Age Discrimination in Restaurants? [Archive]

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convoluted

Jul 29th, 2006, 02:30 PM

I want to know if someone can clarify this in terms of ordering food. I want to know if it is technically illegal for an establishment to refuse to offer something because it is on a kid's menu and one is over age?

I find McDonald's and other fast food places do not care, but I was at an Ikea and before, I've seen seniors order the kids meal, but I went to another Ikea, in which I was refused and they stated it is only for 10 and under.

I'm also wondering in terms of the senior's discounts, but the products are offered just at a different price. Meanwhile, often, kid's meals are exclusive to that particular menu and not available in the regular menu.

Does anyone know any concrete facts about this?

farooq7

Jul 29th, 2006, 02:47 PM

aw3s0me

Jul 29th, 2006, 02:54 PM

not sure about restaurants, but i know offering different prices in terms of age isn't considered discrimination. damnit we learned about this in school, can't remember what its called but its perfectly fine.

ive actually ordered something from the kids menu at kelseys and they gave it to me..

convoluted

Jul 29th, 2006, 03:17 PM

Well you can think of this just like any other business, their always is age discrimination, Eg: Going to the movie theatres, prices are more for adults, going to the swimming pool, going skating, going just about anywhere.

Yes but I'm wondering if something is not offered on an adult menu, thus am I denied the opportunity completely to purchase the item based on age; is that illegal? And really, in 90% of the cases, the one making the purchase is an adult, but merely is accompanied by someone younger.

SkiLLz

Jul 29th, 2006, 03:19 PM

Just buy something on the grown-up menu and stop complaining.

najibs

Jul 29th, 2006, 03:33 PM

There's a reason why it's called a KIDS menu. When you go to an amusement park or a zoo, and you're over 12, you don't get the under 12 price, do you?

How about instead of acting like a child, you grow up, and order something from the grown up menu?

And if you're that cheap, then don't worry, once you get to 60, you'll get your Senior discounts.

chickenbones

Jul 29th, 2006, 04:02 PM

It's a private business, therefore they do not have to offer you anything therefore this is not illegal.

TN_

Jul 29th, 2006, 04:07 PM

It's a private business, therefore they do not have to offer you anything therefore this is not illegal.

Ontario Human Rights Commission
When you are unjustifiably treated differently because of your age, that's age discrimination. Age is a protected ground under the Ontario Human Rights Code (the "Code"). This means that you cannot be discriminated against because of your age either where you work, live, or go to get a service.

As a provider of services to the public:
you are responsible for meeting the particular needs of older persons. They may, for example, require more of your time be it in a doctor's office, a store, or even in using public transit services to get where they are going.

http://www.ohrc.on.ca/english/guides/age-discrimination.shtml

cwb27

Jul 29th, 2006, 04:10 PM

It's a Private Business, it's their rules, you don't like em... Leave.

cwb27

Jul 29th, 2006, 04:12 PM

Ontario Human Rights Commission
When you are unjustifiably treated differently because of your age, that's age discrimination. Age is a protected ground under the Ontario Human Rights Code (the "Code"). This means that you cannot be discriminated against because of your age either where you work, live, or go to get a service.

As a provider of services to the public:
you are responsible for meeting the particular needs of older persons. They may, for example, require more of your time be it in a doctor's office, a store, or even in using public transit services to get where they are going.

http://www.ohrc.on.ca/english/guides/age-discrimination.shtml

So according this, anyone who asks to buy a kids ticket for a movie theatre, or amusement park, etc... and is told they're too old to purchase that ticket is being discriminated against?? Hmmmm, something doesn't sound right here.

It's called rules, companies, organizations, etc... have them. Some people don't like them so they try and play the discrimination card.

najibs

Jul 29th, 2006, 04:14 PM

So according this, anyone who asks to buy a kids ticket for a movie theatre, or amusement park, etc... and is told they're too old to purchase that ticket is being discriminated against?? Hmmmm, something doesn't sound right here.

Technically you're not being discriminated against, because you're not being treated 'different.' You're just being denied the purchase that's all. And, the seller of any product or service can deny you the sale of a product/service, at his/her discretion.

TN_

Jul 29th, 2006, 04:15 PM

im trying to look for more specific retail/services laws since im kind of interested in the subject :)

the keywords seem to be "unjustifiably treated differently" if they can justify the age limit etc it seems to be legal

cwb27

Jul 29th, 2006, 04:16 PM

convoluted

Jul 29th, 2006, 04:45 PM

Technically you're not being discriminated against, because you're not being treated 'different.' You're just being denied the purchase that's all. And, the seller of any product or service can deny you the sale of a product/service, at his/her discretion.

If that was to be based on race, or sex, then it would be discrimination? How is it any different because it is based on age?

And if the seller of a product denies service based on the race or sex, it's okay because it's up to their discretion?

najibs

Jul 29th, 2006, 04:50 PM

If that was to be based on race, or sex, then it would be discrimination? How is it any different because it is based on age?

And if the seller of a product denies service based on the race or sex, it's okay because it's up to their discretion?

So then why don't you go to the TTC next time you buy a metropass and DEMAND the child or senior rate? Why don't you go to an airline, and tell them you want to fly for free, because children under 2 are allowed to fly for free? Why don't you go to the zoo or amusement park and demand the child rate?

A KIDS menu is for KIDS. You're not a KID, therefore you are not entitled to eat from the kids menu. It's simple. Evena KID would understand that.

convoluted

Jul 29th, 2006, 05:00 PM

So then why don't you go to the TTC next time you buy a metropass and DEMAND the child or senior rate? Why don't you go to an airline, and tell them you want to fly for free, because children under 2 are allowed to fly for free? Why don't you go to the zoo or amusement park and demand the child rate?

A KIDS menu is for KIDS. You're not a KID, therefore you are not entitled to eat from the kids menu. It's simple. Evena KID would understand that.

So you are merely accepting of it, rather than trying to find a reasonable reason as to why it exists... Much like there was a black section on the back of the bus, and a white section in the front...

My issue is that I have had rather arbiturary decisions at some establishments, such as seniors ordering from the kids menu, or individuals with developmental disabilities are seemingly allowed, so are the establishments actually allowed to this or not.

And as I have stated before, different costs for the same services are often reasonable and justifiable, but what about services that are exclusive to a particular group?

najibs

Jul 29th, 2006, 05:06 PM

My issue is that I have had rather arbiturary decisions at some establishments, such as seniors ordering from the kids menu, or individuals with developmental disabilities are seemingly allowed, so are the establishments actually allowed to this or not.

Kids, and seniors generally have a low appetite compared to adults, so I don't see how it is wrong to allow seniors to order from a kids menu. But I am assuming you are an adult between 18-40. THe way I see it, anal people like you are always trying to push the limits and getting exveryone to make exceptions for you. Accept the fact that you are not a child, and thertefore should not be ordering form the child's menu, that's really all there is to it.

You're the type of person, that when you become a senior at age 60, you'll probably demand a lower 'sernior rate' even at places that don't have senior discounts.

convoluted

Jul 29th, 2006, 05:18 PM

Kids, and seniors generally have a low appetite compared to adults, so I don't see how it is wrong to allow seniors to order from a kids menu. But I am assuming you are an adult between 18-40. THe way I see it, anal people like you are always trying to push the limits and getting exveryone to make exceptions for you. Accept the fact that you are not a child, and thertefore should not be ordering form the child's menu, that's really all there is to it.

You're the type of person, that when you become a senior at age 60, you'll probably demand a lower 'sernior rate' even at places that don't have senior discounts.

As quoted by you earlier, "A KIDS menu is for KIDS." Seniors are not kids. But they're okay by you to decide who should or who should not be allowed to order.

But anyways, does anyone have further evidence to conclude an establishment has the authority to deny specific services based on age?

najibs

Jul 29th, 2006, 05:30 PM

But anyways, does anyone have further evidence to conclude an establishment has the authority to deny specific services based on age?

And if they don't what are you going to do? Act like a child and print out the evidence and go show it to that place, or report them? :lol:

Wulf

Jul 29th, 2006, 06:19 PM

Much like there was a black section on the back of the bus, and a white section in the front...

That's pretty dramatic... :lol: I don't think so... kids menus are aimed at families with kids. Mom and Dad pay full price and they get a break on the price of the kids food. Now if the whole family order kids-size chicken nuggets with pop and scoop of ice cream and threaten to sue then the whole process will be discontinued.

Could mean the end of the happy meal my friend...

najibs

Jul 29th, 2006, 06:24 PM

That's pretty dramatic... :lol: I don't think so... kids menus are aimed at families with kids. Mom and Dad pay full price and they get a break on the price of the kids food. Now if the whole family order kids-size chicken nuggets with pop and scoop of ice cream and threaten to sue then the whole process will be discontinued.

Could mean the end of the happy meal my friend...

I doubt it. One bonehead filing a complaint won't be enough to justify paying for an investigation.

Wulf

Jul 29th, 2006, 06:25 PM

I doubt it. One bonehead filing a complaint won't be enough to justify paying for an investigation.

Bonehead... that was the word I was looking for... thanks

masterhapposai

Jul 29th, 2006, 07:02 PM

Wulf

Jul 29th, 2006, 08:04 PM

plymouthhater

Jul 29th, 2006, 08:28 PM

The flip side of this is the fact that my 2 sons (11 & 14) get insulted if the waitress or waiter puts a kiddie menu down in front of them.

My 14 yr old eats more than I do :lol:

Montague

Jul 29th, 2006, 08:37 PM

Why does this thread remind me of the Seinfeld episode where Kramer takes karate lessons - against other kids! :lol:

"Kramer: Movie?

Jerry: Yeah, you in?

Kramer: No, no, no, I can't. I got my martial arts class.

George: George is going to the movies! (exits)

Jerry: (to Kramer) So how's your karate class going?

Kramer: (pronouncing it "kar-ah-tay") Karate, Jerry. Karate. The lifetime pursuit of balance and harmony.

Jerry: ...But with punching and kicking.

Kramer: Jerry, karate is not here (pointing to the ground). It's here (points to head), and here (points to chest), and here (makes a circle with his hands).

Jerry: Alright, I gotta go to the airport to pick up Elaine.

Kramer: What, she's been away?

Jerry: She's been in Mexico for six weeks.

Kramer: No, I really think you're wrong. We just went to the fireworks the other day.

Jerry: That was July 4th!

---------------------------------------------------------------

Kramer: Hey. (notices Elaine) What's wrong?

Elaine: Oh, Peterman ran off to Burma, and now he wants me to run the catalog.

Kramer: Where?

Jerry: Myanmar.

Kramer: The discount pharmacy?

Elaine: Well, I'm just gonna tell him no. I can't run the catalog.

Kramer: Whoa, whoa. Can't? When did that word enter your vocabulary? What, is the job too difficult? (Jerry nods) What, you don't have enough experience? (Jerry shakes his head) Oh, you're not smart enough? (Jerry shakes his head) Where's your confidence? (Jerry shrugs his shoulders) Look, Elaine, let me tell you a story. When I first studied karate...

Elaine: Karate?

Kramer: Yeah, karate. I had no support. Not from him, not from Newman, no one. The first time I sparred with an opponent, I was terrified. My legs, they were like noodles. But then I looked inside, and I found my katra.

Elaine: Katra?

Kramer: Yeah, your spirit, your, uh, being. The part of you that says, "Yes, I can!"

Jerry: Sammy Davis had it.

Kramer: So I listened to my katra and now I'm dominating the dojo. I'm class champion.

Elaine: Well, you know, I, I have watched Peterman run the company.

Kramer: Sure you have.

Elaine: I know how to do it. Pair of pants, a stupid story, a huge markup. I can do that.

Kramer: You follow your katra, and you can do anything. (leads her to the door) Now get out of here.

Elaine: (excitedly) Okay.

[Kramer slams the door behind her.]

Kramer: That kid is gonna be all right.

Jerry: No, she's not.

[There's a knock at Jerry's door.]

Joey: Come on, Kramer!

Kramer: Hey there.

Joey: Come on. Mom's down in the car.

Kramer: Okay, Joey.

[Joey exits.]

Jerry: You guys both have class at the same time?

Kramer: No, we're in the same class.

Jerry: What do you mean you're in the same class?

Kramer: He almost beat me.

Jerry: Kramer, you're fighting children?!

Kramer: We're all at the same skill level, Jerry.

Jerry: He's nine years old! You don't need karate, you can just wring his neck!

[Car horn honks.]

Kramer: I got carpool. (exits)

--------------------------------------------------------

Kramer: Thanks for the juice box, Mrs. Z.

Joey: Hey, could we stop for ice cream on the way home, mom?

Mrs. Zanfino: Mmm, I don't know...

[The kids begin pleading, so Kramer joins in.]

Mrs. Zanfino: All right.

Kids & Kramer: Yay!

-----------------------------------------

Sensei: Are you prepared for kumite?

Kramer & Joey: Yes, sensei.

Sensei: Fight stance.

[Kramer & Joey assume fight stance.]

Sensei: Hydjama! Begin!

[Kramer then frantically makes several karate hand motions, intimidating Joey. What follows is a montage of sequences featuring Kramer challenging his class. He grabs an opponent by the foot and flips him over; knocks one out with a simple karate chop to the head; has another turned upside down being shaken violently; drags another along the floor; and chases several at once.]

Sensei: (raising Kramer's arm) Winner!

[The other kids bow their heads in disgrace.]

------------------------------------------------------------------

Elaine: Kramer!

Kramer: Oh, hey.

Elaine: What are you doing?

Kramer: Oh, well, I-I-I'm dominating.

Elaine: You never said you were fighting children.

Kramer: Well, it's not the size of the opponent, Elaine, it's, uh, the ferocity.

Elaine: This is what you used to build me up? This is where you got all that stupid katra stuff?

Kramer: No, no. That's from, uh, Star Trek III... The Search for Spock.

Elaine: Search... for Spock?!

Kramer: Yeah, I know Jerry will tell you that The Wrath of Khan is the better picture, but for me, I always...

Elaine: (pushes him) You doofus!

----------------------------------------------------

Kramer: I thought you said your mom was meeting us in the alley.

Joey: She had a little change of plans.

[Children emerge from various places in the alley, to ambush Kramer.]

Kramer: What's going on? Hey, Timmy, Clara. That was some kind of workout we had tonight, huh?

Girl: Now we finish it.

[Kramer tries to escape up the fire escape ladder, but the kids drag him down.]

Kramer: Aah! Aah! Mama!

--------------------------------------------------

Kramer: God!

Jerry: What happened to you?

Kramer: Whew! I got whooped. You should have seen the rage in their little eyes. And those tiny little fists of fury. Oh. (notices the Urban Sombrero) What is that?

Jerry: It's the new cover of the J. Peterman Catalog. It is Elaine's choice. Let's congratulate her.

Kramer: Oh I see. (Elaine walks up to him) Woof!

Elaine: (pointing a finger accusingly at Kramer) You! This is all your fault! You told me I could run the company!

Kramer: Well, then I was way off!

Elaine: Well, I'll see ya... (exits)
__________________
Jerry:Kramer, you're fighting children?!
Kramer:We're all at the same skill level, Jerry. It's not the size of the opponent, it's, uh, the ferocity. "

CRXGSR

Jul 29th, 2006, 09:01 PM

This reminds me of the "ladies night" discrimination thing that was happening in New Jersey. Someone finally complained that it was made a law that they couldn't discriminate against the men!

The End of "Ladies' Night" in New Jersey:
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/grossman/20040615.html

and from USATODAY:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-06-04-ladies-night-scorn_x.htm

I think this age discrimination is the same thing! All we need is someone to step up and speak out against it!

convoluted

Jul 29th, 2006, 09:48 PM

That's pretty dramatic... :lol: I don't think so... kids menus are aimed at families with kids. Mom and Dad pay full price and they get a break on the price of the kids food. Now if the whole family order kids-size chicken nuggets with pop and scoop of ice cream and threaten to sue then the whole process will be discontinued.

Could mean the end of the happy meal my friend...

I know, but my point was that just because something has a particular label, does not make it right.

As for happy meals, many establishments do allow anyone to order the kid's meals and do not put an age restriction, because it is a smaller sized portion.

najibs

Jul 29th, 2006, 10:03 PM

I know, but my point was that just because something has a particular label, does not make it right.

As for happy meals, many establishments do allow anyone to order the kid's meals and do not put an age restriction, because it is a smaller sized portion.

The reason is because McDOnald's is fast food. They have no way of controlling that you're going to actually give the happy meal to your kid. Imagine if you wanted to buy McD's for the kids on your way home, while you're driving. They can't say "No, we can't give you the happy meal because you have no kids in your car."

In restaurants it's different.

ClubberLang

Jul 29th, 2006, 10:12 PM

convoluted

Jul 29th, 2006, 10:13 PM

The reason is because McDOnald's is fast food. They have no way of controlling that you're going to actually give the happy meal to your kid. Imagine if you wanted to buy McD's for the kids on your way home, while you're driving. They can't say "No, we can't give you the happy meal because you have no kids in your car."

In restaurants it's different.

Yes, Ikea where you serve yourself is what I call a restaurant.

Ultimately, I'm trying to figure out where they indeed need to follow government regulation and where they have the power to enforce their own set of rules. If it is their own establishment to determine such rules, then should it not be only optional that a restaurant puts in wheelchair access ramps, or follow smoking bi-laws, if it is indeed a private over a public establishment.

Thanks for CRXGSR for actual input that is related to what I was talking about. Wonder about all the bars that advertise "ladies free until 10"...

najibs

Jul 29th, 2006, 10:18 PM

Yes, Ikea where you serve yourself is what I call a restaurant.

Ultimately, I'm trying to figure out where they indeed need to follow government regulation and where they have the power to enforce their own set of rules. If it is their own establishment to determine such rules, then should it not be only optional that a restaurant puts in wheelchair access ramps, or follow smoking bi-laws, if it is indeed a private over a public establishment.

Thanks for CRXGSR for actual input that is related to what I was talking about. Wonder about all the bars that advertise "ladies free until 10"...

What I don't understand is why you're getting all hyped up over something as ridiculous as you not being able to order from the kids menu because you're not a kid?

CRXGSR

Jul 29th, 2006, 10:52 PM

What I don't understand is why you're getting all hyped up over something as ridiculous as you not being able to order form the kids menu because you're not a kid?

Last time I was at a restaurant (like kelsey or something), I order a small pizza from the kids menu. They gave it to me, but said they were tagging on an extra charge because I was an adult. WTF is that?

Sash[DSL]

Jul 29th, 2006, 10:55 PM

Najibz is right. This may or may not be fair but for chirst's sake JUST LET IT GO. :)

Steeve Urkel

Jul 30th, 2006, 12:25 AM

he's right in this situation:

-kid's menu has apple pie
-adult's has lemon

you hate lemon, want apple, and don't get it.

While I can't remember this happening, it's a valid complaint, and I have seen kid's menu have lots of toys or other stuff that doesn't exist in other menus.

Usually if you're nice enough and tell the person at the Theatre/McD's or whatever that you're not very hungry you can sometimes get away w getting the kids menu.

if I buy food at the movies I usually get the kids combo.
I can barely finish the popcorn in that.......but if you';re a really big guy, it might look super cheap if you ask for a kids combo, then have a whole other meal or 2....

you're really not saving that much by getting a kids meal for someone with a "regular" or average appetite.
but if you want a small snack, it might be worth it...

RonyPal

Jul 30th, 2006, 01:07 AM

Again I can understand if there is something on the kids menu that perhaps you are interested in that is not available on the adult menu, However I'm sure if you speak rationally to the waitress, perhaps do a little sweetalk, and she'll hook you up. However if she does not and you are feeling in the mood for some friendly debate, feel free to ask for a sup and i'm sure he will allow you to order that one item. I order the happy meal at mcdonalds some times, but wouldnt get into too much of a fit if they didnt allow me to order it :)

angseu

Jul 30th, 2006, 01:14 AM

if you really want to eat off the kids menu.... tell them you had gastric bypass surgery and your stomach can only handle small portions or you'll be throwing up all over their restaurant. That will usually shut them up and just let you have the kids meal

gman

Jul 30th, 2006, 01:26 AM

Is it age discrimination? Yes, it is. Is it illegal? No, it is not. As far as I know, the law only cares about age discrimination in job market.

There is age discrimination everywhere. Bank gives special rate to children and senior. Drug stores has senior day. TTC has different ticket prices. There are senior homes. There is sick children hospital. There are movies that rate R. Children cannot buy smoke or beer.

How far do you want to make it "fair"?

Rembrandt100

Jul 30th, 2006, 01:39 AM

Technically you're not being discriminated against, because you're not being treated 'different.' You're just being denied the purchase that's all. And, the seller of any product or service can deny you the sale of a product/service, at his/her discretion.

This is not true. A few years ago a printer refused a printing job for a gay group only because they were gay. He was fined.

Dave

Tijuana

Jul 30th, 2006, 01:40 AM

gilboman

Jul 30th, 2006, 01:45 AM

stupidity in this thread is appalling.

so i guess military discount, corporate rates are all frowned upon as well? the whole economy and sales of products/services is based on price discrimination.

gman

Jul 30th, 2006, 01:45 AM

You should be allowed because your paying for it. A kids menu is just fod that is in smaller portions so your kids wont be stuck eating a half chicekn at swiss chalet. It is not really age descrimination but more of trying to get as much money as they can

That is not exactly true. The kids menu in Swiss Chalet has the size similiar to the size of Quarter Chicken. The difference is: the quarter chicken is more expensive and has one extra bun while the Kids' version is cheaper, no bun and includes one drink, one desert and one toy. The kids' version is a better deal and one can consider its size is bigger.

Sylvestre

Jul 30th, 2006, 09:45 AM

you know what's sad, people who think stupid things like this is discrimination.

People went through great pains to fight against all types of discrimination (colour, ethnicity, sex etc) to be treated as equals, and now you have morons who think they are being treated badly because they can't get a small milkshake or whatever. yeah, that's really on par with blacks being denied service, orientals held in camps during WW2, women being raped and not able to find justice...

sheesh, what's this world coming to?

gilboman

Jul 30th, 2006, 10:30 AM

people seem to think all discrimination is not right which is not true.

i mean does a daycare discriminating against hiring convicted pedophiles cause t hem to whine as well? how bout hell's angel's members being allowed to be in the police?

or being 19 to buy smokes/alcohol is discrimnation too?

get over it...it's not illegal to have price discrimination.