satisfcuktion sold me defective merchandise and now he's saying "it's not my problem"

[nsd]

So guys, I gues it happens to all of us. Rather recently I've had a deal with satisfcuktion that left a bitter taste in my mouth.
I was following his thread over in the BST section:
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=301883
I saw some belts that I liked (black Zegna, light blue and orange Boss), so I decided to purchase them off him. Needless to say that the belts were neither in "brand new condition" as he claims, nor "worn once or twice MAX". Let me show you what they actually look like:
http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/6994/10025180ir.th.jpg (http://img111.imageshack.us/my.php?image=10025180ir.jpg)
http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/2223/10025202pe.th.jpg (http://img111.imageshack.us/my.php?image=10025202pe.jpg)
http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/1945/10025228jb.th.jpg (http://img111.imageshack.us/my.php?image=10025228jb.jpg)
You can clearly see the difference. The Boss is actually chipped a bit on the buckle, and the Zegna is fully cut off. How's that for "brand new condition" ? Now, I'm not a picky trader, so those didn't really seem like issues to me. The chip on the Boss is small, the cut part on the Zegna shouldn't be visible. So I decided to act like a nice guy and take them. So where's the issue you ask ? Well, in fact, the Zegna belt doesn't stay closed. Even the slightest pressure applied makes it open. That renders it unusable. On the other hand, the seller clearly advertised it as in "perfect condition".
I've taken the time to make a movie and post it on here:
http://rapidshare.de/files/24781543/100_2478.MOV
So, what are my grievances:
- he advertised something that wasn't brand new as "brand new"
- he advertised something that doesn't work the way it should as "brand new condition" and "worn once or twice max", though later over MSN he claimed that he never wore it.
What I want:
- money back for the Zegna only
What I will do to get my money back:
- anything it takes (legally speaking)
That being said, I'd advise against trading with him. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks ;).

[nsd]

MSN log from tonight (I talked to him a few days ago, and gave him time to think about it, and come up with the money):
.--------------------------------------------------------------------.
| Session Start: July 11, 2006 |
| Participants: |
| NSD (xxxxxx@gmail.com) |
| satisfcuktion (xxxxxxxxxxxx@gmail.com) |
.--------------------------------------------------------------------.
[11:19:09 PM] NSD: so man ? I think you've had enough time to
think ;)
[11:21:02 PM] - satisfcuktion: lol
[11:21:13 PM] - s: well im not gonna do any "refund" or stuff
like that
[11:21:15 PM] - s: im not a store
[11:21:25 PM] - s: im insisting that i got the belt like that
and that its new
[11:21:32 PM] - s: if u have to complain, i guess ull do what
u have to do

[RBK]

Well didn't you have a chance to check it out before buying?

[RonyPal]

Yes I can see where this transaction went sour, I myself never dealt with him bu was interested in one of his items, however upon some communication with him, I reliazed he has subpar communication skills and was somewhat rude, and therefore annuled any dealings, needless to say i got the same item elsewhere cheaper, just my 2 cents.

[nsd]

Well didn't you have a chance to check it out before buying?
I just checked to see that it fits, didn't actually close it (didn't really see the point back then).

[RonyPal]

FYI
you may want to inquire with the mods as why that thread was locked...

[nsd]

I just noticed it was locked. Just sent a PM, thanks :).

[nsd]

hey, thanks for the warning man.
i was about to deal with this guy...but wow, he tried to rush me into buying the item I wanted. and since I told him many times it was too far, he kept harassing me to come...kept offering me more of his stuff when i clearly wasn't interested. he kept trying to hustle me into his stuff.

i hope you get this issue resolve
That's a PM I just received ;).

[nexus-6]

that sucks dude. sorry for wat happened. maybe u should have checked the belts and tried it throughly..before buying it.

how much did u pay neways??

[Reborn_Neo]

I dealt with him before too, and needless to say it was terrible. He gave me the clothes wrinkled and dared to ask for subway fare as well! Possible the worst person to deal with!

[Rehan]

FYI
you may want to inquire with the mods as why that thread was locked... So the posts there can not be edited.

[SkylineGTR]

i bet he will make a new account

[dgmorr]

I don't know....a belt? You had the opportunity to try them on, no idea why you didn't see if they actually worked.

But yeah, it is the principle. I just had a guy stiff me after making me drive to his house 50km away.

[goat]

He dared to ask for subway fare as well!
LMAO
that was funny

Now back to the topic at hand:
I understand where you're coming from
but this goes back to "buyer beware"
you should have checked out the belt, made sure everything was good. it was used, so you'll have to be the judge of the condition, not him. New is new. "Good" condition for a used product is subjective.
Plus you paid $90 for it (i'm assuming, seeing how the price listed in the thread is "SOLD", but the other Zegna is $90). You would think you would have checked if the item worked.

I'm not advocating the sale of defective merchandice, but I am a firm believer in Buyer Beware. You had the choice to buy it or not.

[nsd]

I didn't actually pay $90. Yes, I should have tried it, but a malfunctioning belt ? I never thought that would ever be the case, especially for something made by Zegna.

[goat]

well
whatever you paid for it isn't the point
and the fact that its Zegna is irrelevant
that's like saying a Ferrari won't malfunction simply because its a Ferrari

[oasis100]

there is no one to blame but urself..u got to try the belt on..
you had the chance to inspect it..
why are u crying about it now?

[Fabulaz]

Are you sure the belts aren't supposed to look like that? Stuff that look worn out are all the rage.

[awestruck]

No offense, but why you paying $90 for a belt that you can get at Zellers for cheap (I've seen those styles/colours at Zellers). No one is gonna notice that it's a Boss or a Zegna.

[Fabulaz]

If you had money, why not?

[Batman.]

you just tried if they fit without actually buckling them?! wtf?! it takes 3 seconds to buckle and unbuckle. When I buy my belts FROM A STORE. I try them. I buckle them, I wear them, Walk around in them. Then I walk to the cashier, give the kind lady the money, and walk out...wearing them.

[satisfcuktion]

Well didn't you have a chance to check it out before buying?

He DID, infact, had a chance of checking it out before buying. Thinking back, he took quite a while looking and trying them on too. We were sitting in front of H&M and by the time he was done, I had done finish drinking a huge glass bottle of Snapple I picked up at Shoppers prior in meeting up with him.

Yes I can see where this transaction went sour, I myself never dealt with him bu was interested in one of his items, however upon some communication with him, I reliazed he has subpar communication skills and was somewhat rude, and therefore annuled any dealings, needless to say i got the same item elsewhere cheaper, just my 2 cents.

Dude, you lowballed me like crazy. I was selling a working Treo 600 for $70 FIRM. At that price, it was definately a steal and I no doubt that a ton of PM for it. You lowballed me $45 picked up or something like that, of course I will not be replying "nicely" to you. It was either that, or ignoring your PM. I think I should of done that.

that sucks dude. sorry for wat happened. maybe u should have checked the belts and tried it throughly..before buying it.

how much did u pay neways??

He defininately did not pay even close to my listed price. It was $150 for Boss and 2 Zegna belts. *Please refer to my "Today's Textile Business Philosophies below".

I dealt with him before too, and needless to say it was terrible. He gave me the clothes wrinkled and dared to ask for subway fare as well! Possible the worst person to deal with!

Want 100% wrinkle free clothing that looks 100% like new? *Please refer to my "Today's Textile Business Philosophies".

i bet he will make a new account

If such a weak hit against me is worth a change of alias, I guess there will be a lot more dummy or "new" alias made on RFD. I have a big list of past customers that you can say are "loyal" to me since I hook them up with good deals on high end branded items. Such items include authentic Prada wallets, Burberry scarves etc due to that fact that I buy a ton and change styles really quick. Such users on RFD also include pool8669, fabulaz, and leeboa, just to name a few.

I didn't actually pay $90. Yes, I should have tried it, but a malfunctioning belt ? I never thought that would ever be the case, especially for something made by Zegna.

Like what some other user has stated, just because a car is a Ferrari, doesn't mean it cannot be faulty. Recently, Car and Driver stated that Ferrari's Testerrossa is rated one of the worst built cars in terms of quality and reliability. Just because its "Zegna", doensn't mean it is 100% guaranteed to be faulty free.

there is no one to blame but urself..u got to try the belt on..
you had the chance to inspect it..
why are u crying about it now?

Ditto. He had 10 minutes plus to inspect 3 belts.

Are you sure the belts aren't supposed to look like that? Stuff that look worn out are all the rage.

That is what I mean. As I have insisted, they ARE, in fact brand new, if not, passable as new. But then again, like some other user said, this term of "new" is subjective, so it is not a solid argument.

No offense, but why you paying $90 for a belt that you can get at Zellers for cheap (I've seen those styles/colours at Zellers). No one is gonna notice that it's a Boss or a Zegna.

I guess that is something he will have to think about. He isn't willing to pay the retail price for a guaranteed "BRAND NEW" item, the store's service and priviledges. He chose the path of purchasing them on forums and paying 1/4 of the retail price hoping to look "all that good" with his Boss and Zegna stuff. I guess this can be tied to one of Cruel Angel's infamous philosophies about people who wear knockoffs or items not bought from a "legit" source. If you can't actually afford to pay and wear the real deal top end clothing or what not, don't be buying them (knockoffs) and trying to POSE and try to look good as the "real deal". In this case, crying about it too after the fact.

you just tried if they fit without actually buckling them?! wtf?! it takes 3 seconds to buckle and unbuckle. When I buy my belts FROM A STORE. I try them. I buckle them, I wear them, Walk around in them. Then I walk to the cashier, give the kind lady the money, and walk out...wearing them.

He DID buckle them to try on. He did not complain about them before. I would agree on buying it at a store if you are picky.





**OK, so lets ASSUME that what NSD said was correct and that the belts WERE defected, here is my 2 Cents on Today's Textile Business:

--As stated in Winners.ca's website--
"20-60% savings everyday on brand name and designer fashions, 10,000 items every week"

Winners sell designer items. To list a few, they carry and have a steady stream of Diesel, Fred Perry, Ben Sherman, DKNY, CK, etc etc. So how do they manage to have these brands at such low prices?! (20-60% off). The answer is simple, the products are either overstocked or DEFECTED. Smart shoppers who DO go to Winners don't commonly admit it to others, but they will know that in fact, almost half the items there are defected. The seams on a t-shirt might not be symetrical, or stitching won't be accurate. Shoes will have slight mismatches in size, etc etc. Although this exists, Winners has NEVER stated to the public that their items are defected and hence the low prices. Don't believe me? Go up to a staff in Winners next time and they can tell you exactly what I stated just now. Or even think of it this way, when manufacturers create a batch of "defective" clothing, what will they do? Throw them out or take them apart to remake them? Definately not. Only higher end designers such as Prada or Gucci can afford to take that option. Others will sell that batch of clothing to other retailers commonly known as "discount retailers" like Winners to help them get rid of the item. Not only does it help soften the damage the manufacturer takes, but also creates a whole new market to "discount retilers" and consumers who cannot/choose not to afford the higher end goods.

So althought a big retailer like Winners are able to and are allowed to sell "defected" items back out, they still have a steady flow of business, because there will always be the people (like NSD), who likes to buy the nicer clothing, without paying the extra money. AS A RESULT, they buy defected clothing (assuming they were not overstocked).

This can all conclude back to Cruel Angel's philosophy. If you cannot buy the "real deal", don't wear it. If you choose the path of buying it from an alternate source (not directly from a legit retailer) (not discount retailers, since they might be "defected" as stated previously), then don't be complaining and whining about it after you've found out you've gotten a defective item.

**Refund? Money back?

I believe that is one of the "services" and "priviledges" that come along to you when you pay retail price. They can guarantee your clothing won't be "wrinked" etc. In retail, you pay that extra bit to feel "secure". It is also the reason why some people would not buy expensive items (ie. car/tv/home theater system) online or from forums, since there isn't that extra "security" for the buyer. You paid around $50 for one of those belts which easily goes for $200+ retail. That is 1/4 of the retail price. So when taking me and Cruel Angel's philosophy in buying retail, who are YOU to complain? There isn't even evidence that you actually met up with you, other than MSN logs, which can be easily edited and doesn't act as solid evidence. I'm not saying that I didn't actually sell you the item, but like I said before, I am not a store and would not do any of that phoney personal "refunds"

My 2 cents.

[soultrader]

He DID, infact, had a chance of checking it out before buying. Thinking back, he took quite a while looking and trying them on too. We were sitting in front of H&M and by the time he was done, I had done finish drinking a huge glass bottle of Snapple I picked up at Shoppers prior in meeting up with him.



Dude, you lowballed me like crazy. I was selling a working Treo 600 for $70 FIRM. At that price, it was definately a steal and I no doubt that a ton of PM for it. You lowballed me $45 picked up or something like that, of course I will not be replying "nicely" to you. It was either that, or ignoring your PM. I think I should of done that.



He defininately did not pay even close to my listed price. It was $150 for Boss and 2 Zegna belts. *Please refer to my "Today's Textile Business Philosophies below".



Want 100% wrinkle free clothing that looks 100% like new? *Please refer to my "Today's Textile Business Philosophies".



If such a weak hit against me is worth a change of alias, I guess there will be a lot more dummy or "new" alias made on RFD. I have a big list of past customers that you can say are "loyal" to me since I hook them up with good deals on high end branded items. Such items include authentic Prada wallets, Burberry scarves etc due to that fact that I buy a ton and change styles really quick. Such users on RFD also include pool8669, fabulaz, and leeboa, just to name a few.



Like what some other user has stated, just because a car is a Ferrari, doesn't mean it cannot be faulty. Recently, Car and Driver stated that Ferrari's Testerrossa is rated one of the worst built cars in terms of quality and reliability. Just because its "Zegna", doensn't mean it is 100% guaranteed to be faulty free.



Ditto. He had 10 minutes plus to inspect 3 belts.



That is what I mean. As I have insisted, they ARE, in fact brand new, if not, passable as new. But then again, like some other user said, this term of "new" is subjective, so it is not a solid argument.



I guess that is something he will have to think about. He isn't willing to pay the retail price for a guaranteed "BRAND NEW" item, the store's service and priviledges. He chose the path of purchasing them on forums and paying 1/4 of the retail price hoping to look "all that good" with his Boss and Zegna stuff. I guess this can be tied to one of Cruel Angel's infamous philosophies about people who wear knockoffs or items not bought from a "legit" source. If you can't actually afford to pay and wear the real deal top end clothing or what not, don't be buying them (knockoffs) and trying to POSE and try to look good as the "real deal". In this case, crying about it too after the fact.



He DID buckle them to try on. He did not complain about them before. I would agree on buying it at a store if you are picky.





**OK, so lets ASSUME that what NSD said was correct and that the belts WERE defected, here is my 2 Cents on Today's Textile Business:

--As stated in Winners.ca's website--
"20-60% savings everyday on brand name and designer fashions, 10,000 items every week"

Winners sell designer items. To list a few, they carry and have a steady stream of Diesel, Fred Perry, Ben Sherman, DKNY, CK, etc etc. So how do they manage to have these brands at such low prices?! (20-60% off). The answer is simple, the products are either overstocked or DEFECTED. Smart shoppers who DO go to Winners don't commonly admit it to others, but they will know that in fact, almost half the items there are defected. The seams on a t-shirt might not be symetrical, or stitching won't be accurate. Shoes will have slight mismatches in size, etc etc. Although this exists, Winners has NEVER stated to the public that their items are defected and hence the low prices. Don't believe me? Go up to a staff in Winners next time and they can tell you exactly what I stated just now. Or even think of it this way, when manufacturers create a batch of "defective" clothing, what will they do? Throw them out or take them apart to remake them? Definately not. Only higher end designers such as Prada or Gucci can afford to take that option. Others will sell that batch of clothing to other retailers commonly known as "discount retailers" like Winners to help them get rid of the item. Not only does it help soften the damage the manufacturer takes, but also creates a whole new market to "discount retilers" and consumers who cannot/choose not to afford the higher end goods.

So althought a big retailer like Winners are able to and are allowed to sell "defected" items back out, they still have a steady flow of business, because there will always be the people (like NSD), who likes to buy the nicer clothing, without paying the extra money. AS A RESULT, they buy defected clothing (assuming they were not overstocked).

This can all conclude back to Cruel Angel's philosophy. If you cannot buy the "real deal", don't wear it. If you choose the path of buying it from an alternate source (not directly from a legit retailer) (not discount retailers, since they might be "defected" as stated previously), then don't be complaining and whining about it after you've found out you've gotten a defective item.

**Refund? Money back?

I believe that is one of the "services" and "priviledges" that come along to you when you pay retail price. They can guarantee your clothing won't be "wrinked" etc. In retail, you pay that extra bit to feel "secure". It is also the reason why some people would not buy expensive items (ie. car/tv/home theater system) online or from forums, since there isn't that extra "security" for the buyer. You paid around $50 for one of those belts which easily goes for $200+ retail. That is 1/4 of the retail price. So when taking me and Cruel Angel's philosophy in buying retail, who are YOU to complain? There isn't even evidence that you actually met up with you, other than MSN logs, which can be easily edited and doesn't act as solid evidence. I'm not saying that I didn't actually sell you the item, but like I said before, I am not a store and would not do any of that phoney personal "refunds"

My 2 cents.
U have ur point.But anyone who deals on Forums need to BE EXTRA CAREFUL with you :lol: with :razz: me or any1else ;)

[satisfcuktion]

Roger that. Back in the old day, parents tell their kids not to talk to strangers. Nowadays, parents should also add in that they should be extra cautious IF buying online. Buying online? You can get good deals from time to time, but also taking the risk to end up with items you don't really like since you didn't really get the experience it in real life. You also don't get the securities and priviledges that retail offers. So all in all, if you want those good deal from time to time, you are going to risk getting things you didn't really expected that you are just going to have to deal with it. Is what I'm saying hurtful to your ears? Then I suggest purchasing your items through retail. Reality is this harsh.

[Little Dragon]

I have a big list of past customers that you can say are "loyal" to me since I hook them up with good deals on high end branded items. Such items include authentic Prada wallets, Burberry scarves etc due to that fact that I buy a ton and change styles really quick. Such users on RFD also include pool8669, fabulaz, and leeboa, just to name a few.

That is what I mean. As I have insisted, they ARE, in fact brand new, if not, passable as new. But then again, like some other user said, this term of "new" is subjective, so it is not a solid argument.

I guess that is something he will have to think about. He isn't willing to pay the retail price for a guaranteed "BRAND NEW" item, the store's service and priviledges. He chose the path of purchasing them on forums and paying 1/4 of the retail price hoping to look "all that good" with his Boss and Zegna stuff. I guess this can be tied to one of Cruel Angel's infamous philosophies about people who wear knockoffs or items not bought from a "legit" source. If you can't actually afford to pay and wear the real deal top end clothing or what not, don't be buying them (knockoffs) and trying to POSE and try to look good as the "real deal". In this case, crying about it too after the fact.

hmm..someone's doing a little contradiction here. so if he bought the belts of you that means you also wear cheap knock offs trying to look "all that good" and you also didn't buy them from a "legit" source?

so if they were BRAND NEW as you claim, why weren't there any tags, stickers, etc on any of the belts? does that mean you wore them? if so, you can't sell them as brand new since they've been USED.

somebody's lying here and has to get their story straight.

[satisfcuktion]

hmm..someone's doing a little contradiction here. so if he bought the belts of you that means you also wear cheap knock offs trying to look "all that good" and you also didn't buy them from a "legit" source?

so if they were BRAND NEW as you claim, why weren't there any tags, stickers, etc on any of the belts? does that mean you wore them? if so, you can't sell them as brand new since they've been USED.

somebody's lying here and has to get their story straight.

These are 100% authentic. He has them, and from the quality, he has no doubt its authentic. Correct, I am not a "legit" source. When I say a "legit" source, I mean directly from Zegna/Boss or Holt Renfrew or the like. I bought them originally for myself at Holt Renfrew. I can styles quickly to follow seasonal trends hence purchasing a little too much, so I thought reselling these can be a way of freeing up some cash. There were no tags on these. I thought that peeling off the tag after buying an item was normal? I originally did not buy these retail just to resell them again for 1/4 its price. I intended to wear them myself.

[skev13]

I remember when a friend of mine sold this guy headphones. He said to meet at a certain place, and wasn't there. Later on, he said that it was a common misunderstanding, and they would go to the meet up place again. Instead of paying in full for the headphones, he paid my friend in what he had (he said he went to buy lunch), so it was like bunch of change. Later on, he tried to sell the same headphones as BNIB on here, at a much higher price, unfortunately my friend did not supply him with the original 1/8"=>1/4" adaptor, and we spotted it right away. He then made up a pile of BS claiming they were BNIB when they clearly were not.

Like I've said before about this guy, Buyer Beware.

[Little Dragon]

These are 100% authentic. He has them, and from the quality, he has no doubt its authentic. Correct, I am not a "legit" source. When I say a "legit" source, I mean directly from Zegna/Boss or Holt Renfrew or the like. I bought them originally for myself at Holt Renfrew. I can styles quickly to follow seasonal trends hence purchasing a little too much, so I thought reselling these can be a way of freeing up some cash. There were no tags on these. I thought that peeling off the tag after buying an item was normal? I originally did not buy these retail just to resell them again for 1/4 its price. I intended to wear them myself.

all i'm saying is that if you peel the tags off or wear them, they aren't considered brand new.

[satisfcuktion]

no tags = not brand new

ok, not brand new then

but then again, these terms are all subjective

[Batman.]

These are 100% authentic. He has them, and from the quality, he has no doubt its authentic. Correct, I am not a "legit" source. When I say a "legit" source, I mean directly from Zegna/Boss or Holt Renfrew or the like. I bought them originally for myself at Holt Renfrew. I can styles quickly to follow seasonal trends hence purchasing a little too much, so I thought reselling these can be a way of freeing up some cash. There were no tags on these. I thought that peeling off the tag after buying an item was normal? I originally did not buy these retail just to resell them again for 1/4 its price. I intended to wear them myself.


then it was very false and mis leading saying that they were brand new and in mint condition. The case now is that your words and your pictures are misleading and people will be very cautious when dealing with you.

[nsd]

So I guess it's the word of a respected trader against some 12-grader that I thought was at least a decent trader ;). You say you're a good trader and all that, but you see already quite a few people started bashing you. Whether I'm getting my money back or not it doesn't matter, at least the board gets to see who you are. You change your username ? No problem, the mods and admins can still see your IP, so that's not an issue.
So everybody's wondering why I still took it ? My fault, I guess. I expected to be treated the same way I treat my buyers. I don't think any of you that have traded with me and are reading this have ever had issues with what I've sold you. The ones that have had issues, they have been solved immediately.
BUYER BEWARE ;)
The pictures he used purposely concealed the defects.

[nsd]

Also you might want to realize that Holts does not sell defective merchandise, so pretty much more than half of your "well-thought" reply is useless.

[satisfcuktion]

How were the pix misleading? Tags were not put there to trick you or anything.

Then again, brand new is subjective. These are definately not in used condition in my books, so I passed them as brand new. If you are so picky and fully rely on what others state the condition is, I think RFD should now put a sticky thread stating how to rate items and the definition of all the terms "used", "new", "brand new", "mint", "gently used"? It also isn't like I shipped him the items. He had the opportunity and chance to try, inspect, and feel the item in real life. He then comes back complaining a week and a half later. There is no real evidence in anything. I can even say, "how do I kno he didn't wear it for a week, break it, then claim that I sold him a broken/faulty item?"? Then again, I claim that these belts are "new".

[nsd]

Because nothing is broken on the belt. If I buy a beat-up cellphone off somebody and don't use it it doesn't mean I can sell it as brand new ;).

[satisfcuktion]

Also you might want to realize that Holts does not sell defective merchandise, so pretty much more than half of your "well-thought" reply is useless.

Yeah, they don't, and I never claimed they did. They are the "legit source" I mentioned. You are the one claiming it is defected, not me.

[satisfcuktion]

Because nothing is broken on the belt. If I buy a beat-up cellphone off somebody and don't use it it doesn't mean I can sell it as brand new ;).

You said it yourself, nothing is broken. So what fault do I have? Zegna has a belt that doesn't work well that I sold. I guess I have to take the bashing for their faults now?

[satisfcuktion]

So I guess it's the word of a respected trader against some 12-grader that I thought was at least a decent trader ;). You say you're a good trader and all that, but you see already quite a few people started bashing you. Whether I'm getting my money back or not it doesn't matter, at least the board gets to see who you are. You change your username ? No problem, the mods and admins can still see your IP, so that's not an issue.
So everybody's wondering why I still took it ? My fault, I guess. I expected to be treated the same way I treat my buyers. I don't think any of you that have traded with me and are reading this have ever had issues with what I've sold you. The ones that have had issues, they have been solved immediately.
BUYER BEWARE ;)
The pictures he used purposely concealed the defects.

In a thread like this, of course all of the people that I have had friction with before would start venting out again. The many ones I have traded successfully probably isn't reading this or even so, what would they say? Compliments? It would probably just have others saying I set it up or something.

[nsd]

Yes, because you advertised it as mint. Mint involves it working too. You're incredibly slow I see :).

[Batman.]

AWW CMON!!!

that was an excellent job you did over exposing your pictures on low quality so details could not be seen as visible as we would like. To make a name of yourself as a good seller, you should have taken pictures of the damage on those belts. Such as the strap and the buckle(on the boss). To show the people what YOUR idea of "brand new" is.

why didnt you take pictures of the damage? BECAUSE THEY WERENT MINT, THEY WERENT BRAND NEW, AND YOU DIDNT WEAR THEM JUST TWICE AND YOU KNEW THAT.

Now you're trying to save your ass with crap like "well the terms are subjective"

Brand new means f*cking brand new and not "chips here, loose threads here and scratched here, here and here"

so. since you choose to keep your name. I'd like to give you a fair warning that nobody who reads this thread will ever take your word of brand new as being brand new. Nor will they judge how 'new" a product is based on your creative style of photography

[nsd]

And actually yes, I'd love to hear from people on here who thought you were a wonderful trader ;).

[soultrader]

wow guys make a PEACE satisfcuktion give nsd something for free on top !!! ;)

[Batman.]

by the way, haha,

how's that stering silver necklace?

[nsd]

I'll gladly return his belt for another one ;). But we all know how reliable he is :rolleyes:.

[soultrader]

by the way, haha,

how's that stering silver necklace?
whats this about?*))

[RonyPal]

Dude, you lowballed me like crazy. I was selling a working Treo 600 for $70 FIRM. At that price, it was definately a steal and I no doubt that a ton of PM for it. You lowballed me $45 picked up or something like that, of course I will not be replying "nicely" to you. It was either that, or ignoring your PM. I think I should of done that.



A) I qouted you 55 and it was OBO, so clearly 15 dollars cheaper is not a serious lowball, but it is not that action which indicates you are a bad trader...here is why.

b) Upon you stating that there has been some interest at the current price, i stated ok i would like to purchase it at the current price of 70, i asked you when we could meet up. No response, i sent you at least 4 pms asking to meet up, never a response bu all being read, hmmm, shouldnt you probably let someone know who clearly is interested in purchasing it?

c) Also please dont lie here, the treo was AS IS as you did not have a battery and could not verify if it was working or not and thats why you were clearly selling it so cheap, and to this day you have not replied back to me, so dont get started on the "oh you lowballed me" basis.

[Batman.]

if you look at the a few of his FS threads, he gives free stering silver necklaces with purchase whatever

[satisfcuktion]

Are you sure the belts aren't supposed to look like that? Stuff that look worn out are all the rage.

http://www.revolveclothing.com/productpages/ZBRA-MJ10.jsp

I think we should start sending letters to the editor of Toronto Star to bash that Revolve Clothing is selling DEFECTIVE, stray ended belts to the public.

If you like your clothing to be neat, neat ended, aka traditional, I would advise that today's fashion is not for you. Stick to Zellers products. Their ends on belts are closed and the stitching is perfect. Lets not forget, they are much more affordable too, so you won't start bashing when they start to break on you.

[satisfcuktion]

if you look at the a few of his FS threads, he gives free stering silver necklaces with purchase whatever

I do. Before, it was only if you paid the price I listed. Now, its for any purchase. I have not sold any other items other than to Fabulaz after I made that change.

[skev13]

http://www.revolveclothing.com/productpages/ZBRA-MJ10.jsp

I think we should start sending letters to the editor of Toronto Star to bash that Revolve Clothing is selling DEFECTIVE, stray ended belts to the public.

If you like your clothing to be neat, neat ended, aka traditional, I would advise that today's fashion is not for you. Stick to Zellers products. Their ends on belts are closed and the stitching is perfect. Lets not forget, they are much more affordable too, so you won't start bashing when they start to break on you.
Thats not the same belt as the one you sold him.

[satisfcuktion]

A) I qouted you 55 and it was OBO, so clearly 15 dollars cheaper is not a serious lowball, but it is not that action which indicates you are a bad trader...here is why.

b) Upon you stating that there has been some interest at the current price, i stated ok i would like to purchase it at the current price of 70, i asked you when we could meet up. No response, i sent you at least 4 pms asking to meet up, never a response bu all being read, hmmm, shouldnt you probably let someone know who clearly is interested in purchasing it?

c) Also please dont lie here, the treo was AS IS as you did not have a battery and could not verify if it was working or not and thats why you were clearly selling it so cheap, and to this day you have not replied back to me, so dont get started on the "oh you lowballed me" basis.

$15 dollars off $70 isnt much? wow. We are talking about a working TREO too. $70 for just a working Treo is definately not "expensive" and I doubt you can find one cheaper. It was sold in less than 2 days if I remember correctly. Yeah, so you DID in fact low ball me, and I then ignored you. Where does it say that it is a policy to reply to all PM? 4 PMs you sent, over how long of a time period? Chances are, the last few were after it was sold. Even so, I acted on a first come first serve basis. Like you stated, you did not offer the full price I stated on the listing. If some other user accepted the $70 picked up on the first shot, why would I even spend time replying to you after I rejected your $15 off $70 lowballing?

[nsd]

http://www.revolveclothing.com/productpages/ZBRA-MJ10.jsp

I think we should start sending letters to the editor of Toronto Star to bash that Revolve Clothing is selling DEFECTIVE, stray ended belts to the public.

If you like your clothing to be neat, neat ended, aka traditional, I would advise that today's fashion is not for you. Stick to Zellers products. Their ends on belts are closed and the stitching is perfect. Lets not forget, they are much more affordable too, so you won't start bashing when they start to break on you.
Funny how even though I know the end is strayed, that is not my issue ;). Also that's not even the belt you sold me. I thought judging by how old you are you could actually read. Visual recognition is also pretty bad ;).

[satisfcuktion]

Thats not the same belt as the one you sold him.

If I could find the exact photo or online selling of this belt, I would post it. I am obviously using that as an example of today's fashion direction. Neat and tidy isn't "trendy" anymore. By the way, I have that Z-Brand belt on sale on my thread before too, but it IS relevant to a certain extent.

[satisfcuktion]

Funny how even though I know the end is strayed, that is not my issue ;). Also that's not even the belt you sold me. I thought judging by how old you are you could actually read. Visual recognition is also pretty bad ;).

And I thought judging by YOUR age and the fact that you are studying mathematics in university you could actually use examples such as that site in correlation to this certain scenario?

[nsd]

And I thought judging by YOUR age and the fact that you are studying mathematics in university you could actually use examples such as that site in correlation to this certain scenario?
And your point is ... ?

[jonathan989]

best . thread . ever .
:twisted:

[StatQuo]

just fight already

[satisfcuktion]

And your point is ... ?

My point is, that site was obviously used as a tool for comparison and you clearly didn't pick up on it.

[RonyPal]

$15 dollars off $70 isnt much? wow. We are talking about a working TREO too. $70 for just a working Treo is definately not "expensive" and I doubt you can find one cheaper. It was sold in less than 2 days if I remember correctly. Yeah, so you DID in fact low ball me, and I then ignored you. Where does it say that it is a policy to reply to all PM? 4 PMs you sent, over how long of a time period? Chances are, the last few were after it was sold. Even so, I acted on a first come first serve basis. Like you stated, you did not offer the full price I stated on the listing. If some other user accepted the $70 picked up on the first shot, why would I even spend time replying to you after I rejected your $15 off $70 lowballing?


lol you had stated there was some interest but nothing firm
and clearly you cannot read as per nsds comments becuase you had stated you could not verify whether it WAS WORKING OR NOT and was being sold AS IS. wow...you cant really read...all the best NSD, you got a live one on your hands here

[Batman.]

If I could find the exact photo or online selling of this belt, I would post it. I am obviously using that as an example of today's fashion direction. Neat and tidy isn't "trendy" anymore. By the way, I have that Z-Brand belt on sale on my thread before too, but it IS relevant to a certain extent.


doesnt mean that the belts YOU were selling were ment to be worn up. The "wear" on YOUR belts looked like they were caused by the person wearing it. Not as a fashion trend. If that is the new fashion tend, to have small dents and loose threads. Hell, send me your belts and I'll make it trendy. But the belts you were selling, certainly were not purposely worn out by the company to be trendy, and were ment to be neat and tidy

[Batman.]

just fight already


UFC 62 on it's way

[nsd]

My point is, that site was obviously used as a tool for comparison and you clearly didn't pick up on it.
Comparison for WHAT ? :lol:
As you can see the belt on the site stays closed, so that's the only way it's relevant to this thread ;).

[soultrader]

wow so much for discussion

[DYJ]

Dood, New is not relative. When you've USED the belt it's USED. If no one has used it it's NEW. Why don't you just refund him 1/2 the $ and get it over with...because your "relative" crap isn't going anywhere

[input]

Isn't this your problem? So you bought it. He sold it to you brand new. You broke it, its not his fault because he didn't break it, it was given to you new when you bought it. YOU BROUGHT THIS UPON YOURSELF. lmao. nothing i say applies unless you know that he broke it and sold it to you broken.

[cookiejunkie]

good thread.. lets all talk some more crap :D

[goffeebeans]

Perhaps satisfcuktion should not have labelled them as brand new, but as with all purchases its AS-IS.

The biggest point is that the transaction took place in person.
The seller let the buyer inspect and try the belts on, PRIOR to purchasing. After the buyer was satisfied with what he saw, he paid the seller for THOSE very same belts.

Now had this transaction taken online and the goods were mailed, than this whole argument over the definition of terms would be relevant. If the buyer had received the package in the mail and saw them for the first time after purchasing the belts, than he'd have a MUCH stronger argument.

Even if the wording and picture on the ad may be a bit misleading, the fact is the USED belts were inspected prior to purchase and the buyer agreed to buy the USED belts (AS-IS)in the condition that they were in.

Both sides, did their part were satisfied at the time of the transaction.
Now the buyer is having buyer's remorse and the seller should not be held accountable.

[FlintBlade]

the belts sold for $190 new, he got them for like $100-120 and he had the chance to inspect the belts. They seem to have very little wear in tear. Obviously worn more then twice. But the deal went fine if ya ask me.

[scottmcl]

First of all it shouldn't be a matter of legal obligation to you, but rather a moral one. It seems you misrepresented the items you were selling. The photo you took has the belts placed specifically, seemingly to hide any visible damage.

No one can force you to refund his purchase. However in light of all this controversy I would hope that you would do it anyways.

RFD has always felt like more of a community, then a business place, and if you take this hardliner approach I doubt you will have any luck in any future dealings here.

[goffeebeans]

The photo you took has the belts placed specifically, seemingly to hide any visible damage.


The photo doesn't matter at all, as the goods were inspected in person prior to purchasing.

If it was bought online, than it would play an essential part on determining the condition of the goods, but in this case it does not.

To make it more clear, the title should be, "satisfcuktion sold me defective merchandise that I inspected myself and now he's saying "it's not his problem that its defective."

For the buyer to go around warning everyone not to deal with the seller given the facts, is similar to thread crapping, as the buyer is just unhappy about the purchase due to no fault of the seller.

[scottmcl]

The photo doesn't matter at all, as the goods were inspected in person prior to purchasing.

If it was bought online, than it would play an essential part on determining the condition of the goods, but in this case it does not.

To make it more clear, the title should be, "satisfcuktion sold me defective merchandise that I inspected myself and now he's saying "it's not his problem that its defective."

To go around warning everyone not to deal with the seller given the facts, is similar to thread crapping, as the buyer is just unhappy about the purchase due to no fault of the seller.

So you are saying that the original photograph has no significance? How can that be? That's how he represented the products he had for sale, there condition is said photograph seems to be mint.

And please don't put words into my mouth I NEVER warned people not to deal with him, not at all. I said his methods of dealing with this situation probably won't be construed as very professional by the general RFD community.

[goffeebeans]

So you are saying that the original photograph has no significance? How can that be? That's how he represented the products he had for sale, there condition is said photograph seems to be mint.


Because the transaction took place in person and not over the internet, so the photo was not used to determine the condition of the products.
Only to us not involved in the transaction does it appear to be a misrepresentation when we compare the photos, but you got to take into account that the buyer inspected the items in his hands before purchasing.
Its not like he got it in the mail and it was completely different from what he was expecting.

And please don't put words into my mouth I NEVER warned people not to deal with him, not at all. I said his methods of dealing with this situation probably won't be construed as very professional by the general RFD community.

Regarding the second part, it was not directed towards you but rather the OP. My mistake, I'll reword it to make it clearer.

[scottmcl]

Because the transaction took place in person and not over the internet, so the photo was not used to determine the condition of the products.
Only to us not involved in the transaction does it appear to be a misrepresentation when we compare the photos, but you got to take into account that the buyer inspected the items in his hands before purchasing.

I am sorry but I don't follow your logic. If the photo hides the damage, it was intended to deceive.

YES, the buyer is also negligent for not checking it out 100%, but that doesn't make the seller free of fault.

Say if I was selling a car, and only posted photos of it at "complimentary angles", hiding damage. Further more say I made no mention of this damage.

You had the chance to inspect it, but maybe you didn't do that great of a job, and paid me for the vehicle.

When you finally discover the damage, is it your fault for not noticing before hand?

If I was a legitimate business, surely I would be accountable.

Didn’t you ever return a damage product to FS/BB because it was damaged, and you didn’t check the box in store?

.....but because he's just some dude online, he's free to misrepresent his products?

[goffeebeans]

As with all purchases from non retail stores, ie USED, you are buying AS-IS items. From a retail store you are purchasing brand new items, not brand new condition. In many cases if retail shops sell AS-IS items, there are no refunds or exchanges. You test it and examine it to make sure everything is to your satisfaction and thats it. If you later find that something is wrong with it.. IT IS YOUR FAULT, not the shops. A vehicle and a belt can't be so easily compared as the vehicle would require some expertise to actually inspect it as opposed to a belt. It would be reasonable to say that the buyer is able to reasonable inspect the belts himself, except for possibly the authenticity of the item. (which the seller guarantees)

If the buyer inspected the belts and tried them on for approximately 10 minutes and then purchases them, the deal is done.

Mentioned earlier, the seller has no obligation to the buyer, except for possibly a moral one (which is subjective to different views). Its up to the seller to decide if he wants to give a refund or not, just like a store manager, neither are obligated.

Yes, there may be a problem with his ad, but in this case the inspection of the goods would be more relevant than the description in the ad itself.

Thats my take on the situation.

[nsd]

Actually we chatted for 10 minutes, because at that time he seemed a decent guy. Tried on for fit for 2 minutes (that means put around waist), then tried to sell me some obviously fake LV crap, trying to pass it as "real for sure".

[trueno92]

In a thread like this, of course all of the people that I have had friction with before would start venting out again. The many ones I have traded successfully probably isn't reading this or even so,

Wholly it smells like BULL ***** in here.!!

I am sure that many readers would like to see your 'A+++ GREAT TRADER' buyers chime in.

Don't be a JACKASS. you sold crap to an unsuspecting buyer, advertising stuff to be 'as new' but it was not. if any retailer did this to you, you'd be pissed.

buyer beware, rfd is not the shopping network.

[rsxonly]

lol would you buy your own merchandise and give it to your dad for fathers day, or give it to your gf for her birthday cause they are "BRAND NEW".... once you buy something and use it, or wear it for that matter, its USED.... if i went out and bought a brand new car and drove it for 1 km and regretted it and sold it again, can i expect to sell it for the exact same price i bought it at mrsp? no cause its not brand new....

[LeeBoA]

:idea:

[LeeBoA]

No offense, but why you paying $90 for a belt that you can get at Zellers for cheap (I've seen those styles/colours at Zellers). No one is gonna notice that it's a Boss or a Zegna.
LMFAO DUDE THATS FUNNYYYYYY . LOL IVE NEVER THOUGHT OF BUYING FROM ZELLERS OR WALMART OR ANY OF THOSE FUNNY CLOTHING RETAILERS...:D If you have hte money, you buy luxury:D Plus GL NDS, ITS THE SELLERS FAULT! Its not brand new, enuf said.

But honestly, this user is a nice guy, dealth with him b4. Dunno what went wrong here...

[rtto5588]

I am happy to say i bought a couple of stuff off of the dude...he's an okay guy..very upfront and honest about things..items were as described...yeah the shirt i bought was a little wrinkly but even if you buy stuff at stores they're wrinkly...

although, i didn't get that silver necklace...that hurts my feelings..hahahaha..(jk)

but this is a very interesting post...keep it up guys...

I tend to side with the seller in this matter...if you buy something online you can't expect a full refund or exchange all the time...if the seller is nice enough he'll do it..but don't expect it all the time..

[soultrader]

I am happy to say i bought a couple of stuff off of the dude...he's an okay guy..very upfront and honest about things..items were as described...yeah the shirt i bought was a little wrinkly but even if you buy stuff at stores they're wrinkly...

although, i didn't get that silver necklace...that hurts my feelings..hahahaha..(jk)

but this is a very interesting post...keep it up guys...

I tend to side with the seller in this matter...if you buy something online you can't expect a full refund or exchange all the time...if the seller is nice enough he'll do it..but don't expect it all the time..
in this story its up to the seller

[scottmcl]

Like someone stated before, this is a pointless argument. Everyone else has their own moral compass.

Obviously the seller cares more about the money then his image. If he feels he is in the right, there is nothing anyone can do.

[psxp]

Buyer, well you should have checked the goods before parting.
I recently turned down a video camera deal from a seller claiming the item was "BNIB" - the thing was a refurbished item and he had used it. Not brand new. Buyer Beware..

Also, in any case, Sounded like the SELLER misrepresented the goods, doesnt care for reputation.. BIG LOOSER

[gl04ir]

why don't u just call him out and talk to him again. if he doesn't give you money back or a trade, then too bad!! FORCE ONE

i'm not trying to sound controlling, nor am i calling him a "store." but even a seller has ethical rules to follow too. there's no way he would have bought that item bnib broken.

[gl04ir]

I am happy to say i bought a couple of stuff off of the dude...he's an okay guy..very upfront and honest about things..items were as described...yeah the shirt i bought was a little wrinkly but even if you buy stuff at stores they're wrinkly...

although, i didn't get that silver necklace...that hurts my feelings..hahahaha..(jk)

but this is a very interesting post...keep it up guys...

I tend to side with the seller in this matter...if you buy something online you can't expect a full refund or exchange all the time...if the seller is nice enough he'll do it..but don't expect it all the time..


what would you do if you were in the buyer's shoes? would you just accept the fact that you'll never see your money again for a product promised to be a "bnib item"?? i don't think your experience with the seller matters much in this situation. i think what matters is that someone has been cheated, and the question is...what should he do about it

[nsd]

Like I said, I wasn't actually expecting him to do something, I just wanted to let people know.
Now, I see this thread here, and I have a hunch: http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=320277
Can the mods please check the IPs ?

[Bat1983]

I feel for the buyer because it seems like he's on the receiving end of a much shorter stick than the seller. But I guess sometimes we have to bite the bullet and let it go.

My suggestion for the Zegna belt is to actually call the manufacturer or take it to Harry Rosen or Holt and try to get something resolved. I am always surprised with the customer service at those stores. Worth a shot, right?

And for the guy who compared a Zegna belt with a Zeller's one....LOL

[LeeBoA]

Like I said, I wasn't actually expecting him to do something, I just wanted to let people know.
Now, I see this thread here, and I have a hunch: http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=320277
Can the mods please check the IPs ?
Is that him? Cuz i wanted to buy the wallet.

[Cruel_Angel]

i knew something was fishy with that thread when he mentioned the z brand belt retailed for 90 dollars... I didn't wana thread crap, but Z brand belts are free with the pants or shorts which retail for like 125 - like 185.. But at holts were often on sale for like 70% off.. So, odds are he bought some jeans for like 80 bucks, and got the belt for free and is trying to make some quick cash.

Actually looking at the thread again, all the prices seem quite inflated..

[cowoc]

ppl just friggin check ur stuff before u pay simple as that and do'nt deal with these kind of people that sell "new" stuff when its actually old and crappy just leave when u don't like what u ssee. the seller obviously lied to get a damn sale. what a loser

[RLP06]

Thats ********, just because he got it new like that, doesn't mean he should pass his bad luck onto someone else. I hope no one buys anything from him again.

MSN log from tonight (I talked to him a few days ago, and gave him time to think about it, and come up with the money):
.--------------------------------------------------------------------.
| Session Start: July 11, 2006 |
| Participants: |
| NSD (xxxxxx@gmail.com) |
| satisfcuktion (xxxxxxxxxxxx@gmail.com) |
.--------------------------------------------------------------------.
[11:19:09 PM] NSD: so man ? I think you've had enough time to
think ;)
[11:21:02 PM] - satisfcuktion: lol
[11:21:13 PM] - s: well im not gonna do any "refund" or stuff
like that
[11:21:15 PM] - s: im not a store
[11:21:25 PM] - s: im insisting that i got the belt like that
and that its new
[11:21:32 PM] - s: if u have to complain, i guess ull do what
u have to do

[LeeBoA]

wow this thread is still alive?