Which winter tyres are best???

[glaswegian]

Winters: Pirelli Winter Carving, Bridgestone Blizzaks, Toyo Observe G02, Nokian Hakkapeliita.

[hightech]

Depends on your car, driving style, etc.

Personally I like the Michelin X-Ice or Nokian Hakka 4. The Hakkas are in short supply (at least for my Camry).

[glaswegian]

My tyre size is: 195/55R15

[warpdrive]

I prefer the Hakkas for all around use.
Blizzaks and G02's are good choices if you have lots of snow and roads aren't cleared quickly

[m77m7]

Winters: Pirelli Winter Carving, Bridgestone Blizzaks, Toyo Observe G02, Nokian Hakkapeliita.

There are more than one type of blizzak. There are also more than one type of winter tire. There are performance types and the regular type.

[achc]

It all depends where you go. If you just drive around GTA, Pirelli Winter Carving/210, Michelin X-Ice, Toyo Observe G02 are all fine. I never tired this myself but I heard Dunlop Winter Sport is pretty good.

If you are thinking about offroad, heading north in the winter, Quebec, go with Bridgestone Blizzaks (perfect for black ice) or Nokian Hakkapeliita (best at handling high torque cars). Those are two best tires for winter tractionwise. But for $, handling at high speed, not sure.

I always thought Pirelli 210 was ok but after I used Nokian Hakkapeliita 10, I can't stand the Pirelli.

If you want performance tires, get Michelin Pilot Aplin PA2

[actng]

"Best" is relative. It's like coming on here and asking who's the best retailer. Walmart, CanTire or Zellers?

If you only drive in the GTA, you don't need the "best" tire. A cheapy CanTire motomaster winter tire will do just as well.

Go do some research and find out what it is you want winter tires for. Off road/country driving will need different tires than city driving.

[smokeylovelove]

I heard Winterforce are one of the best - is this true?

[glaswegian]

"Best" is relative. It's like coming on here and asking who's the best retailer. Walmart, CanTire or Zellers?

If you only drive in the GTA, you don't need the "best" tire. A cheapy CanTire motomaster winter tire will do just as well.

Go do some research and find out what it is you want winter tires for. Off road/country driving will need different tires than city driving.

Crucify me why don't ya?

I don't need the tyres for Toronto driving, am going to be in the snow belt area of SW Ontario ( burlington, 407, 403 ), and need good tyres for my 15" rims

[x95zsk]

If you drive in the snow belt areas, make sure you get SNOW tires, not just winter tires. Its very misleading how the tire companies do their marketing. Some tires are better at handling ice then snow. I use Glisvads (used a lot on volvo's) and i found that it is very comparable to the Hakkas.

[poedua]

Crucify me why don't ya?

I don't need the tyres for Toronto driving, am going to be in the snow belt area of SW Ontario ( burlington, 407, 403 ), and need good tyres for my 15" rims

Having spent years driving the 403/407 from the West End I think it simply depends on your personal sense of safety. Clearly, living in the GTA, the main 400 highways will be cleaned and iced quickly, as with most main arteries in a town, so snow itself may not be a huge factor.....the GTA is a mild to moderate winter climate ...at best.

The fact that the bulk of the days in Dec, Jan , Feb and Mar are below 0 degrees C and that most all-seasons lose flexibility at -10 C (snows at -40 C ) could tip matters in favor of buying snows. But if your travels involve the 407/ 403 / Burlington / Toronto on roads that are snow and ice free 80%+ of the time...you could make a case for sticking with a good set of all-seasons in the GTA.

[warpdrive]

I don't need the tyres for Toronto driving, am going to be in the snow belt area of SW Ontario ( burlington, 407, 403 ), and need good tyres for my 15" rims
I think you are thinking along the right lines. While severe duty winter tires are probably overkill for most Toronto driving, conditions are always unpredictable. Look at the snowstorms in Buffalo and Niagara. It's commedable that you are willing to take steps to be well prepared.

[sunnybono]

Winters: Pirelli Winter Carving, Bridgestone Blizzaks, Toyo Observe G02, Nokian Hakkapeliita.

Two thumbs up for Michelins Pilot Alpine tires!!!!!!

sk

[jayk]

ok you guys talk a lot about tire types...

NOW, where do you get them cheap? or get them period? cuz for example, some awesome cheap korean brands I don't even know where to buy.

It's RFD, so good bargain places please ! :)

[m77m7]

ok you guys talk a lot about tire types...

NOW, where do you get them cheap? or get them period? cuz for example, some awesome cheap korean brands I don't even know where to buy.

It's RFD, so good bargain places please ! :)

If there was only 1 place to get all winter tires cheap, then there wouldn't be more than 1 thread on the subject.

[Slippery_Pete]

Having spent years driving the 403/407 from the West End I think it simply depends on your personal sense of safety. Clearly, living in the GTA, the main 400 highways will be cleaned and iced quickly, as with most main arteries in a town, so snow itself may not be a huge factor.....the GTA is a mild to moderate winter climate ...at best.

The fact that the bulk of the days in Dec, Jan , Feb and Mar are below 0 degrees C and that most all-seasons lose flexibility at -10 C (snows at -40 C ) could tip matters in favor of buying snows. But if your travels involve the 407/ 403 / Burlington / Toronto on roads that are snow and ice free 80%+ of the time...you could make a case for sticking with a good set of all-seasons in the GTA.

There is almost no need for winter tires within the GTA. There are actually very few -10C days in the GTA. Snow is cleared within hours on most major routes. By all means winter tires are safer, but really, a good set of All-seasons and some sensible driving will save you some dollars.

[warpdrive]

a good set of All-seasons and some sensible driving will save you some dollars.
Honestly, how many dollars does it actually save you?

Two sets of tires cost twice as much, but funny thing about that is: two sets of tires last twice as long also. Wouldn't the actual cost difference be very minimal over tha life of the car? The cost difference is at most, the cost of extra steel rims, and maybe the cost of labour in changing them over every 6 months. Wouldn't that be worth it to get good winter tires ijust in case you were to actually venture on the highways outside of the center of the universe called the GTA? Lake effect snowstorms are a very real thing, just ask the people in Buffalo.

It's a weird thing to advise somebody asking about getting very good winter tires to save their money and get all seasons. I want a good wine to drink. Would you advise me to buy some grape juice instead?

[Slippery_Pete]

Honestly, how many dollars does it actually save you?

Two sets of tires cost twice as much, but funny thing about that is: two sets of tires last twice as long also. Wouldn't the actual cost difference be very minimal over tha life of the car? The cost difference is at most, the cost of extra steel rims, and maybe the cost of labour in changing them over every 6 months. Wouldn't that be worth it to get good winter tires ijust in case you were to actually venture on the highways outside of the center of the universe called the GTA? Lake effect snowstorms are a very real thing, just ask the people in Buffalo.

It's a weird thing to advise somebody asking about getting very good winter tires to save their money and get all seasons. I want a good wine to drink. Would you advise me to buy some grape juice instead?

Sure if you are going to keep your car for a number of years. Otherwise you will have to have to a) sell them with your car, if you can b) hope your new car will take the same tires c) sell your winter tires.

So then on top of that there is the labour of changing the tires every 6 months, which is either something you pay for or something you do yourself.

As for lake effect snow. GTA is hardly affected by it due to its northenly position on the lake. We get a fraction of the snow that say Buffalo gets. Sure we get some lake effect snow by virture of swirling winds, but it is very little compared to Buffalo.

I have driven for 15 years within the GTA, and yes I have ventured outside of the centre of the universe during the winter. I have NEVER had even a close call on my all-seasons. Of course I don't drive like an idiot during adverse weather. And I don't pay some monkey to change my tires every 6 months.

GTA- little lake effect, fairly high temps....low need for winters. Its a fact that's been quite highly discussed. By all means by yourselves some winters to make you feel better, but in the GTA its hardly necessary.

[warpdrive]

By all means by yourselves some winters to make you feel better, but in the GTA its hardly necessary.
By all means stay with your all-seasons if you feel better about saving the (minimal) amount of money, but please don't assume that other people don't need or can't use the extra traction. If the OP asked for good winter tires, why are you trying to talk him out of it? I personally don't care how many years you've been driving and had "no problems". Your usage of all-season tires may not be typical or representative of the poster's. If I have no problems with not wearing my seat belt in 15 years as a careful driver, does that mean that it is a safe practice?


Sure if you are going to keep your car for a number of years.


I did make the assumption that most people keep their cars for 4-5 years, which would mean he would easily balance out the extra cost of winter tires. There is one additional factor which is nice about having winter tires, you can choose nice summer tires that improve your summer weather traction as well. A good summer tire can be designed to grip better in both dry and wet roads than all-season tires. All season tires are a compromise in both winter AND summer. Personally, any potential extra cost is easily outweighed by the improvement I get in both summer and winter grip. I don't understand why people go through great lengths to buy a nice car, but try to skimp greatly on things like tires which are fundamental in determining the handling and safety of your car. There are much worse things you can spend extra money and effort on.

[Slippery_Pete]

By all means stay with your all-seasons if you feel better about saving the (minimal) amount of money, but please don't assume that other people don't need or can't use the extra traction. If the OP asked for good winter tires, why are you trying to talk him out of it? I personally don't care how many years you've been driving and had "no problems". Your usage of all-season tires may not be typical or representative of the poster's. If I have no problems with not wearing my seat belt in 15 years as a careful driver, does that mean that it is a safe practice?



Please don't assume that I feel that using winter tires is not safer. No where did I post that using winter tires is not safer. Also minimal money is of course relative. You may feel that hundreds of dollars is minimal but I don't. Hundreds of dollars in an area like Ottawa for winter tires may be minimal however in an area like the GTA it is not. Winter tires are not necessary in the GTA. Temps rarely dip below -10, and the roads are cleared promptly.

As for cost, there is the extra cost of rims, and the premium paid for winter tires.

I also believe that if I wore a helmet and flak jacket while driving I would be safer but I don't where them, so what is your point.

Once again, for the THIRD time, if you feel safer, buy winter tires, but in the GTA they are HARDLY necessary. This is not only my opinion, but the opinion of many so called "experts". It is after all only an opinion. If you do not agree with it, do not ride in my car, or be any where in the area that I drive. Thanks.





I did make the assumption that most people keep their cars for 4-5 years, which would mean he would easily balance out the extra cost of winter tires. There is one additional factor which is nice about having winter tires, you can choose nice summer tires that improve your summer weather traction as well. A good summer tire can be designed to grip better in both dry and wet roads than all-season tires. All season tires are a compromise in both winter AND summer. Personally, any potential extra cost is easily outweighed by the improvement I get in both summer and winter grip. I don't understand why people go through great lengths to buy a nice car, but try to skimp greatly on things like tires which are fundamental in determining the handling and safety of your car. There are much worse things you can spend extra money and effort on.

Not everybody drives a "nice" car that requires summer tires. And yes I can think of a thousand other things I would rather spend my money on than my car. But thats just me. Like I said buy your winter tires. You will be safer, particularly depending on where you live.

[poedua]

There is almost no need for winter tires within the GTA. There are actually very few -10C days in the GTA. Snow is cleared within hours on most major routes. By all means winter tires are safer, but really, a good set of All-seasons and some sensible driving will save you some dollars.

Only one point might be of concern.

As i'd said before, the bulk of the days in Dec, Jan , Feb and Mar are below 0 degrees C for the GTA.

Many sites I've seen say that all-season tires lose flexibility at -10 C. However, I don't know if that means that is the point at which they are utterly ineffectual, which means they actually become comprimised at a much earlier temperature of cold - i.e essentially useless after -10 C. I recall some other posters saying that all season tires actually begin to lose their " effectiveness ' ( whatever than means ) much earlier, at something like + 7 C.

If that is the case, and all seasons start to be less than 100% at levels of +7 C, +2 C, 0 C, -2 C etc. etc....then I'd submit that on the basis of temperature alone and it's ability to comprimise the specs of the tire well before -10 C , then you have a good case for getting snows in the GTA.

From Wiki " The average maximum temperature [ for Toronto ] in January is -2.1 °C (28.2 °F), and the average minimum is -10.5 °C (13.1 °F) " ...food for thought.

If any other RFD tire expert can clarify to what degree all seasons actually become below acceptable spec safety levels in terms of temperature - is it -10C or is actually closer to +7C - I'd love to learn more so I can clarify this point in my mind once and for all.

Anyone ?

[warpdrive]

GTA they are HARDLY necessary. This is not only my opinion, but the opinion of many so called "experts".
Posting your misinformed opinion is one thing, but please provide some proof before speaking for all the experts.

The problem with "advising" people that winters are not necessary is that you are making a lot of assumptions. The "average" car with brand new all-seaons may be ok, but what about some of the many new cars (inexpensive) that come with very low profile V-rated all-season tires, some of which are very ineffective in deep snow? What about people that own a rear-wheel drive car like even a base V6 Mustang or Chyrsler 300C? I think people taking your advice blindly are in for a shock when the first big snowfall hits. Some people have jobs which means they have to venture out in the early morning before roads are clear.


I also believe that if I wore a helmet and flak jacket while driving I would be safer but I don't where them, so what is your point.

What the hell does wearing a flak jacket have to do with taking a reasonable common sense measure such as improving your tire choices? I also advise buying an emergency kit and putting it in every car which is also another reasonable measure. Does that mean you say that you didn't need one in over 15 years of driving, so other people shouldn't bother? Just because you choose to be ignorant about tire choices doesn't mean you should encourage everybody else to be.

People, don't even listen to a person with the nick "slippery_pete" when talking about snow tires ;)

[mannyb]

I hate it when people make statements based on at best "anecdotal" evidence. Fact, winter/snow tires outperform all seasons in the winter. Just because I never had a collision with my car doesn't mean I should stop wearing my seatbelts. Two sets of tires will make them last longer. Just like alternating wearing two pairs of shoes. Think of the small cost differential as insurance on you & your family. How much money is that worth?

[MacGyver]

Cops use Goodyear Ultra Grip Ice. I have a set of 4 and would never go back to all-seasons.

[m77m7]

Posting your misinformed opinion is one thing, but please provide some proof before speaking for all the experts.

The problem with "advising" people that winters are not necessary is that you are making a lot of assumptions. The "average" car may be ok, but what about some of the cars that come with very low profile V-rated all-season tires, some of which are very ineffective in deep snow? What about people that own a rear-wheel drive car like a V6 Mustang or Chyrsler 300C?

I couldn't agree more. However, the reasoning may not even go this far, it could be simply to avoid damaging someone's very nice and expensive rims in the winter with the salt and extra moisture.

I do agree that if you own "regular passenger" all-seasons that you can get by the winter fine in the GTA. Ie. the all-seasons witih an S or T speed rating.

[achc]

If you drive in the snow belt areas, make sure you get SNOW tires, not just winter tires. Its very misleading how the tire companies do their marketing. Some tires are better at handling ice then snow. I use Glisvads (used a lot on volvo's) and i found that it is very comparable to the Hakkas.

1+ on that. I think you mean Gislaved right? They are great tires esp to their price. I used Nokian Hakka 10 before and after those got worn out, I didn't have the money to go for them again as they cost too much. So I tried Gislaved and they are VERY good tires honestly. Better then X-ICE or Motormaster, etc.

Someone wrote about Michelins Pilot Alpine? Those are expensive and you don't need those unless you are planning to drive a sport car in the winter (i.e. S2000 :D)

Cops use Goodyear Ultra Grip Ice. I have a set of 4 and would never go back to
MacGyver

I don't know about Goodyear winter tires, they make good big truck tires but in the pass years, Goodyear all season tires are known for GOOD FOR ONE YEAR. That is what good year stands for in the all season series. Not sure about winter ones

[Webhead]

That's what I love about RFD, the comments and opinions from everyone.

Ask 20 people about tires and you'll get 20 different opinions/answers.

I was driving with all seson tires in the GTA for the past 15 years and last year decided to purchase winter tires. Best decision I've made about tires and I'll never go back to all season tires for the winter.
Not only are stopping distance shortened, but the grip that it provides when the weather gets nasty is like day and night. At first I couldn't believe that there was a difference, but after 1 winter I'm convinced of the benefits of winter tires.

IMO, at the end of the day it's a personal decision of what works best for each individual. So, keep up with the great advice/info, even if you agree or disagree.

[actng]

The worst performining winter tire will outperform the best all-season tires.

It does not mean all seasons aren't good. It just means relatively they are inferior to winter tires for use in the winter, in areas like Toronto where the temperatures are constantly cold and possibly outside the optimal operating (temperature) range of the all season tire.

Finally, don't confuse all-seasons with all-weather tires from Nokian.

That is all. Carry on.

[xg3]

yes, is the material that they use that keeps the winter tires flexible during winter... all seaons will harden as the temperature drops.

sure you don't it, but people just prefer more tractions as a safety precaution.

[mannyb]

Winter tires may be worth the money
CTV.ca News Staff

The idea of hitting the road in winter seems enough to send shivers down a driver's spine. However, by investing in proper winter tires, driving in snowy conditions may prove to be less nerve-wracking.

"True winter tires are designed to remain flexible in colder temperatures and therefore give you better stopping capabilities," David Lamb, director of operations for the Rubber Association of Canada, told CTV.ca.

He said it's more important that a driver is able to stop quickly when driving on snow-covered roads than whether they have enough traction.

Lamb explained that winter tires stop better on snow and ice because the rubber compound remains more flexible in lower temperatures.

He said it's the tread design of winter tires that gives them a higher degree of siping.

"It's basically little fins that are inside of the mold and they leave these little indentations in the tire tread. They're in all tires but they're in winter tires to a higher degree so that they give more edges to the tire when it's on the road or on the ice," Lamb said.

Canada AM's consumer reporter Pat Foran tested the tread on winter and all-season tires on a hockey rink. He found that winter tires gripped the ice far better than all-season ones.

"Many people who don't want to shell out a lot of money for two sets of tires, but if you do a lot of winter driving, it may be worth it," Foran said.

Foran suggests calling different tire shops to get the best price as winter tires can range from $400 to $1,000.

Under Transport Canada's current standard, implemented in 1999, real winter tires are marked with a special logo -- a snowflake in front of a mountain -- and have been tested and certified to meet specific snow traction requirements.

While some drivers may choose to keep their all-season tires -- those marked with an M + S (Mud and Snow) -- Transport Canada warns they may not always be capable of handling snow and ice-covered roads.

Following are a few tips from Transport Canada to keep in mind when driving in winter:

Install four snow tires - To help maintain control and stability of your vehicle in slippery conditions, snow tires must be installed in sets of four.
As a tire wears, snow traction is reduced. Tires that are worn close to the tread-wear indicators have reduced traction and should not be used on snow-covered roads or in severe snow conditions.
Mixing tires with different tread patterns, internal construction, and size degrades the stability of the vehicle and should be avoided.
Proper air pressure extends tread life, improves safety, and reduces fuel consumption -- all vital factors in saving energy and protecting the environment. Tire pressure decreases as temperatures drop, so be sure to check the pressures at least once a month when the tires are cold, preferably after the car has been out all night

[mannyb]

I've been using Michelin Pilot Alpins for the last 4 years in the GTA. Best decision I ever made. Even though the GTA is not considered in a snowbelt area, there are many times when the roads are slushy despite all the snow clearing equipment. Big difference driving over slushy roads with winter tires vs all seasons. I do acknowledge that last winter was very mild so there were only a few days where there was a lot of snow on the roads. But the winter before was very cold and had a lot of snow. For the ones that are saying that winter tires aren't necessary in the GTA, my question is: Have you personally had winter tires on your car? And for the ones using winter tires, would you go back to using all seasons in the winter?

My answer to question #2 is: "No".

[Slippery_Pete]

I stand by my decision that a good set of winter tires and sensible driving will avoid the need for winter tires in the GTA. Buy them if you like. Like I said its MY decision. I am not forcing anybody else to do the same. I have 15 successful years of this decision. It may not mean anything to you but it does to me. If I lived up north or in Buffalo etc, I would probably think otherwise. Yell and scream at me all you want, I don't care.

[Narci]

I stand by my decision that a good set of winter tires and sensible driving will avoid the need for winter tires in the GTA.

?

I think you meant all season tires not winters.

[mannyb]

I stand by my decision that a good set of winter tires and sensible driving will avoid the need for winter tires in the GTA. Buy them if you like. Like I said its MY decision. I am not forcing anybody else to do the same. I have 15 successful years of this decision. It may not mean anything to you but it does to me. If I lived up north or in Buffalo etc, I would probably think otherwise. Yell and scream at me all you want, I don't care.We can agree to disagree. We here all want to know; have you ever had winter/snow tires on your personal car?

[Slippery_Pete]

?

I think you meant all season tires not winters.

Doh :)

[commie]

I stand by my decision that a good set of winter tires and sensible driving will avoid the need for winter tires in the GTA. Buy them if you like. Like I said its MY decision. I am not forcing anybody else to do the same. I have 15 successful years of this decision. It may not mean anything to you but it does to me. If I lived up north or in Buffalo etc, I would probably think otherwise. Yell and scream at me all you want, I don't care.

Thats your opinion....but this thread is about winter tires....and which one is the best...so if you have nothing to add about which winter tires is best...then maybe your opinion is not needed in this thread?


to the topic....I have used Michelin Alpin on my last car(celica) and it was great...big difference in handling through the snow...
Currently I have a set of Yokohoma's on my current car...I liked the Michelins more....

[warpdrive]

I stand by my decision that a good set of winter tires and sensible driving will avoid the need for winter tires in the GTA. Buy them if you like. Like I said its MY decision. I am not forcing anybody else to do the same. I have 15 successful years of this decision.

For sure it's your decision, but for the purposes of this thread, all you really did was threadcrap a perfectly good thread asking about choosing the best winter tire.

That may have been fine if you did provide some evidence but all you really did offer is some anecdotal experience and misleading statements like "in GTA they are HARDLY necessary. This is not only my opinion, but the opinion of many so called "experts"

I'd suggest to others they talk to experts and gather their own information to determine which tire type is best for them.

From my own personal experience, most people who've gone to winter tires never really look back. Some have even thanked me for my advice.

[actng]

I spent $80/tire for a 195/65R15 winter tire at Steelcase... I was a little pissed cuz they told me it was made by Nokian under the Champiro GT name.

I contacted Nokian and GT via email, both countries denied any relations with the other company. No sharing of technologies, licensing, manufacturing, etc.

Despite purchasing these tires under false pretenses, and the fact that GT is an Indonesian company that sees NO SNOW in Indonesia***, I have been quite happy with the tires.

I even did some burnouts on dry ground with them and the tires are still good.





***Yes I realize just cuz a company is in Indonesia doesn't mean they can't have research facilities in the arctic circle where everyone else tests their winter tires.