Mix & Match winter tires????

[pablo88]

Is it ok to install (winter tires, 99 civic) Front >>> 185-65-R14 and Rear >> 195-65-R14?? basicly, will it be cause proble installing wider tire on the Rear?? thx

[evolution921]

Did you do a rear wheel drive conversion on the civic so that you need wider tires in the back?

[B0000rt]

I doubt it's the case that he did a rear drive conversion.

Something more probable is that he inherited the tires and was wondering if would be safe.

IMO there shoudl be nothing wrong with putting these tires on, so long as there are two matching on the front, and two matching on the rears. The wider tires will have a slightly thicker sidewall, aswell as a thicker width, but the difference is negligible.

[Ryus]

Did you do a rear wheel drive conversion on the civic so that you need wider tires in the back?


Thinner winter tires are better to cut through the snow than a wider tire.

In the OP's case, he has 2 different widths, so he should put the thinner winter tires in the front of a FWD car.

[pablo88]

Thx B0000rt for the reply!

[downloader]

Don't do it your car will not be stable. It will shake and shimmy all kinds. Do it now and just road test it you will know right away.

[CRXGSR]

Don't do it your car will not be stable. It will shake and shimmy all kinds. Do it now and just road test it you will know right away.

Care to explain the above? Why would it shake and shimmy? Assuming balance is correct, nuts are torqued proprerly and tires are round, you will not see any problems.

Do you even know what causes shakes and shimmies??? :confused:

[enko]

Put the tires with the best grip/tread on the REAR of the car.

[myapple]

Put the tires with the best grip/tread on the REAR of the car.
Sure, if you have a RWD vehicle. If you have FWD vehicle, install the best grip/tread tires on the Front.

[B0000rt]

Sure, if you have a RWD vehicle. If you have FWD vehicle, install the best grip/tread tires on the Front.
And when you take a fast corner, your rear tires lose grip first, causing you to oversteer into traffic. Understeering into a ditch is safer.

Safety first my friend, always place the better grip tires on the rear, regardless of drivetrain

[mannyb]

And when you take a fast corner, your rear tires lose grip first, causing you to oversteer into traffic. Understeering into a ditch is safer.

Safety first my friend, always place the better grip tires on the rear, regardless of drivetrainThis is true. the best tires go on the rear regardless of drivetrain.

[downloader]

I have been working as a mechanic for over 20 years. The flex of the tires are not the same, a wider tire will flex more that a tire that is narrow. Just try it and tell me I'm wrong

[CRXGSR]

a wider tire will flex more that a tire that is narrow.

Please explain the relation between flexing and shimmying :confused:

If the tires the same size (left to right), shouldn't they "flex" equally??

And what's the relation between the "flex" of the front tires and the "flex" of the rear tires and how are they related??

This is true. the best tires go on the rear regardless of drivetrain.

No always! Imagine you're going uphill on an icy road. Do you want the best tires on the rear of a FWD car? You'll be spinning you're front tires and going nowhere!

And when you take a fast corner, your rear tires lose grip first, causing you to oversteer into traffic.

Do you know really how fast you have to drive inorder to fish tail a car?? Easier in the winter obviously, but common sense would tell you not the drive too fast anywayz.

BTW, I think there is a law or something that states that the wider (or larger) tires MUST go in the rear regardless of drivetrain.

I think it has something to do with dog tracking of the tires, where the rears need to grip a different "track" than the fronts.

[warpdrive]

Sure, if you have a RWD vehicle. If you have FWD vehicle, install the best grip/tread tires on the Front.
Wrong. The better tires go on the back whether RWD/FWD/AWD. In every single thread people I keep reading this dangerous (mis)information like what you said.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=52


Where to Install New Pairs of Tires. Intuition Isn't Always Right

Most vehicles are equipped with the same size tire at every wheel position. Ideally all of these tires should also be of the same type and design, have the same tread depth and be inflated to the pressures specified by the vehicle placard or owner's manual. This combination best retains the handling balance engineered into the vehicle by its manufacturer.

However due to the front tires' responsibility for transmitting acceleration, steering and most of the braking forces on front-wheel-drive vehicles, it's normal for front tires to wear faster than rear tires. If the tires aren't rotated on a regular basis, it's also common for pairs of tires to wear out rather than sets. And if the tires aren't rotated at all, it's likely that the rear tires will still have about 1/2 of their original tread depth when the front tires are completely worn out.

Intuition suggests that since the front tires wore out first and because there is still about half-tread remaining on the rear tires, the new tires should be installed on the front axle. This will provide more traction, and by the time the front tires have worn out for the second time, the rear tires will be worn out too. However in this case, intuition isn't right...and following it can be downright dangerous.

When tires are replaced in pairs in situations like these, the new tires should always be installed on the rear axle and the worn tires moved to the front. The reason is because new tires on the rear axle help the driver more easily maintain control on wet roads because new, deeper treaded tires are more capable of resisting hydroplaning.

Hydroplaning occurs when the tire cannot process enough water through its tread design to maintain effective contact with the road. In moderate to heavy rain, water can pool up in road ruts, depressions and pockets adjacent to pavement expansion joints. At higher speeds, the standing water often found in these pools challenge a tire's ability to resist hydroplaning.

Exactly when hydroplaning occurs is the result of a combination of elements including water depth, vehicle weight and speed, as well as tire size, air pressure, tread design and tread depth. A lightweight vehicle with wide, worn, underinflated tires will hydroplane at lower speeds in a heavy downpour than a heavyweight vehicle equipped with new, narrow, properly inflated tires in drizzling rain.

If the rear tires have more tread depth than the front tires, the front tires will begin to hydroplane and lose traction on wet roads before the rears. This will cause the vehicle to begin to understeer (the vehicle wants to continue driving straight ahead). Understeer is relatively easy to control because releasing the gas pedal will slow the vehicle and help the driver maintain control.

However, if the front tires have more tread depth than the rear tires, the rear tires will begin to hydroplane and lose traction on wet roads before the fronts. This will cause the vehicle to begin to oversteer in which the vehicle wants to spin. Oversteer is far more difficult to control, and in addition to the initial distress felt when the rear of the car starts sliding, quickly releasing the gas pedal in an attempt to slow down may actually make it more difficult for the driver to regain control, possibly causing a complete spinout.

Members of The Tire Rack team had the chance to experience this phenomenon at Michelin's Laurens Proving Grounds. Participants were allowed to drive around a large radius, wet curve in vehicles fitted with tires of different tread depths - one vehicle with new tires on the rear and half-worn tires on the front, and the other with the new tires in the front and half-worn tires on the rear.

It didn't take long for this hands-on experience to confirm that the "proving grounds" name for the facility was correct. The ability to sense and control predictable understeer with the new tires on the rear, and the helplessness in trying to control the surprising oversteer with the new tires on the front was emphatically proven.

And even though our drivers had the advantage of knowing we were going to be challenged to maintain car control, spinouts became common during our laps in the car with the new tires on the front. Michelin advises us that almost everyone spins out at least once!

Experiencing this phenomenon in the safe, controlled conditions of Michelin's Laurens Proving Grounds rather than in traffic on an Interstate ramp in a rainstorm is definitely preferred!

In case there is any doubt, when tires are replaced in pairs, the new tires should always be installed on the rear axle and the worn tires moved to the front.

If you buy only a pair of winter tires, they should ALWAYS be installed in the back. It's best to buy FOUR winter tires, of course.

[enko]

Sure, if you have a RWD vehicle. If you have FWD vehicle, install the best grip/tread tires on the Front.

I'd correct this statement but looks like a couple already have. Hopefully other mis-information you spit out is also corrected before people get hurt.

I would rather be unable to go up a hill, then be dead.

[myapple]

Fact: If you have a FWD vehicle, the FWD tires will wear faster than the rear due to the power exerted on them.

If you want your 4 tires to wear evenly, it's a good idea to leave the better tread tires in the front. otherwise, your rear tires will have good tread, but the fronts will just get balder and balder.

[enko]

Fact: If you have a FWD vehicle, the FWD tires will wear faster than the rear due to the power exerted on them.

If you want your 4 tires to wear evenly, it's a good idea to leave the better tread tires in the front. otherwise, your rear tires will have good tread, but the fronts will just get balder and balder.

Good call. Do that so that when you total your car, at least you had good tread on the fronts.

[warpdrive]

Fact: If you have a FWD vehicle, the FWD tires will wear faster than the rear due to the power exerted on them.

If you want your 4 tires to wear evenly, it's a good idea to leave the better tread tires in the front. otherwise, your rear tires will have good tread, but the fronts will just get balder and balder.

Yeah, that's a great idea. If I have new tires, I should put them in the front, and then my car is dangerous to drive :rolleyes: Well, at least my tires are wearing down evenly!

[myapple]

Yeah, that's a great idea. If I have new tires, I should put them in the front, and then my car is dangerous to drive :rolleyes: Well, at least my tires are wearing down evenly!
Your sarcasm makes no sense. The point of tire rotations is so that all 4 tires wear evenly over time.

Sorry guys, I think my 4 evenly worn tires with good tread is much better than your 2 BALD tires at the front.

[warpdrive]

Your sarcasm makes no sense. The point of tire rotations is so that all 4 tires wear evenly over time.

Sorry guys, I think my 4 evenly worn tires with good tread is much better than your 2 BALD tires at the front.

Duh, of course you should rotate your tires. I rotate mine every 5000km. How about you? If you rotate often, then you don't have to ever worry about mismatched traction because the difference between the front and the rears treads is always neglible.

If you are deliberately mixing tires (say your rear tires puncture and have to be replaced), putting the ones with more traction at the rear axle is the safer thing to do. Why don't you actually read my quoted post and understand what it means to run mismatched tires.

[B0000rt]

Your sarcasm makes no sense. The point of tire rotations is so that all 4 tires wear evenly over time.

Sorry guys, I think my 4 evenly worn tires with good tread is much better than your 2 BALD tires at the front.
If you were buying new tires, and all four of your tires were bald, why would you buy only 2 new tires?

That statement makes no sense.

[myapple]

If you were buying new tires, and all four of your tires were bald, why would you buy only 2 new tires?

That statement makes no sense.
First of all, I didn't say anything about 4 bald tires. I mentioned something about preferring to have 4 evenly worn tires over 2 bald/bad ones at the front (as a result of putting the better tires at the rear). Please learn to read english properly and don't put words in my mouth.

Once again, if somebody puts the tires with the best tread on the rear of a FWD vehicle, the front tires will wear much quicker (relative to the rear), thus causing the tires to be uneven and eventually the front ones will be bald long before the rear ones do. Uneven wear can be prevented with regular rotations, but it seems like some people must always have the best tires at the rear. If this is the case, there is no need for rotations since eventually the better tread tires will end up at the front at some point - heaven forbid!!!

[enko]

By "much quicker" I'm hoping you made a typo. The fronts don't wear "much quicker". I'd say maybe 5% quicker. If you left your all-seasons on for 3 years, and never rotated, you might be able to tell the fronts were wearing slightly faster.

Although if your car has alignment issues you would definately notice some odd wear patterns. Or if you a pedal-to-the-metal on the gas and on the brakes.

[warpdrive]

First of all, I didn't say anything about 4 bald tires. I mentioned something about preferring to have 4 evenly worn tires over 2 bald/bad ones at the front (as a result of putting the better tires at the rear). Please learn to read english properly and don't put words in my mouth.

Once again, if somebody puts the tires with the best tread on the rear of a FWD vehicle, the front tires will wear much quicker (relative to the rear), thus causing the tires to be uneven and eventually the front ones will be bald long before the rear ones do. Uneven wear can be prevented with regular rotations, but it seems like some people must always have the best tires at the rear. If this is the case, there is no need for rotations since eventually the better tread tires will end up at the front at some point - heaven forbid!!!

First, yes the fronts wear a bit quicker but if you follow proper rotation advice, there will never be a difference between the front and the rears. If you rotate every oil change, you would never be able to tell the difference between the fronts and the rear unless you got out the calipers

Your advice to always put the best tires on the front is completely dangerous advice

This thread is about mixing and matching different tires.

Let's take a real world situation that I personally encountered.

Let's say the owner has a FWD car and gets a puncture that destroys the tire (needs to be completely replaced)

The owner should ignore the wear issue completely because if he follows your inane advice, he will cause a handling imbalance that is extremely dangerous.

Here's the proper advice.

He should look at the other tires.........

If the existing tires are half worn, he should buy at least two new tires. Ideally he should buy four new ones but of course, this is expensive and probably overkill. If the existing tires are quite new, he can get away with replacing just one.

If he buys two new tires, he should put the new ones at the REAR. Not the front. This is regardless of FWD/RWD or AWD. This will keep the handling dynamics to understeering condition rather than an inherently unpredictable and uncontrollable oversteer condition.

The front's will continue to wear down and will be worn way before the rears are done for. As the tread wears down in the front, he should consider replacing the fronts too. If he replaces the front tires, he should move the older tires at the rear to the front, and put the new ones at the back again.

He will NEVER be able to keep the tread even, there is no way that the fronts will ever wear down fast enough to be even with the newer tires. Because the newer tires are always a LOT newer than the other two, he should place priority on preventing unstable handling that can cause snap oversteer condition. I've seen people spin out in front of my own eyes because some idiot told them to put the new tires at the front of the car.

If you continue to spew your stupid advice about putting new tires at the front, you are going to kill somebody someday. Unless you somehow know more than other experts on car dynamics, I urge other people to listen to the industry expert advice instead.

[Ryus]

First of all, I didn't say anything about 4 bald tires. I mentioned something about preferring to have 4 evenly worn tires over 2 bald/bad ones at the front (as a result of putting the better tires at the rear). Please learn to read english properly and don't put words in my mouth.

Once again, if somebody puts the tires with the best tread on the rear of a FWD vehicle, the front tires will wear much quicker (relative to the rear), thus causing the tires to be uneven and eventually the front ones will be bald long before the rear ones do. Uneven wear can be prevented with regular rotations, but it seems like some people must always have the best tires at the rear. If this is the case, there is no need for rotations since eventually the better tread tires will end up at the front at some point - heaven forbid!!!

I can understand what ^^^^poster is trying to say. For instance on a FWD vehicle with 4 new tires, if you were to follow this advice blindly:

"Always put your best tires on the rear"

theoretically, from the new set of 4 tires, even after the first oil change (about 5000 km), the rear tires would still be the best, and if you follow that advice blindly, it would mean you shouldn't rotate your tires!

[myapple]

Nobody is going to rotate their tires after every oil change and nobody is going to die from having evenly worn tires.

I am not going to waste anymore of my time debating this issue with you guys. Have a nice day.

[warpdrive]

Nobody is going to rotate their tires after every oil change and nobody is going to die from having evenly worn tires.

I am not going to waste anymore of my time debating this issue with you guys. Have a nice day.

Buh bye. Nobody needs to read any more of your uninformed opinions.

There are lots of web pages that explain to you proper tire installation practices if you actually wanted to learn about the topic. I would advise you to look and understand them before wasting any more of OUR time

And for the record

Tire rotation can be beneficial in several ways. When done at the recommended times, it can preserve balanced handling and traction and even out tire wear. It can even provide performance advantages. When should tires be rotated? We recommend that high performance tires be rotated every 3,000 to 5,000 miles, even if they don't show signs of wear. Tire rotation can often be done with oil change intervals while the vehicle is off the ground anyway.

[warpdrive]

I can understand what ^^^^poster is trying to say. For instance on a FWD vehicle with 4 new tires, if you were to follow this advice blindly:

"Always put your best tires on the rear"

theoretically, from the new set of 4 tires, even after the first oil change (about 5000 km), the rear tires would still be the best, and if you follow that advice blindly, it would mean you shouldn't rotate your tires!

You are missing the point.

If you have a severe traction mismatch, you should always put the best tires at the back.

In the case where there the fronts are only slightly less worn, putting the best tires in the front should not pose a problem.