Why are mac laptops so expensive?

[mr.wiz0rd]

I'm interested in buying a mac laptop, but it seems that the prices are about 300-500 more expensive than a comparable windows system. why is that?

feature for feature, the macs even sometimes fall short in the hard drive.

for $2000 or $2800, there are plenty of high-end windows based laptops.

is it because the macs offer more free programs?

[bembol]

Apple name for one, Design/Build Quality and the OSX - Tiger?

Apple/Mac have always carried a Premium price. One of the reasons why I didn't look into them until they introduced Mac Mini, which was considered the "cheapest" Mac to hit the market. A year later I own Intel Core Duo's 20" iMac and Mac Book!

[Jucius Maximus]

Main reason: Higher profit margin.

There's a whole "perceived superior quality" mystique they like to maintain, much like it used to be with Sony products.

As I understand it, Apple notebooks are made by ASUS and have pretty much the same hardware inside as PC laptops.

I would pay for the higher profit margin because I find that OS X is really better for getting my work done (maybe applicable to your work too) and that the overall OS and environment is extremely elegant. You can forget that it's a "computer" and just get on with your work.

(Typed on my iBook.)

[BlueX]

-Better built
-Better and stable Operating System (fewer viruses compared to Windows)
-What you pay is what you get

You'll never find a discount price, unless you know someone who works at Apple Computer.

[Aero]

I'm interested in buying a mac laptop, but it seems that the prices are about 300-500 more expensive than a comparable windows system. why is that?

feature for feature, the macs even sometimes fall short in the hard drive.

for $2000 or $2800, there are plenty of high-end windows based laptops.

is it because the macs offer more free programs?

What are you comparing? I mean which mac laptop and which Windows laptop?

[Jucius Maximus]

You'll never find a discount price, unless you know someone who works at Apple Computer.

Watch ThinkSecret (http://www.thinksecret.com/) and wait for upcoming product upgrades. Right after the upgrades, the model that was previously the best / most expensive suddently costs 15% less and is no longer the best.

Honestly I think the "no discounts" policy is the promote the image that apple products are "better" when in reality it is just the same hardware everyone else is running plus a superior OS.

[hybrid.09]

First off, it's a completely different system. It's unix based, so less problems and viruses. The brand, the design, and what's packed into it.

And no, they don't offer "free" software, that's only some stuff.

[ProfessorChaos]

First off, it's a completely different system. It's unix based, so less problems and viruses. The brand, the design, and what's packed into it

except that it is only different on a software level.

[gordholio]

Another reason could be that you don't see Apple clones around.
It seems that Apple is getting all the money and setting the price pretty high as long as people will pay.
Really, if they reduced the prices, more people might consider an Apple and they might make more than a small dent in the market.

[john widow]

I wonder what the mac os is like....I"ve never used it in person.
I find windows great, I never have problems with viruses or slowing down or crashes once you learn to set things up right.

[Gee]

Another reason could be that you don't see Apple clones around.
It seems that Apple is getting all the money and setting the price pretty high as long as people will pay.
Really, if they reduced the prices, more people might consider an Apple and they might make more than a small dent in the market.


This is the only intelligent answer I have seen.

You cannot compare Apples to Oranges (No pun intended). A Windows Machine is a different animal.

I think the main reason is the lack of competition. I agree to a certian extent that their notebooks are better than say a Presario or Pavilion. But as far as quality, ThinkPads are just as good or better.

[Emancipated]

Comes down to brand mostly but it becomes apparently obvious when you see it in person. No other company uses aluminum to clothe their laptops like Apple does. Attention to details such as backlit keyboard on the hardware end; then you have the same attention paid to the software end with OS X. It's finesse and refined.

Macbooks are finally priced reasonably, but it was riduculously overpriced before Intel days.

[Evil Baby]

Comes down to brand mostly but it becomes apparently obvious when you see it in person. No other company uses aluminum to clothe their laptops like Apple does. Attention to details such as backlit keyboard on the hardware end; then you have the same attention paid to the software end with OS X. It's finesse and refined.

Macbooks are finally priced reasonably, but it was riduculously overpriced before Intel days.

Although I very much dislike OSX, you can't argue with how the laptops look. I'm not a fan of the new keyboards but the outter shell is nice, especially the black one. The only thing that comes close in my mind is some of the smaller sony vaio's. It would be a tossup between those two for looks for me. However I've never trusted Soney technology.

I'd still rather have a dell, as their 14inch laptops arn't so ugle you're affraid to be seen with them and they come packed with a lot more power.

[ericssonboi]

If your looking for discounts..
Education or Refurb prices are quite reasonable.. usually a good chunk off the retail price.

A lot of people are selling them in the B/S/T.. just make sure there is warranty left on the system and your good to go

[Octavius]

I bought my iBook about a year ago and although it was more expensive than a comparable PC, I still took a chance and bought it.

I can say that the extra money I paid was worth it. It's not only the OS that I love (although my desktop will always be a PC that I build myself), but it's all the little things that Apple puts time into which make the difference.

The glowing Apple logo on the back of the LCD panel, the compact and practical power adapter which doesn't weigh as much as the laptop (and doubles as a cord organizer as well), the screens are marvelous and I have yet to have my iBook crash or freeze up on me while working.

Of course, everyone has their own preferences, but after buying an iBook, every laptop I'll buy will be an Apple.

So in short - Yes, it's worth the extra money :D

[atforum]

macs have always been expensive... get a windows laptop or if you believe in the open source / more security crowd, get a windows laptop and install linux.

[hagbard]

Apples are built around two myths, a superior OS and high build quality. Most are suckered into the myth by their charismatic cult leader, Steve Jobs. They drink the coolaid willingly.

[jason9945]

I wonder what the mac os is like....I"ve never used it in person.
I find windows great, I never have problems with viruses or slowing down or crashes once you learn to set things up right.

Thats what the mac os is like, but without having to set things up right. :lol:

The real appeal of the Apple laptops for me was that the OS was written with them in mind. Windows doesnt feel natural on a laptop.

I've had my iBook for 3 years. My first iBook gave me lots of trouble and apple replaced it with an iBook g4 thats been running like a charm - even though I've thrown it around.

[Aero]

Apples are built around two myths, a superior OS and high build quality. Most are suckered into the myth by their charismatic cult leader, Steve Jobs. They drink the coolaid willingly.

Well almost true. Steve Jobs is a very (I mean very very very good) sales person. One of the best I've ever seen, for example he was preaching that the PowerPC was far superior to Intel, now Intel is god.

About the OS Windows was built to be fast, easy to use, compatibility and convenient first and security second. Mac OS is almost built the same except for the compatibility is substituted with security. note: there are always exception to the rules.

For example:
Mac OS x- you cant install anything/change system pref without inputting an admin password. Some people think its annoying, windows does not have this feature so you'll notice that something is installed without you knowing.

Compatibility, well apple has a history of simply stopping or dropping something. ie. floppy, adc, I can't think of anything more right now. Windows will try to make old technology work as long as it possibly can. That is the reason why windows get a lot of BSOD compared to Mac OS X's Kernel Panic or Beachball.

There are lik 100:1 ratio of devices created for windows compared to mac, they want to support as much as possible. But there are some that will not work well with others. This causes BSOD because of driver problem or incompatibility with another device/s.

About the better built well, sort of. Lets compare dell vs apple, something noticeable like the screen, almost the same price machine vs the same price machine. For some reason most dell that I own have an annoying light leakage compared to an apple that I own which does not. The quality and looks of an apple will beat a dell hands down, thickness and builtwise but this is apple's downfall. Why? well because they cram so much in a tight space that it compromises with another lower or missing tech (ie dvd-r/rw dl, 56k modem, pcmcia/expresscard, etc...) and HEAT. An apple can fry an egg. In terms of look I would go for an apple.

[mr.wiz0rd]

I really like their ads comparing the PC guy to the Mac guy :)

Every mac includes a iLife program, what does this include? Does it include the software, keynote? My friend was doing a presentation and it was simply ama-zing!

I guess I'll hold out to buy a mac when school starts again in Sept, b/c my sister will have her education discount + free iPod :D

[divx]

mac mini is cool, small, stylish and low power consumption, definally getting one of those once i stop moving around

[Aero]

I really like their ads comparing the PC guy to the Mac guy :)

Every mac includes a iLife program, what does this include? Does it include the software, keynote? My friend was doing a presentation and it was simply ama-zing!

I guess I'll hold out to buy a mac when school starts again in Sept, b/c my sister will have her education discount + free iPod :D

iLife:
iPhoto
iDVD
iMovie
iWeb
iTunes
Garageband

Unfortunately Keynote is not included in iLife, it is included in iWork which you need to buy if you want it

iWork:
Keynote
Pages

[siriuskao]

For example:
Mac OS x- you cant install anything/change system pref without inputting an admin password. Some people think its annoying, windows does not have this feature so you'll notice that something is installed without you knowing.


A paranoid Windows user can always run as a regular user account and use Run As to get elevated admin previledge. The feature is there, however it's not as user-friendly as OSX's implementation.

macs have always been expensive... get a windows laptop or if you believe in the open source / more security crowd, get a windows laptop and install linux.

Linux may be okay on the desktop but on a laptop, too many thing may not work correctly (suspend/resume/power, wireless). That's why I went with an ibook. You still get the unix core but with a good GUI and no hardware worries.

[Jucius Maximus]

Apples are built around two myths, a superior OS and high build quality. Most are suckered into the myth by their charismatic cult leader, Steve Jobs. They drink the coolaid willingly.

This is partly a troll but there are some grains of truth.

I would not say the build quality is "superior" but it is better than many of the bargain-basement PC laptops around. However the apple LCDs and keyboards are among the best. Apple also introduces first like the mag-safe power adapter, backlit keyboard, built in webcam/iSight, and actual "stylish" colourful notebooks that show how appearance matters to many (but not all) users.

As to the OS, I am certainly convinced it is better. I've been building PCs since 1993 and have had my own mac since 2003. OS X is definitely a superior product to windows, however you can only really learn this for yourself by using it for your real work for an extended period.

Would I want to use only macs? No way, there are simply too many things I can only do on my windows box. But I would not want to be without a mac in my computing environment.

[kennyt18]

-Better built

You'll never find a discount price, unless you know someone who works at Apple Computer.

That's not true. There have been several problems reported with the mac laptops.

http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/26/apple-admitting-repairing-laptop-whining-and-discoloration-prob/

http://gigaom.com/2005/03/03/imac-g5-meltdown/

http://www.macintouch.com/readerreports/macbookpro/index.html#jul07

http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/08/apple-sneaks-new-logic-board-into-whining-macbook-pros/

There are several other problems as well but I can't remember them right now. Google it.

The main reason why Macs are so expensive is because they have a MONOPOLY. Apple is just like Microsoft: MONOPOLY. Apples to Apples.

[radeonboy]

Macs are expensive because Applie has what, 5-10% of the entire market? They have to make their $$ somehow, higher prices is just that. And I don't buy into the higher quality BS that other members are saying.

About the better OS: I am not totally conviced that OSX is better than Windows XP. Both have their pros and cons.

Flip sides around, give OSX 90% of the market, and Windows 10%. You will more exploits for OSX no doubt. Even right now, I've seen some new expolits and viruses for the OSX. I've even heard some for UNIX, which is what OSX is based off of.

BTW: I love Apples damn CinemaDisplays!! drools. so awesome

[slim_shady]

Even right now, I've seen some new expolits and viruses for the OSX.

Go ahead, name some (some, in your words, would mean more than one don't forget) viruses for OSX.

[Flyer]

Go ahead, name some (some, in your words, would mean more than one don't forget) viruses for OSX.
Why exploit 0.1% of the population when you can exploit over 80%?

Remember, people rob banks because that is were the money is.

[slim_shady]

Why exploit 0.1% of the population when you can exploit over 80%?...

Wow this thread is full of facts. Show me stats where apple currently has a 0.1% market share?

I'm all for differences of opinion (i have mac and pc) but c'mon don't pull crap out of your ass like that.

[radeonboy]

Go ahead, name some (some, in your words, would mean more than one don't forget) viruses for OSX.

OSX/Leap-A worm virus - http://www.sophos.com/pressoffice/news/articles/2006/02/macosxleap.html
Inqtana.A virus - http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2150563/second-virus-exploits-bluetooth



OSX Software Update Exploit - http://www.cunap.com/~hardingr/projects/osx/exploit.html

Four new Mac OS X exploits discovered - http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2005Jan/gee20050121028794.htm

Virus scare a lesson for Apple - http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/6451/52/

"Opener" Malware - http://www.macintouch.com/opener.html

So okay wrong choice of words, more exploits, but the no viruses for MAC is a myth. And the previous poster who stated "Why exploit 0.1% of the population when you can exploit over 80%?" is correct.

[slim_shady]

...And the previous poster who stated "Why exploit 0.1% of the population when you can exploit over 80%?" is correct.

Still waiting for a source for this "0.1% market share" fact you both seem to agree on.

[radeonboy]

Still waiting for a source for this "0.1% market share" fact you both seem to agree on.

do you not know how to detect "sarcasm" ??:confused:

[slim_shady]

do you not know how to detect "sarcasm" ??:confused:

Riiiiiiight. Of course.

Anyway, back on topic, many people are obviously happy to pay Apple's prices so it can't be that bad. I'm always amazed when I go to the apple store and see how many people are pleasantly surprised when they use a mac for the first time. :lol:

[radeonboy]

Riiiiiiight. Of course.

Anyway, back on topic, many people are obviously happy to pay Apple's prices so it can't be that bad. I'm always amazed when I go to the apple store and see how many people are pleasantly surprised when they use a mac for the first time. :lol:

I'm not bashing Apple in anyway. Obviously using a MAC is a nice experience, especially when you show them all those Widgets and expose neatness. That really gets them to say "wow".

I use MAC's all the time at school, the ones with the sexy CinemaDisplays. I'm just complaing about the comment about the better quality and virus free myth. It's due to market share. Once Apple gets more popular, you will see that UNIX for that matter isn't stealth. Nothing is stealth.

[mr.wiz0rd]

FOCUS PLEASE!!

I'm here to ask questions about WHY macs are more expensive, not why it's better or why it sucks.

So, after reading the above, do I still need to buy antivirus software for the Mac? And what is a recommended RAM amount?

And do Mac Book Pros have a metal casing.. which would make it really, really durable right? Or would it rust when exposed to humid air?

Thank you!

By the way, Macs make it so simple to choose a system out: either you get the smaller screen or the bigger one :D Unlike Windows laptops you have to pick out the CPU, RAM, HD, Video Card, etc.. Apple makes it so simple:!:

[ericssonboi]

FOCUS PLEASE!!

I'm here to ask questions about WHY macs are more expensive, not why it's better or why it sucks.

So, after reading the above, do I still need to buy antivirus software for the Mac? And what is a recommended RAM amount?

And do Mac Book Pros have a metal casing.. which would make it really, really durable right? Or would it rust when exposed to humid air?

Thank you!

By the way, Macs make it so simple to choose a system out: either you get the smaller screen or the bigger one :D Unlike Windows laptops you have to pick out the CPU, RAM, HD, Video Card, etc.. Apple makes it so simple:!:

The Aluminum actually makes it easier to dent.
Numberous cases of peple not taking care of their system and it results in dents and scratches.
Also, watch out for pitting of the armrests..

[HowEver]

There are no viruses on Macs. Nobody with a Mac has to install antivirus software on OSX, so that's about 5 years of worry free computing. No spyware. No trojans. Nothing.

The references earlier in the thread are to proof of concept attempts that had to cheat to even come close. Apple continually offers free updates that make sure that nothing really does come close though. Maybe one day this will change, but for now it just isn't happening.

Compare this to a PC for which there are literally 100s of 1000s of viruses, with hundreds of new ones each day. You are always at risk. I've installed Windows XP Pro on several computers which had spyware and viruses on them within minutes--as soon as I checked. On fresh installs as soon as they connected to the internet.

Think of the money and time spent fighting viruses and spyware and ask if Mac really are more expensive. Up front, yes, but after the first day of not having to worry about viruses, with no time spent updating NAV or whatever you use, you'll be saving time and money.

[LNahid2000]

Compare this to a PC for which there are literally 100s of 1000s of viruses, with hundreds of new ones each day. You are always at risk. I've installed Windows XP Pro on several computers which had spyware and viruses on them within minutes--as soon as I checked. On fresh installs as soon as they connected to the internet.

Think of the money and time spent fighting viruses and spyware and ask if Mac really are more expensive. Up front, yes, but after the first day of not having to worry about viruses, with no time spent updating NAV or whatever you use, you'll be saving time and money.
Am I the only person using a PC that doesn't get viruses? I've had this computer for the last 2 months with no antivirus installed. After reading this thread, I decided to do an online virus/spyware scan and all it found were a couple tracking cookies. I don't know how you're getting spyware and viruses instantly on fresh installs.

[ericssonboi]

Am I the only person using a PC that doesn't get viruses? I've had this computer for the last 2 months with no antivirus installed. After reading this thread, I decided to do an online virus/spyware scan and all it found were a couple tracking cookies. I don't know how you're getting spyware and viruses instantly on fresh installs.

What scans did you do?
Going to the wrong website will do it.. its mostly spyware ...

Ewido.net has a good online scan..

[LNahid2000]

What scans did you do?
Going to the wrong website will do it.. its mostly spyware ...

Ewido.net has a good online scan..
housecall.antivirus.com by trendmicro. Very reputable company. I've been using that website for years.

[ericssonboi]

housecall.antivirus.com by trendmicro. Very reputable company. I've been using that website for years.

I'd recommend using giving ewido.net a try..
Housecall is more antivirus base.. whereas ewido covers spyware/adware also

[tjuzer]

Why no 12' Macbook pro? Old Macbook so ugly. :twisted:

[LNahid2000]

I'd recommend using giving ewido.net a try..
Housecall is more antivirus base.. whereas ewido covers spyware/adware also
Housecall has been doing spyware/adware for quite a while now. But I gave ewido a try anyway and it only found tracking cookies as well.

[ericssonboi]

Housecall has been doing spyware/adware for quite a while now. But I gave ewido a try anyway and it only found tracking cookies as well.

Alright..
I find ewido picks up more stuff in the least amount of time..
A lot of times Housecall doesn't pick up stuff..

[Flyer]

FOCUS PLEASE!!

I'm here to ask questions about WHY macs are more expensive, not why it's better or why it sucks.

So, after reading the above, do I still need to buy antivirus software for the Mac? And what is a recommended RAM amount?

And do Mac Book Pros have a metal casing.. which would make it really, really durable right? Or would it rust when exposed to humid air?

Thank you!

By the way, Macs make it so simple to choose a system out: either you get the smaller screen or the bigger one :D Unlike Windows laptops you have to pick out the CPU, RAM, HD, Video Card, etc.. Apple makes it so simple:!:
This was answered already...no clones out there, so Apple has a monopoly on macbooks. Also, people get it for the name. Same reason why a low-end Mercedes will cost almost the same as a medium or high-end Honda...

Oh, one fun exploit with the new macbooks is that you CAN crash it with a bluetooth enabled phone. If it is activly seeking out bluetooth connections, just sned and cancel a file repeatedly, quickly. After 5-6 tries, it will hang it. My suitemate still has not forgiven me for doing this.

[IronMac]

Am I the only person using a PC that doesn't get viruses? I've had this computer for the last 2 months with no antivirus installed. After reading this thread, I decided to do an online virus/spyware scan and all it found were a couple tracking cookies. I don't know how you're getting spyware and viruses instantly on fresh installs.

Actually, there have been instances where people hook up their computers to the 'Net and within a matter of hours their machines are infected.

Personally, I've never had that problem because the WinXP machine is surrounded with a firewall and antivirus software.

My OS X machine, while behind a firewall and using its own firewall along with admin password, doesn't even need antivirus software.

OS X simply works. I have a low (and I mean low) tolerance for frustration so OS X is healthier for me. :lol:

[likwidsix]

They are simply priced more expensive because of their target market's willingness to pay.

[Composter]

if there are 100 million laptops out there and 90 million are windows based, of course there are more problems. if there were 90 million macs and only 10 million window based then we probably saying the opposite.

[likwidsix]

if there are 100 million laptops out there and 90 million are windows based, of course there are more problems. if there were 90 million macs and only 10 million window based then we probably saying the opposite.

Problems should be measured by proportions, not by totals.
Because windows has a very large market share, people writing viriuses concentrate all of their time on windows, giving windows and even higher proportion of problems. However, this has nothing to do with why macs are priced higher.

[HowEver]

AdAware by Lavasoft is free (there is a Pro version you can pay for, if you like).

SpyBot Search & Destroy is also free: but get it from the site of the people that make it, since there are 100s of copies that look like it but instead of removing spyware they install it--don't you love PCs?

Run these and let us know how it goes.

Am I the only person using a PC that doesn't get viruses? I've had this computer for the last 2 months with no antivirus installed. After reading this thread, I decided to do an online virus/spyware scan and all it found were a couple tracking cookies. I don't know how you're getting spyware and viruses instantly on fresh installs.

[hellodan]

Bought a macbook this sept... LOVE it. Sure, it cost $300 more than the Dells, but just the package and everything is amazing. Everything about this thing just screams, "i've got class."

I mean, i recieved it in a nice white box, beautifully printed with "MACBOOK" and a nice picture of it on it. Opening it up, i found everything delightfully packaged, i even got a small Apple sticker!

Opening up the laptop for the first time, and removing the screen/keyboard protector, i hear a slight whirrr, and the screen comes to life. It was my first experience with a Mac and dude... i loved it.

The smoothness of everything, and the graceful way icons jump around on screen, and the lovely way the screen saver comes on with nice high quality pictures just shouts, "i've got style."

So i totally think the $300 was worth it.

Excuse me for being a little overdramatic. Too much coffee.

[LNahid2000]

AdAware by Lavasoft is free (there is a Pro version you can pay for, if you like).

SpyBot Search & Destroy is also free: but get it from the site of the people that make it, since there are 100s of copies that look like it but instead of removing spyware they install it--don't you love PCs?

Run these and let us know how it goes.
I've been running spybot and adaware on my computers for years. I like these two programs because they don't run in the background. I don't run an antivirus because it runs in the background which I don't like. And I don't seem to get viruses anyway since I don't open attachments or download suspicious files. It's really as simple as that.

EDIT: Just finished doing a spybot scan and all it found was that I changed a couple settings on my PC to stop Windows from reminding me that I don't have an antivirus or software firewall.

[milhaus]

So okay wrong choice of words, more exploits, but the no viruses for MAC is a myth. And the previous poster who stated "Why exploit 0.1% of the population when you can exploit over 80%?" is correct.
Okay, so thanks for showing up that no viruses for the Mac is not a myth . . . Words are somewhat important: I could say that Windows doesn't have any viruses either, if what I really meant by viruses was hemorrhoids.

BTW, the one virus in the wild described in the links above were on an iPod, and only targeted windows machines.

[HowEver]

So are you saying that the computer you've had for only a few months doesn't get much spyware etc. or that the one that ran for years doesn't get it?

What is an "online virus/spyware scan," btw? Are you letting a website tell you what problems you don't have? Are you sure the website isn't installing its own tracking?

Surely you must be aware how lucky you are that the thousands of viruses and spyware waiting for you haven't found you, since they have found your neighbours, relatives, coworkers and the rest, over and over again. And how lucky you are that your limited defenses haven't left you over for various internet attacks. Maybe you wonder sometimes why this might be the case. At least I know why I don't have to worry about it.


Am I the only person using a PC that doesn't get viruses? I've had this computer for the last 2 months with no antivirus installed. After reading this thread, I decided to do an online virus/spyware scan and all it found were a couple tracking cookies. I don't know how you're getting spyware and viruses instantly on fresh installs.


I've been running spybot and adaware on my computers for years. I like these two programs because they don't run in the background. I don't run an antivirus because it runs in the background which I don't like. And I don't seem to get viruses anyway since I don't open attachments or download suspicious files. It's really as simple as that.

EDIT: Just finished doing a spybot scan and all it found was that I changed a couple settings on my PC to stop Windows from reminding me that I don't have an antivirus or software firewall.

[Composter]

Problems should be measured by proportions, not by totals.
Because windows has a very large market share, people writing viriuses concentrate all of their time on windows, giving windows and even higher proportion of problems. However, this has nothing to do with why macs are priced higher.

well I'm sure it helps with their sales at a higher price. Macs are known or have been known to not have or encounter less viruses and for someone ready to purchase it makes a difference in their choice. The hardware is no different when it comes right down to it.

[Evil Baby]

well I'm sure it helps with their sales at a higher price. Macs are known or have been known to not have or encounter less viruses and for someone ready to purchase it makes a difference in their choice. The hardware is no different when it comes right down to it.


The hardware is very different when you come down to it. Just look at Dell vs. Apple.

1249
Core Duo 1.83GHz
512 ram
60 gig HD
Combo drive (DVD-ROM, CD-RW)
I assume it comes with one year warrenty
LCD display 13.3

$1,299
Core 2 Duo 2.16Ghz
2 GB DDR2 ram
120 GB HD
Radeon x1400 video card
8x CD/DVD +/- RW dual layer
1 year warrenty
Too bad this is 15.4, but even dells 14.1(which I find small but better than 13.3) is only 999 which will beat any student discount and still had a better processor, twice the HD space and twice the ram.


The only real answer is people are willing to pay the extra buck. Not sure if they believe it is more secure(which it is but at a cost) or if Apple's advertising has just worked for them. You're going to find a lot of the idiots who have PC's infected are just as stupid when they get their mac and will put their password in without a second glance. It's a great feature and I'm happy Vista has implemented it but it wont stop the morons from infecting their machines.

[HowEver]

Less? No. None. No viruses. Not any. Zip, zilch, zero.

And the hardware is different.


well I'm sure it helps with their sales at a higher price. Macs are known or have been known to not have or encounter less viruses and for someone ready to purchase it makes a difference in their choice. The hardware is no different when it comes right down to it.

[Evil Baby]

Less? No. None. No viruses. Not any. Zip, zilch, zero.

And the hardware is different.

Actually there are viruses for the Mac, it just requires a very stupid user. Mac has that luxury right now, that the large majority of their users are at least somewhat computer compotent.

[IronMac]

Actually there are viruses for the Mac, it just requires a very stupid user. Mac has that luxury right now, that the large majority of their users are at least somewhat computer compotent.

Or someone who wants to deliberately infect their machine. Yes, it's THAT hard to even get a virus on a Mac! :lol:

[jm20]

There are no viruses on Macs.

Are you sure?
OSX.Leap.A (http://www.symantec.com/security_response/writeup.jsp?docid=2006-021614-4006-99)

Security Link's outlining exploits that do/did exist for OSX
CERT (http://search.cert.org/query.html?col=vulnotes&qt=mac&charset=iso-8859-1)
US CERT (http://search.us-cert.gov/query.html?rq=0&ht=0&qp=&qs=&qc=&pw=100%25&ws=1&la=&qm=0&st=1&nh=25&lk=1&rf=2&oq=&rq=0&si=1&qt=mac&x=0&y=0)

Keep living in that dream world :rolleyes:

[HowEver]

What you're missing is that *no one* was ever infected with a virus if they own a Mac. Those are notices of Apple dealing with problems before you even hear about them.

"Apple released security update X."

Here is a quotation from another site, from today:

I've been on the mac since OS 10.0, and consequently have not had to worry about malware, however, I provided systems support for a lot of people on Windows machines, and all of them had some issues with malware. I'm sure there are people out there who are able to run a well-protected windows machine and avoid getting hit, but those aren't the kind of people who need help with their computers.

The people who had the least trouble were those on dial-up. The 'always-on' broadband connected PCs were constantly getting nailed with various undesirable bits of cruft.

Back in my early days, when I did a lot of programming and was really curious about everything that made computers work, I studied virus-writing (never released anything, nor did I write anything malicious, although I did write some experimental self-replicating code which I tested on my own machines while they were unplugged from the external network). I'm certainly no expert, but I can say that, from perusing hacker news groups like alt.2600, it's clear that OS X has been viewed as the Mt.Everest of the hacking world for years, so the lack of exploits for OS X has certainly not been for lack of people trying.

This old saw about OS X being secure because of it's relatively small user base is pure FUD. Hackers have been aiming squarely at OS X since it was released. It's true that some hackers are working for profit, and they're not likely to waste their time on OS X, but they don't write new exploits anyway... they're just using the latest crop of exploits to spread their payloads. The creative hackers, who are the guys who write the exploits, have been taking shots at OS X since day one, and will continue to do so. Eventually, one of them will score a hit.

When that happens, we will see an advantage of the small user base (assuming it is still small), because the commercial hackers won't bother picking up the hack and using it for their nefarious ends.

But the fact that we haven't been hacked yet is clear and unequivocal evidence that OS X is simply a lot harder to crack than Windows.

Cheers



Are you sure?
OSX.Leap.A (http://www.symantec.com/security_response/writeup.jsp?docid=2006-021614-4006-99)

Security Link's outlining exploits that do/did exist for OSX
CERT (http://search.cert.org/query.html?col=vulnotes&qt=mac&charset=iso-8859-1)
US CERT (http://search.us-cert.gov/query.html?rq=0&ht=0&qp=&qs=&qc=&pw=100%25&ws=1&la=&qm=0&st=1&nh=25&lk=1&rf=2&oq=&rq=0&si=1&qt=mac&x=0&y=0)

Keep living in that dream world :rolleyes:

[jm20]

What you're missing is that *no one* was ever infected with a virus if they own a Mac. Those are notices of Apple dealing with problems before you even hear about them.

"Apple released security update X."

Here is a quotation from another site, from today:


The fact Mac users praise Mac's as a fortress of security is rather strange. If there are vulnerabilities, this means there can/will be virus' written. The Virus example I posted was a proof of concept for anyone trying to sabotage the <5% of the market. The only reason for the lack of any malicious content for Macs is the size of the market share. If you were to steal, would you steal 18 cookies or just 1?

Regarding your article, I don't know whether I should believe it is a credible source of information. I would be suprised if the article came from a non-Mac oriented site/blog/forum. Can you provide a Link to your source?

[HowEver]

It's from a Mac forum site, ehmac.ca .

You see, of the thousands of people on Mac forums where I go, no one has had a virus with OSX. It's much more important to me that people who actually use the computers know that they don't get viruses.

People in this thread who say, "Oh yeah, well I get you could get a virus if there were more of you" are like the spectres in the cave described by Plato: you've never seen the sun, only the shadows it casts from reflections, on the wall.

One day you'll see the light. Perhaps. And maybe one day we'll see a virus. But not yet.

Even the so-called "proof of concept" virus was a hoax. And plugged the next day by Apple in the event that it ever actually worked.

It didn't. It hasn't. No viruses. Matters not the "size of the market." It hasn't actually happened.


The fact Mac users praise Mac's as a fortress of security is rather strange. If there are vulnerabilities, this means there can/will be virus' written. The Virus example I posted was a proof of concept for anyone trying to sabotage the <5% of the market. The only reason for the lack of any malicious content for Macs is the size of the market share. If you were to steal, would you steal 18 cookies or just 1?

Regarding your article, I don't know whether I should believe it is a credible source of information. I would be suprised if the article came from a non-Mac oriented site/blog/forum. Can you provide a Link to your source?

[thenetstud]

One good thing about Apple's is that they are the only company (that I am aware of) to support both the hardware and software of a computer.

If you call Dell or HP with a software issue guess who they refer you to.

Call Apple with a software issue and you get service. If they determine your software issue is actually a hardware issue then they set you up for service not refer you back to the vendor (Dell, HP, etc.)

[bfurtado]

The supposed mac virus that came about last February was not really a virus. The user had to download the .tgz file, uncompress it, install it (I believe it even required an admin password), and then it would supposedly then replicate itself to everyone on one's ichat list, but only local users on the same network via Bonjour. It fails to propagate online. The market share argument is a fallacy b/c the market share has grown to 6.1+ in North America. Out of the millions of Mac users out there, none are malicious programmers capable of creating spyware/adware/virus? OS X is based on Unix, hardly a obscure operating system. You think someone would come around with a credible threat to shut down the zealousy of the Mac Faithful. Yet nothing still. But, recently I was in the market for a new notebook and I too noticed the differencing in pricing. It seems there was a $200-$300 price premium on Mac laptops. As a Mac User that difference is easily justifiable, but for new converts, that may not be so and Apple could benefit from appealing more to these users. The Macbook hasn't been updated in a while, look for better specs and cheaper price in the next revision.

Still, if you go spec by spec, it should be similarly priced. I know I configured a Dell desktop (9200C) and it was more than my 20" Intel iMac.

Brian

[jm20]

One day you'll see the light. Perhaps. And maybe one day we'll see a virus. But not yet.

Web forums are not credible sources, I'd rather put money on The Inquirer (www.theinquirer.net) which is a Tech Tabloid that spreads its share of false stories.

Anywho enjoy your Mac, they get sold for a reason, Mac zealots :rolleyes:

jm20 is powered by Debian 3.1/XP SP2/Server 2003

[jm20]

The supposed mac virus that came about last February was not really a virus. The user had to download the .tgz file, uncompress it, install it (I believe it even required an admin password), and then it would supposedly then replicate itself to everyone on one's ichat list, but only local users on the same network via Bonjour. It fails to propagate online. The market share argument is a fallacy b/c the market share has grown to 6.1+ in North America. Out of the millions of Mac users out there, none are malicious programmers capable of creating spyware/adware/virus? OS X is based on Unix, hardly a obscure operating system. You think someone would come around with a credible threat to shut down the zealousy of the Mac Faithful. Yet nothing still. But, recently I was in the market for a new notebook and I too noticed the differencing in pricing. It seems there was a $200-$300 price premium on Mac laptops. As a Mac User that difference is easily justifiable, but for new converts, that may not be so and Apple could benefit from appealing more to these users. The Macbook hasn't been updated in a while, look for better specs and cheaper price in the next revision.

Still, if you go spec by spec, it should be similarly priced. I know I configured a Dell desktop (9200C) and it was more than my 20" Intel iMac.

Brian

Just to add a counter point, the new Mac Pro Workstations are very competitively priced. In some countries they are actually cheaper than similarly configured PC's.

[FallenAngel78]

I know this post was from quite a while ago... but wanted to add my two cents to the debate any ways...

I'm not sure you can even compare Apple computers with PCs at all. Are you comparing Apple to Dell with the hardware? Or are you comparing Apple to Miscrosoft for the OS? One of the reason that Apple computers are more expensive is because of that integration. You only have to deal with one company for both. I just call one number for both. Makes life simple.

And before someone just says that I am an Apple fanboy (or girl in my case) I also have a Gateway. The tech support is a toll-line and not toll-free.... so unlike when I call Apple I have to pay for that call (a hidden cost in buying the system). Plus if there is an issue with the OS they will likely refer me to Microsoft. I have a Creative Platinum soundcard... a D-Link wireless card... and added RAM. So not only do I have to deal with Gateway but the other manufacturers of well.

Some people will undoubtedly argue with me but I think the added cost is minimized by the stability I have found in Apple. I have a MacBook Pro and have had virtually no issues with it. I am not constantly restarting the computer and do not get a blue screen of death.

I didn't need to spend $80 on Norton SystemWorks like I have on the PC. And since I need to enter my password it is not automatically updating the system on me because of new vulnerabilities. So yes there is an extra price for that peace of mind.

And they just look cool. There is no question that Steve Jobs is a marketing genius. People are willing to pay the price for it... so why would he lower the price?

The problem with people saying Macs are expensive is that they are comparing them to a PC which isn't really a good comparison. What are you paying for? You are paying for the tech support, the integrated system, the design, the OS, and the brand.

[gordholio]

The thing that would stop me from buying a Mac computer is that software/hardware is not nearly as widely available (especially in a small town) as is a Windows computer.
Plus, the Mac may have some little extra touches that are nice, but to me, I wouldn't pay an extra $800 for something very similar to a PC.

I work at Staples and I see the iPod earphones priced at $39.99 (maybe worth about $10 at the most) and that shows me Apple overprices things in some cases.

Apple Computers make up 5.8% of computer purchases, so it's a pretty small number compared to Windows machines.
http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/10/19/marketshare/index.php

[jason9945]

The thing that would stop me from buying a Mac computer is that software/hardware is not nearly as widely available (especially in a small town) as is a Windows computer.
Plus, the Mac may have some little extra touches that are nice, but to me, I wouldn't pay an extra $800 for something very similar to a PC.

I work at Staples and I see the iPod earphones priced at $39.99 (maybe worth about $10 at the most) and that shows me Apple overprices things in some cases.

Apple Computers make up 5.8% of computer purchases, so it's a pretty small number compared to Windows machines.
http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/10/19/marketshare/index.php
What software/hardware is so hard to come by exactly? Most software can be ordered online for cheaper than retail (this is RFD) and what hardware do you need? Anything you can change in a mac mini or iMac is available at just about any pc shop. Laptop/regular hard drives and ram are available at your local corner pc shop. If they are a kingston dealer they can order you the specific mac ram too if you want to get really fancy :-P Keyboards, mice, usb & firewire drive enclosures etc are going to be cross platform too. Lots of audio gear is the same way too. Any fancy hardware would be available from an online retailer too.

Now, What the hell does market share prove?

I'm going to buy a chevy because its the #1 auto maker in north america instead of buying a mercedes? Seems kind of silly to me.

[jayk]

can't you just install the Apple OS onto a regular ASUS or Lenovo laptop?

[Aero]

can't you just install the Apple OS onto a regular ASUS or Lenovo laptop?

yes, not legally though.

[IronMac]

can't you just install the Apple OS onto a regular ASUS or Lenovo laptop?

Kid, if you could do it, don't you think there'd be thousands of people who'd have done it by now? And we're not talking legal or not.

[Emancipated]

Kid, if you could do it, don't you think there'd be thousands of people who'd have done it by now? And we're not talking legal or not.

The OSx86 initiative has made considerable strides. I haven't followed it in a while but there is a list of compatible hardware that people have compiled to suit OSX close enough to be called a bonafide clone.

It's funnyto see this thread again because last night I watched in its entirity the movie Pirates of Silicon Valley on Youtube. Great, great movie if you are at all interested in the chronology and history of the OSes. The "Woz" has said it's a pretty close depiction. At any rate, dual boot FTW!1

[jayk]

Kid, if you could do it, don't you think there'd be thousands of people who'd have done it by now? And we're not talking legal or not.

no need to be demeaning. I'm not a tech nerd like you

[lomoX]

Don't need to trust my comments, just read it yourself from others as to why :

http://www.macworld.com/2006/08/features/macproprice/index.php?lsrc=mwtoprss
In general, Apple does command a little bit more in terms of pricing, because they are in fact much better build, quality is better, very much into detailing.
Just like when you compare a Lexus to a Toyota, the differences are in the detail.

Also Apple does comes with a whole bunch of excellent i-Apps which comes free.

And again, if you get a Mac Laptop, you get the chance to use both Windows and Mac operating system, which is not exactly true the other way round.

Macs are starting to get mainstream, and if you wish to give that a try, this is a good time to start. In general, alot of switcher do have high praise of the usability of a Mac, they genuinely likes to use it over Windows for their day to day activities.

I use both Mac and PCs, there are occassional times that I need a PC, but having a laptop that can do both gives me the most flexibility.

Not to mention the kewl factor! That's priceless...

[IronMac]

no need to be demeaning. I'm not a tech nerd like you

Sorry, didn't mean to be.

[CdTriX]

Buy a Windows Laptop

Install Mac OSX

Cheapest Solution.

Dualboot XP/Mac OSX FTW

[atforum]

probably they need to repay microsoft the money they had borrowed from them...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxOp5mBY9IY

:D :D

[matkun]

The original issue, about macs being more expensive, is just paying for the integration.

It's not a case of a being better then b. It's a case of widely available, heavily customizable hardware and software pieces put together to however you want, to a pre-packaged.. well.. package.

At this point in my life, I would never use an Apple because there is a fair limit on the hardware components I can choose/use. I am also not their target market, which is non-technical people.

It's really just a case of pre-packaged and aimed at a specific audience (Apple and OS X) vs heavily customizable to whatever you want (PCs and Windows).

Build quality has to be compare apples to apples. You can't compare a Dell to a Macbook. A closer comparison in the same category and price range would be a Sony VAIO or a Thinkpad.

Lastly, I'm a PC Gamer. The state of gaming on Macs from what I have seen has not improved at all in the last decade.

[alienas]

Mac laptops similarly to IBM thinkpads are usually built high quality, and also can maintain its value over time(it depreciates slower)

[bfurtado]

probably they need to repay microsoft the money they had borrowed from them...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxOp5mBY9IY

:D :D

M$ already sold their Apple stock, at a hefty profit mind you, long ago. Should held on even longer.

[Talamasca]

What software/hardware is so hard to come by exactly?

Games. The majority of game publishers don't even make Apple versions of their PC games. And the few that do charge a premium.

I think the looks of a Mac have tremendous appeal. Hollywood is in love with them. Virtually every single movie and TV show has the characters using Macs. If you were to guess on Apple's market share based on watching these shows/movies, they would have 90% of the market!

[shaolinmonk]

i recently migrated to a macbook... once i found out about being able to use windows on it..love the style and wanted something different cause i was sick of using windows everywhere... (but still had windows around if i hated mas osx)

being using in for about a month now... and i love it... i don't even use windows at all... mac osx does virtually everything i did before on my pc and a lot of things better (except cellphone flashing and unlocking....i'll leave that to windows)

i got mine cheap though... 799 base model duo core... refreshed model.. which means it was a customer return.. anyone interested should call the around the apple stores cause they might get some returns since it's just after xmas and month end.

overall i think mac's are priced because they choose to market it as a premium product... you're cool and hip and that comes at a price... (whether or not you agree or disagree is another issue... just look at their commercials which have rubbed a few people the wrong way...in terms of actual quality; design, it's own operating system and great build quality..adds to the cost i'd say. the product just seems and feels so more nicer then a typical laptop... but maybe that's just we're led to believe.

being the cheapo that i am though i wouldn't have bought one if i didn't get it at this price..but i think it's definitely worth it.

[lomoX]

No, packaging is only part of it. It is actually targeting more to the non-technical people because of it's intuitive user interface. All the i-apps that came with it are exactly meant to do just that, make things simple and highly usable.

Yet under the hood, it is as powerful as you want it to be with its unix root.

Yes, you might not get as much hardware support because of the market share, but what does an average joe really needs? An extra HD, burner, web cam, printer, mouse/keyboard? These aren't issue anymore with standardized interface now. Plus how many non-technical people really wants or have a need to add a card himself? not much.

And in regards to game play, you can run all your favourite PC games you want if you run boot camp, simply because it is using intel chips, and some benchmark actually find Macs run faster than comparable PCs.

To also show how Macs are starting to grow in popularity, because it just make sense, that you actually gets best of both worlds, check out amazon best seller list for laptops, the first two are not dell, sony or toshiba :
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/new-for-you/top-sellers/-/pc/565108/ref=pd_ts_c_th_more/103-0137759-9143050


The original issue, about macs being more expensive, is just paying for the integration.

It's not a case of a being better then b. It's a case of widely available, heavily customizable hardware and software pieces put together to however you want, to a pre-packaged.. well.. package.

At this point in my life, I would never use an Apple because there is a fair limit on the hardware components I can choose/use. I am also not their target market, which is non-technical people.

It's really just a case of pre-packaged and aimed at a specific audience (Apple and OS X) vs heavily customizable to whatever you want (PCs and Windows).

Build quality has to be compare apples to apples. You can't compare a Dell to a Macbook. A closer comparison in the same category and price range would be a Sony VAIO or a Thinkpad.

Lastly, I'm a PC Gamer. The state of gaming on Macs from what I have seen has not improved at all in the last decade.

[dkim]

i bought ibook 12" year ago with full price but they were having
education deals for Nano at that time.. I ended up getting both
with price of ibook.

It was truly expensive purchase at that time but what can i do?
I liked the design and comfy OS that you get use to more you use it.

only downfall is ibook is heavy as rock.....
and I don't have many applications for it.
I regret buying..should've stuck with my desktop..

[shaolinmonk]

i bought ibook 12" year ago with full price but they were having
education deals for Nano at that time.. I ended up getting both
with price of ibook.

It was truly expensive purchase at that time but what can i do?
I liked the design and comfy OS that you get use to more you use it.

only downfall is ibook is heavy as rock.....
and I don't have many applications for it.
I regret buying..should've stuck with my desktop..

what type of applications are you looking for? i've found everything.. that i used before such as

torrent app
microsoft office
visual hub (video encoding)
burning software (toast)
firefox
quicktime pro
adium for msn
vlc to play videos as well
photoshop
and all the stock apps are amazing and easy to use as well

checkout this site for more
http://osx.iusethis.com/

[jason9945]

i bought ibook 12" year ago with full price but they were having
education deals for Nano at that time.. I ended up getting both
with price of ibook.

It was truly expensive purchase at that time but what can i do?
I liked the design and comfy OS that you get use to more you use it.

only downfall is ibook is heavy as rock.....
and I don't have many applications for it.
I regret buying..should've stuck with my desktop..

Just be glad you didnt get a 14" iBook.

What applications do you need? The reason I got my iBook was for the software, the quantity and quality is much higher than on windows. So please tell us what your looking for.

[AudiDude]

I'm interested in buying a mac laptop, but it seems that the prices are about 300-500 more expensive than a comparable windows system. why is that??

To pay for the beautiful titanium metal casing that renders your wireless useless after 10 ft....

[jason9945]

To pay for the beautiful titanium metal casing that renders your wireless useless after 10 ft....

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[lomoX]

I don't know where you get that from, I'm right now in the basement (router on 2nd floor) with my MacBook Pro, yes beautiful casing et al, yet still over 50% signal strength... (10 ft is always full strength), perhaps it's your router...

To pay for the beautiful titanium metal casing that renders your wireless useless after 10 ft....

[dost]

Do not compare Mac notebook with Windows but compare the $ value..
Buy windows Vista notebook for the same price of MAC and than compare..also add VISTA to it if u did not get it and than you will notice a big diffrence...The VISTA will have less viruses, pathes, etc. as it's got lots of security features built in..

[jason9945]

I don't know where you get that from, I'm right now in the basement (router on 2nd floor) with my MacBook Pro, yes beautiful casing et al, yet still over 50% signal strength... (10 ft is always full strength), perhaps it's your router...

Because you dont have a Titanium case............ Duh!

It only affected Tibooks. AKA Titanium Powerbooks. You have a MBP.

[shaolinmonk]

Do not compare Mac notebook with Windows but compare the $ value..
Buy windows Vista notebook for the same price of MAC and than compare..also add VISTA to it if u did not get it and than you will notice a big diffrence...The VISTA will have less viruses, pathes, etc. as it's got lots of security features built in..

are you saying vista will have less patches and viruses then macs? or less then win xp...

lol... i saw this the other day and it amused me...

http://video.on.nytimes.com/ifr_main.jsp?nsid=b20ca33a9:10fe08cb77f:-11bd&rf=bm&fr_story=d14603c1e23e6ce37920a8134a2e27b1405a4991&st=1167705704928&mp=FLV&cpf=false&fvn=9&fr=122406_101522_20ca33a9x10fb4e3e5bfxw86&rdm=928920.8937885042

[vric]

lol... i saw this the other day and it amused me...

http://video.on.nytimes.com/ifr_main.jsp?nsid=b20ca33a9:10fe08cb77f:-11bd&rf=bm&fr_story=d14603c1e23e6ce37920a8134a2e27b1405a4991&st=1167705704928&mp=FLV&cpf=false&fvn=9&fr=122406_101522_20ca33a9x10fb4e3e5bfxw86&rdm=928920.8937885042

Nice one :p.

Btw I tried Vista and it's a serious pain in the butt. There is confirmation popup everywhere for "security"... Do you really want to execute this software?, Do you really want to open the Settings Panel? Do you want to do this? Do you want to do that?... Damn if I press on that icon, it's because I want to open that stuff...

I tried it for about a weeks and removed it. I was anxious about Vista (XP is getting old after all) but there is still a lot of work to do before I switch to Vista.

I might get a Macbook this year. I'm waiting to see Core 2 Duo Refreshed unit, since there is so many problem with the first Macbook. The XP/OS X thing is really appealing. (and if Vista can run on it someday, it will be even better for the future)

[lomoX]

Because you dont have a Titanium case............ Duh!

It only affected Tibooks. AKA Titanium Powerbooks. You have a MBP.

I had a TiBook b4 this MBP, n it still wasn't as bad as u've mentioned...

[jason9945]

I had a TiBook b4 this MBP, n it still wasn't as bad as u've mentioned...


I didnt mention anything if you read up.

[lomoX]

I didnt mention anything if you read up.

Because you dont have a Titanium case............ Duh!

It only affected Tibooks. AKA Titanium Powerbooks. You have a MBP.

*SIGH*

When u said it only *affects* TiBook, don't you already imply agreeing with original comments?

right, u never said that, so here I rephrase it:
I did also own a TiBook, and it was never as bad as AudiDude claimed, I had no problem accessing my router upstairs.

[A.C.E.S]

Apple's are expensive so they can pay the computer beauticians to keep its appeal... lol...

[jason9945]

*SIGH*

When u said it only *affects* TiBook, don't you already imply agreeing with original comments?

right, u never said that, so here I rephrase it:
I did also own a TiBook, and it was never as bad as AudiDude claimed, I had no problem accessing my router upstairs.

I never made any actual claims. Just agreed with somebody that the tibooks had a problem. Which they did.