Failed final = failed course in every faculty in Waterloo?

[ak47num1]

My friend and I were comparing the difference between the grading system in UToronto and UWaterloo and he asked me, "Does failing the final mean you failed the whole course even though your cumulative grade for the whole course is above 50?"

I cannot answer him, even though I know that for the Faculty of Math, you must pass the Finals to pass the whole course. Can anyone tell me if the other faculties are the same?

Thank you!

[supafly]

My friend and I were comparing the difference between the grading system in UToronto and UWaterloo and he asked me, "Does failing the final mean you failed the whole course even though your cumulative grade for the whole course is above 50?"

I cannot answer him, even though I know that for the Faculty of Math, you must pass the Finals to pass the whole course. Can anyone tell me if the other faculties are the same?

Thank you!

Nah some courses dont have these requirements I believe, I only know of CS (pass weighted avg of final/midterm) and Math (some, i'm not sure if all of them have this requirement.. I should know this by now but I dont :P )

I believe some of the arts courses might let ya through. I think it varies on a course to course or instructor to instructor basis.

Hope that helps!

[Rehan]

In UW Engineering, you can fail a final exam and still pass the course.

[gretzky99]

I cannot answer him, even though I know that for the Faculty of Math, you must pass the Finals to pass the whole course.

Wow, so if your average was like 95% going into the final exam and then you got 49% on the final, you would fail the entire course? :confused:
Thank god my university days are over with.... :)

[manlyputter]

In UW Engineering, you can fail a final exam and still pass the course.

This is sorta vague. It depends on course really, different professors tend to mark differently. For some courses the mark break down is different if you got below 50 on the exam (i.e. they may neglect any project or assignment marks).

[pebbles10]

I think it depends on the weight of your final exam. If your final exam is worth 50% of the final mark, then obviously you would have to pass the exam to pass the course (unless you have 100% going in).

Check the course calendar or registration handbook, it should be specified if the policy is 'failed final = failed course'.

[Rehan]

I think it depends on the weight of your final exam. If your final exam is worth 50% of the final mark, then obviously you would have to pass the exam to pass the course (unless you have 100% going in). Do they not teach math in school anymore? :razz:

If your final exam is worth 50% of the total mark, you could pass the course even with a 40% (failure) on the final exam if you have 60% or more on midterms/assignments/labs/etc.

In all of the engineering courses I took at UW, there wasn't a single one in which a failure on the final exam would have automatically meant a failure in the course.

[j3fan]

My friend and I were comparing the difference between the grading system in UToronto and UWaterloo and he asked me, "Does failing the final mean you failed the whole course even though your cumulative grade for the whole course is above 50?"

I cannot answer him, even though I know that for the Faculty of Math, you must pass the Finals to pass the whole course. Can anyone tell me if the other faculties are the same?

Thank you!

it really depends on course...some course have some special requirements in which you must pass the final exam to pass the course...other courses say that the weighted average between your midterm and final must be a passing mark, while others don't care....

[j3fan]

Do they not teach math in school anymore? :razz:

If your final exam is worth 50% of the total mark, you could pass the course even with a 40% (failure) on the final exam if you have 60% or more on midterms/assignments/labs/etc.

nah, they don't teach such simple math anymore...who needs simple math when everyone uses a calculator....it's an asumption that if university teaches complex math (such as calculus), they should now how to multiply and do all the other simple arithmetics...

[MizTEcK]

it really depends on course...some course have some special requirements in which you must pass the final exam to pass the course...other courses say that the weighted average between your midterm and final must be a passing mark, while others don't care....
university of toronto doesnt allow a course to be marked on a single evaluation

[awestruck]

I'm taking CS at UT and they have a thing for every CS course where you have to get at least 40% on the exam to pass the course.

[lkn4deals]

university of toronto doesnt allow a course to be marked on a single evaluation

not true...case in point...law school (undergrad), and also many graduate courses

[ian1386]

People here are right...CS courses generally have the 50% on final to pass rule (such as CS240, here: http://www.student.cs.uwaterloo.ca/~cs240/info.html), however not all courses, specifically arts classes, are like this (such as my music 100 class, where the final is only worth 30% and you can get 0% on the final and still pass the course).

Also, from what my GF has told me, all distanct education courses DO have the 50-on-final to pass, as there are no midterms and there's never any other face-to-face interaction.

[aquariaguy]

My friend and I were comparing the difference between the grading system in UToronto and UWaterloo and he asked me, "Does failing the final mean you failed the whole course even though your cumulative grade for the whole course is above 50?"

I cannot answer him, even though I know that for the Faculty of Math, you must pass the Finals to pass the whole course. Can anyone tell me if the other faculties are the same?

Thank you!

I don't think this is true for Science. Yea, some of the exams were 70% but that doesn't mean if you fail the exam you fail the course necessarily. It depends on the course and professor.

[Rehan]

Also, from what my GF has told me, all distanct education courses DO have the 50-on-final to pass, as there are no midterms and there's never any other face-to-face interaction. Distance education courses do have assignments, though, so it's not like the whole mark is based on the final exam. For example, this one (http://de.uwaterloo.ca/coursedetail.cfm?offerID=223) has a final worth 35%.

[ian1386]

Distance education courses do have assignments, though, so it's not like the whole mark is based on the final exam. For example, this one (http://de.uwaterloo.ca/coursedetail.cfm?offerID=223) has a final worth 35%.

Yes, however it doesn't say anything about needing to pass the exam, which is something I'm not sure about.

Either way...I think the only thing any of us can prove is that it really depends on the course :)

[convoluted]

Like people have said, it typically depends on the prof in the percentages.

There are courses where if you get below 50% in the final, then it becomes 100% of your grade regardless of previous work in the class.

[Rehan]

Yes, however it doesn't say anything about needing to pass the exam, which is something I'm not sure about.

Either way...I think the only thing any of us can prove is that it really depends on the course :) I would assume that for those courses where it applies, it would be clearly stated...like this: http://de.uwaterloo.ca/coursedetail.cfm?offerID=402
"it is normally necessary to pass the final examination to obtain a passing grade for the course."

[Bzji]

AFAIK, Electrical/Computer engineering at UW requires you get at least 40% on the final in order for midterm, assignment, lab to count in the course marking scheme. Otherwise, automatic fail in the course. Also, must have term average above 60%, if you get 55% on all your courses, automatic fail of term.

[at826]

in waterloo science, you have to pass the final to pass the course - i.e. the failing mark you got on the final exam will be your final grade

[aquariaguy]

in waterloo science, you have to pass the final to pass the course - i.e. the failing mark you got on the final exam will be your final grade

No it's not true. It just depends on the course.

Which courses are you talking about?

[purple_rabbit]

not true...case in point...law school (undergrad), and also many graduate courses


Actually he is, I think there is a bylaw which states a final exam cannot be less than 40 % and higher than 70% or something like that.

There is also a bylaw which states that the professor is obligated to have given at least 1 evaluation and marked it (assignment/project/midterm) before the official drop date.

At least this is for UT undergrad...

[divx]

Do they not teach math in school anymore? :razz:

If your final exam is worth 50% of the total mark, you could pass the course even with a 40% (failure) on the final exam if you have 60% or more on midterms/assignments/labs/etc.

In all of the engineering courses I took at UW, there wasn't a single one in which a failure on the final exam would have automatically meant a failure in the course.
ECE223 Digital Circuits with Prof C Kenning. Quote from him. "I honesty don't believe you should be able to pass a course when you failed the final. You must pass the final to pass this course".

[divx]

ECE in UW have 100% finals. On paper, it's 70% final, but they screw everyone on the midterm, which forces the final to be 100% effective.

[MizTEcK]

not true...case in point...law school (undergrad), and also many graduate courses

Both essays (or equivalent work) and examinations (including term tests) are normally required for standing in courses. In courses where only one form of evaluation is used, a single piece of work cannot count for all of the final mark.

from UT rules and regulations

[squall458]

not true...case in point...law school (undergrad), and also many graduate courses
isnt law school postgrad? not sure why you put undergrad in brackets beside law school.

[ian1386]

ECE in UW have 100% finals. On paper, it's 70% final, but they screw everyone on the midterm, which forces the final to be 100% effective.

This hasn't been the case in the 3 ECE courses I've taken so far...midterms aren't usually that bad.

[divx]

This hasn't been the case in the 3 ECE courses I've taken so far...midterms aren't usually that bad.
Until you meet Lipshitz :lol:

[PQpine413]

QUOTE=pebbles10]I think it depends on the weight of your final exam. If your final exam is worth 50% of the final mark, then obviously you would have to pass the exam to pass the course (unless you have 100% going in).

Check the course calendar or registration handbook, it should be specified if the policy is 'failed final = failed course'.[/QUOTE]

even if you dont have 100% going into the final you can still pass the course if you fail the final exam.

failing the exam doesn't necessarily mean you get 0%, even though it can be a possibility. if the exam is 50%, and you're going in with lets say 30% of your final mark going in, you really just need 40% on your final to get your 20% of the final mark, where you'll still pass with a 50.

most CS courses if you fail the final, you'll get the mark you got on your final as your final mark hence giving you a failing final mark no matter what you were going in with.

anyhow, most faculties at UW have a passing average of 60 or more anyways, so just passing the course relaly doesn't help you too much. it's better than failing since you can only have 2 failed courses accumilated.

so yea..don't fail, probation sucks

[at826]

No it's not true. It just depends on the course.

Which courses are you talking about?

sorry for not making it more specific.. but i know bio you have to (cuase i'm a bio major and taken alot of the bio courses) and i think its the same for chem (well the 100 and 200 levels).. but not totally sure about physics cuase i never took any :)

[mingming]

In UW ECE, it depends on the course.

Usually, for the programming courses you need to pass the final to count the assignments/projects. Their belief is if you can do the projects, you should pass the final.

Circuit courses have a 40% rule for your labs to count.

I remmeber those calc courses need 40% final exam too.

But other than that, unless it's written in the course outline or the prof said so, you dont have to pass the final to pass the course.

I've once got an Under-40% in a final, and still passed the course since my midterm mark was 90%.

[lkn4deals]

isnt law school postgrad? not sure why you put undergrad in brackets beside law school.


because law school is an undergrad degree (LLB - Bachelor of Laws) at most universities

[Pat Ophelia]

In all of the engineering courses I took at UW, there wasn't a single one in which a failure on the final exam would have automatically meant a failure in the course.
Really?? That's surprising. I thought Universities would have high standards.

Even at the lowly Seneca College if you get less than 50% on the term prior to the final OR if you get less than 50% on the final you fail the course. Both the term and final must be passed.

[aquariaguy]

sorry for not making it more specific.. but i know bio you have to (cuase i'm a bio major and taken alot of the bio courses) and i think its the same for chem (well the 100 and 200 levels).. but not totally sure about physics cuase i never took any :)

Which ones?
I don't remember Biol 373, Biol 302, Biol 303, Biol 447, Biol 450, Biol 370 being like that... ?
Not sure about chem, but it wasn't like that when I took Chem 120,123. Physics 111,112 might've been like that. I know Math 127,128 was like that, sucked !!!

[aquariaguy]

Really?? That's surprising. I thought Universities would have high standards.

Even at the lowly Seneca College if you get less than 50% on the term prior to the final OR if you get less than 50% on the final you fail the course. Both the term and final must be passed.

Maybe because it's easier to pass at Seneca, so they have "strict" (if you want to call it that) standards.

I know that if some of the upper year labs (faculty of science) were like that, it would've been devastating, cuz they are so frickin hard! (ie. Phys 121,112)

[nanirina]

Failed final != failed course in every faculty.

In CS, yeah, in pretty much all courses, you have to pass the final.
Not so in a lot of math courses, arts courses, etc --> example, French courses, Acts 231, etc.

[divx]

yeah it all depends on the course/prof, don't ask us, ask your prof

[at826]

Which ones?
I don't remember Biol 373, Biol 302, Biol 303, Biol 447, Biol 450, Biol 370 being like that... ?
Not sure about chem, but it wasn't like that when I took Chem 120,123. Physics 111,112 might've been like that. I know Math 127,128 was like that, sucked !!!

for biol373, 303 and i believe 370 (same prof as 373) you need to pass the final to pass the course.. and same goes for chem120.. i haven't taken the other biols (400 level courses) you mentioned yet!

[jayslay]

i hate UW science, majority of the courses are always 70% or 60% weight on the final. However that doesnt mean you fail if you fail the final, but why do you weight so much on teh final, its rediculous. they are jus too lazy to give assignmtents or more midterms its soo frustrating

i've heard UT, MAC and Queens usually have 30 or 40% finals, which in my opinon is so much better.

[divx]

i hate UW science, majority of the courses are always 70% or 60% weight on the final. However that doesnt mean you fail if you fail the final, but why do you weight so much on teh final, its rediculous. they are jus too lazy to give assignmtents or more midterms its soo frustrating

i've heard UT, MAC and Queens usually have 30 or 40% finals, which in my opinon is so much better.
Switch to UT if it makes that much of a difference. I like courses with 100% final, make it more ..... "exciting"

Either way, it doesn't matter when you know your stuff, if you don't, you gona be screwed anyway, sooner or later.

[mingming]

i hate UW science, majority of the courses are always 70% or 60% weight on the final. However that doesnt mean you fail if you fail the final, but why do you weight so much on teh final, its rediculous. they are jus too lazy to give assignmtents or more midterms its soo frustrating

i've heard UT, MAC and Queens usually have 30 or 40% finals, which in my opinon is so much better.

30-40% finals mean you have to work hard consistently all term. I like the 70-60% final better. Just focus for a week and you'll get a good mark.

[divx]

30-40% finals mean you have to work hard consistently all term. I like the 70-60% final better. Just focus for a week and you'll get a good mark.
100% it's all or nothing man! Raise the stakes when you gamble your degree.

Another good thing is no hard feeling on projects, got 50% on it? no prob, won't affect your mark one bit ;) Failed another lousy quiz? no prob, it's not going to your final mark. :twisted:

[aquariaguy]

for biol373, 303 and i believe 370 (same prof as 373) you need to pass the final to pass the course.. and same goes for chem120.. i haven't taken the other biols (400 level courses) you mentioned yet!

I'm guessing we had different profs. For 373 I had that lady prof that also taught 201 and got fired. 303 I had 2-profs from Guelph. 370 I had Neel (best teacher, nice guy).

[aquariaguy]

i hate UW science, majority of the courses are always 70% or 60% weight on the final. However that doesnt mean you fail if you fail the final, but why do you weight so much on teh final, its rediculous. they are jus too lazy to give assignmtents or more midterms its soo frustrating

i've heard UT, MAC and Queens usually have 30 or 40% finals, which in my opinon is so much better.

Nah, only the 100s have lots of that stuff. ie) Physics. Upper year courses are so laxed.

[at826]

100% it's all or nothing man! Raise the stakes when you gamble your degree.

i know some (science) profs (at uw) that will allow you to write what the final's originally worth (e.g. 60%) or write at 100% final.. so at the end, whatever outcome that gives you the higher mark will be your final grade

[mingming]

The 30% exam is back in high school, when there would be weekly tests, assignments, homework checks, participation marks, projects. So they have lots to base their students on. Also there were attendance checks and if you skipped too much, you'd lose marks.

In university, the student base is too large to evaluate on so many things. most of the time, the prof wont even know your name and you are sometimes in a class of 100+. It would be crazy for them to give out such elaborate marking schemes where you do so many assignments, quizzes, etc. Also, without knowing all the students, and no attendance, the only fair and logical way to evaluate them is through an exam.

[Nyte]

100% it's all or nothing man! Raise the stakes when you gamble your degree.

Another good thing is no hard feeling on projects, got 50% on it? no prob, won't affect your mark one bit ;) Failed another lousy quiz? no prob, it's not going to your final mark. :twisted:

It would be interesting to see if you still think that in 4 months when you have your exams for next term.

[mingming]

It would be interesting to see if you still think that in 4 months when you have your exams for next term.

Hey, it's been my motto, I've survived the 100% finals for the past 4 yrs!

[Dr_luv]

Quick reply so forgive the typos.

At Western, if you fail the final exam, i.e less than 50% on the final. You have failed the course. For example, if you are taking an ece course that is weighted as follows: assignments = 10%, labs = 10%, midterm = 30%, final report = 10% final exam = 40%.

If you happen to get a 49% average on the final exam , but you scored perfect on all the rest ( assignments, labs, midterms and final report) , you will find that you have failed the course. ( I think it appears as a 48% on your transcript, I'm not sure about this, every thing else I am.)

Another example would be if there was no final report and the final exam was worth 50% and you scored perfect on everything else, but fail the final exam, you still fail.

I had a lot of friends who did really well during the school semester and got a tard too relaxed for the final and had to retake the course the following year.

This only works for courses under the Faculty of Engineering, i.e if you are in Eng but taking an applied math course ( Faculty of science) all you need to do is get a greater than 50% average.

EDIT: There were always other such caveats, e.g. passing your lab courses. (some courses required more 60% or more). In such a case if you failed the lab component but passed the course you would have to retake the lab component.

[divx]

It would be interesting to see if you still think that in 4 months when you have your exams for next term.
I've had 100% final exams for the past 3 terms already, I'm not gona think any different next term.

[dmdsoftware2]

Really?? That's surprising. I thought Universities would have high standards.

Even at the lowly Seneca College if you get less than 50% on the term prior to the final OR if you get less than 50% on the final you fail the course. Both the term and final must be passed.
It's comparing apples and oranges. I once had a 4th year course where everyone failed the final exam (there were about 70 students in the course). It wasn't that the student's were stupid, but it was killer exam.

So, with your logic, everyone should fail to keep standards up?

[divx]

It's comparing apples and oranges. I once had a 4th year course where everyone failed the final exam (there were about 70 students in the course). It wasn't that the student's were stupid, but it was killer exam.

So, with your logic, everyone should fail to keep standards up?
they are not allowed to fail everyone, rest assured.

[mingming]

There's kind of this unofficial rule for profs that a class average should be around 70. So if the entire class does bad, they should bell it.

[Sylvestre]

i've heard UT, MAC and Queens usually have 30 or 40% finals, which in my opinon is so much better.

albiet it was some time ago for me, I can assure you that that's NOT the case for Queens. For year 1 & 2, most finals were 75% or higher. For 3rd and 4th, they fell but never below 50%.

[dyangu]

Finals in engineering at UW are worth at least 50%, usually around 65%. However, some (evil) profs have screwed marking schemes like:
if exam<40%, then final grade = exam grade

Of course, even if you pass everything, you have to repeat the whole term if your average is below 60%

[2112]

Some courses at University of Ottawa require you to get a 50% average between the midterm and the final......so you can get a 51% on the midterm and a 49% on the final and still pass the course.

[adehbone]

UW has this policy that exams are the best way to test students....

most math classes have atleast a 50% final....some actsci and stats have a 100% final....my international Econ this term even had a flippin 70% final!....my other econs have 60% finals...i havent had a final worth less than 40% yet :S

when it comes to CS...everything after the midterm is usually the tough materil...that is why you must pass the final to pass the course......similar idea in some math courses....

thank god for the new 2.5 hr exams

[simms]

UT has a 40% policy usually.

[divx]

UW has this policy that exams are the best way to test students....

most math classes have atleast a 50% final....some actsci and stats have a 100% final....my international Econ this term even had a flippin 70% final!....my other econs have 60% finals...i havent had a final worth less than 40% yet :S

when it comes to CS...everything after the midterm is usually the tough materil...that is why you must pass the final to pass the course......similar idea in some math courses....

thank god for the new 2.5 hr exams
yes, that half hour makes a huge difference!