Over heating computer, what to do?

[maebach]

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/1614/dsc00150sn2.th.jpg (http://img241.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00150sn2.jpg)

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/2081/dsc00148yb1.th.jpg (http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00148yb1.jpg)

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/9140/untitled3ujso1.th.jpg (http://img167.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitled3ujso1.jpg)
http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/2336/dsc00154uz6.th.jpg (http://img243.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00154uz6.jpg)

When playing games I have to place a fan beside it. I was wondering what I should do, the siding which is taken off, is a clear side. I am thinking about buying 2 fans, putting one in the back, where the grill is and one on the side (cut a hole in the clear casing). The side will let air in and the back one will pump air out. What do you guys think? Will this work?

[Ogata]

Get an aftermarket CPU Heatsink fan. Might I suggest the Zalman 9500. Its kind of big and pricey but it does the job if your not on a budget. Also, Speedfan sometimes detects wrong Temperatures and its not that accurate IMO. For some reason it detects my PSU Temp to be over 100C and I know its not that high after sticking a thermometer in there. As for fans, if you are leaving it open, then there is no need for case fans. If you have it closed then I suggest you put 2 case fans as exhaust that have good RPM.

[terrybear]

yes I have to agree you need to put both front & rear case fans in there asap. To me the problems seems you have no airflow period going thru your tower ... you must ALWAYS have a rear exaust fan to expell the heat that will build up inside the tower. From the photo's there it would be best to fill your 2 rear fan slots with fans & 1 on the front as well. Also as someone sugested get good high rpm fans that are double ball bearings. Antec makes some tri speed fans that might be good if your wanting to control how the airflow goes thru your case ... though I warn ya now many 80 mm fans running at high rpm's will sound VERY loud & anoying & make ya feel like your case is about to fly off on ya .. *LOL* :lol:

[LegiT]

You can also start by using a can of compressed air and cleaning your computer...

[Menace]

Too much dust on your CPU heatsink.

[maebach]

I'll clean the computer. Theres 2 grills on the back, but none on the front. So I was thinking of drilling one on the side. Where would I find Antec fans? Could somebody suggest models, so I could search in the BST section and maybe some local computer stores.Whuile playing games, the computer freezes, I can still hear the sound of the fans in madden 07, but the picture is frozen. I then have to restart my pc.

[cmge]

Too much dust on your CPU heatsink.
ditto... clean the HSF and if need be reapply some thermal paste... 1 outtake and 1 intake should suffice... or have 1 on the side as well

[maebach]

ditto... clean the HSF and if need be reapply some thermal paste... 1 outtake and 1 intake should suffice... or have 1 on the side as well

I never applied any in the first place. . . :|

[pestilenc]

Well most heatsinks come with a wax thing that'll suffice (only barely, I scrape it off first chance I get).

When you remove your heatsink, give it a good clean. Compressed air to clean out all the dust. Then use 90-99% isopropanol to clean off the bottom of the hs and the cpu and then grab some Arctic Silver 5 and put a small dab on the cpu, mush it around until the whole thing is covered and put it back on.

Next, check to see how large a fan you can put on your front and back. If you are lucky, you can put a 90mm or even better a 120mm fan on them. The nice thing about that is the bigger the fan, the slower it can turn and still push a meaningful amount of air. The slower the fan, the quieter the fan.

The above recommendations of one in the front and one in the back are good ones. After putting in the fans, try and envision how the air will flow in your computer. In the front and out the back and try and clear a path for it. Your wires are quite well organized but try and keep the IDE cables out of the path of the air, as they will seriously interfere with airflow.

Another recommendation for a temperature monitoring program is to use Motherboard Monitor MBM. Its great.

It won't take too much work or too much money to get your computer running cool and quiet.

[Codegen]

I never applied any in the first place. . . :|
:eek:

[terrybear]

You have 2 grills in the back & 1 in the front there under where your hard drives are mounted. ya need to figure out what size your grills are so ya can buy the right fans ...

here is the model I am talking about: http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=75080

[Syn3rgy]

undust your cpu heatsink? or maybe just buy a 15$ fan and plug it into a wall socket and also take out the side of your comp and place the fan next 2 it?

[DarkReaper]

:eek:

Hopefully, he is using a thermal pad, right? Right?

Get some fans man. 2 in the back and 1 in the front. Get a new heatsink or at least clean your current one.

Did you build that yourself? I can't imagine why anyone would try to sell a computer with a shoddy airflow like that.

[Codegen]

Hopefully, he is using a thermal pad, right? Right?

Get some fans man. 2 in the back and 1 in the front. Get a new heatsink or at least clean your current one.

Did you build that yourself? I can't imagine why anyone would try to sell a computer with a shoddy airflow like that.

My brothers AXP 2800+ came similarly built...

I think it idles something around 50, I'm gonna bring it up next time I see him.

[TenzoR]

Did you build that yourself? I can't imagine why anyone would try to sell a computer with a shoddy airflow like that.

Eh my gf's computer is exactly like that, she never had any problem with overheating. Hell her P4 1.6 has been 2.13 since I unwrapped the cpu package. Granted I did apply new artic silver every year and lapped the stock Intel Cooler and have an enermax dual fan psu ...other than it's like identical. No case what's ever

[enforcerviper]

Too much dust on your CPU heatsink.
+1

Look at all that dust filling the heatsink slots!

[Amourek]

Yeah something tells me if you dust out the heatsink & power supply, all will be well.

[Deimos]

You can also start by using a can of compressed air and cleaning your computer...

Bingo

No amount of fans will help if your heatsinks are filled with dust!!

Dont waste money drilling holes, or buying fans. Obviously your computer was working perfectly fine before, and once you thoroughly clean out the CPU heatsink (and apply heatsink paste since you haven't), as well as de-dust the power supply and video card and motherboard heatsinks, then you should see dramatic drop in temperature, and no more lock ups.

example:
my cousin's P4 with 6600gt. His Battlefield 2 would intermittently get locked up... sound still looping, screen frozen. I ran atitool artifact tester and monitored the temperature. 40, 50, 60. It just kept climbing. I quickly went to washroom. 90, 100C! Still climbing but now very slowly.

Opened tha case, and nearly gagged at all the dust. Difficult to breath and coughing like crazy. Dust bunny zoo. the 6600GT was completely clogged. Fan couldn't spin at all. Once I roughly removed most of it (not even thoroughly), while running the ati tool artifact tester the temperatures dropped dramatically to 60C.


Did you build that yourself? I can't imagine why anyone would try to sell a computer with a shoddy airflow like that.
I used to run a Duron 700. No fans other than single power supply fan (ducted over dense fin copper CPU heatsink). Little air flow. Virtually silent. And, low temperatues too. With physics on your side, you can!

[Deimos]

+1

Look at all that dust filling the heatsink slots!

I've seen PC's where you had to unveil the dust like dense jungle foliage to reveal snakes of cables, and deep in the bowles what almost looks like a CPU heatsink.

[maebach]

thanks guys, I'll post my temps after cleaning. . .

[maebach]

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/4578/untitledzs3.th.jpg (http://img221.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitledzs3.jpg)

I put thermal paste on, and cleaned the heatsink with compressed air. . . What do I do now? my case is fine, its just the cpu. . .

[Deimos]

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/4578/untitledzs3.th.jpg (http://img221.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitledzs3.jpg)

I put thermal paste on, and cleaned the heatsink with compressed air. . . What do I do now? my case is fine, its just the cpu. . .

I cant see what it says on that screenshot at all.
How do I save the picture or zoom it in. Maybe post a [IMG] link instead of [URL]. Better still just type out what it says there.

Anyway, if after cleaning temperature is still high there are several possibilities:
1. Was it this high to begin with? Several months ago? Any recent changes?
2. Although I have confidence in your abilities, the heatsink might not be making full contact. Although typically in such a case the temperature are usually LOW, and computer stutters or freezes altogether.
3. Remind me again what exact CPU you are using, what voltage set in the BIOS, what voltage and clockspeed reported by CPU-Z.
4. If you are using stock heatsink, its not unusual, especially with P4, for temperature to go up to 60 and even 70C.
5. Make sure cables around the heatsink are not obstructing airflow. EX ATX 24 pin cable bundle, EIDE cables, SATA cables. Both overhead of the heatsink fan, as well as the sides where the air escapes.
6. Cheapest way to lower temperatures with lackluster heatsink is to lower voltage of the CPU, and perhaps correspondlingly lower clock rate too. Ex. My Athlon64 3000+ at 1.5V gets to 2.5Ghz+ on stock heatsink, but gets very hot. At a modest 1.3V, it can do 2.2Ghz. And with just 1.15V, it runs stable at its stock 1.8Ghz, and is barely warm. Dynamic power is CfV^2. It is proportional to frequency but quadriatic with voltage. Doubling frequency will double power/heat. But doubling voltage with quadruple power /heat!!
***this simplification obviously neglects static power (leakage current), which is increasing drastically with each die shrink, and prevalent at <65nm***
7. The easiest, but likewise the costliest solution is to buy a "butch" after-maket heatsink. Good suggestions are CNPS9500 from Zalman, Scythe Ninja,... well pretty much anything at BigFootComputers

http://www.bigfootcomputers.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=Bigfoot&Category_Code=0030
If its a stock Heatsink its still

[maebach]

temps:http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/3356/untitledba5.th.jpg (http://img201.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitledba5.jpg)

CPU-Z:http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/5262/untitledasdmb0.th.jpg (http://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitledasdmb0.jpg)

When I put on the heatsink and tried turning on the pc it wouldnt work, there was a blank screen. So I took out the PC and wiped some of the thermal paste off and now it works. When I took off the processor, there was paste on it and the heatsink, so they are touching.

There are no wires in the way of the fan.

Could it be that I need to buy a new heatsink? If so, I know copper is good. Does it matter on the socket number for the heatsink? Could somebody recommend a good heatsink that I could look at?

[Deimos]

took out heatsink... huh?

I've got a feeling that you're not mounting the heatsink properly. First and foremost, when you try to remove the heatsink you have to be careful not to pull up the CPU with it, because of the suction (which incidentally means it was moutned very well). There are either sticking out studs on the socket or clamps on the heatsink assembly that you have to press down to put pressure on. If the heatsink feels lose in any shape way or form then it is not secure, not mounted properly, and its why your CPU is overheating.

There is a very nice illustrated guide that comes when you buy a retail CPU. Does anyone have link?

EDIT
Found exactly what I was trying to remember:
http://www.intel.com/support/processors/pentium4/sb/CS-007989.htm#Heatsink
look at processor installation. It shows you how to assemble the heatsink properly.

One other thing. You mentioned to removed some thermal heatsink compound and it got better?? If you are installing the heatsink properly, excess heatsink compound will get sqeezed out, and there should be only a small difference.

What heatsink compound are you using? That gooyey stuff that was on originally. You CANT re-use it!

Please specify more details what exactly you are doing.

[maebach]

I bought the compund at @Computers, in Burlington. I 100% positive I put the heatsink on properly. IM also sure that I got the processor out and back in properly also. The PC is at 30 degrees, but the processor is at 50ish. Could it be the heatsink?

[Menace]

Can you take anther picture shot of it for us? It can make 1 to 2 degree difference. By the way, did you install a case fan at the front as blowing in?

Could it be the heatsink?

[Codegen]

How much thermal compound are you using?

You're only supposed to put something the size of a grain of rice on.

Make sure it's like that and not like this:
http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/2908/cb0007ae7.jpg

AMD CPU, but you're supposed to use the same method :D

I know my 1.8ghz P4 has never run all that cool.

[Codegen]

Can you take anther picture shot of it for us? It can make 1 to 2 degree difference. By the way, did you install a case fan at the front as blowing in?
The pictures show that there isn't.

[flyingdutchman]

So the SpeedFan software is not good?

[Codegen]

So the SpeedFan software is not good?
Software (BIOS or otherwise) is generally not that good.

[Deimos]

Well, if you have 50C with stock heatsink and P4 2.4B thats pretty normal. I wouldn't worry about it.

Even if the CPU gets up to 70C, although high, its still ok. Dont worry, it wont get damaged from such low temperatures. The junction temperature is well above 120C.

If you are still concerned get a good quality heatsink. You should look for a copper base. Copper can conduct heat more efficiently. The fins can be either copper or aluminum... doesn't make as much difference. Look for a heatsink with dense array of fins. The more surface area the better.

something like this:
http://www.bigfootcomputers.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=1476HSTT&Category_Code=0030
or this:
http://www.bigfootcomputers.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=4804&Category_Code=0030

[maebach]

Im positive mine is on fine, its a circle on the processor. I didn't put too much on. All the temps I'm posting are with the side case off :| . And I'll take pics of my thermal compounding tommorrow. I 'm posiitive my heatsink is working fine. I think the cpu temp has always been that high, it's just that I never gamed with my pc. So when I upgraded from 7500 to 9800, there was even less air circulation. OMG ITS AT 49! Does it take time for the compound to set in or something?

[maebach]

Well, if you have 50C with stock heatsink and P4 2.4B thats pretty normal. I wouldn't worry about it.

Even if the CPU gets up to 70C, although high, its still ok. Dont worry, it wont get damaged from such low temperatures. The junction temperature is well above 120C.

If you are still concerned get a good quality heatsink. You should look for a copper base. Copper can conduct heat more efficiently. The fins can be either copper or aluminum... doesn't make as much difference. Look for a heatsink with dense array of fins. The more surface area the better.

something like this:
http://www.bigfootcomputers.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=1476HSTT&Category_Code=0030
or this:
http://www.bigfootcomputers.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=4804&Category_Code=0030

Im alright with the temps, but my pc freezes when gaming. THe pc itself is around 35 degrees, its just the processor that goes bezerk. Is there default asus setting that makes the processor stop when it gets to a certain temp?

[Codegen]

I think there's something in the cPU that trips the power when ti gets to hot. Whether it's in the chip or the motherboard, I'm not sure.

[Deimos]

It is quite unlikely that the computer would freeze in games because of the P4. P4 can throttle down when overheating. It would not just freeze. Freezing in games is usually faulty memory, or overheating video card. Although it could be some sofware mess up too.

try disabling fast writes, sideband addressing, optionally decreasing AGP to 4x instead of 8x. Make sure AGP aperature is at least 256MB. Ensure AGP voltage in bios is set to normal (its never beneficial to increase it), and AGP speed is set at 66Mhz.

You said you had a Radeon 7500 and upgraded to a 9800pro? Is this when the problems with gaming began. The 9800pro requires more power, and if you have one of those ultra cheap eMachines type power supplies, it could be the culprit.

Make sure the video card as well as RAM are well seated in the sockets. It might be good to remove and clean contacts. Make sure the heatsink on the video card isn't wobbly. I'm not sure if I recall correctly that 9800pro trapezoid heatsinkis mounted on 2 pins??

If you had a different video card, even though it was also a Radeon its a good idea to clean all remains of old driver before installing the new card, and install fresh new driver.
I personally had some weird voodoo green goblin pikachu magic recently after changing video cards and forgeting to clean up drivers.

Finally, does it happen in a certain game in particular. Try OpenGL games. Try DirectX games. Run 3DMark2001/2003/2005 in loops with rivatuner hardware monitor in the background and try to determine a cause.

[terrybear]

I would also agree here .... I think quite possibly look at getting a good but cheap brand name 350 watt ps & 2-3 case fans to mount in there I am shure the exaust fans for shure will help get some of that heat out of the tower for shure & should give anywhere from 2-8 c drop in temps.

[maebach]

It happens in all games I've tried. Oblivion, WC 2006, and Madden 2007. I can only play the games when I put a huge fan beside the computer. Im 100% positive the drivers are fine because I've played games on this video card before . I upgraded a whiule ago and I played San Andreas and a few more games. Could it be my ram over-heating? I'm not sure what company the RAM is from, but I think it's cheap. What I do know is it's PC 2700. Or HDD? I have 2 hdds that are in slots above each other.

[Deimos]

It happens in all games I've tried. Oblivion, WC 2006, and Madden 2007. I can only play the games when I put a huge fan beside the computer. Im 100% positive the drivers are fine because I've played games on this video card before . I upgraded a whiule ago and I played San Andreas and a few more games. Could it be my ram over-heating? I'm not sure what company the RAM is from, but I think it's cheap. What I do know is it's PC 2700. Or HDD? I have 2 hdds that are in slots above each other.

Please do the following.
Run SuperPI with 32M test.
Run Prime95 torture test overnight (8 hours).

If any of them crashes its indeed memory/CPU.
==========================

Next, examine your video card to make sure the heatsink is on tight. Then, uniinstall your video card drivers, use driver cleaner to remove remains and install drivers new.
Run DXDIAG (comes with windows), video tests. If its fine, get rivatuner and run hardware monitor while you run atitool artifact tester for an hour. Similarly you can also use rthdribl. These programs are pretty intensive and heat up the video card really good, and will expose problems. While the test is running you can see the temperature of the video card on the rivatuner hardware monitor graph.

[maebach]

Here's super pi at 32m:

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/1725/pitu0.th.jpg (http://img337.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pitu0.jpg)

Didnt crash.

[Deimos]

Here's super pi at 32m:

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/1725/pitu0.th.jpg (http://img337.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pitu0.jpg)

Didnt crash.

And, what if you run ATItool artifact tester continuously with rivatuner hardware monitor in the background (to see the graph of the temperature)?

[maebach]

And, what if you run ATItool artifact tester continuously with rivatuner hardware monitor in the background (to see the graph of the temperature)?

I ran both of the programs. And I had to leave for a bit. When I came4 back, after about 15 mins, there were awkward colours on the screen, and I had to restart the PC. When it booted up I ran atitool, and this is what I got:

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/6158/atitoolhk6.th.jpg (http://img90.imageshack.us/my.php?image=atitoolhk6.jpg)


I ran the tests again, and this is what came up:

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/8472/untitledasdaspx4.th.jpg (http://img177.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitledasdaspx4.jpg)

after that, I aborted the atitool test.

[Codegen]

Edit: Whoops, didn't show up the first time on above post.

[Codegen]

Edit: DP of above.

[maebach]

Edit: DP of above.

Sure :|

[Deimos]

try a different video card from a friend.

see if that fixes it.

[maebach]

try a different video card from a friend.

see if that fixes it.

THe Video card having a problem doesnt make sense. I can play games when I put a fan beside the pc. Doesnt that mean that it's getting too hot in the computer? I'll check the fan and heatsink on the video card, maybe their not functioning properly. . .

[Deimos]

THe Video card having a problem doesnt make sense. I can play games when I put a fan beside the pc. Doesnt that mean that it's getting too hot in the computer? I'll check the fan and heatsink on the video card, maybe their not functioning properly. . .

video cards also get very hot. If not cooled down properly, or malfunctioning, they would explain the behavior.

[sickcars]

If you have a fan blowing on your computer ( when the side is open) & it works and does not crash then its a Heat issue. (since it will crash when there is not fan)

So if you have the side of the case on (which you should) & it crashs then its a heat issue and you need to fix that. Usually by cleaning dust/Add more case fans. I cant see your pics you have posted (because im @ work) but if you have not added any case fans add them to bring your temps down in your case which will help your video card cool down. Also make sure your video card fan is clean from dust.

Fans in the back of the case blow air OUT and fans in the front blow air IN.

You can find some good case fans here, http://www.Bigfootcomputers.com SlntX makes some good fans, I have used them many times for clients and they are great.

Ciao

[Deimos]

"good air flow" is over rated
I've had 10 maybe 20 computers. I cant recall any to have had extra case fans. And, no problems.

Heatwise in order of severity:
1. heatsink contact. you get a couple grains of sand under there, or worse yet, air gap, and its all over.
2. dust in the heatsink. dust=>no surface area=>might as well have no heatsink at all. serious problem.
3. dead/clogged/stopped fan. I find the dinky fans start squeeking after about 2 years, so I open them up and put some lubricating oil and tape it back up. Without the airflow, the heatsinks efficiency is drastically reduced.
4. material and design of heatsink. Copper base is prefered because of higher heat conductivity. aluminum fins are prefered because they are lighter (so you can get denser), dont tarnish, and disipate heat to air better.
5. Heatsink compound. Many people swear it makes a huge difference if you used premium stuff, but I found little. Typically the smaller the surface and larger the heat source the greater difference this makes. ie. AthlonXP. For P4 and Athlon64 both with heat spreaders, heatsink compound doesn't make as much difference.

[sickcars]

"good air flow" is over rated
I've had 10 maybe 20 computers. I cant recall any to have had extra case fans. And, no problems.


If you are having heat problems, then yes airflow is important and fans should be added to help. But alot of the time like your sayin, you can get away without adding any case fans. But of course your temps will be higher and that could effect the long term life of your parts.

Ciao

[Deimos]

If you are having heat problems, then yes airflow is important and fans should be added to help. But alot of the time like your sayin, you can get away without adding any case fans. But of course your temps will be higher and that could effect the long term life of your parts.

Ciao

the extra few degrees of cooling perhaps provided by case fans, pales in comparison to what happens when there is no heatsink contact, heatsink clogged with dust, or fan stopped/dead.

With whatever minimal vauge information he provided, I've exhausted what I can do to help him without coming over there and fixing it myself. I've pretty much provided all the troubleshooting info I can think off.

Good luck dude.

[sickcars]

the extra few degrees of cooling perhaps provided by case fans, pales in comparison to what happens when there is no heatsink contact, heatsink clogged with dust, or fan stopped/dead.

With whatever minimal vauge information he provided, I've exhausted what I can do to help him without coming over there and fixing it myself. I've pretty much provided all the troubleshooting info I can think off.

Good luck dude.


Well I'm assuming his heatsink is on correctly and everything is properly cleaned and cables are not everywhere and so on. Then a case fan or 2 would help him out.

But of course if the above things are not done then they need to be fixed first.

Ciao

[Neb]

I have same prob with my 9800. I use an Antec Aria case though! so it's tiny and ventilation wasn't very good. Try underclocking ur 9800. Make sure the 9800 has an individual power line from the PSU to it, not sharing it with 2 HD. It will crash either becuase of heat or it's not getting enough Juice. In ur Bios you can maybe up the agp voltage too.. I cant' remmeber what I have set it on. 1.65 or something.

Try that and see if it still crashes.

[Deimos]

I have same prob with my 9800. I use an Antec Aria case though! so it's tiny and ventilation wasn't very good. Try underclocking ur 9800. Make sure the 9800 has an individual power line from the PSU to it, not sharing it with 2 HD. It will crash either becuase of heat or it's not getting enough Juice. In ur Bios you can maybe up the agp voltage too.. I cant' remmeber what I have set it on. 1.65 or something.

Try that and see if it still crashes.

try it in a different computer, and see if it does the same thing. Then you can tell if its the power supply or the video card.

dont raise the AGP voltage. I've never seen it help anything. Lower the clocks of the 9800 is a good suggestion though. Thanks Neb.

[maebach]

Yesterday I was busy, so sorry I couldnt reply. I'm going to a little bit of everything. I've bought 3 fans from NCIX:

Antec TRI-COOL 80MM 3 Speed Case Fan W/ Blue LED 3PIN 4PIN

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=17332&vpn=TRICOOL80MMBLUELED&manufacture=ANTEC

I'm going to take out my video card and check the heatsink. I'll lower the clocks with the BIOS, and I'll try to get someone who'll let me experiment with their computer.

[maebach]

http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/491/maplh1.th.jpg (http://img129.imageshack.us/my.php?image=maplh1.jpg)

that's what I have right now. I'm not sure how to fix the air circulation.

1. heatsink fan
2. fan 1 blowing into the pc
3. powre supply
4. fan 2 blowing air out
5. fan 3 blowing air out
6. Video card heatsink fan blowing downward
7. dvdrw
8. cdrw
9. hdd1
10. hdd2

[terrybear]

did you get them already & have them installed yet ?? :)

[maebach]

did you get them already & have them installed yet ?? :)

Yea I ordered them on sunday and got them yesterday. I put them in. Can anybody suggest how I should place the fans?

[terrybear]

Cool I have 2 of there 120 mm ones & they rock !!

Well from that chart ya got them in correctly & should be firing the proper ways as well.

I would sugest playing some games again on your pc with them at there highest speeds with the case closed & let us know back here if its still doing the same thing as before.

[maebach]

Cool I have 2 of there 120 mm ones & they rock !!

Well from that chart ya got them in correctly & should be firing the proper ways as well.

I would sugest playing some games again on your pc with them at there highest speeds with the case closed & let us know back here if its still doing the same thing as before.

This morning I cleaned the heatsink on the video card and turned the back 2 fans to blow air in. So then I had all 3 fans blowing air into my pc. I played madden for about an hour, and then paused it, and left for a few hours, came back and it was fine. When I closed the game, I got a message from MBM, that my processor was at 72 degrees! Then I realized that a exhaust fan was necessary, so I turned the top fan in the rear to blow air out! The processor is running at 55 degrees, and the pc is at 37. I guess the fans are working, becuase I use to have these temps with the side panel off. With the side panels on, my processor would be about 60ish and pc at 35ish. Thanks deimos for recommending to me that the video card was affecting my gaming. It was only after I cleaned the heatsink and fan on the video card that I could play.

[Codegen]

Can anybody suggest how I place the fans

Rear fan(s) should be exhaust (Blowing air out) and the front fan(s) should be sucking air in.

[terrybear]

good news then ....

now all ya gotta do is reverse that other rear fan to blow outward & then report your system temps.

But otherwise sounds like ya got it all fixed right now. :)

[PC-stuff]

This morning I cleaned the heatsink on the video card and turned the back 2 fans to blow air in. So then I had all 3 fans blowing air into my pc. I played madden for about an hour, and then paused it, and left for a few hours, came back and it was fine. When I closed the game, I got a message from MBM, that my processor was at 72 degrees! Then I realized that a exhaust fan was necessary, so I turned the top fan in the rear to blow air out! The processor is running at 55 degrees, and the pc is at 37. I guess the fans are working, becuase I use to have these temps with the side panel off. With the side panels on, my processor would be about 60ish and pc at 35ish. Thanks deimos for recommending to me that the video card was affecting my gaming. It was only after I cleaned the heatsink and fan on the video card that I could play.

Q: Why not just run with a side panel off no need to installl fans that suck dust into your machine?

[Codegen]

Q: Why not just run with a side panel off no need to installl fans that suck dust into your machine?

Maybe he has kids that'll go "What happens if I do this..."

[radeonboy]

Too much dust on your CPU heatsink.

x3 :arrowu:

[maebach]

Q: Why not just run with a side panel off no need to installl fans that suck dust into your machine?

Becuase I have cousins that come over, they're 5 and 3, so playing with a box with lights everywhere is probably amusing. . .

[maebach]

I found this piece of metal, on my heatsink when I was cleaning it. It was where it touches the processor. I peeled it off and cleaned underneath it. IS this piece connecting the heatsink to the processor? Since I took it off, does that mean that they're not touching?

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/1967/dsc02439qo7.th.jpg (http://img115.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02439qo7.jpg)

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/6380/dsc02440sg6.th.jpg (http://img72.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02440sg6.jpg)

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/4530/dsc02441wj6.th.jpg (http://img72.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02441wj6.jpg)

Pics of Updated PC, after the clean:

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/3247/dsc02447ee7.th.jpg (http://img177.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02447ee7.jpg)

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/3693/dsc02448nx3.th.jpg (http://img118.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02448nx3.jpg)

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/2325/dsc02445fn5.th.jpg (http://img177.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02445fn5.jpg)

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/1925/dsc02446ef5.th.jpg (http://img501.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02446ef5.jpg)

I know that putting the wires on the top, would help, but I'd need alot of time for that.Im also thiniking of changing the IDE bands to wires. Would that make a difference?

[radeonboy]

I found this piece of metal, on my heatsink when I was cleaning it. It was where it touches the processor. I peeled it off and cleaned underneath it. IS this piece connecting the heatsink to the processor? Since I took it off, does that mean that they're not touching?



Good thing you took it off because its not supposed to be there! Damn idiots who made the computer didnt take it off. We've had same incidents when working with MDG computers at the computer place I work at. I swear I recall only seeing this type of thing with the MDG computers we get in for repair.

Edit: Maybe they do it on purpose...?

[maebach]

Good thing you took it off because its not supposed to be there! Damn idiots who made the computer didnt take it off. We've had same incidents when working with MDG computers at the computer place I work at. I swear I recall only seeing this type of thing with the MDG computers we get in for repair.

Edit: Maybe they do it on purpose...?

Good, I was worried that the piece was needed, for the heatsink and processor to0 touch.

[Forsaken_Angel]

any changes after you removed the metal piece? have you thought about checking your psu's voltage rails? 90% of the time when its not heat its a unstable psu. radeon 9800's take quite a bit of power which could explain why your locking up when gaming, and not on cpu stress tests. run another stress test and keep an eye on your 12V, 5V, and 3.3V rails, if they vary more then 10% it could be your psu. also how big is your psu? when your playing a game feel your radeons heatsink, being careful not to touch the actual card. you should be able to tell if its too hot with your finger, if you cant keep it on the hs comfortably your vid card is overheating. do you happen to have the 9800xt? if i remember correctly they have an internal temp sensor so you can monitor that. try taking one of the case fans and blowing it just at the video card heatsink while gaming, if it doesnt crash at that time you know you need to replace the stock hs/f.

[jaigandhi5]

i think a:
thermal paste not applied properly, possibly broke a clip while removing heatsink therefore heatsink not in place properly

b:
psu

c:
video card

and im pretty sure its a because i know maebach personally and he's not very smart when it comes to computer hardware :lol:

[MWM]

Take off both sides and have a big external fan next to it blowing air through it.

It looks crummy but it works :)

[Deimos]

This morning I cleaned the heatsink on the video card and turned the back 2 fans to blow air in. So then I had all 3 fans blowing air into my pc. I played madden for about an hour, and then paused it, and left for a few hours, came back and it was fine. When I closed the game, I got a message from MBM, that my processor was at 72 degrees! Then I realized that a exhaust fan was necessary, so I turned the top fan in the rear to blow air out! The processor is running at 55 degrees, and the pc is at 37. I guess the fans are working, becuase I use to have these temps with the side panel off. With the side panels on, my processor would be about 60ish and pc at 35ish. Thanks deimos for recommending to me that the video card was affecting my gaming. It was only after I cleaned the heatsink and fan on the video card that I could play.

You're welcome. Glad to hear the problem is fixed. That metal thing, is the foil that has to be removed from heatsink when putting it on.

my cousin's video card was so full of dog hair and dust it prevented the fan from spinning at all. Heck, it was a nightmare just FINDING the video card in the web of dust bunnies. Like Indiana Jones Temple of Doom.. except dust/hair instead of bugs.

[CompWizrd]

Well, if you have 50C with stock heatsink and P4 2.4B thats pretty normal. I wouldn't worry about it.
my 2.4B idles at 33, mb at 28, nothing special in the setup.. room temp is currently 23.5C

It's an Antec Sonata case which isn't known for the best airflow, I have the 120mm fans connected to the fan only connector.

[Deimos]

my 2.4B idles at 33, mb at 28, nothing special in the setup.. room temp is currently 23.5C

It's an Antec Sonata case which isn't known for the best airflow, I have the 120mm fans connected to the fan only connector.

First of all, I was refering to load temperature. Only processors to idle anywhere remotely close to 50C are PentiumD/Prescott.

As faras the temperature, a huge factor ofcourse is the heatsink. Likewise, the ambient temperature. Sometimes I find the bragging right matches of who has lower temperature to be quite ridiculous. I mean, you dont really expect somebody in 35C Singapore weather to match the 30C somebody is getting in Finland (with artic ambient temps)? Its thermodynamically impossible too (heat source will ALWAYS be hotter than ambient).

And believe it or not, DUST makes a HUGE difference. A little dirty heatsink, and its only a few degrees difference. But once the dust bunnies build up, it becomes like an isulative blanket, and the effective surface area is vastely reduced. Case in point, a P4 2.4B that I had running at nearly 70C!!

I know there are hundreds of evangelists that swear by it, but I dont think case airflow is really that important. To be more precise, I don't think its necessary to have more in/out fans than the PSU and perhaps one at the front. Too often people proudly proclaim they're buying 2, 3 even 4 fans, and cutting holes and this and that.

As long as the case isn't air-tight, and the hot air is trapped there, you should be fine.

[CameraBill]

Out of curiosity what PSU are you using? It looks generic.

Most generic PSUs have only one fan and the problem is compounded by the fact you have 2 hard drives 2 optical drives and light in there. Now the PSU is being burdened by 3 additional fans.

Also if the case is under the desk you can move it to where there is more airflow. The case itself dissappates alot of heat.

[Deimos]

Out of curiosity what PSU are you using? It looks generic.

Most generic PSUs have only one fan and the problem is compounded by the fact you have 2 hard drives 2 optical drives and light in there. Now the PSU is being burdened by 3 additional fans.

Also if the case is under the desk you can move it to where there is more airflow. The case itself dissappates alot of heat.

I sincerly doubt that ANY power supply for a computer made in the last 15 years would ever be even remotely close to being burdened by "additonal fans".

Fans are either 5V or 12V (or some have variable control). Fans use very little power, typically 0.13A, 0.17A or 0.25A and maybe as high as 0.5A.
12Vx0.5A = 6W (ex very high airflow 120mm fan)
12Vx0.17A=2W (ex 90mm high airflow fan I have infront of me).
Those fans with lower rotation, moderate airflow, and not vaccuum cleaner noisy are typically 5V models, and have power consumption that is about half.

So, for for a typical 300W power supply, to be "burdened" by "additional fans", there would have to be at least 20 really big fans with really big airflow, or 100 typical average case fans (ie using 100W worth.. still 200W left for system). Therefore, the sensible conclusion is that additional fans have minimal negligible impact. Go ahead and hook up 5, 10, 20,100 however many you want.

Hard drives.
Likewise there is horrible misconception amongst common people, and even worse amongst so called "knowledgable enthusiasts" regarding the power consumption of hard drives and optical drives. Some people like you panic that their 400W PSU wont be able to handle 4 drives reliably. First and foremost, hard drives use the absolute most power when they are spinning up at boot. When you are playing games, video editing, surfing etc.. the power consumption is considerably lower.. how much.. well like with the fans, it depends on the model. During intensive drive use, typically 8W-10W for your average 120GB to 320GB 7200rpm hard drive. And, as much as 12W for some 400GB+ models.

here are the figures:
http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/storage/hddpower.html

BTW: for the record, my brother runs a many as 8, 10 even a dozen hard drives from a 300W PSU.

So folks, once and for all, please stop panicing about power supplies.

[mau108]

ya id remove the fan, heatsink and processor and redo the thermal compound on it (clean all the thermal pad crap off with a blade and wipe it down with some rubbing alcy) and then apply arctic silver 5 (not too much, use an order credit card or the blade to spread it out evenly) and then clean the heatsink (blow all the dust out and i'd wash it after scraping the thermal pad off and dry it very thorougly)