PC Financial "Legal Stuff"

[dealpig]

Is anyone else concerned about the terms for online and telephone banking found in "Legal Stuff"?

The particular section I'm concerned about reads:

If losses occur by telephone or online banking
You will be responsible for all losses regardless of whether or not you authorize someone else to access your account by these means. You will not be responsible for losses which occur after you advise us that:

* an unauthorized person may be using your card;
* your card has been lost or stolen;
* due to circumstances beyond your control, someone else knows or may know your password.

http://www.banking.pcfinancial.ca/a/legal/dailyBanking.page#7

I'm not a lawyer but my interpretation of those terms means that if anyone, for any reason (including negligence by PC Financial if they are not notified in 30 days) gains access to your account online or via telephone then you're out of luck and money.

Does anyone share my reluctance to deposit a significant amount of money into their account with these terms? I know that the bank I'm with now (TD) states that I'm covered for any fraudulant use of my bank account.

Has anyone done anything to limit online banking/telephone banking to only allow for checking the balance of an account?

Am I being too paranoid? I've read a number of posts about PC Financial password changes and PC Financial disabling accounts because information was compromised.

[83_gemini]

Your money is insured by the CDIC. So it is unlikely you would actually lose your deposit. You would probably not be able to sue PC successfully.*

*not legal advice

[Octavius]

Hate to break it to you...but just about ALL banks have a clause that is similar to PC Financials.

No matter who you bank with, you have anywhere from 30-45 days to notify them of any unauthorized activity that has occurred on your account. After that time, you're stuck footing the bill.

You should be checking all your transactions weekly, if not daily, to make sure no one is unauthorizedly using your card. I keep 100.00 MAX in my checking account as a safety precaution (and it stops me from spending more money than I can afford ;) ). This way, if anyone DOES get access to my account, the most they can take out right away is $100.00.

I check my PC Financial bank account probably 2-3 times a day. If I check and that 100.00 isn't there...you're damned right I'll be calling PC Financial and changing all of my passwords and PINS.

In case PC Financial fails to help (and I doubt it...they generally take good care of their customers) the most I'm out is $100.00, which is a saving grace compared to what I COULD have been out.

In my case, the 24 hour requirement to transfer funds from savings to checkings is a saving grace :)

[monty613]

Your money is insured by the CDIC. So it is unlikely you would actually lose your deposit. You would probably not be able to sue PC successfully.*

*not legal advice

CDIC insures your deposit in the event of default/bankruptcy of the member firm.

[dealpig]

Hate to break it to you...but just about ALL banks have a clause that is similar to PC Financials.


The TD agreement states:

Your Liability for Transactions:
You are responsible for the full amount of all activity on your account completed through an Electronic Banking Service resulting from:

* The use of your Card and/or PIN by you or any person to whom you have made the Card and/or PIN available where you have not been the victim of trickery, force, intimidation or theft.
* Your failure to notify us as soon as you become aware that your PIN may have become known to someone else or your Card has been lost, stolen or misused.
* An entry error or a fraudulent or worthless deposit made through an Electronic Banking Service.

In those cases, you will be liable for losses in your accounts as defined in Section 5 of this Agreement.

Your liability may exceed your account’s credit balance or available funds if:

* The account is a credit card account or a Line of Credit account, has overdraft protection, or is linked with another account having some or all of these features; or
* The transaction is completed on the basis of an entry error or a fraudulent or worthless deposit made through an Electronic Banking Service.

We will not hold you liable for transactions completed through an Electronic Banking Service where it can be shown that you have been a victim of fraud, theft or have been coerced by trickery, force or intimidation provided you report the incident to us promptly and cooperate fully in any subsequent investigation.

http://www.tdcanadatrust.com/accounts/cardholder.jsp

If my understanding is correct that's significantly different from what is offered by PC Financial. PC Financial doesn't care if you've been the victim of fraud whereas TD states that if you are your money is safe.



No matter who you bank with, you have anywhere from 30-45 days to notify them of any unauthorized activity that has occurred on your account. After that time, you're stuck footing the bill.


My interpretation of the PC Financial "Legal Stuff" agreement is that if fraud was conducted through telephone or online banking your money is gone. Now I do assume that PC Financial would launch some kind of investigation however according to the agreement they are in no way obligated to reimburse you for any loss. Am I wrong?


You should be checking all your transactions weekly, if not daily, to make sure no one is unauthorizedly using your card. I keep 100.00 MAX in my checking account as a safety precaution (and it stops me from spending more money than I can afford ;) ). This way, if anyone DOES get access to my account, the most they can take out right away is $100.00.

I check my PC Financial bank account probably 2-3 times a day. If I check and that 100.00 isn't there...you're damned right I'll be calling PC Financial and changing all of my passwords and PINS.

In case PC Financial fails to help (and I doubt it...they generally take good care of their customers) the most I'm out is $100.00, which is a saving grace compared to what I COULD have been out.

In my case, the 24 hour requirement to transfer funds from savings to checkings is a saving grace :)

I don't think it's reasonable to be expected to check your account daily especially if it's just a savings account. Weekly is even pushing it. I keep track of all my finances in an Excel spreadsheet and know when my bills need to be paid. On average I'd say I may check my account balance twice a month.

[nolookingca]

I don't think it's reasonable to be expected to check your account daily especially if it's just a savings account. Weekly is even pushing it. I keep track of all my finances in an Excel spreadsheet and know when my bills need to be paid. On average I'd say I may check my account balance twice a month.

If it's just a savings account, then you don't need to carry the debit card with you. Problem solved.

[netriones]

If it's just a savings account, then you don't need to carry the debit card with you. Problem solved.

What if the online password is stolen by trojan or virus that is outside the control of user? Even with firewall and anti-virus, computer is not 100% protected.

[chococrazy]

CDIC insures your deposit in the event of default/bankruptcy of the member firm.

And that's it. CDIC does not insure your deposit for fraud and the like.

From their site (http://www.cdic.ca/): "CDIC insures eligible deposits at member institutions (up to $100,000 per depositor) and reimburses depositors for the amount of their insured deposits when a member institution fails. "

[PhoeniX Skye]

What if the online password is stolen by trojan or virus that is outside the control of user? Even with firewall and anti-virus, computer is not 100% protected.

Read the last condition:

* due to circumstances beyond your control, someone else knows or may know your password.

And even the other conditions nullify the need to not carry your card.


It's basically telling you not to give out your password, though I don't know how they would check.

[dealpig]

Read the last condition:

* due to circumstances beyond your control, someone else knows or may know your password.

And even the other conditions nullify the need to not carry your card.


It's basically telling you not to give out your password, though I don't know how they would check.

Actually, the clause states:

You will not be responsible for losses which occur after you advise us that:
* due to circumstances beyond your control, someone else knows or may know your password.


You are only protected after you become aware and advise them that you're account has be compromised. What netriones said is exactly what I am worried about. A trojan or virus obtaining my password without my knowledge.

[PhoeniX Skye]

Dammnit!

[nolookingca]

What if the online password is stolen by trojan or virus that is outside the control of user? Even with firewall and anti-virus, computer is not 100% protected.

Umm...how about you be a bit more careful of your surfing habits? Or if you are really paranoid, boot into a live CD before you do any banking.