engine stalling on '96 Maxima

[D-3vil]

I've recently purchased a '96 Maxima SE (stick, fully loaded). The car has 250,000km on it, but was extremely well maintained and is in excellent condition, save this one problem -- which, of course, started occuring about 2 weeks after I finalized the purchase.

Engine will stall about 2 out of 5 times after being started when cold (engine is cold, not outside temp). The behaviour before dying is what's baffling me.

Here's the scenario of events:
The car will start fine on the first crank. A few minutes into it, the engine will just die. This has happens regardless of whether I start driving the car or I just let it idle.
I can prevent the engine from shutting down by pumping the gas, but it almost feels like there isn't enough fuel getting to the engine. If the engine does indeed die, upon attempting a restart, engine will crank many times before starting, sometimes after several attempts.
Once it starts, though, all behaviour is back to normal.

So far, I was thinking one of the following things may be wrong with it. Some of these may sound idiotic (since my auto mechanics background is shaky at best):
(1) fuel pump ... but why would it act up only after a cold start
(2) idle sensor ... don't really know anything about it
(3) (possibly idiotic) somehow a void of air is being introduced on the fuel line and engine dies when void reaches spark plugs ... don't know what may cause this.

Before going to the mechanic with this, can anyone shed some light into this "mystery"? The car is bone stock, with no mods.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

[pfdude]

How about the battery?

[B0000rt]

Check the towers on the ignition coils may be rusted, check those.

[DragonZealot]

I presume there is no check engine light. Sounds like a temperature sensor is reporting the wrong reading causing it to switch from high idle to normal idle too soon.

To confirm you need an OBD-II analyser (not just a code reader) which will read the actual temp reported from the sensor.

Does the high idle (above 1000 rpm) stays throughout the period before it dies?

[dodo]

dirty injection systems perhaps?

[mau108]

could also be the ignition...too many variables, your better off checking a local maxima forum and seeing if anyone else has experienced the same problem.

[D-3vil]

I presume there is no check engine light. Sounds like a temperature sensor is reporting the wrong reading causing it to switch from high idle to normal idle too soon.

To confirm you need an OBD-II analyser (not just a code reader) which will read the actual temp reported from the sensor.

Does the high idle (above 1000 rpm) stays throughout the period before it dies?
The check engine light doesn't turn on. What you're saying makes sense (esp since it seems that the engine is dying at about the same RPM every time, and definitely during engine warmup), but I don't know how it would account for the extended periods of cranking upon attempting to restart the engine.
Also, the fact that this doesn't occur every time (though it seems to be occuring increasingly often lately) makes this issue kinda hard to troubleshoot (esp by a mechanic).

[D-3vil]

Check the towers on the ignition coils may be rusted, check those.
I looked into ignition coils, you raise an interesting point. I will inspect them first chance I get (hopefully this weekend).

[DragonZealot]

I don't know how it would account for the extended periods of cranking upon attempting to restart the engine.

The sensor is reporting fully warmed up situation while it has not. When you crank at that time it gives leaner than needed mixture causing hard starting.

If it never dies after it fully warmed up then it is likely a fuel mixture problem.


Also, the fact that this doesn't occur every time (though it seems to be occuring increasingly often lately) makes this issue kinda hard to troubleshoot (esp by a mechanic).

Intermitten connection problem? You just need a flight recorder to diagnose this. It is an OBD-II protocol converter that connects to a laptop and records all sensors output and fuel mixture ratio during the journey. It is not that difficult by today's standard. Check with your mechanic to see how much they would charge you. The protocol converter costs about $100 ~ $200 only.


What RMP is it at when it dies??

[maniacshopper]

check the ICM under steering wheel. Sometimes they are badly connected, which can be fixed with some soldering.

Check the ignition coil. Distributor? Is it stalling because of rain conditions. Then humidity leaking in to the distributor can stall it.

If you don't know, bring it in to your local mechanic or dealer to diagnose. Doesn't cost much to diagnose.

[D-3vil]

What RMP is it at when it dies??
it's at about 1,000 - 1,100 when idle. However, I could be accelerating, and it would start jerking, as if fuel is not getting to the engine.

[D-3vil]

check the ICM under steering wheel. Sometimes they are badly connected, which can be fixed with some soldering.

Check the ignition coil. Distributor? Is it stalling because of rain conditions. Then humidity leaking in to the distributor can stall it.

If you don't know, bring it in to your local mechanic or dealer to diagnose. Doesn't cost much to diagnose.
I suspected rain at first as well, but it has also stalled during perfectly sunny conditions (ie day 3 of a 5-day sunny streak).

[DragonZealot]

These 2 links may help.

http://forums.automotive.com/community/70/8952/by-manufacturer/nissan/nissan-maxima-stalling/index.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/viewmorecomments_review_4306_4.html

Regardless it is worthwhile to pull the codes, reset and wait it to happen again, and then pull the code again.

[D-3vil]

These 2 links may help.

http://forums.automotive.com/community/70/8952/by-manufacturer/nissan/nissan-maxima-stalling/index.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/viewmorecomments_review_4306_4.html

Regardless it is worthwhile to pull the codes, reset and wait it to happen again, and then pull the code again.
even if the check engine light isn't on?

[DragonZealot]

There may be some codes stored before you got the car.

[Hula]

Clogged fuel filter.....similar to a past problem I had. Think of a clogged artery and lowered fuel flow eventually leading to no passing. Perhaps the line running through the filter is getting plugged and at 250K, and that fuel filters are often not replaced in a timely fashion, this could be a problem.

[TTony]

Looks like vacuum leak

[D-3vil]

well, today the car pretty much stalled every time the engine got a chance to cool down (about 3 times in total). After the second time, the check engine light finally came on (hopefully not unrelated to this). I will get it read on Monday to find out more about this.

[D-3vil]

Thanks all for your help. This was a tricky one, with many possible causes.

I went to my mechanic today for diagnosis. They pulled 3 codes off the car:

(1) Engine coolant temp sensor 1 circuit
(2) Knock sensor 1 circuit bank 1
(3) MFR controlled aux emissions controls (exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) solenoid)

They suspect that the EGR solenoid is causing the stalling, but they will hook the car up to the real-time monitoring system tomorrow morning (so engine is cold upon start).

According to my own research, if EGR solenoid fails in open position or fails to close all the way, it results in rough idle, hesitation, and possible stalling (which were my symptoms). If it fails in closed position, detonation results, which may have set off the knock sensor alarm as well. I'm assuming the solenoid is sticky and takes longer to open / close than it should.

[DragonZealot]

You should try the cheap stuff first like the temp sensor before you jump into EGR (read $$$).

EGR does not open when idle. It only opens when cruising. You mentioned this stalling happens if you start the car and leave it idle.

[D-3vil]

You should try the cheap stuff first like the temp sensor before you jump into EGR (read $$$).

EGR does not open when idle. It only opens when cruising. You mentioned this stalling happens if you start the car and leave it idle.
I was quoted under $200 for the EGR repair job (if it turns out to be it)... i'm thinking of replacing the temp sensor at the same time.

The mechanic's shop did say they will double check whether the EGR is really faulty - it should show up during real-time monitoring tomorrow morning (hooking it up to the flight recorder -- thanks for the tip!)

Code #2 is apparently thrown in correlation with many other codes, so I'm assuming the knock sensor is fine for now... of course, only time will tell.