muslim question?

[kingfencer]

so i saw on tv, this united nation guy came to greet a family. he shook the guys hand and extended his hand to the wife, but the wife snubbed her, so muslim woman can't touch another man?

[tasamy]

It is for men and women ...
A man can not touch a woman except his wife ...
Some use gloves to avoid that but I do not know if it is correct !!
so it not only women.

[cipher]

It is for men and women ...
A man can not touch a woman except his wife ...
Some use gloves to avoid that but I do not know if it is correct !!
so it not only women.

Is there a certain age when this becomes "law"? I can't see it applying to children.

[tasamy]

I think but not sure when the young woman starts to get her period (between the ages of 9 and 15) ... same for young men !

[Casanova]

I think but not sure when the young woman starts to get her period (between the ages of 9 and 15) ... same for young men !

young men get their period?!??! :confused:

[kingfencer]

this conversation has once again taken the turn for the worst..

[tasamy]

young men get their period?!??! :confused:
It is understood what I mean ...

[Casanova]

It is understood what I mean ...
:D fine, just pokin' fun at the choice of thw words. Take it easy

[MkmBandit]

In some muslim countries touching a woman can get your hand chopped off

[tasamy]

:D fine, just pokin' fun at the choice of thw words. Take it easy
OK man ... it was good ;)

[Casanova]

In some muslim countries touching a woman can get your hand chopped off
quote???link??

[tasamy]

In some muslim countries touching a woman can get your hand chopped off
Can you tell us which countries ? and your source ? :twisted:
and you did not tell if the touch with the accptance of the woman or the woman is forced :lol:
Have fun :)

[konfusion666]

I think my IQ has gone down a couple of points after reading this thread.

[lip1978]

Very religious Jews have the same type of rule. I don't think they have hand chopping though.

[MkmBandit]

lol its a muslim law not to disrespect a woman by touching her. It may not happen in present day, but its the mentality of every muslim to not do this. I'd hate to think what would happen to you in an arab prison for touching a woman the wrong way. My statement was only half serious.. they dont actually do that to you anymore

[Casanova]

lol its a muslim law not to disrespect a woman by touching her. It may not happen in present day, but its the mentality of every muslim to not do this. I'd hate to think what would happen to you in an arab prison for touching a woman the wrong way. My statement was only half serious.. they dont actually do that to you anymore
think the toilet hit the head one time too many! :D

[tasamy]

[QUOTE=MkmBandit]lol its a muslim law not to disrespect a woman by touching her.

It seems you are talking on enforced touch ... If that is the case any religion or any country law "should" prohibit touching a woman by enforcement :confused:

[MkmBandit]

[QUOTE=MkmBandit]lol its a muslim law not to disrespect a woman by touching her.

It seems you are talking on enforced touch ... If that is the case any religion or any country law "should" prohibit touching a woman by enforcement :confused:

im not exactly sure what youre asking me.. Dont over analize everything I say. I grew up in 3 different muslim countries. There were things that I was raised NOT to do. In both the countries I lived in with the exception of Pakistan, Hitting your wife or touching her disrespectfully would come as a grave consequence. I leave PK out because I didnt live there for long. And yes, i'm talking on enforced touch. But the OP's thread isnt talking about that so let it be

[batman321123]

men cant touch women other than their wife, and people they arent allowed to marry (sister, mom, etc.) and it's the other way around for women (brother, uncle, etc)...i think

[farooq7]

Very religious Jews have the same type of rule. I don't think they have hand chopping though.

It is very ironic but makes sense at the same time between the similarties of Muslims and Jews

Both Cant eat Pork
Both Must cover their heads
Both must have beards
Both have strict rules about women and men touching each other lol

yet they hate each other well i mean some of them do. I guess only opposites attract !! haha

[atforum]

I guess it has to do with conservative mindset rather than being a muslim or something. A lot of conservative hindus also refuse to touch another man... Even conservative christians in india do this...

:|

[gh05t]

I have also heard the one about not shaking hands with the hand you wipe you arse with. HTF does the other person know what hand you wipe with?

I imagine because of the exteremism under the religion that touching a woman's hand might be the equivalent to fondling her in the West.

and it's also part of the control mechanism built into the religion to keep women in their place.I am sure Western men are kicking themselves for not coming up with such a mechanism as it is likely to come in handy more often than not.

[plymouthhater]

I have a question:

When the women wear a berka or something that covers the face leaving only a small area for the eyes exposed. What do agencies that require photo id do?
Like Provincial Health Card, Driver's Lic. Passport etc.

[Rehan]

I have a question:

When the women wear a berka or something that covers the face leaving only a small area for the eyes exposed. What do agencies that require photo id do?
Like Provincial Health Card, Driver's Lic. Passport etc. They're allowed to show their faces for those purposes.

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503547012
Dr. Rif`at Fawzi, professor of Shari`ah at Cairo University, adds:

“It is permissible, as far as Shari`ah is concerned, to remove the niqab (face cover) for some genuine reasons such as identification or to get a photo for ID or driving license.

Therefore, if a Muslim woman is asked to remove the face cover to get a photo for such genuine reasons, then she is permitted to do so and Almighty Allah will forgive such matters. Added to that, she will keep the photo and such matters are pardoned for the facilitation of the affairs of people.”

[asim99]

They're allowed to show their faces for those purposes.

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503547012
i think it may depend on what 'school' one subscribes to, isn't it?

[Rehan]

i think it may depend on what 'school' one subscribes to, isn't it? Of course, like all issues of Islamic law. Almost all of them say that niqab (face covering) isn't even required.

[huzefa420]

i think it may depend on what 'school' one subscribes to, isn't it?

Ya... how does that guy just give out rulings like that. Though Im not saying I disagree with what he's saying.

I think it all has to do with ones intentions really.

[plymouthhater]

They're allowed to show their faces for those purposes.

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503547012

Thanks for the answer...now here's a related question:

So I understand that (based upon your answer) that they can have a photo taken for id - does that mean at the border, airport etc. a Canada Customs person, policeperson etc can request they lift the veil so that they can compare the photo to the person?

[Rehan]

Thanks for the answer...now here's a related question:

So I understand that (based upon your answer) that they can have a photo taken for id - does that mean at the border, airport etc. a Canada Customs person, policeperson etc can request they lift the veil so that they can compare the photo to the person? Yes, as far as I know. Here's another excerpt from the same page I linked above.
In response to your question, the prominent Muslim scholar, Sheikh Muhammad Iqbal Nadvi, Imam of Calgary Mosque, Alberta, Canada, and Former Professor at King Saud University, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, states:

“The issue of niqab (covering the whole body including the face and hands) is a basic condition of hijab (Muslim woman’s dress) in one school of fiqh, while it is recommended part of hijab in other schools. But what is agreed upon in all schools is to remove the niqab[i.e., to uncover the face]) for some genuine reasons such as identification or medical purpose.

The case you mentioned may be a reason to remove the niqab if the police officer is in need to do so, and there is a legal requirement by the law to show the face, regardless of the faith and this applies to all faiths.

However, this should not be a way of discrimination against a veiled woman just to tease her. Therefore, the sister has to insist on her right to use niqab and fight for this right IF she is targeted for discrimination and the law does not require showing the face.”

[BadDrafter]

and it's also part of the control mechanism built into the religion to keep women in their place.I am sure Western men are kicking themselves for not coming up with such a mechanism as it is likely to come in handy more often than not.

Islam was released hundreds of years after Christianity. Mohammed had looked at the flaws of that religion and made one with far fewer inconsistencies. Islam is a much tighter religion that is bulletproof. One of the byproducts were rules like this that can not be disputed.

[maebach]

It is very ironic but makes sense at the same time between the similarties of Muslims and Jews

Both Cant eat Pork
Both Must cover their heads
Both must have beards
Both have strict rules about women and men touching each other lol

yet they hate each other well i mean some of them do. I guess only opposites attract !! haha

great post, lol. EYesterday the weirdest thing happened. A muslim guy at my work had a veggie burger at our barbeque (held by company). I was wondering why, but I think the burgers might have had some pork in it. This one muslim guy at my school, his parents are cousins. IS marrying your family normal? Or were they stuck because nobody else wanted them?

[asim99]

great post, lol. EYesterday the weirdest thing happened. A muslim guy at my work had a veggie burger at our barbeque (held by company). I was wondering why, but I think the burgers might have had some pork in it.
many muslims eat only halal beef, and hence they may avoid eating non-halal beef burgers

This one muslim guy at my school, his parents are cousins. IS marrying your family normal? Or were they stuck because nobody else wanted them?
educate yourself, it wouldn't kill ya....marriage among cousins is a not a taboo in many cultures like it is in north america...idiot!

[maebach]

Islam was released hundreds of years after Christianity. Mohammed had looked at the flaws of that religion and made one with far fewer inconsistencies. Islam is a much tighter religion that is bulletproof. One of the byproducts were rules like this that can not be disputed.

Im guessing Mohammed took the flaws of the Vedas and Hinduism also (serious question, im not being sarcastic)? I knew someone who was doing a project on wife beatings for world religion. So I remember her mentioning ISlam. I googled and found these sights (I placed quotes for some good paragraphs in the sites). All of these sites are well written and dont look like some amateurs.:

bias against islam:

http://answering-islam.org/Silas/wife-beating.htm

Islam establishes a wife’s position with regards to her husband: he is her custodian. He takes care of her and she obeys him. If the wife persists in disobedience to her husband’s requests the Quran commands husbands to beat their wives. This is a brutal way to subject women. As in Saudi and other places it causes women to become almost de-humanized. By establishing that a women is not able to control herself, placing men as 'managers' of women, and further even commanding men to beat women, women are relegated to a servant’s position in life. Like a kept prized animal, women are people who are to be treated kindly, but severely disciplined when they get out of line. There is no way to justify this degrading, institutionalized, physical and psychological abuse of women allowed and commanded by Islam. Islam is not the solution, it is the problem.

somewhat in the middle:

http://www.islamonline.net/english/In_Depth/IslamWifeBeating/index.shtml

Dr. Muzammil H. Siddiqi and Dr. Jamal Badawi point out that the Prophet Muhammad never hit any female, and said that the best of men are those who do not hit their wives

pro-islamic:

http://www.twf.org/Library/WomenICJ.html

EVE'S FAULT ?

The three religions agree on one basic fact: Both women and men are created by God, The Creator of the whole universe. However, disagreement starts soon after the creation of the first man, Adam, and the first woman, Eve. The Judaeo-Christian conception of the creation of Adam and Eve is narrated in detail in Genesis 2:4-3:24. God prohibited both of them from eating the fruits of the forbidden tree. The serpent seduced Eve to eat from it and Eve, in turn, seduced Adam to eat with her. When God rebuked Adam for what he did, he put all the blame on Eve, "The woman you put here with me --she gave me some fruit from the tree and I ate it." Consequently, God said to Eve:

"I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband and he will rule over you."
To Adam He said:
"Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree .... Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat of it all the days of your life..."
The Islamic conception of the first creation is found in several places in the Quran, for example:
"O Adam dwell with your wife in the Garden and enjoy as you wish but approach not this tree or you run into harm and transgression. Then Satan whispered to them in order to reveal to them their shame that was hidden from them and he said: 'Your Lord only forbade you this tree lest you become angels or such beings as live forever.' And he swore to them both that he was their sincere adviser. So by deceit he brought them to their fall: when they tasted the tree their shame became manifest to them and they began to sew together the leaves of the Garden over their bodies. And their Lord called unto them: 'Did I not forbid you that tree and tell you that Satan was your avowed enemy?' They said: 'Our Lord we have wronged our own souls and if You forgive us not and bestow not upon us Your Mercy, we shall certainly be lost' " (7:19:23).
A careful look into the two accounts of the story of the Creation reveals some essential differences. The Quran, contrary to the Bible, places equal blame on both Adam and Eve for their mistake. Nowhere in the Quran can one find even the slightest hint that Eve tempted Adam to eat from the tree or even that she had eaten before him. Eve in the Quran is no temptress, no seducer, and no deceiver. Moreover, Eve is not to be blamed for the pains of childbearing. God, according to the Quran, punishes no one for another's faults. Both Adam and Eve committed a sin and then asked God for forgiveness and He forgave them both.




In another part of the Hebrew literature which is found in the Catholic Bible we read:
"No wickedness comes anywhere near the wickedness of a woman.....Sin began with a woman and thanks to her we all must die"


The last site is basically proving that Judaisim (sp) and Christianity are worst than Islam when it comes to women. Women were/are treated worst in those 2 religions. I like the first article the best. . .

[maebach]

educate yourself, it wouldn't kill ya....marriage among cousins is a not a taboo in many cultures like it is in north america...idiot!

I ask opne question and Im an idiot. . .

[Ferman]

educate yourself, it wouldn't kill ya....marriage among cousins is a not a taboo in many cultures like it is in north america...idiot!

That explains a lot!

[plymouthhater]

Marriage among cousins or clans or villages etc also contributes to the spread of genetic diseases as the gene pool narrows.

Tay Sachs disease among European Jews is a prime example.

Everybody assumes when they laugh about marriage among cousins, that the result is the equivalent of Jethro and they picture "trailer trash" etc.

This is not quite the case in many cultures. Picture a minority community in an isolated location back 100 years ago - needless to say, the choices for mates was somewhat limited and people took what they could get!

[asim99]

I ask opne question and Im an idiot. . .
no, i called you idiot because of this idiot opinion masked as a question: were they stuck because nobody else wanted them?

[Ferman]

Marriage among cousins or clans or villages etc also contributes to the spread of genetic diseases as the gene pool narrows.

Tay Sachs disease among European Jews is a prime example.

Maybe that's where the suicide bombing gene comes from..

[asim99]

Maybe that's where the suicide bombing gene comes from..
if it was true, you'd see a whole lot of suicide bombers in kentucky and alabama

[maebach]

no, i called you idiot because of this idiot opinion masked as a question: were they stuck because nobody else wanted them?

Im surprised I didnt get flamed for the spelling error

:lol:

if it was true, you'd see a whole lot of suicide bombers in kentucky and alabama

:lol: :lol:



Nobody's replied to my long post about women being beaten in islam. It took a whule to get that together.

[tasamy]

Islam was released hundreds of years after Christianity. Mohammed had looked at the flaws of that religion and made one with far fewer inconsistencies. Islam is a much tighter religion that is bulletproof. One of the byproducts were rules like this that can not be disputed.

Most muslims will talk about miracles in Quran ... Many non-muslim scientists will support the claim. There was a good book about islam and science , I do not remember its name but here is a web site
http://www.islam-guide.com/ch1-1-h.htm


Dr. T. V. N. Persaud is Professor of Anatomy, Professor of Pediatrics and Child Health, and Professor of Obstetrics, Gynecology, and Reproductive Sciences at the University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. There, he was the Chairman of the Department of Anatomy for 16 years. He is well-known in his field. He is the author or editor of 22 textbooks and has published over 181 scientific papers. In 1991, he received the most distinguished award presented in the field of anatomy in Canada, the J.C.B. Grant Award from the Canadian Association of Anatomists. When he was asked about the scientific miracles in the Quran which he has researched, he stated the following:

“The way it was explained to me is that Muhammad was a very ordinary man. He could not read, didn’t know [how] to write. In fact, he was an illiterate. And we’re talking about twelve [actually about fourteen] hundred years ago. You have someone illiterate making profound pronouncements and statements and that are amazingly accurate about scientific nature. And I personally can’t see how this could be a mere chance. There are too many accuracies and, like Dr. Moore, I have no difficulty in my mind that this is a divine inspiration or revelation which led him to these statements.”

[BadDrafter]

Most muslims will talk about miracles in Quran ... Many non-muslim scientists will support the claim. There was a good book about islam and science , I do not remember its name but here is a web site
http://www.islam-guide.com/ch1-1-h.htm
.....

Just because somebody can not read or write does not make them an idiot. Intelligence is not something that you can read in a book, it is God given. My brother's ex girlfriend told me about that book when she was trying to convert us to islam.

[bottomfeeder]

Islam was released hundreds of years after Christianity. Mohammed had looked at the flaws of that religion and made one with far fewer inconsistencies. Islam is a much tighter religion that is bulletproof. One of the byproducts were rules like this that can not be disputed.

I know this might get me in trouble - but we need some levity

Why being a Christian is best

- If you are Jewishg - the guys have to dress funny
- If you are Muslim - the women have to dress funny
- If you are Christian - the gays dress funny

[RonyPal]

I know this might get me in trouble - but we need some levity

Why being a Christian is best

- If you are Jewishg - the guys have to dress funny
- If you are Muslim - the women have to dress funny
- If you are Christian - the gays dress funny

An absoloutely abismal joke...

On the other hand your qoute in your siggy is quite interesting...partial redemtion.

[farooq7]

many muslims eat only halal beef, and hence they may avoid eating non-halal beef burgers


educate yourself, it wouldn't kill ya....marriage among cousins is a not a taboo in many cultures like it is in north america...idiot!


I seen a show on 20/20 and it said world wide 20 percent of marriages are amongst cousins!

[batman321123]

I have also heard the one about not shaking hands with the hand you wipe you arse with. HTF does the other person know what hand you wipe with?

I imagine because of the exteremism under the religion that touching a woman's hand might be the equivalent to fondling her in the West.

and it's also part of the control mechanism built into the religion to keep women in their place.I am sure Western men are kicking themselves for not coming up with such a mechanism as it is likely to come in handy more often than not.

Muslim's are supposed to wipe their arse with their left hand. I'm not sure if that's the reason why we shake our right hands, but one is nott supposed to use the right hand for wiping his/her arse.

[batman321123]

Thanks for the answer...now here's a related question:

So I understand that (based upon your answer) that they can have a photo taken for id - does that mean at the border, airport etc. a Canada Customs person, policeperson etc can request they lift the veil so that they can compare the photo to the person?

Usually there are women working at the airport so you can request a woman to check you out if you've got a veil.

[RonyPal]

Muslim's are supposed to wipe their arse with their left hand. I'm not sure if that's the reason why we shake our right hands, but one is nott supposed to use the right hand for wiping his/her arse.

I wipe my ass with my left hand and i'm not muslim, i'm also right handed :confused:

[konfusion666]

Usually there are women working at the airport so you can request a woman to check you out if you've got a veil.

In the UAE, airport security usually has a single Muslim woman working at every checkpoint along with a fully covered-up booth... all women are checked by her, in the booth.

The men on the other hand... pray that they don't ask you for a strip search cuz there's no booth for you! :lol:

[bottomfeeder]

I wipe my ass with my left hand and i'm not muslim, i'm also right handed :confused:

I am right handed.
I wipe my arse with my right hand.

... but I use toilet paper and never get shiit on my hand.

[bambam]

I am right handed.
I wipe my arse with my right hand.

... but I use toilet paper and never get shiit on my hand.


Before you further go on with discriminatory remakrs how about some education?

Moslems have to be clean before each and every prayer (which is 5 times a day).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wudu
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ablution

[unleashed]

Islam was released hundreds of years after Christianity. Mohammed had looked at the flaws of that religion and made one with far fewer inconsistencies. Islam is a much tighter religion that is bulletproof. One of the byproducts were rules like this that can not be disputed.

That's pretty ignorant of you to say that Mohammad looked at the flaws of one religion and made one with fewer inconsistencies. Don't disrespect a religion like that, you could of instead said that their are alot of similarities between both religions.

[BadDrafter]

That's pretty ignorant of you to say that Mohammad looked at the flaws of one religion and made one with fewer inconsistencies. Don't disrespect a religion like that, you could of instead said that their are alot of similarities between both religions.

Or instead I can say that Mohammed recieved his message from the Angel Gabriel to right the Abrahamic religion that had been twisted and perverted through the centuries. He is the seal of the prophets. Along those lines I can also say that the message of Paul and Christianity (Christ worship) is incorrect. Jesus Christ was not God incarnate but just a prophet who's words were taken out of context (Qu'ran 3:59, 4:171, 5:116-117).

Saying otherwise disrespects millions of followers of Islam and borders on blasphemy.

[ShaTR]

Muslim's are supposed to wipe their arse with their left hand. I'm not sure if that's the reason why we shake our right hands, but one is not supposed to use the right hand for wiping his/her arse.

This is correct. Muslims also use water when wiping their ass.

Just because somebody can not read or write does not make them an idiot. Intelligence is not something that you can read in a book, it is God given. My brother's ex girlfriend told me about that book when she was trying to convert us to Islam.

True, intelligence is not something you can get from reading a book. That’s called knowledge, and it is power. Knowledge is very powerful, but means little without a certain level of intellect to properly interpret it.

That being said, I must also mention to you, Muslims usually don’t try to convert people, and if they are trying to do so, being that direct is considered quite rude. Instead, Muslims try to educate people about the religion of Islam, and its fundamentals. Among them include peace, understanding and tolerance of other people's religion and beliefs.

Islam also recognizes the people of the books and people of gods following. Although this has been corrupted over the years, the fundamentals still stand firm, those being morals and ethics, right and wrong, respect, cleanliness, etc. those people of the books are as follows

Tawrat - Torah: Jewish
Ingeel - Bible: Christian
Zabur: not sure
Quran: Muslim

On many occasions, the people of the book are mentioned in the Quran (Ahl al- Kitâb). They are also considered Gods people and not enemy's of Islam.

All the conflict going on today is purely political / geopolitical. It has nothing to do with Islam in its true form. Any major recognized sect of Islam will condemn all this violence, suicide bombings, killing civilians, etc. I just wanted to make sure that people understand that. It’s not Muslims who are fighting the Jews.. This is not a religious war. This is a war between the Palestinians, Israelis, Americans, etc, etc. Religion just gets caught in the middle.

Just my 2 cents. Ok, I'm done now.

[BadDrafter]

Tawrat - Torah: Jewish
Ingeel - Bible: Christian
Zabur: not sure
Quran: Muslim


Injil: (Gospels of the New Testament)
Zabur: (Psalms) of David

To paraphrase wikipedia: most islamic scholars came to agree that the corruption took place, previous to the time of Muhammad. Paul and Constantine were often blamed. In more modern times, the belief of such conspiracy has been downplayed and replaced with the idea that corruption came through many small changes by many copyists in the second and third centuries CE for the Injil. The corruption of the Torah and Zabur was moved back to before the Common Era, before the earliest manuscripts known today. Today, the corruption of the holy books is a virtually undisputed belief.

I buy the first theory that it was Paul and Constantine and not the more accepted one. If you remove Paul (and the gospel of John) from the New Testament, much of what is in Christianity jives with Islam.

[ShaTR]

I buy the first theory that it was Paul and Constantine and not the more accepted one. If you remove Paul (and the gospel of John) from the New Testament, much of what is in Christianity jives with Islam.

and therefore judaism. anyways, s'all gravy. as long as your a good moral person, what da prollem is!!!

[gei]

it's funny how people follow a bunch of arbitrary "rules" written down in some book

i think (hope) one day mankind will look back at itself at this point in time and have a good laugh

[ShaTR]

it's funny how people follow a bunch of arbitrary "rules" written down in some book

i think (hope) one day mankind will look back at itself at this point in time and have a good laugh

perhaps you should read the quran. i think you'll be pleasently surprised as to how relevent it is. and if you appreciate poetry, you'll definatly like it. its not a book or rules btw...

[maebach]

perhaps you should read the quran. i think you'll be pleasently surprised as to how relevent it is. and if you appreciate poetry, you'll definatly like it. its not a book or rules btw...

I think all the books are the same. The Bible, Quran, Torah and Vedas teach the samething. They all teach how to be good people and values. If someone disagrees in this (ex. Quran doesnt teach that), then the religion is false.

[Sanhedralite]

In some muslim countries touching a woman can get your hand chopped off

umm....no. Was that a joke?

Basically, it's an issue of warding off tempatations. The Quran says to protect yourself from lust, cheating, sexually transmitted diseases, etc,... by lowering the gaze and guarding "assets". [chapter 24:30, 31].

This was for both the men and the women to prevent them from being led into temptation and doing things that would be detrimental later on such as what was mentioned above. It's a very logical religion.

Notice also in the New Testament the clear reference to a man not looking at a woman with lust. For just as he has committed it in his heart, so has he committed on earth.

You may argue that shaking hands does not lead to temptation, cheating, lust, etc,...but that's quite debateable, isn't it?

[MkmBandit]

umm....no. Was that a joke?


I was only half serious. And yes, it is true. At least in the muslim countries I grew up in.. Again though, if you read up, Im talking about forced touch. The OP is not. So let it be

[ShaTR]

I think all the books are the same. The Bible, Quran, Torah and Vedas teach the samething. They all teach how to be good people and values. If someone disagrees in this (ex. Quran doesnt teach that), then the religion is false.

right, and there is a difference between a book of rules, and a book of teachings thru stories and poetry.

anyways, all im saying is that most of these rules you hear of for muslims comes from Hadith's and books writen by relegous leaders in order to interperate the teachings of the quran as well as the hadiths themselves.