RFD Cool Wall: Car #8 - Cadillac CTS-V

[puff_daddy_58_99]

Well last week's vote was a close one, but by 3 votes it was decided that the Chevy Cobalt SS is an un-cool car. Thanks to all who voted. Here's how the RFD cool wall looks after 7 cars;

http://www.robert-phillips.com/rfdcoolwall.gif

This week's submission comes from RFD member mdc who says:

I would like to see a controversial American car voted on if possible ...
How about something like the CTS-V or the 300C SRT8
Both are faster than the previous generation M5 (which I would guess just about everyone would rate cool or subzero), but being American, can they overcome the bias?

http://www.robert-phillips.com/ctsv.jpg

Sounds like a great idea, so this week we are voting on the Cadillac CTS-V. Is it still your grandfather's uncool Cadillac, or does it have the racing breed for the cool category? Cast your vote before next Saturday.

Remember, if you have a car you want to see voted on, just send me a PM

[MkmBandit]

why choose the CTS of all caddy's? Why not the XLR? The CTS is seriously un-cool in comparison. I'd give the XLR a cool vote

[Spray]

Funny you should post this, once my saab sells this is the car I'm buying. The thing with this car is it's deceptively nimble.

[ar_ken]

I'd say it's a cool car, but being domestic, it's really hard to get a "cool" vote on this forum. Just look at the Cobalt SS Supercharge from last week (or 2 weeks ago? Can't remember..)

[Shaner]

why choose the CTS of all caddy's? Why not the XLR? The CTS is seriously un-cool in comparison. I'd give the XLR a cool vote

Do you have any idea what's under the hood of that car? The CTS-V is different than the CTS. The CTS-V is one bad a$$ car!

The car doesn't depreciate like most domestic cars either. Go search auto trader for a used CTS-V or even just a CTS, you won't find one cheap.

Also, I recommend you drive one of these cars before bad mouthing them. They move like stink, corner like a dream and have the feel of luxury to them. There is nothing uncool about this car!

ps. Keep up with the regular cars. We all know that Ferrari's and Lambo's are cool cars, but how many people on RFD will ever own one? Probably none!

[Evil Techie]

im sorry but interior styling isnt that good

and even though it is faster than the last M5 in a straight line but it will be slower than M5 on a track

interior definately does not reflect upon its price range
not a car worth buying IMO => uncool

http://www.aicautosite.com/images/edphotos/reviews/fullsize/2005-cadillac-cts-v-interior.jpg

p.s. i voted the colbalt SS not because it is domestic but because its a small car that the ricer crowd would go for

[KawaiiTentacleBeast]

I like the interior. It's great that they didn't use any wood in there, I hate wood panels, looks like a car from the 70s. GM was really trying to go for the "performance" look, and I think they did OK with this one, maybe some more brushed aluminum to break up the flat black a little.

Also this car is $70k, M5 is $115k. :lol:

[mdc]

and even though it is faster than the last M5 in a straight line but it will be slower than M5 on a track


wrong ... it beats the M5 in just about every category ... all for 2/3s the price

of course, I actually own one, so I know first hand what the car is capable of.

A Corvette in Caddy clothing (400hp / 400 tq)... nothing wrong with that :D

[sPiKyAZN]

Actually, from the Top Gear times, the m5 is a little faster:

#28 BMW M5 1.26.2
#68 Corvette Cadillac CTS-V 1.33.3

Nevertheless, it's still a pretty cool car. One of the few domestics I would go for.

[mdc]

I thought that was the new 500hp M5

and the day they did the track run with the CTS-V, it rained the night before and the track was very wet

[warpdrive]

I think it's cool enough.

- Cadillac with essentially the Corvette engine
- handling refined on the Nürburgring
- domestic answer to the M5
- comes in manual transmission only (for real drivers ;) too many performance sedans come in automatic only, like AMG's.
- rare enough. An alternative to the all-too common BMW's
- excellent performance for its price, beats E46 M3 for the same price.
- looks unique enough, slightly understated, but still looks serious.
- the perfect Q-ship for covering ground fast.

So while it's certainly not mega-cool, I can respect this car and the people who buy it. It's the anti-BMW euro performance sedan.

[Badman]

cool car:cool:

it has the good styling and the performance. Whats not cool about that?:razz:

[ainsane]

Thank god the Cobalt didn't make it to Cool. I can't believe some peopel voted the Cobalt cool!

[KawaiiTentacleBeast]

What "performance sedan" comes only in automatic? Accord? Camry?

[mdc]

anything that says AMG ... I don't think Mercedes offers a manual trans anymore (except in the SLR)

Also the STS-V (supercharged Caddy) only comes in automatic

[Sonbuster]

i have a question about the cool car wall. is this a weighted average system. for example, if the following were the results:

seriously uncool = 15
uncool = 25
cool =5
sub-zero =26

which one would you classify the car as? would you classify it as sub-zero b/c it had the most votes or "uncool" because the average weight leans towards uncool?

[KawaiiTentacleBeast]

Mercedes has manual available for all their stuff in Europe, but yeah AMG and SLR is auto only.

[puff_daddy_58_99]

i have a question about the cool car wall. is this a weighted average system. for example, if the following were the results:

seriously uncool = 15
uncool = 25
cool =5
sub-zero =26

which one would you classify the car as? would you classify it as sub-zero b/c it had the most votes or "uncool" because the average weight leans towards uncool?


this question has already come up in the last couple weeks, I'm trying to keep the voting as simple as possible, so no weighted averages. If I gave more weight to the sub-zero and seriously uncool ones, then people would be more likely to vote those just to bring the averages up or down to their side. The easier, the better, after all this isn't a science when only 70 or so people are voting every week. If more people start participating, then we can look at a more complicated solution

[Evil Techie]

E60 M5 should still be faster than CTS-V on a track
http://forums.streetfire.net/showthread.php?t=119

thats without a doubt

but yeah CTS-V comes in winning a lot of categories at a very attractive price
but interior is just fugly IMO
i love the exterior
bold and vulgar

however, if it cant beat its target at its game (performance of M5) then to me, its not that cool

[Sonbuster]

this question has already come up in the last couple weeks, I'm trying to keep the voting as simple as possible, so no weighted averages. If I gave more weight to the sub-zero and seriously uncool ones, then people would be more likely to vote those just to bring the averages up or down to their side. The easier, the better, after all this isn't a science when only 70 or so people are voting every week. If more people start participating, then we can look at a more complicated solution

thanks for the response. but wouldn't it be simpler if you had cool or uncool as the only two options? just a thought, anyway. but thanks for clarifying that answer for me, perhapsyou can post the response to my last question in the beginning of the poll [thread] so that won'thave to answer the same question every week. thanks.

[phomp]

I going with Cool on this car. These are nice to ride and sport model can be quick.

[jollyeskimo]

Forget everything else... it's boxy and modern, so definitely a cool from me. :lol:

[MkmBandit]

Do you have any idea what's under the hood of that car? The CTS-V is different than the CTS. The CTS-V is one bad a$$ car!

The car doesn't depreciate like most domestic cars either. Go search auto trader for a used CTS-V or even just a CTS, you won't find one cheap.

Also, I recommend you drive one of these cars before bad mouthing them. They move like stink, corner like a dream and have the feel of luxury to them. There is nothing uncool about this car!

ps. Keep up with the regular cars. We all know that Ferrari's and Lambo's are cool cars, but how many people on RFD will ever own one? Probably none!

where did I even suggest I dont know the difference between a cts-v and a cts? I download topgear like everyone else you know.. and when did I badmouth it? Was it my comment about the CTS being uncool in comparison to an XLR? :rolleyes:

here i'll requote myself in case you misread or forgot..

why choose the CTS of all caddy's? Why not the XLR? The CTS is seriously un-cool in comparison. I'd give the XLR a cool vote

[B0000rt]

where did I even suggest I dont know the difference between a cts-v and a cts? I download topgear like everyone else you know.. and when did I badmouth it? Was it my comment about the CTS being uncool in comparison to an XLR? :rolleyes:

here i'll requote myself in case you misread or forgot..

If they had made the rear bezel body coloured, the car would be perfect.

The 2003 CTS also had this problem, but they realized it and found a fix for the ugly grey behind the licence plate, very quickly.

http://mishami.image.pbase.com/u25/jeremyr/upload/14760974.CadillacXLRrear.jpg


--------

Also realize that American cars depreciate fast, and this car is also subject to that.. So a used CTS-V can be had for mid 40s, and a 3.6L CTS can be had for High 20s to Low 30s! Which is a STEAL imo. If you'll wait a year, until the new '08 CTS' comes out, they'll drop even more, and someone will post it in the Hot Deals section :D

[Sylvestre]

definitely a cool car. won't go so far as to say sub-zero (that's reserved for exotics).

[Samir]

This car has tons of flaws. For example, the labelling on the GPS unit rubs off after about 18 months. The interior is kind of ugly. The head lamps look horrible. It needs a body kit with skirts (but not overdone ricer-style, just a simple one to reduce drag) because of its big sedan origins.

Still, the V version's muscular, unapologetic cubeness, its incredible cornerning and of course the corvette engine make this car, which already appears aggressive, a bit of a sleeper. For that reason my vote is COOL.

[Samir]

To the OP,

I see you are doing a great job of incorporating feedback. It's nice that you have your fellow gearheads at heart. My only suggestion to you would be to reduce the width of the borders, widen the image a bit and use smaller thumbnails for the cars. That way, instead of four discrete sections you can show the cars along a gradient, which is what they do on top gear. For example, the Cobalt SS could be placed in uncool, but skirting the cool line because the vote was so close. Not all cars are equally uncool, you know what I mean.

Just my suggestion, take it or leave it.

[B0000rt]

The head lamps look horrible.
The headlamps look the way they do so as to incorporate these in there :razz:

Heh alot of cars do this nowadays, but it's still cool imo!
http://media.putfile.com/Headlight-Washer

It already has a subtle body kit, compared to the CTS.. Agreed about the interior, I don't like the center stack at all, and the passenger side looks abit wierd. Though I do like driver's dials, the G-meter is abit tachy (no pun intended)

[demha88]

theres just something about this car, that makes me want to barf. anyone who chooses this over an e60 m5 is stupid. well not stupid, but...you get the idea:twisted:

[B0000rt]

theres just something about this car, that makes me want to barf. anyone who chooses this over an e60 m5 is stupid. well not stupid, but...you get the idea:twisted:
Need this be mentioned again and again? Those two cars do not belong in the same catagory. Stop comparing the two.

Would you compare a BMW 325i to a Audi S6? No.

[Slimfast]

its too vulgar to be cool imo

[CompWizrd]

For 71,000 i might as well buy an actual corvette, it'd be cheaper.

I've driven the regular CTS, very heavy, very slow, and not that great of an interior.

[Spray]

I've seen the CTS-V whomping on M3's and M5's on the track.

Why do people keep comparing this with the NEW gen m5? It's 43,000 dollars more expensive...do you know what 40 grand does to an LS2? Try 800 WHP.

Besides the updated CTS-V comes out in 2008, which looks to be very good.

Why would you put this against the corvette? They're two entirely different cars.

[KawaiiTentacleBeast]

That's the market GM is aiming for: M5 and E63 AMG. What else would you compare it to?

The performance is pretty close, so if you like the styling then it's definetly best bang for the buck. But GM STILL can't match the Germans for power, M5 makes 500+HP out of a 5l engine and E63AMG is also 500+hp out of a 6.3l V8, so how does that compare to 400hp out of a 6l LS2?

[careener]

I voted cool despite it's pathetic centre console and craptacular tranny.

[B0000rt]

That's the market GM is aiming for: M5 and E63 AMG. What else would you compare it to?

The performance is pretty close, so if you like the styling then it's definetly best bang for the buck. But GM STILL can't match the Germans for power, M5 makes 500+HP out of a 5l engine and E63AMG is also 500+hp out of a 6.3l V8, so how does that compare to 400hp out of a 6l LS2?
Maybe the STS-V was aiming for the M5, but certainly NOT the CTS-V.

CTS-V was/is aimed at the lower end of spectrum, as was the CTS. M3, S4, C-class AMG, etc.

You really can't just compare hp/L. I mean if you were given an electric motor, and a gasoline engine that made the same amount of horsepower, which would you take? Clearly one would take the electric motor, max torque from 0rpm.

[Samir]

Like the Corvette being 75% of a Ferrari for 25% of the price, the CTS-V is like 90% of a BMW 5-series for 65% of the price.

[KawaiiTentacleBeast]

Maybe the STS-V was aiming for the M5, but certainly NOT the CTS-V.

From the first page of googling for "cadillac CTS-V"

2005 Cadillac CTS-V Test Drive (http://cars.about.com/od/2001/fr/05_ctsv.htm)


...First Glance
With the CTS-V, the General has taken dead aim at the high performance versions of the BMW 5-series (the M5) and the Mercedes Benz/AMG C-class. It intends not only to beat them on the track but to do so at a price point the imports can't touch......



2006 Cadillac CTS-V Review (http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/02/19/211052.html)

....The CTS-V put Cadillac in the market with the BMW M5 and Mercedes AMG sedans....

CTS-V was/is aimed at the lower end of spectrum, as was the CTS. M3, S4, C-class AMG, etc.

The M3 is a 6 cylinder 2 door coupe. Hardly comparable. C 55 AMG is tiny, i.e. smaller than a Corolla and about the same size as a Civic. CTSV is almost a foot longer than the C class and weighs ~250lb more.

In Honda-speak:

M3 == same size as Civic Si
C55AMG == Civic Sedan
CTS-V == almost as big as an Accord
:lol:


You really can't just compare hp/L. I mean if you were given an electric motor, and a gasoline engine that made the same amount of horsepower, which would you take? Clearly one would take the electric motor, max torque from 0rpm.


Umm.....What? :confused:

[Spray]

The fact was the reviews are showing what a leap cadillac has made in the premium lexuary segment. You can NOT cross shop a cadillac cts-v and a BMW m5, theres a $43,000 price difference, people simply dont crossshop that much of a difference in price. It's like saying the base golf is nothing compared to the TSX.

[CraigRT]

LOVE the CTS-V.. just hate GM interiors.

[Evil Techie]

how about an everyday common car for the next cool wall car

toyota Yaris hatchback?

[weedb0y]

Yaris vs Fit :P

vs Versa

[SkiD]

The new CTS will be released in 2007 as a 2008 model and CTS-V in 2008 as a 2009 model.

CTS-V will probably have a new Northstar engine with Direct Injection that GM is developing (good guess would be about 450 hp range), STS-V will probably get the Supercharged version of this motor.

With the new models, nobody should be able to complain about the interior anymore.

The CTS was meant to compete with the 3-series and the STS with the 5-series, but because they are both a little bigger than their competition, they are usually compared with 5 and 7. It is still not clear yet, if the new CTS is smaller or larger than the old one, so that the confusion over which cars it competes with becomes clear (chances are, it's a little larger).

[B0000rt]

From the first page of googling for "cadillac CTS-V"

2005 Cadillac CTS-V Test Drive (http://cars.about.com/od/2001/fr/05_ctsv.htm)

2006 Cadillac CTS-V Review (http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/02/19/211052.html)


The M3 is a 6 cylinder 2 door coupe. Hardly comparable. C 55 AMG is tiny, i.e. smaller than a Corolla and about the same size as a Civic. CTSV is almost a foot longer than the C class and weighs ~250lb more.

In Honda-speak:

M3 == same size as Civic Si
C55AMG == Civic Sedan
CTS-V == almost as big as an Accord
:lol:

Umm.....What? :confused:
So size and weight are only things used for comparison?

Pricing and car lineup should also be looked at. If the CTS competes with the 5 series, and the STS with the 7, what does the DTS compete with?

[wong8egg]

I suggest the OP to post out the specs of the car too, not many people actually know the different between the CTS and CTS-V.

[Jon04CTS]

All I gotta say is, for those that may dislike the way the interior looks or whatever.... You will forget all of that once you start the car and throw it in gear.

I don't mind the interior at all. And this car is just a blast to drive. There are little faults in it, but damn, nothing worth mentioning.

Everyday I go out to the garage with the keys to my CTS and CTS-V.... It's a no brainer, drive the V whenever I can. You feel invincible hahaha.

[bionicbadger]

There are many other cars I would buy for that price before the caddy.

[frogger]

Has its shortcomings but definitely cool, especially for a sedan.

[galanz]

The exterior looks like it's a car that would be at most $45K, not $71K, and the interior looks cheaper than most $25K cars. Definitely an uncool car.

[McLaren]

how about an everyday common car for the next cool wall car

toyota Yaris hatchback?

I doubt anyone would consider that cool.... picture this: Driving up to the Ritz and the doorman wouldn't even open the door to the yaris.

[Evil Techie]

ok, how about the camry hybrid then

or the lexus SC430, i think its one of the most contraversial car in its price range

[SkiD]

The exterior looks like it's a car that would be at most $45K, not $71K, and the interior looks cheaper than most $25K cars. Definitely an uncool car.

Price does not make a car "cool" or "uncool" (and you can blame the $71K price on the 65 cent dollar).

What makes the CTS-V a "cool" car is the drivetrain (corvette engine), suspension (it's a sedan that outhandles a lot of "sports" cars) and exterior that is unique (Cadillac's Art and Science design). Even though the Interior may not be to everyones taste, how many exotics have great interiors?

If the average RFD'er has only ever driven is a high RPM, FWD, 4 cylinder car, they probably won't "get" why a high torque V8 in a RWD car is cool. The CTS-V is not a "supercar", but it should definately satisfy a majority of people out there.

[warpdrive]

Even though the Interior may not be to everyones taste, how many exotics have great interiors?


Exactly. Whether a car is cool may have to do more with its pedigree or capability than whether it has nice plastics in the interior. You'd be surprised how shoddy a Ferrari F40 looks on the inside (you can see the glue around some of the panels).

The CTS-V is exactly cool for exactly what it is....it's a US designed BMW M5... You don't even have to want to buy one, but you have to respect it and significance.

[LazyBoi]

all cadillacs uncool.. for that money.. why not buy a bmw, merc, audi, jaguar........ why why why why????

[Spray]

because for that money, none of those cars have anything close to the CTS-V.


all cadillacs uncool.. for that money.. why not buy a bmw, merc, audi, jaguar........ why why why why????

[B0000rt]

Price does not make a car "cool" or "uncool" (and you can blame the $71K price on the 65 cent dollar).

Agreed, the CTS-V is $52k USD, which works out to only $59k CAD. $12k price difference all becuase they based the Canadian price on a 73cent Dollar, (which is closer to 88cents now)

[bionicbadger]

because for that money, none of those cars have anything close to the CTS-V.

Audi S4 is the same price and I would take it hands down over the cadillac.

[Spray]

The stig in the S4 couldn't touch CLARKSON driving the cts-v on a track. That's what I call a cool car.

[B0000rt]

The stig in the S4 couldn't touch CLARKSON driving the cts-v on a track. That's what I call a cool car.

That's what I was going to say :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhqkV6iRbE0

[Evil Techie]

jeremy and james brought on a good point

if i was in the states, i would go for Pontiac GTO instead of the CTS-V
cause the whole whopping of extra money of the cadillac doesnt get me much nicer interior and not sure if the 4 doors is worth it for me personally if it was going to be a fun car

[SkiD]

if i was in the states, i would go for Pontiac GTO instead of the CTS-V
cause the whole whopping of extra money of the cadillac doesnt get me much nicer interior and not sure if the 4 doors is worth it for me personally if it was going to be a fun car

Which is why there are so many people salivating over the Camaro (at least the V8 version).

[mdc]

I will be the first to admit that the interior isn't the car's greatest selling point ... I however find it quite good overall. The seats have good quality leather with suade inserts, they are very comportable. The steering wheels is a solid feeling unit with aluminium inserts (and all the buttons one would ever need on a wheel). The center stack won't win any awards, but I can use it without looking at it while driving (ever try to do that with that horrible systems in the BMWs and MBs? ... good luck!)

Just to compare, has anyone ever sat in a 3 series? The interiors in those cars are anything but great. The previous gen M3's interior was not that much better ... the current generation 3 series is functional, but hardly beautiful.

And for the record, the person who said the gearbox was trash is wrong ... the shifter sucks (throws as long as a big rig ... which I fixed for $300 for better bushing and a shortshifter and $75 to get rid of the horrible 1->4 shifting "gas saving feature"), but the gearbox itself is excellent ... among the best I have ever used

[mdc]

jeremy and james brought on a good point

if i was in the states, i would go for Pontiac GTO instead of the CTS-V
cause the whole whopping of extra money of the cadillac doesnt get me much nicer interior and not sure if the 4 doors is worth it for me personally if it was going to be a fun car

the 4 doors are what sold me on the car ... with a baby seat in the back and a trunk large enough for a baby stroller and necessary gear, I was able to convince my wife that this thing is actually a family car ... :lol:

[Evil Techie]

the 4 doors are what sold me on the car ... with a baby seat in the back and a trunk large enough for a baby stroller and necessary gear, I was able to convince my wife that this thing is actually a family car ... :lol:

haha that i can understand
a family man that enjoys a good performance car

im driving a big sedan too but im only single
sometimes i do think that maybe a coupe is enuf for me since im single at the moment

still though, id still expect a better interior from a cadillac CTS-V that is supposed to compete with european cars

but i do love the exterior

[puff_daddy_58_99]

I will be the first to admit that the interior isn't the car's greatest selling point ... I however find it quite good overall. The seats have good quality leather with suade inserts, they are very comportable. The steering wheels is a solid feeling unit with aluminium inserts (and all the buttons one would ever need on a wheel). The center stack won't win any awards, but I can use it without looking at it while driving (ever try to do that with that horrible systems in the BMWs and MBs? ... good luck!)

Just to compare, has anyone ever sat in a 3 series? The interiors in those cars are anything but great. The previous gen M3's interior was not that much better ... the current generation 3 series is functional, but hardly beautiful.

And for the record, the person who said the gearbox was trash is wrong ... the shifter sucks (throws as long as a big rig ... which I fixed for $300 for better bushing and a shortshifter and $75 to get rid of the horrible 1->4 shifting "gas saving feature"), but the gearbox itself is excellent ... among the best I have ever used

I think we're going to have the 3 series to vote on next week. At heart, a simple car, but many people find it pretty cool.

[galanz]

Price does not make a car "cool" or "uncool" (and you can blame the $71K price on the 65 cent dollar).

No, price doesn't. But when you spend $71K you want it to look like it. Especially when the interior is outclassed by most $24K cars.

Oh, and the dollar hasn't been anywhere's near 65 cents for years now.

Edit; To quote Clarkson. "It just feels cheap". I guess caddy's really haven't changed as much as they'd like you to think.

[SkiD]

Oh, and the dollar hasn't been anywhere's near 65 cents for years now.


It doesn't have to be 65 cents right now, but when it dropped to that level before, it made GM (and other car manufacturers) base their canadian prices on a (approx) 75 cent dollar (they knew it would eventually go back up). It wasn't too long ago that you could buy new cars in Canada and sell in the states for a profit, it is now the reverse of that.

Just because the dollar is worth more right now doesn't mean that the prices of vehicles will magically drop (there would be a lot of pissed off people that paid higher prices), so basically the prices will stay flat as the gap narrows (or new models are introduced).