NFL in toronto?

[hotwings]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061129/sp_nm/media_summit_nfl_dc

...Within the next decade, one of those cities -- most likely Mexico City or Toronto -- could be host to a National Football League franchise...

Looks like the argos might get some competition.

[littlevince]

repeat after me
there will be no nfl franchise in toronto

[Spazmogen]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20061129.wsptnaylor29/front/Front/frontBN/rbc-front

I think it will happen in the 2008 season in Toronto.

Interesting how Rogers has a $1 Billion offer on the table to buy the Saints, and another possibility to buy the Bills. The Bills have an old stadium and old owner. They would be the value purchase. The Saints would be a better contender...and Rogers already has a Dome to play in.

The Argo's would have to find a new home to play games.

Interesting how even the new NFL Commissioner wants to expand. Toronto & Mexico City are 2 of his 5 picks. How many of those cities have a Dome and the offer already on the table...

[skanji]

repeat after me
there will be no nfl franchise in toronto

100% completely agree...

[hightechfan]

If the big if there is a team it is at the very best 10-15 years away.The argos would not remain in toronto they would move to another city.I still can not see this happening any time soon.

[dell]

Wouldn't the Rogers Center be too small in terms of capacity? Wasn't there a minimum seating requirement for NFL stadiums?

[hightechfan]

Rogers stadium hold 50,000 that is big enough.

[jonno]

the smallest stadium in the NFL is roughly 70,000.. The previous smallest stadium was the RCA dome in Indi (55000-60000).. The colts told the state of Indi they would move unless they were given a bigger stadium and they got their wish..

If an NFL team came to Canada, they would need to build another stadium since the Rogers centre is only 50,000 and would be the smallest stadium in the NFL

[skanji]

For those of you who think that toronto even *could* get a team, can you call into the fan 590 when bob mcowan is on, and let us know what he thinks??

;)

[Colts]

For those of you who think that toronto even *could* get a team, can you call into the fan 590 when bob mcowan is on, and let us know what he thinks??

;)
:lol:
he will give u a lecture on how we wont get a team and why its impossible cause of broadcasting contracts or something

[skanji]

:lol:
he will give u a lecture on how we wont get a team and why its impossible cause of broadcasting contracts or something

yeppers - his point is that there is no reason for the NFL to come to Canada. The only thing that matters to the NFL is the lucrative TV contract by American broadcasters. It makes no difference to the US Broadcasters if a Canadian team is in the NFL. But add a team in the US, and the NFL gets a ton more money for adding another market.

The Canadian TV contracts aren't even a fraction of what one more market will bring to the NFL from US broadcasters....

Thus, there is absolutely no chance that an NFL team will come to Canada.

[Irb]

Unpossible

[saugaboy]

Of course its possible to bring the NFL to canada. Either get approval to get an expansion, build stadium in the mean time. 1% chance of happening

or buy an existing franchise, keep it there for a few yrs , for PR purposes and then bring it over, build stadium in meantime. i'd say 10% chance.

Ted Rogers offered 1 billion, he got turned down but will all the owners turn down 1 billion? there is a chance.

Also the Bills' old owner, ( in the star) to pass the team to his children he has to pay an inheritance tax, not sure how much but prob close to 100 million. So he can either pay millions to keep it in the family or sell it for 1 billion. And also if he decided to keep the team and pay the tax , theres no guarantee that his kids wont sell it.

Toronto has the market for it, 8 home games will sell out guaranteed in a city of 5 plus million.

Remember LA lost 2 teams and they are prob the best sport city in the USA. It can happen.

[hightechfan]

Of course its possible to bring the NFL to canada. Either get approval to get an expansion, build stadium in the mean time. 1% chance of happening

or buy an existing franchise, keep it there for a few yrs , for PR purposes and then bring it over, build stadium in meantime. i'd say 10% chance.

Ted Rogers offered 1 billion, he got turned down but will all the owners turn down 1 billion? there is a chance.

Also the Bills' old owner, ( in the star) to pass the team to his children he has to pay an inheritance tax, not sure how much but prob close to 100 million. So he can either pay millions to keep it in the family or sell it for 1 billion. And also if he decided to keep the team and pay the tax , theres no guarantee that his kids wont sell it.

Toronto has the market for it, 8 home games will sell out guaranteed in a city of 5 plus million.

Remember LA lost 2 teams and they are prob the best sport city in the USA. It can happen.


That the big question does toronto have the market.With 5 million it is not guranteed to sell out.If toronto does not sell out the international bowl and it this point sit does not look like they will.As the bowl game is a massive test sell out and maybe open some eyes get less then 30,000 case closed.I would love to see toronto geta team but i just don't think it will happen.

[saugaboy]

Well take into considertion that Torontonians goto Bills games about 15% of bills tickets are held by canadians. So you can also say that its possibel that the reverse could happen. Die hard Bills fans would prob follow the team to Toronto, lets say 5%. Then you add the 15% that now dont have to go to Buffalo and you have 15 000 pples. (Say 70 000 seats = 100%)

now to sell a 30 000 would just take 15 000 more sales.

also this artical

http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/BUF/9358169

bills are 1 of 2 lowest revenue franchises, 1 Billion dollars....

http://www.realfootball365.com/nfl/articles/2006/04/ralph-wilson-bills100406.html

longer read, but shows that the Bills are not able to compete revenue wise with other cities

[kevin01]

the smallest stadium in the NFL is roughly 70,000.. The previous smallest stadium was the RCA dome in Indi (55000-60000).. The colts told the state of Indi they would move unless they were given a bigger stadium and they got their wish..

If an NFL team came to Canada, they would need to build another stadium since the Rogers centre is only 50,000 and would be the smallest stadium in the NFL

The RCA dome is still the smallest stadium. Colts arent moving till 2008. And David Miller said he would be up for building a new stadium, when people thought the colts mightve moved to Toronto. I was hoping for months that the deal with Indiana and the Colts would fall through, because Toronto was number one on the relocation list.

Anyways, I agree with McCowan. Broadcasting contracts make NFL teams their money, and if rogers buys a team, then Sportsnet would not make them money. It would be between CBC, TSN, THE SCORE, CTV. The Score will not pay that kind of money, CBC might after loosing HNIC, CTV maybe, and TSN i dont think so with their CFL contract.

[416azn]

Canada needs a NFL team that would be crazy

[hightechfan]

Canada needs a NFL team that would be crazy

No canada does not need a nfl team.What canada need is a cfl that sells out every game and is more liek a pro league then the cfl is now.

[play_b3yond]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061129/sp_nm/media_summit_nfl_dc



Looks like the argos might get some competition.

if we do get nfl team, RIP argos.

[kevin01]

No canada does not need a nfl team.What canada need is a cfl that sells out every game and is more liek a pro league then the cfl is now.

lol and 26 000 fans for a playoff game is not good. Its not even okay, its pathetic. Not alot of people watch the CFL in toronto, and I cant say that im not dying for a team in Toronto, but i dont think itll work. Not enough people follow it, and the prices are going to be to high for tickets. Unless the bills move here, then we get people from the US.

And for broadcasting issues, if CBC, CTV, TSN, THE SCORE, dont make good offers, then i bet you either we dont get a team, or all the games will be on PPV, like LEAFSTV. But it would be ~$10 a month.

[gordholio]

if we do get nfl team, RIP argos.

Not necessarily.
If Toronto does get an NFL franchise, I'd like to see all the money needed to build a stadium come from business, rather than tax dollars.
I don't want to be forking out my tax dollars for some stadium for fat, 360 lb offensive linemen millionaires.
It would be weird having another football team not named the Argonauts though.

[canabiz]

The CFL has a long, long way to go to make itself marketable and popular again.

It has been marginalized, reduced to second fiddle, so to speak and that's sad.

That being said, I welcome an NFL franchise in Toronto, whenever it is. We have the Raptors, the Jays, it's only natural to round out the Big 3. Heck even MLS has a franchise in the Big Smoke now

[gordholio]

The CFL has a long, long way to go to make itself marketable and popular again.

It has been marginalized, reduced to second fiddle, so to speak and that's sad.

That being said, I welcome an NFL franchise in Toronto, whenever it is. We have the Raptors, the Jays, it's only natural to round out the Big 3. Heck even MLS has a franchise in the Big Smoke now

Actually, the big 4 - we have the Maple Leafs too.

[aw3s0me]

Actually, the big 4 - we have the Maple Leafs too.

its weird, a lot of people like myself probably takes these toronto teams for granted. toronto is lucky to have all these franchises, and lucky to be even mentioned as a contender for an nfl team (no matter how slim those chances are). i wonder if ill miss em if they ever relocate, i only really watch the leafs/jays.

[Larry Laffer]

Not happening

[CSK'sMom]

The CFL has a long, long way to go to make itself marketable and popular again.

It has been marginalized, reduced to second fiddle, so to speak and that's sad.

That being said, I welcome an NFL franchise in Toronto, whenever it is. We have the Raptors, the Jays, it's only natural to round out the Big 3. Heck even MLS has a franchise in the Big Smoke now

I'd echo the comments on the CFL. Unfortunately, I wouldn't even class them as a pro league anylonger. Most of the players have to have other jobs to support their families which means they cannot dedicate their time to being the best players they can be. In this house, we'd love to see an NFL franchise in Toronto. Heck, we'd be happy to be able to buy NCAA stuff in Canada. ;)

[jr!]

There was a very interesting discussion on this with McCowan on Prime Time Sports on the FAN590 on Thursday (11/30).
The guest (forgot his name) said this could happen this way:
- The NFL expands.
- The NFL adds games on Thursday nights & Saturday nights & airs them on the NFL network. This doesn't disrupt the Sunday schedule & since the NFL network is available in Canada, ad revenue can be sold on that network.
The big issue is FOX, ABC, ESPN, etc. all the US networks that carry the NFL would not make any money from an NFL team in Canada as they wouldn't be able to sell ads on either side of the border, not in Canada as they don't sell ads in Canada & not in the US as nobody cares about a game with a Canadian team. Personally, I'm not an NFL fan, & don't think it would work & we do not need another stadium paid for by tax payers dollars (we already have 3 in Toronto- Rogers Centre, BMO Field & Ricoh)

[canabiz]

There was a very interesting discussion on this with McCowan on Prime Time Sports on the FAN590 on Thursday (11/30).
The guest (forgot his name) said this could happen this way:
- The NFL expands.
- The NFL adds games on Thursday nights & Saturday nights & airs them on the NFL network. This doesn't disrupt the Sunday schedule & since the NFL network is available in Canada, ad revenue can be sold on that network.
The big issue is FOX, ABC, ESPN, etc. all the US networks that carry the NFL would not make any money from an NFL team in Canada as they wouldn't be able to sell ads on either side of the border, not in Canada as they don't sell ads in Canada & not in the US as nobody cares about a game with a Canadian team. Personally, I'm not an NFL fan, & don't think it would work & we do not need another stadium paid for by tax payers dollars (we already have 3 in Toronto- Rogers Centre, BMO Field & Ricoh)

jr You made some valid points and I won't get into the taxpayer-funded stadium issue because that involves a lot of politics as well but I have to disagree with you when you say an NFL Franchise will not work in Toronto

This topic has been discussed many times here on RFD (You can do a search for previous posts) and I don't want to re-hash the same old stuff but i strongly believe that an NFL franchise would thrive in the Big Smoke.

There are more NFL fans here in Canada than you guys would tend to think. I believe the Buffalo Bills home games consist of a large percentage of Canadian fans who travel weeks in and weeks out down there. Part of the NFL's popularity is because of its gambling angle and as a sports bettor myself, I can tell you that the NFL is huge for Canadian sports investors. Believe me, just go to any gas station/Loblaws on any given Sunday and look at the lineups of people buying ProLine NFL.

There is just nothing better than going to an NFL game, tailgating, partying, and the whole nine yards. The fall and winter weather is perfect for football, be it indoors or outdoors and believe it or not, in the most recent publication of Sports Illustrated, they are saying that football will soon take over baseball as America's pastime. Of course that may or maynot apply to us Canadians but it is something worth noting for.

Speaking from a personal experience, I grew up in Vietnam and I have been a soccer fan all my life but when I immigrated to Canada, i fell in love with football, the physical and mental battles, the strategies and tactics and everything in between. Of course, the gambling aspect also plays no small part!

When September comes around, I can rest assure you that every Sunday is special. I can tell you right now that if Toronto is ever awarded a franchise, I will make regular trips from Ottawa to go down and see the team play, something I can't say for the Raps, the Jays or even the Leafs!

Last but not least, if the Raps or even the lacross franchise can survive here, i don't see why an NFL franchise can't.

Cheers.

[bembol]

Not a fan of CFL, so yeah I would like to see this. I can probably watch my favorite (down this year)...Steelers!

[thug-life]

Not a fan of CFL
same here, i hope the nfl comes to toronto but i know it wont happen.if they do im gonna go watch them play my team BRONCOS.

[Spray]

Haha AMEN my brother :) Jay cutler is gonna wreak havoc on seattle tonight, he's from Christmas Village, in Santa Claus Indiana! What a place to be born in.

Anyways you people seem to forget were in a densely urban city with lots of corporations and small businesses. How many season ticket holders for the Leafs do you think are owned by businesses? A Lot. I guarantee if an NFL franchise came here, you'll have at LEAST 50,000 season tickets sold here immediately.

same here, i hope the nfl comes to toronto but i know it wont happen.if they do im gonna go watch them play my team BRONCOS.

[hightechfan]

Haha AMEN my brother :) Jay cutler is gonna wreak havoc on seattle tonight, he's from Christmas Village, in Santa Claus Indiana! What a place to be born in.

Anyways you people seem to forget were in a densely urban city with lots of corporations and small businesses. How many season ticket holders for the Leafs do you think are owned by businesses? A Lot. I guarantee if an NFL franchise came here, you'll have at LEAST 50,000 season tickets sold here immediately.

Not a chance there is not that many interested in the nfl in toronto.Lets see we heard when toronto got a nba team ya we will set out every night not so.Same goes for the jays etc.Toronto people are all bark no bite.There are alot of good sports fans in toronto but ther eis no way they would sell 50,000 season tickets asap.Even with the new Mls team when to was granted the team people said ya the season tickets would sell out asap while there good not nearly as many have been sold as first thought.

[afong56]

That the big question does toronto have the market.With 5 million it is not guranteed to sell out.


if you build it, they will come. . .

5 mil is not guaranteed to sell out? toronto is larger than all but a handful of markets in the u.s. population is not the problem. selling out would not be a problem--toronto loves to have marquee things, and even if the new stadium seated 80k, that's only 640k tickets, which will have no problem selling out, given the corporations that love to comp their clients in the gta. realistically, after corporate sales and season ticket holders, there'll be less than 100k tickets for walk up sales.

the biggest issue is, as others have identified, the lucretive television contracts. every nfl team starts out from a virtual profit situation, thanks to fat t.v. revenues. that's because u.s. broadcasters can and do generate huge revenues from american advertisers. the t-dot just doesn't do it for u.s. networks.

that's why there'll never be a nfl team in canada.

[aw3s0me]

Not a chance there is not that many interested in the nfl in toronto.Lets see we heard when toronto got a nba team ya we will set out every night not so.Same goes for the jays etc.Toronto people are all bark no bite.There are alot of good sports fans in toronto but ther eis no way they would sell 50,000 season tickets asap.Even with the new Mls team when to was granted the team people said ya the season tickets would sell out asap while there good not nearly as many have been sold as first thought.

ok who said raptors and jays would sellout every night? toronto is doing pretty well, do you think every sports team in every major city sells out every single night every single year? hell no.

That the big question does toronto have the market.With 5 million it is not guranteed to sell out

i think you don't realize toronto is one of thee biggest markets in north america. why do you think we have teams in the cfl, mlb, nhl, nba, and now mls?

[KennyX]

I'd love it if the NFL came here (only problem would be to cheer for... the Bills or the Toronto team?) :)

I dont want to start some sort of major argument or anything, -but why do some of the people here prefer the CFL (or at least want it to thrive here instead of the NFL)? Do you guys just like the cfl game better? Or is just because it's a Canadian thing?

IMO, so long as the NFL exists, the CFL will never be very big or popular. Football is football regardless of where it's played, -I dont care about the different rules, or the different playing styles, etc... That leaves talent. Something the CFL will never, ever come close to in terms of the NFL.

So unless you like the CFL solely because it's a Canadian thing, why oppose the NFL?

[seshwan]

Yeah, Toronto will be the next city to get a team when Los Angeles doesn't have a team.

Not to mention the CFL would go under and the Rogers Centre would have by far the lowest capacity in the NFL.

And the Bills are whining they can't survive in such a small market so the NFL will open up a team 100 miles away.

Right...

[Chandler]

man the colts wouldve been perfect, they're already blue and white

[aw3s0me]

Yeah, Toronto will be the next city to get a team when Los Angeles doesn't have a team.

Not to mention the CFL would go under and the Rogers Centre would have by far the lowest capacity in the NFL.

And the Bills are whining they can't survive in such a small market so the NFL will open up a team 100 miles away.

Right...

probably the most stupid statement ive read in a while.

[ElChico]

I'd love it if the NFL came here (only problem would be to cheer for... the Bills or the Toronto team?) :)

I dont want to start some sort of major argument or anything, -but why do some of the people here prefer the CFL (or at least want it to thrive here instead of the NFL)? Do you guys just like the cfl game better? Or is just because it's a Canadian thing?

I like the CFL, I think the game is better, more exciting. I find the NFL slow and boring, 3 yards in a cloud of dust over and over again. In CFL 3 downs and the wider field tend to open the game up more. Plus no fair catch gives a better chance of an exciting run back.



IMO, so long as the NFL exists, the CFL will never be very big or popular.

The CFL is more popular in Canada.


Football is football regardless of where it's played, -I dont care about the different rules, or the different playing styles, etc... That leaves talent. Something the CFL will never, ever come close to in terms of the NFL.


http://www.uso.org/Illinois/images/Chicago%20Rush%20Arena%20Football.jpg


http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42130000/jpg/_42130790_brazilafp416.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y140/UglyandHasty/IMG_0912.jpg

http://www.biologie.de/w/images/thumb/d/d3/300px-American_Football.jpg

They're all different and require different skills. A player that is good in the NFL will not necesserally be good in the CFL. (there are many examples of this) while the level of players in the CFL may actuall be higher in some cases. Quite a few CFL quarterbacks have proven to be probowl players in the NFL.

Outside of this, the CFL relies more on speed while the NFL relies more on size, espessially for the linemen which reflect the running game of the NFL vs more pass coverage for the CFL. If you put a NFL lineman in a CFL game he'll be slow and probably be exhausted by the second half. Put a CFL lineman in the NFL and he'll get pushed around like a ragdoll.


So unless you like the CFL solely because it's a Canadian thing, why oppose the NFL?

So which one is better is subjective. I prefer CFL. And besides the only time that I know of that a CFL team played an NFL team in an exhibition the CFL team won! (although it was under CFL rules, and Buffalo sucked that year)

[Montague]

So unless you like the CFL solely because it's a Canadian thing, why oppose the NFL?
Because a NFL team in Toronto would spell the death of the CFL.

No CFL team in Toronto (no way it could survive competing against a NFL team in the city) - no CFL.

jr You made some valid points and I won't get into the taxpayer-funded stadium issue because that involves a lot of politics as well but I have to disagree with you when you say an NFL Franchise will not work in Toronto

But you have to consider that the stadium would be a taxpayer funded one - and that is a virtually impossible tough sell (ie corporate welfare at its worst - giving "free money" to an owner [in terms of not having to put up any of his own money to build a stadium] that will be "raking in the dough" anyhow seems ridiculous).

This is why a NFL team in Toronto is unlikely (though not impossible) - there are enough cities in the US that would not have a problem having the taxpayers fund a new stadium (there are some exceptions like some resistance in San Diego).

[canabiz]

[QUOTE=ElChico;4265576]I like the CFL, I think the game is better, more exciting. I find the NFL slow and boring, 3 yards in a cloud of dust over and over again. In CFL 3 downs and the wider field tend to open the game up more. Plus no fair catch gives a better chance of an exciting run back.



The CFL is more popular in Canada.

Wow I don't know what to say man.

You put an NFL franchise in Toronto and see how many people will go see that and compare that with the Argos (don't forget the Argos has been around for much longer) and you will see for yourself

I think that is a fair assesment. Same deal with B.C. if somebody wants to put a franchise in Vancouver.

I can bet you my last dollar that the NFL games will out-draw the CFL games by 2 to 1 and that should really tell you which games is more popular.

Don't get me wrong, I am Canadian so I should be supporting the CFL but I can't find a good reason to support it other than well it is a Canadian game. It's hard man, when you don't know most of the players' names or even the coaches too but I try to follow and keep track of what's going on from a sports bettors' points of view. Can't say the same thing from a casual football fan!

[Irb]

Sorry to disappoint you but the CFL is more popular than the NFL in Canada.

Ask any pizza delivery boy on which day do they make more money. Super Bowl or Grey Cup.

I'm a fan of both leagues. The CFL is definately the more entertaining game. But like you said you don't know the players or the coaches. The NFL puts on a boring game more often than not.

[rc51]

I like the CFL, I think the game is better, more exciting. I find the NFL slow and boring, 3 yards in a cloud of dust over and over again. In CFL 3 downs and the wider field tend to open the game up more. Plus no fair catch gives a better chance of an exciting run back.


You obviously haven't seen or watched RB's like LT, Larry Johnson, Willie Parker, Frank Gore play this year...they run alot more than 3 yards per carry. Heck LT's average is around the 5 yard mark this year I think.

Also the CFL has to get rid of the 'no yards' call or at least change it...it's one of the dumbest rules going.

[canabiz]

Sorry to disappoint you but the CFL is more popular than the NFL in Canada.

Ask any pizza delivery boy on which day do they make more money. Super Bowl or Grey Cup.

I'm a fan of both leagues. The CFL is definately the more entertaining game. But like you said you don't know the players or the coaches. The NFL puts on a boring game more often than not.

Your pizza delivery example is debatable. What you conveniently forget is how many Canadians actually travel to see the Super Bowl in person and/or to Vegas to place a bet or two. Just ask Rick Tocchet or Janice Gretzky ;-)

But I won't get into all the he-said, she-said stuff, obviously there will always be fans of both leagues. What needs to be emphasized time and time again is the NFL will flourish in Canada in general and in Toronto in particular, just like all of the other pro franchises

[ElChico]

You obviously haven't seen or watched RB's like LT, Larry Johnson, Willie Parker, Frank Gore play this year...they run alot more than 3 yards per carry. Heck LT's average is around the 5 yard mark this year I think.

Also the CFL has to get rid of the 'no yards' call or at least change it...it's one of the dumbest rules going.

Lawrence Taylor came out of retirement? LT is the exception to the rule I guess. And I must say I don't know who the others are, but I've only watched a few quarters of NFL this year.

[gilboman]

if you build it, they will come. . .

5 mil is not guaranteed to sell out? toronto is larger than all but a handful of markets in the u.s. population is not the problem. selling out would not be a problem--toronto loves to have marquee things, and even if the new stadium seated 80k, that's only 640k tickets, which will have no problem selling out, given the corporations that love to comp their clients in the gta. realistically, after corporate sales and season ticket holders, there'll be less than 100k tickets for walk up sales.

the biggest issue is, as others have identified, the lucretive television contracts. every nfl team starts out from a virtual profit situation, thanks to fat t.v. revenues. that's because u.s. broadcasters can and do generate huge revenues from american advertisers. the t-dot just doesn't do it for u.s. networks.

that's why there'll never be a nfl team in canada.


but you also got to take in mind the demographics of toronto..the city has a huge proportion of minorities/ethnicities that dont care about football at all...soccer, NBA they can identify with..but football to them is on par in interest as Nascar. the city doesnt have the market for NFL... not just based on basic population numbers..but the demographics

[canabiz]

but you also got to take in mind the demographics of toronto..the city has a huge proportion of minorities/ethnicities that dont care about football at all...soccer, NBA they can identify with..but football to them is on par in interest as Nascar. the city doesnt have the market for NFL... not just based on basic population numbers..but the demographics

The easiest way to get the minorities to get interested in football is very simple: Allow sports betting in the provincial casinos or the race track.

Boy oh boy, when the Asians get a wind of this, watch ou!

As i stated in an earlier post, I grew up watching and playing soccer in Vietnam but as soon as I see potential in the NFL in gambling revenues and entertainment, there's simply no turning back.

Peace.

[KennyX]

I like the CFL, I think the game is better, more exciting. I find the NFL slow and boring, 3 yards in a cloud of dust over and over again. In CFL 3 downs and the wider field tend to open the game up more. Plus no fair catch gives a better chance of an exciting run back.


Nah... To me the CFL is just a bunch of guys throwing the ball up for grabs in double and triple coverage, in a huge field with endzones the size of parking lots. I dont find the NFL slow or boring... it's much more exciting IMO. The guys are just as fast, but the only difference is that they're much bigger and stronger than the CFL counterparts.

Plus I love the strategy of football that you see in the NFL. I know it might be cliche, but NFL and NCAA football is a thing of beauty.
You've got the raw brutality for guys who like that, and the chess like strategy for the guys who like that instead (pulls, screens, defensive schemes, etc... ). Other than little guys in the CFL running pretty fast, Im not sure you'd really see anything more.


The CFL is more popular in Canada.


Probably only true in area's/provinces which arent close to the NFL. I doubt the CFL is more popular in Toronto (or possibly Vancouver).


They're all different and require different skills. A player that is good in the NFL will not necesserally be good in the CFL. (there are many examples of this) while the level of players in the CFL may actuall be higher in some cases. Quite a few CFL quarterbacks have proven to be probowl players in the NFL.

Outside of this, the CFL relies more on speed while the NFL relies more on size, espessially for the linemen which reflect the running game of the NFL vs more pass coverage for the CFL. If you put a NFL lineman in a CFL game he'll be slow and probably be exhausted by the second half. Put a CFL lineman in the NFL and he'll get pushed around like a ragdoll.


Come on now... I'd be willing to bet that the majority of NFL players would be very successful in the CFL, whereas this wouldnt be the case for CFL players in the NFL. Giving examples of Garcia, Flutie, and Moon (and who else)... are they really good examples? I mean, they did come from American programs.

As for lineman, Im not too sure. The NFL have plenty of OL and DL who can run in the 4.8 40 mark.


So which one is better is subjective. I prefer CFL. And besides the only time that I know of that a CFL team played an NFL team in an exhibition the CFL team won! (although it was under CFL rules, and Buffalo sucked that year)

Let me ask you this... where do the best CFL players come from? Canadian university or US programs?

[KennyX]

Because a NFL team in Toronto would spell the death of the CFL.

No CFL team in Toronto (no way it could survive competing against a NFL team in the city) - no CFL.


If you were American, would you only buy American cars just to support the domestic car industry? (even if there were superior alternatives, -japanese, european, etc...?)

That's why Im saying if the NFL comes here, -good riddance to the CFL and the Argos. If Toronto really is a major sports city, we need/deserve the best, and not some second rate league, where the majority of there 'stars' are guys who arent good enough to play with the big boys south of the border.

[ElChico]

Nah... To me the CFL is just a bunch of guys throwing the ball up for grabs in double and triple coverage, in a huge field with endzones the size of parking lots. I dont find the NFL slow or boring... it's much more exciting IMO. The guys are just as fast, but the only difference is that they're much bigger and stronger than the CFL counterparts.

Different strokes for different folks I guess.


Plus I love the strategy of football that you see in the NFL. I know it might be cliche, but NFL and NCAA football is a thing of beauty.
You've got the raw brutality for guys who like that, and the chess like strategy for the guys who like that instead (pulls, screens, defensive schemes, etc... ). Other than little guys in the CFL running pretty fast, Im not sure you'd really see anything more.

The CFL has way more stategy. Receiver sets in motion, half and full backs regularly running sweeps and screen plays. Plus one of my favorite plays, the punting a missed field goal out of the end zone to get a win on the final play of the game.


Probably only true in area's/provinces which arent close to the NFL. I doubt the CFL is more popular in Toronto (or possibly Vancouver).

It's true, even in Toronto and Vancouver the TV ratings for out of market CFL game are higher then NFL games.


Come on now... I'd be willing to bet that the majority of NFL players would be very successful in the CFL, whereas this wouldnt be the case for CFL players in the NFL. Giving examples of Garcia, Flutie, and Moon (and who else)... are they really good examples? I mean, they did come from American programs.

Ricky Williams was less then spectacular, but we're talking CFL vs NFL, not CIS vs NCAA. Since NCAA offers atheletic scholarships they are not only going to have all of the American talent, but most of the Canadian talent too.


As for lineman, Im not too sure. The NFL have plenty of OL and DL who can run in the 4.8 40 mark.

But how fast would they be going after they do it for the 4th or 5th time?



Let me ask you this... where do the best CFL players come from? Canadian university or US programs?

It's a mix, there are a few stars that came through CIS including Mike O'Shea, Jason Clermont, and of course the great Russ Jackson. But most quality Canadians go south for scholarships. Again this little to do with CFL vs NFL as they both prefer to draft from the NCAA.

[afong56]

but you also got to take in mind the demographics of toronto..the city has a huge proportion of minorities/ethnicities that dont care about football at all...soccer, NBA they can identify with..but football to them is on par in interest as Nascar. the city doesnt have the market for NFL... not just based on basic population numbers..but the demographics


no doubt there's a large minority of immigrants in toronto--second highest percentage for a city in north america, in fact.

guess who's number one? miami, home of the dolphins.

gta population? approx. 5.3 million.
miami area population? approx. 5.4 million.

if the nfl doesn't fly in t.o., it'll be for reasons other than market ability to support the team, imho.

[antime1]

sorry but the nfl really wont do well in toronto, or in canada. and its not about demographics really it all comes down to history. what sport is the biggest sport in all american high schools/colleges? football. ppl play football from young ages and those who played are usually those who watch and love it the most. in canada, we play hockey, and a lil soccer and rugby but there are few schools with football teams. ppl may pay attention for a bit, but they will lose interest simply becuz its not the game they played when they were younger. football just wont fly. the argos barely scrape by, now look at the cost of fielding a decent nfl team. sorry folks but it wont work. maybe they might brake even the first season, but long-term, they wont last. sorry. maybe if u can convince canadian high schools to play football and not rugby and then try a team in 20 years it might work.

[KennyX]

Different strokes for different folks I guess.
The CFL has way more stategy. Receiver sets in motion, half and full backs regularly running sweeps and screen plays. Plus one of my favorite plays, the punting a missed field goal out of the end zone to get a win on the final play of the game.

Yeah... that's some strategy. That's all in the NFL (accept missed field goals though) and even high school football. Plus, you have different formations on both the offense and defense (46 bear, 3-4, 4-3, zone blitzes, cover 2's). You'll have linemen pulling and running up the field to pancake someone in the 2nd level.
And why is it that the CFL mostly only run via shotgun?


It's true, even in Toronto and Vancouver the TV ratings for out of market CFL game are higher then NFL games.

Possibly, but I have a feeling that would change drastically if the NFL came here.


Ricky Williams was less then spectacular, but we're talking CFL vs NFL, not CIS vs NCAA. Since NCAA offers atheletic scholarships they are not only going to have all of the American talent, but most of the Canadian talent too.


Ricky Williams isnt even a shell of what he once was. The only reason he's playing right now is because he would need to repay the Dolphins money... otherwise he be out of football. You've to to realize, he hasnt been in football shape since 2003... He's only good enough to play in the CFL right now.
And it's true the NCAA might have most of the Canadian talent, but I wouldnt know, because the major Div IA schools dont have many great Candian atheletes (and trust me... I would never compare the NCAA to the CIS).


But how fast would they be going after they do it for the 4th or 5th time?


Plenty fast. IMO NFL players are just better atheletes. They train all offseason, and have better facilities than any CFL player has.


It's a mix, there are a few stars that came through CIS including Mike O'Shea, Jason Clermont, and of course the great Russ Jackson. But most quality Canadians go south for scholarships. Again this little to do with CFL vs NFL as they both prefer to draft from the NCAA.

I dont see many 'quality' Canadians who went south of the border in the NFL. And even if the CFL prefers to draft from the NCAA, isnt there a set percentage that have to be from Canadian schools? If so, then why are the majority of the best players still American?
And this has alot to do with the NFL vs CFL, because the players mostly come from the NCAA.

[gilboman]

no doubt there's a large minority of immigrants in toronto--second highest percentage for a city in north america, in fact.

guess who's number one? miami, home of the dolphins.

gta population? approx. 5.3 million.
miami area population? approx. 5.4 million.

if the nfl doesn't fly in t.o., it'll be for reasons other than market ability to support the team, imho.

but the thing is...miami's demographics are different..hispanics/cubans can identify with football and baseball since they have a similar sport culture to america. not chinese, asians, and europeans, middle easterners etc.... that dominates the GTA.

again, you cant just look at population numbers ..but the origin of those numbers. a bunch of cuban/hispanic immigrants/migrants have very very different sports taste than chinese, asians etc...

[KennyX]

but the thing is...miami's demographics are different..hispanics/cubans can identify with football and baseball since they have a similar sport culture to america. not chinese, asians, and europeans, middle easterners etc.... that dominates the GTA.

again, you cant just look at population numbers ..but the origin of those numbers. a bunch of cuban/hispanic immigrants/migrants have very very different sports taste than chinese, asians etc...

Not to sound harsh, but once the older generation is phased out (baby-boomers, etc...), I think the newer/younger generation (which is heavily influenced by American culture) will/can adapt to football.

[gilboman]

Not to sound harsh, but once the older generation is phased out (baby-boomers, etc...), I think the newer/younger generation (which is heavily influenced by American culture) will/can adapt to football.

maybe, but i dont see the canadian born generation of the gta minorities taking a liking to football but still only in tune with basketball, soccer etc... but like you say, even if it does happen..that will take a long time as in a few generations down which is a moot point in this discussion since it wont be for atleast another 20 yrs before this may even happen.

[CSK'sMom]

sorry but the nfl really wont do well in toronto, or in canada. and its not about demographics really it all comes down to history. what sport is the biggest sport in all american high schools/colleges? football. ppl play football from young ages and those who played are usually those who watch and love it the most. in canada, we play hockey, and a lil soccer and rugby but there are few schools with football teams. ppl may pay attention for a bit, but they will lose interest simply becuz its not the game they played when they were younger. football just wont fly. the argos barely scrape by, now look at the cost of fielding a decent nfl team. sorry folks but it wont work. maybe they might brake even the first season, but long-term, they wont last. sorry. maybe if u can convince canadian high schools to play football and not rugby and then try a team in 20 years it might work.

All I can say is Wow! You are out of touch! Highschool and minor football is alive and well in Canada. Just take a look at www.allcanadagridiron.com . Some of the bowl games are happening now. Registrations are happening already (or will be soon) for OVL. Then there is Team Canada that will be playing in the tournament before the Superbowl....

[ElChico]

Yeah... that's some strategy. That's all in the NFL (accept missed field goals though) and even high school football. Plus, you have different formations on both the offense and defense (46 bear, 3-4, 4-3, zone blitzes, cover 2's). You'll have linemen pulling and running up the field to pancake someone in the 2nd level.
And why is it that the CFL mostly only run via shotgun?

CFL runs more reciever sets due to forward motion and an extra guy on the field. You see a lot of shotgun because on 2nd down the play is more likely to be a pass, where the No Fun League has an extra down to run the ball for three yards.



Possibly, but I have a feeling that would change drastically if the NFL came here.


I seriously doubt that. Torontonians are notorious homers. More Canadians prefer CFL to NFL and expansion won't change that anymore then the CFL expansion into the US changed their preferences.


Ricky Williams isnt even a shell of what he once was. The only reason he's playing right now is because he would need to repay the Dolphins money... otherwise he be out of football. You've to to realize, he hasnt been in football shape since 2003... He's only good enough to play in the CFL right now.

In 2005 he had 4.4 yds/carry and ~750 yds in only 12 games, not horrible by any means.

In 2006 he had 4.8 yds/carry and 526 yds in 11 games, pretty much the same.



And it's true the NCAA might have most of the Canadian talent, but I wouldnt know, because the major Div IA schools dont have many great Candian atheletes (and trust me... I would never compare the NCAA to the CIS).

Jean-Philippe Darche went to McGill and in captain of the seahawks.


Plenty fast. IMO NFL players are just better atheletes. They train all offseason, and have better facilities than any CFL player has.

No dispute here, NFLers train more.


I dont see many 'quality' Canadians who went south of the border in the NFL. And even if the CFL prefers to draft from the NCAA, isnt there a set percentage that have to be from Canadian schools? If so, then why are the majority of the best players still American?
And this has alot to do with the NFL vs CFL, because the players mostly come from the NCAA.

There is a requirement that half the team has to be Canadian, but the quarterbacks can be from anywhere. Plus Canadians out number Canadians many times over so it makes sense that a larger percentage of quality players come from the NCAA. CFL has always been cutting edge in player development, first to use black players, first to use black quarterbacks etc.

[afong56]

but the thing is...miami's demographics are different..hispanics/cubans can identify with football and baseball since they have a similar sport culture to america. not chinese, asians, and europeans, middle easterners etc.... that dominates the GTA.

again, you cant just look at population numbers ..but the origin of those numbers. a bunch of cuban/hispanic immigrants/migrants have very very different sports taste than chinese, asians etc...

i really don't see how cuban/hispanics are any more culturally inured to football (american) than asian cultures. i can see the baseball tangent, but not football.

football, or footie as the rest of the world knows, is popular to all other cultures--asian or hispanic.

[HammerTime]

Canadian television ratings:


GREY CUP 2004
3.188 mil (Total Canada [English])
0.630 mil (Toronto)

GREY CUP 2005
2.885 mil (Total Canada [English])
0.341 mil (Toronto)

GREY CUP 2006
2.803 mil (Total Canada [English])
0.407 mil (Toronto)


SUPER BOWL 2004
3.560 mil (Total Canada [English])
0.846 mil (Toronto)

SUPER BOWL 2005
3.130 mil (Total Canada [English])
0.758 mil (Toronto)

SUPER BOWL 2006
3.960 mil (Total Canada [English])
0.766 mil (Toronto)


Source: BBM Canada

[gilboman]

i really don't see how cuban/hispanics are any more culturally inured to football (american) than asian cultures. i can see the baseball tangent, but not football.

football, or footie as the rest of the world knows, is popular to all other cultures--asian or hispanic.

its all geographic... cubans/hispanics get american channels, american tv and watch american sports because they dont have others...whereas in asia, its all about soccer, racing, cricket, and basketball and in japan baseball.

i have never ever seen any american football related media stuff or merchandise travelling throughout asia or any knowledge of it whatsoever... (SE asia and middle east)

[gordholio]

I think there would be enough fan support in the Southern Ontario region for an NFL football team.
One thing I don't like about the CFL is the immense end zones.
Man, how hard is it to get open and receive a catch? Not that hard.
Also, the goalpost is located right on the goal line, which is dumb IMHO.

[HammerTime]

The end zones are actually not as deep as they used to be back in the day. They are 20 yards, but it used to be 25 yards!

[gordholio]

The end zones are actually not as deep as they used to be back in the day. They are 20 yards, but it used to be 25 yards!

When I watch an NFL game, I notice how little room there is in the end zone. It makes it much more of a challenge to score a passing touchdown.
When I watch a CFL game, I notice how players are open by a country mile in the end zone and catch the ball for a touchdown.
In this category, I like the NFL much more.

[KennyX]

CFL runs more reciever sets due to forward motion and an extra guy on the field. You see a lot of shotgun because on 2nd down the play is more likely to be a pass, where the No Fun League has an extra down to run the ball for three yards.

Yeah... cause all they do is run in the NFL. I guess guys like Manning, Palmer, Brees, Brady, etc... should just give up and go to the CFL then. And even if there are running plays, it really does get boring when Tomlinson, Vick, Westbrook, Parker, etc... do their thing.

But your absolutely right... watching highschool plays done in the CFL is muuuch better!


I seriously doubt that. Torontonians are notorious homers. More Canadians prefer CFL to NFL and expansion won't change that anymore then the CFL expansion into the US changed their preferences.

Again... Im going to have to disagree. If Toronto gets a team, -they'll be homers alright... They'll be homers to the team with the better talent. CFL failed in the US because there's no way you can market a sport that has the same talent as DivIII college teams (maybe Div IIA at best) when you so obviously have a much superior product nearby (which is why Im assuming most CFL fans dont want to see the NFL come to Canada)



In 2005 he had 4.4 yds/carry and ~750 yds in only 12 games, not horrible by any means.

In 2006 he had 4.8 yds/carry and 526 yds in 11 games, pretty much the same.

Yep... I guess playing back up to the #2 overall pick (Ronnie Brown) didnt have anything to do with it in 2005. I said it before, and I'll say it again. Ricky Williams isnt anywhere near the guy he was during the 2003 season (and prior years). His only motivation right now is not having to repay bonus money back to the Dolphins. He's not in that great of shape (definately not starter material for any team in the NFL).


Jean-Philippe Darche went to McGill and in captain of the seahawks.


Who? You mean a long-snapper is the Captain of the Seahawks? The Seattle Seahawks? A team with Matt Hassleback, Shaun Alexander, Ken Hamlin, Walter Jones, Tatupu, etc.. and a guy (Darche) who isnt good enough to even start on the OL is captain of the Seahawks?



There is a requirement that half the team has to be Canadian, but the quarterbacks can be from anywhere. Plus Canadians out number Canadians many times over so it makes sense that a larger percentage of quality players come from the NCAA. CFL has always been cutting edge in player development, first to use black players, first to use black quarterbacks etc.

Quality over quantity. I dont care if there's a 100 American's to 1 Canadian. If that Canadian is good, he'll be drafted.
Look at hockey for example. Take a look at some of the Top Americans taken in the draft recently and upcoming. And I can guarantee that there are far more Canadians playing hockey than Americans.

[canabiz]

Yeah... cause all they do is run in the NFL. I guess guys like Manning, Palmer, Brees, Brady, etc... should just give up and go to the CFL then. And even if there are running plays, it really does get boring when Tomlinson, Vick, Westbrook, Parker, etc... do their thing.

But your absolutely right... watching highschool plays done in the CFL is muuuch better!



Again... Im going to have to disagree. If Toronto gets a team, -they'll be homers alright... They'll be homers to the team with the better talent. CFL failed in the US because there's no way you can market a sport that has the same talent as DivIII college teams (maybe Div IIA at best) when you so obviously have a much superior product nearby (which is why Im assuming most CFL fans dont want to see the NFL come to Canada)




Yep... I guess playing back up to the #2 overall pick (Ronnie Brown) didnt have anything to do with it in 2005. I said it before, and I'll say it again. Ricky Williams isnt anywhere near the guy he was during the 2003 season (and prior years). His only motivation right now is not having to repay bonus money back to the Dolphins. He's not in that great of shape (definately not starter material for any team in the NFL).



Who? You mean a long-snapper is the Captain of the Seahawks? The Seattle Seahawks? A team with Matt Hassleback, Shaun Alexander, Ken Hamlin, Walter Jones, Tatupu, etc.. and a guy (Darche) who isnt good enough to even start on the OL is captain of the Seahawks?




Quality over quantity. I dont care if there's a 100 American's to 1 Canadian. If that Canadian is good, he'll be drafted.
Look at hockey for example. Take a look at some of the Top Americans taken in the draft recently and upcoming. And I can guarantee that there are far more Canadians playing hockey than Americans.


Yes KennyX, I was just about to say.

Sorry El Chico but if you think J.P Darche is a *star* or a *great athlete* then well I am sorry but that is simply too outrageous. I don't think anyone really knows who J.P. is save for the hardcore avid NFL Fans and even if they do know who he is, I doubt they would think he's anything of significant value.

[ElChico]

Yes KennyX, I was just about to say.

Sorry El Chico but if you think J.P Darche is a *star* or a *great athlete* then well I am sorry but that is simply too outrageous. I don't think anyone really knows who J.P. is save for the hardcore avid NFL Fans and even if they do know who he is, I doubt they would think he's anything of significant value.

I had to look up his name on NFL Canada. There was a top story on him. Regardless, this isn't Canadian Footballers vs American Footballers... it's CFL vs NFL...is it even relevent to the disussion ? Are we saying that all the talented Canadian Footballers are playing in the CFL and the NFL talent pool is watered down? (WRT Canadians?)

[canabiz]

I had to look up his name on NFL Canada. There was a top story on him. Regardless, this isn't Canadian Footballers vs American Footballers... it's CFL vs NFL...is it even relevent to the disussion ? Are we saying that all the talented Canadian Footballers are playing in the CFL and the NFL talent pool is watered down? (WRT Canadians?)

No this topic is about the NFL in Toronto. It is not about CFL vs. NFL and you were the one who brought up the name J.P. Darche first, as if he's some hotshot Canadian who is lighting things up in the NFL. I just want to set the record straight.

Btw, my opinions about the NFL in Toronto have been stated clearly on more than a few occasions so that's that.

[ElChico]

Btw, my opinions about the NFL in Toronto have been stated clearly on more than a few occasions so that's that.

Ditto, kiddo.

[canabiz]

Ditto, kiddo.


We will agree to disagree on this topic then, son

[canabiz]

What i would like to see the NFL do is to schedule a pre-season or even a regular season in Toronto next year or whenever just to gauge the interest level of the fans here up north.

If let's say 40,000 - 50,000 people show up at the Rogers Centre for example for a game between 2 teams that they don't really care for then just imagine if Toronto is awarded a franchise!

I believe the NFL will have a game next year in China. Why go all the way there ? The Chinese is all about soccer. Come up here and show us what you got!

[ElChico]

What i would like to see the NFL do is to schedule a pre-season or even a regular season in Toronto next year or whenever just to gauge the interest level of the fans here up north.

If let's say 40,000 - 50,000 people show up at the Rogers Centre for example for a game between 2 teams that they don't really care for then just imagine if Toronto is awarded a franchise!

I believe the NFL will have a game next year in China. Why go all the way there ? The Chinese is all about soccer. Come up here and show us what you got!

Cleveland and New England played at Skydome before a less then packed house of 33,000.

[kevin01]

Cleveland and New England played at Skydome before a less then packed house of 33,000.

That was before. Im sure theres more people interested in it now.

[ElChico]

That was before. Im sure theres more people interested in it now.

Why would more people be interested now?

[kevin01]

Why would more people be interested now?

because its actually being spoken of in a serious manner. Before all we heard were short comments in newspapers by some executive, but now were actually seeing someone trying to bid on a franchise. Its more of a reality now, not just a dream.

Big news such as an NFL team in Toronto, would REALLY have people talking. Everyone who likes football would go to a game, and knowing rogers, they wouldnt really price tickets too high. Im sure Rogers Center would be upgraded again, because I dont think the city's ready to build another stadium.

[canabiz]

Cleveland and New England played at Skydome before a less then packed house of 33,000.

You can't be serious about giving out this example which happened 13 years ago can you ? Jesus, that was the last time the Jays made the playoff to boot!

That pre-season game was 13 years ago in 1993. Things have changed drastically since. The NFL has grown tremendously, the fans' perspective have changed as well, helped in no part by the decline in popularity of the CFL I might add.

It's just different man. It's like comparing a Jays game at the time (when they always seem to be in contention) to one last year or the year before when they couldn't really get anything together.

I, for one, am looking forward to attending an NFL game in Canada, whenever and wherever it is.

[ElChico]

You can't be serious about giving out this example which happened 13 years ago can you ? Jesus, that was the last time the Jays made the playoff to boot!

That pre-season game was 13 years ago in 1993. Things have changed drastically since. The NFL has grown tremendously, the fans' perspective have changed as well, helped in no part by the decline in popularity of the CFL I might add.

It's just different man. It's like comparing a Jays game at the time (when they always seem to be in contention) to one last year or the year before when they couldn't really get anything together.

I, for one, am looking forward to attending an NFL game in Canada, whenever and wherever it is.



The CFL has grown in popularity.

And you could be waiting a long time for NFL in Toronto, I don't see it happening in the next 13 years either.

[EZman]

I don't really know how it is in Toronto, but in Mississauga, I strongly believe NFL is much more popular. The Jays, and Raptors will not be relocated, generally speaking, in recent years they are growing in popularity.

And if NFL does mve to Canada it will most likely succeed, however building a stadium will be tough, Most likely it will have to be built Outside of the GTA, unless they put one of the Toronto Islands to good use and build something like the Qwest field in Seattle, of course a bridge would be needed too.

[ElChico]

I don't really know how it is in Toronto, but in Mississauga, I strongly believe NFL is much more popular. The Jays, and Raptors will not be relocated, generally speaking, in recent years they are growing in popularity.

And if NFL does mve to Canada it will most likely succeed, however building a stadium will be tough, Most likely it will have to be built Outside of the GTA, unless they put one of the Toronto Islands to good use and build something like the Qwest field in Seattle, of course a bridge would be needed too.

Old thread....

Outside of the GTA? That's crazay, :lol: where do you think it would go? Kitchener-Waterloo to join the Penguins? I think they could find a spot in the GTA if they wanted.

[thelefteyeguy]

I don't really know how it is in Toronto, but in Mississauga, I strongly believe NFL is much more popular. The Jays, and Raptors will not be relocated, generally speaking, in recent years they are growing in popularity.

And if NFL does mve to Canada it will most likely succeed, however building a stadium will be tough, Most likely it will have to be built Outside of the GTA, unless they put one of the Toronto Islands to good use and build something like the Qwest field in Seattle, of course a bridge would be needed too.


Mississauga, I strongly believe NFL is much more popular.

:lol: ...let me guess you don't have any stats or scientific data right :lol:


i can picture it now...corporate boxes being sold out by all the corporate offices located in Mississauga.

[Irb]

The NFL has absolutely zero interest in having a team in Toronto. All of the owners have a say in the league and adding Toronto into the mix does absolutely nothing for their television deal.

[YnD]

As Bobcat would say... there will NEVER be an NFL team in Toronto. There aint gonna be and their not coming.

[Slippery_Pete]

The NFL has absolutely zero interest in having a team in Toronto. All of the owners have a say in the league and adding Toronto into the mix does absolutely nothing for their television deal.

Exactly....if there's one thing the NFL is about, its those damn sweet TV deals which they have, with not one, but all 3 networks. Which other sports league in North America can claim that? What will they gain by going to Toronto, a few extra mil from a deal with Global? Which US network would want to carry a game between say, Kansas City and Toronto. Do you recall how many Raptors games have been on national US TV? It ain't going to happen, especially while LA goes without even a single team. For those in Toronto who want to see live NFL action go to Buffalo or Detroit, because thats as close as it will come in the forseeable future. If you just want to see some live football, go to an Argos game....its alot more fun than you think.

I guarentee I will be in a cold, cold grave before the NFL comes to Toronto, and I'm still a young man.

[EZman]

I agree with all of you guys, but even little chance is better than nothing.

[Jacob Ortiz]

Exactly....if there's one thing the NFL is about, its those damn sweet TV deals which they have, with not one, but all 3 networks. Which other sports league in North America can claim that? What will they gain by going to Toronto, a few extra mil from a deal with Global? Which US network would want to carry a game between say, Kansas City and Toronto. Do you recall how many Raptors games have been on national US TV? It ain't going to happen, especially while LA goes without even a single team. For those in Toronto who want to see live NFL action go to Buffalo or Detroit, because thats as close as it will come in the forseeable future. If you just want to see some live football, go to an Argos game....its alot more fun than you think.

I guarentee I will be in a cold, cold grave before the NFL comes to Toronto, and I'm still a young man.
I totally agree. The games are quite entertaining and I have noticed their tailgate parties have grown.

[kevin01]

I totally agree. The games are quite entertaining and I have noticed their tailgate parties have grown.

TORONTO WILL NEVER GET AN NFL TEAM... EVEN IF THEY DO MLSE WILL PROBABLY OWN IT AND TURN IT INTO THE MONEY MAKING, NO PLAYOFF LEAFS

[jbird]

If we had an NFL Team, even if we suck, we can go to the games just to see the teams that we actually do like.

[kevin01]

If we had an NFL Team, even if we suck, we can go to the games just to see the teams that we actually do like.

yeah about that. i think that the canadians who love nfl football have become die hard fans of another team. if the nfl came to toronto, i wouldnt stop going for the eagles. im too big of a fan now, and theyre my team now. a toronto team would not change anything for me, and i think anything for alot of people. so games like Toronto Vs houston.... i would estimate that 15000 people would go watch it. the nfl wont work in toronto

[Izzoshady]

yeah about that. i think that the canadians who love nfl football have become die hard fans of another team. if the nfl came to toronto, i wouldnt stop going for the eagles. im too big of a fan now, and theyre my team now. a toronto team would not change anything for me, and i think anything for alot of people. so games like Toronto Vs houston.... i would estimate that 15000 people would go watch it. the nfl wont work in toronto

Thats true..I'm a diehard Eagles fan myself.

[pegger06]

Toronto is a Football town. Look at the history, of the town itself, it was a football town much before it was a "hockey town" which it really isn't because the Leafs are the only team people support there in Hockey. Also the NFL gets huge ratings in Southern Ontario. Especially the playoff games they push HNIC to the limit.

[canabiz]

yeah about that. i think that the canadians who love nfl football have become die hard fans of another team. if the nfl came to toronto, i wouldnt stop going for the eagles. im too big of a fan now, and theyre my team now. a toronto team would not change anything for me, and i think anything for alot of people. so games like Toronto Vs houston.... i would estimate that 15000 people would go watch it. the nfl wont work in toronto

I disagree with you regarding a possible lack of attendance if there is an NFL team in Toronto, kevin01

What people fail to realize is each NFL team only play once a week, some week they don't even play at all (bye week). Unlike baseball or hockey or basketball when there are at least a few games on any given week.

That's what makes the NFL more special than the other sports. Look at the Raptors, they are actually winning but they can't put asses in the seats (from Marty York report that I read in the papers)

[pegger06]

I disagree with you regarding a possible lack of attendance if there is an NFL team in Toronto, kevin01

What people fail to realize is each NFL team only play once a week, some week they don't even play at all (bye week). Unlike baseball or hockey or basketball when there are at least a few games on any given week.

That's what makes the NFL more special than the other sports. Look at the Raptors, they are actually winning but they can't put asses in the seats (from Marty York report that I read in the papers)

The Raptors are averaging 17,000 and some change, so they are putting asses in the seats. Just because they don't sell out every game anymore doesn't mean their attendance is attrocious. The two games with bad attendance were against to really bad teams in the midweek. Last night they had 18,000+ during a bad storm I hear. They just started winning now, as far as I'm concerned. Also you shouldn't read Marty York, the guy is not a credible writer for any sport.

[Jacob Ortiz]

I disagree with you regarding a possible lack of attendance if there is an NFL team in Toronto, kevin01

What people fail to realize is each NFL team only play once a week, some week they don't even play at all (bye week). Unlike baseball or hockey or basketball when there are at least a few games on any given week.

That's what makes the NFL more special than the other sports. Look at the Raptors, they are actually winning but they can't put asses in the seats (from Marty York report that I read in the papers)Playing so little games makes the NFL more special than the other sports? Is that something to be bragging about? I'm a fan of the NFL but one thing that has always got me was how they play so little games. 16 games, plus playoffs then you are the "world champions".

Please if you are going to consider yourself the world champions you are going to have to play a little more games than that.

[canabiz]

Playing so little games makes the NFL more special than the other sports? Is that something to be bragging about? I'm a fan of the NFL but one thing that has always got me was how they play so little games. 16 games, plus playoffs then you are the "world champions".

Please if you are going to consider yourself the world champions you are going to have to play a little more games than that.

No you missed my points entirely Jacob.

Kevin01 was saying how he foresees a lack of attendance at NFL games. I told him i don't think that is the case because NFL teams only play once a week so it's not gonna like they will make people less excited, the way baseball and basketball teams sometimes do, playing so many games in any given week...

Would you say you can *look forward* to going to a Raps game on Thursday when you have been there on Monday ? I don't think so buddy...or a Jays game on Friday when you just went to see them on Tuesday ? I beg to differ.

and yes playing so few games do deserve special mention, because you know the players will give their best shot weeks in and weeks out, not like some b-ball players who don't even bother showing up (re: Vinsanity!)...they have to play 3 games in 4 nights on the road at times, who can blame them if they don't give 100% efforts ?

[kevin01]

No you missed my points entirely Jacob.

Kevin01 was saying how he foresees a lack of attendance at NFL games. I told him i don't think that is the case because NFL teams only play once a week so it's not gonna like they will make people less excited, the way baseball and basketball teams sometimes do, playing so many games in any given week...

Would you say you can *look forward* to going to a Raps game on Thursday when you have been there on Monday ? I don't think so buddy...or a Jays game on Friday when you just went to see them on Tuesday ? I beg to differ.

and yes playing so few games do deserve special mention, because you know the players will give their best shot weeks in and weeks out, not like some b-ball players who don't even bother showing up (re: Vinsanity!)...they have to play 3 games in 4 nights on the road at times, who can blame them if they don't give 100% efforts ?

i was reffereing to the team that toronto would be playing on that day... houston... how many houston texan fans are there in toronto? The only way people would come is if they do what they do with the jays, give aways for $1 tickets.

and football once a week is great. I hate this 82 game schedule in the nhl and nba, and 162 games in the mlb. its like your mad because of one loss one day, and your team loses again the next day. in the mlb it can be twice a day. plus football players put their lives more at risk injury wise. playing football can cause many injuries to many players, and imagine they had 2 games a week. That would be 32 games for each team, and about 100 injured players.

[KennyX]

Cleveland and New England played at Skydome before a less then packed house of 33,000.

And that's a bad thing? These were 2 crappy teams with losing records, with little to no stars... and absolutely no affiliation with the city of Toronto or Canada.
(not to mention the NFL has increased its popularity by leaps and bounds since then).

Now lets see. Suppose the Ottawa Renegades and Saskatchewan Roughriders came to Toronto to play a meaningless exhibition game at the Rogers center... how many do you think would attend?
Or how about if the Florida Panthers and the LA Kings came to play a meaningless exhibition game at the ACC?
OR, how about if the KC Royals and the TB Devil Rays came to the Rogers Center to play a meaningless exhibition game?

Let's take it a step further... The Toronto Argos, who are obviously affiliated with Toronto, had attendance of about only 30k... which is still less than those numbers you provided (based on the early 1990's) and for teams who are not affiliated with Toronto.

I'd like to take it another step further... Why are people in Toronto and surrounding areas fans of the Jays, Raptors and Leafs? (rather than fans of other teams?). I'd be willing to bet it's because they associate themselves with being part of that franchise...I mean, how many people in the area would really be fans of the NBA or MLB if we didnt have a team? Yet the Toronto Argos only have marginal attendance, and there are still a plethora of NFL fans in the area. It's because of this, -in my opinion, the NFL would thrive in Toronto more so than the CFL.

[canabiz]

i was reffereing to the team that toronto would be playing on that day... houston... how many houston texan fans are there in toronto? The only way people would come is if they do what they do with the jays, give aways for $1 tickets.

and football once a week is great. I hate this 82 game schedule in the nhl and nba, and 162 games in the mlb. its like your mad because of one loss one day, and your team loses again the next day. in the mlb it can be twice a day. plus football players put their lives more at risk injury wise. playing football can cause many injuries to many players, and imagine they had 2 games a week. That would be 32 games for each team, and about 100 injured players.


Kevin, I think you are seriously under-estimating the passion and the desire of Canadian NFL Fans here man. I can say for certain that the Buffalo Bills would not have sold out their games if it weren't for a good chunks of Canadian fans coming down weeks in and weeks out when the NFL season is in.

Add to that the people outside the Big Smoke...Windsor, Burlington, Hamilton, the K-W area so on and so forth. I personally am from Ottawa and I can guarantee you that if Toronto ever got an NFL franchise, I would make a concerted effort to attend at least 1 game each season. I can't say the same thing about the Raps since I have no real interest in b-ball. I have been to 1 Jays game in my life and not sure when I would come back, just a tad boring for me.

On top of that, we have the folks from other cities outside Ontario, namely Montreal, Winnipeg, Regina etc. Are you going to sit here and tell me that nobody from those cities would make an attempt to check out an NFL game in Canada ? especially when there are only 16 games for a year (not counting the playoff ?)

Yes I got your point about Houston being a crappy team and frankly nobody in his right mind would pay to see them play but explain to me how people in Houston continue to show up for the games weeks in and weeks out ? Even when they play other crappy teams like Oakland or Cleveland or Detroit ? To me it's not a *game* per se, it's an *experience* in itself, the tailgating, the after parties etc, all of the above, that's what makes it all worthwhile.

Peace.

[canabiz]

If anyone has doubts about the NFL Fans in Canada in general and to a certain extent, Ontario, please take the time to read this article

http://www.cliftonhill.com/falls_blog/category/buffalo-bills/

In short, it is estimated that about 7,000 to 8,000 Canadian NFL fans regulary travel to the Buffalo Bills home game from southern Ontario. Now I am not going to bury my head in the sand and say that these guys will stay in Toronto to watch the Toronto NFL team play but this is just to show you guys that there is no shortage of NFL fans in Ontario and Canada.

I have said it before and I will say it again: This is a free country, let the NFL come into our house and establish itself, let it go ahead and compete with other sports franchises. There is only so much entertainment dollar going around...if people don't like what they see, ultimately it will be up to them to decide if they want to show support...may the best team win, that's all.

[kevin01]

If anyone has doubts about the NFL Fans in Canada in general and to a certain extent, Ontario, please take the time to read this article

http://www.cliftonhill.com/falls_blog/category/buffalo-bills/

In short, it is estimated that about 7,000 to 8,000 Canadian NFL fans regulary travel to the Buffalo Bills home game from southern Ontario. Now I am not going to bury my head in the sand and say that these guys will stay in Toronto to watch the Toronto NFL team play but this is just to show you guys that there is no shortage of NFL fans in Ontario and Canada.

I have said it before and I will say it again: This is a free country, let the NFL come into our house and establish itself, let it go ahead and compete with other sports franchises. There is only so much entertainment dollar going around...if people don't like what they see, ultimately it will be up to them to decide if they want to show support...may the best team win, that's all.

i know alot of people would come to games, but you cannot say that the stadium will be over half full when a team like houston would play.

a lot of real canadian fans have chosen buffalo as the team to root for since it is close and buffalo can compare to their own city. lol do you think that goodell(sp?) is going to expand into toronto so soon? i think tagliabue wouldve done it sooner or later, but i think goodell would go to vegas before toronto. believe me im all for a toronto nfl team, but i dont see it happening in the next few years. low tv contracts, the need for stadium expansion, player salary taxes would play a big role. But i hope im wrong and toronto gets a team asap. i wish they would

[EZman]

We all can agree that that IF NFL does come to Torotno it will be at least a few years. But the anticipation is a little exciting, we will just have to see when Los Angeles gets a team and what's gonna happen from there on.

[gordholio]

I don't believe you can say never to a Canadian franchise, but I think it will be at least 10 more years until it may happen.