The Toronto Blue Jays/MLB Thread

[spike-spiegel]

2007 Opening Day (25-Man Roster)

# STARTERS
Roy Halladay, RH
# A.J. Burnett, RH
# Gustavo Chacin, LH
# Tomo Ohka, RH
# Josh Towers, RH

BULLPEN
# B.J. Ryan, LH
# Jason Frasor, RH
# Scott Downs, LH
# Shaun Marcum, RH
# Casey Janssen, RH
# Victor Zambrano, RH
# Jeremy Accardo, RH

# INFIELDERS
# Lyle Overbay, 1B
# Aaron Hill, 2B
# Royce Clayton, SS
# Troy Glaus, 3B
# Frank Thomas, DH
# John McDonald, 2B/SS
# Jason Smith, INF

OUTFIELDERS
# Vernon Wells, CF
# Alex Rios, RF
# Reed Johnson, LF
# Matt Stairs, RF/LF

CATCHERS
# Gregg Zaun
# Jason Phillips

[spike-spiegel]

Initial reaction: bwhaaaaaaaaaaahhh?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!


So I don't know what to make of Big Hurt coming to Toronto. I trust ESPN is reliable.

This is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy out of left field. I never imagined Big Hurt leaving Oakland. When JP said "bat", I thought a decent power hitter and never thought Thomas. No reports, rumours, anything.

How much JP throwing at him? Beane offered $9.5M/2 years so I assume JP blew that out of the water to convince him. I'm assuming $12M/2 which sounds reasonable... hopefully.

Looks like we found ourselves a new DH. Though he can't run, he can crush balls still.

Right now, I'm indifferent to this signing depending on how much.

[canabiz]

I am rather shocked to hear Thomas' name as well. I hope he can give us some pops.

I personally don't think we should re-sign Ted Lilly. True, he had a career year last year but it also happens to be his contract year. He has done nothing else in his previous 3, 4 seasons with the Jays to impress me. Consistently inconsistent, that's how I rate Ted.

The Jays need a SS badly. Whoever think Johnnie Mac can do the job adequately for 162 games need to stop dreaming.

[gordholio]

NAPLES, Fla. -- The Toronto Blue Jays are closing in on a deal with free agent designated hitter Frank Thomas, two sources at the general managers' meetings told ESPN.com.

Thomas, 38, batted .270 with 39 homers and 114 RBI last season for the Oakland Athletics. The Texas Rangers had also made a serious push to sign him.

It's believed that Thomas will sign a two-year deal with the Blue Jays. He played for a base salary of $500,000 this season, plus $2.6 million in incentives, after coming back from an ankle injury.

__________________________________

Great if they can sign him!

[pegger06]

The BIG HURTTTTTTTTTTTTT!

I still have his video game for the Playstation.

[botai]

actually the interest of Thomas by the Jays has been there for a while...
I heard quite some bit ago on the Fan590 that he was one of the key players the Jays are gonna be luring

[mingcourt]

i always thought his $500,000/yr contract last year + incentives if he played was an amazing deal for the athletics.

if the guy does produce, he produces big time... so... you have nothing to lose hwen you're giving him $500,000... hell, eric hinske is getting something like $4-5m.

--

back to this deal, AMAZING IF THE JAYS GET HIM. big props to j.p. getting me all excited right after the season is over...

--

apparantly its 2 yrs for $23mil.... holy cow...

[Hanniganite]

Interesting...if that's true and Thomas manages to come close to his numbers from last year, you can tick off "bat" from the list.

I think the Jays need a 2B rather than SS since Hill can play SS. Scott Carson threw out the names Kennedy and Marcus Giles (!)
:http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/columnist.jsp?content=20061114_183045_4452

As for relief pitching, I'd try to re-sign Speier; dunno how many arms we need but he's one. Catcher, I'd re-sign Zaun as the starter. He's reliable enough and is a switch hitter, plus he's a leader and he's been with the club/pitchers a few years now. Re-signing Wells makes sense unless he's asking for waaaaaay too much or there's a trade available that's too good to pass on. As for SP, according to some baseball executives, Lilly might be the best available:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=crasnick_jerry&id=2662662

Gonna be interesting to see how the Jays look next year...they're just a few pieces/avoiding injuries away from the playoffs. Let's move to the NL where teams with fewer wins than the Jays not only make the playoffs but win it all!

[Madchester]

Rogers Centre is a much better hitter's park than Oakland. You could run a marathon in its foul territory.

The big concerns is really injuries with FT. Otherwise, he's the RHP-pounding bat that the Jays need. I remember how the Jays wins differential between starting lefties and righties was heavily skewed in favour of the former.

[spike-spiegel]

Reports are saying, 2 for $23M plus club option for third.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/11/15/bluejays.thomas/index.html
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6177240

Wowwwwwwwwwww..... that's a lot for a DH. Perhaps too much. Unless Rogers opened up the bank to $100M, this might not have been wise spending.

Unless, the rumour mills starting churning and we could see a trade of Wells or something. I mean, if the budget is at $90M and they had $20M+ to spend, they just spent $11.5M on the DH... mmmmmmm......

Troy Glaus makes about $12M, I think. Maybe trade Glaus away for pitching and shed some salary although he has a full no-trade clause?

Maybe convert Lind into a 3B? I honestly believe Lind's bat belongs in the majors next year, no more AAA.

Sucks to be A's, maybe they will push hard for Barry Bonds now!

[gordholio]

i always thought his $500,000/yr contract last year + incentives if he played was an amazing deal for the athletics.

if the guy does produce, he produces big time... so... you have nothing to lose hwen you're giving him $500,000... hell, eric hinske is getting something like $4-5m.

--

back to this deal, AMAZING IF THE JAYS GET HIM. big props to j.p. getting me all excited right after the season is over...

--

apparantly its 2 yrs for $23mil.... holy cow...

I have a hard time believing it's anywhere near that amount.

[theinfamous]

$23 mil over 2 years for Thomas is just freakin nuts. Even something like $10 mil for 2 years is too much IMO unless a lot of the contract is incentive based.

[hOrnizuka]

sportsnet just said "20m for 2yrs".

[spike-spiegel]

$23 mil over 2 years for Thomas is just freakin nuts. Even something like $10 mil for 2 years is too much IMO unless a lot of the contract is incentive based.

It is nuts. Jays overpaid... what else is new.

2 for $10M? Thats even nuttier. Thomas is coming off a MVP-type season. DeRosa got $13M/3 and he was a career backup before the season.

Baseball has new contract standards... everything will seem nuts now.

[Madchester]

We don't know how the incentives will factor into the contract. It's all speculation until then.

FT has some sick career numbers against The Big Unit and Mussina. Can't wait for him to feast on Yankee pitching.

[gei]

wow i am absolutely shocked... never saw this one coming.

the jays are really breaking the bank here. I'm surprised at all the big names they are able to attract...

[SoGood]

i just hope we don't re-sign catalanatto, reed johnson needs to play and lind can be the 4th outfielder...hattig should also definately stick as an extra bat...
these guys need to their reps in the majors

i don't think we necessarily needed to sign frank thomas as our offense wasn't even the problem last yr....
it was lack of middle infielder to play with hill, and injuries to our starting staff...
could have used that money on a couple of starters and middle infielder instead all in the while giving lind and hattig AB at the DH position platooning.

[gordholio]

I don't really care if they "overpaid" for Thomas (assuming they've signed him).
At least they have a top notch DH now.

[gei]

JP knows we need some starting pitching and a couple of middle infielders more than we needed a big bat... perhaps rogers has opened up their wallets more than expected?

[gordholio]

Who knows, maybe this is a move that will lead to the trading of Vernon Wells.
Thomas certainly replaces Wells' batting statistics.

[spike-spiegel]

JP knows we need some starting pitching and a couple of middle infielders more than we needed a big bat... perhaps rogers has opened up their wallets more than expected?

Blue Jays have kept that part really secretive this year unlike last year. If Ted did open up to a $100M, then I would be okay with this signing. If they are working at around $85-90, then this signing does not look too cost-efficient at this point. Could have gotten one overpriced pitcher with Thomas money.

Who knows, maybe this is a move that will lead to the trading of Vernon Wells.
Thomas certainly replaces Wells' batting statistics.

In power, yes but only when healthy. Average, speed, Wells is obviously better. And defense is not possible to compare. This to trading Vernon Wells? Maybe... but I think JP made this move keeping in mind Wells in 2007 in a playoff run. After that.... we'll see.

This signing might actually push Vernon's contract just because if Jays can pay $10M to a 38-year old DH injury-risk slugger, why can't they pay $15 or 16 for a 27-year old Gold Glover with MVP-caliber production?

Glaus btw has 2 more years at around $11-12 per year left with a full no-trade clause.


i just hope we don't re-sign catalanatto, reed johnson needs to play and lind can be the 4th outfielder...hattig should also definately stick as an extra bat...
these guys need to their reps in the majors

i don't think we necessarily needed to sign frank thomas as our offense wasn't even the problem last yr....
it was lack of middle infielder to play with hill, and injuries to our starting staff...
could have used that money on a couple of starters and middle infielder instead all in the while giving lind and hattig AB at the DH position platooning.


Cat is as good as gone now. Even without this signing, I think Cat wanted to play full-time and he deserves to. He's been nothing but great as a Blue Jay. I'm not so sure on keeping a hot prospect like Lind as a DH or as a backup, rather see them have one more year in AAA. Lind should develop his outfield skills in AAA in case Wells is gone. Hattig can be a decent backup to Glaus at 3B.

The offence became a problem when the pitching became healthy but Rios got injured and Glaus struggled mightily.


But put aside the financial and the pitching problems and imagine this lineup:

Johnson
Rios
Wells
Thomas
Glaus
Overbay
Catcher (Zaun?)
Hill
SS

That might not be the Bronx Bombers but it's very good. Overbay is possibly one of the most underrated players right now. Expect another all-star from Rios too. Hill can be a .300 hitter. Between 3-4-5-6, there can be 140 HRs. Plus, unless Yankees get two marquee starters, I feel Jays rotation is better than NYY assuming they sign two starters comparable to Lilly. Boston... that's a little tighter but their lineup is whacked.

[Madchester]

Papa Rogers has a lot more in his coffers than most people expect.

I remember how the Jays signed Benji Molina 2 weeks before spring training. That signing was completely out of the blue, considering the earlier off-season deals for Glaus, Ryan, Overbay, and Burnett that seemed to have exhausted the Jays' resources.

[NDman]

I like JP's intention to make some noise now at the lower level FA. Judging by the reactions, this year's FA class will work like a cascade more than ever before. No one was gonna move in on Schmidt and Zito until the dust has fallen on Matsuzaka (which now it's pretty much settled); then Maddux and Glavine. Then there are the premium bats like Drew, Soriano, A. Ramirez (off market now), Carlos Lee. Then the lower tier Matthews Jr, Edmonds; then lower.

Realistically, I don't think the Jays will go after any of those guys so they might as well start early to snipe the less premium guys that the big guns are after. If Hurt is willing to DH and he's rested properly, he can still do damage. Oakland has proven that last year and I think he still has something left in his tank

[thelefteyeguy]

Who knows, maybe this is a move that will lead to the trading of Vernon Wells.
Thomas certainly replaces Wells' batting statistics.

i think so too....Wells for some pitching

[PCDawg]

The big hurt sure would be a nice addition. But thats too expensive to pay for a player that wont be playing in those interleague games. And what IF we do make to the world series? How's he to play at the national league home games? PH??

[Rocketo]

The big hurt sure would be a nice addition. But thats too expensive to pay for a player that wont be playing in those interleague games. And what IF we do make to the world series? How's he to play at the national league home games? PH??

i guess he can learn how to catch?

[Tofu Drift Shinji]

If the budget isn't capped at $90M, this would be a decent signing. If it is, JP may be stretching it a bit thin if he plans on . Hopefully, TBH's ankle problems are behind him. Good for Ted Rogers and his spending. It's good to know that the profits from my cable, cell phone and TV bill will be going into something I will appreciate as a Jays fan.

We do need to ink at least one solid starter, a decent 2B/SS and go after Vernon hard. Hopefully, the money is still there to do all of these things.

[spike-spiegel]

If the budget isn't capped at $90M, this would be a decent signing. If it is, JP may be stretching it a bit thin if he plans on . Hopefully, TBH's ankle problems are behind him. Good for Ted Rogers and his spending. It's good to know that the profits from my cable, cell phone and TV bill will be going into something I will appreciate as a Jays fan.

We do need to ink at least one solid starter, a decent 2B/SS and go after Vernon hard. Hopefully, the money is still there to do all of these things.


Getting Thomas might let JP get a cheaper and defensively solid SS instead an all-around SS.

Looks like Jays have interest catcher Barajas. He's younger than Zaun but might ask for more money.

[kevin01]

barajas should be signed by blue jays as a catcher. www.prosportsdaily.com go to mlb rumours, and hten blue jays, best rumours.

[SoGood]

i'd rather zaun instead of barajas....he knows our pitchers, very good hitter for a catcher, and a leader in the clubhouse...even if he will cost a bit more.

[skyblue12]

i just hope we don't re-sign catalanatto, reed johnson needs to play and lind can be the 4th outfielder...hattig should also definately stick as an extra bat...
these guys need to their reps in the majors

i don't think we necessarily needed to sign frank thomas as our offense wasn't even the problem last yr....
it was lack of middle infielder to play with hill, and injuries to our starting staff...
could have used that money on a couple of starters and middle infielder instead all in the while giving lind and hattig AB at the DH position platooning.


catalanatto was one of our most clutch hitters last year every time i watched him bat with runners in scoring position he came through most of the time for us. i don't think there's any way he's going to come back 'cause i'm sure other teams are attracted to him but i think he was a great player for the jays. on the other hand i don't see lind or hattig playing in the majors just yet we brought them up to see how they would do in the majors near the end of the season but i don't think they're ready just yet. if we're able to resign wells thats a killer 3-4-5-6 with wells glaus thomas and overbay so imo we can keep mcdonald in the lineup for his defense and have him bat 9th.

[Tofu Drift Shinji]

It's nearly official; Big Hurt Signed Pending Physical

http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061116&content_id=1742073&vkey=news_tor&fext=.jsp&c_id=tor

[Madchester]

The deal is official. 2yrs/18 million, with a $10 M option for Year 3. I think the option was what swayed Thomas to the Jays, b/c the Rangers were offering a basic $18M deal, no option.

2:30 press conference.

[spike-spiegel]

The deal is official. 2yrs/18 million, with a $10 M option for Year 3. I think the option was what swayed Thomas to the Jays, b/c the Rangers were offering a basic $18M deal, no option.

2:30 press conference.

I wonder what kind of option it is. Hopefully it is a team option with a small buyout or maybe a vested option. Player option would not be too good since the Hurt will be 41.


Jays should try the posting route and go after Kei Igawa.
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061117&content_id=1742628&vkey=hotstove2006&fext=.jsp

Jays should try to dip into the Asian market, it'll be good for the city and attendance.

[Madchester]

the Sun has rumours of the team dangling Adams, Chacin and Johnson as trade bait.

Of the three, Johnson would have to get the most offers. I just have a bad feeling that he overachieved this season and it's probably time to trade him. Probably my favorite everyday player though....

[phd1969]

If Frank Thomas produces like he did last season, he's going to have a crazy year because the Rogers Centre is such a hitters ballpark. If Wells resigns, that's going to be one big batter's lineup, Rios, Wells, Glaus, and now Thomas. Then you have guys that hit for averages like Reed, Cat, Hill, and Overbay.

[spike-spiegel]

the Sun has rumours of the team dangling Adams, Chacin and Johnson as trade bait.

Of the three, Johnson would have to get the most offers. I just have a bad feeling that he overachieved this season and it's probably time to trade him. Probably my favorite everyday player though....

The Jays might be dangling those three and others but I don't put the Sun high on my reliable list. No sources, just a sentence.

I can see Adams and Chacin, but I would think Johnson is so cost-efficient and a leadoff hitter the Jays haven't had since Shannon Stewart became to expensive to be kept. Unless JP plans on putting that load on Rios, I think moving Johnson would be unwise.

Chacin, well he's young earning peanuts. He's lefty and has done alright in his first two seasons. Jays need pitching so I doubt he gets move.

Jays really dont have much in trade bait. Don't want to keep trading those pitching prospects. Maybe trading a hot prospect in Lind for some immediate pitching? Just a thought... I wouldnt do it.

[Hanniganite]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2665836

The article sheds some more light on the contract...

[Blue_Thunder13]

I think i might be the only one to not like this signing that much :confused: I thought the jays were only going for young talent (atleast thats wat it seemed last offseason) and IMO i think its kind of overpaying for a 38 year old...money that could be better spent on resigning wells and getting some more pitching?

[McLaren]

Any guesses on how long for Gibbons and Thomas to duke it out? Thats like a train-wreck waiting to happen.

[rdtx2002]

I think i might be the only one to not like this signing that much :confused: I thought the jays were only going for young talent (atleast thats wat it seemed last offseason) and IMO i think its kind of overpaying for a 38 year old...money that could be better spent on resigning wells and getting some more pitching?

who says you can't resign Wells and also get pitching?.. it's not like you know how much money is in the war chest..

imo.. i don't think Vernon will stay

[gordholio]

We have no idea how much Ted Rogers will spend on the team this year.
He has lots and lots of money though, so if he wants to spend lots, I don't care.

[spike-spiegel]

We have no idea how much Ted Rogers will spend on the team this year.
He has lots and lots of money though, so if he wants to spend lots, I don't care.

The MLB industry is booming right now. Jays are on their way to recovery as well. Getting pitching this year and signing Wells for next year and beyond is not too much related. I think JP is concern with getting the best team for next year to show to Vernon and Ted that Jays can be successful, and then asking for more payroll money would be a lot easier.

Vernon said he wants to stay. Unless something happens, he'll probably feel the same next year. If Jays have the money, why not re-sign here as long as it's fair? Although the Jays seem to be deepest in good outfield prospects right now.

One way for good PR for consumers handing their hefty TV/phone bill to Ted Rogers is by spending some of it on a sports team.

[skyblue12]

who says you can't resign Wells and also get pitching?.. it's not like you know how much money is in the war chest..

imo.. i don't think Vernon will stay

if vernon doesn't stay i hope they get somebody worthwhile from a trade.

[Hanniganite]

Jays are gonna have to look outside for relief pitching now...Speier signs with the Angels:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2668298

Just noticed ESPN insider is free this weekend for MLB stuff. They did it with NBA stuff a little while ago..

[almostfreeman]

Should be interesting if Gibbons tries to pull any of that ***t that he tried to pull with Hillenbrand and Lilly. Look for more clubhouse fireworks as a big bomb has been added to the team chemistry. :twisted:

[kevin01]

Should be interesting if Gibbons tries to pull any of that ***t that he tried to pull with Hillenbrand and Lilly. Look for more clubhouse fireworks as a big bomb has been added to the team chemistry. :twisted:

thats why i want him fired as soon as possible. If not, they need someone else to handle the bullpen, because he really used them too much at teh wrong times.

[spike-spiegel]

Reports: Cubs agree to $136M deal with Soriano
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2668465

Angels to add Jays' Speier to already deep bullpen
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2668298

Rangers close to signing Catalanotto
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6188778

[kevin01]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2668298

Rangers close to signing Catalanotto
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6188778



And we get 2 first round draft picks if those go down. Thats what i heard, so well have 3 next year (2+ours), and 1 more if bengie signs.

[spike-spiegel]

And we get 2 first round draft picks if those go down. Thats what i heard, so well have 3 next year (2+ours), and 1 more if bengie signs.

Minus the draft picks that Jays will have to compensate when they sign free agents... I think Oakland will get one for Frank Thomas.

[canabiz]

Gibby is the weak link

[Hybrid88]

Sign Vernon Wells to an extension and pay him $17+/year since other yahoos are getting that much.

Get rid of Gibby.

Sign another a lefty pitcher but at this point I'm not sure who.

And we can deal away some prospects when we are in the playoff hunt.

Best of luck to the Cat - great player and better character & team player.

[spike-spiegel]

Ironically, with Speier signing with LAA, I can see LAA offering Shields, Santana, prospect for Wells. It's not fair value but it does cover some holes up quickly and cheaply. Dont think Jays will do it since they are leaning towards keeping Wells.


Sign Vernon Wells to an extension and pay him $17+/year since other yahoos are getting that much.

The quicker Wells, the better the deal. The market is going crazy. Jays cant afford $17+ on one player.

[Hanniganite]

Nomar gets about the same contract as Thomas to stay in LA
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=ApU84DQaPxlmk6WYRmodP_ERvLYF?slug=ap-dodgers-garciaparra&prov=ap&type=lgns

[canabiz]

Cat signs with Texas Rangers

You will be sorely missed :(

[almostfreeman]

Cat signs with Texas Rangers

You will be sorely missed :(

I'm for clearing all the deadwood off the team. Frank is a decent bench player and contact hitter but in no way irreplaceable.

Vernon has taken his time but is finally producing to his potential and will probably have some good years ahead of him. I'm not for breaking the bank to re-sign him for a few reasons.

The Jays desperately need a real leadoff hitter, one who can walk, bunt, hit for average and is at least a threat to steal. Finding a middle infielder to fill this role should be high prority. Middle infielders are the pitching staff's friends and are a key ingredient to winning pennants ... a new Fernandez/Alomar combination has to be found.

With the addition of Frank Thomas, the significance of Vernon's bat in the lineup becomes somewhat diminished. Rios is really developing nicely and may be the outfielder that will make Jays fans forget Vernon left. Glaus is still gonna provide power and Overbay will get his share so they still have some pop even if Vernon doesn't get resigned.

Riccardi really kinda kicked Zaun in the teeth last year when he signed Molina. Bet Greg is still miffed and signs somewhere else ... but if they can they should resign him. His intensity and character is something the team needs.

Add as much more pitching as the budget allows and I think the team will start the season in good shape.

[spike-spiegel]

Nomar gets about the same contract as Thomas to stay in LA
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=ApU84DQaPxlmk6WYRmodP_ERvLYF?slug=ap-dodgers-garciaparra&prov=ap&type=lgns

This is a fair comparison to Thomas' contract. Although Nomar plays the field. But that led to him being injured again. So both hitters are injury-plagued history but Nomar was injured again last year. Thomas has the better bat too. If JP really wanted Thomas, I'm glad he got him early. The market is going wack.



I'm for clearing all the deadwood off the team. Frank is a decent bench player and contact hitter but in no way irreplaceable.

Vernon has taken his time but is finally producing to his potential and will probably have some good years ahead of him. I'm not for breaking the bank to re-sign him for a few reasons.

The Jays desperately need a real leadoff hitter, one who can walk, bunt, hit for average and is at least a threat to steal. Finding a middle infielder to fill this role should be high prority. Middle infielders are the pitching staff's friends and are a key ingredient to winning pennants ... a new Fernandez/Alomar combination has to be found.

With the addition of Frank Thomas, the significance of Vernon's bat in the lineup becomes somewhat diminished. Rios is really developing nicely and may be the outfielder that will make Jays fans forget Vernon left. Glaus is still gonna provide power and Overbay will get his share so they still have some pop even if Vernon doesn't get resigned.

Riccardi really kinda kicked Zaun in the teeth last year when he signed Molina. Bet Greg is still miffed and signs somewhere else ... but if they can they should resign him. His intensity and character is something the team needs.

Add as much more pitching as the budget allows and I think the team will start the season in good shape.


Then this article is for you (by Scott Carson): http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/columnist.jsp?content=20061121_130403_6248

I think it's safe to assume Wells can easily get $16-18 if Soriano got $17. Maybe not for eight years but who knows, some GM would bite. I get the sense that JP really believes in going into 2007 with Wells to win, and perhaps convince him to give a hometown discount of like $15-16 which is reasonable.

If not, I like the above suggestions as well if Angels are willing. Chone Figgins at SS, Lackey or Santana, Shields or a prospect for Wells. That fills up at least two holes with quality but cheap players. Figgins has good speed and can be a leadoff man. Santana or Lackey is a solid 3. Shields is replacement for Speier.

SS Figgins
CF Johnson
1B Overbay
DH Thomas
3B Glaus
RF Rios
C
2B Hill
LF Lind

Halladay
Burnett
Lackey/Santana
Chacin
#5

Shields, BJ Ryan

Problem is I'm not sure how good Figgins would be as a regular SS. Lind could replace Cat and Reed would shift to CF. Sure, Wells is gone but the lineup becomes much more balanced and versatile. And of course, the pitching is improved without spending money in the inflated market. Let's see how desperate LAA gets if they can't find a outfielder/power bat. The question is: if this trade is possible, does this make the Jays a better team, considering the uncertainty of Wells' future here?

That's a tough one to answer because Wells is a future MVP-type player.

[NDman]

Zuan and Jays are far apart

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=MLB&id=2091

We'll see how it goes. I'd love to see him back but I don't think JP should go any higher than 3M per

On another note, this FA year has been crazy. Juan Pierre is close to a 45M/5yr deal with the Dodgers! At leasthe's likely off the market that JP won't do anything stupid with one of the most overrated lead-off hitters in the game these days

[501]

wow frank thomas? lol isnt he like in his 40's?. -_-

bleh im not much into baseball..i dont think he's worth that much.

[actyper]

wow frank thomas? lol isnt he like in his 40's?. -_-

bleh im not much into baseball..i dont think he's worth that much.

How can you say he's not worth that much if you don't watch baseball? Comeback player of the year, 4th in mvp voting.

[spike-spiegel]

How can you say he's not worth that much if you don't watch baseball? Comeback player of the year, 4th in mvp voting.

Well actually, Thome won Comeback which was a ripoff to Thomas. No way Thome had a better year than Frank.

In other news, Matthews, Angels agree to 5-year, $50 million deal
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2672448

Personally, I think he had a lucky in a contract year. Also, he doesn't provide the protection for Vlad like they need. So Wells trade might be a bit slimmer now, who knows.

[skyblue12]

i think that thomas is a great player.. only thing is that i don't think we need him in our lineup. even though people say we've been looking for a good DH for a long time now since hillenbrand was gone, it's not like we need a frank thomas to fill that spot. we have plenty of power and run producing players and we're taking a HUGE risk with thomas because he is so injury prone. maybe we should have spent the money on pitching and maybe signing a julio lugo instead.. at least that gives us more depth at the SS position and lugo can hit 10-15 homers.. not comparable to thomas' 39 hrs and 114 rbi's but thats why we have glaus overbay and wells. rios is also beginning to hit for a lot of power as well.. i dunno like i said thomas is great but i don't think he's the solution to our problems.. in fact it manufactured more problems cause now we don't have much money to spend and with zaun on the verge of not resigning with the jays, we'll need as much money as possible to fill in those slots that we need, MORE important than the DH spot.

[actyper]

Well actually, Thome won Comeback which was a ripoff to Thomas. No way Thome had a better year than Frank.

In other news, Matthews, Angels agree to 5-year, $50 million deal
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2672448

Personally, I think he had a lucky in a contract year. Also, he doesn't provide the protection for Vlad like they need. So Wells trade might be a bit slimmer now, who knows.

For real? I actually had no idea who won, I just thought it was a given that Thomas would win! How was Thome in 05? I thought he always had decent years.

I agree, GMjr I don't think is that great of a hitter. On the field is a different story.

[wesleyw]

Is it just me dreaming, or does Gagne setting up for Ryan sound like a gamble worth taking? Since Gagne has been out for 2 years, I don't see why we can't have him sign a performance clause contract. A base salary of a million or so and with clauses such as X number of appearance, etc etc.

[phd1969]

Gagne is done, injuries and I'm pretty sure his breakout year was thanks to some performance enhancing drugs.

[mingcourt]

i would sign gagne.

1. hes canadian. creates hype. hell, if corey koskie can bring some attention to the toronto fans... gagne should be 10x better.
2. you sign him to a short deal cause he's been injured...
3. you wouldnt offer him too much money cause he has been so injured...
4. if he sucks, big deal. youve got him til the end of the year
5. if he brings his game, you've got a lockdown pitcher

[theinfamous]

Well actually, Thome won Comeback which was a ripoff to Thomas. No way Thome had a better year than Frank.

In other news, Matthews, Angels agree to 5-year, $50 million deal
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2672448

Personally, I think he had a lucky in a contract year. Also, he doesn't provide the protection for Vlad like they need. So Wells trade might be a bit slimmer now, who knows.

Any chance of Anaheim trading for V-dub is gone now that they signed Matthews. They probably matched up the best with the Jays in terms of having the best MLB ready prospects. That being said, Texas now has a huge hole in CF. Wells would probably love to be traded there but Texas has crap prospects.

[skyblue12]

texas rangers have signed catalanotto to a 3 yr. deal worth $13 mil .. that kind of solves their problem in CF the cat is in no way as good of a OF than GMjr but at least he can play the OF.

i'm a true blue jays fan, but it's sad to say that i think the jays are going to do worse in the 2007 season than last season.

[Hanniganite]

texas rangers have signed catalanotto to a 3 yr. deal worth $13 mil .. that kind of solves their problem in CF the cat is in no way as good of a OF than GMjr but at least he can play the OF.

i'm a true blue jays fan, but it's sad to say that i think the jays are going to do worse in the 2007 season than last season.

Why, because there's been one addition and a couple of subtractions? Spring training isn't tomorrow....pretty sure some more stuff's gonna happen before the 2007 season.

[spike-spiegel]

For real? I actually had no idea who won, I just thought it was a given that Thomas would win! How was Thome in 05? I thought he always had decent years.

I agree, GMjr I don't think is that great of a hitter. On the field is a different story.

Thome had shoulder injuries in 05. He was good in 06, but not as good as Thomas. And he played on a more talented team that didn't make the playoffs. Thomas was a one-man offense that drove the A's into the playoffs. He won the Comeback award voted by players but the writers ripped him off of the official one.


i would sign gagne.

1. hes canadian. creates hype. hell, if corey koskie can bring some attention to the toronto fans... gagne should be 10x better.
2. you sign him to a short deal cause he's been injured...
3. you wouldnt offer him too much money cause he has been so injured...
4. if he sucks, big deal. youve got him til the end of the year
5. if he brings his game, you've got a lockdown pitcher
Is it just me dreaming, or does Gagne setting up for Ryan sound like a gamble worth taking? Since Gagne has been out for 2 years, I don't see why we can't have him sign a performance clause contract. A base salary of a million or so and with clauses such as X number of appearance, etc etc.

Rumours says he might want $10 million on a one-year deal. That's a lot to pay for a player who had two elbow surgeries and one back surgery. Though he is only three years removed from his historic season. $10M is a lot to risk for the Jays even if it is Gagne. I wouldn't give him more than $3-5 plus incentives.

Any chance of Anaheim trading for V-dub is gone now that they signed Matthews. They probably matched up the best with the Jays in terms of having the best MLB ready prospects. That being said, Texas now has a huge hole in CF. Wells would probably love to be traded there but Texas has crap prospects.

I think Jays rather hold on to him rather than trade for prospects. I rather JP trade him if they cant sign him rather than take the two draft picks. Texas has good pitching prospects, but again, prospects. Jays have holes needed to be filled at the major league level.

[wesleyw]

texas rangers have signed catalanotto to a 3 yr. deal worth $13 mil .. that kind of solves their problem in CF the cat is in no way as good of a OF than GMjr but at least he can play the OF.

I highly doubt Cat would be playing CF for them. He is a decent corner outfielder but he doesn't have the range/speed/arm etc to play CF. Rangers now have a HUGE hole in the OF after losing GM Jr, and it looks like they will have to have someone from the minor step in next season since it doesn't look like there is much available in the FA.

I think Jays rather hold on to him rather than trade for prospects. I rather JP trade him if they cant sign him rather than take the two draft picks. Texas has good pitching prospects, but again, prospects. Jays have holes needed to be filled at the major league level.

I think either we sign up to a long term deal now, or we will be keeping him for the season and hopefully have him resign, unless we fall out of the division/wild card race by trade deadline. If we are anywhere close to a playoff spot, it does not make any sense to trade him away. It will send the wrong message to the fans, and other potential free agents.

Any chance of Anaheim trading for V-dub is gone now that they signed Matthews. They probably matched up the best with the Jays in terms of having the best MLB ready prospects. That being said, Texas now has a huge hole in CF. Wells would probably love to be traded there but Texas has crap prospects.

Thats very debatable. It depends if you're referring to the players that are on the verge of making the club, or the players that have made a splash in the MLB but was only in their first season/stint with the big club

Rumours says he might want $10 million on a one-year deal. That's a lot to pay for a player who had two elbow surgeries and one back surgery. Though he is only three years removed from his historic season. $10M is a lot to risk for the Jays even if it is Gagne. I wouldn't give him more than $3-5 plus incentives.

He won't get anywhere close to that amount, not even BJ got a $10 million per year contract. I say 3-5 million is still too much. A base of a million to two million + incentives should be the ceiling IMO.

[Hanniganite]

Carlos Lee signs with Houston for 6yr/$100mil...not official but close enough.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2674398

[spike-spiegel]

Report: Jays close to deal with Barajas
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061124&content_id=1745869&vkey=hotstove2006&fext=.jsp

$6M/2 is what they offered Zaun that he refused. Sounded like either JP made a mistake in not re-signing Zaun before Blanco got that ridiculous money or JP didn't really want Zaun.

I mean Zaun has been good, but two years at more than $3M for a catcher that's 36 soon might be a bit too much.

Tho Zaun has a good OBP and switch hitting, prone to burnouts, but handles pitching staff great.

Barajas seem to have more power but worse OBP. He's four years younger too.

Rumours are saying Zaun might want to sign as a backup with Boston or NYY. That stuff about having to be everyday catcher must have been a bluff or something. Sad to see Zaun go, he was a good player here. Might had been pushing for too much money at 35 though. Stupid Blanco and Cubs, they are inflating the market too much.

[theinfamous]

Thats very debatable. It depends if you're referring to the players that are on the verge of making the club, or the players that have made a splash in the MLB but was only in their first season/stint with the big club


If you look at the teams that were rumoured to be interested in Wells, Anaheim by far has the best prospects both in terms of guys in the minors like Aybar and Wood and guys with a year or two of MLB experience like Santana or Napoli. No other team even comes close to what Anaheim could have offered the Jays.

[SoGood]

Report: Jays close to deal with Barajas
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061124&content_id=1745869&vkey=hotstove2006&fext=.jsp

$6M/2 is what they offered Zaun that he refused. Sounded like either JP made a mistake in not re-signing Zaun before Blanco got that ridiculous money or JP didn't really want Zaun.

I mean Zaun has been good, but two years at more than $3M for a catcher that's 36 soon might be a bit too much.

Tho Zaun has a good OBP and switch hitting, prone to burnouts, but handles pitching staff great.

Barajas seem to have more power but worse OBP. He's four years younger too.

Rumours are saying Zaun might want to sign as a backup with Boston or NYY. That stuff about having to be everyday catcher must have been a bluff or something. Sad to see Zaun go, he was a good player here. Might had been pushing for too much money at 35 though. Stupid Blanco and Cubs, they are inflating the market too much.

what was zaun looking for?....5-6 mill/yr??...
well i see his point about a back up getting about 3 mill...he definately deserves 5-6/yr. just too bad that the jays won't get giving it to him.
and i don't think its bluff that he wanted to be everyday catcher, but i guess in the end if a top team like boston or NYY offers you close to what you want even for a back up role, you have a great chance of winning the championship which is why most play the game in the first place.
but if he does go to them i don't see him getting much playing time behind varitek or posada

[gstrgreg]

oh god. don't sign barajas, JP
pay like 1 mill more and get zaun back

[kevin01]

oh god. don't sign barajas, JP
pay like 1 mill more and get zaun back

Zaun is not worth it anymore. Barajas will do good.

[wesleyw]

If you look at the teams that were rumoured to be interested in Wells, Anaheim by far has the best prospects both in terms of guys in the minors like Aybar and Wood and guys with a year or two of MLB experience like Santana or Napoli. No other team even comes close to what Anaheim could have offered the Jays.

If you were referring specificly to the teams that would be interested in Wells, then I agree with you in that the Angels have the best talent available in return for Wells. But if you are talking about the prospects in general in the league, then again, its a whole debate onits own.

[spike-spiegel]

Zaun is not worth it anymore. Barajas will do good.

Barajas is the youngest free agent catcher available.

Blanco got $5.25/2 years and Zaun said JP offered "a hair" more than that. So I'm guessing like $5.5-6. I dont see how Zaun would want to push for more than $6/2. That sounds okay. Also I think JP didnt like the fact Zaun went public with contract negotiations.

Barajas seems to have better power but I am concerned about handling the pitching staff. This catcher carousel is no good.

[wesleyw]

I think JP offered Zaun the same contract he offered Barajas, 2 year 6 million.

[spike-spiegel]

I think JP offered Zaun the same contract he offered Barajas, 2 year 6 million.

And he turned it down. So JP either had to choose between paying a bit more to Zaun, a familiar catcher with better OBP and stats but four years older, or save some money and get a more power hitting catcher in Barajas.

If JP really really really wanted Zaun back, he would have never started negotiating with Barajas and re-signed Zaun wayyyy back. So I think JP saw Barajas as a pretty good replacement to Zaun not to have to be so desperate for Zaun.

[blarg]

Barajas has a career .282 OBP :eek:

[spike-spiegel]

what was zaun looking for?....5-6 mill/yr??...
well i see his point about a back up getting about 3 mill...he definately deserves 5-6/yr. just too bad that the jays won't get giving it to him.
and i don't think its bluff that he wanted to be everyday catcher, but i guess in the end if a top team like boston or NYY offers you close to what you want even for a back up role, you have a great chance of winning the championship which is why most play the game in the first place.
but if he does go to them i don't see him getting much playing time behind varitek or posada


Zaun has won a World Series with the Marlins. I think Zaun just wants to play everyday and earn a good paycheque. Oh well, he has a future in broadcasting after retirement though.

[spike-spiegel]

http://www.globesports.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20061127.wsptblairjays27/GSStory/GlobeSportsBaseball/home
Zaun says Jays care more about bottom line than improvement

Turns out the Toronto Blue Jays final offer to Gregg Zaun was just that - a final offer.

"I guess I grossly under-estimated my value to them," Zaun said Monday in a telephone interview, responding to the fact that the Blue Jays had agreed with free-agent catcher Rod Barajas on a two-year, $5.25 million contract (all figures U.S.) and in the process severed their ties to Zaun. "But that's J.P. (Ricciardi, the Blue Jays general manager.) If he wants something bad enough, he gets it. He didn't want to pay me $6 million - he got that."

Barajas's contract is pending pending a physical examination.

The Blue Jays offered Zaun a two-year, $6 million (all figures U.S.) deal but in initial conversations Zaun was said to be asking for two years and $10 million or three years at $13.5 million. Zaun - who some observers believe would have settled for $7 million over two years - was also prepared to defer money.

The Blue Jays were not interested in either option - and Monday afternoon Zaun was left feeling, in his words, "sadly disappointed."

"I know they gave me my chance in 2004, and I will always appreciate that," said Zaun. "But I feel that the last two years, the 2005 and 2006 seasons, were the product of my hard work."

Barajas was expected to be in Toronto Tuesday, when the team brings up free-agent Frank Thomas for a news conference. But logistics may now prevent that.

Barajas, who hit .256 with 11 home runs and 41 runs batted in this past season with the Texas Rangers, is five years younger than Zaun — who hit .272 with 12 homers and 40 RBIs. Barajas hit 21 homers two years ago as a regular with the Rangers.

Barajas made $3.2 million in 2006. Zaun earned $1 million.

The major difference between the two players offensively is in on-base percentage, which heavily favours Zaun.

But the Blue Jays think they have landed a superior defensive catcher. In 97 games, Barajas threw out 33 per-cent of opposing baserunners this past season (19 of 57.) Zaun threw out just under 25 per-cent (17 of 72.)

Zaun and Bengie Molina shared catcher's duties for the Blue Jays in 2006. Both are free agents. Zaun has attracted interest from the Boston Red Sox and New York Yankees — in a backup capacity — but late last week the San Francisco Giants emerged as a contender for his services.

The Giants have serious concerns about incumbent Mike Matheny's ability to recover from post-concussion syndrome.

Zaun said that his agent, T.R. Lewis, had not heard from Ricciardi Monday. He also said that while he would have a soft spot for the organization and city because of the chance the Blue Jays gave him, "the last two years there (Toronto) were the product of my hard work."

"Personally? I thought J.P. and I would get this (a new contract) done in one day," said Zaun, who retained the services of Lewis after initially planning on doing his own negotiating.

"I didn't think there'd be anything like this. I didn't think there'd be any posturing - although I guess, in the end, J.P. wasn't posturing, was he?

"I think for them (the Blue Jays) the bottom line was more important than making the team better. Because I don't think anybodu can say this move makes the Blue Jays better."

[Hanniganite]

Too bad. Would've preferred Zaun...I think 2 years/$6-7mil would've been fine. Ah well, hopefully Barajas has good rapport with the pitchers and at least bats decently at the bottom of the order.

[actyper]

Not sure why JP is worried so much about age, thought he had till 08 to field a playoff team anyways. Also Zaun never played like a 35yr old. There must be some other reason, especially if Zaun would have settled for $7mil / 2yrs (if thats true).

[spike-spiegel]

Too bad. Would've preferred Zaun...I think 2 years/$6-7mil would've been fine. Ah well, hopefully Barajas has good rapport with the pitchers and at least bats decently at the bottom of the order.

Ya at least it sounds like Barajas has good game calling and defence. Zaun's arm wasn't as bad as the stats made it look to be.

Not sure why JP is worried so much about age, thought he had till 08 to field a playoff team anyways. Also Zaun never played like a 35yr old. There must be some other reason, especially if Zaun would have settled for $7mil / 2yrs (if thats true).

I think Zaun actually noticeably tired out in the season he played 130 games. His second half was pure struggle. That be said, he played well even after concussion and splitting time last year with Bengie.

2 years would have meant 36 and 37. I guess JP was worried by more about 2008 season and have more than $3 million on a declining catcher.

I guess JP was firm on $6M max for a catcher and when Zaun said more, JP didn't budge and chose Barajas instead.

[spike-spiegel]

Huh?

Blue Jays on verge of re-signing catcher Zaun
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2678002

[Irb]

Yup Zaun to return.

Good news.

[Ogata]

Did you guys forget about how Molina was the starting Catcher and Zaun wanted to be the everyday catcher this season? I think him and JP have some issues to work out if anything. We also have to worry about

1.A Free Agent SP
2.SU Man if Gibby/JP can't decide on League / Accardo
3.Middle infielder (Adam Kennedy/Don't know why we need Julio Lugo)

Both Lily and Hillenbrand seem to be bounded to the Yanks and Zaun might go to them or the Red Sox as a "backup" as well as Molina. Spier has gone to the Angels but for what purpose? They going to rotate him with Shields?

Heres How I see our SP Rotation if we do not sign anyone

1.Roy Hallady
2.AJ Burnett
3.Gustavo Chacin
4.Marcum
5.Towers/Taubenhiem/Mcgowan/Rosario

I personally do not want to see Randy Wolf or Padilla come here. Meche would be ok...Zito is too expensive..but Mulder? I don't know. Its bad enough JP had to strike big on the Big Hurt. I mean

Johnson
Rios
Wells
Thomas
Glaus
Overbay
Hill/Kennedy
Barajas/Phillips/

seems pretty good for a Offensive lineup now that I HOPE they make Thomas a clean up hitter since Glaus has been utterly frustrated as a Clean up hitter throwing his bat / helmet away for striking out or DPing and removing some of the pressure off.

[gstrgreg]

Yup Zaun to return.

Good news.

im confuzzled.. too many conflicting reports

Zaun for 2yrs / 10 mill is WAY too much though.. thats just crazy

[phd1969]

Did you guys forget about how Molina was the starting Catcher and Zaun wanted to be the everyday catcher this season? I think him and JP have some issues to work out if anything. We also have to worry about

1.A Free Agent SP
2.SU Man if Gibby/JP can't decide on League / Accardo
3.Middle infielder (Adam Kennedy/Don't know why we need Julio Lugo)

Both Lily and Hillenbrand seem to be bounded to the Yanks and Zaun might go to them or the Red Sox as a "backup" as well as Molina. Spier has gone to the Angels but for what purpose? They going to rotate him with Shields?

Heres How I see our SP Rotation if we do not sign anyone

1.Roy Hallady
2.AJ Burnett
3.Gustavo Chacin
4.Marcum
5.Towers/Taubenhiem/Mcgowan/Rosario

I personally do not want to see Randy Wolf or Padilla come here. Meche would be ok...Zito is too expensive..but Mulder? I don't know. Its bad enough JP had to strike big on the Big Hurt. I mean

Johnson
Rios
Wells
Thomas
Glaus
Overbay
Hill/Kennedy
Barajas/Phillips/

seems pretty good for a Offensive lineup now that I HOPE they make Thomas a clean up hitter since Glaus has been utterly frustrated as a Clean up hitter throwing his bat / helmet away for striking out or DPing and removing some of the pressure off.

That pitching rotation sucks, Chacin should be #4 because he's wildly inconsistent and him along with Burnett gives me the injury chills.

[SoGood]

anybody know why the barajas deal fell through...?
anyways glad to see that zaun might sign...
zaun > barajas imo even at a higher price

[actyper]

I think the union stepped in and intevened as Barajas took a paycut. Both sides probably felt it wasn't worth all the trouble. Damn unions, agents, by 2010 the avg salary will be $10mil.

[NDman]

Well, looks like it's $7.25M/2 yrs for Zauny

http://tsn.ca/mlb/news_story/?ID=186232&hubname=

Sounds ok considering how crazy this year's market is heading

[Madchester]

Thomas press conference now available:

http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/index.jsp?c_id=tor


The Jays also unveiled a new hat. You can't really tell if it's a "T" for Toronto or a "J" for Jays...

[Rocketo]

Well, looks like it's $7.25M/2 yrs for Zauny

http://tsn.ca/mlb/news_story/?ID=186232&hubname=

Sounds ok considering how crazy this year's market is heading

yeah it's absolutely nuts..to offer a pat borders type catcher who is 37 next year that kind of money he'll never hit more than 15 home runs or bat 300

[Hanniganite]

Thomas press conference now available:

http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/index.jsp?c_id=tor


The Jays also unveiled a new hat. You can't really tell if it's a "T" for Toronto or a "J" for Jays...

Looks like a T...don't like it.

[rdtx2002]

maybe Lily will re-sign

[NDman]

Some tidbits on Barajas' negotiation collapse.

... from Rotoworld.com

According to FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal, Rod Barajas' negotiations with the Jays fell apart when he switched agents with the intention of asking for more money.
Both bad ideas. Barajas switched agents from Gregg Clifton to Dan Lozano, presumably after learning his two-year deal with the Jays would pay him $5.25 million. Now the Jays are going to re-sign Gregg Zaun, and Barajas may have to settle for a reserve job elsewhere unless the Phillies or Giants want him.

Can you say "Oops"?

[gordholio]

Glad they got Zaun back. I'd never heard of the other guy before the supposed deal.

[actyper]

maybe Lily will re-sign

Dodgers signed Randy Wolf for $8mil. Looks like Lilly will get approx $10 then.

[Ogata]

anybody know why the barajas deal fell through...?
anyways glad to see that zaun might sign...
zaun > barajas imo even at a higher price

http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20061128&content_id=1746971&vkey=pr_tor&fext=.jsp&c_id=tor

Zaun is resigned for $7.25 million for 2 years with an option and the Barajas deal is off! Welcome back Zaunie!!

[spike-spiegel]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6218276
Free-agent catcher Rod Barajas grew uncomfortable signing with the Blue Jays in part because his wife did not want to go to Toronto, according to a source with knowledge of Barajas' thinking. The problem with Barajas' decision is that he now figures to end up as a backup catching 40 to 50 games instead of making 130 starts as an everyday player.

Ouch. Less money and a wife that doesn't want to come to Toronto = no go. It has to be lots MORE money that would convince the wife to come up here. I think now Barajas = backup :lol:

He might get same money for backup but I wonder if he'll blame his wife for not being to play everyday.

Oh well, Zaun back and it wasn't ridiculous (2/$10M). JP got catcher solved now to concentrate on pitching pitching.

Meche at Leafs game, pulling the AJ Burnett strategy. Take them out to see other Toronto sports team, hope they used Doc to reel him again too. Lots of people say Meche is this year's Burnett. 28 years old, stuff, underachiever, overpaying. Sounds like exactly what JP might do. If possible, Meche AND Lilly? Solid rotation, no doubt. Expensive as hell though, although Lilly is not commanding a five year contract.

[Hanniganite]

Jays are going for an all-righty team! Looks like Overbay and Zaun will be the only regulars who can bat from the left. Chacin as the only lefty in the rotation (doubt Lilly comes back but who knows). At least the BP's got Tallet/Downs/Romero/BJ from the left side.

[spike-spiegel]

Jays are going for an all-righty team! Looks like Overbay and Zaun will be the only regulars who can bat from the left. Chacin as the only lefty in the rotation (doubt Lilly comes back but who knows). At least the BP's got Tallet/Downs/Romero/BJ from the left side.

That's what I'm worried about too. With Cat gone, bench has no lefty either. We've become the opposite of the 2006 Mets. Kennedy would have been a nice fit and a lefty, but that would have made Hill the SS for certain four years. Plus, he turned down more money to go to STL.

Now, Durham, Counsell, Marcus Giles? Pitching first of course. Meche, Lilly, Mulder?

Lefty pitching will be trouble too, Yanks and Sox are always stacked with lefty hitting.

Things sure would be different now if Rogers put the money in BEFORE Delgado left. Ah, hindsight.

[Hanniganite]

That's what I'm worried about too. With Cat gone, bench has no lefty either. We've become the opposite of the 2006 Mets. Kennedy would have been a nice fit and a lefty, but that would have made Hill the SS for certain four years. Plus, he turned down more money to go to STL.

Now, Durham, Counsell, Marcus Giles? Pitching first of course. Meche, Lilly, Mulder?

Lefty pitching will be trouble too, Yanks and Sox are always stacked with lefty hitting.


Who wouldn't wanna play for the champs?

Just did a quick lookie at last year's stats...Jays hit .280 as a team against RHP and .297 against LHP. Only Rios/Overbay hit righties better than lefties...Reed Johnson was pretty even with both. Someone like Glaus has a pretty big drop off. It'll be interesting to see their lineup...I think they'll be alright. Too many good hitters for the offense to falter consistently.

I wonder where Lind fits in? He's a left but I don't think riding the pine will do him much good. What do you do? Platoon him with OF and 1B? Too bad he's not a 2B and none of the other Jays can play 2B.

[Rocketo]

im thinkin the jays can pull off a trade...vernon wells for a-rod...i think they have had talks with vernon and he probably wanted 18 M per season...now get this..the yanks only pay A-Rod in the neighbourhood of 13-15 million per year because they suckered texas to pay 100 million of his unpaid salary...now if we can get them to pay another 50 million he could be even more cheaper...it solves ur shortstop situation...i always thought A-rod was a great shortstop he has the gold gloves to prove it...and move aaron hill to 2nd...that way rios gets centre which u know he can play and you don't lose production...if anything you gain more...imagine having a lineup like this

johnson
Rios
A-Rod
Thomas
Glauss
Overbay
Zaun
Hill
Lind

[Hanniganite]

Wells for Michael Young!

[NDman]

Wells for Michael Young!

That'll make 2 very unhappy players

[Hanniganite]

Now, Durham, Counsell, Marcus Giles? Pitching first of course. Meche, Lilly, Mulder?


Counsell to Milwaukee: 2/$6mil.

[Tofu Drift Shinji]

I'm surprised no one mentioned Zito in the last couple of pages. I'd be stoked if we signed Barry; we'd have 4 experienced starters (Doc, Burnett, Zito, Gus), and we could maybe pick up a journeyman or throw in a young arm in development in the #5 slot.

Zito is a proven winner (102-63 lifetime W/L) and JP might be able to use his Oakland connection. He's going to command more coin than Lilly, but at least he's not a lifetime .500 pitcher.

[spike-spiegel]

I'm surprised no one mentioned Zito in the last couple of pages. I'd be stoked if we signed Barry; we'd have 4 experienced starters (Doc, Burnett, Zito, Gus), and we could maybe pick up a journeyman or throw in a young arm in development in the #5 slot.

Zito is a proven winner (102-63 lifetime W/L) and JP might be able to use his Oakland connection. He's going to command more coin than Lilly, but at least he's not a lifetime .500 pitcher.


I always felt Zito is overrated. People have been saying his stuff is declining too. He is durable, logs huge innings, and gives you a chance to compete. But he's not overpowering and is going to get ace-type money. Since his Cy Young, he seems like he is on the decline from excellent to good. He's pitched his whole career in a pitcher's ballpark in the AL West. He says he wants to go to New York, so I'm banking Mets get him. Do they ever need him. Yanks get Igawa (writers says he mid-to-backend rotation or even "stuff that should be in the NL").

Minny made the best move to lock up Santana, he could command $20 million probably. Best pitcher in the world and a lefty.

[Hanniganite]

Ken Rosenthal reporting the Jays have signed SS Royce Clayton to 1/$1.5mil...it looks like it's purely a defensive move. Veteran shortstop with a career .974 fielding percentage but gives pretty much nothing offensively. Another righty too...

I dunno...I guess he's slightly better offensively than Mac/Adams? If you want defensive, McDonald's fine...a platoon of McDonald/Adams wouldn't be much worse than Clayton...and not like he was cheaper than those 2.

[spike-spiegel]

Ken Rosenthal reporting the Jays have signed SS Royce Clayton to 1/$1.5mil...it looks like it's purely a defensive move. Veteran shortstop with a career .974 fielding percentage but gives pretty much nothing offensively. Another righty too...

I dunno...I guess he's [i]slightly[i] better offensively than Mac/Adams? If you want defensive, McDonald's fine...a platoon of McDonald/Adams wouldn't be much worse than Clayton...and not like he was cheaper than those 2.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6221264
Clayton will provide veteran presence and stability, but no longer is an elite defender — he had the third-lowest zone rating among the 15 qualifying National League shortstops last season.

Declining zone rating, field pct, range factor? Hmmm... is this an improvement on Johnnie Mac? For a million more, the bat is a bit better than Mac. Don't mind it though, they needed another IF anyways. Short cheap one-year deal so they didn't have to be tied into a three/four deal (like Alex Gonzalez and Kennedy). This allows room for a premier SS via free agency or trade next year or farm system (don't see one) or a Russ Adams re-emergence. I'm sure JP would rather save on the $1.5 on a temp solution than $3-4 for pitching.

Mac vs Clayton
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?c_id=mlb&section3=2&statSet3=1&sortByStat=FPCT&statType=3&timeFrame=1&timeSubFrame=2006&baseballScope=mlb&prevPage3=2&readBoxes=true&sitSplit=&venueID=&subScope=pos&teamPosCode=6&box74=XXXX112381cin6&box85=XXXX150348tor6&compare.x=28&compare.y=10
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?compare.x=&box6=XXXX150348XXXX&c_id=mlb&section1=1&statSet1=1&statType=1&sortByStat=AVG&timeFrame=1&timeSubFrame=2006&baseballScope=mlb&isCompare=true&sitSplit=&venueID=&subScope=pos&teamPosCode=6&box1=XXXX112381cin6&checkBoxTotal=0&playerLocator=mcdonald

30 doubles though! Not bad. 10-year full-time vet versus Mac's 7-year backup experience. So some intangibles as well. Mac is slick on the field but should be a career backup, and I'm glad he will be for Toronto.

[Tofu Drift Shinji]

Now the waiting game for a pitcher.

[will games]

JP was at the Leafs game yesterday with Meche

Somethings up :D

[SoGood]

Thomas press conference now available:

http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/index.jsp?c_id=tor


The Jays also unveiled a new hat. You can't really tell if it's a "T" for Toronto or a "J" for Jays...

looks like a cursive T...
not feeling it...
we should have secondary logo like what the leafs have the "TML" logo
we should make a TBJ or TJ logo and make that into the logo for the 2nd hat.

[gstrgreg]

meche vs lilly (last season)

meche RHP:
ERA 4.48 WHIP 1.43
11-8, 186.2 IP, 156 K

lilly LHP:
ERA 4.31 WHIP 1.43
15-13, 181.2 IP, 160 K

lilly has slight edge in injury history.. both pitchers logged 120+ innings in last 4 seasons
they have similar stats.. lilly is LHP which is more valuable
bottom line will come down to the $$

[Hanniganite]

meche vs lilly (last season)

meche RHP:
ERA 4.48 WHIP 1.43
11-8, 186.2 IP, 156 K

lilly LHP:
ERA 4.31 WHIP 1.43
15-13, 181.2 IP, 160 K

lilly has slight edge in injury history.. both pitchers logged 120+ innings in last 4 seasons
they have similar stats.. lilly is LHP which is more valuable
bottom line will come down to the $$

I recently went through both their career stats and they're pretty even too. Lilly's advantage is that he's a lefty while Meche is a couple years younger. I think it'll just come down to whoever's more affordable (provided there aren't others in the picture).

[NDman]

I'm surprised no one mentioned Zito in the last couple of pages. I'd be stoked if we signed Barry; we'd have 4 experienced starters (Doc, Burnett, Zito, Gus), and we could maybe pick up a journeyman or throw in a young arm in development in the #5 slot.


I wouldn't be surprised that Boras strategically plays down everything with Zito at the moment. First he had to settle with Matsuzaka and creat as much as as he possibly could (did he ever do a fine job on that!). Once he's signed, you'll hear plenty about Zito. But I suspect that it may come even later than that since Yankees just bidded (also) stupid money on Igawa. Boras is honing is knife at the background as the potential signing of Igawa will be a benchmark for Boras to push Zito's worth to a whole new territory.

That said, it's Boras and a crazy market, JP should just pass

[almostfreeman]

Ken Rosenthal reporting the Jays have signed SS Royce Clayton to 1/$1.5mil...it looks like it's purely a defensive move. Veteran shortstop with a career .974 fielding percentage but gives pretty much nothing offensively. Another righty too...

I dunno...I guess he's slightly better offensively than Mac/Adams? If you want defensive, McDonald's fine...a platoon of McDonald/Adams wouldn't be much worse than Clayton...and not like he was cheaper than those 2.

Royce can't play every day .... cheap but puzzling signing :confused:

[Ogata]

Sportsnet Poll last night said that 33% should sign Jeff Suppan. I would love to have Mulder here too but depends. Clayton I agree...VERY puzzling.

[gstrgreg]

Royce can't play every day .... cheap but puzzling signing :confused:

i think we are looking at a platoon situation between Royce Clayton and Johnny Mac at SS.. this will probably just be a stopgap solution until we can get someone better next year (come onnnn michael young :lol: )

[actyper]

I'd rather have Glaus than Clayton at SS, thats how much I like this signing. :evil:

[kevin01]

JP was at the Leafs game yesterday with Meche

Somethings up :D

yeah and they even put Future Blue Jay with him and JP focused on the screen. Thomas was also used to persuade him.

[spike-spiegel]

I'd rather have Glaus than Clayton at SS, thats how much I like this signing. :evil:

i think we are looking at a platoon situation between Royce Clayton and Johnny Mac at SS.. this will probably just be a stopgap solution until we can get someone better next year (come onnnn michael young :lol: )

I think Clayton will be the regular SS in the year eventually. The SS pool was deep full decent, rather Jays sign a short cheap deal than overpay for a Lugo.

Plus, after Thomas and Zaun signing, all money that can be saved should be saved on getting two pitchers.

[canabiz]

Where are all the Johnny Mac backers now ?

I have full respect to J. Mac but i just don't see him as an everyday starter for this squad.

Props to J.P. (and you know I am not his biggest fan) for signing Clayton.

[gstrgreg]

if anyone cares:

jays signed Jason Phillips.. 1 yr, 500k with some incentives
he is going to back up Zaunie and Overbay

[canabiz]

Teddy Lilly is reportedly close to signing a 4 year, 37 mil contract with the Cubbies

To quote Marty York's column *The baseball owners have lost their mind*

Sad but true.

[thelefteyeguy]

Teddy Lilly is reportedly close to signing a 4 year, 37 mil contract with the Cubbies

To quote Marty York's column *The baseball owners have lost their mind*

Sad but true.

omg....9+mil /yr for Lilly WTF :confused:

he's at best a 3rd starter on a rotation...my god

if you have a child...prime him to be a pitcher...even medicore ones get a windfall!

[kevin01]

Teddy Lilly is reportedly close to signing a 4 year, 37 mil contract with the Cubbies

To quote Marty York's column *The baseball owners have lost their mind*

Sad but true.

seems like every1 in every league is getting over paid. Hockey, and now baseball. MLB needs a salary cap.

[spike-spiegel]

omg....9+mil /yr for Lilly WTF :confused:

he's at best a 3rd starter on a rotation...my god

if you have a child...prime him to be a pitcher...even medicore ones get a windfall!

make the child a lefty too, those are money in the bank.


Teddy Lilly is reportedly close to signing a 4 year, 37 mil contract with the Cubbies

To quote Marty York's column *The baseball owners have lost their mind*

Sad but true.


Better Cubs than Yankees. I dont think Jays can afford both Lilly and Meche so I think they should concentrate on Meche. Lilly seems to gain slightly more interest. Lilly is a Red Sox killer and I think he's prime for a 15-17 season soon. Hope Jays dont strike out on both pitchers... then it might Redman and Suppan as fallback. And if those dont work out, I think the possibility of Wells being traded will increase (which is not necessarily a bad thing).

[rdtx2002]

omg....9+mil /yr for Lilly WTF :confused:

he's at best a 3rd starter on a rotation...my god

if you have a child...prime him to be a pitcher...even medicore ones get a windfall!

actually.. 9 million is fair market value for Ted Lily... why?

1. Left Handed Pitcher
2. 15 game winner (.500 pitcher with 10+ wins)

[gstrgreg]

Better Cubs than Yankees. I dont think Jays can afford both Lilly and Meche so I think they should concentrate on Meche. Lilly seems to gain slightly more interest. Lilly is a Red Sox killer and I think he's prime for a 15-17 season soon. Hope Jays dont strike out on both pitchers... then it might Redman and Suppan as fallback. And if those dont work out, I think the possibility of Wells being traded will increase (which is not necessarily a bad thing).

lets not forget that Lilly and Gibbons have history.. and not of the particularly pleasant variety - even though they both say they are over it.. you never know

trading Wells is an option.. though JP is still tightlipped about that
i agree though - i would rather see the Jays get someone in return for Wells rather than just let him walk away

[canabiz]

actually.. 9 million is fair market value for Ted Lily... why?

1. Left Handed Pitcher
2. 15 game winner (.500 pitcher with 10+ wins)

rdtx2002, I would like to remind you that Ted Lilly has never had more than 15 wins in a season until this past season, which also happen to be his contract year :)

We have had a few discussions regarding Ted in last year's MLB thread so I don't want to beat up on a dead horse, I guess you all know my feelings about Ted but the facts are there for everyone to see

2002: Teddy went 5-7

2003: Teddy went 12-10

2004: Teddy went 12-10

2005: Teddy went 10-11

2006: Teddy went 15-13

His durability and attitude have also been questionable at times. But again, I am not spending any money to buy him so I couldn't really care less, just like to point out a few stats.

[rdtx2002]

rdtx2002, I would like to remind you that Ted Lilly has never had more than 15 wins in a season until this past season, which also happen to be his contract year :)

We have had a few discussions regarding Ted in last year's MLB thread so I don't want to beat up on a dead horse, I guess you all know my feelings about Ted but the facts are there for everyone to see

2002: Teddy went 5-7

2003: Teddy went 12-10

2004: Teddy went 12-10

2005: Teddy went 10-11

2006: Teddy went 15-13

His durability and attitude have also been questionable at times. But again, I am not spending any money to buy him so I couldn't really care less, just like to point out a few stats.

does not change the fact that he is a 10+ game winner that just so happens to be a sought-after lefty .. you know and I know thaT LHPs are in demand in the league.. so it isn't a surprise that Lilly is being offer 9million.. heck El Duque got like what?.. 6-7 million? and he is like 10 million years old

[Madchester]

W-L or Winning Pct. is not really the best measure of a pitcher, since it's dependent on the the rest of the team in terms of field, run support, etc.

[gstrgreg]

W-L or Winning Pct. is not really the best measure of a pitcher, since it's dependent on the the rest of the team in terms of field, run support, etc.

agreed. thinks like ERA, WHIP and K/BB ratio actually tell you how good the pitcher is.

burnett for example.. still about .500 winning % but we all know hes probably got some of the best stuff in the AL - hes got a 3.77 ERA career and almost one K per inning pitched

[theinfamous]

Teddy Lilly is reportedly close to signing a 4 year, 37 mil contract with the Cubbies

To quote Marty York's column *The baseball owners have lost their mind*

Sad but true.

Marty York still has a column? That dude has absolutely no credibility and seems to make up the majority of his stuff.

[spike-spiegel]

does not change the fact that he is a 10+ game winner that just so happens to be a sought-after lefty .. you know and I know thaT LHPs are in demand in the league.. so it isn't a surprise that Lilly is being offer 9million.. heck El Duque got like what?.. 6-7 million? and he is like 10 million years old

El Duque is older than how much he makes. :lol:


rdtx2002, I would like to remind you that Ted Lilly has never had more than 15 wins in a season until this past season, which also happen to be his contract year :)

We have had a few discussions regarding Ted in last year's MLB thread so I don't want to beat up on a dead horse, I guess you all know my feelings about Ted but the facts are there for everyone to see

2002: Teddy went 5-7

2003: Teddy went 12-10

2004: Teddy went 12-10

2005: Teddy went 10-11

2006: Teddy went 15-13

His durability and attitude have also been questionable at times. But again, I am not spending any money to buy him so I couldn't really care less, just like to point out a few stats.

The pitchers' market is not too heavy on wins and losses. Tons of .500 or sub pitchers get big money (ie. Burnett). Scouts do reports on how good their stuff looks, can they pitching their division (Lilly won 15 in the AL East is like 17-18 in the NL), and if they think their pitching coach can make them better.


lets not forget that Lilly and Gibbons have history.. and not of the particularly pleasant variety - even though they both say they are over it.. you never know

trading Wells is an option.. though JP is still tightlipped about that
i agree though - i would rather see the Jays get someone in return for Wells rather than just let him walk away


I think it was a heat of the moment thing. I dont think they fought, came very close though. I think it is over, Lilly likes being a Jay but I think money is the biggest factor. I can see someone like the Cubs and Yanks offering 4/$42M. I cannot see the Jays able to doing that AND go after Meche. Lilly will get a couple million more than Meche, I think.

[kevin01]

Is there any pitcher who you think is on the trade market. Im thinking a Reed Johnson plus prospect or McGowan for a good pitcher. I want JP to get pitchers through trade, because there's not a good market right now.

[gstrgreg]

Is there any pitcher who you think is on the trade market. Im thinking a Reed Johnson plus prospect or McGowan for a good pitcher. I want JP to get pitchers through trade, because there's not a good market right now.


If we were to trade for a pitcher, it wouldn't be with Johnson or McGowan.
Johnson is a guy who doesn't get much respect outside of the city - kind of like Kevin Youklis. That being said he won't get too much in return. Johnson is also a big part of the team and I would be really pissed if we sent him away.
As for McGowan, JP won't trade him because he's probably got the most potential out of any of our minor league pitchers. I can't see JP dealing anyone from our farm system (we are not exactly brimming with talent anyways)
Vernon Wells is probably the most likely candidate for trade since he has a very high value and his contract is going to expire and we won't be able to resign him.

[wesleyw]

Remember last year when everyone was whining about how BJ and AJ signed such big contracts? How about now when Lilly/Meche are demanding salaries in the $9-10 million per year range?

[SoGood]

Is there any pitcher who you think is on the trade market. Im thinking a Reed Johnson plus prospect or McGowan for a good pitcher. I want JP to get pitchers through trade, because there's not a good market right now.

i highly doubt that we would trade reed johnson with cat going back to texas and perhaps vernon on the trade block, reed johnson looks to be an important piece in the outfield

[spike-spiegel]

i highly doubt that we would trade reed johnson with cat going back to texas and perhaps vernon on the trade block, reed johnson looks to be an important piece in the outfield

Reed Johnson is what JP and Jays want in every player. Affordable, hard-nosed/playing, productive. No way Reed would be traded especially since he is the one who would replace Wells if/when he leaves. I think Jays like Rios in RF. With Wells, Jays have 3 players who can play centre and probably the best outfield in the league.

Wells' future could be determined this week at the meetings. If JP strikes out on pitching, a trade might be imminent. If JP makes some nice moves, maybe convince Wells to re-sign now or next year.

[Moosebox]

The Star has their season ticket sale up again (sorry if this was already posted, I didn't read through the thread)

81 games for $95 (comes to $119 with the extra charges)

https://secure.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/tor/ticketing/star_season_pass_form.jsp

Not bad if you live downtown, unfortunately I don't so its not really worth the gas and parking or train ride to the park...

Lets go blue jays!

[spike-spiegel]

The Star has their season ticket sale up again (sorry if this was already posted, I didn't read through the thread)

81 games for $95 (comes to $119 with the extra charges)

https://secure.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/tor/ticketing/star_season_pass_form.jsp

Not bad if you live downtown, unfortunately I don't so its not really worth the gas and parking or train ride to the park...

Lets go blue jays!


Of note, I read that the season tickets and all tickets for next season does not have Vernon Wells printed on them. Tickets come with one picture of a player on them, I think I read Glaus, Doc, Ryan, Burnett, Rios are the five this year.

So the Jays management are well-aware that Wells could not be with the Jays. All of a sudden the face of the franchise for hte past few years is no longer on the tickets.

[afong56]

Reed Johnson is what JP and Jays want in every player. Affordable, hard-nosed/playing, productive. No way Reed would be traded especially since he is the one who would replace Wells if/when he leaves. I think Jays like Rios in RF. With Wells, Jays have 3 players who can play centre and probably the best outfield in the league.


even better than the yankees? matsui-damon-abreu?

i'd say matsui is better than johnson, wells beats damon, and abreu is who the jays hope rios will become in a few years.

[actyper]

and abreu is who the jays hope rios will become in a few years.

a fat lard? :razz:

[Hanniganite]

Of note, I read that the season tickets and all tickets for next season does not have Vernon Wells printed on them. Tickets come with one picture of a player on them, I think I read Glaus, Doc, Ryan, Burnett, Rios are the five this year.

So the Jays management are well-aware that Wells could not be with the Jays. All of a sudden the face of the franchise for hte past few years is no longer on the tickets.

Not just that, he's missing in ads. The past few weeks or whenver they started running Jays ads in the Star, Wells wasn't one of the players featured.

[afong56]

a fat lard? :razz:

ha ha ha. . .fat lard?

abreu has averaged over 30 steals/season for the last six years
plus averaged 100 runs and 100 rbi during that stretch, while hitting close to, or better than .300 and slugging 20-30 homers each season.

show me one player on the jays who has come close to that.

[spike-spiegel]

even better than the yankees? matsui-damon-abreu?

i'd say matsui is better than johnson, wells beats damon, and abreu is who the jays hope rios will become in a few years.


Well, I think it's fairer to compare Johnson to Damon. Matsui to Wells, Rios to Abreu.

Johnson has potential to be Damon in his prime. I mean, Johnson just started to be an everyday player last year. Johnson's defense is obviously better than rag-arm Damon. Wells is a better player than Matsui. Rios has potential to be something like an Abreu.

Basically, would take the Jays or NYY outfield right now?

[afong56]

Well, I think it's fairer to compare Johnson to Damon. Matsui to Wells, Rios to Abreu.

Johnson has potential to be Damon in his prime. I mean, Johnson just started to be an everyday player last year. Johnson's defense is obviously better than rag-arm Damon. Wells is a better player than Matsui. Rios has potential to be something like an Abreu.

Basically, would take the Jays or NYY outfield right now?

okay, let's use your comparison:

would i take damon over johnson? yes.
i'm not sure what you mean by everyday player, since johnson played in fewer games last year (134) than the previous two (141, 142). he did have a breakout year, but in terms of production, still much lower than damon. johnson's 86 runs last season was good, but damon's lowest run total in the last nine seasons was 101. stolen base totals are waaaay in damon's favour, as are rbi numbers, home runs, and even hitting percentage (johnson's average last year was a full 50 points higher than what he averaged the previous two years). furthermore, while johnson is decent defensively in left, damon plays centrefield, a prestige defensive position.

wells versus matsui? i'm a big fan of wells, he's a legit five-tool player coming into his prime. i'm not sure the matsui matchup is the most natural fit. the comparison to abreu makes more sense, imho. however, matsui is not chopped liver. he's decent defensively, and is a hell of a clutch hitter. he hits for power, can average 100 runs and rbi, while hitting .300
wells might best matsui in terms of defense and steals, but matsui has him matched or beaten in all of the hitting categories, imho. would i take matsui over wells? probably not, but a younger matsui? maybe.

abreu over rios, hands down. in order to match abreu, rios would have to increase his run production by about 40 runs, his rbi production by 20, double his steals totals, double his home run production, and raise his career batting average by about 20 points. could he do it? still possible, but time's running out. he'll be 26 yrs old in spring training, and his breakout year hasn't happened yet. 26-27 is when most players explode, so it'll have to happen soon. as for now, i'll take abreu without thinking twice.

in terms of fantasy draft outfielders, i think abreu gets picked in the top 10, wells too (he might slip a little past 10). matsui and damon are top 20, maybe 25. rios maybe top 30-35 (on a flier), johnson top 45-50

to answer your question, i'd take the nyy outfield, in a heartbeat

[gstrgreg]

i would agree with the final conclusion.. though i think the two outfields matchup pretty closely to me

there is no way Johnson is better than Damon at this time. They both have good avgs. They are both fast, but Reed doesn't know how to steal. Defensively, its difficult to match them up as playing CF is different than LF. Overall, the numbers favour Damon - hes just a better player (though I really do like Johnson better)

Wells > Matsui .. they have similar hitting numbers (Wells has more steals) but as mentioned previously, Matsui isn't getting younger and Wells is still improving.

Rios showed signs of breaking out last season.. he wouldve had a phenomenal season continuing at the pace he was going before he got that leg infection. Abreu is still huge, though I would expect a drop-off this season (HR saw sharp decline last season)

[spike-spiegel]

Well Johnson hadn't gotten as much at-bats as he did in 2003. His games played would be higher because he was in platoon most of the time, so defensive switches count. I agree, I would take Damon now over Johnson but not by as much as a margin as you. I think stats like runs are dependent on the rest of the lineup for leadoff men. So Yankees vs Blue Jays lineup...

For career numbers, it's hard to argue one guy's career numbers over another when one is a 11-year veteran and one 4-year player who just became an everyday. I think Johnson has potential to consistently hit with a .320 while Damon should be on the decline now.

And like I said, Rios or Johnson can play CF, just Wells is the best at it. Johnson is good (not decent) at outfield, while Damon has the speed but no arm, prestige position or not... Jays have the best defensive outfield hands down right now.


Matsui is above average in outfield. Not as good as what Yankees media say he is but not awful. I don't know about Matsui beating Wells in all offensive categories. I think Matsui has a better OBP but Wells has him beat in power and average. Though, as you pointed out, barely.


Rios and Abreu is an interesting comparison. Rios has the potential to be somewhat of a Wells-type, although I think better OBP but less power. Abreu is a OBP machine. Power was overrated. Rios can be an Abreu-type minus the OBP madness but add better defense, speed, and batting average.

Also... Johnson, Rios, Wells versus Damon, Abreu, Matsui are good comparisons as well because I think they are the prototypical #1 through 3 batters on most teams. I would take the Jays outfield because they are younger with higher potential which could be better than the three Yankees. So Johnson-Wells-Rios together can be better than the current version of Matsui-Damon-Abreu.


okay, let's use your comparison:

would i take damon over johnson? yes.
i'm not sure what you mean by everyday player, since johnson played in fewer games last year (134) than the previous two (141, 142). he did have a breakout year, but in terms of production, still much lower than damon. johnson's 86 runs last season was good, but damon's lowest run total in the last nine seasons was 101. stolen base totals are waaaay in damon's favour, as are rbi numbers, home runs, and even hitting percentage (johnson's average last year was a full 50 points higher than what he averaged the previous two years). furthermore, while johnson is decent defensively in left, damon plays centrefield, a prestige defensive position.

wells versus matsui? i'm a big fan of wells, he's a legit five-tool player coming into his prime. i'm not sure the matsui matchup is the most natural fit. the comparison to abreu makes more sense, imho. however, matsui is not chopped liver. he's decent defensively, and is a hell of a clutch hitter. he hits for power, can average 100 runs and rbi, while hitting .300
wells might best matsui in terms of defense and steals, but matsui has him matched or beaten in all of the hitting categories, imho. would i take matsui over wells? probably not, but a younger matsui? maybe.

abreu over rios, hands down. in order to match abreu, rios would have to increase his run production by about 40 runs, his rbi production by 20, double his steals totals, double his home run production, and raise his career batting average by about 20 points. could he do it? still possible, but time's running out. he'll be 26 yrs old in spring training, and his breakout year hasn't happened yet. 26-27 is when most players explode, so it'll have to happen soon. as for now, i'll take abreu without thinking twice.

in terms of fantasy draft outfielders, i think abreu gets picked in the top 10, wells too (he might slip a little past 10). matsui and damon are top 20, maybe 25. rios maybe top 30-35 (on a flier), johnson top 45-50

to answer your question, i'd take the nyy outfield, in a heartbeat

[spike-spiegel]

Nothing new from the winter meetings today, unsurprisngly. But if Padilla signs for 3/$33M like it is rumoured, Lilly and Meche can match that at least which is going to put a lot of teams out of the running.

I think Zito will hit the $100M mark.

[canabiz]

Jays is ready to match Cubbies' offer for Teddy Lilly

4 year at 10 mil per

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/baseball/story/2006/12/05/lilly-bluejays.html

People say it's waters under the bridge between Teddy and Gibby but I don't know man.

[rdtx2002]

if Ted can win 15 games again.. ... we shall see.

[Corizzle]

I do not think Lilly is worth 10 mil per or a 4 year contract, especially when we are already paying both Doc and Burnett that type of money.

Lilly is an injury risk and although he won 15 games last year, he has never been that great of a pitcher stats wise

[rdtx2002]

I do not think Lilly is worth 10 mil per or a 4 year contract, especially when we are already paying both Doc and Burnett that type of money.

Lilly is an injury risk and although he won 15 games last year, he has never been that great of a pitcher stats wise

how is Ted Lilly an injury risk? AJ and Doc are far more injury prone than Ted Lilly

only the year before Ted only started 25 games.. but 3 of the last 4 years Ted has started 32

he is not a great stats guy.. but he had the year when he counted.. 15 wins.. and a lefty as well

[Corizzle]

how is Ted Lilly an injury risk? AJ and Doc are far more injury prone than Ted Lilly

only the year before Ted only started 25 games.. but 3 of the last 4 years Ted has started 32

he is not a great stats guy.. but he had the year when he counted.. 15 wins.. and a lefty as well

His ERA has been above 4 for all but 2 of his years in the league

[SoGood]

i wouldn't spend 10 mill on a middle of the rotation pitcher, even if there are limited free agents.
i'd rather use that money to try and keep wells here.

[rdtx2002]

His ERA has been above 4 for all but 2 of his years in the league

how many pitchers have been under 4 recently?

around 4 is actually considered decent now... he ain't no Halladay/Pedro/sanata/etc 2.50

[rdtx2002]

i wouldn't spend 10 mill on a middle of the rotation pitcher, even if there are limited free agents.
i'd rather use that money to try and keep wells here.

who says they don't have the money to also keep Wells

even if you have all the money in the world.. if Wells says no.. it doesn't matter the price

[Smashy]

how many pitchers have been under 4 recently?

around 4 is actually considered decent now... he ain't no Halladay/Pedro/sanata/etc 2.50

Not even Halladay man. Anything close to 2.50 is extremely special and only Pedro, Santana, and maybe a couple others do that regularly. Halladay is more of a 3.10 guy with some really sweet numbers in a shortened 2005.

[spike-spiegel]

Not even Halladay man. Anything close to 2.50 is extremely special and only Pedro, Santana, and maybe a couple others do that regularly. Halladay is more of a 3.10 guy with some really sweet numbers in a shortened 2005.

Yup, anything below 3.50 is pretty special especially in the AL. Anything below 3.00 is rare. Halladay is a more 3.10-3.30 guy. Having a #2 starter at around 4.00 is pretty good, and #3 at around 4.50.

[SoGood]

who says they don't have the money to also keep Wells

even if you have all the money in the world.. if Wells says no.. it doesn't matter the price

i'm pretty sure the jays have a budget, we're not the yankees or the red sox who can spend 130+ million on salary per yr. and yes wells could say no to the jays offer, all i'm saying is using that 10 mill or so a yr to help re-sign wells is a better move than spending the 10 mill on a middle of the rotation pitcher

[Hanniganite]

Jays need to have their own Verlander or Anibel (sp?) Sanchez...or some young guy to just step up and deliver. Don't want to spend so much on mediocrity...but the Jays want/have to win now so it's hard to take a chance on unproven talents.

[canabiz]

Jays need to have their own Verlander or Anibel (sp?) Sanchez...or some young guy to just step up and deliver. Don't want to spend so much on mediocrity...but the Jays want/have to win now so it's hard to take a chance on unproven talents.

That's the word I am looking for

Repeat after me: Ted Lilly is a mediocre pitcher who happened to have a decent year in his contract year.

[will games]

Eric Gagne likes the Jays...Man I hope he signs for cheap...Nice setup man for BJ if hes healthy:)

[spike-spiegel]

Eric Gagne likes the Jays...Man I hope he signs for cheap...Nice setup man for BJ if hes healthy:)

I'd give Gagne a one-year/$4-5M with incentives. And that's ONLY if Jays lose out on the mediocre pitching spree. He'll be a good setup man and it'll be good for marketing.

Looks like Red Sox have signed Lugo and Drew. Although that is a lot of money perhaps too much, that is a good lineup especially with Manny. Red Sox can never complain about not spending like the Yankees this offseason.

I think Jays are going to lose out on Lilly but will be closing in on Meche. Seems big-spenders Cubs and Yanks are on Lilly.

But I'd really like to see Wells signed or traded. Don't like this "win with him in 2007 and try to re-sign him when he's a free agent" thing.

Problem is Jays don't have Liriano-Weaver-Verlander like pitching prospect. I think the best one was McGowan but he is a question mark now.

[actyper]

No Lilly

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2688676

[NDman]

No Lilly

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2688676

Just read that. Too bad. Time to move on. At least they are not dangling about it and made it clear. Time for JP to overpay Meche (yikes!)

[spike-spiegel]

Just read that. Too bad. Time to move on. At least they are not dangling about it and made it clear. Time for JP to overpay Meche (yikes!)


Let's hope Lilly goes to the Cubs hand not Yanks.

If Meche doesn't sign, then JP will be in a tight spot.

[NDman]

Oh, and the issue between Lilly and Gibby is a thing of the past? Read between the lines if you would. :D

We're not moving forward with Toronto," O'Brien said. "It had nothing to do with the dollars or a lack of aggressiveness on the part of the Blue Jays. What it boiled down to was Ted decided he would like a change of scenery. He's looking forward to the challenge of trying to win a pennant and a World Series for the Cubs or the Yankees." (from the ESPN article)

[almostfreeman]

Oh, and the issue between Lilly and Gibby is a thing of the past? Read between the lines if you would. :D

(from the ESPN article)


What player in the league wants to pay higher taxes AND play for an unproven manager that conducts himself like he has won more rings than Tony LaRussa. If the Bluejays were to announce Gibbons dismissal it might go further than cash to attract talented players to the team.

[canabiz]

What player in the league wants to pay higher taxes AND play for an unproven manager that conducts himself like he has won more rings than Tony LaRussa. If the Bluejays were to announce Gibbons dismissal it might go further than cash to attract talented players to the team.

Word.

I have said time and again Gibby is the weakest link in this squad. I wouldn't be surprised if he got canned mid-way through next season and/or at the end of next year.

[rdtx2002]

i'm pretty sure the jays have a budget, we're not the yankees or the red sox who can spend 130+ million on salary per yr. and yes wells could say no to the jays offer, all i'm saying is using that 10 mill or so a yr to help re-sign wells is a better move than spending the 10 mill on a middle of the rotation pitcher

you really think so?.. the way JP has been throwing around money.. it seems like the Jays will go over 100 million in salary.

if you don't spend 10 million on a middle of a raotation guy.. who are you going to put there?

Josh Towers?

[rdtx2002]

Just read that. Too bad. Time to move on. At least they are not dangling about it and made it clear. Time for JP to overpay Meche (yikes!)

Meche might actually be good.. he does throw some heat.. unlike Lilly who is a finess pitcher

[skyblue12]

That's the word I am looking for

Repeat after me: Ted Lilly is a mediocre pitcher who happened to have a decent year in his contract year.

i wouldn't say lilly is a mediocre pitcher. he just might be one of those pitchers who are destined to be hovering around .500 for their whole careers

[rdtx2002]

i wouldn't say lilly is a mediocre pitcher. he just might be one of those pitchers who are destined to be hovering around .500 for their whole careers

and it's not necessarily bad... 32 starts assuming and each time he either gets a win or a loss..

that is 16-16 give or take a few wins and losses.

that is quite reasonable for a 3rd/4th starter.. but too bad.. he is a Cub now.

and to canbiz.. since you hated for the Jays to keep Lilly.. how are you going to shore up the end of the rotation.. all you have now is Doc, AJ, and Chacin.. all the rest are question marks.. and you can't count on the young Jays.. look at how the 5th man in the rotation collectively performed last year and you know WHY the Jays didn't make it any closer to the playoffs.

[spike-spiegel]

and it's not necessarily bad... 32 starts assuming and each time he either gets a win or a loss..

that is 16-16 give or take a few wins and losses.

that is quite reasonable for a 3rd/4th starter.. but too bad.. he is a Cub now.

and to canbiz.. since you hated for the Jays to keep Lilly.. how are you going to shore up the end of the rotation.. all you have now is Doc, AJ, and Chacin.. all the rest are question marks.. and you can't count on the young Jays.. look at how the 5th man in the rotation collectively performed last year and you know WHY the Jays didn't make it any closer to the playoffs.


The reason Jays didn't make it into the playoffs was the performance of the starters who filled in for the injured and the fifth starter. Now without Lilly, Jays have problems with two rotation spots. This will be a big problem.



Word.

I have said time and again Gibby is the weakest link in this squad. I wouldn't be surprised if he got canned mid-way through next season and/or at the end of next year.

I guess Frank Thomas was scared off from Gibbons although it could have been the loads of money. I don't think Gibbons is why Lilly is not returning. The incident might have factor but not the man. I think it has more to do with the Jays drawing the line at 4/$40 and I think Cubs/Yankees are willing to offer 4/$42-44 and a chance to play with a prestige franchise.

[rdtx2002]

we signed Matt Stairs... i guess he is the 4th outfielder

[SoGood]

you really think so?.. the way JP has been throwing around money.. it seems like the Jays will go over 100 million in salary.

if you don't spend 10 million on a middle of a raotation guy.. who are you going to put there?

Josh Towers?

josh towers already has an enormous deal...
and i would rather spend the 10 mill else where, yes we need the pitching, but 10 for .500 pitcher even if he is a lefty is too much. i'd rather look for value,
and for our rotation i know we only have 3 legit starters at the moment, and maybe we can plug guys in and out if we don't get another pitcher via free agency.
i really liked what i've seen out of romero last season, plus marcum and mcgowan has show flashes, maybe we should just ride the hot hand when it's their time. i know its not necessarily the best idea for a team trying to contend, but i'd rather do that than over pay somebody who would get me an extra couple wins.

[NDman]

Matt Stairs is close to a deal with Jays according to the Jays site

http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061206&content_id=1752833&vkey=news_tor&fext=.jsp&c_id=tor



Also, Rotoworld reports that Meche is likely to sign with the Cubs!

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/clubhouse_news.aspx?sport=MLB&majteam=SEA


According to the Seattle Post-Intelligencer, free agent Gil Meche likely will sign with the Cubs.
The rumor has been that Meche would pick Toronto, but a member of the Blue Jays said it was Toronto's understanding that Meche would be signing with the Cubs. We're not sure whether this is a sign Ted Lilly is going to end up with the Yankees. The Cubs have been hoping to sign both.

[NDman]

I have a feeling that Lilly is going to sign with the Cubs, and the Yankees will go very hard after Pettitte as he announced that he will play ball instead of retiring for 2007.

[canabiz]

and it's not necessarily bad... 32 starts assuming and each time he either gets a win or a loss..

that is 16-16 give or take a few wins and losses.

that is quite reasonable for a 3rd/4th starter.. but too bad.. he is a Cub now.

and to canbiz.. since you hated for the Jays to keep Lilly.. how are you going to shore up the end of the rotation.. all you have now is Doc, AJ, and Chacin.. all the rest are question marks.. and you can't count on the young Jays.. look at how the 5th man in the rotation collectively performed last year and you know WHY the Jays didn't make it any closer to the playoffs.


rdtx2002, I don't hate Lilly, i gave him a ton of props in last year's thread when he won his fair share of games and even for the Gibby incident. I just don't think he is worth that kind of money and he didn't really make that big an impression during his 5 years with the Jays. Who knows what will happen if he decides to sign with the Jays again. Maybe he will be on fire again, maybe he will revert to the consistently inconsistent Ted that we have known for a good period of time. It's all debatable...all I am saying is perhaps a change of scenery is good for both parties. It's not like we absolutely have to sign Teddy at any cost. There are other options out there.

I wish Teddy all the best well in his future endeavours.

[spike-spiegel]

Looks like Lilly has signed with the Cubs:
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061206&content_id=1752625&vkey=hotstove2006&fext=.jsp

4/$40M + perhaps a $4M signing bonus

Funny quote - "[Lilly] just decided that at this point in his career, he liked the challenge of pitching in the National League," O'Brien said. "He hadn't done that in a long time. Now he has a great opportunity and thinks the National League will be suited to the way he pitches." :lol:


Stairs should be signed soon. Not exactly speed, but his left bat is good for a 4th OF.

Bengie gets a 3/$16M with the Giants. Not bad, good for Bengie.

[B40]

i wouldn't say lilly is a mediocre pitcher. he just might be one of those pitchers who are destined to be hovering around .500 for their whole careers

Joining in this discussion a bit late... but don't forget Lily's also a lefty so he can get more $

[spike-spiegel]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/blogs/baseball
Publicly, J.P. Ricciardi says he believes the Toronto Blue Jays have a shot at signing free-agent Gil Meche. Privately? Sources close to the Blue Jays general manager say he doubts Meche will accept their offer, which is reported to be around $35-million (all figures U.S.) for four years.

Not a bad offer, seems kind of "fair" in this market. I think Meche has to decide between Cubs, Jays, Royals. Something tells me Cubs might be throwing a higher offer at him.

Too bad I doubt Jays can grab Rich Harden from the A's. I think he has ace potential still. Traschel might be okay if he comes cheap. I'm not sure JP is serious when he says Towers and Marcum can be #4 and #5. Towers is a bargain at $2.9M if he can win 8 games... but after a dismal 2-10.

Get ready for the Wells rumours to swirl if Jays cannot land Meche. I rather trade Wells and get some good pitching now than as Blair mentions, Reed Johnson or Adam Lind for lower-tier pitching.

[SoGood]

rdtx2002, I don't hate Lilly, i gave him a ton of props in last year's thread when he won his fair share of games and even for the Gibby incident. I just don't think he is worth that kind of money and he didn't really make that big an impression during his 5 years with the Jays. Who knows what will happen if he decides to sign with the Jays again. Maybe he will be on fire again, maybe he will revert to the consistently inconsistent Ted that we have known for a good period of time. It's all debatable...all I am saying is perhaps a change of scenery is good for both parties. It's not like we absolutely have to sign Teddy at any cost. There are other options out there.

I wish Teddy all the best well in his future endeavours.

thank you, glad somebody else feels that way as well

[rdtx2002]

josh towers already has an enormous deal...
and i would rather spend the 10 mill else where, yes we need the pitching, but 10 for .500 pitcher even if he is a lefty is too much.

so who are you going to get for 10 million?.. please.. gimme the answer.. Lilly is gone.. and Meche most likely will sign elsewhere and he too is a 10 per...

you ain't getting Zito with 10million

i'd rather look for value,
and for our rotation i know we only have 3 legit starters at the moment, and maybe we can plug guys in and out if we don't get another pitcher via free agency.

maybe we can plug guys?.. sorry.. we did that last year and it KILLED us.

i really liked what i've seen out of romero last season, plus marcum and mcgowan has show flashes, maybe we should just ride the hot hand when it's their time. i know its not necessarily the best idea for a team trying to contend, but i'd rather do that than over pay somebody who would get me an extra couple wins.

didn't work last year.. and you want to do this again this year with an additional hole in the pitching staff?

are you kidding me?

[rdtx2002]

rdtx2002, I don't hate Lilly, i gave him a ton of props in last year's thread when he won his fair share of games and even for the Gibby incident. I just don't think he is worth that kind of money and he didn't really make that big an impression during his 5 years with the Jays. Who knows what will happen if he decides to sign with the Jays again. Maybe he will be on fire again, maybe he will revert to the consistently inconsistent Ted that we have known for a good period of time. It's all debatable...all I am saying is perhaps a change of scenery is good for both parties. It's not like we absolutely have to sign Teddy at any cost. There are other options out there.

I wish Teddy all the best well in his future endeavours.

like I asked SoGood.. who are you going to replace Ted Lilly with?.. yes.. Ted Lilly ain't worth 10 million.. was AJ Burnett worth the money last year?.

you have to pay free agents to come to play for you. The market is set this year. A .500 pitcher gets 10 million

what are you going to do now?.. not pay and let there be more holes in the lineup? Are you going to get the stop gap kids (who you can't rely on for an entire year) pitch?. sign Meche to 10 million? (but we can't because he is not 'worth' it according to you)

who the hell cares how much they make as long as they help the team.

[Hanniganite]

Looks like no Meche
http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/article.jsp?content=20061207_094642_4024

He must be getting a lot of $$ because why else would you play for KC?

Do the Jays go after one of those fallback options (Redman and I can't remember who else) or go with young guys, trades...? I'm glad they didn't overpay for Lilly/Meche but now they're in a bit of a hole.

[NDman]

Royals... Alright. Meche's all about money. In that sense, which may sound like sour grapes, I'm kind of glad that JP didn't get him.

[ElChico]

I think Stairs will be a good fit.

Stairs, who turns 39 on May 29, has a .358 batting average with nine home runs and 23 RBIs in 106 career at-bats at the Rogers Centre

[SoGood]

like I asked SoGood.. who are you going to replace Ted Lilly with?.. yes.. Ted Lilly ain't worth 10 million.. was AJ Burnett worth the money last year?.

you have to pay free agents to come to play for you. The market is set this year. A .500 pitcher gets 10 million

what are you going to do now?.. not pay and let there be more holes in the lineup? Are you going to get the stop kgap kids (who you can't rely on for an entire year) pitch?. sign Meche to 10 million? (but we can't because he is not 'worth' it according to you)

who the hell cares how much they make as long as they help the team.

burnett was pretty good last year when healthy...
ok lets say we did get lilly for 10 million, we would be paying about 6 million more for the same type of performance we got this year.
and where did we finish? 2nd in the east?...
and theres no guarantee that lilly would be better than last yr...and from past years it wouldn't indicate that he would be better.

[spike-spiegel]

Royals... Alright. Meche's all about money. In that sense, which may sound like sour grapes, I'm kind of glad that JP didn't get him.

Exactly what JP said:

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1165490302432&call_pageid=968867503640&col=970081593064&t=TS_Home
“When you’re talking to a guy about coming to a place that’s very close to winning and he’s telling you how important it is to him — and then he chooses a place like that .... that might’ve been an eye-opener for us. We’re trying to compete with the Yankees and Red Sox, so we need guys who want to compete against those guys.”

Sour grapes? Not necessarily.

“I always prepare for a worst-case scenario,” said Ricciardi. “It’s a game of failure, anyway. You put your best foot forward, guys make their decision. These things have a way of working themselves out.”

Now 5/$55 is a lot more than 4/$40, but this was all about the money. At least KC overspent, they needed to do something even if it was pay #2 money for a #3. But then again, Meche might have liked being a leader and a low-pressure atmosphere more than winning... which is good he didn't sign here.

[spike-spiegel]

I think this is the first time JP has said out loud that trading Wells is a real possibility:

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1165490302432&call_pageid=968867503640&col=970081593064&t=TS_Home
“I think, by the new year, we’ll know whether we can sign him,” said Ricciardi. “If we can’t, then we’ve got to explore trading him. It’s plain and simple, but I think we’ll make an honest effort (to re-sign him).”


So if by not signing Lilly AND Meche, Jays have more money to throw to Wells... well that is tough a call. Because now they have two holes in the rotation. Can't win with Wells and two holes in the rotation in 2007.

I hope Wells re-signs and then JP can make some shrewd trades for pitching. Maybe deal some outfield prospects since Jays have Synder, Lind, Patterson all looking very MLB capable. If unable to re-sign Wells, trade him now. White Sox, Dodgers, Mets, Angels, Marlins seem to be suitable with pitching and need for a outfielder.

[rdtx2002]

burnett was pretty good last year when healthy...

keywords: when healthy. You can't just base hope on a new season that AJ will 'be healthy'.. I mean.. even Doc is injury prone when it comes to line drives hit at him.

ok lets say we did get lilly for 10 million, we would be paying about 6 million more for the same type of performance we got this year.

what is funny is that what Lilly is making.. makes JP a genious to sign AJ last year. The market, like i mentioned, states that a .500 pitcher now gets 10 million dollars. so say we don't spend that extra 6 million.. who do you want to pick up for 4 million? You sure ain't getting a pitcher like Mesche or Lille.

and where did we finish? 2nd in the east?...
and theres no guarantee that lilly would be better than last yr...and from past years it wouldn't indicate that he would be better.

you are wrong . This is not counting on Lilly being better. It's counting on Lilly remaining at status quo. If Lilly were to improve, he'd be a 18-19 game winner.

there is one guarantee.. he will win 1/2 his games 90% of the time. It's certainly a lot better than throwing Josh Towers out there every 5 days.

[Corizzle]

TSN.ca's article on the Meche signing says:

"Free agents Jeff Suppan and Mark Redman are on the club's Plan B list of free agents."

I like Suppan and would like to see him in T.O., but I still think the likely option will be dealing for pitching

[rdtx2002]

I hope Wells re-signs and then JP can make some shrewd trades for pitching. Maybe deal some outfield prospects since Jays have Synder, Lind, Patterson all looking very MLB capable. If unable to re-sign Wells, trade him now. White Sox, Dodgers, Mets, Angels, Marlins seem to be suitable with pitching and need for a outfielder.

If we trade Wells, we need him in the NL.. less chance of him haunting us.

[NDman]

Does anyone have any information on Mulder? I know he has history of injuries. But this is one guy that I wouldn't mind gambling on, if the price is right. He'd probabyl command in the neighbourhood of what Lilly got, and maybe a tad more. Still, I'd be interested to bring this guy in

[NDman]

If we trade Wells, we need him in the NL.. less chance of him haunting us.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=MLB&id=2893

The Dodgers are showing interest in acquiring Vernon Wells for the Blue Jays.
Los Angeles could offer Brad Penny, Matt Kemp and potentially more, though just those two seems like an awfully high price to pay for one year of Wells. If the Jays deal Wells, they could put Reed Johnson in center field for a year and go with Adam Lind in left.

If JP can get Penny AND Kemp, I'd say do it in a heart beat without any hesitation!

[canabiz]

Oakland does it (getting into the playoff last year)

Minnesota does it

Detroit does it

All *small* market teams with possibly smaller budgets than the Jays.

We are not here to break the bank, i know it's not easy competing with the Joneses i.e. Yanks and Bosox but it's not impossible.

Now it's time to J.P. and Gibby to show us that they are what some of you guys think they are or if they are simply middle of the pack type of guys.

I am already paying a lot more for my Internet and cable services with Rogers but I am willing to stick it out to support my team but there comes a point where you have to ask: So what's next ?

[Corizzle]

Oakland does it (getting into the playoff last year)

Minnesota does it

Detroit does it

All *small* market teams with possibly smaller budgets than the Jays.

We are not here to break the bank, i know it's not easy competing with the Joneses i.e. Yanks and Bosox but it's not impossible.

Differences is those 3 teams aren't in the AL East, so they play the Yanks/Sox less then 10 times a year most of the time whereas we play them close 20 times each

[spike-spiegel]

If JP can get Penny AND Kemp, I'd say do it in a heart beat without any hesitation!

But why load up on young outfielders when Jays seem to be deepest in that position on the farm level?

I don't think Penny has the stuff to pitch well in the AL. There is a reason he is the odd man out in LA now.


I think JP mentioned that he feels neither Suppan and Redman are that suitable for Jays needs. Plus, they will come overpriced as well. JP said trades might be the route to get pitching now. But who for who? Jays aren't exactly loaded with prospects.

[Rocketo]

i would rather see them trade then to get a pitcher who's only .500 and pay them roy halladay money imaigne how much halladay would command...easily 25 million

[SoGood]

keywords: when healthy. You can't just base hope on a new season that AJ will 'be healthy'.. I mean.. even Doc is injury prone when it comes to line drives hit at him.


players are always going to be injured, what can you do?...just gotta roll with
the punches

what is funny is that what Lilly is making.. makes JP a genious to sign AJ last year. The market, like i mentioned, states that a .500 pitcher now gets 10 million dollars. so say we don't spend that extra 6 million.. who do you want to pick up for 4 million? You sure ain't getting a pitcher like Mesche or Lille.

despite the holes in our pitching staff, we most certainly can't get a 3 or 4 starter with that money but i definately wouldn't spend that much on a middle of the rotation guy even if that is what the market is going for, so why not let our young guys play...and use that money for other purposes...i.e. re-signing wells.

you are wrong . This is not counting on Lilly being better. It's counting on Lilly remaining at status quo. If Lilly were to improve, he'd be a 18-19 game winner.

there is one guarantee.. he will win 1/2 his games 90% of the time. It's certainly a lot better than throwing Josh Towers out there every 5 days.

resigning a guy at market value but 6 mill more than what we paid him last yr just to be status quo???...am i the only one that thinks there something wrong with that?...spending more to be at the same level??...i'm aware that holes need to be filled, but not at that price.
and he wouldn't necessarily need to win more games, he just needs to give the offense a chance to win it since we do have one of the most potent offenses in the game.

[gordholio]

It's crazy what mediocre pitchers are able to command.
Meche (mediocre) - $11m/year.
Lilly (mediocre) - $10m/year.

I doubt that anyone on this board will make $10 million in their entire working lives!

[rdtx2002]

players are always going to be injured, what can you do?...just gotta roll with
the punches

man.. thank god you ain't running the team and JP is... we'd be in last place next year with your kind of attitude.

despite the holes in our pitching staff, we most certainly can't get a 3 or 4 starter with that money but i definately wouldn't spend that much on a middle of the rotation guy even if that is what the market is going for, so why not let our young guys play...and use that money for other purposes...i.e. re-signing wells.

what is the goal of the team?.. why did the Jays sign Stairs and Frank Thomas?.. just to show them to the fans but at the time not compete for the playoffs?.. what message are you bringing to the fans? that you want to hit, hit, hit and have the fans PRAY 60% of the time that the young pitchers will actually make it through 6 innings?

Money is available when needed, Ted Rogers is not afraid to spend money.. why are being a penny-pincher now?.. the Jays were not shy to get BJ Ryan and AJ Burnett last year and Frank Thomas this year.. are you suddenly saying the Jays will be gunshy to resigning Vernon Wells?

gimme a break.

resigning a guy at market value but 6 mill more than what we paid him last yr just to be status quo???...am i the only one that thinks there something wrong with that?...spending more to be at the same level??...i'm aware that holes need to be filled, but not at that price.
and he wouldn't necessarily need to win more games, he just needs to give the offense a chance to win it since we do have one of the most potent offenses in the game.

you are at least hoping he maintains the level of status quo, then you know money is well spent.. look in the case of BJ Ryan.. did he improve his save numbers? only my 2 saves.. does that justify the millions extra he is getting?.. the money he is getting.. maybe he should be getting 50 saves a year no questions asked... you mainly sign for the status quo and hope they get better because that is what you are expecting.. you don't sign for them to be worse.

You sign Ted Lilly hoping that he does not taper off of his production and any 'extra' he gives you will be a bonus. how hard is this to understand?.. you are clearly missing the point time and time again.

and you don't think that this 'potent' offense could squeeze maybe 3-4 more wins off Ted Lilly?.. assuming that he starts 32 games... he'll win at least 16.. add to the fact that you hypothetically can squeeze 3-4 extra because of 'offense'.. that is 18-19 wins for a 3rd starter... WOW.. a 3rd starter on a staff that gets 18-19 wins.. wouldn't you want that?

Doc gets his usual 17-19, AJ the question mark.. lets mark him for 16 wins.. and Ted with 18-19 (because of offense), Chacin is good for 15 win... you see what i'm getting at here?

now i know that all i'm talking is hypothetical.. just think of it without the money in question.. this ain't your money.. ain't my money.. i don't care if they are overpaid.. ALL of them are overpaid.. as long as they help the team.. that is what is important.

now the Jays have 1 Allstar pitcher, and 2 questionable pitchers.. and 2 BIG HOLES in the rotation.

[spike-spiegel]

It's crazy what mediocre pitchers are able to command.
Meche (mediocre) - $11m/year.
Lilly (mediocre) - $10m/year.

I doubt that anyone on this board will make $10 million in their entire working lives!


I can't believe Meche signed for more than Lilly. Royals really broke the bank on that one. Jays and Cubs were up to 4/$40 for him and Royals just blow them away with a 5/$55.

Meche is no AJ Burnett... and people were saying JP was crazy last year. Same with Ryan, with no top flight closer this year, Ryan could have gotten a lot more.

Luckily those are both locked down with Halladay. Only in MLB baseball can $10,000,000 buy you mediocrity.

[Corizzle]

Royals ink Dotel to $5M, one-year deal

Reliever Octavio Dotel and the Kansas City Royals reached a preliminary agreement Friday on a US$5-million, one-year contract.

After years of playing badly, it seems like the Royals now want to overpay for mediocre/bad players

And the A's replaced Thomas with..


Piazza agrees with A's

LAKE BUENA VISTA, Florida (Ticker) -- After a 15-year career in the National League, Mike Piazza has decided it's finally time to live it up as a designated hitter in the American League.

[wesleyw]

Looks like Petite is rejoining the Bronx Bombers...
http://tsn.ca/mlb/news_story/?ID=187674&hubname=

[almostfreeman]

...after signing Meche the Royals dropped Runelvys Hernandez ... a guy who has shown some ability at times. Might be a bit of a stretch but he would not be a costly addition to the club and at 28 he still might have some upside potential. Some confidence building was all it took for Doc, and I'm sure Runelvys would benefit from being on the same staff as Doc ... I might be willing to take a flyer on this guy considering the risk/reward ratio and the clubs' desperate need for pitching.

[Ogata]

The Royals singing of Meche can only mean one thing. At the trade deadline, he will be expendable for young prospects for the Royals.

[spike-spiegel]

Jays to study all means of extending Wells' contract
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2694043

JP should explore trading Wells as soon as he realizes an extension is not possible.

[canabiz]

Buddy Bell calls J.P. a *little man who whines too much*

http://www.torontosun.com/Sports/Baseball/2006/12/09/2703723-sun.html

Still scratching my head on why the Jays needed to get into a bidding war over Gil Meche. Jim Rome today said *It's Gil Meche, it's not Roger Clemens or Barry Zito*. Can't say I didn't agree with Rome

[wesleyw]

The dream of Gagne setting up B.J. Ryan is not going to happen. It appears Gagne is signing a 1 year contract with the Texas Rangers.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/article.jsp?content=20061212_143221_5352

[kevin01]

Buddy Bell calls J.P. a *little man who whines too much*

http://www.torontosun.com/Sports/Baseball/2006/12/09/2703723-sun.html

Still scratching my head on why the Jays needed to get into a bidding war over Gil Meche. Jim Rome today said *It's Gil Meche, it's not Roger Clemens or Barry Zito*. Can't say I didn't agree with Rome

J.P is a whiner, everyone knows. But royals are not better, they didnt show any professionalism with this come back

[killuminati]

According to one baseball source, Ricciardi has floated to Wells a proposal of seven years and $126 million, the average annual value of which would exceed Soriano's contract with the Chicago Cubs (eight years, $136 million) by $1 million.

Totally hope thats true.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AuCEAOMw45Dh6UUZJusw194RvLYF?slug=ti-wells121206&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

[spike-spiegel]

Totally hope thats true.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AuCEAOMw45Dh6UUZJusw194RvLYF?slug=ti-wells121206&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


$18M sounds about right. Might be a little lower than what Wells can get though... that's tough to call. Seven years is long too.

Hmmm... I don't about this. This really ties up the payroll.

In other news, Rockies got a speedy CF in Tavares, and two good pitching prospects for Jennings. I wonder if we could get more for Wells... I would love a Ervin Santana, Shields, Aybar SS deal with LAA. Aybar-Hill duo!

[Blue_Thunder13]

$18M sounds about right. Might be a little lower than what Wells can get though... that's tough to call. Seven years is long too.



I think 7 year contract is a really good length...wells is only 28 right now and will be 35 when it expires and we would have locked him up for pretty much the "prime" of his career.

[rdtx2002]

proposed 7 years 18 million... and yet people 'think' the Jays are gunshy about money

[SoGood]

18mill/yr seems pretty fair...
could compare it to beltran's deal...quite similar players...both 5 tool players only beltran seems to offer more in the offensive department and wells offers more in the defensive department.
beltran only made about 14 mill last season...but then his deal was made a couple seasons ago...so the inflated price seems right.
if wells doesn't sign, i would hate to say it but it would be time to explore deals seriously...
but i would definately spend it on wells instead imediocre pitching.

[spike-spiegel]

I don't think he'll sign. It is a good deal but something tells me it is only the beginning.

Wells will counter for a $20 million which the Jays should never agree. They will balk and should trade him.

[ggs]

agreed, vdub would be smarter to wait for free agency to get his 20 mil. 18/yr is a good offer by the jays though, thats more than beltran/soriano money, very fair. too bad as i like v, but looks like we'll be getting some pitching help if he shoots this down.

[ElChico]

^the offer is for 20 million/yr

1st year 5.6million (already under contract)
6 years for ~120million = 20 million a year
---------------------------------------
equals = 7 years ~126million

[Rocketo]

trade wells go for ichiro next year

[SoGood]

^the offer is for 20 million/yr

1st year 5.6million (already under contract)
6 years for ~120million = 20 million a year
---------------------------------------
equals = 7 years ~126million

um...the 5.6 on the upcoming yr is the end of an existing contract...
and then 126mill for another 7yrs?...or am i wrong?
isn't that how it works for contracts?...
lets say he accepts...doesn't he hafta play out his existing contract before the new one kicks in? or does the new contract kick in immediately.

[ElChico]

um...the 5.6 on the upcoming yr is the end of an existing contract...
and then 126mill for another 7yrs?...or am i wrong?
isn't that how it works for contracts?...
lets say he accepts...doesn't he hafta play out his existing contract before the new one kicks in? or does the new contract kick in immediately.

it would be a "re-up" meaning that it would pay 126 for the next 7 years, not 7 years after next. see the Chris Carpenter deal for an example.

[skyblue12]

so much for signing gagne :\

[Tofu Drift Shinji]

so much for signing gagne :\

Eric Gagne, Rangers strike 1-year deal (CBC (http://www.cbc.ca/sports/baseball/story/2006/12/12/gagne-rangers.html))

[rdtx2002]

six-year, $52 million deal for Matsusaka

wow.. i wish i can get that kind of deal before pitching a single pitch in the MLB

[kevin01]

there are a tonne of players next year like the person said before ichiro. I think someone like him would be a better fit, but then again, most of those players probably wouldnt sign. If rogers makes alot of money next year, expect JP to sign another big name.

[almostfreeman]

six-year, $52 million deal for Matsusaka

wow.. i wish i can get that kind of deal before pitching a single pitch in the MLB

work on your knuckleball ... with your left hand ;)

[spike-spiegel]

there are a tonne of players next year like the person said before ichiro. I think someone like him would be a better fit, but then again, most of those players probably wouldnt sign. If rogers makes alot of money next year, expect JP to sign another big name.

Jays have some solid outfielder prospects led by Lind and Snider. They lack young pitching stud prospects. I don't think JP would be competing with other teams for Ichiro, Andruw, Hunter.

[Hanniganite]

Now they get to negotiate and play the waiting game. At least soon the Jays will know where Vernon stands and it'll either be Vernon stays a Jay for a long time or they trade him and should get plenty back. There won't be a waiting-till he's-a-free-agent-and-hoping crap where they risk getting nothing at all.

[adehbone]

Matsuz deal was fair and this guy has pitched against MLB talent and done real well.....it was almost a bargin deal...

and if the Padilla got 11mill/yr...most certainly Matsuz is worth 52/over 6

btw...i hope JP wakes up tommorow....and looks at the new Yanks/Bosox rosters......if Papelbon switches over and pulls a smoltz...the sox will be the fave in the AL East

[rdtx2002]

Matsuz deal was fair and this guy has pitched against MLB talent and done real well.....it was almost a bargin deal...

and if the Padilla got 11mill/yr...most certainly Matsuz is worth 52/over 6

btw...i hope JP wakes up tommorow....and looks at the new Yanks/Bosox rosters......if Papelbon switches over and pulls a smoltz...the sox will be the fave in the AL East

well... you also have to factor the 51 million 'signing fee'

[spike-spiegel]

Matsuz deal was fair and this guy has pitched against MLB talent and done real well.....it was almost a bargin deal...

and if the Padilla got 11mill/yr...most certainly Matsuz is worth 52/over 6

btw...i hope JP wakes up tommorow....and looks at the new Yanks/Bosox rosters......if Papelbon switches over and pulls a smoltz...the sox will be the fave in the AL East


Sucks to be Dice-K. Lower contract just because of the posting fee. He'll make it all back in endorsements though. And Boras drove up the price for Zito with this anyways. Sox got a good deal, $17M for six years on what-should-be young dominant pitcher. Here's hoping he's a flop! Though I think he'll be good this year and then dominating in the second year on.

And if any Red Sox fans or personnel whine about not being able to spend and compete like the Yankees, they should be muzzled.


it would be a "re-up" meaning that it would pay 126 for the next 7 years, not 7 years after next. see the Chris Carpenter deal for an example.

It is not a re-up. The offer will start after the next season.
http://www.globesports.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20061213.wspt-jays-13/GSStory/GlobeSportsBaseball/home

[ElChico]

It is not a re-up. The offer will start after the next season.
http://www.globesports.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20061213.wspt-jays-13/GSStory/GlobeSportsBaseball/home

6 of one, half dozen of another... While the contract is 126mill for the next seven years, effectively they are paying 120mill to add 6 years, or 20 million per year.

[Leafsin06]

agreed, vdub would be smarter to wait for free agency to get his 20 mil. 18/yr is a good offer by the jays though, thats more than beltran/soriano money, very fair. too bad as i like v, but looks like we'll be getting some pitching help if he shoots this down.

I don't think Wells will get 20 mil if he waited until next year. There are going to be 3 other big time CF'ers in Hunter, Ichiro and A. Jones. Wells' number could also dip next year and/or he could get injured which could affect his value.

[NDman]

I don't think Wells will get 20 mil if he waited until next year. There are going to be 3 other big time CF'ers in Hunter, Ichiro and A. Jones. Wells' number could also dip next year and/or he could get injured which could affect his value.

That may be true. But his numbers are just as likely to improve for the same arguement

[YnD]

As Bobcat says: "Josh Tower's Isn't the Answer."

Unless he pulls off a Chris Carpenter and has this random comeback year.

We need PITCHING. PITCHING > WELLS and everyone knows that since our offense can do fine without him.

[NDman]

As Bobcat says: "Josh Tower's Isn't the Answer."

Unless he pulls off a Chris Carpenter and has this random comeback year.

It will never happen because Towers did not, and does not have Carp's potential. Not even close. :)

Carpenter's so-called failure here in TO was because of injuries. He was always thought of as a guy with lots of potential. It wasn't too long ago that him and Halladay were 2 of the best the Jays had in their minor systems. Both had their ups and downs, only Carpenter's problems were injuries with Halladay's were mechanics. Jays decided not to gamble on Carpenter. Oh well. St. Louis got lucky/good instinct that for sure

[spike-spiegel]

It will never happen because Towers did not, and does not have Carp's potential. Not even close. :)

Carpenter's so-called failure here in TO was because of injuries. He was always thought of as a guy with lots of potential. It wasn't too long ago that him and Halladay were 2 of the best the Jays had in their minor systems. Both had their ups and downs, only Carpenter's problems were injuries with Halladay's were mechanics. Jays decided not to gamble on Carpenter. Oh well. St. Louis got lucky/good instinct that for sure

Towers might not be as bad as he was last year though. If he gets the chance, getting 5-8 wins after a disasterous 2-10, it'll be a bargain at $2.9M in this market.

[skyblue12]

i think signing thomas was a big mistake that could end up costing the jays.

we could have spent the money on more pitching and resigning wells. keeping wells would have been plenty good enough for our offense, and if thomas ends up injured again for the season, it's GG! lol.

[YnD]

i think signing thomas was a big mistake that could end up costing the jays.

we could have spent the money on more pitching and resigning wells. keeping wells would have been plenty good enough for our offense, and if thomas ends up injured again for the season, it's GG! lol.

No your wrong that it was a bad assigning. But your right that they desperately need pitching. In regards to Thomas, they do need the guy to fill the clutch role in scoring runs as well. The DH position was clearly of no value to the jays last year production wise.

[spike-spiegel]

No your wrong that it was a bad assigning. But your right that they desperately need pitching. In regards to Thomas, they do need the guy to fill the clutch role in scoring runs as well. The DH position was clearly of no value to the jays last year production wise.

I don't think spending money on other places was really an issue with re-signing Wells. Unless they signed both Meche and Lilly, then maybe. But I think Rogers sees Jays as a good investment and doesn't pouring some more money. But money can't solve the pitching holes right now. I'm not convince Chacin is a #3 starter either, probably a #4 or 5. So I think Jays need a #3 starter. If they trade Wells, hopefully they get a legit SS prospect, a major league ready starter, and a pitching prospect at least in return. I doubt they'll get all three though.

[canabiz]

Towers might not be as bad as he was last year though. If he gets the chance, getting 5-8 wins after a disasterous 2-10, it'll be a bargain at $2.9M in this market.

I hope the Jays pitching coaches help Towers get back on his feet

He left too many balls hanging in the middle of the plate last year, easy dingers for those American League bats

His confidence was also shaken up, it's as important as the mechanics

I hope for his sake and for the Jays' sake that he would rebound and do something worthwhile for that paycheque

Cheers.

[asot24]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6274400

Wells gonna sign with us! Huzzah!

[herakles]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6274400

Wells gonna sign with us! Huzzah!

Ugh.....


The deal is expected to include full no-trade protection and an opt-out clause.

[NDman]

I am never a fan of no-trade clause but in a way, this also means Well's intention to stay with the Jays. Considering that many experts believe Wells can score a 20M/yr after next season, this one isn't so bad

[wesleyw]

Seems like more and more players are demanding the opt-out clause.

[spike-spiegel]

Ugh.....


The deal is expected to include full no-trade protection and an opt-out clause.

Rumours are saying the no-trade will kick in the third year and the opt-out in the fourth year.

Wells would be a 10/5 player and gotten the no-trade after the four year in the contract. So I THINK the no-trade is only one year earlier. Opt-out is protection in case Jays suck and Wells wants to leave which is both a good and bad thing.

Though I'm never fan of any kind of no-trade in big monster deals like this. It ties the GM's hands way too much because the team landscape might change (see Burrell, ManRam).

[Tofu Drift Shinji]

Wells deal practically done

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/article.jsp?content=20061215_131654_5380

I don't see him pulling a Rod Barajas, so in lieu of that, welcome back Vernon!

[canabiz]

Good to hear Vern decides to stay with us

Now if only we could bring back King Carlos (in my dreams, I know) and get a few more pitchers ;-)

[skyblue12]

rumours circulating about rios and another pitcher being packaged for a vet. pitcher.. perhaps a brad penny (heard on sportsnet news) hopefully this doesn't happen.. mainly because i just purchased an alex rios jersey last season! XD

[awestruck]

Would be sad to see Alex go if they do trade him. He improved so much from 2005 season.

[kevin01]

Would be sad to see Alex go if they do trade him. He improved so much from 2005 season.

would you want a better pitching rotation, or a better offence. We really dont need rios in the lineup now that vernons locked for 7 years. We have our core for atleast another 3. And i think glaus will resign once his contract is up.

[rdtx2002]

Good to hear Vern decides to stay with us

Now if only we could bring back King Carlos (in my dreams, I know) and get a few more pitchers ;-)

and where exactly do you put Lyle Overbay?

[wesleyw]

If we end up trading Rios, our OF would go from a solid, deep OF to a very shallow OF. Like always, got to give up quality for quality.

[gstrgreg]

rumours circulating about rios and another pitcher being packaged for a vet. pitcher.. perhaps a brad penny (heard on sportsnet news) hopefully this doesn't happen.. mainly because i just purchased an alex rios jersey last season! XD

Rios is a huge part of this teams future.. i don't see the Jays trading him away. Penny is a good pitcher, but besides the fact that trading him would leave a huge hole in RF, it would be hard to deal a future 5 tool 30/30 player.... (ok maybe Rios isnt THAT good but still)

[B40]

What about Lind? That kid showed a lot of promise...

How many games did Rios miss due to injury last season?

[Andy Dick]

We cannot trade Rios.

[spike-spiegel]

Neither Johnson or Lind would get much. Rios is quality trade bait, but he is awesome another Vernon Wells. Tough to see him go if he does. Unless a Danny Haren or Dontrelle Willis comes here. :twisted:

[skyblue12]

i think rios is capable of hitting for high average and good power.. he showed that he could hit for at least a bit of power last year and i think he would have reached at least 20 home runs if it wasn't for his staph infection.

in my opinion, lind and johnson can plateau (just like cat and johnson did last season). however i DO think that johnson is going to be starting most of the time and lind will probably be down in the minors.

if rios is traded, I'M RIOTING THE DT AREA (including my friend who also bought a rios jersey XD)

[thelefteyeguy]

Rios will be traded...I want a good #2 in return ;)

[skyblue12]

^ ahh don't curse it! if rios is traded first i'm gonna riot in front of your house (not that i would know where it was) and then the dt area!

wouldn't getting a good #2 show everybody that the jays have already given up on burnett, who they wanted to be their #2 guy when they signed him to such a big contract? or by getting a good #2 guy u mean getting one.. and then perhaps placing him third in the rotation.. or keep burnett at 3rd and perhaps switch? WOW im confused

[ak47num1]

Considering what Lilly and Meche got, Burnett for $11M a season is a good deal.

So happy that Wells is gonna be back!

[skyblue12]

Considering what Lilly and Meche got, Burnett for $11M a season is a good deal.

So happy that Wells is gonna be back!

considering what lilly and meche got it was a GREAT deal, but i'm just saying the jays expected burnett to be their #2 guy and imo it would have a bad impression on everybody if they give up on burnett being that guy just because he didn't have the great season he was expected to have, partially due to injuries.

[ak47num1]

Yes. But trying to deliver the arms in our farm system really scare me. (Even though I like Downs and McGowan)

[skyblue12]

i think janssen and marcum both are going to be good pitchers.. they showed that they could compete at the major league level and i think in one or two years, they'll be part of the jays starting rotation.. i wouldn't mind having the rotation at hallday, burnett, chacin, (get another good 4th starter), and then having either janssen or marcum pitching 5th in the rotation. either that or they could start in the minors this upcoming season and be called up later, or start in the bullpen for the jays :D

[ak47num1]

No faith in McGowan?

[skyblue12]

lol i just chose to mention janssen and marcum that's all XD

[skyblue12]

not much faith in towers though. MAYBE a 5th starter.. i dunno have to see more of him maybe coming out of the bullpen first.

[SoGood]

jc romero looked really good to me last season...
i think they're trying to build up his arm strength to be a starter at the moment...
he's a lefty too:razz:

[gstrgreg]

Now that we have Vernon locked up, getting another starter doenst become as urgent - we don't HAVE to win this year.

I guess this means that we MAY continue to try and develop the younger pitchers (ie. Janssen, Marcum, Mcgowan, Romero) in the majors rather than the minors. Major league experience is much better than the minors anyways.

I would predict JP will try to swing and trade for a 3rd starter - but he DEFINITELY NOT compromise the team's lineup since we have a lot of young pitchers than are developing (and may become good). As of right now, the jays have the most depth at the pitching position even though we need a 3rd starter. If JP wanted to win this year, we can always trade some of the guys named above for a major league ready starter.

edit: it is Davis Romero, not JC (who signed with the Bosox)

[kevin01]

Now that we have Vernon locked up, getting another starter doenst become as urgent - we don't HAVE to win this year.

I guess this means that we MAY continue to try and develop the younger pitchers (ie. Janssen, Marcum, Mcgowan, Romero) in the majors rather than the minors. Major league experience is much better than the minors anyways.

I would predict JP will try to swing and trade for a 3rd starter - but he DEFINITELY NOT compromise the team's lineup since we have a lot of young pitchers than are developing (and may become good). As of right now, the jays have the most depth at the pitching position even though we need a 3rd starter. If JP wanted to win this year, we can always trade some of the guys named above for a major league ready starter.

edit: it is Davis Romero, not JC (who signed with the Bosox)


we dont have to, but they are going to try like never before. if not this year, then in the next 2. if they still dont win, either their payroll goes way up, or htey rebuild, again

[canabiz]

Now that we have Vernon locked up, getting another starter doenst become as urgent - we don't HAVE to win this year.

I guess this means that we MAY continue to try and develop the younger pitchers (ie. Janssen, Marcum, Mcgowan, Romero) in the majors rather than the minors. Major league experience is much better than the minors anyways.

I would predict JP will try to swing and trade for a 3rd starter - but he DEFINITELY NOT compromise the team's lineup since we have a lot of young pitchers than are developing (and may become good). As of right now, the jays have the most depth at the pitching position even though we need a 3rd starter. If JP wanted to win this year, we can always trade some of the guys named above for a major league ready starter.

edit: it is Davis Romero, not JC (who signed with the Bosox)

I would consider it a HUGE disappointment if the Jays doesn't at least make the playoff this year. I don't care if it is atop the AL East or as a wild-card, the Jays need to make something happen this year in October or we might potentially see some firesale again. JP and Gibby know the time is now, it's time to put up or shut up really.

[gordholio]

I hope the Blue Jays don't trade Rios for some Gil Meche-type pitcher, like I think they might.
Rios is on the verge of becoming a 30 HR and 100 RBI guy.
It would be a shame to lose him unless we get a pitcher who is good, not half decent.

[Corky]

The Toronto Blue Jays have called a news conference for noon on Monday where its expected they will confirm Vernon Wells has signed a new long-term deal with the team.
http://tsn.ca/mlb/news_story/?ID=188886&hubname=

[radeonboy]

Wow that Wells got lots of money. I hope he ends up staying the whole contract and hopefully nothing turns sour like the Vince Carter episode.

This guy better produce too, like big time.

Damn contracts are getting nuts these days, all about money.

[phd1969]

Wells has earned every cent of his contract, hopefully he keeps up the pace and doesn't slack off after the big pay day.

As for playoffs this year, I don't think it's happening. Boston really did a lot in the offseason and the Yankees are the Yankees. So we'll be very lucky to squeak into the playoffs especially with our currrent rotation, the stars will have to align perfectly.

[NDman]

It looks like a pretty smart contract. Wells gets his no trade clause, as well as opt out. He'll be a 10-5 player just after midway through his extension so the no trade clause is essentially only for the first half anyway. And the contract is so back-loaded that makes the opt-out part rather unlikely, depending on how the market goes in a few years, of course. But looking at it, I like the contract that JP did especially it still gives some flexibility for the Jays to sign someone still

[thelefteyeguy]

Wow that Wells got lots of money. I hope he ends up staying the whole contract and hopefully nothing turns sour like the Vince Carter episode.

This guy better produce too, like big time.

Damn contracts are getting nuts these days, all about money.

If he produce like he did last year...i'd be happy with that.

I'm worried about the pitching...

[skyblue12]

^ we need to get at least a 4th starter.. and hope all our other guys can produce like halladay burnett chacin.. etc.

[kevin01]

It looks like a pretty smart contract. Wells gets his no trade clause, as well as opt out. He'll be a 10-5 player just after midway through his extension so the no trade clause is essentially only for the first half anyway. And the contract is so back-loaded that makes the opt-out part rather unlikely, depending on how the market goes in a few years, of course. But looking at it, I like the contract that JP did especially it still gives some flexibility for the Jays to sign someone still

so how much does he get paid this season?

[wesleyw]

so how much does he get paid this season?

I am pretty sure he's going to be paid $5.6 million this season.

[Hanniganite]

I am pretty sure he's going to be paid $5.6 million this season.

Something like that. It's still his old contract. New contract begins with the 2008-2009 season. It's heavily backloaded so the Jays have wiggle room in the next couple of seasons.

From sportsnet:
He gets a $25.5-million signing bonus payable in three equal instalments on March 1 in 2008, 2009 and 2010. His salary is just $500,000 in 2008 and $1.5 million in 2009 before climbing to $12.5 million in 2010 and $23 million in 2011. The final three seasons are worth $21 million apiece.

That leaves the Blue Jays with a pricey but manageable core of six players -- Wells, Halladay, A.J. Burnett, B.J. Ryan, Frank Thomas and Troy Glaus -- that will cost them about $60 million in 2007, $61 million in 2008, $57 million in 2009 and $58 million in 2010.

[spike-spiegel]

Something like that. It's still his old contract. New contract begins with the 2008-2009 season. It's heavily backloaded so the Jays have wiggle room in the next couple of seasons.

From sportsnet:

Looks like this contract is for the upcoming years. If Wells helps the team to the playoffs a few times, it is worth it. But there is always the potential Wells will become an overpaid past-prime DH or declining OF in the latter years of his contract. Either way, I don't think Wells is a player who is going to dog it or get fat after signing a contract that'll set him for life. He's a bit quieter but he wants to win, he proved that by signing here long-term and instead of going to consistently losing Texas Rangers.

[Ogata]

^ we need to get at least a 4th starter.. and hope all our other guys can produce like halladay burnett chacin.. etc.

More like we need a 3rd SP. If nothing happens It will be:

Hallady
Burnett
Chacin
Mix of Marcum/Jannsenn/Towers/Taubenhiem/Downs/Mcgowan *shrugs* for the 4th and 5th spot.

[Tofu Drift Shinji]

I really hope we don't trade away Rios for a pitcher.

[phd1969]

If Towers ever gets back into form than we'll be in real good shape because he can easily cover the 4th spot. Chacin is a 3rd spot pitcher when he's healthy and consistent. And then one of the young arms can cover the 5th spot.

Like I mention, it's a lot of 'ifs' and everything will have to right for the Jays to make the playoffs.

[Blue_Thunder13]

But if the jays want to compete in their division then they're going to need a another solid pitcher bc chachin is pretty inconsistant to be a 3rd starter and last year he he rarely went past the 5-6th inning...if they're actually going to trade rios then they better get something really good in return bc i think rios is going to be an all-star one day...

[spike-spiegel]

But if the jays want to compete in their division then they're going to need a another solid pitcher bc chachin is pretty inconsistant to be a 3rd starter and last year he he rarely went past the 5-6th inning...if they're actually going to trade rios then they better get something really good in return bc i think rios is going to be an all-star one day...


I think Chacin is a number 4 starter. doesn't have overpowering stuff, usually pitches into the sixth, inconsistent from his rookie and half sopho year. jays need a 3 starter and let someone claim the fifth. rios was an all-star last year, i w ouldn't trade him unless a young #2/3 starter.

[kevin01]

I think Chacin is a number 4 starter. doesn't have overpowering stuff, usually pitches into the sixth, inconsistent from his rookie and half sopho year. jays need a 3 starter and let someone claim the fifth. rios was an all-star last year, i w ouldn't trade him unless a young #2/3 starter.

the only reason chacin was winning games last year was because of run support. Im pretty sure hell get the same run support or maybe even more. Last year it was 8 runs a game, this offense is better.

[gstrgreg]

the only reason chacin was winning games last year was because of run support. Im pretty sure hell get the same run support or maybe even more. Last year it was 8 runs a game, this offense is better.

this is true. Chacin is good enough to keep you in the game.. which is really all you can ask for from a #4 or 5.

[spike-spiegel]

the only reason chacin was winning games last year was because of run support. Im pretty sure hell get the same run support or maybe even more. Last year it was 8 runs a game, this offense is better.

Chacin had a 5.00+ ERA before his elbow injury and got wins with tons of run support. After he came back, he pitched much better like his solid rookie year. I think he can pitch a bit better than his rookie year so he can be a solid #4... Not much of an innings eater, probably a ERA around 4,00, but enough to win.

[rdtx2002]

Zito to the Giants for Wells money

[phd1969]

Wow I wonder if JP tried to get Zito first before giving Wells that money. I'm guessing JP tried but Zito wanted to stay in Cali.

Zito would have rounded out the rotation very nicely.

[wesleyw]

Wow..sure was a surprise for Giants to sign him. It appeared as though Rangers and Mets were the front runners for his services this whole time.

[Ch28]

Wow..sure was a surprise for Giants to sign him. It appeared as though Rangers and Mets were the front runners for his services this whole time.

I believe the Rangers were the front runners until they issued that ultimatum to Zito.

Personally I thought that was a stupid move...you're trying to sign a player and you basically say "take it or leave it" If I was Zito I would have automatically declined any offer from Texas after that.

[normistheman]

With the loss of Jason Schmidt, I guess the Giants got really desperate. Zito's a pretty good pitcher and all, but he's probably not even the top 8 pitchers in the league.
Must be great to be a free agent lefthanded starter this year.

[adehbone]

Let's say John Gibbons switched to a four-man rotation this spring and Roy Halladay cracked the 300-inning mark by Labor Day. Would an hour go by without somebody on "Baseball Tonight" or ESPN.com or Baseball Prospectus mentioning how absolutely insane this was?

from simmons latest article...lets hope this does not become a scary reality :S

[rdtx2002]

pitcher use to log over 300 innings. i don't see why they can't nowadays with preparation

[Corizzle]

Wow I wonder if JP tried to get Zito first before giving Wells that money. I'm guessing JP tried but Zito wanted to stay in Cali.

Zito would have rounded out the rotation very nicely.

At 18 mil a season I'd want him to do a lot more then round out the rotation

[almostfreeman]

I guess Runelvys Hernandez was unavailable ..01/09/2007 4:24 PM ET
Blue Jays sign Thomson

The Toronto Blue Jays have signed right-handed pitcher John Thomson to a one-year contract worth $500,000 (US), with incentives.
Thomson, 33, spent last season with the Atlanta Braves posting a 2-7 record with an ERA of 4.82 in 18 games (15 starts). The 6'3", 220 lb. veteran allowed 93 hits and struckout 46 over 80.1 innings. A 7th round pick by Colorado in the 1993 June Free Agent Draft, he has appeared in 214 career games (210 starts) posting a 62-84 record with a 4.69 ERA.

The Vicksburg, Mississippi native has appeared in two postseason games, one each in the 2004 and 2005 Division Series with Atlanta. Thomson has played for four teams (Colorado Rockies 1997-2002, New York Mets 2002, Texas Rangers 2003 and Atlanta Braves 2004-2006) over a nine-year career, winning a career high 14 games with Atlanta in 2004.

To make room on the 40-man roster INF Rob Cosby has been designated for assignment. Last season with Syracuse (AAA) of the International League, he posted a .252 average with 18 homeruns and 66 RBI in 123 games.

[NDman]

Thomson is a great pickup. Incentive-laden contract with a very low base salary. If he recaptures most of his form in 2004 season, he might be the stop-gap 3rd/4th starter that the Jays sought

[almostfreeman]

Thomson is a great pickup. Incentive-laden contract with a very low base salary. If he recaptures most of his form in 2004 season, he might be the stop-gap 3rd/4th starter that the Jays sought

Unlikely he will regain his 04' form , but he can eat up alot of innings .

[spike-spiegel]

Unlikely he will regain his 04' form , but he can eat up alot of innings .

Depth too. A little more competition and selection too. As long as he can eat innings, this is a good signing. If he gets injured, it's only $500,000. Great deal. If he pitches like 2004, incentives can go as high as $4 million total. In this market, that is a steal and anything is good for the Jays pitching now.

[Ch28]

Thomson is a great pickup. Incentive-laden contract with a very low base salary. If he recaptures most of his form in 2004 season, he might be the stop-gap 3rd/4th starter that the Jays sought

Exactly! I love it when GMs pick up players using that type of contract. If they play poorly then it's only a very small hit to their salary cap and if they play well then they get paid for earning it.

[gstrgreg]

now if only every sketchy signing got this type of contract


Exactly! I love it when GMs pick up players using that type of contract. If they play poorly then it's only a very small hit to their salary cap and if they play well then they get paid for earning it.

[NDman]

now if only every sketchy signing got this type of contract

This is sad. No matter what the GMs have been b!tching about, there's alwas 1 or 2 big spenders that would blink first before the players do. :evil:

Back on the Thompson signing, did anyone see Thompson lashes out on LoDuca and Floyd? I really wonder why the hate on LoDuca. I'm surprised to see a pitcher slams any catcher not named Pierzynski!

http://tsn.ca/mlb/news_story/?ID=191672&hubname=

[spike-spiegel]

This is sad. No matter what the GMs have been b!tching about, there's alwas 1 or 2 big spenders that would blink first before the players do. :evil:

Back on the Thompson signing, did anyone see Thompson lashes out on LoDuca and Floyd? I really wonder why the hate on LoDuca. I'm surprised to see a pitcher slams any catcher not named Pierzynski!

http://tsn.ca/mlb/news_story/?ID=191672&hubname=


Maybe something a bit personal since the Braves played the Mets many times over the years. Who knows, I guess he wanted to get his shot in after he left the division. I think Jays played Mets in Interleague play last year so it'll be a while until they play again.

[Hanniganite]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/article.jsp?content=20070114_130337_2968

Overbay reportedly signed to a 4 year $24 mil contract.

[skyblue12]

nice to hear overbay's gonna be back.. i thought he was a great player for us last year :)

[normistheman]

4 years, $24 million is a bargain for the type of player Overbay is.

Great re-signing.

[NDman]

Great deal on Overbay. Nice to see players coming back to Toronto for quite possibly a lot less money he could have commanded 2 years later when he really hit the free agency. Now the core is almost set. Hopefully JP can get settled with Rios and Johnson at a reasonable prices as well!

[will games]

I love this signing!!!

[B40]

Toronto is 14 to 1 to win AL :razz:

[normistheman]

Toronto is 14 to 1 to win AL :razz:

How about the Yanks and Red Sox???

[spike-spiegel]

Great deal on Overbay. Nice to see players coming back to Toronto for quite possibly a lot less money he could have commanded 2 years later when he really hit the free agency. Now the core is almost set. Hopefully JP can get settled with Rios and Johnson at a reasonable prices as well!

Johnson is prime trade bait with Lind and Snider coming up. Wouldn't mind locking him up to trade tho.

[normistheman]

Johnson is prime trade bait with Lind and Snider coming up. Wouldn't mind locking him up to trade tho.

I would think that Rios would be more marketable to get that starting pitching depth.
Plus all those rumours about Rios going; there has to be something to it.
I haven't heard much with Reed Johnson though.

[NDman]

I don't think Johnson would command much in the trade market. He is one of those guys that the crowd loves but draws very little noise outside of Toronto. His intangibles (hussles, work ethics, etc) are worth more than his abilities, IMO. I am not sure Lind is really ready for the bigs. He should be a reserve for the coming season and the Jays go from there. Just hold up the spot until Snider really develops in a couple of years (hopefully)

[normistheman]

I don't think Johnson would command much in the trade market. He is one of those guys that the crowd loves but draws very little noise outside of Toronto. His intangibles (hussles, work ethics, etc) are worth more than his abilities, IMO. I am not sure Lind is really ready for the bigs. He should be a reserve for the coming season and the Jays go from there. Just hold up the spot until Snider really develops in a couple of years (hopefully)

I think Lind will be hard pressed to find a roster spot this season, despite his strong bat, and the fact he bats left-handed.
The problem with Lind is that he's not the best defensive outfielder out there. Makes u appreciate how good Reed, Vernon and Alex are out there.
And now that they added Matt Stairs, who also bats left-handed, I'm not sure how much Lind would be able to play. The only scenario I see Lind getting regular playing time is through injury or having a Rios traded, and they plattoon him and Matt Stairs.

[almostfreeman]

Toronto is 14 to 1 to win AL :razz:


Seems like a good bet @ 14 -1

[Rocketo]

Lyle Overboy

[spike-spiegel]

I don't think Johnson would command much in the trade market. He is one of those guys that the crowd loves but draws very little noise outside of Toronto. His intangibles (hussles, work ethics, etc) are worth more than his abilities, IMO. I am not sure Lind is really ready for the bigs. He should be a reserve for the coming season and the Jays go from there. Just hold up the spot until Snider really develops in a couple of years (hopefully)


Johnson might not bring much but trading Rios (who has a few more years of controlled salary), someone with as much potential as Wells is a mistake unless Jays get a young pitcher back (which won't happen). Reed's service time is almost up and then his salary will no longer be under control.

People say Snider is three years away from the majors. I don't see Lind's defense being no worse than Cat's. His bat is his meal ticket though, reminds me of Hill's bat with more pop and lefty.

[B40]

How about the Yanks and Red Sox???

Yankees 2.4 to 1
Boston 5 to 1

This is for the AL Pennant though.. not the division, so they'd have to go all the way to the World Series.

14 to 1 is not bad for the Jays... they probably won't win the division though and either Boston or NY will have to have a mediocre season to their standards for the Jays to even have a chance at the wild card. It's still somewhat of a long shot, but not bad value at 14 to 1.

[Ogata]

So can you say we are done with the exception of pitching?

Hallady
Burnett
Chacin
Thomson
Towers/Marcum/Jansenn

I don't mind this SP lineup and hopefully Towers will bounce back.

[B40]

So can you say we are done with the exception of pitching?

Hallady
Burnett
Chacin
Thomson
Towers/Marcum/Jansenn

I don't mind this SP lineup and hopefully Towers will bounce back.

I've lost faith in Towers, but maybe he can recover from last season. He pitched ok at times, he seemed to be struggling more with his confidence than pitching...

Hopefully Burnett can stay healthy. He was very impressive at times when he was healthy.

Jays are pretty good value at 14 to 1 to win AL... provided nothing disastrous happens like the Hillenbrand and Lily incident.

[NDman]

Where did that come from? Boomer to the Jays, possibly? I didn't even know JP was talking to his camp. Wow

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=MLB&id=1471

Free agent David Wells swill consider signing with the Blue Jays if he can't work out a deal with the Padres.
Wells' preference is to stay on the West Coast, but he's always gone where the money is during his 20-year career. Wells previously pitched with the Jays from 1987-92 and 1999-2000. He's scheduled to meet again with the Padres on Wednesday.

[spike-spiegel]

Where did that come from? Boomer to the Jays, possibly? I didn't even know JP was talking to his camp. Wow

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=MLB&id=1471


I don't think he's coming. JP has said they've just "been kicking the tires" nothing more. I rather not see him come back.

I'm content with Marcum/Towers/McGowan/Janssen fighting for the last spot, provided Thomson is not injured.

[NDman]

Yeah, just read the article on TSN now. At the time Rotoworld posted that update, there wasn't any articles on this so it was quite surprising. Now JP said they had some interest but nothing structural. We'll see...

[normistheman]

I don't think he's coming. JP has said they've just "been kicking the tires" nothing more. I rather not see him come back.

I'm content with Marcum/Towers/McGowan/Janssen fighting for the last spot, provided Thomson is not injured.

Marcum/Towers/McGowan/Janssen.
In the past 2 years or so, each one of these pitchers have shown me at times that they can be a good depth pitcher in the rotation. So law of averages would suggest that at least one of them can make an impact for this upcoming season.

Having said that, veteran pitching is always nice to acquire.

[Ogata]

Where did that come from? Boomer to the Jays, possibly? I didn't even know JP was talking to his camp. Wow

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=MLB&id=1471

Ok some of you might hate me for asking but why did they call David Wells the nickanme Boomer? Because he blew a lot of games or where did that come from?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Wells

I don't still don't understand...because of his appearance, "Boomer" is suppose to mean fat?

[Madchester]

The Jays have signed Sal Fasano to a minor-league contract....

The guy's probably best known for having the only porn-stache in the MLB.

[skyblue12]

The Jays have signed Sal Fasano to a minor-league contract....

The guy's probably best known for having the only porn-stache in the MLB.

:lol: i agree.. i remember seeing him before he was picked up by the yankees last season

[spike-spiegel]

Marcum/Towers/McGowan/Janssen.
In the past 2 years or so, each one of these pitchers have shown me at times that they can be a good depth pitcher in the rotation. So law of averages would suggest that at least one of them can make an impact for this upcoming season.

Having said that, veteran pitching is always nice to acquire.


Any depth at pitching is always good. More times than not, pitchers will go down no matter how short or long. McGowan got one more year picked up so he is not forced to make the big league to avoid clear waivers, but I grow impatient with his potential.

I think Towers will have a bounceback year. Janssen should stay in AAA and Marcum could be the #6 starter, in case of injury.

[wesleyw]

If we can get Wells at a bargain, or low-base, heavy performance based contract, it might not be a bad signing.

[kevin01]

http://zwire.townnews.biz/site/news.cfm?notn=1&ncdr=1&newsid=17721148&BRD=1675&PAG=461&dept_id=18170&rfi=6

Gilick passes on rios for Brett Myers straight....

You can expect to see six established, big-league starting pitchers in Clearwater when the pitchers and catchers report Feb. 15.

Gillick hoped to trade one of his starters -- preferably right-hander Jon Lieber -- for some bullpen help. However, when asked if he had received any competitive offers for Lieber or any other starter, Gillick flatly responded, "No."

The juiciest rumor to emerge concerning a Phillies’ starter didn’t involve Lieber and didn’t involve a reliever coming to the Phils. The Blue Jays reportedly made an attempt to deal young, talented outfielder Alex Rios to the Phils straight-up for Brett Myers, but that attempt fell on deaf ears.

"I think these will be the guys we’ll start camp with," Gillick said of his starting rotation, "but I don’t know if this will be the team we end up with."

Would he be willing to take a sextet into the regular season?

"If we can’t get what we think is equal value for (the extra starting pitcher)," Gillick said, "then we’ll open up with six. We’re not going to give someone away."

If that deal ever went through i would be so happy. Myers is a great pitcher with ace potential...


where should glaus bat now? A lot of people think it should be 6th, but i say 5th is where he would be best

johnson
rios
wells
thomas
glaus
overbay
hill
zaun
clayont/mcdonald

U can switch overbay with glaus, or rios with overbay... a good bad situation for the blue jays offense this year.

[skyblue12]

they better not trade rios away..

i got his jersey a few weeks before last season ended, i'll be pretty pissed if he gets traded away this upcoming season.

:|

[spike-spiegel]

http://zwire.townnews.biz/site/news.cfm?notn=1&ncdr=1&newsid=17721148&BRD=1675&PAG=461&dept_id=18170&rfi=6

Gilick passes on rios for Brett Myers straight....

You can expect to see six established, big-league starting pitchers in Clearwater when the pitchers and catchers report Feb. 15.

Gillick hoped to trade one of his starters -- preferably right-hander Jon Lieber -- for some bullpen help. However, when asked if he had received any competitive offers for Lieber or any other starter, Gillick flatly responded, "No."

The juiciest rumor to emerge concerning a Phillies’ starter didn’t involve Lieber and didn’t involve a reliever coming to the Phils. The Blue Jays reportedly made an attempt to deal young, talented outfielder Alex Rios to the Phils straight-up for Brett Myers, but that attempt fell on deaf ears.

"I think these will be the guys we’ll start camp with," Gillick said of his starting rotation, "but I don’t know if this will be the team we end up with."

Would he be willing to take a sextet into the regular season?

"If we can’t get what we think is equal value for (the extra starting pitcher)," Gillick said, "then we’ll open up with six. We’re not going to give someone away."

If that deal ever went through i would be so happy. Myers is a great pitcher with ace potential...


where should glaus bat now? A lot of people think it should be 6th, but i say 5th is where he would be best

johnson
rios
wells
thomas
glaus
overbay
hill
zaun
clayont/mcdonald

U can switch overbay with glaus, or rios with overbay... a good bad situation for the blue jays offense this year.


Myers would have been nice but Rios would be a steep price, and Myers only has two more years under control left.

I think Hill could bat second too, but Rios is good there too. Put Overbay fifth, Glaus sixth. Break up the righties and have use Glaus to protect Overbay. Overbay has better OBP and doubles to drive in Thomas, with Glaus potentially clearing the bases.

[Spray]

regardless of what happens...it's gonna be an exciting season.

[Hanniganite]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/article.jsp?content=20070123_143852_4916

Jays add Tomo Ohka pending a physical...$1.5 mil/1 year...up to another $1.5mil in incentives.

I like it...he's not a sure thing but he's more than capable of being a good #5 in the rotation...and not costly either.

[spike-spiegel]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/article.jsp?content=20070123_143852_4916

Jays add Tomo Ohka pending a physical...$1.5 mil/1 year...up to another $1.5mil in incentives.

I like it...he's not a sure thing but he's more than capable of being a good #5 in the rotation...and not costly either.


The theme of last off-season: throw money at the free agents.
The theme of this off-season: nobody wants our money so sign some leftover broken pitching who wants to come here!

Not bad tho, after losing out on Lilly and Meche, now we have two veterans who have something to prove to earn their next big paycheque.

[Ogata]

Not a bad signing at all considering we have not had any Japanese Influence except for Mike Nakamura which was a failed experiment. Now we have our own. Too bad we couldn't get Igawa... curse the stupid bid for right. It should be like the NHL when it comes to these things.

[normistheman]

Adding pitching depth never hurts.
Can always package assets for a better player.
So it's an alright signing.

[gstrgreg]

first Thomson and now Ohka for cheap

JP isnt as dumb as he looks :cheesygri

[NDman]

Adding depth is nice. I am not entirely sold on Ohka though. But at least that should get the young guys going that they need to put up a fight to get a spot in the rotation. Another decent signing by JP this off season

[kevin01]

Adding depth is nice. I am not entirely sold on Ohka though. But at least that should get the young guys going that they need to put up a fight to get a spot in the rotation. Another decent signing by JP this off season

I think JP is ready to make a deal that will have two young pitchers and a batter for a good starting pitcher... if not then the rotation is pretty much set.

[gordholio]

http://zwire.townnews.biz/site/news.cfm?notn=1&ncdr=1&newsid=17721148&BRD=1675&PAG=461&dept_id=18170&rfi=6

Gilick passes on rios for Brett Myers straight....

You can expect to see six established, big-league starting pitchers in Clearwater when the pitchers and catchers report Feb. 15.

Gillick hoped to trade one of his starters -- preferably right-hander Jon Lieber -- for some bullpen help. However, when asked if he had received any competitive offers for Lieber or any other starter, Gillick flatly responded, "No."

The juiciest rumor to emerge concerning a Phillies’ starter didn’t involve Lieber and didn’t involve a reliever coming to the Phils. The Blue Jays reportedly made an attempt to deal young, talented outfielder Alex Rios to the Phils straight-up for Brett Myers, but that attempt fell on deaf ears.

"I think these will be the guys we’ll start camp with," Gillick said of his starting rotation, "but I don’t know if this will be the team we end up with."

Would he be willing to take a sextet into the regular season?

"If we can’t get what we think is equal value for (the extra starting pitcher)," Gillick said, "then we’ll open up with six. We’re not going to give someone away."

If that deal ever went through i would be so happy. Myers is a great pitcher with ace potential...


where should glaus bat now? A lot of people think it should be 6th, but i say 5th is where he would be best

johnson
rios
wells
thomas
glaus
overbay
hill
zaun
clayont/mcdonald

U can switch overbay with glaus, or rios with overbay... a good bad situation for the blue jays offense this year.

Who is Brett Myers? Never even heard of him.
If I were the Blue Jays, I would definitely not trade a guy (Rios) who is on the verge of becoming a star.

[normistheman]

Who is Brett Myers? Never even heard of him.
If I were the Blue Jays, I would definitely not trade a guy (Rios) who is on the verge of becoming a star.

Brett Myers is a very good pitcher now, and has the potential to be a #2 starter on a contending team. Picture him like an A.J. Burnett without the injury problems. His stuff is not as nasty as A.J.'s, but it's close to it.

If the Jays were offered Myers straight up for Rios, I would do it.

[Smashy]

Brett Myers is a very good pitcher now, and has the potential to be a #2 starter on a contending team. Picture him like an A.J. Burnett without the injury problems. His stuff is not as nasty as A.J.'s, but it's close to it.

If the Jays were offered Myers straight up for Rios, I would do it.

Ya I would do it also!

Actually, I think Myers has developed ahead of Burnett at this point. And in terms of "stuff," I don't think Myers hits the century mark with his fastball like Burnett does, but he's high 90s and has a sickk curveball.

[thelefteyeguy]

I think the game plan should be getting 10 runs on the first inning and wait to see it the opponents forefeits...

doh...i don't think the 10 runs rule is in effect in mlb.

:)


ohwell...i'm still not terribly optimistic our our chances with 1.5 pitchers in the rotation.

[gordholio]

Brett Myers is a very good pitcher now, and has the potential to be a #2 starter on a contending team. Picture him like an A.J. Burnett without the injury problems. His stuff is not as nasty as A.J.'s, but it's close to it.

If the Jays were offered Myers straight up for Rios, I would do it.

I had never heard of him, but he sounds like a good up and coming pitcher.
Maybe it would be a good trade.

[EZman]

I predict that Shaun Marcum will stand out from the bunch this season. Anyone know how long was Burnettes contract?
thx

[normistheman]

I predict that Shaun Marcum will stand out from the bunch this season. Anyone know how long was Burnettes contract?
thx

5 years, $55 million.

After the salaries this year for free agents, the Jays got a bargain, if healthy.

[skyblue12]

5 years 55 mil i think?

[Smashy]

I think the game plan should be getting 10 runs on the first inning and wait to see it the opponents forefeits...

doh...i don't think the 10 runs rule is in effect in mlb.

:)


ohwell...i'm still not terribly optimistic our our chances with 1.5 pitchers in the rotation.

It's probably going to the bats that win most of the games for the Jays this year, but Ohka, Thomson, and Chacin can each hang around .500. If you count on Halladay for maybe 10 wins above .500, you've got a 90 win season.. then maybe Burnett can be a couple over .500 too.

These veteran guys aren't too bad. Not anything special, but they'll give the bats a chance to win it on most nights.

[gstrgreg]

the Jays signed Victor Zambrano to a minor league contract

He is still recovering from elbow surgery which took him out of all of the 06 season.

[Tofu Drift Shinji]

Now that we're stock-piling the arms, it should be interesting to see how the whole pitching situation pans out during spring training.

[spike-spiegel]

Zambrano might not be fully recovered from surgery until near the all-star break. So he might provide a boost in relief or starter then but definitely not immediately into the season.

A little injured insurance for some other injured pitchers.:lol:

[normistheman]

If he's even half as good as Carlos Zambrano, then it will be a good pick up.

[NDman]

If he's even half as good as Carlos Zambrano, then it will be a good pick up.
But Victor isn't nearly half as good. :P It's a good insurance pickup. Mets essentially gave away Kazmir for nothing. It was a bad trade to begin with and now it just looks doubly worse

[Smashy]

But Victor isn't nearly half as good. :P It's a good insurance pickup. Mets essentially gave away Kazmir for nothing. It was a bad trade to begin with and now it just looks doubly worse

Yeah he's not nearly half as good as Carlos, but he's a veteran pitcher and pitchers are always welcome. What he shares in common with Carlos Zambrano are the last name and the lack of control.

[EZman]

Was Victor Zambrano good before his elbow injury?

[Hanniganite]

He's pretty much just insurance for halfway through the season if the Jays suffer a lot of setbacks (injuries, under-performing pitchers). Jays stocking up on pitchers is good...doesn't hurt to have more than you need; a lot better than being short.

[Smashy]

Was Victor Zambrano good before his elbow injury?

I wouldn't use the word "good" to describe him...

He's a mediocre pitcher at best but when he's healthy he's a veteran pitcher who will eat up some innings and give you about a .500 record. His numbers are very mediocre all across the board but wins about half his games.

For the same reason, I don't really like Chacin - his numbers are horrible. If I had to use only peripherals OR record to pick a pitcher, I'd go by peripheral numbers because wins are more dependent on them than the other way around, IMO.

[actyper]

Like Jack Morris. Crappy numbers all the time, but always wins 20 games.

[wesleyw]

Dont mind the signing. He could potentially be a low-risk, high reward pitcher. If he pitches .500 after the break or better, that will hold it together, and if he tanks, move on to the next guy.

[skyblue12]

I wouldn't use the word "good" to describe him...

He's a mediocre pitcher at best but when he's healthy he's a veteran pitcher who will eat up some innings and give you about a .500 record. His numbers are very mediocre all across the board but wins about half his games.

For the same reason, I don't really like Chacin - his numbers are horrible. If I had to use only peripherals OR record to pick a pitcher, I'd go by peripheral numbers because wins are more dependent on them than the other way around, IMO.

are u refering to chacin's numbers after or before his injury? didn't he go like 9-3 after he came back from injury? i think he's a potential 3rd or 4th pitcher in the jays rotation.. his era isn't that great, but he still has a positive record and in the end that's really what matters.. winning games.

[kevin01]

are u refering to chacin's numbers after or before his injury? didn't he go like 9-3 after he came back from injury? i think he's a potential 3rd or 4th pitcher in the jays rotation.. his era isn't that great, but he still has a positive record and in the end that's really what matters.. winning games.

yeah but they are complaining about his stats such as era, hits, ks, walks. chacin wins with run support, and people think of that as a bad thing. with chacin pitching for the blue jays, do any of you not think that this trend will continue....? the offense has gotten better than last year, he will get more support, he will win around 15 and lose around 8-10. i know they may be abit high, but chacin will do good with this offence.

Predict the records for pitcher:

Halladay : 22-9 Cy Young Winner LOW ERA
Burnett: 18-11 3.80 ERA
Chacin: 14-10 4.6 ERA
Thompson: 7-8 4.8 ERA
Ohka/all 5th pitchers combine: 5-13 just bad...

blue jays runs per game: 8.5;) lol im thinking nothing but positive this year. and i know some of these numbers wont come true but i wish they do.

[skyblue12]

yeah but they are complaining about his stats such as era, hits, ks, walks. chacin wins with run support, and people think of that as a bad thing. with chacin pitching for the blue jays, do any of you not think that this trend will continue....? the offense has gotten better than last year, he will get more support, he will win around 15 and lose around 8-10. i know they may be abit high, but chacin will do good with this offence.

Predict the records for pitcher:

Halladay : 22-9 Cy Young Winner LOW ERA
Burnett: 18-11 3.80 ERA
Chacin: 14-10 4.6 ERA
Thompson: 7-8 4.8 ERA
Ohka/all 5th pitchers combine: 5-13 just bad...

blue jays runs per game: 8.5;) lol im thinking nothing but positive this year. and i know some of these numbers wont come true but i wish they do.

i somewhat agree with most of the numbers u posted.. perhaps a higher ERA for either chacin or thompson (one of them might have an ERA above 5)

however, from what i've seen in marcum, janssen, etc, i don't think the 5th spot on the rotation will that bad. perhaps in the beginning of the season they won't win many games, but as the season goes on i think they're definitely capable of putting up a record around or a bit below .500, and not a mediocre record.

this is all assuming that our pitchers stay healthy though.

[kevin01]

i somewhat agree with most of the numbers u posted.. perhaps a higher ERA for either chacin or thompson (one of them might have an ERA above 5)

however, from what i've seen in marcum, janssen, etc, i don't think the 5th spot on the rotation will that bad. perhaps in the beginning of the season they won't win many games, but as the season goes on i think they're definitely capable of putting up a record around or a bit below .500, and not a mediocre record.

this is all assuming that our pitchers stay healthy though.

i know where you are coming from on the 5th starters but i based my numbers on the inconsistency of those pitchers. i am sure that there will be a bad month for them, and i think theyll go 1-4 or 1-5 in a month, but will be good down the stretch going 3-0 in the last 3 starts for the 5th starters.

[kevin01]

whats your one wish for this season, regarding gibons?

Mine would be that he doesnt go to the bullpen as often and early as last year. and he becomes less reluctant to use B.J

[skyblue12]

whats your one wish for this season, regarding gibons?

Mine would be that he doesnt go to the bullpen as often and early as last year. and he becomes less reluctant to use B.J

i think gibby knows what he's doing.. however i do agree that during certain situations last season he made the wrong decision, but on the most part i think he was right. maybe the results don't show that, but in terms of knowing when to pull a pitcher, i think gibby does a good job.

as for BJ, i'm sure most managers in the league want to keep their closers healthy, so i don't mind BJ not being used as much. last year there weren't that many games for him to save (compared to the previous seasons he had) since a lot of the games that the jays won were by more than 3 runs. i think as long as BJ stays healthy and gets some innings of work, he'll be fine. i don't think gibby was reluctant in using BJ last season, it's just that there weren't many occasions where we really needed him to close out a game (especially the second half of the season).

[NDman]

Rios, Johnson and Downs all signed. Now the roster is pretty much set for Spring training.

http://tsn.ca/mlb/news_story/?ID=194646&hubname=

[kevin01]

i think gibby knows what he's doing.. however i do agree that during certain situations last season he made the wrong decision, but on the most part i think he was right. maybe the results don't show that, but in terms of knowing when to pull a pitcher, i think gibby does a good job.

as for BJ, i'm sure most managers in the league want to keep their closers healthy, so i don't mind BJ not being used as much. last year there weren't that many games for him to save (compared to the previous seasons he had) since a lot of the games that the jays won were by more than 3 runs. i think as long as BJ stays healthy and gets some innings of work, he'll be fine. i don't think gibby was reluctant in using BJ last season, it's just that there weren't many occasions where we really needed him to close out a game (especially the second half of the season).

There were A LOT of occasions where i can just remember sitting on my couch thinking where BJ was. I cant rememeber any specific ones, but i am sure there were.

but gibby should give some of the younger pitches more innings. I remember last season the jays were losing 1-0 in the middle of the 5th, and gibby went to the bullpen, forgot the starter but it was one of the fifth ones. He did that a couple of times, just let them play if the games close. But maybe that can be alright this season as the bullpen should be better than last year.


Oh and did anyone see that morneau got a 1 yr 4.5 mil contract !?!?!?!?!?!?! is that the max, because with the recent contracts being signed hes worth atleast $13-$15 million.

[spike-spiegel]

There were A LOT of occasions where i can just remember sitting on my couch thinking where BJ was. I cant rememeber any specific ones, but i am sure there were.

but gibby should give some of the younger pitches more innings. I remember last season the jays were losing 1-0 in the middle of the 5th, and gibby went to the bullpen, forgot the starter but it was one of the fifth ones. He did that a couple of times, just let them play if the games close. But maybe that can be alright this season as the bullpen should be better than last year.


Oh and did anyone see that morneau got a 1 yr 4.5 mil contract !?!?!?!?!?!?! is that the max, because with the recent contracts being signed hes worth atleast $13-$15 million.


Gibbons admitted he HAD to use BJ Ryan in a lot of 1+ innings for saves in too many situations pre-all star game last year. The starters were going down like flies and the bullpen was overworked, so BJ had to pick up some late innning slack. That's why BJ hit a wall mid-season.

Remember, as of AUgust, Jays were in contention. When a team is expected and contending for the playoffs, there isn't room to "allow young talent to develop". The manager should be doing whatever he can to win games. Sure, Gibbons made some questionable bullpen moves that lost some games but for the most part he got it right. Just because the results were different doesn't mean it was the wrong call. Sometimes relievers just fail.

[EZman]

Oh and did anyone see that morneau got a 1 yr 4.5 mil contract !?!?!?!?!?!?! is that the max, because with the recent contracts being signed hes worth atleast $13-$15 million.

I know, that's cheap considering that he was AL MVP, and we paid Frank Thomas way more, maybe its because he wasn't a free agent just an extension, I dunno. :confused:

[kevin01]

I know, that's cheap considering that he was AL MVP, and we paid Frank Thomas way more, maybe its because he wasn't a free agent just an extension, I dunno. :confused:

it has to be the max or something. is he a free agent next summer? if so, too bad we cant use him since we have overbay. lol unless JP pulls off a trade

[rdtx2002]

to Spike et al.

anyone doing fantasy baseball?

[wesleyw]

Theres usually a RFD pool or two each season.

[spike-spiegel]

to Spike et al.

anyone doing fantasy baseball?

I usually avoid pools because they are big procrastinations. I've never done a baseball pool though.


I know, that's cheap considering that he was AL MVP, and we paid Frank Thomas way more, maybe its because he wasn't a free agent just an extension, I dunno. :confused:

Morneau was just an extension to avoid arbitration. He belongs in a group of player eligible for arbitration but remains under team control for the first six service years. I think there is a limit on much of a raise he can get, hence only $4.5M for a MVP season.

Rios was a Super Two player so he went from $350k to $2.5 million

MLB's free agent system is a lot more complex than the other sports. Very confusing... :confused: :confused:

[EZman]

Thanks spike-spiegel the deal is apprehensible now.
BTW speaking of Alex Rios, last season he had a semi-breakout year, does anyone think he will have a full-out breakout season like Ryan Howard? I am being optimistic, and say that at least two Jays will have very good seasons. (Not including veterans like Halladay, Thomas...)
Which players do you think will arise and shine?

[skyblue12]

Thanks spike-spiegel the deal is apprehensible now.
BTW speaking of Alex Rios, last season he had a semi-breakout year, does anyone think he will have a full-out breakout season like Ryan Howard? I am being optimistic, and say that at least two Jays will have very good seasons. (Not including veterans like Halladay, Thomas...)
Which players do you think will arise and shine?

i think if rios never had that staph injury last season, he would've had a great season. of course i'm not saying he would have had a ryan howard type of season (i don't think alex will ever be capable of hitting 40+ homers, or maybe even 30+) but i think compared to the previous 2 seasons he had with the jays, he would've exploded in terms of hr/rbi. he had 15 (or 16?) homers before he had his injury, which was already 5 more he had hit the whole previous season, and the jays weren't even at the halfway mark of the season.

i'm hoping rios will be able to do what he did at the beginning of last season, and i hope he can stay healthy so we know what he's capable of when he's healthy.

[normistheman]

I think that if Rios doesn't get traded, he will have an even better season than last. Will it translate to even better power numbers? Probably not as dramatic; but 25 HR's seems like a reasonable goal.
Having said that, where will he bat in the order???

[skyblue12]

I think that if Rios doesn't get traded, he will have an even better season than last. Will it translate to even better power numbers? Probably not as dramatic; but 25 HR's seems like a reasonable goal.
Having said that, where will he bat in the order???

hopefully second? behind johnson like he did last season. but maybe hill will take that spot.

and yes, i think 25 hr/ 80 rbi is definitely a reasonable goal. even for him last season, if he never got injured he might have reached it.

[kevin01]

hopefully second? behind johnson like he did last season. but maybe hill will take that spot.

and yes, i think 25 hr/ 80 rbi is definitely a reasonable goal. even for him last season, if he never got injured he might have reached it.

yeah hell probaby bad 2nd.

johnson
rios
wells
thomas
overbay/glaus
glaus/overbay
hill
zaun
clayton/mcdonald

i think the 4th and 5th spots are tough because glaus does not have a great obp. he strikes out a lot, and overbay is a double hitting machine. Dont know, its a win win situation anyways. I think the blue jays have the best offence with rios in the lineup, than without. with this offense, chacin wont have a hard time winning games. if thompson stays healthy, watch out yankees.

Whos going to the home opener vs KC?

[skyblue12]

yeah hell probaby bad 2nd.

johnson
rios
wells
thomas
overbay/glaus
glaus/overbay
hill
zaun
clayton/mcdonald

i think the 4th and 5th spots are tough because glaus does not have a great obp. he strikes out a lot, and overbay is a double hitting machine. Dont know, its a win win situation anyways. I think the blue jays have the best offence with rios in the lineup, than without. with this offense, chacin wont have a hard time winning games. if thompson stays healthy, watch out yankees.

Whos going to the home opener vs KC?

hopefully i'll be able to go :)

[EZman]

^ I know that I'm going, do you think there will be 25,000+ people in attendance?

[skyblue12]

^ I know that I'm going, do you think there will be 25,000+ people in attendance?

season openers always have a TON of people. i believe last year for the season opener there were like 40,000+ (i think) it's just that as the season goes on there's less, except for the bosox and yankees games.

[canabiz]

season openers always have a TON of people. i believe last year for the season opener there were like 40,000+ (i think) it's just that as the season goes on there's less, except for the bosox and yankees games.

I just don't think attending baseball games are high on people's radar in the summer. If the Jays make the playoff then yeah people will tune in and come out to the parks

[skyblue12]

I just don't think attending baseball games are high on people's radar in the summer. If the Jays make the playoff then yeah people will tune in and come out to the parks

yeah i agree, i think more people should come out and watch a game, it's not exactly that expensive, even if u sit in the lower levels

[Hanniganite]

Why KC for home opener...ew...Matt Stairs' old team, how intriguing!

I'd go to Jays games if I could find someone to go with...bought Raps tickets for the first time this year because I found someone else who is a fan.

[normistheman]

I still remember George Bell in 1988. A year after winning AL MVP, knocked 3 Homers on opening day against Saberhagen and the Royals.
Too bad George had a crappy year the rest of the way.

[skyblue12]

Why KC for home opener...ew...Matt Stairs' old team, how intriguing!

I'd go to Jays games if I could find someone to go with...bought Raps tickets for the first time this year because I found someone else who is a fan.

+1

it's no fun at all going to a game by urself, or even with a person who doesn't know the game. that's why it's a problem for me sometimes, cause many of my friends hate baseball, and my parents, who like baseball, aren't always available.

speaking of tickets.. i had 2 free tickets for the rogers open last year so i invited my friend and it wasn't the best seat, and in turn my friend invited me to a raps game and the seats were SICKK :) section 109 (or something really low) and like row 3 or something.

[Hanniganite]

Looks like a 1-year extension for Gibbons:
http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070219&content_id=1807286&vkey=spt2007news&fext=.jsp&c_id=tor

[canabiz]

Read a story in the National Post today about Josh *The Terrible* Towers getting up at 05:00 every morning to do workouts, in the hopes of getting back on track

Comforting news to say the least

[Ogata]

yeah i agree, i think more people should come out and watch a game, it's not exactly that expensive, even if u sit in the lower levels

Compared to Leafs fans even when they are dead last, the ACC will still be filled...you think? No offense by the way, its just all my friends are hockey freaks and hate baseball because they think its a very crappy sport.

[kevin01]

Read a story in the National Post today about Josh *The Terrible* Towers getting up at 05:00 every morning to do workouts, in the hopes of getting back on track

Comforting news to say the least

Yeah he says that he really wants to do good because he doest want another minor league contract. He says that everything off the field in his life is great and he hopes to rebound and play like he did in 03, 04, 05.

I think the contract gibbons got was just another test year. I bet the Jays offered 3 years at this price, but gibbons thinks hes worth more so they gave him one more year to see what he can do.

If he wants a raise, he can start by starting to let players steal more bases this season. I remember at the start of the 2005 season all the players talked about was stealing bases. They said they wanted to be aggressive, but they still dont run. Im sure we couldve won a few more games had the jays stolen more bases and taken advantage of weaker pitchers. This year, stealing bases will pay out a lot with thomas and glaus batting in order.

[spike-spiegel]

Yeah he says that he really wants to do good because he doest want another minor league contract. He says that everything off the field in his life is great and he hopes to rebound and play like he did in 03, 04, 05.

I think the contract gibbons got was just another test year. I bet the Jays offered 3 years at this price, but gibbons thinks hes worth more so they gave him one more year to see what he can do.

If he wants a raise, he can start by starting to let players steal more bases this season. I remember at the start of the 2005 season all the players talked about was stealing bases. They said they wanted to be aggressive, but they still dont run. Im sure we couldve won a few more games had the jays stolen more bases and taken advantage of weaker pitchers. This year, stealing bases will pay out a lot with thomas and glaus batting in order.


I think the contract was just to divert attention away from his contract status. No more media bugging him about his contract talks during the season. And Gibbons no longer has that mentality of "one shot, one year", which affects manager with relief decisions and developing youth (think Mitchell with Bargnani at the beginning of the year, he is in contract year didn't want to develop a young guy over a veteran that could help the team now).

Stealing bases is not part of the GM (JP)'s philosophy I believe. I think he believes the risk outweigh the gain in stealing bases, that is why the team is not built too much around speed if at all. The team doesn't really have any awesome base stealer, best one is probably Reed, then Vernon and Rios. Plus it doesn't matter where they are for Thomas and Glaus since they are mashers and they'll come around home anyways. I personally think base stealing is overrated in the AL East, where it is mainly power hitters.

I think Gibbons should concentrate more on PREVENTING stolen bases (as they are doing in Spring Training).

[kevin01]

I think the contract was just to divert attention away from his contract status. No more media bugging him about his contract talks during the season. And Gibbons no longer has that mentality of "one shot, one year", which affects manager with relief decisions and developing youth (think Mitchell with Bargnani at the beginning of the year, he is in contract year didn't want to develop a young guy over a veteran that could help the team now).

Stealing bases is not part of the GM (JP)'s philosophy I believe. I think he believes the risk outweigh the gain in stealing bases, that is why the team is not built too much around speed if at all. The team doesn't really have any awesome base stealer, best one is probably Reed, then Vernon and Rios. Plus it doesn't matter where they are for Thomas and Glaus since they are mashers and they'll come around home anyways. I personally think base stealing is overrated in the AL East, where it is mainly power hitters.

I think Gibbons should concentrate more on PREVENTING stolen bases (as they are doing in Spring Training).

lol its a good think if reed vernon and rios steal more, better chance for thomas and glaus to drive em in. Yeah stealing might be overrated, but every team needs to do some of it. The Jays did it rarely last year and sometimes in key situations where they should have. I can just remember Benjie stealing LOL

[canabiz]

Compared to Leafs fans even when they are dead last, the ACC will still be filled...you think? No offense by the way, its just all my friends are hockey freaks and hate baseball because they think its a very crappy sport.

No offense either (and you can do a search on my previous post about this) but I would rather go see a baseball game in the summer (starting May-June) than going to a hockey arena. The NHL should really consider finishing the season around end of May at the latest. Anything longer than that and it's just retarted

[Ogata]

No offense either (and you can do a search on my previous post about this) but I would rather go see a baseball game in the summer (starting May-June) than going to a hockey arena. The NHL should really consider finishing the season around end of May at the latest. Anything longer than that and it's just retarted

I agree too but the thing with some people I know is. They pull the Stereotype of if your Canadian, you play/ do some form of hockey. Anyways, Gibbons extension only means that he will have to prove to us he can pull us into the playoffs this season. Who can replace Gibbons when hes gone? Cito Gaston said last season he wasn't going to manage a game again. :cry:

[canabiz]

Long and detailed story in the Sun today regarding Shea Hillenbrand's last moments with the Jays.

http://www.torontosun.com/Sports/Baseball/2007/02/22/3654227-sun.html

He mentions that, among other things, J.P. is a big bully and there was a lot of distractions in the clubhouse

As is the case with any other story, it's nice to hear both sides of the fence. I wish Shea the best of luck in his new positions and i certainly would hate to see him coming back and biting the Jays in the ass (He's playing for the Angels in the American League and they will meet the Jays a few times this season)

[spike-spiegel]

Long and detailed story in the Sun today regarding Shea Hillenbrand's last moments with the Jays.

http://www.torontosun.com/Sports/Baseball/2007/02/22/3654227-sun.html

He mentions that, among other things, J.P. is a big bully and there was a lot of distractions in the clubhouse

As is the case with any other story, it's nice to hear both sides of the fence. I wish Shea the best of luck in his new positions and i certainly would hate to see him coming back and biting the Jays in the ass (He's playing for the Angels in the American League and they will meet the Jays a few times this season)


Well, we haven't really heard the other side's FULL story since JP and managment decided to move on, unlike Hillenbrand here.

I think Hillenbrand can't be seen as a credible source. He has a history of clashes with managment. It was obvious in his time here he was frustrated with playing time and other stuff, that is no secret.

That said, I can see JP be very hands-on.

Hillenbrand inflated his own self-worth (especially on defence) and I think his frustration over playing time was negative in the clubhouse. He's a competitor, but I think he rubbed off wrongly on some people.

[spike-spiegel]

http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/images/2007/02/23/cVAg7LVn.jpg
http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070223&content_id=1813554&vkey=spt2007news&fext=.jsp&c_id=tor

DUNEDIN, Fla. -- It all was too overwhelming for Jo Matumoto. As he sat with reporters, answering questions about his improbable journey to Toronto's Major League camp, the pitcher wiped away a tear.

Matumoto turned to his wife, Maria Fernanda De Luca, and spoke softly in Portuguese. They smiled at each other, and De Luca translated his words for those in the room.

"I'm still dreaming," he said. "I never thought that I would be here."


36 and still with a dream in the Majors, now almost realized. Let's hope he makes it, could be useful relief or lefty specialist. Would be a wonderful ending to the underdog story!

[skyblue12]

shea who? :confused:

[Ogata]

who cares about Shea and how the clubhouse is run. As long as they don't show it outside and to the media...who cares? We don't need to hear any of that stuff and yes whoever said Shea is now the Vince Carter of the Jays, we can start to boo now. Perhaps what we did with Shannon Stewart?

[canabiz]

who cares about Shea and how the clubhouse is run. As long as they don't show it outside and to the media...who cares? We don't need to hear any of that stuff and yes whoever said Shea is now the Vince Carter of the Jays, we can start to boo now. Perhaps what we did with Shannon Stewart?


Why should you boo Shannon Stewart ? He put in some good #s for us when he was here and he was traded to the Twins, supposedly to reduce the payroll. That ain't his faults.

[skyblue12]

who cares about Shea and how the clubhouse is run. As long as they don't show it outside and to the media...who cares? We don't need to hear any of that stuff and yes whoever said Shea is now the Vince Carter of the Jays, we can start to boo now.

+1

[Ogata]

Why should you boo Shannon Stewart ? He put in some good #s for us when he was here and he was traded to the Twins, supposedly to reduce the payroll. That ain't his faults.

I didn't say I would boo him. Were you not at opening day last season? The fans over at left were booing and cussing at him. What was ironic was he hit a HR to shut those people up. (I sat at the 200 level :lol: )

[Madchester]

Why should you boo Shannon Stewart ? He put in some good #s for us when he was here and he was traded to the Twins, supposedly to reduce the payroll. That ain't his faults.

I think it's ironic that he gets to play with Bobby Kelity now

[kevin01]

I think it's ironic that he gets to play with Bobby Kelity now

yeah i remember him. made that one catcher soon after coming here

[spike-spiegel]

I didn't say I would boo him. Were you not at opening day last season? The fans over at left were booing and cussing at him. What was ironic was he hit a HR to shut those people up. (I sat at the 200 level :lol: )

Everyone was wondering why Stewart was being booed. It was just a bunch of drunks who started to boo because he was ex-Jay. Stewart was nothing but good here.

[Madchester]

Shannon Stewart was crying when he learned of his trade to the Twins. Of course, he ended up placing 5th or 6th in MVP balloting that yr, but the fact is Stewart grew up with the Jays organization for a good decade or so.

[canabiz]

Shannon Stewart was crying when he learned of his trade to the Twins. Of course, he ended up placing 5th or 6th in MVP balloting that yr, but the fact is Stewart grew up with the Jays organization for a good decade or so.

I can't remember if it was J.P. who traded Shannon away but i would have to say that wasn't the best move he made. Again hindsight is 20/20 but Shannon was definitely missed.

[spike-spiegel]

I can't remember if it was J.P. who traded Shannon away but i would have to say that wasn't the best move he made. Again hindsight is 20/20 but Shannon was definitely missed.

I think it was a salary dump more than anything. I think Stewart was going to be a free agent or command a lot in arbitration, and Jays didn't have the budget back then. But too bad JP didn't get a better deal than Kiety.

[skyblue12]

preseason started today!

[canabiz]

Russ Adams looks to be the odd man out with Royce Clayton *mentoring* Hill

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/sports/story.html?id=be8bb878-e748-4e86-b1a1-31e6361f402d

Russ is still a young buck, but the mental mistakes last year were at times too much. I hope for his sake, he rebounds and be a productive major-leaguer

[skyblue12]

Russ Adams looks to be the odd man out with Royce Clayton *mentoring* Hill

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/sports/story.html?id=be8bb878-e748-4e86-b1a1-31e6361f402d

Russ is still a young buck, but the mental mistakes last year were at times too much. I hope for his sake, he rebounds and be a productive major-leaguer

i hope so too, but i doubt he'll be able to take reed johnson's spot back as lead-off. i think for a part of the season (2 seasons ago?) russ was a pretty good lead-off hitter, but after last year, it's hard to gain back the confidence he had. he's still young though, and i think he'll be able to be a pretty good SS or 2nd baseman if he gains his confidence back.

[skyblue12]

the jays have started preseason 2-0 (which doesn't really mean anything)

chacin got pulled before 2 innings ended though :|

[wesellanythingcanada]

Go Jays :)

[skyblue12]

jays haven't been that good recently in preseason action ): i think they've dropped 4-5 games straight.

luckily josh towers is looking good early on, 3 innings of 2-hit ball the other day.

[spike-spiegel]

jays haven't been that good recently in preseason action ): i think they've dropped 4-5 games straight.

luckily josh towers is looking good early on, 3 innings of 2-hit ball the other day.

Grapefruit games don't matter. Like exhibition games don't matter.

Right now, Thomson looks good for the #4 slot. Towers have been pretty good and Ohka has been inconsistent. Janssen should start in AAA. Marcum has struggled but might make it as a long relief although I think he should start in AAA. McGowan is locked for another year of AAA. Zambrano has looked good but should side on caution. League screwed an opportunity given to him.

[NDman]

I am very interested to see how Chacin will fare this season. They tweaked his delivery routine that he speeds thing up in between pitches. So far it's been working. See how long it'll take for the hitters to adjust. Deception is one of the few things that he has going with him. If he can't do that, him and the Jays will be in big trouble

[Ogata]

I am very interested to see how Chacin will fare this season. They tweaked his delivery routine that he speeds thing up in between pitches. So far it's been working. See how long it'll take for the hitters to adjust. Deception is one of the few things that he has going with him. If he can't do that, him and the Jays will be in big trouble

If Chacin does go down, he will be a BP alternative or Thomson/Zambrano/Ohka/Towers wil take over

[NDman]

Zambrano has been a very plesant surprise so far. He's not ready to start yet but he looks ready to relief and has been effective. Looking good.

[kevin01]

Anyone else just excited about Burnett this season? He had an amazing start recently, and i think he can be a top 10 pitcher in the AL this season.

[jling6]

Anyone know a cheap place in the GTA that carries the new authentic "59FIFTY" on-field cap? It is newly redesigned for the 2007 season and is made with 100% polyester to avoid shrinkage.

http://mlb.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pMLB2-3537919reg.jpg
$31.99 USD at shop.mlb.com: http://shop.mlb.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2626750&clickid=body_rv_txt

[spike-spiegel]

Anyone know a cheap place in the GTA that carries the new authentic "59FIFTY" on-field cap? It is newly redesigned for the 2007 season and is made with 100% polyester to avoid shrinkage.

http://mlb.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pMLB2-3537919reg.jpg
$31.99 USD at shop.mlb.com: http://shop.mlb.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2626750&clickid=body_rv_txt

NOW they start making it anti-shrink? One of my old grey ones shrink. All distorted now, unwearable. It sucks. What a ripoff. I don't like New Era.

[jling6]

NOW they start making it anti-shrink? One of my old grey ones shrink. All distorted now, unwearable. It sucks. What a ripoff. I don't like New Era.

Yeah, I also had the old 100% wool authentic ones. It shrunk within a few months of wear.

[nano]

Anyone know a cheap place in the GTA that carries the new authentic "59FIFTY" on-field cap? It is newly redesigned for the 2007 season and is made with 100% polyester to avoid shrinkage.

http://mlb.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pMLB2-3537919reg.jpg
$31.99 USD at shop.mlb.com: http://shop.mlb.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2626750&clickid=body_rv_txt

try si vois play

[kevin01]

Towers is looking good. Hopefully he can get back to his from from 2 years ago, if he does then i think the Jays have a REAL REAL GOOD chance at the East. He can fill Lilly's spot this year.

[webhead15]

Go Jays Go !!!!!!

[gstrgreg]

Top 3 Starting Pitchers this spring

Halladay 9 I.P, 1.00ERA, 3 K
Burnett 6 I.P, 1.50ERA, 7 K
Towers 9 I.P, 2.00ERA, 9 K

[skyblue12]

Top 3 Starting Pitchers this spring

Halladay 9 I.P, 1.00ERA, 3 K
Burnett 6 I.P, 1.50ERA, 7 K
Towers 9 I.P, 2.00ERA, 9 K

towers is doing pretty good.. but i doubt he'll be playing even 4th in the rotation when the regular season comes around. it's nice to see towers back (at least better than what he showed last year) but just because he's getting the job done in grapefruit action doesn't mean he's not going to blow it in the regular season again.

[kevin01]

Chacin oh chacin

[gstrgreg]

Chacin oh chacin

arrested for DUI tsk tsk

[radeonboy]

arrested for DUI tsk tsk

hopefully he smartens up and gets on track >:(

[canabiz]

Very disappointed with Gus.

[webhead15]

Getting CLOSER !!!!! to season opener !!!!!!!

[kevin01]

Rosenthal said that the Jays are looking to trade Thompson now that Towers is playing really well. If thompson makes the opening day lineup, he makes 1.5 million this season, and has $4 million in performance bonuses. He didnt do good his last outing.

[skyblue12]

Rosenthal said that the Jays are looking to trade Thompson now that Towers is playing really well. If thompson makes the opening day lineup, he makes 1.5 million this season, and has $4 million in performance bonuses. He didnt do good his last outing.

thompson hasn't looked good at all :| he's given up like 12 runs in his last two outings.. looks like towers and ohka will be the top competitors for bottom end of the rotation.

[wisdom_kid]

Cant wait till Dustin McGowan (spl?) reaches his potential. He is said to be one of the best pitchers in the future.

[skyblue12]

Cant wait till Dustin McGowan (spl?) reaches his potential. He is said to be one of the best pitchers in the future.

really? :| where did u get that from?

[wisdom_kid]

really? :| where did u get that from?

I remember watching this program on Sportsnet long time ago (2yrs ago), and they were saying that he has great potential and is going to be the future of the Jays. Even last year when he was brought up from the Minors, the commentators were bragging about him.

[skyblue12]

I remember watching this program on Sportsnet long time ago (2yrs ago), and they were saying that he has great potential and is going to be the future of the Jays. Even last year when he was brought up from the Minors, the commentators were bragging about him.

that was 2 years ago :| wasn't that before mcgowan tried to be a starter and failed?

i think he was ok out of the bullpen for us part of last season, but he hasn't really shown me anything amazing. i hope he isn't another one of those toronto players who have a lot of potential but end up as a bust :|

[NDman]

McGowan is never the same after he blew his elbow. League still hasn't quite figured it out how to put commands with his power. His mechanics seems to be a mess now with the numerous pitching coaches trying to tweak his delivery from what I read.

Forget about pitching. The most the Jays have in the system in pitching are B, or B+ at best (Romero and probably Prucey, who were drafted in the same year). The guys to watch right now are Lind, and Snider

[spike-spiegel]

McGowan is never the same after he blew his elbow. League still hasn't quite figured it out how to put commands with his power. His mechanics seems to be a mess now with the numerous pitching coaches trying to tweak his delivery from what I read.

Forget about pitching. The most the Jays have in the system in pitching are B, or B+ at best (Romero and probably Prucey, who were drafted in the same year). The guys to watch right now are Lind, and Snider

Plus McGowan was diagnosed with diabetes, so that set him back further.

McGowan has great stuff, probably as good as Doc, but his command and mental game is holding him back. This year in AAA is his make or break year. He'll either make the team next year or go on waivers. That sucks because he was supposed to have ace potential. I'll gladly settle for him being a starter in the majors.

I disagree about League. His command was much better last year and his stuff is just good. He's longer just throwing that 100mph heat down the middle. Much better command and a good sinker now. Very suitable for the setup, I think he'll do great.

Jays are deep in mediocre pitching. That's what happens when JP's drafting philosophy was to get signable and safer picks rather than high schoolers with higher ceilings.

[kevin01]

You guys need to stay up to date with the Blue Jays. Im not saying this is true, but Richard Griffin said that McGowan has fallen a lot from where he was last season, and his days as a Jay are numbered. Going from untouchable to being close to traded, McGowan is "mentally" done with the Jays, and will not pitch for them again.

I dont know if its true or not, but Griffin does like to BS.

Oh yeah, Towers was bad today againts Philly. 4 ER or 5 i forgot in 4.2 innings pitched. Jays lost 10-6

[canabiz]

Until I see some consistent performances in Towers, he can't be counted on as a 4th or 5th guy in our rotations. A spot in the bull-pen would be spotty at best as well.

I wouldn't bet my Canadian Tire money on him.

[thelefteyeguy]

You guys need to stay up to date with the Blue Jays. Im not saying this is true, but Richard Griffin said that McGowan has fallen a lot from where he was last season, and his days as a Jay are numbered. Going from untouchable to being close to traded, McGowan is "mentally" done with the Jays, and will not pitch for them again.

I dont know if its true or not, but Griffin does like to BS.

Oh yeah, Towers was bad today againts Philly. 4 ER or 5 i forgot in 4.2 innings pitched. Jays lost 10-6

Yup, im up to date...McGowan has to start from scratch all over again...ie throwing and playing catch. It's a huge disappointment

btw F Towers...he's a wannabe. He can pitch well in spring ball all he wants (ie like last spring)...but there's nothing like the regular season (and hopefully in the playoffs). This guy cracks if he lets one base runner on.

[webhead15]

Towers was a huge dissapointment last year. That part of the Rotation killed the Jays. Hopefully not the same again this year !

[kevin01]

I am getting the feeling that JP will make a trade for a pitcher before the end of May. Im sure he is not happy with thompson or feeling safe with Towers. Towers cannot handle pressure, hell let one batter hit on him, and hell just go down from there allowing a lot of runs in the inning. Even though he does this, im sure he is going to pitch atleast 3 games for the jays before they decide on him. If he goes 3-0, 2-0,2-1, 1-1, hell stay depending on how he pitched.

This is why i hate spring training, we cant watch the game. Nobody got to see how towers pitched, he couldve pitched good but the hitters hit better. That guy on NYY who pitched againts Philly the other day, i think his name was Kei Iguwa or something. He pitched BAD, but he pitched like 6 scoreless innings. He kept missing his spots, and the phillies were just really bad offensively.

[skyblue12]

Towers was a huge dissapointment last year. That part of the Rotation killed the Jays. Hopefully not the same again this year !

yeah i really hope that doesn't happen this year.. towers ended up with like 1-11 record

[da1daonlyone]

come on people. bump this thread up. Only a few days left until OPENING DAY!

[NDman]

Towers has been officially named the 5th starter, but on a short leash according to JP

Might be a bit of a break for the Jays to kick off the season that Rogers is down for the Tigers already

[wesleyw]

btw F Towers...he's a wannabe. He can pitch well in spring ball all he wants (ie like last spring)...but there's nothing like the regular season (and hopefully in the playoffs). This guy cracks if he lets one base runner on.

So its true sports fans do have short memory. Remember the two seasons prior to his horrendous season last year, how he was our most reliable pitcher on our staff, and he even had the most wins on the staff (well..Halladay was hurt).
With that said, he has alot to prove this season, but I don't think you should discount his potential to contribute to the team...

[spike-spiegel]

http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/images/masthead/leaderboard/tor_logobanner_secondary.jpg

2007 Opening Day (25-Man Roster)

# STARTERS
Roy Halladay, RH
# A.J. Burnett, RH
# Gustavo Chacin, LH
# Tomo Ohka, RH
# Josh Towers, RH

BULLPEN
# B.J. Ryan, LH
# Jason Frasor, RH
# Scott Downs, LH
# Shaun Marcum, RH
# Casey Janssen, RH
# Victor Zambrano, RH
# Jeremy Accardo, RH

# INFIELDERS
# Lyle Overbay, 1B
# Aaron Hill, 2B
# Royce Clayton, SS
# Troy Glaus, 3B
# Frank Thomas, DH
# John McDonald, 2B/SS
# Jason Smith, INF

OUTFIELDERS
# Vernon Wells, CF
# Alex Rios, RF
# Reed Johnson, LF
# Matt Stairs, RF/LF

CATCHERS
# Gregg Zaun
# Jason Phillips

[skyblue12]

^^ is that confirmed? yesterday night i heard on the fan 590 that zambrano might have locked up his place as the 5th starter over towers after his performance yesterday.

[NDman]

http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070331&content_id=1872248&vkey=spt2007news&fext=.jsp&c_id=tor

http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/198135

[kevin01]

gibbons is not doing the right thing by bringing zambrano back from rehab 3 months early. He has had 2 tommy john surgeries, and is now 3 months ahead of schedule. He can pop his elbow on any pitch now.

[skyblue12]

gibbons is not doing the right thing by bringing zambrano back from rehab 3 months early. He has had 2 tommy john surgeries, and is now 3 months ahead of schedule. He can pop his elbow on any pitch now.

that might be one of the reasons why he isn't starting in the rotation.. and just coming out of the bullpen.

but he pitched 6 innings yesterday and did pretty good..

then again we never know what will happen with those kinds of injuries

[spike-spiegel]

gibbons is not doing the right thing by bringing zambrano back from rehab 3 months early. He has had 2 tommy john surgeries, and is now 3 months ahead of schedule. He can pop his elbow on any pitch now.

He's shown nothing but the opposite this Spring though. He basically forced their hand by being one of the best pitchers in Spring Training. If his elbow should pop, it should have already.


League might be back in May or June, nobody knows for sure. He overdeveloped his lat and had a slight rotator tear. His arm angle lowered and he lost velocity (100 mph to 90mph) so he has work his way back. He should be the setup man but Frasor is it for now.

[kevin01]

He's shown nothing but the opposite this Spring though. He basically forced their hand by being one of the best pitchers in Spring Training. If his elbow should pop, it should have already.


League might be back in May or June, nobody knows for sure. He overdeveloped his lat and had a slight rotator tear. His arm angle lowered and he lost velocity (100 mph to 90mph) so he has work his way back. He should be the setup man but Frasor is it for now.

yeah he doesnt need to show any signs of wear or pain, it just snaps in a second. The first game that was on sportsnet, the YES commentator talked about it. He said that he had only known one other person who had 2 tommy johns and come back early from rehab to spring training. First pitch, he blew his elbow and it ended his career.

Lol zambrano for kazmir. What a trade.

[skyblue12]

josh towers looked pretty good yesterday..

stupid game tomorrow is at 1pm EST.. i'll be at school ):

[kevin01]

josh towers looked pretty good yesterday..

stupid game tomorrow is at 1pm EST.. i'll be at school ):

Yeah im gonna just come home to watch it.

Schedule for first month:
Detroit x 7
TB x 3
KC x 3
Boston x 5
Baltimore x 3
NYY x 2
Texas x 4

if they wanna take a big lead in the AL East, this is the their chance to start off big.

[spike-spiegel]

yeah he doesnt need to show any signs of wear or pain, it just snaps in a second. The first game that was on sportsnet, the YES commentator talked about it. He said that he had only known one other person who had 2 tommy johns and come back early from rehab to spring training. First pitch, he blew his elbow and it ended his career.

Lol zambrano for kazmir. What a trade.


If it was going to snap, it would snap anywhere. Doesn't matter if he's in the majors or down in the minors, it IS going to snap like you say then it will snap. He has shown he is desreving of being the majors this spring so why does he have to stay down south just he MIGHT snap his arm anywhere? Zambrano didn't blow his elbow on his first pitch. He's been pitching pretty hard throughout Spring Training.


josh towers looked pretty good yesterday..

stupid game tomorrow is at 1pm EST.. i'll be at school ):

Skip school. ;)

[skyblue12]

If it was going to snap, it would snap anywhere. Doesn't matter if he's in the majors or down in the minors, it IS going to snap like you say then it will snap. He has shown he is desreving of being the majors this spring so why does he have to stay down south just he MIGHT snap his arm anywhere? Zambrano didn't blow his elbow on his first pitch. He's been pitching pretty hard throughout Spring Training.




Skip school. ;)

haha i'd love to.. but i can't :| maybe if it was grade 10.. or even 11 :| but not grade 12..

[kgeorge78]

get ready for a beating tomorrow ! Sorry Doc!

Can't wait until tomorrow. The 16 hour wait from now is killing me. I live 25 min from comerica park and have season tix to the tigers.

Good luck jays fans! Can't wait until april 13th either. Pistons at Raptors, Tigers at Jays all weekend.

Spring is here!

[dr.slump]

get ready for a beating tomorrow ! Sorry Doc!

Can't wait until tomorrow. The 16 hour wait from now is killing me. I live 25 min from comerica park and have season tix to the tigers.

Good luck jays fans! Can't wait until april 13th either. Pistons at Raptors, Tigers at Jays all weekend.

Spring is here!

So are you a wings fan as well?

i've always wonder who people living in windsor cheers for? will they cheer according to proximity or by patriotic preferences.

I guess now I know :razz:

Can't wait will the jays get their season on the way... its going to be exciting. Can't wait to see the big hurt!

anyone going to our home opener? :razz:

[ktan09]

Josh Towers needs to be shoved in to the 5th spot, he knows his last season sucked so he is gonna come out with a vengence this year with something to prove. He's got more ambition to improve than Zambrano does.

[skyblue12]

Josh Towers needs to be shoved in to the 5th spot, he knows his last season sucked so he is gonna come out with a vengence this year with something to prove. He's got more ambition to improve than Zambrano does.

he IS the jay's 5th starter in the rotation.

[kgeorge78]

I cheer for all Detroit Teams except the Red Wings - I hate hockey.

Most people are in Windsor area (im in Leamington) are Tiger Fans. BBall - They are all Piston fans. Football - Lions obviously with a few bills / 49ers / steelers.

Hockey I'd say is 50 / 50 Red Wing / Leaf fans

GO TIGERS!!

[spike-spiegel]

get ready for a beating tomorrow ! Sorry Doc!

Can't wait until tomorrow. The 16 hour wait from now is killing me. I live 25 min from comerica park and have season tix to the tigers.

Good luck jays fans! Can't wait until april 13th either. Pistons at Raptors, Tigers at Jays all weekend.

Spring is here!


Nah, Bonderman is going down! But I'm guess you being there to see the AL Pennant lifted up is worth the price.

Go for the Banner, Stay for shutdown-beatdown from the Jays! :D

[dr.slump]

1st inning, Jays leading 3-0... guess the offense missing in the pre-season is finally here...
hope this is a prelude to whats in stored this year for this team..

GO JAYS GO!!!

[Jayme_Reid]

1st inning, Jays leading 3-0... guess the offense missing in the pre-season is finally here...
hope this is a prelude to whats in stored this year for this team..

GO JAYS GO!!!

Not taking anything away from the jays.But detroit was not at there best in the first.The jays were very lucky to get 3 they should have only got one run.Even if the jays go to 10-0 lets not get to excited its a very very long season.

[dr.slump]

Not taking anything away from the jays.But detroit was not at there best in the first.The jays were very lucky to get 3 they should have only got one run.Even if the jays go to 10-0 lets not get to excited its a very very long season.

yeah it was a bit early for me to say that... :cheesygri

[ggs]

doc over 100 pitches after 6.. is he coming out for another?

[NDman]

doc over 100 pitches after 6.. is he coming out for another?

Nope. :D Jannsen had a tidy 1-2-3 7th

[jda]

Arrrh....

I hate it when Gibbon does his lefty lefty match up with Scott Down.

Never worked last year and still doesnt work this year.

[infinite.chaoz]

5-3 Go Jays

Better jump on this bandwagon before its full :cheesygri

[Jayme_Reid]

5-3 Go Jays

Better jump on this bandwagon before its full :cheesygri

Now what 160 games to go.

[NDman]

Now what 160 games to go.

161 ;)

[Irb]

Jansen get's his first of the man rare wins he will win this year. :razz:

[infinite.chaoz]

yay, perfect season lives on :cheesygri

[skyblue12]

way to kick off the season :razz:

go jays go!

[jling6]

Jansen get's his first of the man rare wins he will win this year. :razz:

I believe Jason Frasor got the win.

Good game, unfortunate to see those home runs by Glaus and Johnson get robbed but a win is a win.

[YnD]

Ryan is CLUTCH.

[dr.slump]

yay... we are 1.000...:cheesygri

good game... although Sheffield was close to getting a homer. BJ Ryan came through once again!

And good to see Glaus getting the hit and RBI

[skyblue12]

yay... we are 1.000...:cheesygri

good game... although Sheffield was close to getting a homer. BJ Ryan came through once again!

And good to see Glaus getting the hit and RBI

hopefully we can still say that we are at 1.000 at the end of the season! :lol:

doesn't sheffield get tired swinging that bat back and forth like that before the pitch? :lol:

[spike-spiegel]

Ryan is CLUTCH.

He looked bad on the first two pitches. Thought it was going to be the inevitable deflating strikeout. But he came up BIG with the CLUTCH hit.

Doc solid again.
Janssen was smooth.
Ryan was lights out.

[skyblue12]

Ryan is CLUTCH.

well.. that's what we got him for :cheesygri

[skyblue12]

btw did anybody watch the score today? the commentators of some MLB game.. where a guy hit 2 homers in the game.. they were like "this guy's on pace for 324 homers this season" and i was like laughing so hard :lol:

[Ogata]

btw did anybody watch the score today? the commentators of some MLB game.. where a guy hit 2 homers in the game.. they were like "this guy's on pace for 324 homers this season" and i was like laughing so hard :lol:

I think they are talking about Adam Dunn from the Reds. He had a 40 HR Season last season and is on my Fantasy Roster :D

[skyblue12]

I think they are talking about Adam Dunn from the Reds. He had a 40 HR Season last season and is on my Fantasy Roster :D

YEAH it was him :lol: it was pretty hilarious..

[will games]

btw did anybody watch the score today? the commentators of some MLB game.. where a guy hit 2 homers in the game.. they were like "this guy's on pace for 324 homers this season" and i was like laughing so hard :lol:

That was the CINNCY Game....Dunn hit 2 HR....last season they did the same thing with Dimitry Young...he hit 3 HR on opening day and said he was on pace for 486 on the season:cheesygri

[skyblue12]

That was the CINNCY Game....Dunn hit 2 HR....last season they did the same thing with Dimitry Young...he hit 3 HR on opening day and said he was on pace for 486 on the season:cheesygri

LOL i was about to ask that exact thing.. if somebody hit 3 homers would they say that they were on pace for 486 homers.. XD

[Ogata]

LOL i was about to ask that exact thing.. if somebody hit 3 homers would they say that they were on pace for 486 homers.. XD

Probalby because Frank Robinson hit 8 HRs during a Season Opener who ended up in the hall of fame.

[skyblue12]

Probalby because Frank Robinson hit 8 HRs during a Season Opener who ended up in the hall of fame.

he hit EIGHT HR's in ONE GAME? :eek: how do you even get 8 at bats in a game :|

[kgeorge78]

Just got back from the game. Being a tiger fan it wasnt fun!
But the weather was great; downtown detroit was awesome, I got to see the Doc in action and BJ Ryan throws heat man!

I guess Im going to have to settle on 161-1

[skyblue12]

Just got back from the game. Being a tiger fan it wasnt fun!
But the weather was great; downtown detroit was awesome, I got to see the Doc in action and BJ Ryan throws heat man!

I guess Im going to have to settle on 161-1

haha.. that's the spirit!

the tigers are a good ball club.. my guess is they're well on their way to the playoffs again, despite the injury to kenny rogers.

[kgeorge78]

Probalby because Frank Robinson hit 8 HRs during a Season Opener who ended up in the hall of fame.

Frank Robinson never hit 8 home runs in 1 game. Nobody has ever hit 8 hrs in 1 game. I think you mean 8 homeruns in all the opening games combined?

4 is the most in 1 game: 1 of the players u guys might recognize!

Four Home Runs In One Game
American League Players in Chronological Order

Name Position Team Date / Box
Lou Gehrig

1B

New York

06-03-1932
Pat Seerey

LF

Chicago

07-18-1948
Rocky Colavito

RF

Cleveland

06-10-1959
Mike Cameron

CF

Seattle

05-02-2002
Carlos Delgado

1B

Toronto

09-25-2003
Name

Position

Team

Date / Box

Four Home Runs In One Game


National League Players in Chronological Order

Name Position Team Date / Box
Bobby Lowe

2B

Boston

05-30-1894
Ed Delahanty

LF

Philadelphia

07-13-1896
Chuck Klein

RF

Philadelphia

07-10-1936
Gil Hodges

1B

Brooklyn

08-31-1950
Joe Adcock

1B

Milwaukee

07-31-1954
Willie Mays

CF

San Francisco

04-30-1961
Mike Schmidt

3B

Philadelphia

04-17-1976
Bob Horner

1B

Atlanta

07-06-1986
Mark Whiten

RF

St. Louis

09-07-1993
Shawn Green

RF

Los Angeles

05-23-2002

[canabiz]

Just got back from the game. Being a tiger fan it wasnt fun!
But the weather was great; downtown detroit was awesome, I got to see the Doc in action and BJ Ryan throws heat man!

I guess Im going to have to settle on 161-1

I hope Detroit has *changed* for the better for its sake. We went there in '99 and i swear I would never go back again.

I saw right in front of my own eyes some brothas breaking into cars in broad daylight. We didn't even look, fearing they would bring out some Uzis...flowers and teddy bears were at every corner man, probably marking the fallen homeboys. The whole town was so ghetto, we zipped back to Canada as soon as we could

Sorry for going OT ;-)

[skyblue12]

^^ i was WONDERING how the heck somebody even got to the plate 8 times in one game..

you tricked me ogata! :lol:

[Hanniganite]

Took a break from essay writing to watch the Jays score 3 in the first and that was all I saw...but better than nothing.

[skyblue12]

Took a break from essay writing to watch the Jays score 3 in the first and that was all I saw...but better than nothing.

i had school until 3:15ish.. came back home and it was top 7th tied 3-3.. i rushed home so i could watch the rest of the game, i was so excited :lol: i wore my rios jersey to school today too :cheesygri

[Frank Dux]

Too bad no win for Doc

[kgeorge78]

Yes; it's MUCH improved and theres signs it's going to be a great city.

The "brothas" have been kicked away from downtown.
New buidlings are going up left and right including 3 new casinos.
In the past few years, Detroit has hosted:

All Star Game
World Series Games
Superbowl
Wrestlemania
NBA Championship
Final Four
College Hockey Championship.

I notice that Canadians especially Torontoians are "afraid" of most American Citys. Toronto isnt that great considering I had to walk over 12 homeless people and panhandlers on my way back to the hotel last week.

Leave my city alone.



I hope Detroit has *changed* for the better for its sake. We went there in '99 and i swear I would never go back again.

I saw right in front of my own eyes some brothas breaking into cars in broad daylight. We didn't even look, fearing they would bring out some Uzis...flowers and teddy bears were at every corner man, probably marking the fallen homeboys. The whole town was so ghetto, we zipped back to Canada as soon as we could

Sorry for going OT ;-)

[skyblue12]

from what i've seen a lot of american baseball parks are REALLY nice. i almost had a chance to catch a mets game down in NY, but too bad i couldn't find any tickets ):

the one that i like the most is probably the houston astros ballpark.. (but that's from like.. images from MLB 2k7 :lol:)

[xopt1js]

http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/images/masthead/leaderboard/tor_logobanner_secondary.jpg

2007 Opening Day (25-Man Roster)



# INFIELDERS

# Jason Smith, INF



SWEET! Not only am I the Oilers captain, I play for the Jays!!!

Seriously though, does anyone know anything about this guy? Think he will stay with the big team?

[skyblue12]

SWEET! Not only am I the Oilers captain, I play for the Jays!!!

Seriously though, does anyone know anything about this guy? Think he will stay with the big team?

lol.. i'm assuming you have the same name?.. -_-

he pinch ran for lyle overbay in like.. the 10th inning today..

[new_vr]

Yes; it's MUCH improved and theres signs it's going to be a great city.

The "brothas" have been kicked away from downtown.
New buidlings are going up left and right including 3 new casinos.
In the past few years, Detroit has hosted:



I have been to many cities (NY, London, Amsterdam) and the only place I have ever actually been scared was Detroit. Awesome ballpark though, probably my favourite

[xopt1js]

lol.. i'm assuming you have the same name?.. -_-

he pinch ran for lyle overbay in like.. the 10th inning today..

Yeah lucky me eh? White guy named Jason Smith :lol:

If anyone is interested, here is my WIKI page, they even got a picture of when the spelt his name "SMTIH" on his jersey :razz:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Smith_(baseball_player)

[SoGood]

solid pitching from everyone

halladay got in a bit of trouble in that one inning...
jansenn was solid, frasor was solid, and BJ was pretty good...

[canabiz]

Yes; it's MUCH improved and theres signs it's going to be a great city.

The "brothas" have been kicked away from downtown.
New buidlings are going up left and right including 3 new casinos.
In the past few years, Detroit has hosted:

All Star Game
World Series Games
Superbowl
Wrestlemania
NBA Championship
Final Four
College Hockey Championship.

I notice that Canadians especially Torontoians are "afraid" of most American Citys. Toronto isnt that great considering I had to walk over 12 homeless people and panhandlers on my way back to the hotel last week.

Leave my city alone.


That's good to hear man, i still shudders remembering those burnt-down buildings right in the heart of the city and all those homeboys and fat mamas just standing outside doing nothing, watching traffic go by and get ready to hustle for the next buck. Scary.

What do you mean by *Leave my city alone ?* Are you calling Detroit home now or something ? Btw, I am not from Toronto, not that it matters but would like to set the record straight!

[skyblue12]

BJ Ryan sometimes scares me.. cause he loves challenging hitters and throwing a fastball pretty much right down the middle. but at the same time i know he's going to get the job done for us..

[kevin01]

rios had a good start to what should be his 2nd breakout year, lol. That lineup should work well, but it did not produce many hits today.

[kgeorge78]

SWEET! Not only am I the Oilers captain, I play for the Jays!!!

Seriously though, does anyone know anything about this guy? Think he will stay with the big team?



He stinks. He played on the tigers for a while - can't hit a lick

[xopt1js]

He stinks. He played on the tigers for a while - can't hit a lick

Thanks for the info, guess i won't be getting his jersey :|

[dr.slump]

BJ Ryan sometimes scares me.. cause he loves challenging hitters and throwing a fastball pretty much right down the middle. but at the same time i know he's going to get the job done for us..

yeah i agree with you, sometimes it does gets nerve wrecking when Ryan is pitching, he still goes after hitters even when there are runners on base. But I guess thats the reason why he is successful as a closer.

Now will have to wait till wed for the next game... anyone know why they have 1 game and then a day off before completing the series? :?:

[NDman]

This is what closers do -- they challenge hitter. Game is on the line and with runners on, they can't afford to doodle around and waste their pitches and energy. They have to challenge the batters with an "out" pitch, or make them put the ball into play.


He stinks. He played on the tigers for a while - can't hit a lick

Yeah, tell that to Royce Clayton! Oh wait, he's a monster. He's batting .500 and an OBP of .667 this season !!

[billdozer]

5-3 Go Jays

Better jump on this bandwagon before its full :cheesygri

Typical loafer mentality.

[skyblue12]

yeah i agree with you, sometimes it does gets nerve wrecking when Ryan is pitching, he still goes after hitters even when there are runners on base. But I guess thats the reason why he is successful as a closer.

Now will have to wait till wed for the next game... anyone know why they have 1 game and then a day off before completing the series? :?:

still though.. he's not as nerve wrecking as miguel bastita was when he was in the closer role. every time he came out in a close situation, you almost KNEW that he would blow the save.. which was true at least half the time.

actually now that i think of it.. watching ryan is more nerve wrecking.. cause for miguel bastita it's pretty much already expected :lol:

but i think going after hitters BJ style works for him.. probably doesn't work for a lot of other closers but hey as long as he's saving the games for us who cares :cheesygri

[wesleyw]

still though.. he's not as nerve wrecking as miguel bastita was when he was in the closer role. every time he came out in a close situation, you almost KNEW that he would blow the save.. which was true at least half the time.

actually now that i think of it.. watching ryan is more nerve wrecking.. cause for miguel bastita it's pretty much already expected :lol:

but i think going after hitters BJ style works for him.. probably doesn't work for a lot of other closers but hey as long as he's saving the games for us who cares :cheesygri

There isn't really an elite closer who doesn't go after hitters.
Looking at Rivera, Hoffman, K-Rod, etc...they are not pitchers who pitch around guys. They try to get them to jam or put the ball in play, or K batters and end the game within their first 15-20 pitches if possible.

[skyblue12]

There isn't really an elite closer who doesn't go after hitters.
Looking at Rivera, Hoffman, K-Rod, etc...they are not pitchers who pitch around guys. They try to get them to jam or put the ball in play, or K batters and end the game within their first 15-20 pitches if possible.

that's true.. :|

so i guess it DOES work :lol:

[ggs]

big game for AJ today. im predicting 7 strong with high ks

[Ogata]

big game for AJ today. im predicting 7 strong with high ks

Its time for him to redeem himself. Does anyone notice how he changed his pitching approach? He kind of follows what Doc does.

[will games]

Hopefully AJ dominates today :cheesygri

[ggs]

hmm having trouble holding runners on.. doesnt look like his control is great, already walked 3. 1-0 detroit.

[kgeorge78]

3-0 bases loaded - neither pitcher looks good - AJ is out

[Psubs]

Hopefully AJ dominates today :cheesygri

He got dominated. :(

[kgeorge78]

8-0 Sweeeeeeeeetttttttttt

[Byrns]

I think we need to invoke the pee-wee baseball rule.

[ggs]

boy was i dead wrong, yikes. mercy!!

[Geologic]

8-0.. oh man.

[nano]

I think we need to invoke the pee-wee baseball rule.

why? its only the forth...

[Irb]

The Jays will make a comeback and win.

[ggs]

The Jays will make a comeback and win.

orly? lets hope so..

[Spray]

Damn what a nice timed triple!

Poor Odonez, he's getting ROCKED

[skyblue12]

10-3 now.. booo :|

[thelefteyeguy]

so 10-6...now...

[skyblue12]

we still got a chance.. man on 3rd with one out

[skyblue12]

WOO now 10-7 with man on second and third.. HEART OF OUR LINEUP CMON GUYS :cheesygri

[Ch00bi3]

10-9 Now Hahaha!

[Spray]

go jays

Whats with all the damn garbage swirling around haha...

[skyblue12]

10-9! Lets Go Blue Jays Lets Go

[thelefteyeguy]

go jays

Whats with all the damn garbage swirling around haha...


it's detroit :cheesygri


boo....10-9...


lol Jason Smith is back in T.O....


grr....walk already...

[dr.slump]

D'oh....

Sooo close...

Please don't let them get a run this inning... PLEASE!!!!!

[skyblue12]

D'oh....

Sooo close...

Please don't let them get a run this inning... PLEASE!!!!!

yeah that would be deadly.. :| but considering this jays team.. nothing is impossible :lol:

of course i don't want to see some miracle 5-run comeback in the 9th..

[skyblue12]

sigh.. 2 on nobody out bottom 8th.. great :| cmon frasor

[thelefteyeguy]

...the last pitch looked like a strike to me.

ok...1 more..

[ggs]

man gotta shut em down here...

[skyblue12]

top 9th here we come..

[thelefteyeguy]

Rios...looking for a good line drive homer lol



....doh!


Hill singles

Zaun walks....

let's get Hill home baby!

[almostfreeman]

Ordonez needs a hair cut :|

[skyblue12]

no DP please.. NO DP

[kgeorge78]

**** im nervous - rollercoaster jones in the game!

[thelefteyeguy]

gurrrr....last chance


That's a lot of pressure for Johnson....not sure why he's the leadoff.


well there goes our chances of going 162-0

[skyblue12]

damn NT jays.. very close :|

guess we'll have to settle for 161-1..

[almostfreeman]

for a moment I thought I was seeing a flashback from the 92, 93 BJ teams ...

[ggs]

close, but not quite enough.

[501]

wow wasnt it 9-0 tigers? lol thought jays would lose by a land slide :D

[Tofu Drift Shinji]

Good game even though we lost.

It's much easier for the Tigers to go up 8 runs in the third than it was for us to claw back to within 1 run in the eighth. These Jays are really something.

[dr.slump]

well at least they made a game of it at the end...
hopefully this will give our boys some confidences. And put some fear into the opposing pitchers! :cheesygri


hahaha I'll be happy with 161-1:razz:

[Jayme_Reid]

Good game even though we lost.

It's much easier for the Tigers to go up 8 runs in the third than it was for us to claw back to within 1 run in the eighth. These Jays are really something.

Wait untill the 40 game mark of the season.2 Games is nothing win or lose it means very little.

[kevin01]

that was a good "almost" comebacK. ONE MORE RUNN lol, they got the tying run on twice.

[SoGood]

didn't watch the game until the 8th...
but what the jays did what incredible, little by little just getting guys on base and getting them in... just shows how quickly our offense can explode, and not necessarily with the long ball...
also, frasor looked pretty good again in the 9th.

[skyblue12]

didn't watch the game until the 8th...
but what the jays did what incredible, little by little just getting guys on base and getting them in... just shows how quickly our offense can explode, and not necessarily with the long ball...
also, frasor looked pretty good again in the 9th.

the jays showed us that even if they are down late in a game.. they have what it takes to come back. they showed it last year too, and i think this year if the pitching stays healthy (and the back end of the rotation does decent) then we have a pretty good chance.. even if we're down late we can still come back.. which is nice for fans :cheesygri

[will games]

I thought they were gonna do it :razz:

[skyblue12]

I thought they were gonna do it :razz:

we were close..

i was pretty pissed, there goes our perfect season :lol:

[kgeorge78]

glad theres lots of baseball fans out there.

Im a huge fan of the Tigers living so close but I do watch tons of jays games too.

I think the jays will finish with 84 wins this year. Pitching is gonna be a huge problem this year.

The bullpen does look solid though.

What I noticed from the first 2 days:

Hallady is amazing - Top 5 pitcher in baseball maybe top 3.
Jays Bullpen looks real solid - I saw them live on Tues and I was impressed.
Lineup is solid 2-6 - Reed Johnson stinks
Zaun is solid defensively but his batting is horrible.
Hill is iffy.
Wells looks great. He always does - So effortlessly.
A.J. is NOT worth his money - His no hitter a few years ago was a fluke; he's NOT a horse like advertised and I guarentee he gets hurt.
Glaus and Frank Thomas will finish 270 30 90 something along those lines.

Glaus is nible for a huge guy and pretty solid defensively.

I know this is a jays thread but what are your predictions for the year.

Mine:

AL East - Boston
Central - Detroit
West - California
Wildcard- Cleveland

NL East - Mets
Central - Brewers
West - Not sure - prob Dodgers
Wildcard- Braves

Tigers over Boston; Mets over Braves; Tigers over Mets!!!!

[NDman]

AL East - Boston
Central - Detroit
West - California
Wildcard- Cleveland


The Central and the East are going to be a hell of fun to watch. I think the young guys of the Tribe will have a fantastic year. I have them take the Central and a dog fight for the Wildcard between Tigers, Twins and the Yankees. The Yanks are too good to be ignored and I think they'll claim the WC. Angels for the West and Sox for the East. I am predicting Jays to be 500, dead on. They have a formidable hitting lineup but SP is rather suspect compare to the power houses. I hope I am wrong but I don't foresee them going too many games above 500, if at all.

As for the NL:

East - Mets
Central - Cardinals
West - Dodgers (run away)
WC - Cubs (this one I am going out on a limp), with Brewers faded just a week or 2 before the season ended

[dr.slump]

Game's just been postponed.... :| was looking forward to it..

[kevin01]

fu** i was looking forward to watching chacin pitch too.

[jonkaho]

did the Jays release John Thompson?

[skyblue12]

did the Jays release John Thompson?

it's not mentioned in the bluejays.ca website.. so i'm assuming they didn't?

game postponed till september!? grrr

[almostfreeman]

did the Jays release John Thompson?

ya he's done

[Spray]

You do realize Reed Johnson was quite possibly the best leadoff hitter last year? Leading the stats in getting on base the first inning. He also eats up a TON of pitches.

The only thing reed needs to work on is base stealing. He has the speed, I dont know why he cant get many steals...he's like a Devon white.

[skyblue12]

You do realize Reed Johnson was quite possibly the best leadoff hitter last year? Leading the stats in getting on base the first inning. He also eats up a TON of pitches.

The only thing reed needs to work on is base stealing. He has the speed, I dont know why he cant get many steals...he's like a Devon white.

imo reed johnson has definitely earned his spot as leadoff.

what i was kinda surprised about was that overbay hit second, i kind of understand because of his ability to hit to the gaps and get on base for the heart of the lineup, but tbh at the beginning of the season i expected alex rios to be in the 2 spot. don't really mind that overbay is in that spot now though, since i think a lot of people expect alex to have a breakout season this year, and he's shown us that he has some home run power.

[Spray]

Rios hits a lot of ground balls, which would lead into a lot of double plays. He has the speed yes, but isn't a mature enough hitter imo for the number 2 spot. Not only does overbay hit a lot of doubles, he is also very quick and hits for average. He's deceptively quick in fact. A well placed double could score speedy johnson from first, or if not you have a man on 2nd and 3rd with noone out for the power hitters of the lineup.

I would love to see Rios develop into the type of player that can hit the #2 spot, but I dont think he's there yet, and you need overbay in a good batting spot.

imo reed johnson has definitely earned his spot as leadoff.

what i was kinda surprised about was that overbay hit second, i kind of understand because of his ability to hit to the gaps and get on base for the heart of the lineup, but tbh at the beginning of the season i expected alex rios to be in the 2 spot. don't really mind that overbay is in that spot now though, since i think a lot of people expect alex to have a breakout season this year, and he's shown us that he has some home run power.

[skyblue12]

Rios hits a lot of ground balls, which would lead into a lot of double plays. He has the speed yes, but isn't a mature enough hitter imo for the number 2 spot. Not only does overbay hit a lot of doubles, he is also very quick and hits for average. He's deceptively quick in fact. A well placed double could score speedy johnson from first, or if not you have a man on 2nd and 3rd with noone out for the power hitters of the lineup.

I would love to see Rios develop into the type of player that can hit the #2 spot, but I dont think he's there yet, and you need overbay in a good batting spot.

i definitely agree.. the chances of johnson getting on base, then overbay scoring him with a double, is much higher than having rios bat second, with a lesser chance of getting the lead-off man in. like i said, i think rios' spot right now is actually better than the 2 spot, since overbay can get on base with his doubles more times than rios can.

[spike-spiegel]

did the Jays release John Thompson?

I think he's on the DL or accepted assignment. Either way, he is recovering from injury.

Rios hits a lot of ground balls, which would lead into a lot of double plays. He has the speed yes, but isn't a mature enough hitter imo for the number 2 spot. Not only does overbay hit a lot of doubles, he is also very quick and hits for average. He's deceptively quick in fact. A well placed double could score speedy johnson from first, or if not you have a man on 2nd and 3rd with noone out for the power hitters of the lineup.

I would love to see Rios develop into the type of player that can hit the #2 spot, but I dont think he's there yet, and you need overbay in a good batting spot.

i definitely agree.. the chances of johnson getting on base, then overbay scoring him with a double, is much higher than having rios bat second, with a lesser chance of getting the lead-off man in. like i said, i think rios' spot right now is actually better than the 2 spot, since overbay can get on base with his doubles more times than rios can.


Overbay is a good #2 hitter on this team. Another reason is when Reed reaches base, there is a hole between 1B and 2B because the 1B has to hold Reed on the base. Also his gap power and spray, and good eye allows the sluggers behind him to see better and more pitches. And it breaks up all the righties.

I disagree with you that Overbay grounds into less double plays. Look at last year's stats: http://www.realgmbaseball.com/src_stats/2006/toronto/?sort=gidp&filter=&value=

Rios GIDP every 0.022 AB while Overbay is 0.032; Rios is faster than Overbay, but Overbay's speed is decent.

Rios' speed is wasted at #6 but there is less pressure down there than hitting #2. If Rios can become more selective, he can become a good #2 hitter. Aaron Hill would make a good #2 hitter too.

[skyblue12]

tbh, this is the first time i've heard that a game was "snowed out"

i've heard of rain delays / games called on account of rain.. but snow? :lol:

well i guess i always hear game called on "inclement weather", i just never questioned whether it was snow or rain or high winds or something.

[Hanniganite]

Noy Jays but still baseball...

I was surfing Yahoo last night for the baseball scores (and to check my fantasy team) and came across this :cheesygri

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/8790/oakseasc9.th.jpg (http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oakseasc9.jpg)
http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/6531/oakseaboxfr2.th.jpg (http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oakseaboxfr2.jpg)
http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/6834/oakseabox1un4.th.jpg (http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oakseabox1un4.jpg)

Not quite sure how the hell that happened...completely out of whack. Confused me until I checked other sites for the score but still funny.

[radeonboy]

Noy Jays but still baseball...

I was surfing Yahoo last night for the baseball scores (and to check my fantasy team) and came across this :cheesygri

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/8790/oakseasc9.th.jpg (http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oakseasc9.jpg)
http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/6531/oakseaboxfr2.th.jpg (http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oakseaboxfr2.jpg)
http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/6834/oakseabox1un4.th.jpg (http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oakseabox1un4.jpg)

Not quite sure how the hell that happened...completely out of whack. Confused me until I checked other sites for the score but still funny.

late for april fools?? :D

[skyblue12]

Noy Jays but still baseball...

I was surfing Yahoo last night for the baseball scores (and to check my fantasy team) and came across this :cheesygri

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/8790/oakseasc9.th.jpg (http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oakseasc9.jpg)
http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/6531/oakseaboxfr2.th.jpg (http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oakseaboxfr2.jpg)
http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/6834/oakseabox1un4.th.jpg (http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oakseabox1un4.jpg)

Not quite sure how the hell that happened...completely out of whack. Confused me until I checked other sites for the score but still funny.

LOL wow gg.. this looks even worse than that time i beat the comp like.. 28-0 in MLB 2k6 :lol:

[almostfreeman]

I think he's on the DL or accepted assignment. Either way, he is recovering from injury.

he's done , http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070326&content_id=1860874&vkey=spt2007news&fext=.jsp&c_id=tor

can't find the follow up but he was given his release before the start of the season.

[kevin01]

tbh, this is the first time i've heard that a game was "snowed out"

i've heard of rain delays / games called on account of rain.. but snow? :lol:

well i guess i always hear game called on "inclement weather", i just never questioned whether it was snow or rain or high winds or something.

it wasnt snowed out, I heard it was too cold. I heard that a few times on TSN and The Score

[skyblue12]

it wasnt snowed out, I heard it was too cold. I heard that a few times on TSN and The Score

really? well i was watching sportsnet news yesterday, and i saw that there was a LITTLE bit of snow falling (nothing major, just kind of sprinkling down) or maybe it was just my eyes :|

[Ogata]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AgRDwMe_v9TmcsnoIytQlNAs0bYF?slug=ap-bluejays-ad&prov=ap&type=lgns

Sigh...making such a big deal out of Thoma's commercial. I have nothing against it since it was meant as a joke. Child Abuse? Oh please...

[kevin01]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AgRDwMe_v9TmcsnoIytQlNAs0bYF?slug=ap-bluejays-ad&prov=ap&type=lgns

Sigh...making such a big deal out of Thoma's commercial. I have nothing against it since it was meant as a joke. Child Abuse? Oh please...

that is the dumbest thing i have ever heard. yeah some idiots gonna go knock their child out cold with a pillow after watching this.... :|

[skyblue12]

that is the dumbest thing i have ever heard. yeah some idiots gonna go knock their child out cold with a pillow after watching this.... :|

this couldn't have been worse than that vid with peyton manning teaching those kids to play football on SNL..

[wesleyw]

this couldn't have been worse than that vid with peyton manning teaching those kids to play football on SNL..

I think the only difference is that the Peyton Manning skit on SNL was targetted to a very specific audience, I mean those who watches SNL understands its humour, etc etc. But this Frank Thomas commercial is being argued that it can be taken the wrong way by some people and influenced them in particular way.

Note: I am not against the commercial, just bringing up a different perspective to the argument.

[gordholio]

I don't see this commercial as any worse than all the news that's reported everyday - killings, rapes, etc.
We don't censor that.

[skyblue12]

chacin is pitching tonight.. hopefully he'll do a better job than burnett :|

[almostfreeman]

chacin is pitching tonight.. hopefully he'll do a better job than burnett :|

Ya all that positive feeling about the near comeback overshadowed the fact that AJ sucked! Scary to think he's our #2 guy.

[skyblue12]

Ya all that positive feeling about the near comeback overshadowed the fact that AJ sucked! Scary to think he's our #2 guy.

he has yet to prove to me that he's worth the 5 yr. $55 mil. contract, but i mean it's only been 1 game this season, and last year i guess he can use his injury as a PARTIAL excuse.

[almostfreeman]

what is rogers preview? I can't seem to find the game.

[will games]

I dont have rogers box this really sucks...is there a way to watch it on the net?

[skyblue12]

what is rogers preview? I can't seem to find the game.

NOOOO GRRRRRR BOTH THE JAYS AND RAPS GAMES AREN'T ON TV :cry::cry:

[skyblue12]

woo down 3 nothing and came back!

up 5-3 in the bottom of the 8th now :cheesygri

[kevin01]

No Bjjjjjjjj

[infinite.chaoz]

uh oh spaghetti-O:mad:

[kevin01]

O

M

G

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[EZman]

Our offense was OK, could have turned it up at the beginning, but was it the pitching? I was very surprised by BJ, i thought he was "no-nonsense" pitcher, hopefully it will change soon this season. I believe we are going to win tomorrow's game for sure, Ohka is not gonna disappoint.

[Ogata]

Something to do with his back? I'm scared now. If we can't win games against the Rays or the O's, our chances of getting into the playoffs are slim though just a rant.

[kevin01]

Something to do with his back? I'm scared now. If we can't win games against the Rays or the O's, our chances of getting into the playoffs are slim though just a rant.

lol take it easy, the rays beat the yanks yesterday too. I think they should trade Jeter and A-Rod while they have the chance.

Look, whoever thinks the Jays will make the playoffs does not know what the other teams are going to do this year. It is nearly impossible for them to make it, and I dont think they will.

I hope they prove me wrong because i would love to watch a jays playoff game.

[Ogata]

lol take it easy, the rays beat the yanks yesterday too. I think they should trade Jeter and A-Rod while they have the chance.

Look, whoever thinks the Jays will make the playoffs does not know what the other teams are going to do this year. It is nearly impossible for them to make it, and I dont think they will.

I hope they prove me wrong because i would love to watch a jays playoff game.

Which is why you should throw it up? :D

Tough loss and they did imrpove their team so no worries. We'll bounce back and win the series then go on a roll at home. Who's going to the home opener?

[Ogata]

I don't see this commercial as any worse than all the news that's reported everyday - killings, rapes, etc.
We don't censor that.

+1

Its because of some broadcast guidelines that apparently the Jays broke. Canada stinks when it comes to censorship.

[spike-spiegel]

lol take it easy, the rays beat the yanks yesterday too. I think they should trade Jeter and A-Rod while they have the chance.

Look, whoever thinks the Jays will make the playoffs does not know what the other teams are going to do this year. It is nearly impossible for them to make it, and I dont think they will.

I hope they prove me wrong because i would love to watch a jays playoff game.


Why is it nearly impossible for Jays to make the playoffs? The Yankees and Red Sox have holes on their team too. It will be difficult as usually, but impossible for playoffs.

[canabiz]

Why is it nearly impossible for Jays to make the playoffs? The Yankees and Red Sox have holes on their team too. It will be difficult as usually, but impossible for playoffs.

I have said it before and will say it again: If the Jays doesn't make the playoffs this year, time to clean houses. That being said, the season is still long but tonight is a perfect example of games that the Jays should have won in this competitive AL East. Accept no mediocrity and any of that coulda, shoulda, woulda garbage

Personally I would stop using all Rogers services if the Jays don't make the playoff this year. I know it doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of things but that's just a way for me to say I am fed up, LMAO

Cheers.

[Ogata]

I have said it before and will say it again: If the Jays doesn't make the playoffs this year, time to clean houses. That being said, the season is still long but tonight is a perfect example of games that the Jays should have won in this competitive AL East. Accept no mediocrity and any of that coulda, shoulda, woulda garbage

Personally I would stop using all Rogers services if the Jays don't make the playoff this year. I know it doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of things but that's just a way for me to say I am fed up, LMAO

Cheers.

And go to your beloved Sens whos going to win the Stanley Cup? I still have hope. I would already stop if say for example, they signed A-Rod.

[canabiz]

And go to your beloved Sens whos going to win the Stanley Cup? I still have hope. I would already stop if say for example, they signed A-Rod.

Why do you think the Sens is my favorite team ? and why do you even bring hockey in here ? Assumption is a terrible thing my friend

I never say I give up hope or whatever, go back to my message and read and re-read it again and hope it got through the thick coconut of yours. I simply say that if the Jays doesn't make the playoff this year, for whatever reasons, it's time for the Jays to go in a new direction and as a consumer who has stuck with bad quality/terrible service from Rogers all in the name of supporting the Jays, I won't simply take that crap no more

Capiche ?

[kevin01]

Why is it nearly impossible for Jays to make the playoffs? The Yankees and Red Sox have holes on their team too. It will be difficult as usually, but impossible for playoffs.

I would love to think of it that way, but the Jays holes are bigger than the Yanks. The wild card is basically out of the question with Detroit, Cleveland, Minnesota, and the CWS (or the AL Central), and Bos/NYY, the Jays are in for one tough season.

The only way i see them making it is if they make a trade for a pitcher.

JP should have done Penny and Kent for Wells when he had the chance, it wouldve helped the team more.

And to the person who said they should just clean shelf if they dont make it, they would never do that. They just rebuilt their fan base, and expect them to improve over the next few season, not become a very bad team.

[Ogata]

Why do you think the Sens is my favorite team ? and why do you even bring hockey in here ? Assumption is a terrible thing my friend

I never say I give up hope or whatever, go back to my message and read and re-read it again and hope it got through the thick coconut of yours. I simply say that if the Jays doesn't make the playoff this year, for whatever reasons, it's time for the Jays to go in a new direction and as a consumer who has stuck with bad quality/terrible service from Rogers all in the name of supporting the Jays, I won't simply take that crap no more

Capiche ?


Calm down...I didn't mean to offend you, geez..this happened to me twice already. I assumed it would be since your location states from Ottawa and judging by their playoff routes, its possible? I mean its time to bring SOMETHING back to Canada. But people won't simply cancel rogers. Not all consumers are like us. Sorry for offending you. Anyways, lets bring back 2/3.

[flyingdutchman]

Yeah...so..um....uh what happened yesterday in TB? I went to take a shower after seeing the score was 5-3 for us at the bottom of the 9th and when i come back...TB won?

[Tofu Drift Shinji]

BJ allowed three runs on five hits in the ninth.

[skyblue12]

BJ allowed three runs on five hits in the ninth.

that last run was.. GRR-ness :@

chopper to short.. and took such a high bounce that ss didn't have time to field it and get somebody out for the last out.

[asot24]

Frank Thomas with the grand slam!!

[Evil Baby]

Lets go BJ Lets go!

[Tofu Drift Shinji]

Nice pitching by Marcum. 5 Ks in two and a third.

[almostfreeman]

Nice pitching by Marcum. 5 Ks in two and a third.

ya he did a nice job, ... the pen looks good

[Ogata]

Hallady and Kazmir tomorrow. Seems to be a great matchup! We need this win so they have enough momentum to face Mr. DeJesus who likes to pretend hes actually in the batter's box and swing as if he was already there. Whos going to the Home Opener on Monday?

[spike-spiegel]

I would love to think of it that way, but the Jays holes are bigger than the Yanks. The wild card is basically out of the question with Detroit, Cleveland, Minnesota, and the CWS (or the AL Central), and Bos/NYY, the Jays are in for one tough season.

The only way i see them making it is if they make a trade for a pitcher.

JP should have done Penny and Kent for Wells when he had the chance, it wouldve helped the team more.

And to the person who said they should just clean shelf if they dont make it, they would never do that. They just rebuilt their fan base, and expect them to improve over the next few season, not become a very bad team.


The holes are bigger than the Yanks but I think that's a given. Jays have always been in position where everything has to go right for them and Yanks/Sox have to have problems for Jays to make the playoffs. That's just how it is playing in the same division as the two top payrolls. But the size of the holes aren't as diffferent people are saying.

Yankees' rotation is a mess too but Jays have better mediocre depth. Bullpen is around the same. Yanks' lineup is better only because the bottom of the order is stronger.

Sox's rotation is stronger on paper but it has holes themselves. The bullpen infront of Papelbon is not good. Their lineup I would say is not as good as the Jays.


With 4 good teams in the AL Central, there is a chance they'll beat each other up because of the unbalanced schedule. But I think the Twins aren't as good as last year and the White Sox will regress because of pitching problems.

From the line of thinking, I don't think it's near impossible like you said, that Jays will be better than one of NYY/BOS and CLE/DET.

[spike-spiegel]

Did anyone else see that Grand Salami & Cheese by A-Rod today? NY loves him now, but wait until he chokes. :twisted:

[will games]

Did anyone else see that Grand Salami & Cheese by A-Rod today? NY loves him now, but wait until he chokes. :twisted:


That won me $200 today :)

[infinite.chaoz]

That won me $200 today :)

What a coincident, I lost exactly $200 today. :cheesygri

Anyways, that was some crazy grand-slam from Thomas 2day. And why hasn't our starters won a game yet?

[kevin01]

What a coincident, I lost exactly $200 today. :cheesygri

Anyways, that was some crazy grand-slam from Thomas 2day. And why hasn't our starters won a game yet?

Halladay - No Decision left with the game tied
Burnett - Loss
Chacin - No decision left while losing
Okha - No Decision, left the game without playing 5 full innings to qualify for a win


Isnt Towers supposed to pitch tomorrow?

[NDman]

Towers will be skipped because of the game postponed in Detroit. It'll be Doc today, squaring off with Kazmir

[skyblue12]

Towers will be skipped because of the game postponed in Detroit. It'll be Doc today, squaring off with Kazmir

too bad i wanted to see how towers would do :|

guess i have to wait another 4 games

[Hanniganite]

too bad i wanted to see how towers would do :|

guess i have to wait another 4 games

Pretty sure he's getting the next start....I think they just bumped Doc ahead of him because he's the ace but they won't shift the entire rotation...you can't just have Towers not pitch any of the first 9 games...

[skyblue12]

Pretty sure he's getting the next start....I think they just bumped Doc ahead of him because he's the ace but they won't shift the entire rotation...you can't just have Towers not pitch any of the first 9 games...

so towers pitches the next one.. then burnett, then etc etc?

[Hanniganite]

so towers pitches the next one.. then burnett, then etc etc?

AFAIK yeah...unless games get pushed back or whatever.
Seattle/Cleveland supposed to play a doubleheader yesterday and today but that's been pushed so they have like 4 games to make up. Gooooooo snooooooowwww

[skyblue12]

AFAIK yeah...unless games get pushed back or whatever.
Seattle/Cleveland supposed to play a doubleheader yesterday and today but that's been pushed so they have like 4 games to make up. Gooooooo snooooooowwww

that was pretty crazy.. i've never seen baseball being played in that kind of snow before :eek:

[spike-spiegel]

Pretty sure he's getting the next start....I think they just bumped Doc ahead of him because he's the ace but they won't shift the entire rotation...you can't just have Towers not pitch any of the first 9 games...

Towers should have pitched yesterday. Burnett will still go in home opener. Towers on Tuesday.

[skyblue12]

Towers should have pitched yesterday. Burnett will still go in home opener. Towers on Tuesday.

uh oh burnett home opener.. after what happened his last outing.. i don't see any ovations unless he's brilliant tomorrow :lol:

[skyblue12]

wells solo homer in the first.. good start! :cheesygri

[skyblue12]

what a weird play.. :| tied 1-1 now.. halladay doesn't look that great in the early going :|

[jling6]

wells solo homer in the first.. good start! :cheesygri

8 K's in 3 IP for Kazmir :|

[pfdude]

Holy strike outs batman

9 K's now.. lots of swinging and missing

[skyblue12]

8 K's in 3 IP for Kazmir :|

yeah.. and 6 k's in a row

i think that broke the all time devil ray record of K's in a row :lol:

[skyblue12]

lol the commentators called the strikeouts "sexy"

:lol: that's the first time i've ever heard any commentator go like "strikeouts are sexy"

btw.. is it just me, or did overbay change numbers? i thought last year he was 23? :|

[pfdude]

sweet around the horn double play

[skyblue12]

now THAT was a "sexy" DP :lol:

[pfdude]

boom!

[skyblue12]

and theree she goes! a 3 run jack! :cheesygri

[skyblue12]

what a catch aaron hill! probably saved 2 runs right there :|

[skyblue12]

jays win jays win! 6-3 woot woot :lol:

who's going to the home opener tomorrow?

[asot24]

Jays win! W00t

time for Isles to win and knock out Leafs.

[skyblue12]

Jays win! W00t

time for Isles to win and knock out Leafs.

definitely not looking good for the leafs right now..

oh well, at least we still have two teams to cheer for! :cheesygri

[gordholio]

So much for the TB starter's strikeouts - I think he'd trade them for a win.

[skyblue12]

So much for the TB starter's strikeouts - I think he'd trade them for a win.

if the ball game was in toronto and kazmir was pitching for the jays, the fans would have had pizza in 3 innings :lol:

[skyblue12]

btw for those people who watched the game.. doesn't the way iwamura bat remind you of hideki matsui in a way? :| (or maybe it's ichiro i'm thinking of..)

[gordholio]

if the ball game was in toronto and kazmir was pitching for the jays, the fans would have had pizza in 3 innings :lol:

That crappy Pizza Pizza stuff? :cheesygri

[skyblue12]

That crappy Pizza Pizza stuff? :cheesygri

hey hey free pizza i'm up for that :lol:

they should give out wings instead though.. XD

[gordholio]

Maybe they have something like that at the Tampa Bay stadium.
They don't get many fans there so they must have some promotions to get some in the seats.

[skyblue12]

Maybe they have something like that at the Tampa Bay stadium.
They don't get many fans there so they must have some promotions to get some in the seats.

i'd think that they'd have a bit more fans this year, their team doesn't look too bad from what i've seen in the past 3 games, but their bullpen definitely needs a lot of work. last year i heard they set a record for blowing the most leads in games (by the bullpen) with 60.. the previous record was only like 45 games.

[Ogata]

Maybe they have something like that at the Tampa Bay stadium.
They don't get many fans there so they must have some promotions to get some in the seats.

I watched the Rogers Preview game. Apparently, if the Rays get 10K's they go to a furniature store to get a coupon for a free slice at Papa Johns Pizza which is 10X better than Pizza Pizza.

[kevin01]

Just some facts

Paid attendance during the 2006 season was 2,302,212.

2006 was the fifth consecutive season in which attendance rose.


TV audiences on Rogers Sportsnet and TSN has increased dramatically; up 91% from 2004


2006 average television game audience was 368,600; 53 million total


Toronto Blue Jays Baseball reached 781,000 listeners per week on The FAN Sports Radio Network in 2006.


Major League Baseball Advanced Media reports that in-season traffic on bluejays.com has increased 46% from 2006.


No wonder why Ted's spending so much

[radeonboy]

now THAT was a "sexy" DP :lol:

now now this is a family forum :-0 :twisted:

[spike-spiegel]

Just some facts

Paid attendance during the 2006 season was 2,302,212.

2006 was the fifth consecutive season in which attendance rose.


TV audiences on Rogers Sportsnet and TSN has increased dramatically; up 91% from 2004


2006 average television game audience was 368,600; 53 million total


Toronto Blue Jays Baseball reached 781,000 listeners per week on The FAN Sports Radio Network in 2006.


Major League Baseball Advanced Media reports that in-season traffic on bluejays.com has increased 46% from 2006.


No wonder why Ted's spending so much


You forgot one of the more important stats. Jays still lost money last year, but lost less. And should be less and less as the fanbase is rebuilt. Ted Rogers knows it's a good investment and also a good cross-promotion with his other business ventures.

[kevin01]

You forgot one of the more important stats. Jays still lost money last year, but lost less. And should be less and less as the fanbase is rebuilt. Ted Rogers knows it's a good investment and also a good cross-promotion with his other business ventures.

And you do not know why they lost money... i think it had to do with a purchase of some building, that has a roof that opens and closes. Might want to look it up, i think it was called the SkyDome or something....

They made money last year, if you take that out.

[akide]

was just at the rehearsal for tomorow's opening day at the rogers centre,

the trews will be performing the national anthems, vernon wells and frank thomas getting awards and other excitement!

[pegger06]

Jays technically lost money on the team, but Rogers probably made a whole lot more pimping their products in synergy with the Jays. Let's see... free advertising on sportsnet for them, the Rogers centre is one big Rogers advertisement.

Teddy Could make money off the team if he really wanted to (i.e just cut the payroll and allow the MLB tv deal and other money come to him), but it wouldn't be as substantial.

[brutal]

i'll be there taking the lights off the field, scream when i come out!!!

[skyblue12]

now now this is a family forum :-0 :twisted:

LOL come on now, you have to admit that double play by johnny mac was HOT :cheesygri

home opener tonight! can't wait! wooohoo

[Madchester]

And you do not know why they lost money... i think it had to do with a purchase of some building, that has a roof that opens and closes. Might want to look it up, i think it was called the SkyDome or something....

They made money last year, if you take that out.

Papa Rogers purchased the Dome for a measly $25M in 04. The Dome cost around $600M to construct. That cost hasn't been carried over into the last two seasons, save some renovations and upgrdaes.

[Spray]

Man burnett got a nice save by overbay...

[canabiz]

Not liking what I have seen so far from A.J.

Let's hope he gets in a groove soon and shows us he deserves the big paycheque as well as the #2 spot in the rotation.

[Spray]

LOL @ the old fart who interfered with the ball gets booooted

[will games]

LMFAO he got booted from the game already:razz:

[gordholio]

Blue Jays are winning 9-1 in the final inning.
I worked tonight so only got to see a bit of the game (after 9:30).
Looks like they're doing okay!

PS. 50,000 and change at the game - a sellout.

[Tofu Drift Shinji]

Nice to see AJ go 6 and 2/3 and be able to dig himself out of some holes. Good to see the offense go to work early and often.

[kevin01]

AJ was off at the start. He was really missing his location, but he worked through it.

That is what the offense is made of. If it wasnt for that blown lead in TB, we could have been 5-1 now.

[dr.slump]

AJ was off at the start. He was really missing his location, but he worked through it.

That is what the offense is made of. If it wasnt for that blown lead in TB, we could have been 5-1 now.

and if we had somehow managed to pulled off that 10-9 comeback... we could have been 6-0 now ;) :cheesygri but that's just pushing it :-0

[spike-spiegel]

And you do not know why they lost money... i think it had to do with a purchase of some building, that has a roof that opens and closes. Might want to look it up, i think it was called the SkyDome or something....

They made money last year, if you take that out.


You can't just take out the SkyDome from the operating loss. It is an important part of owning the Jays. They go hand-in-hand. Can't say without the stadium, the team made money. SkyDome is part of owning the team.

Like someone said, Rogers bought the SkyDome on the cheap. Operating and upgrading it cost a lot. Actually, it can be argued that you're wrong buying SkyDome made them lost money. Buying it basically integrated everything together and allowed them much more freedom and control.

And they lost money because of the increased payroll (which also meant less revenue sharing), renovations to the Dome. They were helped by a stronger Canadian dollar and probably more corporate advertisements and franchise integration under a single ownership.

Like I said, Ted sees Jays as a worthy investment. Don't know if he actually expects the team to turn a profit (just yet) but the external effects on his other business interests is unmeasurable (positively).

[Ogata]

LOL @ the old fart who interfered with the ball gets booooted

I saw that and so many people were forced to take their shirts off. I was there / just got back!! Amazing game!! So many people were ripping on Mark Teahan though. Going again tomorrow!

[kevin01]

You can't just take out the SkyDome from the operating loss. It is an important part of owning the Jays. They go hand-in-hand. Can't say without the stadium, the team made money. SkyDome is part of owning the team.

Like someone said, Rogers bought the SkyDome on the cheap. Operating and upgrading it cost a lot. Actually, it can be argued that you're wrong buying SkyDome made them lost money. Buying it basically integrated everything together and allowed them much more freedom and control.

And they lost money because of the increased payroll (which also meant less revenue sharing), renovations to the Dome. They were helped by a stronger Canadian dollar and probably more corporate advertisements and franchise integration under a single ownership.

Like I said, Ted sees Jays as a worthy investment. Don't know if he actually expects the team to turn a profit (just yet) but the external effects on his other business interests is unmeasurable (positively).

Yes but you said that the losses will slowly come back. Even Ted came out and said that without the purchase of the skydome ($50-something million), they would have made money. They lost $25 million last year, and to Rogers, that is nothing.

[Ogata]

Anyone going to the game tonight? Chris Bosch is throwing out the first pitch tonight and its Josh Towers pitching!!

[NDman]

People might actually be happier if Towers was throwing the ceremonial pitch and Bosh on the mount for the Jays :cheesygri

Kidding aside, I really don't think Towers will repeat the disastrous 2006 season, nor the very good 2005 season. I consider both abberation and he belongs somewhere in the middle -- a serviceable 5th starter with a bumpy ride at times.

[brutal]

Anyone going to the game tonight? Chris Bosch is throwing out the first pitch tonight and its Josh Towers pitching!!

intersting!! i want to see how Bosh pitches, perhaps his talls stature he can be the 5th man in the rotation!

[spike-spiegel]

Yes but you said that the losses will slowly come back. Even Ted came out and said that without the purchase of the skydome ($50-something million), they would have made money. They lost $25 million last year, and to Rogers, that is nothing.

No, I said the losses will slowly go down. They didn't buy the Dome last year, they bought two years ago.

[Ogata]

Another stupid promotion that was new when I was there. You can win $649bucks for dancing as part of the Lotto 649. Don't know if it was just for that day. I think the Opening Day GM contest was rigged. aside from that, they released El Ranchero products and they have some race according to the level your in. We are not in Texas...:|

[Spray]

Land value of the skydome alone has got to be worth 50 million no?

[kevin01]

No, I said the losses will slowly go down. They didn't buy the Dome last year, they bought two years ago.

Trust me, Ted Rogers even said that they lost money mainly because of the SkyDome. If i had the article, Id show it to you, i remember reading about it on the jays forum and prosportsdaily

[spike-spiegel]

Trust me, Ted Rogers even said that they lost money mainly because of the SkyDome. If i had the article, Id show it to you, i remember reading about it on the jays forum and prosportsdaily

Never said I didn't believe. Of course running a stadium like Dome would be a big cost. Same with having a payroll of $90-100 million. Operating the Dome for baseball games and the baseball team are not mutually exclusive. Owning the Dome also means other non-baseball venues though. So ummm... what are you arguing?

[canabiz]

Would love to see Alex Rios finding his touches again like last year's (pre-All Star)

[kevin01]

Never said I didn't believe. Of course running a stadium like Dome would be a big cost. Same with having a payroll of $90-100 million. Operating the Dome for baseball games and the baseball team are not mutually exclusive. Owning the Dome also means other non-baseball venues though. So ummm... what are you arguing?

lol youll see a gain in income this year, and it will be on the plus side.

[skyblue12]

Would love to see Alex Rios finding his touches again like last year's (pre-All Star)

and pre-stupid-a**-staph-infection

[thelefteyeguy]

as much as I hate towers....our D tonight killed him

[HockeyGirl]

6-3..

since when did the jays have that horn for when they score, i mean hit a HR?
i was typing and i hear it im like whaat? hockey! :cheesygri

[skyblue12]

6-3..

since when did the jays have that horn for when they score, i mean hit a HR?
i was typing and i hear it im like whaat? hockey! :cheesygri

LOL that horn is kind of annoying.

i was at the game last season when the announcer guy in the stadium said that they had installed a horn that goes off when the jays hit a HR.

tbh i wish it went back to the way before, when they were allowed fireworks.. but i guess a horn is better than nothing at all :lol: then again.. horn doesn't really fit.. a baseball setting.. :|

[Spray]

Well...I picked Johnson for my beat the streak hitter.

I sure hope at this point they dont pinch hit him :( Gotta keep my streak alive!

[skyblue12]

Well...I picked Johnson for my beat the streak hitter.

I sure hope at this point they dont pinch hit him :( Gotta keep my streak alive!

oh crap.. speaking of bts i haven't submitted my picks for tomorrow yet! ahh

[Spray]

please dont sub johnson for stairs...please please please

[skyblue12]

please dont sub johnson for stairs...please please please

if he pinch hit for stairs, and hit one out, would you still be sad? :lol:

[skyblue12]

holy cow.. what's with the jays defense today? 4 errors?! :eek:

[HockeyGirl]

LOL that horn is kind of annoying.

i was at the game last season when the announcer guy in the stadium said that they had installed a horn that goes off when the jays hit a HR.

tbh i wish it went back to the way before, when they were allowed fireworks.. but i guess a horn is better than nothing at all :lol: then again.. horn doesn't really fit.. a baseball setting.. :|

yeah, i prefered the fireworks... wonder why they changed it...

Hearing that made me miss the leafs :(

[skyblue12]

yeah, i prefered the fireworks... wonder why they changed it...

Hearing that made me miss the leafs :(

i think they weren't allowed to set the fireworks off after a HR anymore, not sure of the details though.

[skyblue12]

sigh.. guess we're going to have to rely on 9th inning heroics to pull off a victory today :|

[skyblue12]

nooo it's a final, no late game heroics today ):

errors killed us.. anybody know the team record for errors in a game?

[skyblue12]

wow.. nobody posted here since i last posted yesterday night!

going to the game sunday against detroiet :cheesygri

[Spray]

Hill is quickly becoming a really great player. I'd love to see him in the 2 hole soon. With his bat contact and reed johnsons speed I could see a lot of hit and runs. Overbay is kinda slacking lately in that 2 hole.

[spike-spiegel]

Hill is quickly becoming a really great player. I'd love to see him in the 2 hole soon. With his bat contact and reed johnsons speed I could see a lot of hit and runs. Overbay is kinda slacking lately in that 2 hole.

Hill is the prototypical #2 hitter (although his speed isn't too quick). Too bad Overbay and Rios can also be #2 hitter too.

The Overbay experiment in #2 hasn't been working as well as they had hoped. If it continues like this, I can see Rios being put up there. In fact, even Reed Johnson can be a #2 hitter and Rios can lead off. Johnson is better at working counts and fouling off tough pitches, but Rios has better gap power. Both strike out too much and not enough walks for traditional lead-off hitters though. Hill can remain at #7 to solidify the bottom of the order.

I honestly can see Hill reach his potential at .310/12/70 with 35 doubles. Those can be all-star numbers at 2B.

[asot24]

Overbay will be fine. He's been facing lefties last few days which is a problem for left handed batters.
Offence of this team is amazing.

[skyblue12]

Overbay will be fine. He's been facing lefties last few days which is a problem for left handed batters.
Offence of this team is amazing.

overbay got a hit! my bts streak is still alive :razz:

ryan is a monster.. made david dejesus look silly :lol:

[Spray]

told you he was a monster!
And dammit A. Rod needs to get a hit his next AB or im screwed.

[skyblue12]

told you he was a monster!
And dammit A. Rod needs to get a hit his next AB or im screwed.

haha yes spray.. going with the hottest hitter in the league.. :lol: 6 HR's already.. ridiculous :|

[Spray]

YES AND HE HITS A DOUBLE
The Streak stays alive at Six!!!!

[jerryhung]

Aaron Hill is getting really good, and clutch

Frank Thomas hasn't been too useful from the games I've watched (I did not see the grand slam game)

Poor Josh Towers, AJ and Chacin got good hits and opponent defense errors. Towers got zippo, and he faced a good pitcher too

[Spray]

Frank Thomas usually gets off to a slow start...that being said he's still got a 350+ OBP. He's got a pretty good eye at the plate. I dont think it'll be too long before he gets that rust off and starts smacking the long balls.

[thecharlie]

I just picked up a BJ Ryan jersey today. It was especially sweet seeing him close with my jersey on! :cheesygri

[Rocketo]

Aaron Hill has 9 RBIs already..

[skyblue12]

Aaron Hill has 9 RBIs already..

he's having a pretty good start.. then again we're only what.. 8 games into the season.

[Spray]

Speaking of Hill...he says peaCE

[skyblue12]

is aaron hill HOT or what..

in terms of his hitting.. not.. yeah..

[skyblue12]

how many times has matt stairs hit the ball unintentionally on a check swing.. i've seen 2 in the last 2 games :lol:

[will games]

how many times has matt stairs hit the ball unintentionally on a check swing.. i've seen 2 in the last 2 games :lol:

I was gonna type the same thing. That really pisses me off when he does that:razz:

[Spray]

why the heck is stairs playing when Johnson's numbers are so good against this guy. Dammit I want Johnson in...i need my hit!

[skyblue12]

why the heck is stairs playing when Johnson's numbers are so good against this guy. Dammit I want Johnson in...i need my hit!

yeah i don't see why either.. i mean you'd think gibby would put the right-hander against the left-handed maroth.. but there's a reason behind everything :| stairs hasn't done that bad anyway.. single / walk so far..

like i said spray, your streak still stays alive.. you're better off if reed doesn't come into the game to pinch hit.. cause then he'd probably only get one AB, and he'd only have one chance to give you that hit :lol: if he stays out of the game.. bts thing will just skip today :|

[skyblue12]

what's with the errors lately? not sure how many there were in last night's game.. but didn't the jays have 4 the night before? they have another 2 tonight.. :| cmon guys!

[skyblue12]

CMON jason smith HR will tie up this game!

*puts rally cap on*

where is everybody anyway ):

[jerryhung]

WTH... our 7,8,9 are doing better than others
Where's Rios, Wells, Thomas, Glaus when we need them? :(
so close.... got 0 with bases loaded, sigh

5-4 now, last chance, give me some HRs

[skyblue12]

okay.. overbay pinch hits for smith and gets 1 more run.. let's hope that zambrano doesn't give up any more in the top of the 9th so we have a chance in the bottom :cheesygri

ps. i feel like a fool posting in this thread by myself :lol:

[skyblue12]

WTH... our 7,8,9 are doing better than others
Where's Rios, Wells, Thomas, Glaus when we need them? :(
so close.... got 0 with bases loaded, sigh

5-4 now, last chance, give me some HRs

our 7,8,9 hitters have the most combined RBI's in the league.. which is really impressive :lol:

at least they're picking up the big hitters, i'd rather get some production from the bottom of the rotation than no production from anybody or from only one person.

and btw glaus left earlier in the game because his left heel started acting up again :|

[skyblue12]

woohoo props to down for not giving up any more runs! :lol:

jays comeback win in the bottom of the 9th.. come on come on

[skyblue12]

wow.. zumaya can throw some heat

102mph.. :eek:

good game jays.. tbh the bottom of the lineup had a better chance of tying the ball game than the heart of the lineup..

and aaron hill has his 2nd homer of the season already! how many did he have last year all season.. like 3? :|

[blexann]

Frank Thomas is awful

[skyblue12]

Frank Thomas is awful

it's 9 games into the season.. come on.

[Rocketo]

frank thomas is awful right now let's hope he comes around cuz boy he gets caught looking a lot...and the jays are 0-2 when matt stairs starts why the hell do u put him at the 2 spot boggles my mind...

[asot24]

Frank Thomas is awful

he's a hall of famer and we're 8 games into the season. Relax.

[skyblue12]

frank thomas is awful right now let's hope he comes around cuz boy he gets caught looking a lot...and the jays are 0-2 when matt stairs starts why the hell do u put him at the 2 spot boggles my mind...

it's not that.. it's the fact that maroth was pitching today and he's a lefty.. so why would you want a lefty-lefty matchup? i'm trying to see matt's lifetime stats against maroth.. but still one would believe that having a righty in reed johnson against maroth would be the way to go..

frank thomas isn't exactly doing what he's supposed to do.. and that's be our clean up hitter but like i said, it's only 9 games into the season. i believe last season it took him a while to come around and he ended up almost becoming the mlb comeback player of the season.. (i think he was injured earlier on last season?) i might be confusing some facts..

anyway it's way to early to judge frank.. but i have to admit that there have been times that he's looked a bit silly at the plate.. i saw some pitches today that were right down the middle and he was just staring at it.. and there were a few where the ball wasn't nearly even close to him and it looked like he was backing away as if the ball was going to hit him.

[skyblue12]

he's a hall of famer and we're 8 games into the season. Relax.

9 games now :lol:

and yes.. most likely going to cooperstown sometime down the road and he's a veteran.. not everybody starts off the season like A-Rod has :lol:

[501]

last year was obviously a fluke... thomas has been washed up for years. :!:

[skyblue12]

last year was obviously a fluke... thomas has been washed up for years. :!:

he's been injured so much.. the jays took a chance with him this year, we're really hoping that he can repeat what he showed in the second half of last season with the A's and hopefully he doesn't get injured again

why are so many people judging thomas when it's been only NINE games into the season

geezus! relax people! what are you guys going to say at the end of the season if thomas hits 35 HRs and drives in 100 + :lol:

[blexann]

I'm not judging him on his numbers after 9 games - although his numbers are terrible it's how he handles himself at the plate.

-constantly falls behind in the count
-is late on many fast balls - your cleanup guy cannot be late on fastballs
-call it a good eye ....but he takes way too many good pitches
-his Left on Base numbers have to be off the scale by now

I agree with the other poster that his best years are way past him and last year was a fluke.

[asot24]

lol if you are seriously bashing him based on NINE games.. you are being WAY too pre-mature.

Come back in 40 games and speak then. He's not hurt so he'll be fine.

[skyblue12]

I'm not judging him on his numbers after 9 games - although his numbers are terrible it's how he handles himself at the plate.

-constantly falls behind in the count
-is late on many fast balls - your cleanup guy cannot be late on fastballs
-call it a good eye ....but he takes way too many good pitches
-his Left on Base numbers have to be off the scale by now

I agree with the other poster that his best years are way past him and last year was a fluke.

wait till later on in the season. this may be happening now, but it may be because he's in a sort of a slump right now, not because he's a fluke. i'm fine with people bashing him if he continues the way he's going now, and looking bad at the plate, but honestly after 9 games.. i don't care if he doesn't even have a hit. it's just way too early. but i respect the points that you made, and i agree with most of them, but again.. it's too early in the season to make anything out of it. we'll just have to see.

[jling6]

it's not that.. it's the fact that maroth was pitching today and he's a lefty.. so why would you want a lefty-lefty matchup? i'm trying to see matt's lifetime stats against maroth.. but still one would believe that having a righty in reed johnson against maroth would be the way to go..

Reed Johnson is day to day with a sore back.

edit: link - http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070412&content_id=1895165&vkey=news_tor&fext=.jsp&c_id=tor

[NDman]

frank thomas is awful right now let's hope he comes around cuz boy he gets caught looking a lot...and the jays are 0-2 when matt stairs starts why the hell do u put him at the 2 spot boggles my mind...
There's this Berkman guy in Houston who has been downright awful too. I propose a Thomas-Berkman straight up? Sounds fair ;)

Even it is only 9 games into the season, it does already look like, as many had predicted before the season started, the defense could be the Jays Achilles heel

[asot24]

There's this Berkman guy in Houston who has been downright awful too. I propose a Thomas-Berkman straight up? Sounds fair ;)

Even it is only 9 games into the season, it does already look like, as many had predicted before the season started, the defense could be the Jays Achilles heel

Defence? Jays have probably the best defensive outfield in baseball when Reed is in the line-up. Clayton and Hill are great too. The only sub-par defender on the team is Glaus, and when McDonald fills in for him look out. Sure we've made our fair share of errors so far but if anything our achilles heel is Starting Pitching. Not defense.

[NDman]

I hear you. I should have been more clear that I was talking about the infield defense. Overbay is a great fielder, that's been established. So is Johnny Mac, but he's a bench player. Clayton might have decent fielding percentage, but his defense is quite overrated. His RF and ZR suggest that he lacks range. He does have good (low) error numbers. I am not sold on Hill's defense yet so I wouldn't rate their infield defense too highly.

The outfield in the mean time, IS good

[skyblue12]

Defence? Jays have probably the best defensive outfield in baseball when Reed is in the line-up. Clayton and Hill are great too. The only sub-par defender on the team is Glaus, and when McDonald fills in for him look out. Sure we've made our fair share of errors so far but if anything our achilles heel is Starting Pitching. Not defense.

but they haven't shown it lately.. we've had like.. what 7 errors in the last 3 games already.. which is :eek:

like i said before.. 4 errors 3 games ago, i believe 1 error 2 games ago, and another 2 yesterday night.

[thelefteyeguy]

seems the analyst were correct...Jays again will be in the middle of the pack

Pitching is very suspect, and the defense is still an issue.

The hype (myself included) on the offense this yr has yet to show. Hopefully it's like the Raptors...they are starting out slowly.

[skyblue12]

seems the analyst were correct...Jays again will be in the middle of the pack

Pitching is very suspect, and the defense is still an issue.

The hype (myself included) on the offense this yr has yet to show. Hopefully it's like the Raptors...they are starting out slowly.

raptors went 2-8 to start off the season.. then went on a tear. jays season is twice as long as the raps season.. if we start worrying after 9 games, we're not going to last the rest of the 153 games of the season :lol:

but i agree.. pitching hasn't exactly been that great, especially the bottom of the rotation. our top 3 guys really need to win win win, because we can't rely our 4th and 5th starters to pick us up, like how our 7th, 8th and 9th hitters can pick up the heart of the order when they're in slumps. if the bottom of our rotation can't keep up, we're going to get rocked by the offense of teams like the yankees, red sox, and even the tigers.

[NDman]

seems the analyst were correct...Jays again will be in the middle of the pack


BUT BUT BUT!!! A simple fact -- Jays are 1st in AL East :D

[skyblue12]

BUT BUT BUT!!! A simple fact -- Jays are 1st in AL East :D

haha really? i thought jays would fall in the standings after yesterday's loss..

cool =D

[ggs]

bullpen's been about just what i expected, if not a bit better.. bats you're right, the big boys have yet to really show up. looks like it's just a team where a lot of guys can go yard, lots of power.

back end of the rotation definitely needs some work, none of em really instill confidence when they're out on the mound, i wouldnt want to pay to see anyone besides doc/aj pitch.

[skyblue12]

bullpen's been about just what i expected, if not a bit better.. bats you're right, the big boys have yet to really show up. looks like it's just a team where a lot of guys can go yard, lots of power.

back end of the rotation definitely needs some work, none of em really instill confidence when they're out on the mound, i wouldnt want to pay to see anyone besides doc/aj pitch.

+1

i wouldn't mind chacin.. i think he can be pretty good at times, but ohka? i don't know..

i'm going to the game on sunday and towers is pitching.. let's see how he'll do then. hopefully he can do good, i don't want to see the jays get rocked by the tigers.

our heart of the lineup isn't just filled with players who can go yard.. they're experienced players who can go yard, so i don't think we have anything to worry about.. at least not yet. besides.. the jays are averaging around 7 runs a game.. which is pretty good.

[Spray]

The real problem has been Gibbons screwing around with the lineup. Once Johnson is back in the one spot, and overbay gets out of his mini slump and starts driving in Johnson, you're going to see a LOT of 1st inning runs by the Jays. That in turn makes the pitchers feel a litlte more relaxed and helps the team overall.

Also Thomas is having some bad luck. It's almost like the umpires have no idea how to call strikes around him due to his sheer size. I've seen so many awful strikes called on him this homestand I cant even believe it.

Towers looked pretty good, it was bad luck with all the runs he gave up. I'm actually somewhat impressed with the starting pitchers so far (Except for that first outing by AJ).

The one thing that's bugging me so far, as it did last year, is how damn sensitive Glaus is to injuries in his legs/feet.

[wesleyw]

Panic button being pressed already?! Or "panac" I mean...:D

I think there is definitely alot of positives that the Jays are showing this season. The fact that the bigger bats are not producing, and yet the Jays' offence is still producing at a major league's best (I don't know after yesterday, but before that) is definitely a positive sign. Frasor has been lights out so far this year, and besides the one blown save, BJ seems to be where he was to start the year last year. Definitely the concern is there for the backend of the rotation. With Chacin usually throwing 6 innings tops, and AJ's starts looking like a roller coaster ride, that might become a concern in the future. Towers looked decent in his first start, so hopefully that trend will continue. I really think he won't have the same record as last season, but I also don't see him going back to his form in 04 and 05. If we can get 6 IP/S, 10 wins or so from him, thats already good. I'm really surprised as to how bad their defense has been so far this year. I guess that means there is only one way to go, and thats up.

[NDman]

The real problem has been Gibbons screwing around with the lineup. Once Johnson is back in the one spot, and overbay gets out of his mini slump and starts driving in Johnson, you're going to see a LOT of 1st inning runs by the Jays. That in turn makes the pitchers feel a litlte more relaxed and helps the team overall.

How's it Gibbon's fault when Johnson is hurt (day-to-day) and both him and Overbay have been hitting 1-2 when they are available? If anything, I'd say it was Gibbon's reluctance to move Rios to the 2-hole to shake up the offense a little

[skyblue12]

How's it Gibbon's fault when Johnson is hurt (day-to-day) and both him and Overbay have been hitting 1-2 when they are available? If anything, I'd say it was Gibbon's reluctance to move Rios to the 2-hole to shake up the offense a little

i like the starting lineup as johnson - overbay

johnson has a high on-base percentage, he's able to get on base a lot and he's capable of stealing bases.

overbay we know that he has the ability to hit a lot of doubles.

get on base, steal, double, run scored :lol: easier said than done, but with these two starting off it happens more often than having another combination at the 1 - 2 spot.

actually even if johnson doesn't steal 2nd he has a pretty chance to come all the way home with a double to the wall by overbay.

[kevin01]

Yesterdays HP Ump was garbage.... his strikezone was more to the outside of the batters.

[skyblue12]

no more johnson.. he's been placed on the 15 day dl with a back injury. (or soreness)

[asot24]

Halladay is a ****ing beast. 10 Inning win.
2 bunt singles and sac hahah Rodney.
Great game Jays.

[skyblue12]

jays win 2-1 in the bottom of the 10th.. what a pitching duel

halladay goes 9 strong :cheesygri

bottom of the 10th and the jays load up the bases.. alex rios sac-flies the winning run! woot

and rios gets his first homer of the season in the first inning.. good to see.

[bugmenot2]

jays win 2-1 in the bottom of the 10th.. what a pitching duel

halladay goes 9 strong :cheesygri

bottom of the 10th and the jays load up the bases.. alex rios sac-flies the winning run! woot

and rios gets his first homer of the season in the first inning.. good to see.


Halladay goes 10 STRONG

And Rios is reaching his Superstar Status

[skyblue12]

Halladay goes 10 STRONG

And Rios is reaching his Superstar Status

my mistake, i thought he was pulled after 9 innings.

here's hit pitching line:

IP: 10
H: 6
R: 1
ER: 1
BB: 0 (very impressive)
SO: 2
HR: 1
ERA: 2.35

only 107 pitches thrown..

what a game!

[kevin01]

what a win. LoL that is 2 wins against Rodney in the 10th inning now.

[wesleyw]

What a pitching performance by both pitchers...Halladay was effective as always, and Bonderman is slowly but surely securing his place as a front-end starting pitcher in the major league.

[keunganator]

superb game by both starting pitchers!
Halladay was showing his Cy Young stuff out there going 10 strong!

[kevin01]

Bonderman is going to be something special one day if he is not already.

[spike-spiegel]

Bonderman is going to be something special one day if he is not already.

Not with that crappy slider. ;)


Halladay says to Bonderman, GET THAT GARBAGE OUT OF HERE!

Big time ONIONS by Doc tonight!

[flyingdutchman]

Damn...Halladay did not walk any batters....that is an amazing stat!

[skyblue12]

what a win. LoL that is 2 wins against Rodney in the 10th inning now.

what's with this guy. every time i see him pitch against the jays, even last season, he either gives up the lead or does really bad and gives up important runs. he did it last year, and this year i think he's blown it twice against the jays as well, one earlier on in the season and one yesterday.

two bunt singles and he wasn't able to get the jays out.. (although the jays DID place pretty good bunts down)

i kind of feel sorry for him :lol: every time we see rodney have an outing he messes up :lol:

[kevin01]

what's with this guy. every time i see him pitch against the jays, even last season, he either gives up the lead or does really bad and gives up important runs. he did it last year, and this year i think he's blown it twice against the jays as well, one earlier on in the season and one yesterday.

two bunt singles and he wasn't able to get the jays out.. (although the jays DID place pretty good bunts down)

i kind of feel sorry for him :lol: every time we see rodney have an outing he messes up :lol:

lol yeah i felt sorry for him... he looks likes hes under A LOT of pressure, like he scared of whats gonna happen after the game.

[skyblue12]

on a side note: did overbay's number change from last year?

[Spray]

Rodney def needs to work on some bunting practice, least that first one. I dont like that guy anyways, hate how he dresses like a thug.

[skyblue12]

Rodney def needs to work on some bunting practice, least that first one. I dont like that guy anyways, hate how he dresses like a thug.

haha.. i assume you mean the bling on his neck? :lol:

[kevin01]

on a side note: did overbay's number change from last year?

yeah, he gave his number to thomas. he had 35 last year, and he gave the number to Thomas and took 17

[skyblue12]

yeah, he gave his number to thomas. he had 35 last year, and he gave the number to Thomas and took 17

ahh.. thanks :)

[Paul Kellerman]

Not with that crappy slider. ;)


Halladay says to Bonderman, GET THAT GARBAGE OUT OF HERE!

Big time ONIONS by Doc tonight!He needs to talk to Dave Stieb and learn his slider.

[xopt1js]

lol yeah i felt sorry for him... he looks likes hes under A LOT of pressure, like he scared of whats gonna happen after the game.

Wouldn't you be scared if you were him? :lol: I know I would be!

On a side note: Your Avatar and Sig are priceless. :cheesygri

[skyblue12]

7-6!

frank thomas is not doing good. 0-3 so far tonight.

adam lind's in LF today! got 2 hits

and wells / overbay / rios all have homers

[skyblue12]

ryan doesn't have his stuff today.

[skyblue12]

wooohooo.. blown save bj ryan.

[canabiz]

Blue Jays are falling apart here in the 9th inning fellas

I don't consider the Detroit Tigers to be on the same par with the Jays, at least talent-wise and for the Jays to lose 2 outta 3 so far especially at home, it's disappointing to say the least.

[skyblue12]

10-7 gg. this game is done..

[skyblue12]

Blue Jays are falling apart here in the 9th inning fellas

I don't consider the Detroit Tigers to be on the same par with the Jays, at least talent-wise and for the Jays to lose 2 outta 3 so far especially at home, it's disappointing to say the least.

i'm going to the game tomorrow.. they better not disappoint :|

[canabiz]

i'm going to the game tomorrow.. they better not disappoint :|

Well we have Josh for tomorrow and Nate Robertson for the Tigers who is on fire early on, would like to be optimistic obviously but that sinking feeling you got when you have a lead going into the 9th and all hell broke loose

[skyblue12]

Well we have Josh for tomorrow and Nate Robertson for the Tigers who is on fire early on, would like to be optimistic obviously but that sinking feeling you got when you have a lead going into the 9th and all hell broke loose

yeah i'm not exactly.. impressed with josh towers yet (though it's really early on in the season). let's see how he does after his regular 4 day rest.

luckily i didn't go to the game today.. tbh i wanted to today and watch AJ pitch instead, looks like it would have been a big disappointment.

[asot24]

Nice ****ing pitching BJ you douche.

[skyblue12]

Nice ****ing pitching BJ you douche.

errr...

[spike-spiegel]

Blue Jays are falling apart here in the 9th inning fellas

I don't consider the Detroit Tigers to be on the same par with the Jays, at least talent-wise and for the Jays to lose 2 outta 3 so far especially at home, it's disappointing to say the least.

Tigers aren't at the par with Jays... they are a better team. Better rotation, better bullpen. Offence is about the same. Tigers are a good team, last year was not a fluke.

But still no excuses. Jays had this game. When the closer comes in, it's supposed to be a win. Ryan looked off, the back injury or not getting enough innings in spring might be affecting him. Either way, Jays can't lose games like this by errors and imploding late.

[skyblue12]

is it just me or did the ump suck today too? it seemed like a LOT of pitches were borderline and the ump called it a ball.. many were REALLY close and probably were strikes and it wasn't called one. then again what do i know? :|

[flyingdutchman]

OMG.........BJ RYAN...thats ur second blown save this season!

[skyblue12]

OMG.........BJ RYAN...thats ur second blown save this season!

is it true that he didn't give up ANY ER's last year? O.O i thought his ERA was about 1.. what did jamie campbell say about ryan not giving up any runs last season? o.O

[flyingdutchman]

He gave up 11ER last year

GP-65
GS-0
W-2
L-2
SV-38
IP-72.1
H-42
R-12
ER-11
HR-3
K-86

[skyblue12]

He gave up 11ER last year

GP-65
GS-0
W-2
L-2
SV-38
IP-72.1
H-42
R-12
ER-11
HR-3
K-86

yeah that's what i was thinking.. then what was the thing about not giving up runs o.O jamie campbell said something like that in the top of the 9th before he gave up those runs

[flyingdutchman]

He didnt give up any runs in the last 13 games he played last season...maybe that

[skyblue12]

He didnt give up any runs in the last 13 games he played last season...maybe that

maybe.. but early this season his ERA is already 7+ (it's probably gone up after today)

but still.. pretty early on in the season.. don't think we should be worrying that much about BJ. should worry more about our defense instead :|

[asot24]

lol

[asot24]

is it true that he didn't give up ANY ER's last year? O.O i thought his ERA was about 1.. what did jamie campbell say about ryan not giving up any runs last season? o.O

err....

[skyblue12]

errrr......

i "err-ed" your comment cause i thought it was unnecessary to call ryan a.. yeah.. :|

he blew 2 games in the past week.. and i'm pretty pissed but that broken bat flare down the line was pretty gay.

[skyblue12]

err....

i was quoting what i heard..

[canabiz]

Tigers aren't at the par with Jays... they are a better team. Better rotation, better bullpen. Offence is about the same. Tigers are a good team, last year was not a fluke.

But still no excuses. Jays had this game. When the closer comes in, it's supposed to be a win. Ryan looked off, the back injury or not getting enough innings in spring might be affecting him. Either way, Jays can't lose games like this by errors and imploding late.

I don't want to argue about the Tigers being the better team than the Jays since this thread is about the Jays and not the Tigers but I have to disagree with you about that very point.

You say Tigers and Jays offence is about the same. I would beg to differ. Straight from the source here, Jays' offence is 1st in the league while Tigers' is 23rd

http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/sortable_team_stats.jsp then go to Hitting

I know it's still early in the season but that's what stats are for.

Tigers' rotation have Bonderman and Verlander, we got Doc and A.J., Nate Robertson and Gustavo Chacin are probably equal. Zumaya brings some heat and T. Jones have been solid but so are B.J. and Frasor

Better-managed team yes, better team no, not IMHO

Here's a hypothetical question: If you put the Tigers in the A.L. East, would you think they will finish the season on a higher notch than the Jays or lower ?

Cheers.

[afong56]

man, ryan really impressed me last year--he was flat out dominant.

however, watching him throw against the tigers today was depressing--he definitely didn't overmatch any of detroit's top hitters. . .i hope this is only a blip and he turns it around. . .i drafted him in at least one of my fantasy teams. the jays desperately need him to forget about this game.

[spike-spiegel]

I don't want to argue about the Tigers being the better team than the Jays since this thread is about the Jays and not the Tigers but I have to disagree with you about that very point.

You say Tigers and Jays offence is about the same. I would beg to differ. Straight from the source here, Jays' offence is 1st in the league while Tigers' is 23rd

http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/sortable_team_stats.jsp then go to Hitting

I know it's still early in the season but that's what stats are for.

Tigers' rotation have Bonderman and Verlander, we got Doc and A.J., Nate Robertson and Gustavo Chacin are probably equal. Zumaya brings some heat and T. Jones have been solid but so are B.J. and Frasor

Better-managed team yes, better team no, not IMHO

Here's a hypothetical question: If you put the Tigers in the A.L. East, would you think they will finish the season on a higher notch than the Jays or lower ?

Cheers.



Argue away. If it pertains to the Jays, it belongs here. :D

The offence stats are from only 10 games. Yes, Detroit is struggling and Jays have been hitting. But you have to look at HOW the Tigers are winning (same record as Jays now) with their offence. Check the scores of both team to compare. But I think it's too early to look at the stats. If you look at projections, it should be pretty close.

Halladay is better than Bonderman. AJ and Verlander, that's a tougher call. AJ has the potential and Verlander has the ROY season. But that's tough, either way is not by a wide margin. Chacin is nowhere near Robertson. And Towers and Ohka are gambles right now, as is Durbin in DET.

Can't just look at the closer and setup man. Bullpen as a whole, Jays have been surprisingly solid thus far. But Tigers made to the World Series with that pitching and bullpen. That is something that can't be overlooked. It comes to asking yourself: which bullpen would you rather have for this season, Tigers' or Jays'? I think Jays' is good but I would take the Tigers.

I really think Tigers are the better team. They can beat teams in more ways than the Jays can. In a playoff series it is different because then Doc might pitch twice so those hypothetical are useless.

Hmmm... Tigers in the AL East... With the unbalanced schedule, Tigers match up better with NYY and BOS (re: better pitching). Tigers will probably be first or second in the AL East. But Jays can also be first or second, BUT depending on their pitching.

I don't see as many weaknesses on Tigers as on the Jays. The thing with the Tigers is they went back to their early season form from last season, free swinging. That's what they are doing now, they haven't worked counts like they did in the playoffs. But once they get into that form again, they will be tougher.

But the AL Central and AL East are very close. I expect a regress from White Sox, a slight drop for the Twins, and a resurgence of Indians. And now, NYY BOS TOR are all around the same.

[asot24]

Tigers aren't better than Jays.
Not offensively, or defensively.
Pitching we're about equal.

[skyblue12]

man, ryan really impressed me last year--he was flat out dominant.

however, watching him throw against the tigers today was depressing--he definitely didn't overmatch any of detroit's top hitters. . .i hope this is only a blip and he turns it around. . .i drafted him in at least one of my fantasy teams. the jays desperately need him to forget about this game.

his pitches were so high today.. usually they're right down the middle, today it seemed like they were way high.

[canabiz]

spike, you can't discount the fact that the Tigers were perennial doormat (plenty of 100+ losses seasons) before Dombrowski and Leyland came on board

I guess you could say the same about the Jays here who went through some rough stretch in the late 90's (Tim Johnson, Gord Ash) before J.P. checked in

You just need to do a search for Dombrowski and Tigers on Google and you will see plenty of articles praising his knack for finding the diamond in the rough and his leadership skills. Add Leyland who is well-known for getting the most out of his players and it's a lethal combo

Which brings me to my original point: The Tigers are not better than the Jays, talent-wise but it's a better-managed organization. Just look at the example of Nate Robertson that we discussed earlier, the guy was very so-so and below average in his early careers but has stepped it up a notch and made tremendous strides in the last couple of years. It could be a change in attitude, a change in mechanics, whatever it is, it works and you have to tip your hat to them.

Cheers!

[kevin01]

Want to know why BJ is blowing saves.... HES NOT READY TO CLOSE THIS SEASON, HE IS HURT. Stupid Gibbons is rushing him back into the season, he didnt pitch a lot in the spring and then he just throws him into pressure filled games. I bet you Zambrano is going to blow his arm any time now too.

[Rocketo]

Frank Thomas sucks

[spike-spiegel]

spike, you can't discount the fact that the Tigers were perennial doormat (plenty of 100+ losses seasons) before Dombrowski and Leyland came on board

I guess you could say the same about the Jays here who went through some rough stretch in the late 90's (Tim Johnson, Gord Ash) before J.P. checked in

You just need to do a search for Dombrowski and Tigers on Google and you will see plenty of articles praising his knack for finding the diamond in the rough and his leadership skills. Add Leyland who is well-known for getting the most out of his players and it's a lethal combo

I didn't discount any of that. :confused: But we are talking about this season and some of last season. I never said anything about the management. Plus, only 1 or 2 players remain from the 120+ loss season three years ago.


Which brings me to my original point: The Tigers are not better than the Jays, talent-wise but it's a better-managed organization. Just look at the example of Nate Robertson that we discussed earlier, the guy was very so-so and below average in his early careers but has stepped it up a notch and made tremendous strides in the last couple of years. It could be a change in attitude, a change in mechanics, whatever it is, it works and you have to tip your hat to them.

Cheers!

I thought we were talking about this season's team. Not the entire organization. If the whole organization, then it is a different story. But if we are talking about this season alone, Tigers are the better team. Organization wise? That'll take much more thought.

[canabiz]

I didn't discount any of that. :confused: But we are talking about this season and some of last season. I never said anything about the management. Plus, only 1 or 2 players remain from the 120+ loss season three years ago.




I thought we were talking about this season's team. Not the entire organization. If the whole organization, then it is a different story. But if we are talking about this season alone, Tigers are the better team. Organization wise? That'll take much more thought.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree here spike. You have the opinion that the Tigers is better than the Jays because they have better players overall.

I will stick to my original thought: The Tigers is a better-managed team and not necessarily a team with more talents.

Cheers

[asot24]

Want to know why BJ is blowing saves.... HES NOT READY TO CLOSE THIS SEASON, HE IS HURT. Stupid Gibbons is rushing him back into the season, he didnt pitch a lot in the spring and then he just throws him into pressure filled games. I bet you Zambrano is going to blow his arm any time now too.

So take out Zambrano and Ryan according to you? Great.. now our bull-pen really looks good! /sarcasm.

We don't have anybody else right now, our bullpen maybe rushed in there but with League out and Speier+Schoenweis gone.. we got nobody else!

Janssen can't pitch every game...

[Ogata]

If anyone needs some tickets for this Tuesday,

http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=431405

If my rotation looks right, Daisuke will be pitching on this day aka Toonie Tuesday. Too bad Ryan blew it again today. Detroit has a better managed team than us I think.

[skyblue12]

If anyone needs some tickets for this Tuesday,

http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=431405

If my rotation looks right, Daisuke will be pitching on this day aka Toonie Tuesday. Too bad Ryan blew it again today. Detroit has a better managed team than us I think.

damnn i wanna go on tuesday ): but i have work.. no dice-k for me :|

[almostfreeman]

Frank Thomas sucks

you must be a leafs fan

[canabiz]

you must be a leafs fan

Right now Frank Thomas is not hitting nor producing. He is hitting a buck 90 for the season and hits .154 in the last 7 games

Frank always starts off slow though so I am hoping he will rebound nicely and put in some good work for us, especially in light of the contract he signed this off-season.

[skyblue12]

Right now Frank Thomas is not hitting nor producing. He is hitting a buck 90 for the season and hits .154 in the last 7 games

Frank always starts off slow though so I am hoping he will rebound nicely and put in some good work for us, especially in light of the contract he signed this off-season.

he's a veteran hitter.. i'm sure he's gone through slumps like these many times in his great career. although many can argue that it's different now, since he's much older and because of all the injuries he's had, i guess we'll just have to wait and see (at least 40-50 games into the season before we can judge him)

right now i wouldn't worry about frank thomas.. i'd worry about our starting pitching and our defense, which hasn't been spectacular. i don't think scoring runs are a problem right now.

[McMurphy]

BJ Ryan placed on 15 day DL with elbow problems. To see Dr. Andrews on Monday OH oH ....... http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/article.jsp?content=20070415_104539_592

[skyblue12]

BJ Ryan placed on 15 day DL with elbow problems. To see Dr. Andrews on Monday OH oH ....... http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/article.jsp?content=20070415_104539_592

wow.. he blew two saves this season but that doesn't mean get injured :evil:

great.. now both reed and bj are on the 15 day dl ): what next?

[xopt1js]

wow.. he blew two saves this season but that doesn't mean get injured :evil:

great.. now both reed and bj are on the 15 day dl ): what next?

Dare I say Troy?

[kevin01]

So take out Zambrano and Ryan according to you? Great.. now our bull-pen really looks good! /sarcasm.

We don't have anybody else right now, our bullpen maybe rushed in there but with League out and Speier+Schoenweis gone.. we got nobody else!

Janssen can't pitch every game...

You tell me what you would rather want... BJ and Zambrano for 2 months, or BJ and Zambrano for 8 months. BJ is here for another 3 years after this, no need to mess up his arm for the next three.

[almostfreeman]

So take out Zambrano and Ryan according to you? Great.. now our bull-pen really looks good! /sarcasm.

We don't have anybody else right now, our bullpen maybe rushed in there but with League out and Speier+Schoenweis gone.. we got nobody else!

Janssen can't pitch every game...

Doesn't look bad to me :confused: ... stats on the rest to date

Scott Downs ERA 0.00 WHIP 1.29 BAA .125
Jason Frasor ERA 1.50 WHIP 0.83 BAA .143
Jeremy Accardo ERA 0.00 WHIP 1.38 BAA .188
Shaun Marcum ERA 3.86 WHIP 1.29 BAA .222

[canabiz]

Towers is pitching a gem today

Good timing too because it would be crazy if the Jays has to use the 'pen early

[kevin01]

Towers was great today, and marcum did a good job for the save.

[asot24]

Ryan, Glaus, Johnson all out. :(
Towers does great job....

Thomas got double and scored winning run. Does he suck still?


(lol @ saying someone sucks after 11 games of a 162 game season)

[skyblue12]

went to the game today..

aside from the first inning, towers pitched great (even though the first run wasn't even his fault.. it was a bad throw by zaun)

pretty disappointed that there were no runs and that the game ended so fast, but the jays won and i got myself an aaron hill jersey :cheesygri

towers got a standing o after he left in the 8th, and deservedly so.

pretty surprised that marcum came out for the save in the 9th, i expected (and heard) that frasor would take BJ's place as closer.

nevertheless, great game (and i saw quite a few tigers fans around too) and go jays go!

[nfnx]

BJ BLEW IT! he looks bad this year, no dominating flare like before... but i hope its cause of his injury and he shakes out of it...

good game today towers was awesome? no freakin way hahah

[skyblue12]

BJ BLEW IT! he looks bad this year, no dominating flare like before... but i hope its cause of his injury and he shakes out of it...

good game today towers was awesome? no freakin way hahah

yeah towers was awesome.. :lol:

when was the last time you saw him get a standing ovation, and see him tip his cap to the crowd? :lol:

[SoGood]

funny bluejays ad was banned.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/v5/content/video/general/0403c-jays-pillow.html

for those who haven't seen it yet

does anybody know if there are new bluejays commercials??

ex. like last season there was VW with the hide and seek, glaus & pinata(SP) and halladay with the bee hive?

[skyblue12]

funny bluejays ad was banned.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/v5/content/video/general/0403c-jays-pillow.html

for those who haven't seen it yet

does anybody know if there are new bluejays commercials??

ex. like last season there was VW with the hide and seek, glaus & pinata(SP) and halladay with the bee hive?

LOL that's hilarious.

nope, i don't even see the ones that were on last year now, which imo were the best :lol: had me laughing every time, especially the troy glaus pinata one

[gman]

Well, Frank Thomas swings a pillow to a small kid and knocks him off the bed is not really nice. I saw that one just one night before it was banned. I said WTF at that moment when I saw the ad.

There is new ad that AJ threw his garbage bag to the garbage truck worker. That is not nice either. Just because he missed the garbage truck, he threw the garbage bag to the head of a worker???

[skyblue12]

Well, Frank Thomas swings a pillow to a small kid and knocks him off the bed is not really nice. I saw that one just one night before it was banned. I said WTF at that moment when I saw the ad.

There is new ad that AJ threw his garbage bag to the garbage truck worker.

here's the link to the AJ one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTHksQR1uwk

and here's another new one.. lyle overbay :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_Kj9xRu0Gg

the overbay one is kinda gay though.

[Kieraw]

What happened at the home opener? I heard there were many fights including this one...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9rUdZVjE7M

[skyblue12]

What happened at the home opener? I heard there were many fights including this one...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9rUdZVjE7M

o.O didn't hear anything about this..

oh btw for all those who watched the game on TV: not sure if they broadcasted this but the first johnny mac double that went fair down the foul line and rolled into foul territory, some people AGAIN were stupid enough to reach for the ball and grab it and johnny mac was given 2nd base. not sure if they got ejected from the game.. i was sitting at the other side of the stadium

[skyblue12]

did anybody notice that gregg zaun wears one glove when he bats now?

[kevin01]

Well, Frank Thomas swings a pillow to a small kid and knocks him off the bed is not really nice. I saw that one just one night before it was banned. I said WTF at that moment when I saw the ad.

There is new ad that AJ threw his garbage bag to the garbage truck worker. That is not nice either. Just because he missed the garbage truck, he threw the garbage bag to the head of a worker???

Oh no, its not nice, the world is coming to an end.... ITS A JOKE take it easy. The commercials have done what they were supposed to though, create a buzz about the blue jays in T.O, maybe not this kind of buzz but people are talking.

And the garbage man in the commercial looks as if he purposly does not stop for AJ, so AJ just throws it at him for being an assho*e.

[skyblue12]

Oh no, its not nice, the world is coming to an end.... ITS A JOKE take it easy. The commercials have done what they were supposed to though, create a buzz about the blue jays in T.O, maybe not this kind of buzz but people are talking.

And the garbage man in the commercial looks as if he purposly does not stop for AJ, so AJ just throws it at him for being an assho*e.

i hope more people start coming to the jays games.. sunday afternoon and still only around 21,000-ish people.. which isn't bad but isn't that great either..

[Madchester]

Well, Frank Thomas swings a pillow to a small kid and knocks him off the bed is not really nice. I saw that one just one night before it was banned. I said WTF at that moment when I saw the ad.

There is new ad that AJ threw his garbage bag to the garbage truck worker. That is not nice either. Just because he missed the garbage truck, he threw the garbage bag to the head of a worker???

The ads are not offensive; the point of the ads is that the Jays get so caught up with their baseball routine that it becomes detrimental in real life. They have an off-beat sense of humour that's no more harmful than the cartoon violence children are exposed to on a daily basis. Seriously, it's just a pillow fight.

I'm still surprised that the Television Bureau of Canada needed to complain... Last yr Roy Halladay threw a rock at a hornet's nest and gave a fist pump when those kids were being stung! :lol:

I don't want to go back to the stupid 2004 era ads depicting Chris Woodward in a canoe or the '05 ads those annoying marionettes.

[gman]

The ads are not offensive; the point of the ads is that the Jays get so caught up with their baseball routine that it becomes detrimental in real life. They have an off-beat sense of humour that's no more harmful than the cartoon violence children are exposed to on a daily basis. Seriously, it's just a pillow fight.

I'm still surprised that the Television Bureau of Canada needed to complain... Last yr Roy Halladay threw a rock at a hornet's nest and gave a fist pump when those kids were being stung! :lol:

I don't want to go back to the stupid 2004 era ads depicting Chris Woodward in a canoe or the '05 ads those annoying marionettes.

A normal pillow fight does not knock off a small kid off the bed. If it is not a small kid but a teenager be knocked off, I am okay with that. You don't normally see ad doing harm to small kids.

The 'kid' who got stung by bees are not small kids.

Also, I believe they did not direct their baseball movement (throwing the ball, swing the bat) to a human being directly last season. This season, there are at least 2 ad doing that to a human being.

[gman]

Oh no, its not nice, the world is coming to an end.... ITS A JOKE take it easy. The commercials have done what they were supposed to though, create a buzz about the blue jays in T.O, maybe not this kind of buzz but people are talking.

And the garbage man in the commercial looks as if he purposly does not stop for AJ, so AJ just throws it at him for being an assho*e.

The garbage man was not the one who was driving the truck. He might have a face of a jerk but what did he do wrong? The only thing I see he did wrong was his jerk smile but what AJ did was an assault.

BTW, did you guys notice AJ has a round scar in his right leg?

[flyingdutchman]

Bring on Dice-K....what Im i saying, its Boston. They always kill us

[kevin01]

The garbage man was not the one who was driving the truck. He might have a face of a jerk but what did he do wrong? The only thing I see he did wrong was his jerk smile but what AJ did was an assault.

BTW, did you guys notice AJ has a round scar in his right leg?

They couldnt add that part in the commercial because of the same laws that banned the Thomas commercial. The garbage man got off the truck and beat the hell out of burnett. loll

And yea, youre making it look realistic. The garbage man did have a jerk face and smile, and that is what the directors were trying to make it look like. Like he just didnt get off and pick it up, when you watch a commercial youre not going to factor in that the driver didnt stop or burnett was too late. When you watch it, you know that the garbage man didnt stop on purpose.

[gman]

They couldnt add that part in the commercial because of the same laws that banned the Thomas commercial. The garbage man got off the truck and beat the hell out of burnett. loll

And yea, youre making it look realistic. The garbage man did have a jerk face and smile, and that is what the directors were trying to make it look like. Like he just didnt get off and pick it up, when you watch a commercial youre not going to factor in that the driver didnt stop or burnett was too late. When you watch it, you know that the garbage man didnt stop on purpose.

May be my brain just runs a bit faster. I did notice the garage man was not controlling the truck and I did notice AJ was late. I also did notice throwing the garage to the head of the garbage was uncall for the first time I saw the ad.

[nano]

AJ doesnt have a scar its a tattoo

[asot24]

HAHAHAH at anyone being offended by those Jays ads.

[Ogata]

HAHAHAH at anyone being offended by those Jays ads.

+1

To make such a big deal out of Thomas hitting a kid with a pillow and having CP24 interview biased people about it. Clearly its just about the money and the huge bully cooperations and their guidelines.

[NDman]

Doesn't really matter. The ad campaigns has been very disappointing the past 3 years. My favourite was still the Baseball North series about 4-5 years ago.

[ggs]

frank's got a big goofy grin on his face - that aint assault brotha!

[Spray]

haha the new Jays ad's are great...I love the overbay one, and I cant believe they changed the Frank Thomas ad.

[wolvie11]

overbay one is great lol.. y didnt they match up Dice K against Tomo? :lol:

[jling6]

TORONTO (CP) -- Toronto Blue Jays left-fielder Reed Johnson will undergo surgery Tuesday to repair a herniated disc in his lower back.

The leadoff hitter, who will have the operation in Florida, was placed on the 15-day disabled list Friday. The team hopes he will be back in the lineup sometime in July.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/article.jsp?content=20070416_141900_4568

I guess we'll be seeing alot of Matt Stairs/Adam Lind

[skyblue12]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/article.jsp?content=20070416_141900_4568

I guess we'll be seeing alot of Matt Stairs/Adam Lind

phew.. and i was thinking of getting a johnson jersey yesterday too

injuries galore for the jays again..

[kevin01]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/article.jsp?content=20070416_141900_4568

I guess we'll be seeing alot of Matt Stairs/Adam Lind

This could be a blessing in disguise. Lind has been batting great ever since he was called up, even going back to september. He can break out and start producing as good as johnson.

Rios
Hill
Wells
Thomas
Glaus
Overbay
Zaun
Lind
Clayton

With what the players have done so far this season, i think this line up looks better than the one that the jays started the season with.

[skyblue12]

This could be a blessing in disguise. Lind has been batting great ever since he was called up, even going back to september. He can break out and start producing as good as johnson.

Rios
Hill
Wells
Thomas
Glaus
Overbay
Zaun
Lind
Clayton

With what the players have done so far this season, i think this line up looks better than the one that the jays started the season with.

when is glaus going to be back anyway?

and yeah i agree.. that lineup looks pretty good, but i'd still rather have johnson lead off instead of rios.

[YnD]

Towers + Ohka a Success = Blue Jays in Post Season

[skyblue12]

Towers + Ohka a Success = Blue Jays in Post Season

i think towers will be pretty good this season. had an excellent outing yesterday. not so sure about ohka though

[spike-spiegel]

This could be a blessing in disguise. Lind has been batting great ever since he was called up, even going back to september. He can break out and start producing as good as johnson.

Rios
Hill
Wells
Thomas
Glaus
Overbay
Zaun
Lind
Clayton

With what the players have done so far this season, i think this line up looks better than the one that the jays started the season with.


Rios is better at lead off, Reed is better at two-hole. Rios needs some protection instead of staying at the bottom of the order. Now with Hill swinging a hot bat, the Overbay in two-hole project should be over. It didn't work out too well. But if Glaus goes down on DL, then we'll be seeing Mac and Smith platoon.

[NDman]

It's looking like Mighty Troy will be officially placed on the DL in a day or 2 according to rotoworld. Yikes.

Jays had a good chance to keep up with the Yanks struggling. Now BoSox just steam-rolled the Angels and it could be a very ugly series

[skyblue12]

It's looking like Mighty Troy will be officially placed on the DL in a day or 2 according to rotoworld. Yikes.

Jays had a good chance to keep up with the Yanks struggling. Now BoSox just steam-rolled the Angels and it could be a very ugly series

we'll just have to see tomorrow.. i think tomorrow's game is pretty important in setting the tone for this series. if we don't do good tomorrow, i don't think this series will be pretty. if we win tomorrow, it'll look a BIT better but it's still going to be TOUGH. at least we're at home, hopefully the crowd can rev up the team a bit.

[Madchester]

+1

To make such a big deal out of Thomas hitting a kid with a pillow and having CP24 interview biased people about it. Clearly its just about the money and the huge bully cooperations and their guidelines.



The TBC is just being insanely nitpicky. It's weird how they can condone someone destroying a child's pinata or crashing a wedding but not a pillow fight.

I believe that they were also complaining about the V-Dub spot last season, b/c he wasn't looking both ways while crossing the street while playing hide and seek. They might as well criticize VW's dumpster diving, b/c that's also a bad example to kids! :idea:

[skyblue12]

The TBC is just being insanely nitpicky. It's weird how they can condone someone destroying a child's pinata or crashing a wedding but not a pillow fight.

I believe that they were also complaining about the V-Dub spot last season, b/c he wasn't looking both ways while crossing the street while playing hide and seek. They might as well criticize VW's dumpster diving, b/c that's also a bad example to kids! :idea:

LOL wow i love the v-dub commercial criticism.. didn't look both ways before crossing the street? who the heck even pays attention to that? -_-

[will games]

Toronto Blue Jays closer B.J. Ryan will miss four-to-six weeks with an elbow sprain while all-star third baseman Troy Glaus will be placed on the disabled list Tuesday. Left-fielder Reed Johnson also opted for back surgery to repair the herniated disc in his lower back on a busy day of sorting out injuries for the club. Johnson will have the procedure done Tuesday in St. Petersburg, Fla., and will be out until July.

[B40]

AJ doesnt have a scar its a tattoo

HAHAHAH at anyone being offended by those Jays ads.

+1

gman you need to chill if you're getting that worked up over those commercials...

[asot24]

Yay for the Jays


Reed Johnson out for 4 months+
BJ Ryan out for 6 weeks+
Troy Glaus out for 2 weeks+
Brandon League out for 4 weeks+

[wesleyw]

Yay for the Jays


Reed Johnson out for 4 months+
BJ Ryan out for 6 weeks+
Troy Glaus out for 2 weeks+
Brandon League out for 4 weeks+

Talk about the injury bug biting and biting hard...

[skyblue12]

Talk about the injury bug biting and biting hard...

this is more like an epidemic..

[almostfreeman]

good thing the yanks are having injury problems of their own

[TechRock]

man jays ticket are expensive...service charge and pick up there cost 4 dollars like whats up

[asot24]

45$ to see a great baseball team play or 450$ to see a mediocre hockey team?
HMMMM..

[Ogata]

man jays ticket are expensive...service charge and pick up there cost 4 dollars like whats up

The service charge is to pay the salaries for those people at (416)341-1234. Jays tickets are expensive?!?! Have you been to leafs/raptor's games? Bleacher seats alone are 80 bucks and for 80 bucks at the Rogers Centre, you can get a field level seat.

[Tofu Drift Shinji]

Going to see Dice-K tomorrow night, and I'm stoked!

Hopefully, Gus will keep it close and the Jays will squeek out a victory.

[kevin01]

Frank Thomas needs to pick it up, Lind needs to keep doing what he is doing. Anyone think Thigpin or Snider will be called up?

[canabiz]

With Troy on the DL now, it's really time for the Big Hurt to shine

I do believe one of the reasons he's coming back for another season is to get to the 500 HR plateau. A few more during the next stretch wouldn't hurt anyone!

[spike-spiegel]

Frank Thomas needs to pick it up, Lind needs to keep doing what he is doing. Anyone think Thigpin or Snider will be called up?

Why would either Thigpen or Snider be called up? Thigpen is a catcher, Jays don't need another one right now. Snider, he's at least 2-3 years away from being majors ready.

They brought up Ryan Roberts to back Smith and Mac.

[gstrgreg]

the jays are a mess now :|

no true backup at 3rd.. its going to be Jason Smith with Johnny Mac
that position is going to be so weak until Glaus is back

[asot24]

the jays are a mess now :|

no true backup at 3rd.. its going to be Jason Smith with Johnny Mac
that position is going to be so weak until Glaus is back

McDonald drove in winning run last night and he plays better defense than Glaus.
We'll be alright there for 2 weeks.

Be more concerned about BJ Ryan and the closer role.

[actyper]

MacDonald > Glaus defence at 3b???? I dunno about that. I do agree that we'll be ok though. Fraser/Marcum have looked good so far, but yeah long term I dunno.

[Ogata]

MacDonald > Glaus defence at 3b???? I dunno about that. I do agree that we'll be ok though. Fraser/Marcum have looked good so far, but yeah long term I dunno.

Him and Jason Smith are going to split time for 3B for now. Smith seems alright so far. Frasor seems to be solid and Marcum was abit shaky giving up a grand slam on the mount in Detroit but other than that he's been alright as a reliever. WATCH OUT FOR PIZZA THROWING FROM RED SOX FANS!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsdes0QI4W4

[Rocketo]

haha i saw that clip that was SO not necessary

[flyingdutchman]

He was a Boston fan too....what was the point of throwing that perfectly good slice??

[skyblue12]

dice-k not looking good in the 4th :lol:

gives up an infield hit, walks thomas on 4 pitches, gives up an rbi hit to overbay, walks hill to load up the bases, walks zaun to walk in another run

[skyblue12]

wow.. really tight game

still 2-1 in the bottom of the 8th

[will games]

Nice WIN 2nite.:)

[gstrgreg]

Jays win - Chacin was soliddd

Dice-K was siiick - he had some dirty pitches
.. tho control problems in the 4th

[skyblue12]

is it just me.. or is dice-k's delivery really weird (how he begins his step)

jays win on 3 hits.. great pitching today

[jerryhung]

Blue Jays 1, Dice-K 0

Whew~

[skyblue12]

Blue Jays 1, Dice-K 0

Whew~

this game was an important game for the jays.. red sox have been on a mini-streak and dice-k looked like he was going to shut out the jays. luckily we got 2 runs and chacin was great as well.

[asot24]

great win haha

[gstrgreg]

so.. apparently the gyroball is just a modified change-up

[skyblue12]

so.. apparently the gyroball is just a modified change-up

i thought it was a modified slider :S

[skyblue12]

what i don't get is how varitek does it.

dice-k has SIX friggen pitches.. that's insane. how does varitek call it? :lol:

[gstrgreg]

what i don't get is how varitek does it.

dice-k has SIX friggen pitches.. that's insane. how does varitek call it? :lol:

we know he calls a fastball with TWO fingers
(which is wack already)

that means he calls the gyroball with ONE finger :cheesygri

[skyblue12]

we know he calls a fastball with TWO fingers
(which is wack already)

that means he calls the gyroball with ONE finger :cheesygri

gg. LOL

i swear.. pitchers that have 4 pitches already have crazy arse signs..

varitek might have to start using other body parts to signal for a pitch and location :lol:

[B40]

is it just me.. or is dice-k's delivery really weird (how he begins his step)

jays win on 3 hits.. great pitching today

It's not weird, it's just different.. Nomo's is even weirder..

I like his delivery, he sort of flexes and poses his ass before throwing.

[skyblue12]

It's not weird, it's just different.. Nomo's is even weirder..

I like his delivery, he sort of flexes and poses his ass before throwing.

-_- heh. funny.. i never noticed that............ i wonder why..

[TechRock]

Dice K was sick...also the new Jays shop is also sick...need to save some money to buy some of those hats

[Tofu Drift Shinji]

Really solid game for Dice-K except the bases loaded walk--what a way to lose the game. He really shut the Jays bats down.

Solid performance from Chacin. Pretty nice 5-3 DP, and Hill played the Ortiz shift pretty nicely.

[wesleyw]

Great pitcher's duel...seems like we've been getting quite a bit of them lately.
Nice to see our pitchers step up and win some games for us while our offence is battling injuries and slumps.
Dice-K was pretty dominant except for the jam he worked himself into in the 4th. Also great to see the Dome almost packed for a game again.

[Madchester]

Was at the game tonite, and both pitchers were on fire. I got in just in time to see th Sox homer one off Windows restaurant.

There was a crazy fan in our section... he got the whole building to do the Wave.. :D

[Rocketo]

Frank Thomas is a piece of trash...and who needs Hinske when you got Royce "the rallykiller" Clayton

[NDman]

Frank Thomas is a piece of trash...and who needs Hinske when you got Royce "the rallykiller" Clayton

How we all forgot about Alex Gonzalez already. I can't remember a bigger rally killer than him

[ggs]

Was at the game tonite, and both pitchers were on fire. I got in just in time to see th Sox homer one off Windows restaurant.

There was a crazy fan in our section... he got the whole building to do the Wave.. :D

crazy is right. dudes need to put their shirts back on.

rogers center is a pretty quiet building it seems, our fans never seem to get too hostile towards opposing players.

[jerryhung]

Frank Thomas is a piece of trash

I agree, he looks even worse with Dice-K
Did he hit the ball at all?

Alex Rios and Vernon Wells at least touched the balls (even though Rios had nothing but flyouts)

I really hope we didn't overspend on him :(

[NDman]

I agree, he looks even worse with Dice-K
Did he hit the ball at all?

On the bright side, he's cheaper, and better than Sheffield still (at the moment)!!

[Rocketo]

On the bright side, he's cheaper, and better than Sheffield still (at the moment)!!

everytime he makes contact he has a grimace on his fat face like it's such a struggle for him to swing the bat around...UGLIEST swing in major league baseball to think he's on the verge of 500 homers still amazes me

[asot24]

lol @ people crying about Thomas


like Mike Wilner said on the post game show...

write down that Thomas sucks now then come back in 140 games and see him have 38 homeruns, 110 rbi's and a .270 batting average.

He was off to a slow start last year and look what happened.

11 games into a 162 season and you're already trolling him lol

[Spray]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. These umpires are STRUGGLING to call strikes on Thomas. That first strike out, 2/3 were way outside of the zone. All year so far i'm seeing umps call strikes on him a good 3 inches off the plate outside.

[skyblue12]

lol @ people crying about Thomas


like Mike Wilner said on the post game show...

write down that Thomas sucks now then come back in 140 games and see him have 38 homeruns, 110 rbi's and a .270 batting average.

He was off to a slow start last year and look what happened.

11 games into a 162 season and you're already trolling him lol

haha that's exactly what i was saying when it was like.. 7 games into the season :lol: at least me and you will have a good laugh about it looking back at all those guys who trolled frank thomas earlier in the season XD

[spike-spiegel]

Thomas in SPRING TRAINING himself said it takes about 100 plate appearances for him to get comfortable and the power stroke to come. He's at about 55 right now, so we should see him get going in beginning of May.

[skyblue12]

lol @ people crying about Thomas


like Mike Wilner said on the post game show...

write down that Thomas sucks now then come back in 140 games and see him have 38 homeruns, 110 rbi's and a .270 batting average.

He was off to a slow start last year and look what happened.

11 games into a 162 season and you're already trolling him lol

Thomas in SPRING TRAINING himself said it takes about 100 plate appearances for him to get comfortable and the power stroke to come. He's at about 55 right now, so we should see him get going in beginning of May.

and last year he started getting on fire the second half of the season (though of course i don't want to see him start to get on fire at the half-way mark)

[gordholio]

Strikeouts are great, but when you don't win they mean nothing.
Matsuzaka (sp?) is good, but you gotta win.
Boston sure dumped their load on this guy. Crazy money.

[nano]

i love how everything is giving royce and frank such a hard time when vernon is hitting .245 before tonites game

[asot24]

why the **** would anybody be giving Royce ****ing Clayton a hard time?
Some people are just ******** sometimes. The guy is going to hit .250 PERIOD. Don't expect anything more.

Thomas will come around however.

[skyblue12]

i love how everything is giving royce and frank such a hard time when vernon is hitting .245 before tonites game

exactly. i don't see why nobody's bashing HIM :|

[kevin01]

Dunn, Soriano, Glaus, and a lot of other big hitters went through periods of slumping. Its a 162 game season, you cant be hot for 162 games. Just think of this as a good sign, last time vernon did bad in april he killed it the rest of the way.

Stupid mirabelli

[skyblue12]

oh come on ohka..

where did the no-hitter go?

2 hits off ohka and both of them homers..

[asot24]

3 hits 3 home-runs.

[skyblue12]

3 hits 3 home-runs.

i'd rather have 10 hits no runs ):

[canabiz]

Gotta love that grimace on Frank Thomas' face

If you got time, look up John Henderson on YouTube. He's a defensive player with the Jacksonville Jaguars in the NFL and one of his pre-game routine is to ask somebody to slap or hit him to get the motivation ?!?!

Go figure

[Tofu Drift Shinji]

Like Jamie and Rance were saying, it wasn't terrible start from Ohka. All the mistakes he made, and he didn't make too many of them, the Red Sox capitalized on in a big way.

Furthermore, Wakefield had some late movement on his knucklers, got himself out of a bases loaded jam, and pitched a really solid game.

Tough luck for Tomo tonight, but if he can come out every 5 nights and go 6 innings or more, giving up 3 or less (the fourth run was really Zambrano's doing even though it goes against Tomo), he's going to have a half-decent season as #4 starter. The offense just never gave him a fighting chance tonight.

[Madchester]

Jays have really beaten up Wakefield in the last couple of yrs. Surprised they couldn't follow that trend tonite.

[Spray]

Man that was a nice looking swing by Thomas :P
BAM Home run

For all you Thomas haters here's something to think about:
Thomas OBP: .344
Wells OBP: .270

[nfnx]

what happened to catalenato?

[wesleyw]

what happened to catalenato?

Signed with Texas in the offseason...

[Spray]

And again the bullpen blows it for Halladay...what is that like 10 blown wins in the last 2 years?

[Irb]

Another spoiled win for Doc :mad:

[Rocketo]

yup poor Doc...

[Spray]

Definately safe to hill at first.
Bad call.

[Irb]

Definately safe to hill at first.
Bad call.Too bad Overbay didn't even slide into second. He tried to charge the 2nd baseman like a linebacker totally off the baseline. :lol:

[nfnx]

shoulda left halladay in... damn

[Tofu Drift Shinji]

Wow. A nice outing by Doc really turned ugly quick.

[ggs]

bullpen gets rocked. what else is new jp, you serious about contending for playoffs this year?

[canabiz]

have said it before and will say it again

John Gibbons is the weakest link

[rdtx2002]

bullpen gets rocked. what else is new jp, you serious about contending for playoffs this year?

wow.. the bullpen gets rocked this game... and you bash them already?.. what about the other games were the bullpen shined?

you fans are something else.

[Ogata]

Anyone here have seat 5 on row 5 on aisle 521 on May 8th against the Red Sox? Another friend decided to jump the band wagon right after I bought the tickets for seats 1-4 and seat 5 doesn't seem to be non vacant. I missed today's game due to an exam. THE BULLPEN !?!? NOOOOOOOO! We need BJ Back!

[kevin01]

Gibbons has 30 games left to prove that he can take this team to the playoffs, man hes pathetic.

[flyingdutchman]

We need Justin Spier back!!!

[xopt1js]

Was at the game yesterday, the crowd was in shock after Doc left the game. Hopefully the Jays can pick it up on this road trip, can't afford to be losing games when leading going into the 8th.

[nfnx]

2 blown saves and bullben blew an additional 2 games, jays are a real threat this year, just poor pitching and management are costing us

[nfnx]

actually another questoin, why were fans booing arod last year in NY???

i know hes tearing it up this year, but his numbers last year werent that bad...

[flyingdutchman]

It might be because he wasnt that good in the start of the season or it could be his relationship with Jeter...apparently they are not in good terms!

[skyblue12]

actually another questoin, why were fans booing arod last year in NY???

i know hes tearing it up this year, but his numbers last year werent that bad...

NY fans are always like that.. u make one booboo and they boo you. last year he made quite a few defensive errors, ie. dropping fly balls, overthrowing to 3rd base, not being able to see the ball in foul territory and ending up not getting an easy out.

[spike-spiegel]

2 blown saves and bullben blew an additional 2 games, jays are a real threat this year, just poor pitching and management are costing us

Bullpen has cost Jays three games already. Expect more until BJ returns.

Instead of 8-7, Jays could be 11-4. That would have been awesome. Now let's pray the damage is minimized these next six weeks.

[NDman]

Bullpen has cost Jays three games already. Expect more until BJ returns.


That's not really fair. The Jays had 4 Bs this season, 2 of them actually belong to Ryan, though we can assume it was due to his injury. That said, if it wasn't for the 2 Bs by Ryan, the Jays would have been right in the middle in terms of blow the lead by the bull pen.

Jays pen has an ERA of 3.30 so far, ranked 10th best in all of baseball. But for comparison's sake, Boston, NYY, and Baltimore also have better bullpen ERA than the Jays at the moment, while TB is the worst in baseball

[flyingdutchman]

Frank Thomas better do something today against those Oreos....I mean Orioles!

[spike-spiegel]

That's not really fair. The Jays had 4 Bs this season, 2 of them actually belong to Ryan, though we can assume it was due to his injury. That said, if it wasn't for the 2 Bs by Ryan, the Jays would have been right in the middle in terms of blow the lead by the bull pen.

Jays pen has an ERA of 3.30 so far, ranked 10th best in all of baseball. But for comparison's sake, Boston, NYY, and Baltimore also have better bullpen ERA than the Jays at the moment, while TB is the worst in baseball

Yeah, I forgot to add that 2 of them were due to BJ being injured. The other two, well every bullpen blows lead sometime. But it was the timely of those losses that is most concerning.

Bullpen looks fine so far. It will be good too when Ryan and when/if League returns. Until then, hold on.

[kevin01]

lol i just dont want the jays pen blowing up like clevelands last year... they only converted on 24 of 47 save chances lol, or i think it was that number.

[jerryhung]

I wonder how Marcum feels now
blowing the leads 2 nights in a row :(

[canabiz]

Didn't quite expect the BP to be in such a precarious situation this early :-(

[canabiz]

Back to .500 ball boys

Would like the offense to kick things up a notch as well. I know Troy and Reed are out but we have other guys who can mash.

[EZman]

>:(

[Tofu Drift Shinji]

Another decent start... another loss :S

[frugalman]

OMG. goodnight.

[asot24]

5 blown saves so far. What a great team.

Why the **** is Gibbons putting in Marcum again when he blew the game yesterday?

[flyingdutchman]

:mad:

[Tofu Drift Shinji]

Why the **** is Gibbons putting in Marcum again when he blew the game yesterday?

Relievers have to have short term memories. Marcum is still a young pitcher trying to build his confidence pitching in the bigs. He deserved a chance to redeem himself--he couldn't tonight--but that doesn't mean Gibby should hold it against him for blowing the previous game.

Unless the Jays have it in their future plans to get rid of Marcum altogether, they can't let their young pitchers lose confidence in their stuff after a couple of losses. Yes, they didn't perform, but IMO, Gibby has to keep riding them till they learn how to rise to the occasion. There is no better time to learn from mistakes than early in the season.

[jerryhung]

Rivera blew a big lead tonight too

In comparion, we weren't THAT bad

[asot24]

Relievers have to have short term memories. Marcum is still a young pitcher trying to build his confidence pitching in the bigs. He deserved a chance to redeem himself--he couldn't tonight--but that doesn't mean Gibby should hold it against him for blowing the previous game.

Unless the Jays have it in their future plans to get rid of Marcum altogether, they can't let their young pitchers lose confidence in their stuff after a couple of losses. Yes, they didn't perform, but IMO, Gibby has to keep riding them till they learn how to rise to the occasion. There is no better time to learn from mistakes than early in the season.

Should have brought in Janssen. Sorry.

[flyingdutchman]

Why is Okha still starting for us when we have John Thompson and Victor Zambrano???

[canabiz]

Why is Okha still starting for us when we have John Thompson and Victor Zambrano???

Thompson had a poor spring training and I think they found out there was some problems with his arms. Zambrano is still recovering from his injuries if I remember correctly ?

So basically that spot in the rotation was open when training camp started and Ohka won it. He hasn't pitched that bad and it would be nice for the offense to start a few more runs to support the pitchers.

[skyblue12]

5 blown saves so far. What a great team.

Why the **** is Gibbons putting in Marcum again when he blew the game yesterday?

gibby can't sit players just because of one bad outing. if that happened, we might have to trot out 2 pitchers every day cause half of our bullpen blew leads this past week. young players such as marcum need to learn to forget about bad games, even if it was the night before, and try to work through it. that's how they learn and develop

[canabiz]

Another day, another loss :-(

Where the fck is the offense ? Towers wasn't helping his own cause tonight but 5 runs is not a mountain to climb. This is disgusting man

[Tofu Drift Shinji]

Let's hope they can rally around Gus tomorrow afternoon.

[flyingdutchman]

WOW....Hill's hot hand suddenly got cold...no one is producing anything...this new guy Lind is actually good!

[asot24]

gibby can't sit players just because of one bad outing. if that happened, we might have to trot out 2 pitchers every day cause half of our bullpen blew leads this past week. young players such as marcum need to learn to forget about bad games, even if it was the night before, and try to work through it. that's how they learn and develop

So sending him out the next night tired to blow other game is what helps him develop? Gimme a ****ing break. We have 6 other bull-pen pitchers for a reason.

[gstrgreg]

So sending him out the next night tired to blow other game is what helps him develop? Gimme a ****ing break. We have 6 other bull-pen pitchers for a reason.


wow chill man, its just one (two) game(s). There is really no point to "bench" someone unless they are tired - you are looking to develop a mentality moreso than pitching skill.

sending a pitcher out there the GAME AFTER he blew a save.. this tells him that the manager has confidence in him. the worst thing you can have is a pitcher who has lost all confidence (ie. Towers last season).

guys like marcum and janssen.. they need to see more regular time in order to be effective. pitchers always say that it is important to forget what happened in their last outing.

[skyblue12]

wow chill man, its just one (two) game(s). There is really no point to "bench" someone unless they are tired - you are looking to develop a mentality moreso than pitching skill.

sending a pitcher out there the GAME AFTER he blew a save.. this tells him that the manager has confidence in him. the worst thing you can have is a pitcher who has lost all confidence (ie. Towers last season).

guys like marcum and janssen.. they need to see more regular time in order to be effective. pitchers always say that it is important to forget what happened in their last outing.

exactly. plus, it's better to send those pitchers out more often even after they blow a lead the previous game so they can build confidence early on in the season, rather than do it later on in the season when every game is important (not saying that the games we play now aren't of course)

if you were the NYY, and mariano rivera blew two saves consecutively, don't you think joe torre would still trot rivera out for the save in the third game? sometimes young pitchers are easily rattled by a bad outing.. if the manager sends him out again the next day, it shows that the manager has confidence in the pitcher that he'll do a better job (or that he's capable of doing a better job). if you always sit young pitchers after a bad outing, they are never going to develop confidence. pitchers need to learn how to forget about it the day after they have the bad outing, you can't have them sit in the bullpen thinking about how they blew the lead for a couple of days.

[almostfreeman]

Why is Okha still starting for us when we have John Thompson and Victor Zambrano???

Thompson was released, nobody wanted him. JP's $500,000 gamble lost.

[skyblue12]

Thompson was released, nobody wanted him. JP's $500,000 gamble lost.

i thought he was still in the minor leagues? :S

[almostfreeman]

i thought he was still in the minor leagues? :S

he didn't have to go, he either had to be traded before the season or released

[skyblue12]

he didn't have to go, he either had to be traded before the season or released

ahhh.. cause i heard on bluejays.ca that he got released, then the other day i heard that he was pitching in the minors so i was like.. huh? :confused:

thanks for clearing that up

cmon jays.. let's snap out of this mini-slide

[canabiz]

ahhh.. cause i heard on bluejays.ca that he got released, then the other day i heard that he was pitching in the minors so i was like.. huh? :confused:

thanks for clearing that up

cmon jays.. let's snap out of this mini-slide

Need the core of the line-ups (Alex Rios, Vernon Wells, Frank Thomas, Lyle Overbay) to start hitting and producing RBIs

I don't know about you but it's not a good thing when bits and pieces players (no disrespect intended but they are known more for their gloves than their bats) like Johnny Mac and Clayton and the kid Lind are leading the teams in hitting

[skyblue12]

jays need to score some runs.. they were averaging 7 runs a game when the season began (7-8 games in) and now they've been averaging what.. like around 2 runs a game?

[skyblue12]

aaron hill HR!

[spike-spiegel]

Thompson was released, nobody wanted him. JP's $500,000 gamble lost.

he didn't have to go, he either had to be traded before the season or released


As I mentioned before, Thomson is still in the minors. He did not get released. He was injured, and Jays said they will give him a chance to recover and pitch again. He accepted. He might prove useful if he can pitch well.

[skyblue12]

3-1 o's..

[jerryhung]

I think we will lose again tonight :(

[canabiz]

Chacin is getting unravelled :-(

C'mon Jays if you can't score against Steve Trachsel, you need to hang your head in shame.

We were supposed to compete with the Yanks the Red Soxes of the world. It's a bloody shame, it really is. All the injuries don't help of course.

[skyblue12]

6-1.. woohoo

[Ogata]

Chacin is getting unravelled :-(

C'mon Jays if you can't score against Steve Trachsel, you need to hang your head in shame.

We were supposed to compete with the Yanks the Red Soxes of the world. It's a bloody shame, it really is. All the injuries don't help of course.

Clearly this is because we are lacking a solid leadoff hitting in the name of Reed Johnson, if we don't hae that sparkplug to ignite the lineup then the rest will follow and slump. I don't know what it will be like tomorrow. *shrugs*

[skyblue12]

jays lose again.. 7-3 :|

[asot24]

Clearly this is because we are lacking a solid leadoff hitting in the name of Reed Johnson, if we don't hae that sparkplug to ignite the lineup then the rest will follow and slump. I don't know what it will be like tomorrow. *shrugs*

Yeah because with Reed Johnson in our line-up, the Orioles wouldn't have scored 7 runs in this game. /sarcasm

Our offense may be struggling but out pitching sucks. Period.

[Corizzle]

Anyone know where to get a good Jays wallpaper? The ones on the Jays website are just the logo, I'm looking for one that has some players on it

[Rocketo]

Yeah because with Reed Johnson in our line-up, the Orioles wouldn't have scored 7 runs in this game. /sarcasm

Our offense may be struggling but out pitching sucks. Period.

not just the pitching...we're avging like 3 runs per game...(i don't have the statistical data for this but it seems that way)..that's not enough when you are a power hitting team...no production from vernon, frank or lyle...altho glaus is a strike out machine the jays miss his bat...it makes the line up less threatening when he's not in and makes the pitcher not think there are 3 potential 30 homerun hitters...no glaus...no protection for vernon and frank

[NDman]

not just the pitching...we're avging like 3 runs per game...(i don't have the statistical data for this but it seems that way)..that's not enough when you are a power hitting team...


It's just over 4.5 runs per game, right in the middle of the pack, with the Yankees leading the way with almost 6.4 RPG.


no production from vernon, frank or lyle...altho glaus is a strike out machine the jays miss his bat...it makes the line up less threatening when he's not in and makes the pitcher not think there are 3 potential 30 homerun hitters...no glaus...no protection for vernon and frank

Glaus is, and has always been a strike-out machine. He's a prototypic power guy with relatively low average. Nothing has changed, and the Jays got him for exact what he is. No surprise there. Hopefully he'll be back as planned (this weekend). Right now the big bats aren't really contributing and that's the problem. But they are too good of hitters to be written off. I think they'll snap out of it and let's hope they'll do it at the same time.

[flyingdutchman]

OMG!! 5 in a row!!!
Dont pull a leafs and lose 7!

We got to beat Boston in this series (even though they were crazy yesterday with 4 home runs)

[will games]

Anyone know where to get a good Jays wallpaper? The ones on the Jays website are just the logo, I'm looking for one that has some players on it

My buddy made me a sweet Troy Glaus one...if you want it PM Me:)

[skyblue12]

jays are off to a good start.. let's keep it up

[canabiz]

It's gonna be a loong season fellas *sigh*, certainly not what I expected to transpire so far

[skyblue12]

the injuries aren't exactly helping..

look at our lineup tonight:

rios
stairs
wells
thomas
zaun
hill
phillips
clayton
mcdonald

not exactly the run producing lineup that we expected at the beginning of the season. imo between stairs / phillips / clayton and mcdonald, only 2 of them should be in the lineup at the most.. (i guess i can't really "bash" mcdonald cause he's hitting .450+ with a .500ish OBP and .600+ slugging, of course with limited playing time as well) but this lineup just doesn't give you the impression that they're going to score many runs in a game.

[jerryhung]

someone please take Rios off leadoff spot
Johnny Mac and Clayton (#8, 9) are hitting better than him
Even Jason Phillips

FINALLY, Frank Thomas hit a 2-run HR
4-2 is not enough lead against Red Sox

[Tofu Drift Shinji]

Not a bad outing by Ohka; too bad he couldn't go six. At least he came out of the game with the lead.

Let's hope the bullpen can close the door.

[skyblue12]

5-3.. bottom of the 9th is going to be tough.

[skyblue12]

wooo Aaron Hill Dingerrrrr

[skyblue12]

JAYS WIN!

johnny mac for gold glove :cheesygri

[kevin01]

Aaron Hill should bat lead-off, rios was doing just fine at 6th.

Anyone know when Glaus will be off the DL, hope this injury doesnt go too far.

[skyblue12]

Aaron Hill should bat lead-off, rios was doing just fine at 6th.

Anyone know when Glaus will be off the DL, hope this injury doesnt go too far.

glaus joined the 15-day DL list on april 16th, so i'm assuming (and hoping) that he'll be back in less than 2 weeks

[Tofu Drift Shinji]

Double digits in the H column; that's gotta be a relief.