How does the Acura TSX traction & stability control compare to that of BMW 3 Series?

[alanbrenton]

Hi,

How does the Honda Accord V6 or Acura TSX's traction and stability control compare to that of a BMW 3 Series and is there a marked difference?

I read an article in National Post a couple of months back (winter season I believe) and they tested a BMW 3 in one of the Nordic countries where BMW has a test site. With the traction and stability set on, and I believe with no winter tires, they couldn't even let the car spin around. That is really impressive.

Which other car models have excellent traction and stability systems on icy and slippery road conditions?

It was mentioned in the news just a day or two ago that in the US, traction and stability control may become a de facto standard a few years down around. That's actual when I am getting a 2nd car and any insight on the pros and cons of various stability control systems is appreciated.

Thanks.

[chickenbones]

Hi,

How does the Honda Accord V6 or Acura TSX's traction and stability control compare to that of a BMW 3 Series and is there a marked difference?

I read an article a couple of months back (winter I believe) and they tested a BMW 3 in one of the Nordic countries where BMW has a test site. With the traction and stability set on, and I believe with no winter tires, they couldn't even let the car spin around.

Which other car models have excellent traction and stability systems on icy and slippery road conditions?

It was mentioned in the news that in the US, traction and stability control may become a standard a few years down around and that's actual when I am getting a 2nd car.

Thanks.

Honda & Toyota all have test sites where BMW, Jaguar, GM have theirs. I forgot the name of the contry / town. But the whole town's economy is driven by these test facilities.

I believe they are more or less the same, but keep in mind that you shouldn't drive a BMW w/o winter tires, and it really needs traction and stability control for winter driving since it's rear wheel drive.

Rear wheel drive actually do not perform as well as front wheel drive in winter conditions. So, I think the TSX will actually perform better.

But if it's winter driving you are looking for, then you should get an AWD car.

[pete5000]

I have a TSX and I had no problems in the winter (London in the snow belt). 1st year with the stock tires (Michelins really don't like the winter) and 2nd year with winter Hankooks on 16" steel rims. Much, much, much (did I say much?) better.

I have a friend with a Mazda 6 and I got to work on a particularly bad day and he couldn't. I don't know anyone with a BMW (well besides a guy with a K1200) so I can't comment on that.

I found the traction control on the TSX certainly helped me accelerate faster than a lot of other cars. My car has the 6spd manual too, so I can control the power delivery a little better than the auto.

[Sprite_TM]

front wheel drive cars perform better than rear wheel drives in winter because in rear wheel drive cars, the wheels are free to do whatever they want in the front, therefore, the TSX should do better

[B0000rt]

front wheel drive cars perform better than rear wheel drives in winter because in rear wheel drive cars, the wheels are free to do whatever they want in the front, therefore, the TSX should do better

Don't you mean, FWD cars perform better, because more of the weight bias in front engine mounted cars, have it on more of the front wheels, than the rear? I don't understand what you're trying to say when you say that "the wheels are free to do whatever they want in the front" Stability control causes the front wheels, or even rear wheels to BRAKE whenever the system senses something that may cause the car to do a 360.

Some, if not most RWD drivers throw sand bags in their trunk, during the winter season..

[DJ_Peanuts22]

Traction and stability control is pretty much standard fair on almost all entry-level luxury cars, but the they can only do so much in trying to get the driver out of hairy situations. Car control eventually comes down to driver skill, experience and judgement.

That said, any AWD Subaru would make a good winter car.

[chickenbones]

Don't you mean, FWD cars perform better, because more of the weight bias in front engine mounted cars, have it on more of the front wheels, than the rear? I don't understand what you're trying to say when you say that "the wheels are free to do whatever they want in the front" Stability control causes the front wheels, or even rear wheels to BRAKE whenever the system senses something that may cause the car to do a 360.

Some, if not most RWD drivers throw sand bags in their trunk, during the winter season..


I think he meant, RWD give the car more control. RWD cars are known for good handling, but being so "free" makes it hard to drive in the winter?

[Sprite_TM]

i said front wheel drive have better control in the "winter" , keyword "winter"

Rear wheel drive is where the wheels at the back are doing the work while front wheel drive is where the wheels in the front are doing the work. u see, when the wheels are doing the work in the back, the front wheels are free to do what they do best, turn, corner which is why it gives better handling. don't u understand that is the reason why RWD cars "drift"?

front wheel drive cars have better control in the winter because the front wheels are doing the work, it doesnt slip as easily. if u ever have driven at rear wheel drive BMW in the winter, u'll understand what i mean, and even though it has DSC, the car can still "slip" in the winter at times because of its rear wheel drive setup.



Don't you mean, FWD cars perform better, because more of the weight bias in front engine mounted cars, have it on more of the front wheels, than the rear? I don't understand what you're trying to say when you say that "the wheels are free to do whatever they want in the front" Stability control causes the front wheels, or even rear wheels to BRAKE whenever the system senses something that may cause the car to do a 360.

Some, if not most RWD drivers throw sand bags in their trunk, during the winter season..

[Anessa]

It's true. BMW owner here and it feels like your ass is wiggling uncontrollably without snow tires. Sand bags won't help anything when the rear wheels can't grip the pavement properly. It's not hard to spin out making a right turn without snows on...I've been caught out by putting them on too late and it snowed. TC isn't a sham but it's no replacement for cheaping out and not buying snows.

[Sprite_TM]

guys, if u ever driven a rear wheel drive car before, u'll understand that the car at times, "slips" during the winter even with DSC.

rear wheel drive cars don't have much "grip" on the road as front wheel drive cars during the winter because rear wheel drive cars don't have as much control because the wheels at the back are "pushing" the car forward

I think he meant, RWD give the car more control. RWD cars are known for good handling, but being so "free" makes it hard to drive in the winter?

[Sprite_TM]

yah , the bimmer wobbles around even with DSC and these guys are telling me rear wheel drive cars have better control during the winter. its because the wheels are free to do whatever they like in the front and the wheels at the back are pushing it forward!!!!

It's true. BMW owner here and it feels like your ass is wiggling uncontrollably without snow tires. Sand bags won't help anything when the rear wheels can't grip the pavement properly. It's not hard to spin out making a right turn without snows on...I've been caught out by putting them on too late and it snowed.

[chickenbones]

yah , the bimmer wobbles around even with DSC and these guys are telling me rear wheel drive cars have better control during the winter. its because the wheels are free to do whatever they like in the front and the wheels at the back are pushing it forward!!!!

No one said RWD drives better in winter. If you read my post, I was just explaining what you meant by "free".

I was just thinking you meant RWD cars are good for handling ("free"), but because they are "so good" with handling, they are more likely to lose control when there's little grip.

Rear wheel drive actually do not perform as well as front wheel drive in winter conditions. So, I think the TSX will actually perform better.

Don't you mean, FWD cars perform better, because more of the weight bias in front engine mounted cars, have it on more of the front wheels, than the rear?

I think everyone was agreeing FWD perform better.

[mau108]

Just put on very good winter tires regardless of which car, rwd or fwd, cuz they make such a big difference compared to all seasons.

If you start to put more weight into the car (someone stated putting sandbags in the trunk) you begin to loose fuel economy and as everyone knows in the winter its already pretty ****** as it is.

You gotta learn how to handle your car in each weather and usually with practice it comes, rwd cars in the winter can't be gunned and expect the car to go straight where fwd may slip but eventually go straight.

[Anessa]

RWD can be fun in winter if you have snow tires and common sense :). Don't be thinking that you're the next Takumi because you'll just be another victim.

[rp_guy]

hah. .what a load of crap

FWD is better for accelerating from a standstill, other than that, it's not nearly as good as RWD in terms of handling.

Braking, Acceleration, Steering are all done on the front tires. Very easy to lose control. You can easily do weight transfer to take load off the front tires so that you can turn. Cannot do it as easily in FWD.

If you know how to properly handle the car, RWD is much better than FWD.

Sprite_TM makes no sense. all he says is free wheels and spinning, but gives no real explanation of what he's talking about. seems to me like he's spitting out what he was told.

[B0000rt]

No one said RWD drives better in winter. If you read my post, I was just explaining what you meant by "free".

I was just thinking you meant RWD cars are good for handling ("free"), but because they are "so good" with handling, they are more likely to lose control when there's little grip.

I think everyone was agreeing FWD perform better.
Yeah I know, but I was just wondering what his explanation was all about?

But from what I'm able to piece together is that he explains that FWD is better in winter because, and only because the front wheels are used to turn AND steer.

People say FWD is better because, (1) They always exhibit understeer, a good thing for your everyday drive, as you'd understeer into a ditch, rather than oversteer into oncoming traffic. (2) Weight bias is on the front tires, on most, if not all front mounted engine cars out there.

[B0000rt]

i said front wheel drive have better control in the "winter" , keyword "winter"
No doubt, I've been talking about winter driving too. This thread is about winter driving, is it not?

[warpdrive]

In the hands of a skilled driver, RWD is more fun and more controllable, but for most people, they are way better off with FWD.

FWD does have more traction for accelerating in slippery conditions and is more predictable because it tends to understeer under power which is intuitive.

But in terms of traction and stability control, I don't believe there would be much difference between one in most cars and the ones inside a BMW. The BMW is more likely to notice the difference between VSC turned off and on, so it *seems* to be better.

[Narci]

I had a C36 with NO traction control. I drove fine with a good set of winter tires.

I personally think AWD is a waste of gas and tires if your just using it for one season (winter).

As long as you don't need to drive like mario andretti in the winter, a FWD car or a RWD car with a good set of winter tires will be just fine.

[warpdrive]

I had a C36 with NO traction control. I drove fine with a good set of winter tires.

I personally think AWD is a waste of gas and tires if your just using it for one season (winter).

As long as you don't need to drive like mario andretti in the winter, a FWD car or a RWD car with a good set of winter tires will be just fine.

I guess it's all about priorities. If you *LOVE* driving and don't mind pushing it a bit. AWD is just so much more fun when the conditions turn nastier. You don't have to drive like Petter Solberg to appreciate the difference, it's something you can notice every time you turn the corner in snow or accelerate from a stop sign.

Personally, I wouldn't have it any other way. An RWD for the summer, and AWD for the winter. It's the best of both worlds. Life is good.

[Sylvestre]

hah. .what a load of crap

FWD is better for accelerating from a standstill, other than that, it's not nearly as good as RWD in terms of handling.

Braking, Acceleration, Steering are all done on the front tires. Very easy to lose control. You can easily do weight transfer to take load off the front tires so that you can turn. Cannot do it as easily in FWD.

If you know how to properly handle the car, RWD is much better than FWD.

Sprite_TM makes no sense. all he says is free wheels and spinning, but gives no real explanation of what he's talking about. seems to me like he's spitting out what he was told.


huh???
RWD will always! outperform an equal car with FWD on acceleration. You will always get better traction on moving off from RWD. That's basic physics!

[warpdrive]

Here's a good article on RWD/AWD/FWD with and without snow tires

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/3888/winter-traction-test-what-price-traction.html

It has actual tests with numbers you can compare.

[aquariaguy]

The TSX drove fine in the winter for me. I love FWD in the winter. Compared to the Accord, the TSX was a bit better because it had better handling. Compare both of these cars to the Pathfinder with RWD (no AWD on), pathfinder sucked! Can't even accerlerate properly without it sliding. Unless you take it slow. However, with winter tires on Accord (V6) and on the TSX too, it was awesome!

[alanbrenton]

Hi,

I was just checking the Mazda Canada website and noticed that traction control comes standard for the Mazda 6 4 cylinder model.

What other cars in the market besides entry level luxury/luxury/SUV/CUV cars have standard/optional stability control systems?

For the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry, only the 6 cylinder models come with stability control.

Is there a difference between a traction control and a stability control system as each car manufacturer names its system differently?

Thanks.

[chickenbones]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fG3cOEW53ag&mode=related&search=

This is the video I was thinking of, this is where car manufactures test their Stability control and Traction control systems and what not. I think all are created by Bosch

The video will explain all your questions about Traction Control and Stability Control.

[alanbrenton]

Hi Chickenbones and Warpdrive and the rest,

Thanks for the links and the video clip that shows the difference between the three systems. It's been very helpful.

This is the link to the Bosch site for those interested:

http://www.bosch-escential.com/us/language1/index.html



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fG3cOEW53ag&mode=related&search=

This is the video I was thinking of, this is where car manufactures test their Stability control and Traction control systems and what not. I think all are created by Bosch

The video will explain all your questions about Traction Control and Stability Control.