying used.

[wylie]

The deal is done.

I picked up a 2006 Cadillac CTS with 6 speed manual transmission yesterday.
I was seriously leaning towards the A4 but I came across this Cadillac for such a crazy low price that It would have been stupid to pass it up.

So far I am really enjoying the car.

[B0000rt]

The deal is done.

I picked up a 2006 Cadillac CTS with 6 speed manual transmission yesterday.
I was seriously leaning towards the A4 but I came across this Cadillac for such a crazy low price that It would have been stupid to pass it up.

So far I am really enjoying the car.

Enjoy! I hope you got the 3.6L :D How much did you get it for?

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-forum/ is a great resource for problems etc etc. (Though any problems you have will be covered under the 80,000km/4 year no charge scheduled maintenance (including brakes and filters)) :D

If you were able to get an '06 for $25k wow, just WOW.

[wylie]

It is the 2.8. I would have preferred the bigger engine but for the deal I got I could not pass it up. (Lease takeover with low buy out and monthly payments that would make an Malibu owner jealous..)

With the manual it is very peppy even with the 2.8. No complaints here.
Thanks foir the Cadillac forum link, I will check it out.

[malaco0219]

Looking for some opinions please.

I am looking to replace my 99 Chrysler sedan with something more upscale. Ideally I would like the new Infinti G35 or BMW 330I, but with second child on the way they are way out of my price range.

I am thinking in the 18K to 25K(max) price range

What do you guys think about a 2003 Audi A4 1.8 Quattro? Obviously reliability will not be up to the japanese competitors level, but that is okay.

Requirements: I want something that is upscale, 5 speed with all the creature comforts and fun to drive.

The TSX doesn't do it for me at all. The TL is nice but pricy used. Not thrilled with the BMW look unless it has the M-sport appearance package. 2003 G35 doesn't do it for me, the coupe would but 2 doors not practical with kids. C320 looks nice but I hear it is not fun to drive and most are automatics. Cadillac - not sure about the upscale feel of interiors and quality


Mercedes c320 is nice, but most of them are auto, few ppl drive them manual

if u have kids, 4 door g35 might do.

i recommend the 1.8T audi a4, but if u want distinctiveness theres too many on the streets. Audis are pretty reliable from what i heard. ultimately, reliability requires good maintenance.


I know a lot of ppl dont like Saab, but Saab 93 is pretty decent if u wanna take a look.

i recommend either A4, C class, Saab 93.

[weedb0y]

It is the 2.8. I would have preferred the bigger engine but for the deal I got I could not pass it up. (Lease takeover with low buy out and monthly payments that would make an Malibu owner jealous..)

With the manual it is very peppy even with the 2.8. No complaints here.
Thanks foir the Cadillac forum link, I will check it out.

so whats the total damage?

[ssainani]

wonderful choice

i'm looking to sell my a4 in the future and the cts in stick might be a big contender

[Supershyguy]

purely because the CSX is considered an entry luxury level car?

ah... no

[Supershyguy]

CSX is more high end economy car. Most definitely not entry level luxury, the TSX takes that title in the Acura lineup.




+1

[ToyotaLover]

Toyota Corollas are just fun to drive. I guess I have to agree that Avalons are for the oldies.

____________
Toyota 07 Corolla (http://www.who-sells-it.com/cy/toyota-motors-643/toyota-07-corolla-209.html) - Toyota 07 Corolla Catalog by Toyota Motors

[Evil Techie]

Toyota Corollas are just fun to drive. I guess I have to agree that Avalons are for the oldies.

____________
Toyota 07 Corolla (http://www.who-sells-it.com/cy/toyota-motors-643/toyota-07-corolla-209.html) - Toyota 07 Corolla Catalog by Toyota Motors

avalons are for ppl that enjoy luxury and a smooth ride
that includes me, and im not old :)

[newbie7]

I disagree. In the US you have a big gap between the Civic EX sedan and the SI sedan. Very different cars in several ways, and different target market. The CSX in Canada gives us 3 models that start well ABOVE the Civic EX in content...and come with the benefits of the Acura brand (like better warranty, better dealer service experience)....choices which you do not have in the US.
In addition, for those that want an AT sedan, the base CSX model has much more content (like 2.0l engine as just one example) than your top Civic model available with AT, the Civic EX.

FrankD

All we're saying is that it's similar to a civic (and therefore, it's not an entry level luxury). Haha yes, they are not exactly the same - there are differences if you just simply compare the spec sheets. (US Camry LE is not the same as Canadian Camry LE either, for example).

Point is, the EL is defintely, 100%, NOT an entry level luxury.

[sixer]

^ It's what each person defines as entry level. To me, the EL and CSX are entry level luxury on a compact car side. It's also the best selling Acura :razz:

[ViperZ]

Not sure if this was recommended already, but I'd go with A4 2.8/3.0 rather than 1.8T. Also, look at C230 - these guys are reasonably priced.


CSX is more high end economy car. Most definitely not entry level luxury, the TSX takes that title in the Acura lineup.


Ah, another Civic recommendation. Wonderful!

[onecoolloser]

ahh.. forget everything and buy a TTC metropass for some 100 odd dollars a month:cheesygri

[evolution921]

I didn't read the entire thread, but I think the Lexus IS300 (previous gen) is a good choice for a fun to drive car.

[Capt.]

good choice on the cts. I like the looks of them, definitely got a good look like you wanted.

For the record, avalons are great cars. They handle and ride extremely well. They've got good power but the best part is the interior room. Tons of space in these things which is great for someone my size. I can fit comfortably in the back seat easily.