Help real estate agent is saying they'll sue me

[Bartek235]

I really need some help..

I was going to lease out my unit... so I put it up with an agent on mls... we got an offer and we've made a counter offer for one person...

waited 3 days nothing happened the other real estate agent went on a vacation to paris and left everything in the air...

then a person through craighslist contacts me and we sign a lease together, I have never met him till the lease signing.

I told my agent that I needed to cancel my contract with her because I was going to stay in the place... and she didn't do much we only had a couple showings and nothing happened...

i just got a call from her totally upset saying the other agent is going to sue me because i signed a agreement privately with her client... I said i had no clue that he was her client. He came from craigslist just like many other people....

she basically was saying how I lied and they're going to sue me and if i paid right away basically she can try and keep it quiet...


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what should I do? do I pay them or will they take me to court over $1400... can they sue me for more then their lost commision, even they didn't do anything to even put the deal together?

ps she says there is a clause in the contract that says I can't make a deal with anyone that they introduce to me... I said I never met the guy and she said it doesn't matter if you meet or not...

that's the only thing she quoted from the contract.

please help

[MkmBandit]

Did you get a copy of what you signed? Was the other agent present at the signing? If not tell her to bring it on. Then PM me and i'll give you the name of a law firm that will chew her up in court. But the cost to retain the lawyer might be expensive. Maybe you can counter sue her for court fees.

[Bartek235]

I signed a contract but it didn't say I couldn't find people on my own... the other agent wasn't present at the time just my agent... if I decide to go to court can they sue me for anything else then just the commission?

[zero_]

Did you lease the unit out before or after you cancelled the contract with the agent?

[MkmBandit]

Did you lease the unit out before or after you cancelled the contract with the agent?

yeah you're liable by contract.. i take it you didnt get a copy of what you signed?

[Tiberius]

Your post is confusing as all heck. There were 2 agents involved??

Did the person you signed the lease with have an agent representing them? It sounds like they did and that is how your agent found out you had leased the place?

If you signed a contract with the agent you should read it. If it doesn't preclude you from leasing the place on your own if you find your own tenant... wonderful. If the person who contacted you through Craigslist never mentioned an agent and was solely representing themselves... it would seem you are set. Of course, this is assuming the contract allows for you to find your own tenant. Sometimes the contract you sign gives the agent full rights for a cut of whatever happens to the property for a fixed period of time, etc.

Bottom line... the answer is in the legal wording of whatever you signed with a real estate agent. I'm also trusting that you are accurately stating that the person you leased to was not represented by an agent and they did not become aware of your property by an agent, etc.

If there is a shadey area in the wording, timing, etc... then you might want to hold your ground at first, and then agree to meet and discuss the issue. At that meeting I would talk a bit... then state that you believe you did nothing wrong, etc. but would be willing to pay a small sum for the effort the agent did put in on your behalf as a goodwill gesture... and maybe offer a portion of their usual fee ($300-500?) to make it all go away. If they have to sue you, etc... it is a long messy process they don't really want to do... so they might take the lessor sum and be done with it. Remember to get things in writing however!! It is always wise to get things in writing!!

Having said all that... I'm sure you can find better and much clearer advice by talking to a lawyer (many give free consultations) or simply reading the contract you signed and determining if you are in the wrong legally. Others here also might know more about real estate dealings and give more direct answers. Best of luck!

PS - It does sound shadey that you lied to the agent saying you were going to stay in the place... so I don't know if I have complete faith in your side of the story... So instead of he-said-she-said... stick to the legal wording of any documents you signed.

[a2vr6]

I really need some help..


----------


what should I do? do I pay them or will they take me to court over $1400... can they sue me for more then their lost commision, even they didn't do anything to even put the deal together?

ps she says there is a clause in the contract that says I can't make a deal with anyone that they introduce to me... I said I never met the guy and she said it doesn't matter if you meet or not...

that's the only thing she quoted from the contract.

please help

The above sounds kind of fishy considering you had no prior meeting with this person. Review the contract possibly with a lawyer. If they think she is in the right then you can try and deal with her. I'm sure she does not want to go to small claims court and spend time on this (there are fee's associated with going through small claims court).

[Bartek235]

I did lie to her and now I really regret it I should have just been straigh out with her...

anyway yes the other had an agent and he did find the place through her... however when we were about to sign a deal she went on vacation to europe and the deal fell through...

the guy contacted me on the weekend saying he was intersted in the place and he saw it on craigslist which is where I was posting it, when he told me he was a lawyer I started thinking he might be the same guy but I never found out until the lunch that I signed the lease with him...

looks like I'm going to have to pay the $1350 + gst... if I knew that they wouldn't sue me for more then this I would go to court and explain my case but I don't know if they would try and sue me for their legal fees

[TheDude79]

Here's a story:

Mr. Smith is looking to lease out an apartment. He hires an agent.
Mr. Jones is looking to rent an apartment to live in. He hires an agent.

The agents do their agent stuff, and Mr. Jones and Mr. Smith meet. The deal falls through because the agents can't get their act together.

Mr. Smith then tells his agent he's no longer going to lease his apartment out, but he's going to stay in it. He then posts it on craigslist to lease.

Mr. Jones 'anonymously' contacts Mr. Smith, claiming he saw the ad on craigslist and wants to rent the suite, not having seen it first.

Mr. Smith says "you bet, I don't care who you are, I'll give you a lease!"


What court wouldn't see this as collusion between the two of you to cheat your agents out of their fees? You'd have to have a pretty damn convincing case that they botched the initial negotiation (on both sides) to not be liable for damages, unless of course your contract allows you to also sign tenants independantly of the agent (which is doubtful).

Settle it with your agent, and good luck to you!

[Bartek235]

The agents do their agent stuff, and Mr. Jones and Mr. Smith meet.

never met... that's the whole thing I did have pictures posted on the net and I did a credit check on the guy but until the lease signing I've never met him. I never knew his name either... nor did my agent ever tell me anyone's name of who was coming to see the unit...

[dolphie]

again, it just depends on the wording in your contract. go read it.
were you free to find your own renter while under contract, or weren't you?
it should say very explicitly.
if you weren't you're on the hook.
if you were, you jsut need to prove that you didn't meet him through the agents....jsut through craigslist. how you do that, i have no idea.

[Hubster]

The agents do their agent stuff, and Mr. Jones and Mr. Smith meet.

never met... that's the whole thing I did have pictures posted on the net and I did a credit check on the guy but until the lease signing I've never met him. I never knew his name either... nor did my agent ever tell me anyone's name of who was coming to see the unit...

How did you possibly do a credit check if you did not know his name :confused: :confused: :confused:

[Bartek235]

I did know his name when he emailed me, but my agent never told me any names that came through looking at my condo so I didn't know who he was. As for the contract it says if I lease to anyone introduced by the agents I have to pay them but I was never really introduced that's the thing... I don't know... argg I never saw this coming..

[st7860]

i thought you're not liable for the other parties costs in small claim court.

[gman]

I guess the agent needs to prove how you steal her deal. She somehow needs to show the link. That is how you two met because of her?

For example, how did the renter know about your phone number? Did she provide the phone number to the renter? How did you contact the renter through her? etc.

Unless she can provide a reasonable possibility you stole her deal, she has no case.

[cloudycanada]

it sounds like the real problem is with you and "your agent" .... i don't think there is much of a case between you and "the guy's agent" (if everything happened as you described)

like said above, the problem is to determine whether or not your agent had exclusive rights to your property, if it doesn't say so in the contract, then I think there is not much of a case here. The collusion stuff is somewhat difficult to prove, but preserve your communication history with the leasee (the buyer) ... like e-mails and stuff unless you do end up in court. If there was an exclusive right, then you may have some trouble, but again, it is only between you and your agent.

if you never heard from your agent again, then forget it
if you do get a letter from your agent's lawyer later, then find your own lawyer ....
although i somewhat doubt that your agent will really go to a lawyer, agents seem to be tight on time and may not like the long litigation process

[Bullseye]

I'd wait for a letter from the agents lawyer, if it ever comes. Unlikely they will sue over such a small amount, and if they do, it will be in small claims, where you can plead your case without a lawyer.

[grant]

Sounds like your agent did her job (getting your apartment leased) despite her efforts to blow the deal.

Pay the woman- it's the moral & legal thing to do.

[gman]

Sounds like your agent did her job (getting your apartment leased) despite her efforts to blow the deal.

Pay the woman- it's the moral & legal thing to do.

Did she? Based on what the OP said, she did not. She did not introduce the renter to him. There is no evidence (based what OP said) she and the other agent provided information to the renter to contact him privately either. So, I don't see how she directly or indirectly connected the renter to him. May be I am missing a link somewhere.

[eliteblaze]

it all doesn't matter.

listing agreement has exclusivity attached.

[grant]

Did she? Based on what the OP said, she did not. She did not introduce the renter to him. There is no evidence (based what OP said) she and the other agent provided information to the renter to contact him privately either. So, I don't see how she directly or indirectly connected the renter to him. May be I am missing a link somewhere.
Read TheDude79's post (http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3647718&postcount=9) for the only plausible explanation.

Sure, it's possible that some totally different person was ALSO was looking for the same kind of apartment, at the very same time, behind the back of HIS agent. But that doesn't explain how the leasor's jilted agent knew which apartment her client had rented without her! ... unless they had already negotiated on it previously ...

Also the OP is a liar, he may very well know the leasor is the same person he'd made a counter-offer to, but without proof, there's nothing stopping him from claiming otherwise.

[eliteblaze]

guys it doesn't matter what condition.

If they have a listing then they get paid no matter waht if yo usell it before it expires.

[tanya16]

guys it doesn't matter what condition.

If they have a listing then they get paid no matter waht if yo usell it before it expires.
thank you sir for being the only person to read my post which has a copy of the listing agreement

[Jacklad]

thank you sir for being the only person to read my post which has a copy of the listing agreement

You didn't post it in this forum.

Jackie

[dolphie]

thank you sir for being the only person to read my post which has a copy of the listing agreement
sorry the rest of us didn't check all the other threads for a reply to this one.
/rolls eyes.
you want us to read it, post it here.

[cal653]

So basically your saying

1. You met Mr. X via your agent first
2. Agent took off and you cancel listing
3. You met the same Mr. X later through craigslist.

Now the above is possible but this is more likely

1. You met Mr. X via your agent first
2. You and Mr. X decide to cancel the listing and split the saved commission both ways.
3. You and Mr. X make up story of meeting seperately on craigslist.

If it is just her word versus yours, I and probably most people including the judge would believe based on the balance of probabilities the 2nd scenario is more likely and rule in her favor.

[cal653]

There is a reasonable possibility he "stole her deal" as you put it. The agent brought Mr. X together with the OP and showed the OP's property. Contact information can be easily changed at any time and Mr. X can easily return to the address later.

These are the facts:

1. The agent FIRST brought Mr. X to the OP's property with the OP being present.
2. Mr. X and the OP later made a private deal together shortly after.

Based the above, what would an impartial person think?


I guess the agent needs to prove how you steal her deal. She somehow needs to show the link. That is how you two met because of her?

For example, how did the renter know about your phone number? Did she provide the phone number to the renter? How did you contact the renter through her? etc.

Unless she can provide a reasonable possibility you stole her deal, she has no case.

[gman]

There is a reasonable possibility he "stole her deal" as you put it. The agent brought Mr. X together with the OP and showed the OP's property. Contact information can be easily changed at any time and Mr. X can easily return to the address later.

These are the facts:

1. The agent FIRST brought Mr. X to the OP's property with the OP being present.
2. Mr. X and the OP later made a private deal together shortly after.

Based the above, what would an impartial person think?

OP did not indicate that is the case. At least, not clearly. I assume he never met Mr. X until after he got rid of his agent.

If what you said is really fact, then yes, it was the OP trying to scam.

[cal653]

It's very subtle... you have to learn to filter the fluff and get to the heart of the matter.

"anyway yes the other had an agent and he did find the place through her" (Mr. X introduced by the agent)
"he might be the same guy" (Shows that he is the same guy the agent introuduced)
"the guy contacted me on the weekend saying he was intersted" (private deal)

anyway yes the other had an agent and he did find the place through her... however when we were about to sign a deal she went on vacation to europe and the deal fell through...

the guy contacted me on the weekend saying he was intersted in the place and he saw it on craigslist which is where I was posting it, when he told me he was a lawyer I started thinking he might be the same guy but I never found out until the lunch that I signed the lease with him...



OP did not indicate that is the case. At least, not clearly. I assume he never met Mr. X until after he got rid of his agent.

If what you said is really fact, then yes, it was the OP trying to scam.

[gman]

It's very subtle... you have to learn to filter the fluff and get to the heart of the matter.

"anyway yes the other had an agent and he did find the place through her" (Mr. X introduced by the agent)

It does not indicate OP was present. He only found the place. There was no indication there was a meeting between Mr.X and OP.

"he might be the same guy" (Shows that he is the same guy the agent introuduced)

Again, there is no indication, Mr.X met the OP before OP got rid of his agent.

"the guy contacted me on the weekend saying he was intersted" (private deal)

anyway yes the other had an agent and he did find the place through her... however when we were about to sign a deal she went on vacation to europe and the deal fell through...

the guy contacted me on the weekend saying he was intersted in the place and he saw it on craigslist which is where I was posting it, when he told me he was a lawyer I started thinking he might be the same guy but I never found out until the lunch that I signed the lease with him...

I read that quite a few times before your post. You should learn to get enough evidence before you say something is a fact. Based on his post, you can only guess that is the case. You can't be certain until he admits it. He only said "might be the same guy".

What you quoted so far cannot conclude this statement you said:

1. The agent FIRST brought Mr. X to the OP's property with the OP being present.

What did you base on to say that is a fact? More specific on the portion of "with the OP being present".

I did not say what you guess did not happen. I just won't call that fact yet.

[alv077]

... omg.

i think... i think i know who you are.

[eliteblaze]

Hi Tanya,

Sorry did you get a non-standard custom listing agreement? Or some kind of amendment?

I didn't get any indication that there was anything other than the standard listing agreement so feel free to ignore me if I'm off base

thank you sir for being the only person to read my post which has a copy of the listing agreement

[Babo]

The agents do their agent stuff, and Mr. Jones and Mr. Smith meet.

never met... that's the whole thing I did have pictures posted on the net and I did a credit check on the guy but until the lease signing I've never met him. I never knew his name either... nor did my agent ever tell me anyone's name of who was coming to see the unit...

Just wondering how did you receive an offer without knowing the name of the buyer (it's on the very top of the first page isn't it?). Seems to me that you knew it was the same person.

[dav1209]

even u posting picture on craglist i don't think anyone would signed a renter contract without seeing a place
i also agree with cal and gman
i have a felling OP lie about the fact here but also like gman have said ...it's only our thought...and can't make sure so shouldn't said it is The Fact
should have said it's your opinion or something
also i don't think the agents will have time to file this to court
it's what everyone does to scare ppls out so they pay them the money
if u scare then u will pay them the $$...if not then depend on the commision is...they will not likely hire a lawer to sue u cost even after won the case they still have to pay the lawer and wasting so much time on the case
time = money so ...and another chance that u will find the lawer and won the case...then she will be at lost by paying her lawer and not getting anything from u.

Also u normally know if u listen to story from 2 peoples fighting each other....they always tell u what's good for them and hide something that not sound good...
sound like OP did lie on this situation
but as my Advise if u being cheap and don't want to pay the Agents then just wait to see if she really find a lawer
u can go to court by yourself and explain the situation...if u won then it's good....if u lost u still can hire a lawer and reopen the case(not 100% sure but u can ask )

so just think about the chance u could save up the fee and the change u might have to pay abit more
just like going casino and making a bet
but if i'm in this situation i'm sure i'm cheap and want to be a smartass and cheat on the agents so why don't u play bad and go till the end of the game
lol

[Bartek235]

Hey everyone just an update, I offered 50% to the agent of the normal fee because of the other agent let the deal fall apart and I had to do everything myself... she said she will get back to me...

and just to clarify until the day I signed the lease with my new renter I didn't know he was the same person. There was no way I could know I didn't know his name and he said he found my listing on craigslist... I didn't assume otherwise.

[gman]

Hey everyone just an update, I offered 50% to the agent of the normal fee because of the other agent let the deal fall apart and I had to do everything myself... she said she will get back to me...

and just to clarify until the day I signed the lease with my new renter I didn't know he was the same person. There was no way I could know I didn't know his name and he said he found my listing on craigslist... I didn't assume otherwise.

Based on this new information, now, one can call that fact, Mr. X met OP before.

[Neil]

OP is here seeking advice, not trying his case. He's been very forthcoming with information so I don't think anything is being twisted or concealed.

It sounds like in the end Mr X wanted the unit and didn't want to wait for his lazy agent to come back from Europe. OP signed one of those MLS contracts that typically mean the listing agent gets paid regardless of much or how little work they do.

As for whether agents will sue, unfortunately they do it all the time. For them it is the difference between getting nothing and getting something. With all the people finding alternative ways to sell their homes (like Craigslist, web, etc) agents are likely suing more than they used to. Their case relies on the listing contract and their actual work or performance in the contract is not really at issue.

The offer to settle is a good idea for both parties. The agent might be stubborn and still take it to court, but on the face of it sounds like she'd win. A smart person will realize a cash offer now is significant versus a protracted court case and collection process.

She will have to split the offer cash with the other agent which might be why she needs to get back to him.