WOW ---- New cars from US up to 30% cheaper (cost to import under $200)

[agepag]

Its so frustrating reading this thread! I remember when I first started reading this 7-8 months ago and was really excited, seeing some Canadains getting good deals on US cars, now our own Government (pressured by Canadain Car manufactures) is trying, and sucseeding us from importing new cars! It total BS, and I don't know what we can do about it. Its not just cars but ATV's, ski-doo's, baby seats, whats next, they won't let us croos the boarder and shop at all. Why can't we benifit from our strong dollar? The American's did! Its funny how all of a sudden this Imoblizer becomes an issue on all 2008models built after sept 01/07, or Manufactures raise the price of recall letters. Something has to be done on behalf of the CANADIAN CONSUMER!!! Let us choose if we want to go through the hassel of buying a US car, I will glady take the hit in 10 years when I go to sell my car, its should be my/our choice! Had to get that off my chest! So who should we be writting letters to, its a slow time at work and I am pissed/board.
Thanks

[Lost Horizon]

.. The only solutions here are political ones. We must bring pressure to bear on both sides of the border. The quicker we all do it, the quicker the results will benefit our situ. Once we shine the light of day on these bandits, and how we are being ripped off, the better it will be for all of us...

Having worked around the world and interacted with many goverments along the way, some worse than others, there is a common theme to power.

While you may think the politicians actually care in any given situation, that is irrelevant. The real power lies in the various bureaucracies one layer down, that are immune to elections and public opinions. The front persons are disposable, and like the queen bee, are totally dependent on the senior deputys who feed them wax or sugar.

The Administrative layer needs to remain autonomus to hold the power. That includes doing whatever to deflect blame or not look weak. TC and the $32 immobilizer-who-cares is a case in point. They will not backtrack, even if it threatens to topple their minister, or for that matter, the government. And the Queen Bee is powerless to fire them, as they can be most effectively vendictive. Sad, but that's the reality.

All we sheep can do is work to find out, one by one, who in the faceless administration are actually responsible for these absurd administrative/regulatory decisions, publish them on the internet, and thereby strip them of their coveted cover and the ability to stonewall the political layer who really don't know dick, or don't have any independent way of making sense of dick.

Welcome to democracy. You do have the power, but you need to expose the chapter and verse in an entrenched administration such as TC that has survived and thrived across all parties and many decades of old boy public service. And in this century of the internet, you can expose lots.

[shoprbccom]

c/o importcarcanada.com

OK.. here is the official word from BMW.

(source: BMW Canada, 1-800-567-2691, Michelle, EXT 5650)

1) Client MUST purchase the Admissibility Letter from BMW Canada. Cost is $350.00; eta is 2 - 5 business days.

2) DEPENDANT ON MODEL and YEAR, car will have to have work done from a BMW Canada dealer to make the DRL (daytime running lights) PERMANENT. YOU CANNOT SIMPLY USE iDRIVE to turn them on. Without having a Canadian Dealer do this work, BMW CA will not issue to a recall letter.

EXAMPLES:
BMW 2007 Z4 - Changes to DRL's can be done via software by dealer. No word on cost.
BMW 2007/2008 3-Series - Changes to DRL's can be done via software BUT ALSO the US cluster MUST be changed to the CANADIAN cluster to make the DRL changes PERMANENT. The cost to do this is roughly $1500.00.

3) Once the changes are made by the BMW CA dealer, they will forward the information to BMW Corporate who will then allow you to order the recall letter at a cost of $500.00.

4) You can now register your car in Canada.

5) BMW sucks.

[t_garp]

c/o importcarcanada.com

OK.. here is the official word from BMW.

(source: BMW Canada, 1-800-567-2691, Michelle, EXT 5650)

1) Client MUST purchase the Admissibility Letter from BMW Canada. Cost is $350.00; eta is 2 - 5 business days.

2) DEPENDANT ON MODEL and YEAR, car will have to have work done from a BMW Canada dealer to make the DRL (daytime running lights) PERMANENT. YOU CANNOT SIMPLY USE iDRIVE to turn them on. Without having a Canadian Dealer do this work, BMW CA will not issue to a recall letter.

EXAMPLES:
BMW 2007 Z4 - Changes to DRL's can be done via software by dealer. No word on cost.
BMW 2007/2008 3-Series - Changes to DRL's can be done via software BUT ALSO the US cluster MUST be changed to the CANADIAN cluster to make the DRL changes PERMANENT. The cost to do this is roughly $1500.00.

3) Once the changes are made by the BMW CA dealer, they will forward the information to BMW Corporate who will then allow you to order the recall letter at a cost of $500.00.

4) You can now register your car in Canada.

5) BMW sucks.

I know, I just got this from BMW USA:

Due to a recent change in protocol, BMW Canada will now be handling recall
clearance letter requests for an administrative fee. Additionally, as of
November 26th, 2007 you will now require a letter of admissibility in order to
bring a vehicle into Canada. This letter will be in addition to the recall
clearance letter, both of which you must source through Canadian BMW or MINI
Retailers. If you are interested in obtaining these letters for your vehicle,
please contact a BMW center in Canada. Should you need it, you will find a
complete listing of authorized centers in Canada at
http://bmw.ca/com/en/index_highend.html.

If you encounter any issues or have any concerns, please contact BMW Canada for
more information on warranty services in their country. BMW Canada can be
reached at (800) 567-2691.

Please let us know if you need further assistance or have any questions by
contacting the Customer Relations and Services Department at (800) 831-1117,
Monday through Friday from 9:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. Eastern Standard Time. Again,
thank you for contacting BMW.

I am off to Seattle this weekend to see if the dealers there will issue it anyways...I'm sure they don't give a sh*t about canada's policies...

[ac328]

c/o importcarcanada.com

OK.. here is the official word from BMW.

(source: BMW Canada, 1-800-567-2691, Michelle, EXT 5650)

1) Client MUST purchase the Admissibility Letter from BMW Canada. Cost is $350.00; eta is 2 - 5 business days.

2) DEPENDANT ON MODEL and YEAR, car will have to have work done from a BMW Canada dealer to make the DRL (daytime running lights) PERMANENT. YOU CANNOT SIMPLY USE iDRIVE to turn them on. Without having a Canadian Dealer do this work, BMW CA will not issue to a recall letter.

EXAMPLES:
BMW 2007 Z4 - Changes to DRL's can be done via software by dealer. No word on cost.
BMW 2007/2008 3-Series - Changes to DRL's can be done via software BUT ALSO the US cluster MUST be changed to the CANADIAN cluster to make the DRL changes PERMANENT. The cost to do this is roughly $1500.00.

3) Once the changes are made by the BMW CA dealer, they will forward the information to BMW Corporate who will then allow you to order the recall letter at a cost of $500.00.

4) You can now register your car in Canada.

5) BMW sucks.

Bastards. Well, more than likely an Infiniti G35 for me now...

Was looking at nearly-new 3-series, but BMW Canada are now being jerks about things.

[1treehill]

I talked with TC and transportation Ontario, the US temporary plate (drive away plate) that dealer gives to you only valid until border, we need a trip permit in Ontario to bring the car home. trip permit only for 10 days, can't be reissued and extended.

Any one used this trip permit before? or other solutions?

[baz5]

I talked with TC and transportation Ontario, the US temporary plate (drive away plate) that dealer gives to you only valid until border, we need a trip permit in Ontario to bring the car home. trip permit only for 10 days, can't be reissued and extended.

Any one used this trip permit before? or other solutions?

When I picked up my vehicle, I got the temp plate from them. Then I phoned MPI (Manitoba), and I paid for 5 day insurance. Faxed it, back, and was good to go. After the 5 days I needed another 5 days so went to local inurance place and they gave me another 5 days. I drove about 7 days with no plates, and you can't see the temp plate in the rear window and was not pulled over once.

[t_garp]

OK this BMW thing has got me really upset!!!! I have just filed a complaint with the Competition bureau as I think that the complaint has merit. Since BMW just changed their policies and were providing the letters before for free, it can only be called collusive behaviour per the competition act. here is my complaint outlined below. Please send your too guys...We're gonna ruffle a lot of feathers in this fight!


Competition Bureau of Canada

RE: Anti-Competitive practices of BMW Canada in direct Violation of the Competition act.

Dear Sir,

I would like to file a formal complaint on the anti-competitive practices of BMW Canada. BMW Canada has harassed, pressured and belittled its customers who have the brain power to realize that they are over charging in Canada and seeking to arbitrage the current currency advantage by purchasing a car in the US. Their actions directly contravene section 1.1 of the Competition act which states that “the purpose of this Act is to maintain and encourage competition in Canada in order to promote the efficiency and adaptability of the Canadian economy, in order to expand opportunities for Canadian participation in world markets while at the same time recognizing the role of foreign competition in Canada”

My complaint does not relate to the high price of cars in Canada (although that's another story) but to the anti-competitive and collusive nature which BMW Canada and BMW USA have engaged in starting November 26, 2007. Prior to this date, if one were to purchase a BMW in the US one would be able to obtain a recall clearance letter or a vehicle inquiry report that would satisfy Transport Canada and the Registrar of Imported Vehicles for free from a Canadian or US BMW dealer. BMW Canada realizing it has been losing sales and has colluded with BMW USA for them to stop issuing the recall clearance letter and have started to charge Canadian consumers $350 for the letter (which simply states that there are no outstanding recalls. In my opinion, this letter is the property of the vehicle owner and NOT the manufacturer as the consumer has the right to know if there are ANY safety recalls outstanding on his vehicle as a result of manufacturer errors. In no way can the consumer be at fault for what is in this report and the manufacturer is obliged by law to fix any outstanding recalls as it is a safety issue.). On top of that BMW Canada has instructed their Canadian dealers to not perform warranty work on the cars (even thought the cars have a North American warranty) unless the customers pays a $500 fee to validate the cars admissibility. If this is their official position, it is in contradiction to the terms of the warranty. And if BMW Canada has serviced an American car anytime in the past without this $500 fee it is further proof that this is simply anti-competitive behaviour.

These charges are a direct contravention of part IV, section 45 of the competition act which clearly states that “(1) Every one who conspires, combines, agrees or arranges with another person: (a) to limit unduly the facilities for transporting, producing, manufacturing, supplying, storing or dealing in any product, (b) to prevent, limit or lessen, unduly, the manufacture or production of a product or to enhance unreasonably the price thereof, (c) to prevent or lessen, unduly, competition in the production, manufacture, purchase, barter, sale, storage, rental, transportation or supply of a product, or in the price of insurance on persons or property, or (d) to otherwise restrain or injure competition unduly, is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years or to a fine not exceeding ten million dollars or to both.”

BMW Canada is clearly acting in a collusive manner as services that were once free only months ago are now levied with excessive fees to stem the ability of the consumer to exercise their freedoms and guaranteed under the competition act.

I call upon the Competition bureau of Canada to ACT IMMEDIATELY as this is affecting thousands of Canadian consumers. Per a recent study by Scotia Bank, Imports of vehicles bought by Canadians in the United States hit a record of almost 25,000 ion October 2007, are on pace to reach another 22,000 to 23,000 in November and will likely hit an annual record when the results for all of 2007 are tallied.

Kind Regards,

Mr. Unhappy

[heatwave]

Please help!
The first bus/train arrives Rochester at approx. 1pm and 2:30pm respectively. Neither option would leave me enough time to get back to the border before the U.S. Customs close at 3:30 p.m. Even if I spend a night in Rochester will be very inconvenient (being car-less) and/or expensive (Motel + $50-60 cab ride, I was told). So, those who live in Toronto and have picked up a car from Karl, how did you do that?
Thanks

First off, you must be saving lotsa money, so what if you have to spend a few bucks for lodging and accomodation. Second, be VERY VERY careful, Karl cannot get you a temporary plate without some signed papers. It took about 2 hours to get it, and it really really pushed close to the closing time at the border. Sometimes, the border people close up early and leave. You should go by train 1 day earlier (sunday) and then ask Karl to pick you up from the motel (he always offers this option).

[Tender]

First off, you must be saving lotsa money, so what if you have to spend a few bucks for lodging and accomodation. Second, be VERY VERY careful, Karl cannot get you a temporary plate without some signed papers. It took about 2 hours to get it, and it really really pushed close to the closing time at the border. Sometimes, the border people close up early and leave. You should go by train 1 day earlier (sunday) and then ask Karl to pick you up from the motel (he always offers this option).

You can always rent an one-way car, drop off at the airport and get Karl to pick you up there. That way you can leave as early as possible and still be able to finish it in one day.

[shoprbccom]

I know, I just got this from BMW USA:



I am off to Seattle this weekend to see if the dealers there will issue it anyways...I'm sure they don't give a sh*t about canada's policies...

Umm.. if you can't register the car, it won't do you much good. Why not just call the dealers?

[whampoa]

I talked with TC and transportation Ontario, the US temporary plate (drive away plate) that dealer gives to you only valid until border, we need a trip permit in Ontario to bring the car home. trip permit only for 10 days, can't be reissued and extended.

Any one used this trip permit before? or other solutions?

Getting one of this temp permit in Ontario depend on the luck of the draw. Some office will give it to you if you have a copy of the MCO.

Others want an original copy, no dealers will courier it to you unless you paid for the vehicle in advance. In my case, screw MTO and just drive with my US temp plate until certification.

[t_garp]

More letters I have sent off in my rant.


Canadian Consumer Information Gateway - Office of Consumer Affairs
Industry Canada
235 Queen Street
6th Floor West
Ottawa, ON
K1A 0H5
Tel: (613) 946-2576
E-mail: consumer.information@ic.gc.ca
RE: Charging for a safety recall clearance letter by BMW Canada

Dear Sir,

I would like to file a formal complaint on the anti-competitive practices of BMW Canada. BMW Canada has harassed, pressured and belittled its customers who have the brain power to realize that they are over charging in Canada and seeking to arbitrage the current currency advantage by purchasing a car in the US. Their actions directly contravene section 1.1 of the Competition act which states that “the purpose of this Act is to maintain and encourage competition in Canada in order to promote the efficiency and adaptability of the Canadian economy, in order to expand opportunities for Canadian participation in world markets while at the same time recognizing the role of foreign competition in Canada”

However, as it relates to industry Canada, BMW Canada is now charging Canadaian consumers for what should be free. Starting November 26, 2007, BMW Canada is now charging $350 in order to obtain a Safety recall clearance letter which states that the car has no safety recalls outstanding. Prior to this date, if one were to purchase a BMW in the US one would be able to obtain a recall clearance letter or a vehicle inquiry report that would satisfy Transport Canada and the Registrar of Imported Vehicles for free from a Canadian or US BMW dealer. BMW Canada realizing it has been losing sales and has colluded with BMW USA for them to stop issuing the recall clearance letter and have started to charge Canadian consumers $350 for the letter (which simply states that there are no outstanding recalls. In my opinion, this letter is the property of the vehicle owner and NOT the manufacturer as the consumer has the right to know if there are ANY safety recalls outstanding on his vehicle as a result of manufacturer errors. In no way can the consumer be at fault for what is in this report and the manufacturer is obliged by law to fix any outstanding recalls as it is a safety issue.). On top of that BMW Canada has instructed their Canadian dealers to not perform warranty work on the cars (even thought the cars have a North American warranty) unless the customers pays a $500 fee to validate the cars admissibility. If this is their official position, it is in contradiction to the terms of the warranty. And if BMW Canada has serviced an American car anytime in the past without this $500 fee it is further proof that this is simply anti-competitive behaviour.

BMW Canada is clearly acting in a collusive manner as services that were once free only months ago are now levied with excessive fees to stem the ability of the consumer to exercise their freedoms and guaranteed under the competition act.

I call upon the Industry Canada to ACT IMMEDIATELY as this is affecting thousands of Canadian consumers. Manufacturers do NOT have the right to charge us for a safety recall letter as it is their responsibility to ensure that our cars are safe and free of defects. I would like to remind you that this letter was free until last week. Per a recent study by Scotia Bank, Imports of vehicles bought by Canadians in the United States hit a record of almost 25,000 ion October 2007, are on pace to reach another 22,000 to 23,000 in November and will likely hit an annual record when the results for all of 2007 are tallied.

Kind Regards,

Mr. Unhappy

[t_garp]

And the last one to Elliot Spitzer and the FTC


Dear Mr. Spitzer,

You have long been an advocate for the little guy and I hope you are willing to press this issue for the sake of Canadian consumers as well as New York State auto dealers.

As you may know, the decline of the US dollar has created an opportunity for Canadians to arbitrage the currency and purchase a car in the US. Per a recent study by Scotia Bank, Imports of vehicles bought by Canadians in the United States hit a record of almost 25,000 ion October 2007, are on pace to reach another 22,000 to 23,000 in November and will likely hit an annual record when the results for all of 2007 are tallied. This exports of vehicles create jobs and support the American economy.

However, recently the auto manufacturers have engaged in collusive behaviour to discourage the exportation of cars into Canada. These actions directly contravene US and Canadian antitrust laws designed to promote the interests of consumers, support unfettered markets and result in lower prices and more choices.

For example, starting November 26, 2007, BMW Canada and BMW USA have engaged in collusive behaviour Prior to this date, if one were to purchase a BMW in the US one would be able to obtain a recall clearance letter or a vehicle inquiry report that would satisfy Transport Canada and the Registrar of Imported Vehicles for free from a Canadian or US BMW dealer. BMW Canada realizing it has been losing sales and has colluded with BMW USA for them to stop issuing the recall clearance letter and have started to charge Canadian consumers $350 for the letter (which simply states that there are no outstanding recalls. In my opinion, this letter is the property of the vehicle owner and NOT the manufacturer as the consumer has the right to know if there are ANY safety recalls outstanding on his vehicle as a result of manufacturer errors. In no way can the consumer be at fault for what is in this report and the manufacturer is obliged by law to fix any outstanding recalls as it is a safety issue.). On top of that BMW Canada has instructed their Canadian dealers to not perform warranty work on the cars (even thought the cars have a North American warranty) unless the customers pays a $500 fee to validate the cars admissibility. If this is their official position, it is in contradiction to the terms of the warranty. And if BMW Canada has serviced an American car anytime in the past without this $500 fee it is further proof that this is simply anti-competitive behaviour.

I have already filed a formal complaint with the Competition bureau of Canada as I along with many Canadian consumers was harassed, pressured and belittled by BMW in my efforts to arbitrage the current currency advantage by purchasing a car in the US. Their actions directly contravene section 1.1 of the Competition act which states that “the purpose of this Act is to maintain and encourage competition in Canada in order to promote the efficiency and adaptability of the Canadian economy, in order to expand opportunities for Canadian participation in world markets while at the same time recognizing the role of foreign competition in Canada.” Their actions also directly contravene TITLE 15 > CHAPTER 2 > SUBCHAPTER II > § 62 PROMOTION OF EXPORT TRADE of the FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION; PROMOTION OF EXPORT TRADE AND PREVENTION OF UNFAIR METHODS OF COMPETITION which clearly states that the actions which restrain trade are unlawful.

These charges are a direct contravention of part IV, section 45 of the Canadian Competition act which clearly states that “(1) Every one who conspires, combines, agrees or arranges with another person: (a) to limit unduly the facilities for transporting, producing, manufacturing, supplying, storing or dealing in any product, (b) to prevent, limit or lessen, unduly, the manufacture or production of a product or to enhance unreasonably the price thereof, (c) to prevent or lessen, unduly, competition in the production, manufacture, purchase, barter, sale, storage, rental, transportation or supply of a product, or in the price of insurance on persons or property, or (d) to otherwise restrain or injure competition unduly, is guilty of an indictable offense and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years or to a fine not exceeding ten million dollars or to both.”

BMW Canada is clearly acting in a collusive manner as services that were once free only months ago are now levied with excessive fees to stem the ability of the consumer to exercise their freedoms and guaranteed under the Canadian Competition Act and the US Federal Trade Commission.

Any attention that you may give to this matter is greatly appreciated as there are thousands of Canadians waiting to buy cars from US auto dealers which will create jobs and support the US economy.

Regards,

Mr. Unhappy

[agepag]

OK this BMW thing has got me really upset!!!! I have just filed a complaint with the Competition bureau as I think that the complaint has merit. Since BMW just changed their policies and were providing the letters before for free, it can only be called collusive behaviour per the competition act. here is my complaint outlined below. Please send your too guys...We're gonna ruffle a lot of feathers in this fight!


Please keep us up to date on what happens!

[crasher]

Maybe things changed in last 3 months, I was told that US temp tag, is good here. I drove with it for 1 month, without getting pulled over once. Actually, I did not even put my Ont plates for 2 weeks, after I got them, still waiting for 407 bill:cheesygri
I talked with TC and transportation Ontario, the US temporary plate (drive away plate) that dealer gives to you only valid until border, we need a trip permit in Ontario to bring the car home. trip permit only for 10 days, can't be reissued and extended.

Any one used this trip permit before? or other solutions?

[yayaya]

Wow !! Awesome letters !!!!!!!

Congrats.

...........I wish you were writing my letters when I was divorcing my ex !!

:o)

[the Bez]

For those people who have managed to import Hondas and Acuras, have you purchased replacement/extended warranty coverage? Who did you go through and have you been happy so far with your choice of warranty?

I checked into Warranty Direct Canada - which was recommended to me by some people in the US as well as it seems to have the biggest presence on the web for 3rd party warranty companies in Canada - but: a) they don't currently offer coverage in Alberta - they are hoping to within 6 months or so and b) their policy is NOT to provide coverage for vehicles imported from the US. I had an email exchange with them trying to determine the reason for this policy and this is what they said:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: the Bez (Edmonton)
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 1:31 PM
To: 'feedback@warrantydirect.com'
Subject: RE: Not Serving Alberta?

Not true - some don't but many do. Regardless, your upper end coverages appear to mirror some factory warranties. So on new imported cars where the factory warranty is not being honoured by the manufacturer (which is illegal by the way, per BC Supreme Court case "Toyota Canada Inc. v. Lipetz, 1998 CanLII 4473 (BC S.C.)"), yours would be meant as replacement coverage. I don't understand why this is a problem. Why you would refuse a customer is beyond me. Unless it's due to pressure from the automakers themselves of course??

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: feedback@warrantydirect.com [mailto:feedback@warrantydirect.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 1:15 PM
To: The Bez (Edmonton)
Subject: RE: Not Serving Alberta?

Vehicles bought in the US and brought to Canada typically have no factory warranty, therefore, no warranty for us to extend.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: the Bez (Edmonton)
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 2:50 PM
To: Warranty Direct Feedback
Subject: RE: Not Serving Alberta?


Can I ask WHY you would not offer coverage on a vehicle imported from the US - as long as it's done legally of course?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: feedback@warrantydirect.com [mailto:feedback@warrantydirect.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 12:48 PM
To: the Bez
Subject: RE: Not Serving Alberta?

We would not offer coverage on a vehicle imported from the US. We are not offering coverage in Alberta due to insurance regulations. We expect to offer coverage there sometime within the next 6 months.

Thank you for your interest in Warranty Direct.


From: the Bez (Edmonton)
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 2:38 PM
To: Warranty Direct Feedback
Subject: Not Serving Alberta?

To Whom It May Concern,

I live in Alberta and notice that Warranty Direct Canada currently does not offer coverage here. Why is that? I figured with a name like Warranty Direct Canada you would provide coverage in all provinces. Will this be changed soon? When? I am looking at importing a vehicle from the US in the new year and need a warranty. Is there another reputable warranty company that you would recommend for coverage in Alberta? Please advise.

Thks,
the Bez
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

They have yet to respond back of course. I am just wondering whether I will be forced to go to Honda Canada, assuming they will even deal with me.

It amazes me that companies turn away or treat customers so poorly like this. Is our money no good? Can't the automakers see beyond a single purchase to the long term? Is customer loyalty not a priority for them? Honda shouldn't care whether I buy my car in the US or Canada, they should just be happy that I want to purchase one of THEIR vehicles instead of a competitor's. So my local dealer doesn't get my money for the initial sale, so what? What about all the cash he'll make from the subsequent servicing for the next 3-5 years? He should be thanking me, because I could just as easily go and buy a Subaru which would mean that Honda USA and Honda Canada would get squat from me. I know that many here have already done so but based on all the reasearch I've done (incl. Phil Edmonston's Lemon Aid Guide 2007 New Cars/Vans) - and I know I'll probably get flamed for saying this - Hondas are still considered to be more reliable long-term than Subarus, and reliability is a big deal for me.

Thanks in advance for any info you Acura/Honda folks can provide.

[mangoman]

Unfortunately the US dealer I was speaking to confirmed that KIA Canada will not honour warranties on cars purchased in the US by Canadians. (So sad considering their quality has come so far so fast - unfortunately it seems they're trying to adopt the same sales practices too >:( )

[t_garp]

Wow !! Awesome letters !!!!!!!

Congrats.

...........I wish you were writing my letters when I was divorcing my ex !!

:o)

Thanks...I am still fuming even though the letters made me feel better.

People fell free to borrow their content and send you own complaints to the

Canadian Competition Bureau: https://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/internet/index.cfm?itemID=1260&lg=e&CFID=11982130&CFTOKEN=92682246

Write you MP, the PM, anyone who will listen...

[dotcalamitie]

BMW Canada is nothing less than a sleeze operation...I just go this email from them (I was a long term BMW customer of their top of the line vehicles for several years until now)...

>>>Experience the unparalleled performance of a BMW – and your Canadian dollar. In response to the exceptional value of our Canadian dollar, BMW Canada is making history by offering its lowest interest rates ever. It’s our way of giving you the same clout your dollar has. Take advantage of incredible offers on the full range of BMW vehicles. Click here for more details
<<<<

OK, so I go to BMW Canada website, I punch in BMW 650 lease for 3 years with $5,000 down and I got $1,539 per month (very close to what I was paying for the same car I just turned in that was not on sale at the time I leased it). I did the same thing on the US site and I got $1,174 per month. BMW is playing the same games they did with me over the years...they give you a lower lease rate ( i was paying 6.9 percent on my old car and it had a residual of $72,000) and they drop the residual...which is now $63,000. Total savings = zero. These slime balls have lost my interest.

[dotcalamitie]

Does BMW Canada require American BMW owners travelling thru Canada to pay the $500 fee to validate the cars admissibility should they need service? Either the car is warranted or it is not. The ownership of the vehicle is not what is warranted. It is the car.

[scouzi]

Please keep us up to date on what happens!

The seem to be more worried about chocolate:

http://www.reportonbusiness.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071127.wrchocolate28/BNStory/Business/home

[t_garp]

Does BMW Canada require American BMW owners travelling thru Canada to pay the $500 fee to validate the cars admissibility should they need service? Either the car is warranted or it is not. The ownership of the vehicle is not what is warranted. It is the car.

Exactly my point to the competition bureau. IF this is the policy then BMW Canada has to enforce it on ALL American cars and cannot discriminate as it is anti-0competitive. I think this is a valid point that we need to exploit.

Do like me and raise it with the Competition bureau.

[NAFTAGO]

Hi there,
it looks like despite all efforts I wont be able to get the money to buy my Outback before Dec 3th which is when the Cash rebate ends. $1500 less if you buy the 2.5i or $1250 if you buy the 2.5i Limited.

Do you have any idea if this will get extended in Dec or do you thing it will be implemented again in January?

I can't decide: should I buy it in December without rebate or wait for January and get it maybe with rebate but with 13% taxes instead of 14%

Finally what do you thing are the chances of Subaru adding the Outback to the Inadmissible column?

Thanks guys, l envy those of you who got your car.

My wife leaves the room anytime I start talking (ranting) about the Canadian car makers. Anybody in the same situation?
:)

[zircon]

Hi there,
it looks like despite all efforts I wont be able to get the money to buy my Outback before Dec 3th which is when the Cash rebate ends. $1500 less if you buy the 2.5i or $1250 if you buy the 2.5i Limited.

Do you have any idea if this will get extended in Dec or do you thing it will be implemented again in January?

I can't decide: should I buy it in December without rebate or wait for January and get it maybe with rebate but with 13% taxes instead of 14%

Finally what do you thing are the chances of Subaru adding the Outback to the Inadmissible column?

Thanks guys, l envy those of you who got your car.

My wife leaves the room anytime I start talking (ranting) about the Canadian car makers. Anybody in the same situation?
:)

A couple of points here. Legacy is a really slow seller for Subie, so they may add more incentives not eliminate them. I went to about 3 dealers in Michigan and all they had were Imprezas and Tribrecas. Maybe one Legacy per lot. You can get a goog deal. I was interestd in Lecacy GT, and was quoted about 30,400 without negotiating. Great car for the money.

I also priced Infiniti G35X. Delaer knew exactly what the Can price was, and they would sell to me with no problem. Saw the mileage some guys posted on Edmunds and rethought the buy - as low as 12 mpg in city on super? Beautiful car, great deal, but mileage matters to me.

[zircon]

Why would anyone buy a car from this company. Quality issues galore, and pricey. Arrogant attitude. Buy a used Lexus or new Infiniti.

Let them eat cake. BMW and Honda suck.

[eastsidesubaru]

I have seen Subaru take away rebates before, but I highly doubt it will happen next month. You should be OK.

[DollarsToDonuts]

Great thread. I have seen very little on where people have been exchanging there Can$ to US$. I noticed one post mention KVB. Have many people used this or are there more choices that give a fair rate? Thanks.

[dotcalamitie]

When I was coming across the border today I saw four Canadians importing US cars at the US border office in Queenston. The toll is now identical in US and CDN dollars.

[kmare]

Has anyone successfully imported a Post Sept 1 2007 Vehicle? If the vehicle is admissible there is no problem?

[dotcalamitie]

Of course they will tell you that the CDN version has leather...so what...base X5 4.8 liter models lease for...

$1059 3 years, CDN with $5,000 down
$745 3 years US with $5,000 down

Wow...if you listen to what BMW Canada tells you, you will get absolutely screwed. Same smoke and mirrors - super low lease rate, but the buy back has taken a HUGE hit. BMW Canada is raking in the dough. What a scam and quite frankly, what a shame such crooked people stand behind such an incredible product. Someone should complain to Germany about this outrage, the lies that BMW Canada perpetrates to screw Canadians.

[dotcalamitie]

on those above leases. and the best part is, the BMW X5 I quoted was a 2008 from the US, the BMW X5 in Canada was a 2007. I think that more than makes up for the base model lack of leather seats in the US don't you?

[jed]

Hi there,
it looks like despite all efforts I wont be able to get the money to buy my Outback before Dec 3th which is when the Cash rebate ends. $1500 less if you buy the 2.5i or $1250 if you buy the 2.5i Limited.

Do you have any idea if this will get extended in Dec or do you thing it will be implemented again in January?

I can't decide: should I buy it in December without rebate or wait for January and get it maybe with rebate but with 13% taxes instead of 14%

Finally what do you thing are the chances of Subaru adding the Outback to the Inadmissible column?

Thanks guys, l envy those of you who got your car.

My wife leaves the room anytime I start talking (ranting) about the Canadian car makers. Anybody in the same situation?
:)

I was in the business for over 13 yrs, and theres one thing that no one can tell you - the future. All you are going to get is an opinion. Its worth exactly what you paid to get it. Zero.

Ponder your choice, take the plunge or not, and don't look back. There will be exactly nothing you can do should a rebate appear after you purchase your car so don't worry about it. And besides with the cost diff (US & Can) w/o rebates, its not that big of a deal really, is it?

[jed]

The Wheatons used to own First Guaranty (sp?) Extended Warranty and they typically sold this for new and used. Usually for used, there was a checklist to go over with a tech, and had to meet some requirements - none of which was where the vehicle was purchased.

Cost varies by dealer as there is a margin to be made on each contract, YMMV. Shop around the city, especially at the Wheaton's stores (both GM stores on Whyte Ave) to get more info. I've been out of the market for a few years, but the F & I guys in either the used or new part would be able to tell you.

For those people who have managed to import Hondas and Acuras, have you purchased replacement/extended warranty coverage? Who did you go through and have you been happy so far with your choice of warranty?

I checked into Warranty Direct Canada - which was recommended to me by some people in the US as well as it seems to have the biggest presence on the web for 3rd party warranty companies in Canada - but: a) they don't currently offer coverage in Alberta - they are hoping to within 6 months or so and b) their policy is NOT to provide coverage for vehicles imported from the US. I had an email exchange with them trying to determine the reason for this policy and this is what they said:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: the Bez (Edmonton)
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 1:31 PM
To: 'feedback@warrantydirect.com'
Subject: RE: Not Serving Alberta?

Not true - some don't but many do. Regardless, your upper end coverages appear to mirror some factory warranties. So on new imported cars where the factory warranty is not being honoured by the manufacturer (which is illegal by the way, per BC Supreme Court case "Toyota Canada Inc. v. Lipetz, 1998 CanLII 4473 (BC S.C.)"), yours would be meant as replacement coverage. I don't understand why this is a problem. Why you would refuse a customer is beyond me. Unless it's due to pressure from the automakers themselves of course??

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: feedback@warrantydirect.com [mailto:feedback@warrantydirect.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 1:15 PM
To: The Bez (Edmonton)
Subject: RE: Not Serving Alberta?

Vehicles bought in the US and brought to Canada typically have no factory warranty, therefore, no warranty for us to extend.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: the Bez (Edmonton)
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 2:50 PM
To: Warranty Direct Feedback
Subject: RE: Not Serving Alberta?


Can I ask WHY you would not offer coverage on a vehicle imported from the US - as long as it's done legally of course?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: feedback@warrantydirect.com [mailto:feedback@warrantydirect.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 12:48 PM
To: the Bez
Subject: RE: Not Serving Alberta?

We would not offer coverage on a vehicle imported from the US. We are not offering coverage in Alberta due to insurance regulations. We expect to offer coverage there sometime within the next 6 months.

Thank you for your interest in Warranty Direct.


From: the Bez (Edmonton)
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 2:38 PM
To: Warranty Direct Feedback
Subject: Not Serving Alberta?

To Whom It May Concern,

I live in Alberta and notice that Warranty Direct Canada currently does not offer coverage here. Why is that? I figured with a name like Warranty Direct Canada you would provide coverage in all provinces. Will this be changed soon? When? I am looking at importing a vehicle from the US in the new year and need a warranty. Is there another reputable warranty company that you would recommend for coverage in Alberta? Please advise.

Thks,
the Bez
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

They have yet to respond back of course. I am just wondering whether I will be forced to go to Honda Canada, assuming they will even deal with me.

It amazes me that companies turn away or treat customers so poorly like this. Is our money no good? Can't the automakers see beyond a single purchase to the long term? Is customer loyalty not a priority for them? Honda shouldn't care whether I buy my car in the US or Canada, they should just be happy that I want to purchase one of THEIR vehicles instead of a competitor's. So my local dealer doesn't get my money for the initial sale, so what? What about all the cash he'll make from the subsequent servicing for the next 3-5 years? He should be thanking me, because I could just as easily go and buy a Subaru which would mean that Honda USA and Honda Canada would get squat from me. I know that many here have already done so but based on all the reasearch I've done (incl. Phil Edmonston's Lemon Aid Guide 2007 New Cars/Vans) - and I know I'll probably get flamed for saying this - Hondas are still considered to be more reliable long-term than Subarus, and reliability is a big deal for me.

Thanks in advance for any info you Acura/Honda folks can provide.

[jed]

Having worked around the world and interacted with many goverments along the way, some worse than others, there is a common theme to power.

While you may think the politicians actually care in any given situation, that is irrelevant. The real power lies in the various bureaucracies one layer down, that are immune to elections and public opinions. The front persons are disposable, and like the queen bee, are totally dependent on the senior deputys who feed them wax or sugar.

The Administrative layer needs to remain autonomus to hold the power. That includes doing whatever to deflect blame or not look weak. TC and the $32 immobilizer-who-cares is a case in point. They will not backtrack, even if it threatens to topple their minister, or for that matter, the government. And the Queen Bee is powerless to fire them, as they can be most effectively vendictive. Sad, but that's the reality.

All we sheep can do is work to find out, one by one, who in the faceless administration are actually responsible for these absurd administrative/regulatory decisions, publish them on the internet, and thereby strip them of their coveted cover and the ability to stonewall the political layer who really don't know dick, or don't have any independent way of making sense of dick.

Welcome to democracy. You do have the power, but you need to expose the chapter and verse in an entrenched administration such as TC that has survived and thrived across all parties and many decades of old boy public service. And in this century of the internet, you can expose lots.

Excellent Advice - anyone up for some detective work? Would be great to post this nimrod's name on the net for all to see who it was that rammed this CMVIS thing up our p00per, in collusion with the manufacturers.

[Agata]

Okay, well then can anyone write a few cars that have no problems with warranties and such after crossing the border.

Also, are there people that can bring a car over for you?

[kuba]

Here's an interesting article from back in September.
A spokesperson for BMW gives his useless thoughts...
http://www.wheels.ca/article/31673

"Dexter, a spokesperson for BMW Canada, was more forthcoming with some answers as to why Canadians are paying more.

He says adjusting prices to reflect currency fluctuations can introduce "instability" in the marketplace, impacting the residual values of leased vehicles and ticking off owners who purchased earlier at higher prices.

Then there's the negative perception of falling prices, Dexter says, which can hurt an upscale image.

"There's a reluctance to discount, which can affect the `premium' brand," he says.

Rather than tinker with sticker prices, BMW and other manufacturers prefer to give Canadians more product features for the same price.

"We've made efforts to address the currency (valuation) by adding content to our products," Dexter says. "Base models are better equipped in Canada than in the U.S."

He explains the reason Canadians will never see identical prices on both sides of the border is because the cost of doing business in the Great White North is higher.

"The U.S. has economies of scale with 10 times the population. Marketing costs are higher here by doing everything in two languages. There is only one port of entry in Canada (for BMW), while there are three or four in the U.S. Taxes are higher here.""

[kuba]

Another -what seems to be- good site...

http://www.importcartocanada.info/

[jwstewart]

Great thread. I have seen very little on where people have been exchanging there Can$ to US$. I noticed one post mention KVB. Have many people used this or are there more choices that give a fair rate? Thanks.

A previous poster recommended Globex http://www.globexfx.com/.

I filled out the online application, scanned & emailed ID, and was ready to go in less than 48 hours. Rate was approx 0.5 higher than market, and about $20 to wire the money.

[EL820]

I have seen Subaru take away rebates before, but I highly doubt it will happen next month. You should be OK.

Any chance of Subaru increasing the cash rebate in December on the 2008 Tribeca from the current $500? :D

Thanks

[dracore]

Just saw a brand new Impreza today at First Markham this late evening... and the license plate had Van Bortel signage on it :) Aha! Must have been one of you lucky RFD guys who got a great deal

[kuba]

I've looked through this thread and it's just too much, but do Mazda and Subaru honor the warranties across the border?
I'm pretty sure I read that Subaru does, but wanted to make sure in regards to them and Mazda.

I already know BMW couldn't care as well as Honda...and Toyota.

[rf134a]

Mazda: no
Subaru: Yes, but on a reimbursement basis for newer vehicles
BMW: no
Honda/Acura: no
Toyota: yes

[Kamloops]

I've looked through this thread and it's just too much, but do Mazda and Subaru honor the warranties across the border?
I'm pretty sure I read that Subaru does, but wanted to make sure in regards to them and Mazda.

I already know BMW couldn't care as well as Honda...and Toyota.


BMW and Toyota both do!

http://www.apa.ca/template.asp?DocID=253

BMW (Warranty yes, but maintenance plan not honoured and no-charge scheduled maintenance not included)

Toyota - Yes, and extended warranty also transfers. www.toyotawarrantyinfo.com has some significant savings over buying it at the dealer.

[showMeAnImport]

Here's an interesting article from back in September.
A spokesperson for BMW gives his useless thoughts...
http://www.wheels.ca/article/31673

"Dexter, a spokesperson for BMW Canada, was more forthcoming with some answers as to why Canadians are paying more.

He says adjusting prices to reflect currency fluctuations can introduce "instability" in the marketplace, impacting the residual values of leased vehicles and ticking off owners who purchased earlier at higher prices.

Then there's the negative perception of falling prices, Dexter says, which can hurt an upscale image.

"There's a reluctance to discount, which can affect the `premium' brand," he says.

Rather than tinker with sticker prices, BMW and other manufacturers prefer to give Canadians more product features for the same price.

"We've made efforts to address the currency (valuation) by adding content to our products," Dexter says. "Base models are better equipped in Canada than in the U.S."

He explains the reason Canadians will never see identical prices on both sides of the border is because the cost of doing business in the Great White North is higher.

"The U.S. has economies of scale with 10 times the population. Marketing costs are higher here by doing everything in two languages. There is only one port of entry in Canada (for BMW), while there are three or four in the U.S. Taxes are higher here.""

Holy jesus...this is friggin' hogwash....they will say anything to justify their prices....

The real funny point is the one about image....come on....the low prices don't seem to be bothering Americans....why would bother the Canadian BMW buyer....

As for the value of existing vehicles already purchased tanking...no they wouldn't because they their values would only be coming down to where they should be...ie: they wouldn't remain at the artificially jacked prices they were originally sold at...sounds good to me...

[scouzi]

Holy jesus...this is friggin' hogwash....they will say anything to justify their prices....

The real funny point is the one about image....come on....the low prices don't seem to be bothering Americans....why would bother the Canadian BMW buyer....

As for the value of existing vehicles already purchased tanking...no they wouldn't because they their values would only be coming down to where they should be...ie: they wouldn't remain at the artificially jacked prices they were originally sold at...sounds good to me...

What a bunch of crap. No one expects it to be the exactly the same price. Bu 15k-20k doesn't explain the higher cost of doing business.

[shopper-X]

What a bunch of crap. No one expects it to be the exactly the same price. Bu 15k-20k doesn't explain the higher cost of doing business.

Off & On-topic
I emailed Panasonic Canada about the high of the KX-TH111 cordless phone with Bluetooth which is $230 (use to be $300) in Canada and $100 (always) in the US and here is the email I got back.


Thank you for your email.

We understand there's been a lot of talk and confusion recently about the
strengthened Canadian dollar and product pricing across almost every industry
- it's a valid question.

The truth is that pricing isn't determined by currency alone. There are a
number of factors that come into play, for instance:

o First and foremost, the biggest factor that comes into play is that
the Canadian market is much smaller than the US, which affects how much items
cost. The US sells higher volume, which allows them to purchase at lower
costs and offer reduced pricing. It's the same as buying bulk vs. single
items at the grocery store - bulk is always cheaper.

o In Canada, we have added business costs including bilingual packaging
and product requirements that US companies don't need to fulfill.

o Finally, at Panasonic Canada our warranties are not the same as those
offered in the US. In many cases, our warranties are longer and we offer
added service levels that are not available in the US.

We understand your frustration and it's always in our best interest to ensure
Canadian consumers enjoy quality product, good value and high service levels
from Panasonic.


Regards,

Panasonic Canada Inc.
Customer Relations
www.panasonic.ca
Panasonic - Ideas For Life


What I like about this answer is the 2nd point. The warranty books have both Canadian and US material in them. There is no US book booklet as there is only one North American booklet that come is all of Panasonic's stuff.

My whole point is, It's not just car manufactures that are killing our wallets, it's every manufacture out there.

[Raikkonen]

We need to immediately raise some funds for our information session.

I just set up a "Community Account" at TD Canada Trust: "Canadians For Fair Car Pricing"

You can directly deposit your contribution at any bank.

This is a secure way for anyone to make a contribution to our cause...small large, it all will help. This account also allows complete transparency, as I want everyone who donates to be very comfortable that their money is accounted for, and it will be.

A monthly statement will show our pooled deposits, and anyone can join me at a TD bank if they ever want detailed accounting. I'll keep records of actiual expenses, with receipts of course. Don't know how I can be more fair transparent. After our protest, I'll meet anyone who wants to review this material in person, in Oakville. There is a $1 bank service charge per deposit (only 5 free deposits per month, and $5 a month account fee, fyi).

Here is the account information.

Canadians For Fair Car Pricing
Bank Branch Number 01682-004
Account Number 0168-5216953

Any questions, please just ask.

We need donations and volunteers so that we will be ready for Dec. 8.

We also need YOU to attend!!

addendum: extra proceeds will be donated to a hospital or majority's choice of charity

Link to other protest organizing thread on RFD:

http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6006088#post6006088



Bump for Scouzi's choice words....
"Holy jesus...this is friggin' hogwash....they will say anything to justify their prices...."

[Tender]

I've looked through this thread and it's just too much, but do Mazda and Subaru honor the warranties across the border?
I'm pretty sure I read that Subaru does, but wanted to make sure in regards to them and Mazda.

I already know BMW couldn't care as well as Honda...and Toyota.

:confused: Although there are people nice enough to answer your question, all you need to do is read the first page, and check out the links provided there. Do you mean reading one page is "too much" to you? :confused:

[thegradas]

Canadians For Fair Car Pricing

Bank# 004
Transit# 01682
Account# 0168-5216953

We need to immediately raise some funds for our information session.

I just set up a "Community Account" at TD Canada Trust: "Canadians For Fair Car Pricing"

You can directly deposit your contribution at any bank.

This is a secure way for anyone to make a contribution to our cause...small large, it all will help. This account also allows complete transparency, as I want everyone who donates to be very comfortable that their money is accounted for, and it will be.

A monthly statement will show our pooled deposits, and anyone can join me at a TD bank if they ever want detailed accounting. I'll keep records of actiual expenses, with receipts of course. Don't know how I can be more fair transparent. After our protest, I'll meet anyone who wants to review this material in person, in Oakville. There is a $1 bank service charge per deposit (only 5 free deposits per month, and $5 a month account fee, fyi).

Here is the account information.

Canadians For Fair Car Pricing
Bank Branch Number 01682-004
Account Number 0168-5216953

Any questions, please just ask.

We need donations and volunteers so that we will be ready for Dec. 8.

We also need YOU to attend!!

Link to other protest organizing thread on RFD:

http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6006088#post6006088

[Bincent]

Anyone know much about the difference between Paraffin based and Oil based rustproofing? Is one better/worse than the other?

Also, for anyone who bought (or is going to buy) a Subbie, did anyone purchase the extended warranty?

[reddy54]

Was the lawsuit successful?

We will probably know in 10 years when it is settled or decided. Thats how the legal system works

[DSTU]

Mazda: no
Subaru: Yes, but on a reimbursement basis for newer vehicles
BMW: no
Honda/Acura: no
Toyota: yes

BMW - YES

Warranty is fully covered. That is why they are throwing huge roadblocks to importing.

[Clee]

o In Canada, we have added business costs including bilingual packaging
and product requirements that US companies don't need to fulfill.

Aren't they translated in Spanish for the US also?

[shopper-X]

Aren't they translated in Spanish for the US also?

My friend just bought a 2005 Tacoma from the US and the Airbag label is in three languages, English, French, and Spanish...hmmm....does it cost more to translate three or two languages?

The cost of a cordless phone for someone like FS is really low. I remember I got a 5.8Ghz Panasonic cordless phone as a gift from my brother and it was $249.99 on sale and he paid $97 as his cost (cost + 10%). Mind you this was two or three years ago, but the again the cost to FS was like $84.

It's the Manufactures (vehicle, electronics, clothing, etc) setting the MSRP's and retailers are just cashing in. This whole thing about Canada being a small market does not change the cost of producing the a vehicle, cordless phone, or a sweater. It's made on the same line made the same day by the same people being paid the same wages. They don't pay a worker more to produce an item for the Canadian market.
In the example of the cordless phone, the factory in China produces a run a x number of telephones and packages them and lets say 20% come to Canada. The production cost is the same so where does the 300% markup come from?

Sorry for the rant, but I guess everyone here understands.

[whampoa]

Aren't they translated in Spanish for the US also?

Yes and no.

Yes, they are translated in Spanish for the US market.

And no, because the spanish speaking population in the US is "10 times" more than that of French speaking people in Canada.

That's why, according to the manufacturer, is always cheaper in the US because of the "economic of scales". Yes folks, different language, same BS.

[scouzi]

My friend just bought a 2005 Tacoma from the US and the Airbag label is in three languages, English, French, and Spanish...hmmm....does it cost more to translate three or two languages?

The cost of a cordless phone for someone like FS is really low. I remember I got a 5.8Ghz Panasonic cordless phone as a gift from my brother and it was $249.99 on sale and he paid $97 as his cost (cost + 10%). Mind you this was two or three years ago, but the again the cost to FS was like $84.

It's the Manufactures (vehicle, electronics, clothing, etc) setting the MSRP's and retailers are just cashing in. This whole thing about Canada being a small market does not change the cost of producing the a vehicle, cordless phone, or a sweater. It's made on the same line made the same day by the same people being paid the same wages. They don't pay a worker more to produce an item for the Canadian market.
In the example of the cordless phone, the factory in China produces a run a x number of telephones and packages them and lets say 20% come to Canada. The production cost is the same so where does the 300% markup come from?

Sorry for the rant, but I guess everyone here understands.

[/sarcasm] Just imagine the amount of money they were losing when the $CDN was at $0.80! [/sarcasm]

Now they blame it on the French speaking population. They are getting low.

It DOES add up to the cost, but not to the extent we are seeing.

[03terminator]

Mazda: no
Subaru: Yes, but on a reimbursement basis for newer vehicles
BMW: no
Honda/Acura: no
Toyota: yes

MAZDA = YES

I imported a used 2000 mile US 2006 MX-5 GT and checked with Mazda Canada and "yes" warranty valid. I had a minor warranty repair in Canada and it was covered. A local Mazda dealer has imported many low mile cars from the US and claims full Mazda Warranty.

[t_garp]

MAZDA = YES

I imported a used 2000 mile US 2006 MX-5 GT and checked with Mazda Canada and "yes" warranty valid. I had a minor warranty repair in Canada and it was covered. A local Mazda dealer has imported many low mile cars from the US and claims full Mazda Warranty.

Anything in writing? as this goes against everything that has been said before...

[john103]

Has anybody crossed a border at Alexandria Bay?
I thought they were open 24hours a day/ 7days a week.

I called in today to make sure they received the certificate of origin, the guy told me they received it yesterday and said I can export the car on Monday(?).

So I told him I was planning to export it on Sunday because I thought they were open 24/7. and he was like a automated messaging system, he kept repeating; "Monday to Frinday 8AM to 4PM", whenever I tried to explain that the website says it's open 24/7 he just kept repeating that,,

It was the worst experience I've ever had on the phone..:( :(

Could anyone here confirm that if this is true (open only for Mon~Fri 8-4)?

[dotcalamitie]

yes, the scenario on Panasonic cordless phones was hilarious. My brother paid $400 at future shop for a Panasonic cordless phone two years ago. I bought the exact same phone plus two wireless extension phones for $250 in the US. Same package in FS would have been over $650. I don't think it's FS, I think it's Panasonic. I used to have a friend that worked at Panasonic Canada when I was young and it used to get stuff at employee prices. Love to see that price list now...

[Jin]

It's the Manufactures (vehicle, electronics, clothing, etc) setting the MSRP's and retailers are just cashing in. This whole thing about Canada being a small market does not change the cost of producing the a vehicle, cordless phone, or a sweater. It's made on the same line made the same day by the same people being paid the same wages. They don't pay a worker more to produce an item for the Canadian market.
In the example of the cordless phone, the factory in China produces a run a x number of telephones and packages them and lets say 20% come to Canada. The production cost is the same so where does the 300% markup come from?

Sorry for the rant, but I guess everyone here understands.

I think you guys are kind of missing the boat here. We can argue about cost all we want, but unless we're discussing the company's decision to bring the product to Canada at all, the cost does not have a directly correlation to the price of the product.

It's like hockey, the owners argued that they needed a salary cap and Joe Sixpack were sold on the idea that lower wages = lower ticket prices. In reality an owner is going to charge as much as he can, regardless of his costs.

[Jin]

Could anyone here confirm that if this is true (open only for Mon~Fri 8-4)?

I can't speak for that one crossing, but usually the border is open 24/7 but the facilities (RIV) to bring a car accross only work M-F 8-4.

[propofol]

What are the legal precedents for a company changing their warranty coverage mid-term? Specifically, if someone buys a new BMW in the USA, whose warranty is also honoured in Canada, could BMW turn around and say mid-warranty that "Sorry, no more coverage for you!" and leave the buyer SOL? Or, if they cover it at the start, do they have to honour their agreement and continue all the way through?

It's not BMW per se that I care about, more about the Canadian laws for this sort of funny business, because I could see one or more manufacturer try to pull this one if their negative incentives (such as the recall letter/inspection fiasco) don't work to reduce transborder sales... Thanks.

[whampoa]

Anything in writing? as this goes against everything that has been said before...

I think the key sentence here is "a local Mazda dealer has imported many low mile cars from the US and claims full Mazda Warranty."

You see if he start charging for warranty work done on other imported Mazda customer, than he will have to start charging on his own import.

Otherwise some disgruntle customers will start reporting to HQ about this little matter of warranty coverage.

[jzy]

Has anybody crossed a border at Alexandria Bay?
I thought they were open 24hours a day/ 7days a week.

I called in today to make sure they received the certificate of origin, the guy told me they received it yesterday and said I can export the car on Monday(?).

So I told him I was planning to export it on Sunday because I thought they were open 24/7. and he was like a automated messaging system, he kept repeating; "Monday to Frinday 8AM to 4PM", whenever I tried to explain that the website says it's open 24/7 he just kept repeating that,,

It was the worst experience I've ever had on the phone..:( :(

Could anyone here confirm that if this is true (open only for Mon~Fri 8-4)?

From http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/toolbox/contacts/ports/ny/0708.xml

Contact Information: Vehicle Exports, 0800-1600 hrs. Mon.-Fri. (excluding holidays), call 315-482-2261 x 295 Original documents are required at the port a minimum of 72 hours prior to export. Faxed or photocopied documents are not accepted. Directions to the vehicle export office: Take Rte. 81N to exit 52, left at stop sign, drive thru 2nd stop sign. Park in parking lot. Vehicle exports are processed in building marked Commerical Processing Center. Vehicle must be present at time of export. Please bring a copy of documents at time of export to facilitate processing. Original documents will be returned at time of export.

[john103]

From http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/toolbox/contacts/ports/ny/0708.xml

Contact Information: Vehicle Exports, 0800-1600 hrs. Mon.-Fri. (excluding holidays), call 315-482-2261 x 295 Original documents are required at the port a minimum of 72 hours prior to export. Faxed or photocopied documents are not accepted. Directions to the vehicle export office: Take Rte. 81N to exit 52, left at stop sign, drive thru 2nd stop sign. Park in parking lot. Vehicle exports are processed in building marked Commerical Processing Center. Vehicle must be present at time of export. Please bring a copy of documents at time of export to facilitate processing. Original documents will be returned at time of export.

Thanks a lot for copy&paste.

I thought that was only for contacting them not the actual process.:(

[03terminator]

Anything in writing? as this goes against everything that has been said before...

I have heard on various forums that the Mazda warranty is invalid. I can assure you that this is not true. Mazda will not allow its US dealers to sell new to Canadians. So, I purchased a slightly used 06 mx-5 Gt from Florida last March/07. I contacted Mazda Canada by phone (FEB/07) and they informed me that the Warranty would be valid in Canada. I had an electric trunk switch break and contacted my local dealer regarding warranty on my US car. He said no problem (before I told him about the switch). I brought the car in and had it fixed under warranty, $85.00 (Sept07). I have heard speculation that the Mazda warranty is not valid but no proof. Perhaps they have changed their policy post or prior to my purchase.

As for the dealer, they said they were selling US cars and "the Mazda warranty is valid" It had nothing to do with my car. A dealer would not do warranty work if it wasn't covered.

So, in my experience the warranty is valid, end of story. If you question that, check with Mazda Canada.

[DSTU]

Has anybody crossed a border at Alexandria Bay?
I thought they were open 24hours a day/ 7days a week.

I called in today to make sure they received the certificate of origin, the guy told me they received it yesterday and said I can export the car on Monday(?).

So I told him I was planning to export it on Sunday because I thought they were open 24/7. and he was like a automated messaging system, he kept repeating; "Monday to Frinday 8AM to 4PM", whenever I tried to explain that the website says it's open 24/7 he just kept repeating that,,

It was the worst experience I've ever had on the phone..:( :(

Could anyone here confirm that if this is true (open only for Mon~Fri 8-4)?

Great way to piss off Homeland Security - watch your file suddenly disappear.

Next time play nice with them, they are trying to keep out non-good-gooders.

[newlegacyowner]

Aren't they translated in Spanish for the US also?

BTW, my US bought Subaru has both the airbag warning on the visor and the gas recommendation inside the gas flap both in english and french, so it is obviously done.

[Ebola]

Has anybody crossed a border at Alexandria Bay?
I thought they were open 24hours a day/ 7days a week.

I called in today to make sure they received the certificate of origin, the guy told me they received it yesterday and said I can export the car on Monday(?).

So I told him I was planning to export it on Sunday because I thought they were open 24/7. and he was like a automated messaging system, he kept repeating; "Monday to Frinday 8AM to 4PM", whenever I tried to explain that the website says it's open 24/7 he just kept repeating that,,

It was the worst experience I've ever had on the phone..:( :(

Could anyone here confirm that if this is true (open only for Mon~Fri 8-4)?

Well the border is never closed....

But the American export office for vehicles only uses regular buisness hours.

You can tell him what the website says until you are blue in the face, I know that's not the case, and so yes, he is just going to keep telling you the truth, which is that no the export facilities are not open 24/7.

Welcome to Lansdowne.

[ac328]

WARNING: The following article contains high levels of BS. Reader discretion is advised.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Attention shoppers: beware red tape
JEREMY CATO

From Thursday's Globe and Mail

November 29, 2007 at 12:00 AM EST

According to the North American Automobile Trade Association (NAATA), a trade group of vehicle importers and exporters, the number of vehicles bought in the Unites States and imported into Canada is on pace to reach 164,000 this year.

That's a large number. However, according to DesRosiers Automotive Consultants of Richmond Hill, Ont., most of these vehicles are used and not new. President Dennis DesRosiers estimates that just 20,000-25,000 of the projected 164,000 imports for 2007 will be new models.

But he also points out that this year Canadians will buy about 4.4 million light vehicles new and used, in total. Of that, new-vehicle sales in Canada are on pace to hit more than 1.8 million this year, more than 11 times the number of imports — new and used — projected by NAATA.

"I would argue that 150,000 imports represent a very small fraction of the (total vehicle) market," DesRosiers said in a note to clients.


Look at all the factors
The numbers show that the vast majority of Canadians continue to buy their vehicles in Canada. The conclusion: They are unwilling to go through the hassle of importing, and they are satisfied with the value they receive by buying in Canada.

Canadian manufacturers and distributors have moved to increase vehicle content and adjust transaction prices and finance and lease rates in order to remain competitive with U.S. pricing. This is necessary because a majority of Canadians live in reasonably close proximity to the Canada-U.S. border. The option to buy in the United States does exist.

But that does not mean it is easy and uncomplicated for an individual to buy and import a vehicle from the United States. And not all vehicles sold in the United States are admissible to Canada, based on Canadian federal regulations.

For instance, a controversial new federal safety standard that came into effect Sept. 1, 2007, requires all new passenger vehicles imported into Canada to have an approved anti-theft immobilization system. The regulation means that cars unable to meet the standard are tagged "inadmissible" for use here by Transport Canada.

Finding out about and meeting such government requirements are two of the challenges facing Canadians importing vehicles from the United States. And there are others.

Indeed, vehicles on both sides of the border aren't always similarly equipped, and modifications have to be made to conform to Transport Canada regulations. Moreover, when owners go to resell their cars, those bought in the United States are considered "grey-market" vehicles. That is, they weren't built for the Canadian market and this can make them more difficult to sell.

Those considering a cross-border import must also consider the new-vehicle warranty. Not all are honoured in Canada and those that are may still pose difficulties for owners. For instance, owners may have to pay for warranty work done in Canada and then seek reimbursement from the U.S. sales arm of the particular manufacturer.

Another consideration: Cross-border leases and purchases cannot be financed through auto makers. This means Canadians shopping in the United States are not able to take advantage of generous lease and finance rates now offered widely in Canada. Instead, consumers shopping in the United States will need to arrange bank financing or lines of credit or pay cash.

Those who do wish to import a new vehicle from the United States will find the process outlined by the Registrar of Imported Vehicles at www.riv.ca.

In a nutshell, the process looks like this:

1. Can you import it?

First, you need to find out if the vehicle you want to import is admissible and can be modified to meet Canadian regulations for things like bumpers. Not all vehicles sold in the United States meet or can be modified to meet Canadian standards, though most can be. All 2008 General Motors, Hyundai and Suzuki models are not admissible; some Ford, Honda and Toyota models are also not admissible.

Buyers/importers would be wise to contact the appropriate manufacturers to verify admissibility and to consult the Transport Canada list of admissible vehicles at www.tc.gc.ca/roadsafety.

2. Making changes

If modifications are required, owners must find out what they are and arrange to have them done within 45 days of importing the vehicle. Owners must ensure that all modifications are done by those authorized to do so or the new-vehicle warranty will be put in jeopardy. All costs for modifications are solely the responsibility of the owners.

The costs associated with modifications can be high, especially if they involve improving the performance of such things as bumpers. Remember, Canada has a tougher bumper standard than the United States.

Also, U.S. vehicles have speedometers and odometers in the English system or in miles. It is possible to change the instruments to reflect Canada's metric system, but this can be costly and might cause confusion if a warranty claim is made at a later date.

3. Safety recalls

Owner/importers need to be sure all safety recall notices have been dealt with before importing the vehicle.

4. Duty and taxes

The Canada Border Services Agency provides details on any additional duty and taxes, above and beyond the standard $195 fee, plus GST, required when importing any vehicle.

5. Documents

Importers/owners must be sure to have all the right documentation: title, registration, sales receipt, statement of compliance label and recall clearance letter and any other required documentation.

6. Provincial rules

Some provinces have requirements for importing a vehicle and those must also be met.

7. Insurance

Imported vehicles must be insured.

8. Clearing customs

Importer/owners must notify U.S. Customs 72 hours in advance of their intent to export a vehicle to Canada.

It is worth noting that more than one analyst has found that most vehicles priced at less than $30,000 in Canada are not available in the United States at a great savings if any at all — or at least the savings are not great enough to justify the time, effort and cost of importing.

Beware flood-damaged vehicles

A number of vehicles sold in the United States may have been damaged by flooding along the U.S. Gulf Coast. Canadians are allowed to import flood-damaged vehicles, but these vehicles will be branded as "salvage" by the Registrar of Imported Vehicles.

However, at the provincial level these vehicles may be deemed "Nonrepairable" and thus can only be used as scrap or for parts.

[NAFTAGO]

Why do they always miss the first question??

1.-Does the Car maker block the sale to Canadians?

We all know that even if an aircraft carrier is Admissible IT DOES NOT MATTER if they do not sell it to you.
And this is besides the immobilizer fiasco.

Another points that ALWAYS seem to miss are:
-Nobody pays MSRP in the US
-Car delivery charges in the US are half the ones in Canada in most cases
-This article is a paid advertisement

[MMMM]

WARNING: The following article contains high levels of BS. Reader discretion is advised.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Attention shoppers: beware red tape
JEREMY CATO

From Thursday's Globe and Mail

November 29, 2007 at 12:00 AM EST

A quick reply to Jeremy

jcato@globeandmail.com

Hi Jeremy,

Great article: Attention shoppers: beware red tape.

Clear, concise, well researched. Yes for the first two but the facts could be a little clearer. You are free to contact me and I will gladly clear up some misconceptions your article would raise with the average shopper. Plus while your looking for new stories how about the following :


Why are freight and PDI more than double US amounts?
How come the cost of recall letters from some manufacturers jumped more than 100% in the last few days?
How to purchase a vehicle in the states and save thousands! (imagine the press from this one!!)
Is there collusion in the autmobile industry?
Who is Dennis DesRosiers and why is he able fabricate such intersting tales?


Looking forward to hearing from you.

Regards,

[Dreyfus]

Here's an interesting article from back in September.
A spokesperson for BMW gives his useless thoughts...
http://www.wheels.ca/article/31673

"Dexter, a spokesperson for BMW Canada, was more forthcoming with some answers as to why Canadians are paying more.

He says adjusting prices to reflect currency fluctuations can introduce "instability" in the marketplace, impacting the residual values of leased vehicles and ticking off owners who purchased earlier at higher prices.

Then there's the negative perception of falling prices, Dexter says, which can hurt an upscale image.

"There's a reluctance to discount, which can affect the `premium' brand," he says.

Rather than tinker with sticker prices, BMW and other manufacturers prefer to give Canadians more product features for the same price.

"We've made efforts to address the currency (valuation) by adding content to our products," Dexter says. "Base models are better equipped in Canada than in the U.S."

He explains the reason Canadians will never see identical prices on both sides of the border is because the cost of doing business in the Great White North is higher.

"The U.S. has economies of scale with 10 times the population. Marketing costs are higher here by doing everything in two languages. There is only one port of entry in Canada (for BMW), while there are three or four in the U.S. Taxes are higher here.""

In a nutshell- BMW overcharged Canadians for the past 3 years (period of most leases) and must now overcharge you for the next 3 years in order not to make leaseholders angry. Actually the leaseholders will walk away from their leases at expiry leaving BMW, dealers and financial institutions holding the bag. The razor sharp Bavarian logic that I expect out of Munich is sadly lacking, time to send in the jungen and maedchen with the lederhosen and dirndls and send the incumbent management back to Munich for sharpening of faculties.

[Kamloops]

Anyone buy a new car in California? How did you avoid CA state tax?

Thanks is advance for any suggestions

[t_garp]

Anyone buy a new car in California? How did you avoid CA state tax?

Thanks is advance for any suggestions

Buy it in Oregon instead. Most of the gently used cars being sold in Oregon are sourced from California.

Check out www.gr8kars.com the guys is an auto broker in Portland who will get one at an auction 4 u for a fee.

[t_garp]

I don't know what gotten into me lately but I'm writing letters like crazy these days. We got to get the word out guys. Here is my letter to the G&M's Jeremy Cato.

Dear Mr. Cato,

First off I would like to commend on you on the quality of your car reviews as they are generally insightful and honest. However, I and many of your loyal readers of Globe Auto have been questioning your credibility due to your recent lack of “intestinal fortitude” shown in dealing with the cross border car issue.

In November 28, 2007’s two articles entitled “Attention shoppers: beware red tape” and “Look at all the factors” you do nothing more of joining the ranks of the fear mongering hoi oligoi. The second article clearly show a complete lack of due care and reveals that you have done little if any due diligence to verify the “HOT DEALS” available to us Canadians.

I would like to remind you that the publication that employs you caters to the business crowd and as such the typical reader has a grasp of 3rd grade math and can differentiate between price differences. I am shocked at the level of patronizing and fear mongering in your article. In a business publication positioned at business professionals I would have expected you to at least have picked up a calculator to validate the “claims” of pricing parity you make in your article. Fortunately for you, I have taken the time to compare prices and leases on a very popular car in both the US and Canada. I have selected the 2008 (2007 for Canada as the 2008 has a higher lease rate of 3%) BMW 328i. BMW has just, as you proudly boast in your article, their lowest lease rates EVER! Wow, what an event. Let us see how the numbers unfold below.

BMW Canada’s MOST generous offer EVER
2007 BMW 328i – Base Model Manual Transmission
MSRP: 41,000
Lease rate: 2.0%
Term: 39 months
Payment: $399
Down payment: $6,045 (4,050 + 1,995 PDI)
Total Lease obligation: $21,606
Residual: $23,370

BMW USA’s regular offer
2008 BMW 328i – Base Model BUT includes Automatic transmission which is $1,600 EXTRA in Canada
MSRP: 34,450
Lease rate: ?%
Term: 36 months
Payment: $359
Down payment: $2,500
Total Lease obligation: $12,924
Residual: $22,048

WOW! Can you believe the what 5 minutes of research can uncover. So BMW Canada’s best deal EVER is still $8,682 MORE than the similar deal that can be had in the US.


Also to further compound my disgust with BMW Canada, Effective November 26, 2007 they have colluded with BMW USA for them to stop issuing vehicle recall letters or Vehicle Inquiry reports. The letter which now costs $350 simply states that there are no outstanding recalls. In my opinion, this letter is the property of the vehicle owner and NOT the manufacturer as the consumer has the right to know if there are ANY safety recalls outstanding on his vehicle as a result of manufacturer errors. In no way can the consumer be at fault for what is in this report and the manufacturer is obliged by law to fix any outstanding recalls as it is a safety issue. On top of that BMW Canada has instructed their Canadian dealers to not perform warranty work on the cars (even thought the cars have a North American warranty) unless the customers pays a $500 fee to validate the cars admissibility. If this is their official position, it is in contradiction to the terms of the warranty. And if BMW Canada has serviced an American car anytime in the past without this $500 fee it is further proof that this is simply anti-competitive behaviour.

These charges are a direct contravention of part IV, section 45 of the competition act which clearly states that “(1) Every one who conspires, combines, agrees or arranges with another person: (a) to limit unduly the facilities for transporting, producing, manufacturing, supplying, storing or dealing in any product, (b) to prevent, limit or lessen, unduly, the manufacture or production of a product or to enhance unreasonably the price thereof, (c) to prevent or lessen, unduly, competition in the production, manufacture, purchase, barter, sale, storage, rental, transportation or supply of a product, or in the price of insurance on persons or property, or (d) to otherwise restrain or injure competition unduly, is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years or to a fine not exceeding ten million dollars or to both.”

BMW Canada is clearly acting in a collusive manner as services that were once free only months ago are now levied with excessive fees to stem the ability of the consumer to exercise their freedoms and guaranteed under the competition act.

I for one have filed a formal complaint with the Canadian Competition bureau. I urge you to IMMEDIATELY stop spreading misinformation and half truths you are being fed by you cronies at corporate head offices as this is affecting thousands of Canadian consumers. Per a recent study by Scotia Bank, Imports of vehicles bought by Canadians in the United States hit a record of almost 25,000 ion October 2007, are on pace to reach another 22,000 to 23,000 in November and will likely hit an annual record when the results for all of 2007 are tallied.

Please conduct yourself accordingly Mr. Cato. You readers are astute and will not simply accept “facts” force fed to them by you acting as a conduit for big business interest. I ask you to remember the reasons why you entered journalism, the ideals you had when you started. Now read you article over again and ask yourself what happened to that journalistic integrity.

Kind Regards,

A disappointed Reader.

[leafsrule06]

Just emailed this off to DesRosiers.......

To Mr. DesRosiers:

I see the articles coming out in the papers every day and laugh to hear what the opinion of DesRosiers is.....about how the import process is too much of a hassle and how the cars in the US are not the same specs as the Canadian cars. Well I have news...the Subaru's are pretty much exactly the same specs and the difference is not about $5K as I've seen DesRosiers saying the average saving is on a US bought car. On a Tribeca LTD I'm going to save about 20K and will take one day to complete the import process with the help of a knowledgeable US dealer who has sold to numerous Canadians.

How about the Frieght and PDI being on average double in Canada and in some cases the vehicle was built in Canada and being sold with twice as much freight than in the US?

We, the ones who are proof that tonnes of money can be saved, are going to the media and going to get through to the Canadian comsumers that more of them should follow the easy steps in importing a car and save themselves thousands of dollars.

I don't know who Mr DesRosier is but clearly there must be some influence from the Canadian automotive industry for him to keep preaching false information to the media. At the end of the day I know that I'm saving 20K for the same vehicle built in the same plant as the one that would cost me 20K more in Canada. As a person who may have bought the same vehicle for 20K more do you not think that they will feel taken advantage of when they learn of stories such as mines and the numerous others importing from the US? Did I mention that most Subaru's require zero modifications as well?

Please see www.carburner.com and see the Wall of Savers for the examples of savings by importers.

You should interview some people who have imported and share some of their thoughts with the media. That is if we haven't already been quoted in the media by then.

Another happy importer.

[Kamloops]

Buy it in Oregon instead. Most of the gently used cars being sold in Oregon are sourced from California.

Check out www.gr8kars.com the guys is an auto broker in Portland who will get one at an auction 4 u for a fee.

I am buying a new 2008 Tacoma TRD Double Cab 4x4, so if you know someone in oregon that will sell me one for 27,300 USD please let me know

[Yorker86]

I don't know what gotten into me lately but I'm writing letters like crazy these days. We got to get the word out guys. Here is my letter to the G&M's Jeremy Cato.

Great email. Just finished mailing it to Mr. Cato.

[agepag]

I don't know what gotten into me lately but I'm writing letters like crazy these days. We got to get the word out guys. Here is my letter to the G&M's Jeremy Cato.

I love reading your letters, they are so professional. Have you ever thought of calling up any of the newspapers and asking them if they would be interested in you writting an article for them on this subject? The bigger papers might turn you down, but the smaller guys might just give you a shot! This is what we as Canadians need, a voice! Just a thought.

[DSTU]

WARNING: The following article contains high levels of BS. Reader discretion is advised.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Attention shoppers: beware red tape
JEREMY CATO

From Thursday's Globe and Mail

November 29, 2007 at 12:00 AM EST

According to the North American Automobile Trade Association (NAATA), a trade group of vehicle importers and exporters, the number of vehicles bought in the Unites States and imported into Canada is on pace to reach 164,000 this year.

That's a large number. However, according to DesRosiers Automotive Consultants of Richmond Hill, Ont., most of these vehicles are used and not new. President Dennis DesRosiers estimates that just 20,000-25,000 of the projected 164,000 imports for 2007 will be new models.

But he also points out that this year Canadians will buy about 4.4 million light vehicles new and used, in total. Of that, new-vehicle sales in Canada are on pace to hit more than 1.8 million this year, more than 11 times the number of imports — new and used — projected by NAATA.

"I would argue that 150,000 imports represent a very small fraction of the (total vehicle) market," DesRosiers said in a note to clients.


Look at all the factors
The numbers show that the vast majority of Canadians continue to buy their vehicles in Canada. The conclusion: They are unwilling to go through the hassle of importing, and they are satisfied with the value they receive by buying in Canada.

Canadian manufacturers and distributors have moved to increase vehicle content and adjust transaction prices and finance and lease rates in order to remain competitive with U.S. pricing. This is necessary because a majority of Canadians live in reasonably close proximity to the Canada-U.S. border. The option to buy in the United States does exist.

But that does not mean it is easy and uncomplicated for an individual to buy and import a vehicle from the United States. And not all vehicles sold in the United States are admissible to Canada, based on Canadian federal regulations.

For instance, a controversial new federal safety standard that came into effect Sept. 1, 2007, requires all new passenger vehicles imported into Canada to have an approved anti-theft immobilization system. The regulation means that cars unable to meet the standard are tagged "inadmissible" for use here by Transport Canada.

Finding out about and meeting such government requirements are two of the challenges facing Canadians importing vehicles from the United States. And there are others.

Indeed, vehicles on both sides of the border aren't always similarly equipped, and modifications have to be made to conform to Transport Canada regulations. Moreover, when owners go to resell their cars, those bought in the United States are considered "grey-market" vehicles. That is, they weren't built for the Canadian market and this can make them more difficult to sell.

Those considering a cross-border import must also consider the new-vehicle warranty. Not all are honoured in Canada and those that are may still pose difficulties for owners. For instance, owners may have to pay for warranty work done in Canada and then seek reimbursement from the U.S. sales arm of the particular manufacturer.

Another consideration: Cross-border leases and purchases cannot be financed through auto makers. This means Canadians shopping in the United States are not able to take advantage of generous lease and finance rates now offered widely in Canada. Instead, consumers shopping in the United States will need to arrange bank financing or lines of credit or pay cash.

Those who do wish to import a new vehicle from the United States will find the process outlined by the Registrar of Imported Vehicles at www.riv.ca.

In a nutshell, the process looks like this:

1. Can you import it?

First, you need to find out if the vehicle you want to import is admissible and can be modified to meet Canadian regulations for things like bumpers. Not all vehicles sold in the United States meet or can be modified to meet Canadian standards, though most can be. All 2008 General Motors, Hyundai and Suzuki models are not admissible; some Ford, Honda and Toyota models are also not admissible.

Buyers/importers would be wise to contact the appropriate manufacturers to verify admissibility and to consult the Transport Canada list of admissible vehicles at www.tc.gc.ca/roadsafety.

2. Making changes

If modifications are required, owners must find out what they are and arrange to have them done within 45 days of importing the vehicle. Owners must ensure that all modifications are done by those authorized to do so or the new-vehicle warranty will be put in jeopardy. All costs for modifications are solely the responsibility of the owners.

The costs associated with modifications can be high, especially if they involve improving the performance of such things as bumpers. Remember, Canada has a tougher bumper standard than the United States.

Also, U.S. vehicles have speedometers and odometers in the English system or in miles. It is possible to change the instruments to reflect Canada's metric system, but this can be costly and might cause confusion if a warranty claim is made at a later date.

3. Safety recalls

Owner/importers need to be sure all safety recall notices have been dealt with before importing the vehicle.

4. Duty and taxes

The Canada Border Services Agency provides details on any additional duty and taxes, above and beyond the standard $195 fee, plus GST, required when importing any vehicle.

5. Documents

Importers/owners must be sure to have all the right documentation: title, registration, sales receipt, statement of compliance label and recall clearance letter and any other required documentation.

6. Provincial rules

Some provinces have requirements for importing a vehicle and those must also be met.

7. Insurance

Imported vehicles must be insured.

8. Clearing customs

Importer/owners must notify U.S. Customs 72 hours in advance of their intent to export a vehicle to Canada.

It is worth noting that more than one analyst has found that most vehicles priced at less than $30,000 in Canada are not available in the United States at a great savings if any at all — or at least the savings are not great enough to justify the time, effort and cost of importing.

Beware flood-damaged vehicles

A number of vehicles sold in the United States may have been damaged by flooding along the U.S. Gulf Coast. Canadians are allowed to import flood-damaged vehicles, but these vehicles will be branded as "salvage" by the Registrar of Imported Vehicles.

However, at the provincial level these vehicles may be deemed "Nonrepairable" and thus can only be used as scrap or for parts.

My reply to Jeremy - see if he has the balls to respond back........NOT.

1. Can you import it?
Many cars are admissible to Canada from the US - riv.ca
2. Making changes
MOST vehicles are identical in the US and Canadian market and NO changes are required. Something like DRL are software changes based on some vehicles - BMW for instance.
3. Safety recalls
You can contact the Manufacturer and get it, some you can even get it from their website - Honda. However BMW is now prohibiting you from doing so - I guess since they want to keep their outrageous markups in Canada.
4. Duty and taxes
WHAT? - you pay these here anyway. Most sought after cars are made in NAFTA, BMW, Subara - hell even the Lexus RX 350 - made right here in Ontario - NO DUTY.
5. Documents
Don't you always need documents for a car purchase. Hmm - a little work for a few documents for a Subaru WRX - $22k + 6.1% duty in the States or $35k here.
6. Provincial rules
None that I know of - any that you know of Jeremy?
7. Insurance
Duh - this is a given, as per Onatrio law if you have an existing insurance policy any car purchase is covered for 14 days, even ones bought in the US.
8. Clearing customs
Some many people are importing cars that US Custom's don't even do a physical check of the vehicle. You can fax or have the dealer courier these documents - no big deal.

[leafsrule06]

I've contacted the Richmond Hill Liberal to see if they will give us a story.....

Hello,

I am in the process of importing a new vehicle from the US and in the process saving about 20K. I know of numerous people who have saved thousands and we want to share our stories and the simple steps to follow. We would love to be featured in the Liberal via a storey, maybe a picture of some of the proud importers with their new cars as well.

Please indicate whether the Liberal would be interested in doing such an article as we are finding so many of the big newspapers quoting industry sources who say the process is too difficult and the vehicles are not similarly equipped and that the overall savings are not that big. We would like the true message voiced and of course the large paper may be reluctant to do this.

Thank you,

[ziploc]

i just learned that hyundai Canada is acting like riv...

since 22 now they changed theirs policy and the warranty isn't anymore honored.......

i bought my car before that date.....and they saying that isn't valid anymore, they just decided to change from white o black in one day....
and don't even honor theirs previous agreement

[Dreyfus]

The Richmond Hill Liberal has become a wrapper for advertising, it is delivered door to door free. There is usually a substantial amount of auto mfr and dealer advertising in it. It is owned by Toronto Star group which is choc a bloc with auto advertising. Best bet are alternative publications with little auto advertising such as Now Magazine in Toronto and Georgia Straight in Vancouver. Any time you see an article in mainstream newspapers and you have an opportunity to comment do so. The Globe and Mail usually has a comment attachment to articles, the journalist who wrote the article is likely to check the feedback and this is how we can influence the mainstream media. Of course not buying what they advertise is an even surer way to influence them.

[Agata]

Mazda: no
Subaru: Yes, but on a reimbursement basis for newer vehicles
BMW: no
Honda/Acura: no
Toyota: yes


Any other ones you can help out with?

A lot of people are talking about BMW's, but let's be honest how many of us can actually afford one? (not meeeee) :)

Anywho, anyone has a list of other vehicles that honour the warranty once it's crossed the US border into Canada?

[ac328]

Any other ones you can help out with?

A lot of people are talking about BMW's, but let's be honest how many of us can actually afford one? (not meeeee) :)

Anywho, anyone has a list of other vehicles that honour the warranty once it's crossed the US border into Canada?

Doesn't the www.apa.ca website cover this?

Anyway, AFAIK:

- Ford
- Infiniti (though not Nissan, oddly, unless car has been US-registered for 6 months)
- Toyota/Lexus
- Volvo and
- VW/Audi

are among the dwindling number of carmakers offering full warranty coverage on US-sourced cars.

I was going to wait until March to get a new car, but may have to move in before Infiniti shuts down the party...

[fugazi11]

I am getting close to pulling the trigger on either a tribeca or the RX350 in the states. I have quotes for both but before I do I was wondering if anybody has heard how much of a discount acura is offering on the RDX and Lexus on the RX here in Canada? I was speaking to someone who said they read that Lexus was giving discounts as much as 12K here. Doesn't sound realistic but wanted to check.

Thanks in advance.

[GoogleFish]

I am getting close to pulling the trigger on either a tribeca or the RX350 in the states. I have quotes for both but before I do I was wondering if anybody has heard how much of a discount acura is offering on the RDX and Lexus on the RX here in Canada? I was speaking to someone who said they read that Lexus was giving discounts as much as 12K here. Doesn't sound realistic but wanted to check.

Thanks in advance.

Acura is offering $3,000 off base RDX model and $4,000 off tech package here in Canada. There is special financing if you don't take the cash discount, but you can't take both the rebate and the financing special.

[Monsieurmaggot]

I love reading your letters, they are so professional. Have you ever thought of calling up any of the newspapers and asking them if they would be interested in you writting an article for them on this subject? The bigger papers might turn you down, but the smaller guys might just give you a shot! This is what we as Canadians need, a voice! Just a thought.

The reporter who did that in Victoria was forced to resign and the editor was fired when the local GM dealer complained to the paper's owner.

That's what happens to the little guy....

Specific details are posted much earlier in this thread.

[dsds]

Roy Green is doing a follow up this weekend on last weekends show about importing. Good talk show to take in.

[flatman]

WARNING: The following article contains high levels of BS. Reader discretion is advised.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Attention shoppers: beware red tape
JEREMY CATO

From Thursday's Globe and Mail

November 29, 2007 at 12:00 AM EST

According to the North American Automobile Trade Association (NAATA), a trade group of vehicle importers and exporters, the number of vehicles bought in the Unites States and imported into Canada is on pace to reach 164,000 this year.

That's a large number. However, according to DesRosiers Automotive Consultants of Richmond Hill, Ont., most of these vehicles are used and not new. President Dennis DesRosiers estimates that just 20,000-25,000 of the projected 164,000 imports for 2007 will be new models.

But he also points out that this year Canadians will buy about 4.4 million light vehicles new and used, in total. Of that, new-vehicle sales in Canada are on pace to hit more than 1.8 million this year, more than 11 times the number of imports — new and used — projected by NAATA.

"I would argue that 150,000 imports represent a very small fraction of the (total vehicle) market," DesRosiers said in a note to clients.


Look at all the factors
The numbers show that the vast majority of Canadians continue to buy their vehicles in Canada. The conclusion: They are unwilling to go through the hassle of importing, and they are satisfied with the value they receive by buying in Canada.

...........
Beware flood-damaged vehicles

A number of vehicles sold in the United States may have been damaged by flooding along the U.S. Gulf Coast. Canadians are allowed to import flood-damaged vehicles, but these vehicles will be branded as "salvage" by the Registrar of Imported Vehicles.

However, at the provincial level these vehicles may be deemed "Nonrepairable" and thus can only be used as scrap or for parts.

Go to Globe and Mail and see the comments for this story. So far over 40 people have posted, none of them supporting this "journalist's" stance.

Post your feelings:

http://www.globeauto.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071129.wh-BorderDuty-1129/CommentStory/specialGlobeAuto/home

[Monsieurmaggot]

I understand that a large Western New York Subaru dealer has been sitting on the sidelines quietly reading these posts and enjoying the extra traffic in their showroom. (Okay, they called me to say they're also reading this post daily).

Until now they were hesitant to stir the pot (remember Subaru Canada's also reading this blog) and took whatever business came their way.

While I can't say for certain, I understand that Karl, John and Xan in WNY should expect some additional competition.

With the year-end fast approaching, expect to see REBATES, Internet incentives ($75-$100) plus and additional incentives of at least $1000 in holdbacks coming to the table.

Some folks say that the border states (Subaru in particular) have attempted to cash in on the sales to Canadians by charging more money. Some even accused my dealer's sales rep. of trying that approach. (Gome Pyle said: SHAME SHAME) I'd be curious to see it this is in fact the case.

Remember adding my $750 factory rebate my discount totalled $1825 OFF INVOICE. That was in the spring.

You can do better for year end. I would imagine you could easily get much better deals.

I know last December one dealer offered a limited-time year-end $500 incentive to get their sales numbers up.

I swear, I should get a commission or at least a license plate bracket. I would love to advertise my US purchased vehicle.

Let the fun begin...

[03terminator]

MAZDA WARRANTY VALID according to:

http://www.apa.ca/template.asp?DocID=253#MAZDA

[Lost Horizon]

..

I swear, I should get a commission or at least a license plate bracket. I would love to advertise my US purchased vehicle.

Let the fun begin...

I might have a few left over from Hawaii...

[t_garp]

Another one, I know I said in the Letter I would file under the Access to Information Act, but I just did. It cost $5 to start the process. I want to see the documents that TC relied upon to change their list. They better be bulletproof as to why one can retroactively change the list...I doubt it! I think that this is very good ammo. They really f**ked up on that one.


The Honourable Lawrence Cannon
Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities
Tower C - 330 Sparks St.
K1A 0N5
mintc@tc.gc.ca

RE: Allowing Car manufacturer to control the RIV admissibility list.

Dear Mr. Cannon,

I am writing to you to address a deeply troubling event that has just occurred as at November 26, 2007. As at that date Transport Canada changed the admissibility requirements for importing a BMW into Canada. Previously listed vehicles, for which I assume admissibility was previously confirmed, were removed from the list and honest tax-paying Canadians were put at the mercy of the Germans. I can only assume that this was a temporary error in judgement by an overzealous Transport Canada employee. As I cannot fathom how cars which were clearly listed as FULLY admissible just days ago are suddenly and unjustly wrenched from the list.

The actions of transport Canada are not only immoral and irresponsible, they are borderline illegal. It is unthinkable that Transport Canada will allow BMW Canada to dictate what is admissible and give them the ability to remove previously admissible vehicles from the list. Transport Canada has the admissibility information on file and I want access to it. I hope that you take immediate action or I will have to file under the Access to Information Act to see a copy of the previously acceptable admissibility documents AND whatever correspondence BMW Canada sent to Transport Canada on or before November 26, 2007 to convince your department that the vehicles were no longer admissible. Section 2.1 of the Access to Information Act gives the right of access to this information as the records under the control of you ministry should be made available to the public.

Under the old procedure, a Canadian drove to the US, picked up his car, exported it from US customs, and went to Canada customs, paid taxes and duty. Went home filed the RIV documents, waited for the forms, got it inspected at Canadian Tire (passed as NO modifications were required) and waited 2 – 5 business days to get the paperwork finalized. A relatively painless process.

The new procedure is as follows:
1. Call BMW Canada in advance to give them the VIN # of the vehicle you plan to import. Pay $350 + tax for an “admissibility letter” BEFORE you are allowed to cross the border with it!
2. Do same as above to get your car across the border
3. Got to a BMW dealership and pay $500 for them to inspect your car and verify that is “safe” and that there are NO recalls outstanding
4. Wait 25-40 business days for BMW Canada to prepare a letter that states there are no recalls outstanding on you car (This information is freely available on the web, and it is accurate as it is maintained by the manufacturers themselves, go figure?)
5. As of November 26, 2007, BMW Canada has asked that certain cars instrument clusters be changed as they don’t comply with the Daytime Running Light standard. (Now for the life of me I cannot figure out how your instrument cluster affects you Daytime Running Lights) Strangely though, until November 26, 2007 the clusters did comply…

These fees which add $850 – $3,000 to the costs of importing a car are designed to discourage Canadians from exercising the freedom of choice as guaranteed by section 1.1 of the Competition Act.

If this is definitely Transport Canada’s stance that vehicles with a different instrument cluster (I don’t know how they are different other than the fact that Mp/h and Km/h are reversed.) are unsafe to be driven on Canadian roads, then why is it that we allow millions of these “unsafe” cars cross the border into Canada with an American driving it? The government must enforce fair standards or require that ALL American vehicles comply with these standards while operating on Canadian roadways. Are you prepared to close the borders to US vehicles to ensure that this happens? OR is this part on the Conservative party’s policies to change the rule mid-way without advising anyone? Is this your Ministry’s version of Mr. Flaherty’s Halloween trick of 2006?

I have already filed a formal complaint with the Competition bureau of Canada and the US federal Trade Commission. I along with many Canadian consumers was harassed, pressured and belittled by BMW in my efforts to arbitrage the current currency advantage by purchasing a car in the US. Their actions directly contravene section 1.1 of the Competition act which states that “the purpose of this Act is to maintain and encourage competition in Canada in order to promote the efficiency and adaptability of the Canadian economy, in order to expand opportunities for Canadian participation in world markets while at the same time recognizing the role of foreign competition in Canada.” Their actions also directly contravene Title 15 > Chapter 2 > Sub-chapter II > § 62 Promotion of Export Trade of the US Federal Trade Commission which clearly states that the actions which restrain trade are unlawful.

These charges are a direct contravention of part IV, section 45 of the Canadian Competition act which clearly states that “(1) Every one who conspires, combines, agrees or arranges with another person: (a) to limit unduly the facilities for transporting, producing, manufacturing, supplying, storing or dealing in any product, (b) to prevent, limit or lessen, unduly, the manufacture or production of a product or to enhance unreasonably the price thereof, (c) to prevent or lessen, unduly, competition in the production, manufacture, purchase, barter, sale, storage, rental, transportation or supply of a product, or in the price of insurance on persons or property, or (d) to otherwise restrain or injure competition unduly, is guilty of an indictable offense and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years or to a fine not exceeding ten million dollars or to both.”

BMW Canada is clearly acting in a collusive manner as services that were once free only months ago are now levied with excessive fees to stem the ability of the consumer to exercise their freedoms and guaranteed under the Canadian Competition Act and the US Federal Trade Commission.

I call upon the Transport Canada to ACT IMMEDIATELY as this is affecting thousands of Canadian consumers. Manufacturers do NOT have the right to charge us for a safety recall letter as it is their responsibility to ensure that our cars are safe and free of defects. I would like to remind you that this letter was free until last week. Per a recent study by Scotia Bank, Imports of vehicles bought by Canadians in the United States hit a record of almost 25,000 ion October 2007, are on pace to reach another 22,000 to 23,000 in November and will likely hit an annual record when the results for all of 2007 are tallied.

Thousands of Canadians are watching their freedoms being dictated by faceless corporations. If the government can’t fight and uphold our rights, then who will?

Regards,

A proud tax paying Canadian

[EL820]

I understand that a large Western New York Subaru dealer has been sitting on the sidelines quietly reading these posts and enjoying the extra traffic in their showroom. (Okay, they called me to say they're also reading this post daily).

Is it Northtown Subaru? :D


With the year-end fast approaching, expect to see REBATES, Internet incentives ($75-$100) plus and additional incentives of at least $1000 in holdbacks coming to the table.


I have been holding out for this. I'm eager to find out what Subaru's rebate will be for December. Too bad what ever benefit we gain from extra incentive will be washed from the decline in the C$. Regardless, I'm pretty sure I'll pull the trigger next month.

Thanks you Monsieurmaggot for this informative thread.

[underpants]

Go to Globe and Mail and see the comments for this story. So far over 40 people have posted, none of them supporting this "journalist's" stance.

Post your feelings:

http://www.globeauto.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071129.wh-BorderDuty-1129/CommentStory/specialGlobeAuto/home

Here's my comment:

Toyota Sienna in 2006 back when the Canadian dollar was much lower than it is now (.86 I believe). I saved approx. $6000.00 on a base CE. I now read stories of all the people who are experiencing roadblocks to importing from car companies who: refuse to sell them a car (Toyota, Honda, etc.) , fail to honour warranty on a US vehicle in Canada (Honda, etc.), refusing to issue recall letters that the Registrar of Imported Vehicles require (Honda), charging excessive rates for recall letters (BMW - $500), etc.. Our own Transport Canada brings in a requirement (CMVSS114) that makes a whole bunch of US vehicles inadmissable. What is going on here? I thought TC worked for the Canadian public. Why is our own TC erecting barriers to Canadians legally importing vehicles into Canada? What happened to NAFTA. NAFTA seems to work great for companies (GM, VW, etc.) exporting jobs to Mexico where they pay their workers much less than they would in Canada. When the average Canadian attempts to take advantage of NAFTA some companies and even our own government (Transport Canada) do everything in their power to stop us. As Canadian consumers, I believe it is our duty, not to purchase from Canadian car retailers who charge 1000s more than they should. We should be supporting companies and retailers who charge a reasonable amount for a vehicle that is easily importable into Canada.
I think as Canadians we also need to ask what is going on here and put pressure on our elected officials.
Good luck to everyone importing a US vehicle. Enjoy your savings!! I sure am:-)

I am truly pissed at what is going on here. At least we know who is running the country - it's the car companies:cheesygri

[dsds]

Ford must be in really sad shape. The vehicles are mostly all admissable but does anyone notice or care? Good thing Brazil is buying them.

[Danno2005]

You might be able to twist my arm on the 'Stang GT or the Edge.

[raskal]

Ford must be in really sad shape. The vehicles are mostly all admissable but does anyone notice or care? Good thing Brazil is buying them.

What is Ford's warranty position, or more importantly, will they sell to Canadians?

I'm looking to buy an '08 Stang

[bluemule999]

Email I sent to Jeremy Cato...full of #$$%^^&^.

Mr. Cato,

I can use much stronger language...you are full of it. Journalists are supposed to be objective. Your column "Attention shoppers: beware red tape" is so full of errors and misleading information that it is almost criminal. Just quoting Dennis DesRosiers confirms that you are lazy journalist that simply regurgitates wrong facts. I have to wonder if you are actually being paid by the auto manufacturers to spout their lame excuses for fleecing Canadians out of thousands of dollars.

I speak from personal experience. I just imported a brand new 2008 Subaru Legacy GT Limited. I saved $15000 dollars after all taxes and expenses have been factored in. Other cars I researched and considered buying:

2008 Nissan Altima 3.5 SL - $9000 savings
2008 Volkswagen Jetta GLI - $10000 savings

Many other compact to mid-size cars fall into a savings range of $5000-10000.

The process of importing is straightforward to follow and is definitely not complicated. The auto manufacturers and Transport Canada are making it complicated. Journalists like you are causing additional confusion.

Investigate, do some homework, then report the facts!!!

http://www.carswithoutborders.com/
http://www.carburner.com/index.php?title=Main_Page
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=307601
www.ataleoftwoprices.com


WARNING: The following article contains high levels of BS. Reader discretion is advised.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Attention shoppers: beware red tape
JEREMY CATO

From Thursday's Globe and Mail

November 29, 2007 at 12:00 AM EST

According to the North American Automobile Trade Association (NAATA), a trade group of vehicle importers and exporters, the number of vehicles bought in the Unites States and imported into Canada is on pace to reach 164,000 this year.

[03terminator]

What is Ford's warranty position, or more importantly, will they sell to Canadians?

I'm looking to buy an '08 Stang

Ford warranty valid. Ford allows dealers to sell new to Canadians. No duty. Verify with RIV admissibility regarding immobilizer. The DRL is turned on with an ECU flash.


Admissible
2007 AND 2008 All models built
after September 1st, 2007 and
newer models if equipped with the
Ford Securilock Antitheft
Immobilizer System.

[Danno2005]

Ford US dealers will not be able to pass along any Ford factory incentives as they will have to refund them back to Ford once the car is sold out of country...however there is still alot of room for the dealer to negotiate.

List Stang GT Canada $33,999

List Stang GT Deluxe US $25,840

Hmm.. $8,150 !!!!

[Danno2005]

Interesting comments from Candriver.

http://www.canadiandriver.com/testdrives/08a4_avant.htm

"Speaking of price, the base price of the 2008 A4 Avant 2.0TFSI dropped by more than a thousand dollars since it was first announced in April, 2007. At that time, the base A4 Avant was $43,600, an increase of $1,260 over the 2007 model. As of September 1, 2007, the base price was lowered back down to $42,350 - no doubt as a result of strong consumer pressure to bring Canadian prices closer to lower American prices.
Still, a quick check of the Audi USA web site reveals that the '08 A4 Avant 2.0T starts at U.S.$32,000 - however, the American model doesn't include standard leather seats and a few other features that are standard in the Canadian A4 - still, the price difference is considerable."

No kidding....

[bluemule999]

Thanks to SeeWhy2 and DSDS for helping with photo upload...still unable to get the photo to display on post. So, I have put the link to the photo album! Saves space on the forum.

Here are 2 photos of my new Subie!!! The photos were taken on the dealer lot. Finally got around to getting my Quebec plates tonight. Only step left is getting the RIV stickers. Love this car!

http://picasaweb.google.com/bluemule999

[Danno2005]

Very nice - congrats!

[Kamloops]

Thanks to SeeWhy2 and DSDS for helping with photo upload...still unable to get the photo to display on post. So, I have put the link to the photo album! Saves space on the forum.

Here are 2 photos of my new Subie!!! The photos were taken on the dealer lot. Finally got around to getting my Quebec plates tonight. Only step left is getting the RIV stickers. Love this car!

http://picasaweb.google.com/bluemule999


Do people actually stick the RIV sticker on the car? What on earth for? I sure didn't and I took the sticker they stuck on my windshield for the provincial inspection off as well

[fulrach]

Thanks to SeeWhy2 and DSDS for helping with photo upload...still unable to get the photo to display on post. So, I have put the link to the photo album! Saves space on the forum.

Here are 2 photos of my new Subie!!! The photos were taken on the dealer lot. Finally got around to getting my Quebec plates tonight. Only step left is getting the RIV stickers. Love this car!

http://picasaweb.google.com/bluemule999

Beautiful car! Congrats! Who'd you buy it off of? Xan or Jack?

[accorder]

here is detailed A4 prices comparision http://ataleoftwoprices.com/default.aspx?ModelID=15


Interesting comments from Candriver.
http://www.canadiandriver.com/testdrives/08a4_avant.htm

"Speaking of price, the base price of the 2008 A4 Avant 2.0TFSI dropped by more than a thousand dollars since it was first announced in April, 2007. At that time, the base A4 Avant was $43,600, an increase of $1,260 over the 2007 model. As of September 1, 2007, the base price was lowered back down to $42,350 - no doubt as a result of strong consumer pressure to bring Canadian prices closer to lower American prices.
Still, a quick check of the Audi USA web site reveals that the '08 A4 Avant 2.0T starts at U.S.$32,000 - however, the American model doesn't include standard leather seats and a few other features that are standard in the Canadian A4 - still, the price difference is considerable."

No kidding....

[jcl4]

I just got my Form 2 today, went to ctires for the inspection, got there at 4, but was told I had to come back tomorrow.

I was wondering if any of you had to do any mod on new vehicles other than DRL?

Also What do I do after I get the form 2 done? At the bottom say Fax immediatly to 1888-xxxxxxxxx. So do I have to fax it there before I get my insurance and plates? Or what exactly is the process after getting the stamp from crappy tires?

btw I got a 08 forester xt sports if your wondering

[cobretti]

Thanks to SeeWhy2 and DSDS for helping with photo upload...still unable to get the photo to display on post. So, I have put the link to the photo album! Saves space on the forum.

Here are 2 photos of my new Subie!!! The photos were taken on the dealer lot. Finally got around to getting my Quebec plates tonight. Only step left is getting the RIV stickers. Love this car!

http://picasaweb.google.com/bluemule999

Wow! that car looks stunning, congrats! On another note - I have been reading up with posts I missed for a week and it seems Canadians are now being screwed over on a daily basis in this auto "scam".

We need some aerial advertising pointing to www.carburner.com with an eye catching phrase...??? There has got to be a way to get this out to more people as you can't rely on the media doing it

[ManchSubaruDealer]

I'm sick and tired of reading about people publicly critisizing my methods. I'm not going to name any names, but you know who you are. You're absolutely correct, I have ten posts, now eleven, and each and every one of them promotes myself. How much money have I saved RFD members? I've never claimed to be the only show in town. That's the thing about it, consumers can buy a new Subaru from whomever they want to. They choose to buy from me. Do you know why they buy from me? They purchase from me, because they don't get stuck at the border with bad or disorganized paperwork, because they save thousands, because they've heard great reviews about me. That's why they buy from me. Of course I'm making money off the sales, I don't work for free, nobody does. My pricing is always fair, always way below invoice and there are no surprises when dealing with me. For those of you who don't want me on this post anymore, why don't you ask how the 35 RFD members who love me feel about me being on this post? If this post is so bad, then stop reading it! It's that simple, and do yourself a favor. If you're going to mention your 5th grade kid in a post, have him proof read it for errors so you don't look like a fool. For those of you serious about buying a Subaru please contact me so I can help you save thousands...

[st7860]

I'm sick and tired of reading about people publicly critisizing my methods. I'm not going to name any names, but you know who you are. You're absolutely correct, I have ten posts, now eleven, and each and every one of them promotes myself. How much money have I saved RFD members? I've never claimed to be the only show in town. That's the thing about it, consumers can buy a new Subaru from whomever they want to. They choose to buy from me. Do you know why they buy from me? They purchase from me, because they don't get stuck at the border with bad or disorganized paperwork, because they save thousands, because they've heard great reviews about me. That's why they buy from me. Of course I'm making money off the sales, I don't work for free, nobody does. My pricing is always fair, always way below invoice and there are no surprises when dealing with me. For those of you who don't want me on this post anymore, why don't you ask how the 35 RFD members who love me feel about me being on this post? If this post is so bad, then stop reading it! It's that simple, and do yourself a favor. If you're going to mention your 5th grade kid in a post, have him proof read it for errors so you don't look like a fool. For those of you serious about buying a Subaru please contact me so I can help you save thousands...

I don't see any difference between you and a ROGERS cell phone dealer coming into the Rogers Retentions thread and saying"I can save you tons of money blah blah blah blah".

[dsds]

I'm sure all of you Subaru followers will agree with me.

I say Xan is a great guy and should be congratulated for being part of the solution and not the problem.

Xan, I've never met you but keep up the good work, enjoy the sales, and I hope you get more. If I was in your area, I'd buy from you.

Cheers!

[dsds]

I don't see any difference between you and a ROGERS cell phone dealer coming into the Rogers Retentions thread and saying"I can save you tons of money blah blah blah blah".

I respect what you're saying but in this case I think he has saved lots of people lots of money. I'm sure we'll hear more when all of those Subaru drivers in the east wake up and smell their money.

[accorder]

I'm sure all of you Subaru followers will agree with me.

I say Xan is a great guy and should be congratulated for being part of the solution and not the problem.

Xan, I've never met you but keep up the good work, enjoy the sales, and I hope you get more. If I was in your area, I'd buy from you.

Cheers!

agreed. Xan is part of the solution. We need more Xan-like U.S dealers here.

[Sentinels]

Hi Guys,

Because of the 72 hour rule and the fact that I won't be able to get the ownership until I pickup the vehicle, was wondering if I would be able to pickup the vehicle fax the ownership to US customs and cross the border with the vehicle back into Canada without doing the export first. After the 72 hour mark, go back with the car and do the export/import process?

Reason for this is obviously I am hoping to do this myself without having to involve someone else with a 2nd car to drive me back to pickup the vehicle. Thx

[Xinc]

This thread is/was all about helping fellow Canadians getting great deals by importing vehicles. Some people here should at least try to contribute to the effort, if not then please stop being @$$holes.

Sure Xan came here to promote himself, to help his business a little, so what? Who isn't? Now I only came to this site upon the discovery of this thread, hence haven't been here for long, but for whatever short amount of time I've spent on this thread, two things I've learned: 1. Subaru makes great cars for the money. Though a bit on the expensive side, but you get your money's worth (too bad Toyota/Honda likes to say "F*CK Canadians, eh?"); 2. Manchester Subaru doesn't take this opportunity to rip-off Canadians like most dealers do, and actually makes an effort to respect our business by providing us with fair prices. Followed by Van Bortel, more expensive, but still cheaper/more trust worthy than the next closest dealer to Toronto. If the 1000KM wasn't so intimidating, I'd definitely go with Manchester.

To all the nay-sayers, if you have a better dealer in mind (for whatever brand), please, please, PLEASE SHARE with us! If not, go get yourself a snack, a cup of tea, and calm down! Unless you too, are importing a vehicle, I don't see any reason why you should waste valuable time reading/commenting on this.

[Snocow]

Picking up a 2008 Camry SE in Virginia on Saturday am...crossing at Queenston / Lewiston on Monday am. Hope to see some of you there!

[champion_qh]

A silly question: do you always have to ship the car to your residence in Canada or you can come to pick up the car in US and drive across the border and do the paper work?

I'm wondering if you don't register till in Canada and don't have the licence plate, how can you drive on the road?


bear with me pls......

[heavychemist]

I'm sick and tired of reading about people publicly critisizing my methods. I'm not going to name any names, but you know who you are. You're absolutely correct, I have ten posts, now eleven, and each and every one of them promotes myself. How much money have I saved RFD members? I've never claimed to be the only show in town. That's the thing about it, consumers can buy a new Subaru from whomever they want to. They choose to buy from me. Do you know why they buy from me? They purchase from me, because they don't get stuck at the border with bad or disorganized paperwork, because they save thousands, because they've heard great reviews about me. That's why they buy from me. Of course I'm making money off the sales, I don't work for free, nobody does. My pricing is always fair, always way below invoice and there are no surprises when dealing with me. For those of you who don't want me on this post anymore, why don't you ask how the 35 RFD members who love me feel about me being on this post? If this post is so bad, then stop reading it! It's that simple, and do yourself a favor. If you're going to mention your 5th grade kid in a post, have him proof read it for errors so you don't look like a fool. For those of you serious about buying a Subaru please contact me so I can help you save thousands...
Xan
Just ignore those guys.

I contacted a half a dozen different Subaru dealers in the Northern States and Xan gave me the bext price. In the end I bought a Tribeca from Xan at Manchester Subaru and saved over $15,000 versus what I would pay in Canada. I agree, Xan is not part of the problem, he's part of the solution.

Mike

[SeeWhy2]

A silly question: do you always have to ship the car to your residence in Canada or you can come to pick up the car in US and drive across the border and do the paper work?
That is what I did - picked it up and drove it back and paperwork at border.

I'm wondering if you don't register till in Canada and don't have the licence plate, how can you drive on the road? bear with me pls......

Karl provided me with NYS tempory licence good until Dec 19th. I got my form 2 yesterday via e-mail so hope to get to CT and Lic. Bureau today.

[joejack]

Picking up a 2008 Camry SE in Virginia on Saturday am...crossing at Queenston / Lewiston on Monday am. Hope to see some of you there!

Try and be at the US export office early Monday morning. I was there at 6:45 am last Monday morning and I was the 3rd guy in line. By the time the office opened at 8:00 am, the line was good 15-20 deep. Also, when you get there, don't sit in your car like me thinking there is no one around. Get out, go into the builiding and stand outside the export office door. First in first out.

Good Luck!

[mangoman]

I have no plans to buy a Subie (not fuel efficient enough for me) but I have no problems with Xan or Karl posting in this thread - this is afterall a "HOT DEALS" thread and they have posted what are indeed HOT deals (if savings of $15000 is not a hot deal then get your arse out of this thread and onto some other site) unlike the lame Nissan Canada rebate thread. They have actually given options to potential RFD buyers and I'm sure have even convinced several who were on the fence!

:razz:

[Danno2005]

Xan
Just ignore those guys.

I contacted a half a dozen different Subaru dealers in the Northern States and Xan gave me the bext price. In the end I bought a Tribeca from Xan at Manchester Subaru and saved over $15,000 versus what I would pay in Canada. I agree, Xan is not part of the problem, he's part of the solution.

Mike

Xan - Certain folks try to "ruin a good thing". No use trying to understand - it is just human nature I guess.

Keep up the good fight and believe that the vast majority of folks here are rooting for you.

Danno

:)

[dotcalamitie]

I went to the US Export office on Wednesday this week at 1:30 at Queenston. The process took about 60 seconds, there were three other guys there, I didn't have to wait more than a minute.

[dotcalamitie]

Cost me $400 for my 2008. They change the F to C on the digital thermometers, trip computer, change the odometer and speedometer. Now you'd never know the difference.

[GunnerX]

Xan - Certain folks try to "ruin a good thing". No use trying to understand - it is just human nature I guess.

Keep up the good fight and believe that the vast majority of folks here are rooting for you.

Danno

:)

It won't be RFD if there weren't any people criticizing anything and everything. Too bad this is the case but e-thugs rule yo!

Xan, just ignore those guys, they think they know everything but in the end, they're just little snot nosed kids typing in their dark bedroom wearing nothing but the same underwear for a month find threads on RFD where they can annoy people. :D RFD should really take a stand on such behaviour.

[scouzi]

Cost me $400 for my 2008. They change the F to C on the digital thermometers, trip computer, change the odometer and speedometer. Now you'd never know the difference.

Did you get it done in Canada or $US?

[leafsrule06]

Cost me $400 for my 2008. They change the F to C on the digital thermometers, trip computer, change the odometer and speedometer. Now you'd never know the difference.

Also can you post the name of the company you used. I may want to get my soon to be picked up Tribeca done as well. So at the end of the day is everything coverted? Including fuel consumption stats etc? Thanks

[jasz]

Hi Guys,

I am one of those who has been reading this thread from last month and half almost on hourly basis. Finally, I have decided to take the plunge and join the fellow RFD'ers to made the big purchase in USA.

I have made a deal for Acura MDX in Florida. I was hoping to drive it back to Canada (GTA) but dealer has put some road blocks in my way. He is saying if I plan to drive the vehicle of the lot then I have to pay local taxes (6%). I must get it shipped out of the country to avoid those charges.

Has any one come across this? If I do get it shipped, how would I clear the customs? OR I could take the delivery of the vehicle at the border than drive it to Canada but then there is no temporary registration tag on it. I am confused.. Anyone with the same experience? Please guide ...

thanks in advance!

[Danno2005]

Your Florida dealer is correct - possession needs to be out of state to avoid State taxes.

Section 8, page 23.

http://www.1040.com/New1040/pdfs/2006/State/FL/GT400400.PDF

[michelb]

Hi Guys,

I am one of those who has been reading this thread from last month and half almost on hourly basis. Finally, I have decided to take the plunge and join the fellow RFD'ers to made the big purchase in USA.

I have made a deal for Acura MDX in Florida. I was hoping to drive it back to Canada (GTA) but dealer has put some road blocks in my way. He is saying if I plan to drive the vehicle of the lot then I have to pay local taxes (6%). I must get it shipped out of the country to avoid those charges.

Has any one come across this? If I do get it shipped, how would I clear the customs? OR I could take the delivery of the vehicle at the border than drive it to Canada but then there is no temporary registration tag on it. I am confused.. Anyone with the same experience? Please guide ...

thanks in advance!

There's nothing you can do about not paying the tax if you buy from Florida and want to get a temp permit - they are one of a few states that charge tax to all buyers (even if it's for export - although the good thing is that if you do get it shipped, you don't pay the tax (other states like Massachussetts (I think) always charge the tax)).

If you have it shipped, you probably need to be at the border when it comes in to do the export from the US and import into Canada or hire one of the companies that do this. If you don't want to pay the FL taxes, there's no way to get a temp permit on it until you get it to Canada - once it's in Canada, you might be able to get a temp permit here (not sure about that).

[dotcalamitie]

Niagara Speedometer. $400 for complete Tribeca conversion.

495 Eastchester Avenue East
St. Catharines, ON
L2M 6S2
Voice: (905) 704-0645
Fax: (905) 704-1746

Dealers can't do this because it involves tampering with the odometer. I'm not going to take a picture of it, everything looks the same except the instruments are all factory metric now instead of Imperial. if you want to see what it looks like, go to a Subaru dealer and look inside their Tribeca...there is no difference. i could probably sell this car now and a buyer wouldn't have a clue it was from the US.

[fugazi11]

Hi Guys,

I am one of those who has been reading this thread from last month and half almost on hourly basis. Finally, I have decided to take the plunge and join the fellow RFD'ers to made the big purchase in USA.

I have made a deal for Acura MDX in Florida. I was hoping to drive it back to Canada (GTA) but dealer has put some road blocks in my way. He is saying if I plan to drive the vehicle of the lot then I have to pay local taxes (6%). I must get it shipped out of the country to avoid those charges.

Has any one come across this? If I do get it shipped, how would I clear the customs? OR I could take the delivery of the vehicle at the border than drive it to Canada but then there is no temporary registration tag on it. I am confused.. Anyone with the same experience? Please guide ...

thanks in advance!


When I have shipped cars to Florida in the past it is around $700-$800. It might even be cheaper to ship it back from Florida now because a lot of the trucks will be empty dropping off the snowbirds cars.

[fugazi11]

Niagara Speedometer. $400 for complete Tribeca conversion.

495 Eastchester Avenue East
St. Catharines, ON
L2M 6S2
Voice: (905) 704-0645
Fax: (905) 704-1746

Dealers can't do this because it involves tampering with the odometer. I'm not going to take a picture of it, everything looks the same except the instruments are all factory metric now instead of Imperial. if you want to see what it looks like, go to a Subaru dealer and look inside their Tribeca...there is no difference. i could probably sell this car now and a buyer wouldn't have a clue it was from the US.

I thought you mentioned previously that you were going to sell your Tribeca in the near future. From what you have seen/read, can you get more for it with the conversion then without?

[jmlleung]

Niagara Speedometer. $400 for complete Tribeca conversion.

495 Eastchester Avenue East
St. Catharines, ON
L2M 6S2
Voice: (905) 704-0645
Fax: (905) 704-1746

Dealers can't do this because it involves tampering with the odometer. I'm not going to take a picture of it, everything looks the same except the instruments are all factory metric now instead of Imperial. if you want to see what it looks like, go to a Subaru dealer and look inside their Tribeca...there is no difference. i could probably sell this car now and a buyer wouldn't have a clue it was from the US.

Will there be any risk in the warranty by doing the conversion using a 3rd party? Thanks.

[rob3blk]

Niagara Speedometer. $400 for complete Tribeca conversion.

495 Eastchester Avenue East
St. Catharines, ON
L2M 6S2
Voice: (905) 704-0645
Fax: (905) 704-1746

Dealers can't do this because it involves tampering with the odometer. I'm not going to take a picture of it, everything looks the same except the instruments are all factory metric now instead of Imperial. if you want to see what it looks like, go to a Subaru dealer and look inside their Tribeca...there is no difference. i could probably sell this car now and a buyer wouldn't have a clue it was from the US.

thank you

[jasz]

There's nothing you can do about not paying the tax if you buy from Florida and want to get a temp permit - they are one of a few states that charge tax to all buyers (even if it's for export - although the good thing is that if you do get it shipped, you don't pay the tax (other states like Massachussetts (I think) always charge the tax)).

If you have it shipped, you probably need to be at the border when it comes in to do the export from the US and import into Canada or hire one of the companies that do this. If you don't want to pay the FL taxes, there's no way to get a temp permit on it until you get it to Canada - once it's in Canada, you might be able to get a temp permit here (not sure about that).

Thanks michelb.. I was thinking i could get the temp permit from state of NY.
I guess I have to do what you suggested. Be at the border when they bring the car to the border.
Anyone else knows if I can get the temp permit from Ontario so I can drive the vehicle from border to home? OR i would just have to get it shipped to home and then do the paper work ?

Thanks again!

[jasz]

Your Florida dealer is correct - possession needs to be out of state to avoid State taxes.

Section 8, page 23.

http://www.1040.com/New1040/pdfs/2006/State/FL/GT400400.PDF

Thank you for confirming that.. It was very helpful.

[danipet]

Another one, I know I said in the Letter I would file under the Access to Information Act, but I just did. It cost $5 to start the process. I want to see the documents that TC relied upon to change their list. They better be bulletproof as to why one can retroactively change the list...I doubt it! I think that this is very good ammo. They really f**ked up on that one.

I couldn't help myself and I e-mailed Mr Cannon by quoting this letter! Although I am not affected as of yet by all these changes, I can say I am disgusted at the tactics of BMW Canada in trying to be a cash grab. Let's keep the pressure up.

[giaotze]

Will there be any risk in the warranty by doing the conversion using a 3rd party? Thanks.

I am wondering about this too.
Also, how long does it take to change speedo?
Thanks :D

[jasz]

When I have shipped cars to Florida in the past it is around $700-$800. It might even be cheaper to ship it back from Florida now because a lot of the trucks will be empty dropping off the snowbirds cars.

Just sent you a PM. Can you send me name of the compnies you used? It would be helpful greatly...

Thanks!

[martin1]

i just learned that hyundai Canada is acting like riv...

since 22 now they changed theirs policy and the warranty isn't anymore honored.......

i bought my car before that date.....and they saying that isn't valid anymore, they just decided to change from white o black in one day....
and don't even honor theirs previous agreement


Did you get that from a dealer or Hyundai Canada?

I phoned Hyundai Canada, they asked me to call Hyundai US. Hyundai US told me that the warranty is still valid. BUT, some dealers won't cover the warranty service, means you have to pay and get reimbursed from Hyundai US. And the lady said, you'd better contact Hyundai US before get the repairs done.

[joejack]

Thanks michelb.. I was thinking i could get the temp permit from state of NY.
I guess I have to do what you suggested. Be at the border when they bring the car to the border.
Anyone else knows if I can get the temp permit from Ontario so I can drive the vehicle from border to home? OR i would just have to get it shipped to home and then do the paper work ?

Thanks again!

Once you find yourself a trucking company which will truck the car from dealer to Canada, read their fine prints. They will all tell you the same thing along the lines of 'no guarantee on exact delivery time. Just a ball park and even at that they could change it at last minute. Best bet would be the following:

Have them transport the car to customs depot in Mississuga (I am assuming your from toronto) or where ever you live.

or

Hire a customs broker, cost about 100 to 250 (try http://www.peninsulacustoms.com/About.html) and they will clear the car and have it delivered to your home.

Again I would caution you on the trucking company...they will tell you they are fully insured, but if you read the fine print they say 'they are fully insured except for' and they describe the car i.e. body of the car, inside of the car, windshields etc. it's a joke.

Here is a web site which might help you find a better trucking company. http://www.transportreviews.com/. After doing my diligence, I decided that I would rather drive then have it truck. As for state tax in Florida, I would find another dealer in another state. For example, Virgina has 3.1 % state tax and if you can find a dealer (I know I did for Honda) they wont even charge the state tax as long as you don't register the car in their state.

Hope this helps.

[fulrach]

Will there be any risk in the warranty by doing the conversion using a 3rd party? Thanks.

I would say "yes" as when I went to the dealership here to inquire about doing an aftermarket remote start / alarm, they said that any tampering with the electrical would void the warranty on the electrical.

dotcalamitie, what'd they tell you? If i remember correctly you got yours done through multiline right?

Thanks!

[ziploc]

Did you get that from a dealer or Hyundai Canada?

I phoned Hyundai Canada, they asked me to call Hyundai US. Hyundai US told me that the warranty is still valid. BUT, some dealers won't cover the warranty service, means you have to pay and get reimbursed from Hyundai US. And the lady said, you'd better contact Hyundai US before get the repairs done.

From Hyundai Canada.....and Hyundai USA who told me that Hyundai Canada break their agreement about their warranty work....

Hyundai USA will check case by case...and in most times the customer will have to pay and ask for reimbursement from them....H USA

And the worst is as asked the same question before buying my car and Hyundai Canada told me that canadian warranty will apply without free road assistance...and now after i bought my car they told me that policy has changed the 22nd nov and it's no more valid......even for cars bought before the policy change....

[leafsrule06]

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeBee
From Huskylord:National car rental (code 5766241) ~$50 + 20 cents per km. (~$140). Thanks Huskylord.

This is a code for some US universities it looks like according to this link.....

http://www.uwsa.edu/fadmin/fppp/nat.htm

[jrvic]

Can I import my US car at this Mississauga custom depot? I am just too lazy to drive back to Niagara Falls.

Once you find yourself a trucking company which will truck the car from dealer to Canada, read their fine prints. They will all tell you the same thing along the lines of 'no guarantee on exact delivery time. Just a ball park and even at that they could change it at last minute. Best bet would be the following:

Have them transport the car to customs depot in Mississuga (I am assuming your from toronto) or where ever you live.

or

Hire a customs broker, cost about 100 to 250 (try http://www.peninsulacustoms.com/About.html) and they will clear the car and have it delivered to your home.

Again I would caution you on the trucking company...they will tell you they are fully insured, but if you read the fine print they say 'they are fully insured except for' and they describe the car i.e. body of the car, inside of the car, windshields etc. it's a joke.

Here is a web site which might help you find a better trucking company. http://www.transportreviews.com/. After doing my diligence, I decided that I would rather drive then have it truck. As for state tax in Florida, I would find another dealer in another state. For example, Virgina has 3.1 % state tax and if you can find a dealer (I know I did for Honda) they wont even charge the state tax as long as you don't register the car in their state.

Hope this helps.

[R_Lefebvre]

I hate to ask this question as I'm sure it's covered a million times, but with 600 pages... and I tried searching to no avail...

Which crossings would allow me to bring the car over on the weekend. I guess the most important is the US customs side.

I live near Belleville Ontario and am looking at cars in the Detroit area. So, I could take either crossing in Detroit, maybe the Blue Water bridge in Sarnia if I had to. Or I could cross at Niagara Falls, or maybe even near Kingston.

Any of the crossings in this area open for car import/export on weekends?

[J233]

There's nothing you can do about not paying the tax if you buy from Florida and want to get a temp permit - they are one of a few states that charge tax to all buyers (even if it's for export - although the good thing is that if you do get it shipped, you don't pay the tax (other states like Massachussetts (I think) always charge the tax)).

If you have it shipped, you probably need to be at the border when it comes in to do the export from the US and import into Canada or hire one of the companies that do this. If you don't want to pay the FL taxes, there's no way to get a temp permit on it until you get it to Canada - once it's in Canada, you might be able to get a temp permit here (not sure about that).

There is a way to work around this...

1. The out of state requirment doesn not mean out of country. Call you dealer and ask them to clarify. What I mean is that to comply with FL law the car has to be transported outside of FL, which means that you can drive away from the Georgia/FL border.

2. In order to do that you will need FL plates for teh reminder of the trip. Ask the dealer to confirm the scenario with the local DMV - should be no problem.

3. You will need to sign a notarized tax exemption form anyway.

If your dealer is creative you can come up with the plan.....

If the above mentioned tricks will not work for your dealer and you don't want the hassle, transportation is your only way. In my search I found these folks to have to best rates last year - A-A Auto Transport (888) 744-7227. Their fee includes clearing the US Customs for you and you pick up your vehicle in Mississauga (in land port) where you do your Form 1, GST, etc

[joejack]

Can I import my US car at this Mississauga custom depot? I am just too lazy to drive back to Niagara Falls.

If you hire a transportation company and don't have a customs broker, they will bring the car to Mississauga customs depot. You pay your GST and do the paper work.

[joejack]

If the above mentioned tricks will not work for your dealer and you don't want the hassle, transportation is your only way. In my search I found these folks to have to best rates last year - A-A Auto Transport (888) 744-7227. Their fee includes clearing the US Customs for you and you pick up your vehicle in Mississauga (in land port) where you do your Form 1, GST, etc

Yes, I too had picked A-A Auto Transport of San Diego for my transport. However, after reading their reviews, especially Canadian reviews at http://www.transportreviews.com and http://www.complaints.com/ I decided against the shipping altogether.

They were the cheapest. To transport my Odyssey from Dallas to Toronto it was $1270 compare to other quotes of 1600, 2250, 2600. Which ever company you pick, please make sure to read their reviews before signing the dotted line, also read the fine print.

[jrvic]

My US plated car is already legally in Toronto. I guess I would just drive to the depot and do the paper work plus paying the GST (I am waiting to Jan 08 to save another 1%). I wonder if the custom agent there will do it in my case?
If you hire a transportation company and don't have a customs broker, they will bring the car to Mississauga customs depot. You pay your GST and do the paper work.

[kingrukus]

Your Florida dealer is correct - possession needs to be out of state to avoid State taxes.

Section 8, page 23.

http://www.1040.com/New1040/pdfs/2006/State/FL/GT400400.PDF

Does anyone know if I need to pay state tax in Florida when purchasing a private sale vehicle there? The lady at the FL DMV seemed to think that I had to when trying to get in-transit temp tags, however her tone seemed questionable...

Thanks

[karl_at_vanbortel]

Niagara Speedometer. $400 for complete Tribeca conversion.

495 Eastchester Avenue East
St. Catharines, ON
L2M 6S2
Voice: (905) 704-0645
Fax: (905) 704-1746

Dealers can't do this because it involves tampering with the odometer. I'm not going to take a picture of it, everything looks the same except the instruments are all factory metric now instead of Imperial. if you want to see what it looks like, go to a Subaru dealer and look inside their Tribeca...there is no difference. i could probably sell this car now and a buyer wouldn't have a clue it was from the US.

Hey everyone. Sorry for my absence. I have been sending as many Subies north as possible over the last few months. A very BIG thank you to everyone that has come so far to do business with us.

In regards to the above posting. Just my two cents here but be VERY careful making changes like this. One thing that I am sure has been mentioned in the previous 6 billion pages is that you can come back and trade, or out right sell, your car to us or any other US dealer down the road. It's a US car and we'd be happy to have it back. If you make changes to the gauge cluster this will render your car True Mileage Unknown, or TMU. A TMU car is worth a fraction of it's actual value.

I don't know the legalities of such changes but here in NY if you knowingly signed an odometer statement saying the the mileage displayed was true and accurate, when in fact it wasn't, HUGE problems. Just keep that in mind.

I hope everyone has an awesome holiday and that this continues as long as possible. Whether you buy your Subaru from me or not don't hesitate to E-MAIL (not PM) me with questions.

Karl

[warpdryv]

(I am waiting to Jan 08 to save another 1%).

keep in mind your gst is now 10% higher than it would have been when the dollar was 1.10. if it drops much further it'll eat up any savings from waiting for the gst cut.

[elty]

So which car can you safely buy now? (as in: US dealer will sell to Canadian, car is admissible, warranty is covered)

[03terminator]

Hey everyone. Sorry for my absence. I have been sending as many Subies north as possible over the last few months. A very BIG thank you to everyone that has come so far to do business with us.

In regards to the above posting. Just my two cents here but be VERY careful making changes like this. One thing that I am sure has been mentioned in the previous 6 billion pages is that you can come back and trade, or out right sell, your car to us or any other US dealer down the road. It's a US car and we'd be happy to have it back. If you make changes to the gauge cluster this will render your car True Mileage Unknown, or TMU. A TMU car is worth a fraction of it's actual value.

I don't know the legalities of such changes but here in NY if you knowingly signed an odometer statement saying the the mileage displayed was true and accurate, when in fact it wasn't, HUGE problems. Just keep that in mind.

I hope everyone has an awesome holiday and that this continues as long as possible. Whether you buy your Subaru from me or not don't hesitate to E-MAIL (not PM) me with questions.

Karl

Are you serious about taking back US vehicles now registered in Canada. Can you just take it back in trade, no import (to US issues).

[ac328]

So which car can you safely buy now? (as in: US dealer will sell to Canadian, car is admissible, warranty is covered)

Open sales to Canadians and full warranty, no questions asked?

- Infiniti
- Subaru
- Ford (not 100% sure)

My own shopping list is now down to Infiniti and Subaru. Probably a G35, I am very worried Infiniti will shut sales down somehow soon....but I want that GST cut!!

[shopper-X]

Open sales to Canadians and full warranty, no questions asked?

- Infiniti
- Subaru
- Ford (not 100% sure)

My own shopping list is now down to Infiniti and Subaru. Probably a G35, I am very worried Infiniti will shut sales down somehow soon....but I want that GST cut!!

The way I see it (AKA my two cents)...
BMW is now making sure we pay over $500 for the Recall Clearance letter and only BMW Canada can modify to the vehicle. Hyundai has closed the border on new sales and some more manufactures may follow. So do yourself a favour and buy whatever you want sooner then later. If you're waiting on a 1% tax cut that will amount to $400 on a $40,000 purchase and miss the boat on saving $5K-25k then wait, otherwise get in now before the border is closed.

[jrvic]

keep in mind your gst is now 10% higher than it would have been when the dollar was 1.10. if it drops much further it'll eat up any savings from waiting for the gst cut.

Yes I know, but I was hoping the dollar will go to 1.20 by Jan 08, darn it! oh well, just have to declare my import at a lower price then i.e. more depreciation by then.:D

[Ventrick]

Candian dollar is going nowhere but down, it is already dropping in anticipation of the Bank of Canada cutting the interest rates next week. When that happens the dollar will drop even more.

[DSTU]

I hate to ask this question as I'm sure it's covered a million times, but with 600 pages... and I tried searching to no avail...

Which crossings would allow me to bring the car over on the weekend. I guess the most important is the US customs side.

I live near Belleville Ontario and am looking at cars in the Detroit area. So, I could take either crossing in Detroit, maybe the Blue Water bridge in Sarnia if I had to. Or I could cross at Niagara Falls, or maybe even near Kingston.

Any of the crossings in this area open for car import/export on weekends?

NO.

But don't take my word for it - have you gone to the site that's been mentioned a hundred times here already - all the info is there about border crossings.

[R_Lefebvre]

RIV.ca?

That's the only one that jumps to mind. If it's another one... there are 670+ pages, and lots of website mentioned many times. You could have listed the website in less time that it took to write that retort.

[Tender]

RIV.ca?

That's the only one that jumps to mind. If it's another one... there are 670+ pages, and lots of website mentioned many times. You could have listed the website in less time that it took to write that retort.

www.carburner.com

[SeeWhy2]

Hi all,
Well, my Subaru is now plated and the process is entirely complete! Here is some info for those that are interested:

1) Came across the border on Monday - the entire process took 1/2 hour max - it will depend on the lineup.

2) Called RIV on Wednesday and got through right away. I got an 800 fax number and faxed the recall letter that evening.

3) Got an e-mail from RIV on Thursday with form 2 attached.

4) Went to Canadian Tire this morning with form 2 - it took about 5 minutes for the guy to check out the car and then sign the papers. I thought that he would give me form 2 to take to MTO but he just signed form 1 and sent me on my way :cheesygri

5) Headed directly to MTO with forms, insurance, title, driver's license and bank card in tow (actually I took everything that I had just to be sure).

6) Got in line at MTO - waited about 1 minute - paid the PST, provided all the info & got new plates, sticker and ownership. That took all of about 5 minutes and then came home. Form 1 was all they required.

7) Got home put the plates on and took the temp. plate (provided free by Van Bortels) off and that took another 3 minutes.

Now for the extra good part - Total savings on the car - to a comparable Canadian model - is $16,442.97 including plates, sticker, PST and GST.

In addition (drum roll please) when I exchanged to U.S. dollars (BMO - when it was $1.07) I saved another $1300.00 and change. Total savings of............... $17,800.00 approximately. Yowsers!

A big thanks to this group, the original poster (MM) and of course Karl at Van Bortels - They/he looks after everything to make sure the process is as painless as possible (that is why we need their imput and advice! So let's be nice to them. Sure they are making money but that is what they do for a living).

The entire process is a little intimidating at first but with all the help here and from Karl it really is quite painless. If I happen to do it again it will be very smooth and quick.

Today, with some of the savings, I had 2 new front bay windows put into our home ($3500) just to do my part to help the Canadian economy :cheesygri . I would not have been able to afford this without the car savings. I also plan on making a donation to the cause as soon as I can read through all the posts to decide how and where. There is no doubt that we are getting screwed and it has to stop!

That's all for now,

[p110232]

Hi all,
Well, my Subaru is now plated and the process is entirely complete! Here is some info for those that are interested:



Congratulations Carlos!

[kingrukus]

Does anyone know if I need to pay state tax in Florida when purchasing a private sale vehicle there? The lady at the FL DMV seemed to think that I had to when trying to get in-transit temp tags, however her tone seemed questionable...

Thanks

Just spoke with Florida DMV again. Even if the vehicle is a private used sale, I still have to pay state tax when getting the temp driving tags. This SUCKS!!

What if I were to have the vehicle sent to a neighboring state where this rule wasn't put into effect...could I theoretically get temp tags from a neighboring state and not pay the tax???

Thanks!!

[Kamloops]

Only way to avoid this usually is to either ship the vehicle directly from the dealership, or to have a dealers license showing you are exempt from paying sales tax

Just ship it to a state that is close with no tax

Non-Florida residents are responsible for state sales taxes:

* With out of state purchases there are no other registration or licensing fees - just the sales tax issue. Here's how it works...
o If you have the car shipped to you, therefore not driving the car on the state roads of Florida, we do not legally have to charge state sales tax or any other fees beyond the price of the car itself. Upon delivery, you will pay appropriate sales taxes to your state when you register the car.

o If you purchase a car in the state of Florida and intend on driving it home or in any way driving it on the state roads of Florida we must by law charge Florida State sales tax at 6%.


However, some states reciprocate - which means that by paying tax in Florida you are exempt from paying taxes again in your state. If your state reciprocates and you intend on driving your Corvette home, we must charge your states sales tax rate, whatever that may be, and you will be exempt from paying any tax whatsoever when you go to register the car in your state (because you've already paid it).

For example, if a customer from Texas (a state that reciprocates) intends on driving his/her Corvette home we then charge the Texas state sales tax rate of 6.25%. Off he/she goes on a merry trip and then is exempt from paying any tax whatsoever when registering the car upon arrival in Texas. As of January 2000, only 16 states do not reciprocate but these laws may change with each annual review.

IMPORTANT: Laws vary from state to state and may change without notice. Other possible registration/tag fees may apply according to each individual states' policies. We recommend that the customer contact his or her local Department of Motor Vehicles for their specific policy on reciprocation.

[ac328]

The way I see it (AKA my two cents)...
BMW is now making sure we pay over $500 for the Recall Clearance letter and only BMW Canada can modify to the vehicle. Hyundai has closed the border on new sales and some more manufactures may follow. So do yourself a favour and buy whatever you want sooner then later. If you're waiting on a 1% tax cut that will amount to $400 on a $40,000 purchase and miss the boat on saving $5K-25k then wait, otherwise get in now before the border is closed.

Agree with ya there. I may move in the next few weeks to grab the car while I still can. I wanted to wait because my current car's lease still has 7 months to run, as well.

I just realized Infiniti is completely alone among luxury brands that allow both unrestricted sales to Canadians and a full warranty.

BTW I heard that one of the other things BMW makes you do upon import, as of this week, is you MUST replace the ENTIRE US-spec gauge cluster with a Canadian metric one at a cost of...drum roll....$1408 + tax!!! If you don't, no recall letter. What a load of BS. I really like their cars (have an X3 now) but this just pissed me off.

So the extra costs BMW imposes is about $2,500 now. Pure cash grab for their dealers.

[DollarsToDonuts]

I have seen a lot about Subaru's and a few good dealer recommendations. I which I was importing one of those. I am looking at a coupe though, either the new Nissan Altima coupe or a used Infinity G35 (would love a new one but $$$$). Does anyone have a good contact for a Nissan dealer and/or Infinity dealer in the north east area. It seems like a good dealer makes the process so much easier and it would be nice to give a proven dealer more business.
Like others, I am thinking of waiting for the GST cut, but the dollar has been weakening. Canada will cut rates next week, but the US will follow suit. Any thoughts from the economists in the group.

[scouzi]

Agree with ya there. I may move in the next few weeks to grab the car while I still can. I wanted to wait because my current car's lease still has 7 months to run, as well.

I just realized Infiniti is completely alone among luxury brands that allow both unrestricted sales to Canadians and a full warranty.

BTW I heard that one of the other things BMW makes you do upon import, as of this week, is you MUST replace the ENTIRE US-spec gauge cluster with a Canadian metric one at a cost of...drum roll....$1408 + tax!!! If you don't, no recall letter. What a load of BS. I really like their cars (have an X3 now) but this just pissed me off.

So the extra costs BMW imposes is about $2,500 now. Pure cash grab for their dealers.

Man, does BMW suck or what!

Who do they think they are? Some car companies think they are alone in the market. Do they honestly think I will buy a BMW in Canada because of that? No, I will buy another type of car!

Is this required for used BMW cars also?

[FRANKIE]

http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/November2007/30/c6362.html

[Zenfe]

http://www.globeinvestor.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071130.wvehicles1201/GIStory/
Anyone heard of what the proposing changes are? This article sucks without more info.

Ottawa to ease import of U.S. autos

The Canadian Press

Friday, November 30, 2007

OTTAWA — The federal government is proposing changes to motor vehicle safety regulations, which it says will make it easier for Canadians to import U.S. vehicles equipped with electronic anti-theft systems.

edit: FRANKIE found something better :)

[heavychemist]

Geez, I feel like such an idiot. Here I am waiting for RIV to snail mail me a form 2, when I could just call them and get them to e-mail it to me. Came across the border on Monday with our new Tribeca and I faxed them a copy of the recall letter on Tuesday and have been checking the mail every day. Now I read SeeWhy2's post on his experience and realized that they could just e-mail the form to me. Just called RIV and asked if they could e-mail me the form 2. He checked my case number and said, "Yep, no problem". Less then 10 minutes later I have a copy of Form 2 for my vehicle in my hand. :cheesygri Sweet! Thanks SeeWhy2. :cool: This thread is just a wealth of knowledge.

[warpdryv]

http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/November2007/30/c6362.html

"The proposed amendment will be published in the Canada Gazette Part I on
December 1, 2007..."

First one to post the text of the proposed amendment wins a prize....

[klaus]

Here is the link to the gazette detailing teh proposed changes.

http://canadagazette.gc.ca/partI/2007/20071201/pdf/g1-14148.pdf


"The proposed amendment will be published in the Canada Gazette Part I on
December 1, 2007..."

First one to post the text of the proposed amendment wins a prize....

[AdamBr]

Here is the link to the gazette detailing teh proposed changes.

http://canadagazette.gc.ca/partI/2007/20071201/pdf/g1-14148.pdf

OK, if this proposal will be accepted, I'll have my faith back into Canadian government and especially in Transportation ministry.

[scouzi]

Here is the link to the gazette detailing teh proposed changes.

http://canadagazette.gc.ca/partI/2007/20071201/pdf/g1-14148.pdf

This proposed
amendment clarifies that vehicles sold at the retail level in the
United States, that are equipped at the time of manufacture with
an electronic immobilization system, may be imported into Canada
and that those vehicles that do not have an electronic immobilization
system may be imported if the vehicle can be safely
fitted with an aftermarket immobilization system.

[t_garp]

This proposed amendment clarifies that vehicles sold at the retail level in the United States, that are equipped at the time of manufacture with an electronic immobilization system, may be imported into Canada and that those vehicles that do not have an electronic immobilization system may be imported if the vehicle can be safely fitted with an aftermarket immobilization system.



Some manufacturers have also noted concern regarding tampering with the electronic system of the vehicle in the event that a second electronic immobilization system would be required. Manufacturers have noted that they cannot ensure that such features as air bag activation will not be compromised. Finally, installing two electronic immobilization systems can create technical challenges and in-use problems, as each system uses an antenna, which can result in interference issues. Requiring the installation of a second electronic immobilization system would also be unnecessarily expensive. Thus, in the interest of safety, this proposed amendment includes the provision that vehicles sold at the retail level in the United States that have, at the time of manufacture, an electronic immobilization system, may be imported into Canada without further modification.

WOW!!! P #83 of the PDF

NOW if only TC will remove BMW Canada's draconian grasp on the admissibility letter!!!!!

[dotcalamitie]

They had no choice but to do this...I got a 2007 Prius from the US instead of a 2008. So all that was happening was the consumers were importing more and more US cars without immobilizers from the previous model year anyway.

[scouzi]

WOW!!! P #83 of the PDF

NOW if only TC will remove BMW Canada's draconian grasp on the admissibility letter!!!!!


TC really removed the appearance of complicity here!

They pulled the rug.

There is no way for the companies to blame TC now. Of course, it seems that their lobbying efforts against the regulations paid off - to their own chagrin :)

Thanks to MM, this thread is becoming more of a "movement".

[mangoman]

This proposed
amendment clarifies that vehicles sold at the retail level in the
United States, that are equipped at the time of manufacture with
an electronic immobilization system, may be imported into Canada
and that those vehicles that do not have an electronic immobilization
system may be imported if the vehicle can be safely
fitted with an aftermarket immobilization system.

WOO HOOOO!! :D

[SeeWhy2]

Thanks SeeWhy2. :cool: This thread is just a wealth of knowledge.

Welcome ;)

[mangoman]

"The proposed amendment will be published in the Canada Gazette Part I on
December 1, 2007. It would modify section 12 of the Motor Vehicle Safety
Regulations as it pertains to importing new vehicles sold in the United
States. Interested parties have 15 days to comment. The proposed regulation
would take effect shortly after the consultation period."

They (the manufacturers) wouldn't dare try to protest would they saying somthing like "but we went and got specific Cdn immobilizers"? Actually they probably wouldn't be able to since the parts they're using seem to be the same as the Cdn parts already from what others have mentioned here! ;)

[scouzi]

WOO HOOOO!! :D

Some more:

This amendment proposes to deem factory-installed electronic
immobilization systems as acceptable on vehicles privately imported
from the United States by Canadians. Electronic immobilization
systems are very difficult to defeat, as they have over
50 000 different code combinations for the electronic signal. In
addition, they frequently require the use of software to allow for
the replacement of the vehicle key (transponder) or other system
components. Even with the requisite knowledge, replacement
parts and the computer software, many systems have a built-in
replacement time lag so that any component cannot be immediately replaced and the vehicle driven; often it must sit for five minutes
or more. These features, which are built into electronic immobilization
systems, greatly restrict the ability of vehicles to be stolen
for convenience.

[Kamloops]

http://kyra.ca/rivv.jpg

[accorder]

This proposed
amendment clarifies that vehicles sold at the retail level in the
United States, that are equipped at the time of manufacture with
an electronic immobilization system, may be imported into Canada
and that those vehicles that do not have an electronic immobilization
system may be imported if the vehicle can be safely
fitted with an aftermarket immobilization system.


I can luv the government now. yepppp!!!!!

[Kamloops]

But when does this take effect??? I want a truck now!

[mangoman]

So we should expect a change to the List of Admissible Vehicles from the US sometime near the middle or end of December? (Dec. 1 plus 15 days to comment) Or am I being too optimistic? :|

[GoogleFish]

Still seems to be a loophole for manufacturers:

It would also provide for the installation of an aftermarket immobilization system meeting the CAN/ULC-S338-98 standard, for a vehicle that has a mechanical immobilization system or no immobilization system and the manufacturer has not indicated that the vehicle cannot be safely fitted with this type of aftermarket immobilizer.

For vehicles not equipped with an immobilizer, the manufacturer can still deem a vehicle cannot be safely fitted with an aftermarket one.

[scouzi]

Still seems to be a loophole for manufacturers:



For vehicles not equipped with an immobilizer, the manufacturer can still deem a vehicle cannot be safely fitted with an aftermarket one.

Yes but over time, Americans will want immobilizers in their cars as insurance companies will have better rates for the cars that have them.

Provided that the costs are minimal, they will make their way into most cars south of the border.

[Danno2005]

This is a giant step in the right direction. The power of the internet.

I am impressed.

Woohoo.

:D

[t_garp]

Monsieurmaggot time to contact you old buddies at CTV and let them know!!!

Spread the word to Canadians before the car Dealers start contesting the regulation change...Oh wait, weren't they the ones lobbying for this to begin with?

[Trexim]

Still seems to be a loophole for manufacturers:



For vehicles not equipped with an immobilizer, the manufacturer can still deem a vehicle cannot be safely fitted with an aftermarket one.

I am hoping they are not that desperate to falsely declare their own car to have that design flaw... but one never knows

[SPaulS]

:lol: :lol: :lol:
CONGRATULATIONS TO ALL THE MEMBERS & VIEWERS................ DEFINITELY MEMBERS OF CARS WITHOUT BORDERS DESERVE PRAISE

THAT PROVES WORKING TOGETHER BEARS FRUIT ATLAST............

Here is HTML LINK

http://canadagazette.gc.ca/partI/2007/20071201/html/regle14-e.html

CHEERS!!!!!!!!!!!

[kup ladder]

Hi all,

Just wanted to post that as of 1 hour ago, I now have my Ontario plates on my car after some considerable determination to buy my NEW Toyota Sport RAV4.

Thanks for all of those who helped. One thing that rarely gets mentioned apart from the obvious cost savings on the price paid, the taxes on the difference, and cost of financing the difference is the total cost of ownership which is SO much lower for those buy in the States. Remember that if your car is $10,000 less in the States, that's $10,000 less that you're going to lose on your depreciation. That is VERY considerable.

If anyone would like a contact for a Toyota dealer and name who will sell NEW, please PM me.

You guys rock.

[yklivan]

Successfully brought my new Tribeca home today! Waiting for the form 2 to go to Canadian tire. Hope it arrives earlier! Thanks again for everyone who contributed with their valuable experience and information to this thread. Many many thanks. Also thanks to Xan for his very well preparation of all documents.

[Monsieurmaggot]

Monsieurmaggot time to contact you old buddies at CTV and let them know!!!

Spread the word to Canadians before the car Dealers start contesting the regulation change...

I'm sure they're reading this thread.

[wossamattayou]

Just posted on Edmunds:

Yes, this is great news. And I hope some of the people who have been taking shots at the government will now give credit where credit is due. This problem arose on November 1 and it is likely that it will be resolved by mid-December. That is exceptionally fast action for government.

But let's not rest. We should all use the 15 day period for comments to pressure for a new mechanism to determine if there are recalls. For example, I would think that it would not be too onerous to require a manufacturer to post online a list of recalls with a date stamp on each page of the report. Then, all that would be required would be for the importer to print out a copy of the online report (dated within 3 days of the date of import) and present that at the border. In order to get Form 2, a further printout of the report, dated after the date of import, would show that there was no recall between the date of the first report and the date of import. No extra work for CBS, only one more form at RIV and no work for the manufacturers, other than updating an online report. And the consumer would not be subject to being held hostage to riduculous fees or unreasonable times of response.

The important thing is to take away the ability of the manufacturers to be the gatekeeper. Now's our chance. Get out the pens and paper and start sending in comments requesting an additional provision taking away the recall letters. Be sure to use the examples of BMW, etc. to show how the manufacturers are trying to screw the consumers.

Keep up the great work!

[showMeAnImport]

Man, does BMW suck or what!

Who do they think they are? Some car companies think they are alone in the market. Do they honestly think I will buy a BMW in Canada because of that? No, I will buy another type of car!

Is this required for used BMW cars also?

Seriously...this is getting ********....this will be the next thing that we need to demand our government works on fixing. Basically, the GOC needs to take firm action against ******** manufacturers like this and basically say to them that if they want to do business in our country that they will not be allowed to pursue the Canadian consumer with such agression...and this is exactly what it is...blatent anti-competitive behavior designed to contribute towards boxing the Canadian consumer into a corner with no where to go....call my statements dramatic but this is how I see...

These SOBs need to be put in their place. And you bring up a really good point. I am thinking exactly the same way you are on this. I am going to have a long memory on how the various manufacturers are behaving during this higher dollar time that we are experiencing. For me a quality vehicle isn 't enough any more. I want a manufacturer's business practices to exhibit as much quality or more than their vehicle(s)...If they do not then they will not be seeing my goddamn money on either side of the F'in border....

I am beyond sick and tired of these absolutely blatent tactics. Do what you want with your business presence in this country but get the hell out of my way when it comes to your standing in the way of my right to choose as a consumer. I recent you huge for it and I know many many close personal friends and relatives who feel exactly the same way....

I really think some of these manufacturers are underestimating the future impact their actions might have on their business in Canada. Your nerve and total disrespect for Canadians will not go unnoticed...

Cut your losses and deal with reality...

Rant over

Cheers

[showMeAnImport]

Agree with ya there. I may move in the next few weeks to grab the car while I still can. I wanted to wait because my current car's lease still has 7 months to run, as well.

I just realized Infiniti is completely alone among luxury brands that allow both unrestricted sales to Canadians and a full warranty.

BTW I heard that one of the other things BMW makes you do upon import, as of this week, is you MUST replace the ENTIRE US-spec gauge cluster with a Canadian metric one at a cost of...drum roll....$1408 + tax!!! If you don't, no recall letter. What a load of BS. I really like their cars (have an X3 now) but this just pissed me off.

So the extra costs BMW imposes is about $2,500 now. Pure cash grab for their dealers.

Jesus this rots me...

Who the F do they think they are??!?!?!?!?!?

These types of decisions/enforcement are made by governments...not friggin car manufacturers...

I always have admired BMW product but I just could not possibly support such BS...Unless they back down on this crap in short order they will never see a penny from me...Always saw myself with a nice 3 series at some point but the arrogance is killing me....

Bleep you and the horse you road in on BMW...seriously...where do you get the nerve is what I would like to know...

Sorry guys...I know I said my rant was over in my previous post but... :-)

Cheers

[Kamloops]

Jesus this rots me...

Who the F do they think they are??!?!?!?!?!?

These types of decisions/enforcement are made by governments...not friggin car manufacturers...

I always have admired BMW product but I just could not possibly support such BS...Unless they back down on this crap in short order they will never see a penny from me...Always saw myself with a nice 3 series at some point but the arrogance is killing me....

Bleep you and the horse you road in on BMW...seriously...where do you get the nerve is what I would like to know...

Sorry guys...I know I said my rant was over in my previous post but... :-)

Cheers

Sucks! I was goingto pull the trigger on a z4 this spring! I am so mad !!!

[GougingCarCartelGroup]

Yeah BMW are really A-holes, their glass showrooms look too rich, i guess the money they steal from our pockets go towards making their showrooms museum like.


Man, does BMW suck or what!

Who do they think they are? Some car companies think they are alone in the market. Do they honestly think I will buy a BMW in Canada because of that? No, I will buy another type of car!

Is this required for used BMW cars also?

[showMeAnImport]

Cost me $400 for my 2008. They change the F to C on the digital thermometers, trip computer, change the odometer and speedometer. Now you'd never know the difference.

Who did this for you? No need to replace anything physically? Just reprogramming and whatnot? Cant they do it for any vehicle etc?

Cheers

[ziploc]

OK, if this proposal will be accepted, I'll have my faith back into Canadian government and especially in Transportation ministry.

Same here...that's some great news...and here again the conservative party is actually acting instead of promising things

[showMeAnImport]

I'm sick and tired of reading about people publicly critisizing my methods. I'm not going to name any names, but you know who you are. You're absolutely correct, I have ten posts, now eleven, and each and every one of them promotes myself. How much money have I saved RFD members? I've never claimed to be the only show in town. That's the thing about it, consumers can buy a new Subaru from whomever they want to. They choose to buy from me. Do you know why they buy from me? They purchase from me, because they don't get stuck at the border with bad or disorganized paperwork, because they save thousands, because they've heard great reviews about me. That's why they buy from me. Of course I'm making money off the sales, I don't work for free, nobody does. My pricing is always fair, always way below invoice and there are no surprises when dealing with me. For those of you who don't want me on this post anymore, why don't you ask how the 35 RFD members who love me feel about me being on this post? If this post is so bad, then stop reading it! It's that simple, and do yourself a favor. If you're going to mention your 5th grade kid in a post, have him proof read it for errors so you don't look like a fool. For those of you serious about buying a Subaru please contact me so I can help you save thousands...

Hey man...keep on posting...I don't blame you...If we're allowed to benefit from the current dollar situation I don't see why you shouldn't be able too...You idiots in here that are on his case basically can't figure out what you want....One minute you're pissed at manufacturers and dealers for aggression against the consumer and then in the same breath your bitching against a guy that is helping our cause essentially...don't see the logic there but anyway...

Keep on keepin' on brother...screw your critics...I hope you're gettin' rich...

Cheers

[Kamloops]

Yeah BMW are really A-holes, their glass showrooms look too rich, i guess the money they steal from our pockets go towards making their showrooms museum like.

So what the heck is going on with RIV to accept this crap from BMW. What will stopy toyota, honda and other doing this.

OK, now the deadline of the 27th has passed, its now a little clearer whats happening. This is for BMW cars imported AFTER 27th only

You have to get a letter of admissibilty before you collect the car in the US and show it to Customs!!!!
You then have to goto the BMW Canada Dealer and have DRL's and possibly the cluster changed. Apparently the mph-km/h is changed to kms only (which seems mad). The latest RIV list clearly states this HAS to be completed by a BMW Canada dealer, so not sure where that leaves you if a) you can access this with I-drive or b) already have DRL's

[Lax5]

Recently received an email from a Nissan dealership indicating that they now need to mark sales to Canadians as "Export Sale." In addition the salesperson indicated that they will no longer be able to allow rebates for Canadian purchasers, but that the warranty would now be acceptable. Anyone else have a similar experience? Anyone other than Digii have warranty work done on a Nissan? I brought my Frontier back last Christmas and have been told by the local dealership that warranty work would be done, but would like to have a backup plan if/when I need to get anything fixed.

[whampoa]

We should all take a stand against the likes of BMW and all those jokers who think they can do whatever they want against us, the smart shoppers.

Otherwise, they will continue to walk and stamp their dirty, smelly and ugly feet at our face.

United We Stand, Divided We Fall!

[BeeBee]

Seriously...this is getting ********....this will be the next thing that we need to demand our government works on fixing. Basically, the GOC needs to take firm action against ******** manufacturers like this and basically say to them that if they want to do business in our country that they will not be allowed to pursue the Canadian consumer with such agression...and this is exactly what it is...blatent anti-competitive behavior designed to contribute towards boxing the Canadian consumer into a corner with no where to go....call my statements dramatic but this is how I see...

These SOBs need to be put in their place. And you bring up a really good point. I am thinking exactly the same way you are on this. I am going to have a long memory on how the various manufacturers are behaving during this higher dollar time that we are experiencing. For me a quality vehicle isn 't enough any more. I want a manufacturer's business practices to exhibit as much quality or more than their vehicle(s)...If they do not then they will not be seeing my goddamn money on either side of the F'in border....

I am beyond sick and tired of these absolutely blatent tactics. Do what you want with your business presence in this country but get the hell out of my way when it comes to your standing in the way of my right to choose as a consumer. I recent you huge for it and I know many many close personal friends and relatives who feel exactly the same way....

I really think some of these manufacturers are underestimating the future impact their actions might have on their business in Canada. Your nerve and total disrespect for Canadians will not go unnoticed...

Cut your losses and deal with reality...

Rant over

Cheers

We should all take a stand against the likes of BMW and all those jokers who think they can do whatever they want against us, the smart shoppers.

Otherwise, they will continue to walk and stamp their dirty, smelly and ugly feet at our face.

United We Stand, Divided We Fall!

I fully agree with both of you. Manufacturers/businesses need to have quality products and as well as excellent business practice. Because of their poor behavior, I will never consider buying cars from BMW, Toyota and Honda!!! :evil: :evil:

[Kamloops]

Does anybody know is a print out from a USA BMW dealer would workm thus bypassing the BMW Canada Crap? I found a dealer that will print this and do dlr on a z4 for 45 bucks


In some cases, we will also accept a printout from an authorized American dealer. If you obtain a printout from an American dealer, you must ensure that they are an authorized dealer and not a re-seller. You can confirm this by calling the head office of the manufacturer and providing them with the location of the dealership in question

If the printout is from an authorized American dealership, the company stamp must be affixed to the printout. In either case, the 17 digit Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) of the vehicle in question must be included in the letter.

[Snugster24]

Excellent thread!

I recently imported an 08 Camry from an authorized Toyota Dealership with no problems. Well, except for the recall clearance letter...which I am still trying to get.

...but here is a question I could not find an answer to on this thread...

Can you sell your imported vehicle after getting it certified to Canadian standards and registered in Ontario? Someone mentioned to me there was a year wait, but I can't locate that reference on any government site.

Anyone know where to look for it or know the answer?


Thanks!!

[bluemule999]

I struck a deal with Xan. Very easy and smooth. All done exactly as expected.

Beautiful car! Congrats! Who'd you buy it off of? Xan or Jack?

[michelb]

Does anybody know is a print out from a USA BMW dealer would workm thus bypassing the BMW Canada Crap? I found a dealer that will print this and do dlr on a z4 for 45 bucks


In some cases, we will also accept a printout from an authorized American dealer. If you obtain a printout from an American dealer, you must ensure that they are an authorized dealer and not a re-seller. You can confirm this by calling the head office of the manufacturer and providing them with the location of the dealership in question

If the printout is from an authorized American dealership, the company stamp must be affixed to the printout. In either case, the 17 digit Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) of the vehicle in question must be included in the letter.

Use to be yes but not anymore. BMW Canada has changed their policy to match Mercedes - basically everything must be done through BMW authorized dealers. As detailed in recent posts, it appears that you need to get the letter from BMW Canada $500, I believe BMW Canada requires an inspection for $350, sounds like they require modifications to the dash / computer / console to the tune of $1000+.

Just look back in the last 10 pages or so and other posts have all the details.

[showMeAnImport]

Excellent thread!

I recently imported an 08 Camry from an authorized Toyota Dealership with no problems. Well, except for the recall clearance letter...which I am still trying to get.

...but here is a question I could not find an answer to on this thread...

Can you sell your imported vehicle after getting it certified to Canadian standards and registered in Ontario? Someone mentioned to me there was a year wait, but I can't locate that reference on any government site.

Anyone know where to look for it or know the answer?


Thanks!!

Surprised to hear you are having a problem getting a recall clearance letter from Toyota...That is one things they have apparently been really great about for people...

Are they refusing to give you one or something?

Cheers

[shopper-X]

Does anybody know is a print out from a USA BMW dealer would workm thus bypassing the BMW Canada Crap? I found a dealer that will print this and do dlr on a z4 for 45 bucks


In some cases, we will also accept a printout from an authorized American dealer. If you obtain a printout from an American dealer, you must ensure that they are an authorized dealer and not a re-seller. You can confirm this by calling the head office of the manufacturer and providing them with the location of the dealership in question

If the printout is from an authorized American dealership, the company stamp must be affixed to the printout. In either case, the 17 digit Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) of the vehicle in question must be included in the letter.

The text in the notes section for BMW looks like the one Mercedes Benz had before they just listed a website (http://www.mercedes-benz.ca/admissibility).
Basically, BMW Canada is requiring you to have a "Letter of Admissibility" to show CBSA before the vehicle can even enter/be imported in to Canada. So now BMW Canada is wasting tax payers money and making CSBA the BMW Police.

On top of that, the required work must be preformed by an authorized BMW dealer.

There is one thing BMW did that MB did not and that is that you can find out the EXACT cost before you purchase and import the vehicle.


Please contact an authorized Canadian BMW or MINI Retailer to request a letter of admissibility, and for information regarding the exact nature and costs of modifications required. The modifications vary by model and may be expensive.

ALL modifications MUST be performed by an authorized Canadian BMW or MINI Retailer and must be completed before a recall clearance letter can be issued by BMW Group Canada. Prior to reviewing your request for a letter of admissibility, the following information must be provided:
- Model
- Model year
- 17-digit Vehicle Identification Number (VIN)

An official letter of admissibility from BMW Group Canada must be presented to a Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) officer at time of importation. In addition, the official recall clearance letter obtained from BMW Group Canada once the required retrofits have been completed and documented by an authorized Canadian BMW or Mini Retailer, must be presented to the Registrar
of Imported Vehicles in order to properly register a vehicle.

[bluemule999]

Please take your crap elsewhere. Xan is a straightforward person. He deals with you honestly and gives fair prices. He also follows through with what he says. He is allowed to make a living!

I don't see any difference between you and a ROGERS cell phone dealer coming into the Rogers Retentions thread and saying"I can save you tons of money blah blah blah blah".

[GougingCarCartelGroup]

I recently had one guy from work tell me that he would gladly pay 15K more for a BMW in Canada so he can get the BMW Canada Dealership support and exclusivity of driving a 335 :)

Some people confuse the 3 Series with the 6, 7, or M series from BMW's lineup. To me the 3 series is not a luxury car, the only luxury is the theft they do when they rob you when you purchase this overpriced car.

The 3 is an entry level car, it should not cost 41K and up.
In my opinion the 328 four dour should be 34,000
328 coupe should start at 36,000.

The 335 four door should be 42,000
The 335 coupe should be 44,000

I could stomach the above pricing for the 3 series.

The 7 Series from BMW is so overpriced i want to laugh........ i bet you they would gladly give you discounts of 15-25K and give you 2% interest for you to purchase those overpriced tanks.

[J233]

I went to the US Export office on Wednesday this week at 1:30 at Queenston. The process took about 60 seconds, there were three other guys there, I didn't have to wait more than a minute.
Hm....that quick ? Did they even pull your fax/file or just stamped the original title ?

[dotcalamitie]

yes, the lady took my registration, walked two steps to her left, pulled out a folder, took the matching document out, took the two papers to the window, stamped them, handed me mine and away I went. Her time involved was less than 60 seconds. I stood around for about 3 minutes while she dealt with some guy who hadn't faxed his document to that location and of course he was distraught. BTW, I had my documents in their hands about three weeks earlier (I was worried that after that much time they wouldn't have it).

[Snocow]

Since nobody replied...I guess I will be at the Queenston - Lewiston Bridge customs on Monday morning importing my 2008 Camry SE all alone!

There's gotta be at least one other RFD'er who is crossing at the same time.

Damn...I should'a got a RFD sticker to stick to the import office door!

[dotcalamitie]

My niece just moved to New Jersey right across from NYC where she works now. My brother wants a BMW X5. If he purchases an X5 in New York State, can we use my nieces NJ address or does my niece have to purchase the vehicle?

[bluemule999]

Response to my email from Jeremy Cato:

Of course there are savings to be had. Nothing new in that. I have written about this scores of times in the Globe, for the past 18 months. Long before any other newspaper even touched the issue. Do your research.

Look, the piece was not about pricing; it was about crossing all your "Ts" and dotting all your "Is" -- paying attention to the details -- before you import a U.S. car. Most people are NOT good at this. They need to be told in no uncertain terms that there are hoops through which they will need to jump. I never said it can't be done. What the article does is emphasize that it's not as easy as buying a sweater at Target. And I think most of the stories on this have implied it is -- misleading people.

In any number of articles and online forums I have repeatedly told readers to import if they can get a better deal. Just be aware of what's involved.

JC

Email I sent to Jeremy Cato...full of #$$%^^&^.

Mr. Cato,

I can use much stronger language...you are full of it. Journalists are supposed to be objective. Your column "Attention shoppers: beware red tape" is so full of errors and misleading information that it is almost criminal. Just quoting Dennis DesRosiers confirms that you are lazy journalist that simply regurgitates wrong facts. I have to wonder if you are actually being paid by the auto manufacturers to spout their lame excuses for fleecing Canadians out of thousands of dollars.

I speak from personal experience. I just imported a brand new 2008 Subaru Legacy GT Limited. I saved $15000 dollars after all taxes and expenses have been factored in. Other cars I researched and considered buying:

2008 Nissan Altima 3.5 SL - $9000 savings
2008 Volkswagen Jetta GLI - $10000 savings

Many other compact to mid-size cars fall into a savings range of $5000-10000.

The process of importing is straightforward to follow and is definitely not complicated. The auto manufacturers and Transport Canada are making it complicated. Journalists like you are causing additional confusion.

Investigate, do some homework, then report the facts!!!

http://www.carswithoutborders.com/
http://www.carburner.com/index.php?title=Main_Page
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=307601
www.ataleoftwoprices.com

[J233]

yes, the lady took my registration, walked two steps to her left, pulled out a folder, took the matching document out, took the two papers to the window, stamped them, handed me mine and away I went. Her time involved was less than 60 seconds. I stood around for about 3 minutes while she dealt with some guy who hadn't faxed his document to that location and of course he was distraught. BTW, I had my documents in their hands about three weeks earlier (I was worried that after that much time they wouldn't have it).

Wow, that's great. Hope it will work in my case too. What worries me is that the copies of the title that the dealer had faxed to US Customs may not be readable (too dark). I asked him to fax the copy of the title to my fax too and it looks like crap. Hope that they can read the VIN # from the cover letter and we also faxed a copy of the bill of sale. If they turn me back I am stuck in Detroit tomorrow evening....hopefully not.

[baz5]

I'm sick and tired of reading about people publicly critisizing my methods. I'm not going to name any names, but you know who you are. You're absolutely correct, I have ten posts, now eleven, and each and every one of them promotes myself. How much money have I saved RFD members? I've never claimed to be the only show in town. That's the thing about it, consumers can buy a new Subaru from whomever they want to. They choose to buy from me. Do you know why they buy from me? They purchase from me, because they don't get stuck at the border with bad or disorganized paperwork, because they save thousands, because they've heard great reviews about me. That's why they buy from me. Of course I'm making money off the sales, I don't work for free, nobody does. My pricing is always fair, always way below invoice and there are no surprises when dealing with me. For those of you who don't want me on this post anymore, why don't you ask how the 35 RFD members who love me feel about me being on this post? If this post is so bad, then stop reading it! It's that simple, and do yourself a favor. If you're going to mention your 5th grade kid in a post, have him proof read it for errors so you don't look like a fool. For those of you serious about buying a Subaru please contact me so I can help you save thousands...


boo hoo, wipe away your tears with the thousands you are making off the members of this FREE board that isn't YOURS.

What makes you so special you can spam this forum and make money?
This is no different than a computer salesman going to some computer forum and start making posts promoting his business... those posts would last 2 seconds, as should yours.

You don't even see the SPONSORS of this board doing what you are doing, and they are PAYING to be here.

[Danno2005]

Hey baz5-

Go find a round room and go sit in the corner. Hopefully it will keep you occupied for a few years.....and away from this forum.

:twisted:

[baz5]

Hey baz5-

Go find a round room and go sit in the corner. Hopefully it will keep you occupied for a few years.....and away from this forum.

:twisted:

Are you 12? Honestly?

[st7860]

boo hoo, wipe away your tears with the thousands you are making off the members of this FREE board that isn't YOURS.

What makes you so special you can spam this forum and make money?
This is no different than a computer salesman going to some computer forum and start making posts promoting his business... those posts would last 2 seconds, as should yours.

You don't even see the SPONSORS of this board doing what you are doing, and they are PAYING to be here.

i hereby and solemnly declare, +1

however if this subaru guy was actually sponsoring this board, thats a whole different ball of earwax.

[mangoman]

boo hoo, wipe away your tears with the thousands you are making off the members of this FREE board that isn't YOURS.

What makes you so special you can spam this forum and make money?
This is no different than a computer salesman going to some computer forum and start making posts promoting his business... those posts would last 2 seconds, as should yours.

You don't even see the SPONSORS of this board doing what you are doing, and they are PAYING to be here.

Uhhh maybe if Toyota/Honda/GM etc. didn't try and control where the average Cdn can or cannot purchase their car, there might be other dealers posting here and then maybe just maybe you'd have an argument. But right now I don't see that - in fact if one of those dealers did try to post, they'd get threatened by the parent co. - so kudos to any dealer (and their parent co.) for allowing them to sell/promote these HUGE cost savings to Cdns like us.

:razz:

[Takada]

Wow, baz5, give it a rest. Some of you RFDers are just disgraceful to the website.

[baz5]

Making tens of thousands of dollars off someone else's site is disgraceful, if you ask me.

[Takada]

Making tens of thousands of dollars off someone else's site is disgraceful, if you ask me.

And why's that? We've had tons of "insider" postings of sales ads before they are distributed via mail, or even the shopadidas website owner posting his own promotion here. Not to mention the plethora of restaurant deals/coupons that pops up on the food forums from the owners or their friends. I think you're on the wrong website then if you don't like this.

[showMeAnImport]

Making tens of thousands of dollars off someone else's site is disgraceful, if you ask me.

Oh yes...an absolute complete disgrace...

Get over yourself...

Here's a newsflash...Canadian's are going to find him either way...If anything he is doing us a favour....

Do you have nothing better to do?

Seriously...

[Kamloops]

Use to be yes but not anymore. BMW Canada has changed their policy to match Mercedes - basically everything must be done through BMW authorized dealers. As detailed in recent posts, it appears that you need to get the letter from BMW Canada $500, I believe BMW Canada requires an inspection for $350, sounds like they require modifications to the dash / computer / console to the tune of $1000+.

Just look back in the last 10 pages or so and other posts have all the details.

I should not have to give a turd about BMW policy. What about RIV.

Says right on Rivs site - In some cases, we will also accept a printout from an authorized American dealer. If you obtain a printout from an American dealer, you must ensure that they are an authorized dealer and not a re-seller. You can confirm this by calling the head office of the manufacturer and providing them with the location of the dealership in question
If the printout is from an authorized American dealership, the company stamp must be affixed to the printout. In either case, the 17 digit Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) of the vehicle in question must be included in the letter.
If your vehicle does not have any outstanding recalls then the letter should say "this vehicle has no outstanding recalls." This letter must be presented to the RIV department prior to your Vehicle Inspection Form being released.

This was fine with RIV for every other make, is BMW running RIV now? What stops other car makers from pulling this crap!

Where does RIV get direction from. How can BMW get away with this.!!!!!!
BWM can fo
I dont see anything in any Canadian Law saying a car needs a letter of admissibility!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BMW go screw yourselfs!!! I will never own another beamer as long as I live!

[yklivan]

I'm sick and tired of reading about people publicly critisizing my methods. I'm not going to name any names, but you know who you are. You're absolutely correct, I have ten posts, now eleven, and each and every one of them promotes myself. How much money have I saved RFD members? I've never claimed to be the only show in town. That's the thing about it, consumers can buy a new Subaru from whomever they want to. They choose to buy from me. Do you know why they buy from me? They purchase from me, because they don't get stuck at the border with bad or disorganized paperwork, because they save thousands, because they've heard great reviews about me. That's why they buy from me. Of course I'm making money off the sales, I don't work for free, nobody does. My pricing is always fair, always way below invoice and there are no surprises when dealing with me. For those of you who don't want me on this post anymore, why don't you ask how the 35 RFD members who love me feel about me being on this post? If this post is so bad, then stop reading it! It's that simple, and do yourself a favor. If you're going to mention your 5th grade kid in a post, have him proof read it for errors so you don't look like a fool. For those of you serious about buying a Subaru please contact me so I can help you save thousands...

I can witness what Xan has said is true because today when I went to the US border office at Highgate Spring to export my car, the man before me was questioned by the officer for missing information on the certificate of origin. However, the certificate of origin I got from Xan for my Tribeca is well completed and I spent less than 1 min with another officer. When I left, the man before me who bought a Volvo from a Burlington dealer was still with that officer.

[rgc97]

Transport Canada is proposing an amendment to immobilizer regulations, which will allow US vehicles with an electronic immobilizer to come into Canada. This will clear things up for many people, and take away the ploy used by several manufacturers to prevent us from bringing in vehicles.

See: http://canadagazette.gc.ca/partI/2007/20071201/html/regle14-e.html

It's important, during the 15 day review period, to have as many RFDers as possible endorse this proposed change.

WHAT TO DO

e-mail your comment to: davisda@tc.gc.ca <davisda@tc.gc.ca>

E-Mail heading: RE: Regulations Amending the Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations (Importation of Vehicles — Section 12); Canada Gazette, Vol. 141, No. 48 — December 1, 2007

Suggested Message:

Dear Minister:

As a Canadian taxpayer, and recent importer of a US purchased vehicle, I strongly support these proposed changes. I want to thank Transport Canada for a fair and thorough analysis of the situation, and the proposal of an excellent solution.

I remain concerned that manufacturers will continue to try to thwart the right of Canadians to 'vote with their wallets'. If manufacturers would adjust their Canadian prices to more closely align with US prices, there would be no need for Canadians to go south for their vehicle purchase.

It is unfortunate (and to me, unethical) that manufacturers are using the current immobilizer regulations to prevent the importation of many popular vehicles, at typical savings of ten to twenty thousand dollars. Transport Canada could not have anticipated this when the original regulations were drafted, and then brought into law. The proposed changes will correct this embarrassing situation.

I look forward to the registration of these regulations, and the return to fairer trade in vehicles.

Yours truly,

<Your name here>

[Danno2005]

Are you 12? Honestly?

Just trying to relate to you at the level of competence you're displaying.

I figure 8 years old was my targeted level of communication.

[SPaulS]

Excellent thread!

I recently imported an 08 Camry from an authorized Toyota Dealership with no problems. Well, except for the recall clearance letter...which I am still trying to get.

...but here is a question I could not find an answer to on this thread...

Can you sell your imported vehicle after getting it certified to Canadian standards and registered in Ontario? Someone mentioned to me there was a year wait, but I can't locate that reference on any government site.

Anyone know where to look for it or know the answer?


Thanks!!




Have you looked at the FORM 1? Any conditions ? Usually information is there.

[Snugster24]

Surprised to hear you are having a problem getting a recall clearance letter from Toyota...That is one things they have apparently been really great about for people...

Are they refusing to give you one or something?

Cheers

There is a recall out on all weather floor matts...and I didn't have them installed (they are an option). I have already imported the Camry but can't get a straight answer how to remove the recall from the file on my vehicle at Toyota. If I can they will issue a recall....

...I don't get it. No floor matts in the car...but must have recall fixed....


Anyone know if you can sell a import within the first year???

[careener]

Woohoo.. Gov just changed the rules officially

[Snugster24]

Have you looked at the FORM 1? Any conditions ? Usually information is there.

...good point...

Ok...I looked at form 1.

Here's what I found near the top:

This conveyance may not be sold or disposed of in Canada:

(Blank Box) At anytime, without authorization from CBSA
(Blank Box) On or before...blank.
(CHECKED BOX) This conveyance is not subject to a disposal restriction.


I think that answers my question. Thanks SPaulS!!!

[rfd_parasite]

Looks like you can import the new cars

http://www.globeinvestor.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071130.r-autos01/GIStory/

[Kamloops]

Here is some contact emails addresses for some BMW Canada higher ups.

If every sends them emails and complains maybe they will change. Nort sure if these emails work any more but worth a shot


Lindsay.Duffield@bmwgroup.ca - Lindsay Duffield president and CEO of BMW Group Canada

robert.dexter@bmwgroup.ca - Rob Dexter, Product and Technology Specialist, BMW Group Canada

kevin.marcotte@bmwgroup.ca - Kevin Marcotte, Corporate Communications Manager, BMW Group Canada

stacy.morris@bmwgroup.ca - Stacy Morris, Corporate Communications, Business, Lifestyle and Marketing Specialist, BMW Group Canada




And here are a bunch more emails to send your complaints to about the system of RIV, Transport Canada and the auto manufacturers all in bed together!!!

mintc@tc.gc.ca, CBSA-ASFC@canada.gc.ca, info@livingstonintl.com, RoadSafetyWebMail@tc.gc.ca, pm@pm.gc.ca, Dion.S@parl.gc.ca, Duceppe.G@parl.gc.ca, Layton.J@parl.gc.ca, sitecanadasite@canada.gc.ca, compbureau@cb-bc.gc.ca, Hinton.B@parl.gc.ca, info@riv.ca, ctvglobemediacommunications@ctvglobemedia.com, davisda@tc.gc.ca, jcato@globeandmail.com, consumer.information@ic.gc.ca, helps@pulse24.com,

[thebat88]

This thread is great.... finally i got my Tribeca 7-passenger with dvd and navi today from Karl.

Even with today's exchange rate, I still save >$17,000 assuming the local dealership here willing to give 5% discount.

Here is the whole day itinerary:
- Drove to Rochester aiport with the National car rental.... (used the Big 10 code and get $48/day + 20 cents/km) at 6:30am and arrived at 10am.
Somehow, the odometer reading recorded in their computer is much more than what i have in the car... so i end up paying only $10 of mileage from Toronto to Rochester :lol: :lol: so total is $67 CAD

- Karl sent someone to pickme up at airport.... arrived the dealership at around 10:45am... go through all the documents and left at around 11:30am
- grab some lunch and drop by walmart to pickup something...
- arrived at US border around 2:40pm, there were about 7 people already in front of me....
- arrived at Canadian border at 2:55 and leave around 3:25... there's huge lineup for Customs. (a lot of new vehicles)
- arrived at RIV office late by 10 min... but i managed to sneak inside and the nice lady willing to do my case :)
- went to cdn tire at queensway and have it inspected in about 30 min...
- will do licensing sat morning

[careener]

Congrats on your new Tribeca..Enjoy it and its's high resale value.

[GougingCarCartelGroup]

He sent me the exact same response. :) hahaaha

Response to my email from Jeremy Cato:

Of course there are savings to be had. Nothing new in that. I have written about this scores of times in the Globe, for the past 18 months. Long before any other newspaper even touched the issue. Do your research.

Look, the piece was not about pricing; it was about crossing all your "Ts" and dotting all your "Is" -- paying attention to the details -- before you import a U.S. car. Most people are NOT good at this. They need to be told in no uncertain terms that there are hoops through which they will need to jump. I never said it can't be done. What the article does is emphasize that it's not as easy as buying a sweater at Target. And I think most of the stories on this have implied it is -- misleading people.

In any number of articles and online forums I have repeatedly told readers to import if they can get a better deal. Just be aware of what's involved.

JC

[GougingCarCartelGroup]

That name Lindsay Duffield rings a bell, wasn't he the guy on that radio show a few weeks back talking about stuff? It was posted on this forum?

If that is the case, that guy is full of crap , and sending him email is a waste of time, since he is obviously a thief at best.

I wrote at least 40 emails to the government apes in Canada, and at least as many to manufacturers...

Just because they are planning to change that idiotic moronic immobilizer BS, don't mean the government is A OK in my book. They are still swine’s, who don't deserve our votes until they do the following:

1) Remote the moronic 6.1 duty on cars imported from the USA.
2) Investigate the bastard car manufacturers for their cartel like behavior. Pricing a car 2-4K is one thing, but overpricing it by 15-40K is just criminal.



Here is some contact emails addresses for some BMW Canada higher ups.

If every sends them emails and complains maybe they will change. Nort sure if these emails work any more but worth a shot


Lindsay.Duffield@bmwgroup.ca - Lindsay Duffield president and CEO of BMW Group Canada

robert.dexter@bmwgroup.ca - Rob Dexter, Product and Technology Specialist, BMW Group Canada

kevin.marcotte@bmwgroup.ca - Kevin Marcotte, Corporate Communications Manager, BMW Group Canada

stacy.morris@bmwgroup.ca - Stacy Morris, Corporate Communications, Business, Lifestyle and Marketing Specialist, BMW Group Canada




And here are a bunch more emails to send your complaints to about the system of RIV, Transport Canada and the auto manufacturers all in bed together!!!

mintc@tc.gc.ca, CBSA-ASFC@canada.gc.ca, info@livingstonintl.com, RoadSafetyWebMail@tc.gc.ca, pm@pm.gc.ca, Dion.S@parl.gc.ca, Duceppe.G@parl.gc.ca, Layton.J@parl.gc.ca, sitecanadasite@canada.gc.ca, compbureau@cb-bc.gc.ca, Hinton.B@parl.gc.ca, info@riv.ca, ctvglobemediacommunications@ctvglobemedia.com, davisda@tc.gc.ca, jcato@globeandmail.com, consumer.information@ic.gc.ca, helps@pulse24.com,

[03terminator]

So, the tide went out and we see who is swimming naked, Since Transport Canada did the right thing for Canadians, we should focus on the OEMS discriminatory trade practices. US banks were giving mortgages to illegal aliens and a Canadians cannot buy a new car!

[eastsidesubaru]

Transport Canada is proposing an amendment to immobilizer regulations, which will allow US vehicles with an electronic immobilizer to come into Canada. This will clear things up for many people, and take away the ploy used by several manufacturers to prevent us from bringing in vehicles.

See: http://canadagazette.gc.ca/partI/2007/20071201/html/regle14-e.html

It's important, during the 15 day review period, to have as many RFDers as possible endorse this proposed change.

WHAT TO DO

e-mail your comment to: davisda@tc.gc.ca <davisda@tc.gc.ca>

E-Mail heading: RE: Regulations Amending the Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations (Importation of Vehicles — Section 12); Canada Gazette, Vol. 141, No. 48 — December 1, 2007

Suggested Message:

Dear Minister:

As a Canadian taxpayer, and recent importer of a US purchased vehicle, I strongly support these proposed changes. I want to thank Transport Canada for a fair and thorough analysis of the situation, and the proposal of an excellent solution.

I remain concerned that manufacturers will continue to try to thwart the right of Canadians to 'vote with their wallets'. If manufacturers would adjust their Canadian prices to more closely align with US prices, there would be no need for Canadians to go south for their vehicle purchase.

It is unfortunate (and to me, unethical) that manufacturers are using the current immobilizer regulations to prevent the importation of many popular vehicles, at typical savings of ten to twenty thousand dollars. Transport Canada could not have anticipated this when the original regulations were drafted, and then brought into law. The proposed changes will correct this embarrassing situation.

I look forward to the registration of these regulations, and the return to fairer trade in vehicles.

Yours truly,

<Your name here>


WOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! :cheesygri :cheesygri :cheesygri :cheesygri


STI's/WRXs and Forester XTs are back on the table, folks!

[eastsidesubaru]

i hereby and solemnly declare, +1

however if this subaru guy was actually sponsoring this board, thats a whole different ball of earwax.

Well there is a difference between self promotion or also trying to help out and participate in the discussion and contribute information. (I am not saying Xan is doing one or the other but just making a point).. Not to toot my own horn but I feel like I am pretty well versed in the process now since I do often have to help walk my customers through it. So I am here to self promote but also just to generally participate in the discussion and help out. Be aware that for dealers like Xan and I, we often spend 5 times as much time and energy on a canadian deal as a local one and in my case I make the same commission.. so give him a break... If you are selling cars to Canada you have to enjoy it at least a little bit since it is fairly time consuming. Not to mention there are a /lot/ more things that can go wrong. But it is fun to help out and nice to think that I am saving people $10,000+ and introducing new people to a brand I am love with (Subaru) that normally might not be able to afford the car they are buying...
I can't tell you how many canadians have come up to me when they are taking delivery of their new car and said, "Zach, thank you so much... Honestly if we couldn't get this pricing, we wouldn't be buying a (Tribeca, etc) as we simply couldn't afford it." ... So that is a pretty *cool* feeling and definitely rewarding. Anyway I'm rambling now but you get the point..give Xan a break.

[whampoa]

Looks like you can import the new cars

http://www.globeinvestor.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071130.r-autos01/GIStory/

What goes around comes around.

... Ottawa's move has also created a loophole that's certain to irk auto makers, who as of Sept. 1 have been required to include immobilizers in vehicles sold in Canada – devices that meet stricter standards than those in the U.S.

Stricter standards my a$$, the only difference is a few letter changes from F to C.

[davehender]

Transport Canada is proposing an amendment to immobilizer regulations, which will allow US vehicles with an electronic immobilizer to come into Canada. This will clear things up for many people, and take away the ploy used by several manufacturers to prevent us from bringing in vehicles.

See: http://canadagazette.gc.ca/partI/2007/20071201/html/regle14-e.html

It's important, during the 15 day review period, to have as many RFDers as possible endorse this proposed change.

WHAT TO DO

e-mail your comment to: davisda@tc.gc.ca <davisda@tc.gc.ca>

E-Mail heading: RE: Regulations Amending the Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations (Importation of Vehicles — Section 12); Canada Gazette, Vol. 141, No. 48 — December 1, 2007

Suggested Message:

Dear Minister:

As a Canadian taxpayer, and recent importer of a US purchased vehicle, I strongly support these proposed changes. I want to thank Transport Canada for a fair and thorough analysis of the situation, and the proposal of an excellent solution.

I remain concerned that manufacturers will continue to try to thwart the right of Canadians to 'vote with their wallets'. If manufacturers would adjust their Canadian prices to more closely align with US prices, there would be no need for Canadians to go south for their vehicle purchase.

It is unfortunate (and to me, unethical) that manufacturers are using the current immobilizer regulations to prevent the importation of many popular vehicles, at typical savings of ten to twenty thousand dollars. Transport Canada could not have anticipated this when the original regulations were drafted, and then brought into law. The proposed changes will correct this embarrassing situation.

I look forward to the registration of these regulations, and the return to fairer trade in vehicles.

Yours truly,

<Your name here>




rgc97 - Great point and great letter. I made a copy and sent it off two minutes ago. Thanks.

As GCCG commented in post #10261, I also think it's time to find the decision makers responsible for ripping us off so aggressively & for so long in plain view of our government regulatory bodies. We still have work to do. Hopefully the Competition Bureau won't be too occupied with red herrings -er, chocolatiers- to investigate the scandal that puts chocolate price fixing to shame in terms of scope and damage.

Congrats everyone! It sounds like we've got the attention of someone in charge. Thanks to MM too!

[bluemule999]

Right on! There is a difference between being fair, helping, and then enjoying the benefits....versus simple, outright self-promotion. The Subaru dealers on this form have done nothing to deserve any bad press. Keep doing what you are doing...Canadians and yourselves are mutually benefiting!!

Well there is a difference between self promotion or also trying to help out and participate in the discussion and contribute information. (I am not saying Xan is doing one or the other but just making a point).. Not to toot my own horn but I feel like I am pretty well versed in the process now since I do often have to help walk my customers through it. So I am here to self promote but also just to generally participate in the discussion and help out. Be aware that for dealers like Xan and I, we often spend 5 times as much time and energy on a canadian deal as a local one and in my case I make the same commission.. so give him a break... If you are selling cars to Canada you have to enjoy it at least a little bit since it is fairly time consuming. Not to mention there are a /lot/ more things that can go wrong. But it is fun to help out and nice to think that I am saving people $10,000+ and introducing new people to a brand I am love with (Subaru) that normally might not be able to afford the car they are buying...
I can't tell you how many canadians have come up to me when they are taking delivery of their new car and said, "Zach, thank you so much... Honestly if we couldn't get this pricing, we wouldn't be buying a (Tribeca, etc) as we simply couldn't afford it." ... So that is a pretty *cool* feeling and definitely rewarding. Anyway I'm rambling now but you get the point..give Xan a break.

[atorontoguy]

Has anyone imported a Porsche before? If so, can you PM me? Is there any conversion needed for a Cayenne to comply with the Canadian standard?

Anyway, I am interested in getting a 2008 Porsche Cayenne. Does US Porsche dealers sell to Canadians? If not, can I go through an American friend?

Do they charge for the recall letter like BMW?

Is warranty covered in Canada?

Thanks.

[Monsieurmaggot]

My niece just moved to New Jersey right across from NYC where she works now. My brother wants a BMW X5. If he purchases an X5 in New York State, can we use my nieces NJ address or does my niece have to purchase the vehicle?

I believe NJ and NY have reciprocal taxation agreements where NY can collect NJ taxes.

I'm 99% sure I read that at the NY DMV website.

If that's the case you're still paying taxes but can buy the X5 as a used vehicle.

[karl_at_vanbortel]

Well there is a difference between self promotion or also trying to help out and participate in the discussion and contribute information. (I am not saying Xan is doing one or the other but just making a point).. Not to toot my own horn but I feel like I am pretty well versed in the process now since I do often have to help walk my customers through it. So I am here to self promote but also just to generally participate in the discussion and help out. Be aware that for dealers like Xan and I, we often spend 5 times as much time and energy on a canadian deal as a local one and in my case I make the same commission.. so give him a break... If you are selling cars to Canada you have to enjoy it at least a little bit since it is fairly time consuming. Not to mention there are a /lot/ more things that can go wrong. But it is fun to help out and nice to think that I am saving people $10,000+ and introducing new people to a brand I am love with (Subaru) that normally might not be able to afford the car they are buying...
I can't tell you how many canadians have come up to me when they are taking delivery of their new car and said, "Zach, thank you so much... Honestly if we couldn't get this pricing, we wouldn't be buying a (Tribeca, etc) as we simply couldn't afford it." ... So that is a pretty *cool* feeling and definitely rewarding. Anyway I'm rambling now but you get the point..give Xan a break.

I couldn't have said it better myself. In any situation in life, all you can do is your best. I will never hesitate to say how thankful I am for EVERYONE that has CONTRIBUTED to this. The folks that poo poo others can be left out of that. I am still trying to find a way to have my GTG :)

[scouzi]

Right on! There is a difference between being fair, helping, and then enjoying the benefits....versus simple, outright self-promotion. The Subaru dealers on this form have done nothing to deserve any bad press. Keep doing what you are doing...Canadians and yourselves are mutually benefiting!!

I think if someone steps out of bounds, the moderators will decide. Not anyone of us.

[Monsieurmaggot]

I think that US car dealers listing their wares on this site is great. Here's why:

"Civilians" who are too lazy to do their own research can see who the real players are and get an idea on pricing.

They can also be used at a direct source for information on packages and trim levels. As someone said earlier in the post, it's no different than someone posting "insider" pricing you can get at a retailer by knowing the secret handshake.

While the Canadian manufacturers would flip, I think the US dealers should post "special pricing" on this site or at least links so people can actually see how much they're being hosed in Canada.

I think they are reluctant to post anything monetarily specific here since their Canadian compatriots would go whining to the head office in Japan (in the case of Subaru)

I bet if you ask nicely they would be please to share with you the current manufacturer-to-dealer incentives that are offered. Sometimes the dealers get free automatic transmission, moonroofs and accessories that are available to the consumer at little or no cost (it does happen). Remember unless they are in collusion, they wouldn't get caught up in violating the US Sherman act. <nudge nudge>

In my youth I had a source inside GM who was able to get me the current manufacturer-to-dealer incentives at that time and I found out that the car I eventually bought came with no charge air conditioning, automatic transmission, power window and locks from the factory. The first dealer I spoke to never mentioned that. Eventually I found one who did (and I bought from them).

I know if you ask the dealers posting here for a special $100 off RFD initiative, they'd be sure to pass one along.

Too bad it's only Subaru dealers posting on this thread. There should be others as well.

Then again, I personally bought a Subaru so the rest don't matter.

As far as BMW goes (using a thick British accent), anyone who thinks a 3 series vehicle deserves a "premium" moniker will believe anything. I love that BMW marketing person who said they are "reluctant to discount" their vehicles since it would dilute the perception of having a premium car.

Here's a question:

Who's the idiot? The person who pays full retail on a BMW in Canada or:
A saavy Canadian who buys a car in the US for half the amount?

I would be surprised to think it would be split 50/50. Some people actually believe the marketing. They're no better than the (dB) diamond cartel nut maybe that's just a case for successful marketing. The rules at BMW is, give the perception that by driving our car, you've made it. It seems to work since in the Toronto area, there are so many young punks driving them. They are almost a popular as the Civics.

[jnmontario]

Transport Canada is proposing an amendment to immobilizer regulations, which will allow US vehicles with an electronic immobilizer to come into Canada. This will clear things up for many people, and take away the ploy used by several manufacturers to prevent us from bringing in vehicles.

See: http://canadagazette.gc.ca/partI/2007/20071201/html/regle14-e.html

It's important, during the 15 day review period, to have as many RFDers as possible endorse this proposed change.

WHAT TO DO

e-mail your comment to: davisda@tc.gc.ca <davisda@tc.gc.ca>

E-Mail heading: RE: Regulations Amending the Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations (Importation of Vehicles — Section 12); Canada Gazette, Vol. 141, No. 48 — December 1, 2007

Suggested Message:

Dear Minister:

As a Canadian taxpayer, and recent importer of a US purchased vehicle, I strongly support these proposed changes. I want to thank Transport Canada for a fair and thorough analysis of the situation, and the proposal of an excellent solution.

I remain concerned that manufacturers will continue to try to thwart the right of Canadians to 'vote with their wallets'. If manufacturers would adjust their Canadian prices to more closely align with US prices, there would be no need for Canadians to go south for their vehicle purchase.

It is unfortunate (and to me, unethical) that manufacturers are using the current immobilizer regulations to prevent the importation of many popular vehicles, at typical savings of ten to twenty thousand dollars. Transport Canada could not have anticipated this when the original regulations were drafted, and then brought into law. The proposed changes will correct this embarrassing situation.

I look forward to the registration of these regulations, and the return to fairer trade in vehicles.

Yours truly,

<Your name here>


slight alteration to the letter if anybody wants to use it feel free. Thks again RGC97.

Dear Sir:

As a Canadian taxpayer, and a person about to 'inherit' a 2007 Prius from a relative in the US, I strongly support these proposed changes. I want to thank Transport Canada for a fair and thorough analysis of the situation, and the proposal of an excellent solution.

I remain concerned that manufacturers will continue to try to thwart the right of Canadians to 'vote with their wallets'. If manufacturers would adjust their Canadian prices to more closely align with US prices, there would be no need for Canadians to go south for their vehicle purchase. In fact, I would gladly pay a 4-5% gap in price of a vehicle if it meant that they money would stay here in Canada. However, I cannot justify pouring out an additional 35% after-tax-dollars for the same vehicle.

It is unfortunate (and to me, unethical) that manufacturers are using the current immobilizer regulations to prevent the importation of many popular vehicles, at typical savings of ten to twenty thousand dollars. Transport Canada could not have anticipated this when the original regulations were drafted, and then brought into law. The proposed changes will correct this embarrassing situation.

I look forward to the registration of these regulations, and the return to fairer trade in vehicles.


<sig here>

[03terminator]

Here is a Federal Trade commission compaint online form. If we all bombard them with examples of OEMs in the US that refuse to sell to Canadians maybe we can get the ball rolling on anticompetitive trade practices. Remember the dealers want to sell to us but the OEMs put pressure on them not to. I contacted a US lawyer regarding the restriction for sales to Canadians and they would not beleive me.

Here is the online form. 50000 complaints might do something

https://rn.ftc.gov/pls/dod/wsolcq$.startup?Z_ORG_CODE=PU01

[karl_at_vanbortel]

We have no plans to change our pricing policy. However, if Subaru says no more rebates or incentives for exported cars we HAVE to follow that. Now, there are two types of incentives. There is dealer cash, an incentive from the manufacturer to the dealer, and then there is customer cash, or rebate. We will have to wait and see. Dealer cash may still apply to Canadian sales. We'll have to wait and see.

[2ride4life]

Great thread - learned a lot. The latest policy change on immobilizers and admissibility for me has been a good and bad thing. Good in that now there is more choice, but bad because of choices, choices, choices .... :D

Don't mean to be the one to look at the dark-side of things, but since manufacturers don't publicly list what makes their vehicles inadmissible, what stops them from saying something else is "wrong" with the car that still makes it inadmissible. I guess I will have to wait for the next update on the RIV for confirmation. I wonder whether the RIV will drag their feet on the update because now it is no longer advantageous for the car manufacturers.

[GougingCarCartelGroup]

So, the tide went out and we see who is swimming naked, Since Transport Canada did the right thing for Canadians, we should focus on the OEMS discriminatory trade practices. US banks were giving mortgages to illegal aliens and a Canadians cannot buy a new car!


Illegal Mexicans have more rights in the USA than legal citizens there lol
I'd vote for Lou Dobbs over any Canadian or American Politian.

Too bad Canada has no Lou of our own.

[shopper-X]

Great thread - learned a lot. The latest policy change on immobilizers and admissibility for me has been a good and bad thing. Good in that now there is more choice, but bad because of choices, choices, choices .... :D

Don't mean to be the one to look at the dark-side of things, but since manufacturers don't publicly list what makes their vehicles inadmissible, what stops them from saying something else is "wrong" with the car that still makes it inadmissible. I guess I will have to wait for the next update on the RIV for confirmation. I wonder whether the RIV will drag their feet on the update because now it is no longer advantageous for the car manufacturers.

If the manufacture issued documents to Transport Canada saying everything is fine except the immobilizer issue then I'm pretty sure they can't retract it now.
If they come up with something new then it will show how anti-NAFTA these manufactures are and the government should fine them.

[Kamloops]

Man I hate RIV!

I send them this simple email :

I want to import a new 2008 Toyota Tacoma but it says inadmissible. See
explanations. From what I can tell is if its manufactured before Sept 1 2007 a 2008 will be admissible into Canada.
Is this correct?

And they replay with this, cant they just say yes or no?? Look at waht they say in red below. What am I to think?:

Thank for your recent inquiry about importing a SUV/MPV, Mini Van and
Truck from the United States into Canada.


To import a vehicle from the U.S. the vehicle must be cited as
admissible on Transport Canada's List of Vehicles Admissible from the
United States. Assuming this vehicle is listed as admissible, the
vehicle must also bear a Statement of Compliance label affixed by the
Original Equipment Manufacturer stating that "the vehicle as
manufactured to comply with all US federal emission, bumper and safety
standards on the date of manufacture". Failing that, we will accept a
letter from the manufacturer stating the same


The Transport Canada US Vehicle Admissibility List can be viewed at:
http://www.tc.gc.ca/roadsafety/importation/VAFUS/list/VAFUS.pdf OR
http://www.tc.gc.ca/roadsafety/importation/VAFUS/list/Menu.htm .


Please note that the admissibility list is subject to revise without
notification.


Admissibility References and Pages numbers


SUV/ MPV/ Mini Vans - Manufactured BEFORE September 1st 2007
-Section 5.3, Page 20



SUV/MPV/ Mini Vans- Manufactured AFTER September 1st 2007
-Section 5.4, Page 21 to 24



Trucks with a GVWR less then 4536kg or more than 4536 kg- Manufactured
BEFORE September 1 2007
-Section 2, Page 7



Trucks with a GVWR under 4536 kg, - Manufactured AFTER September 1 2007
-Section 12, Page 37 to 39



Please be advised that all the SUV's, Minivans and Trucks listed as
INADMISSIBLE on the List of Admissible Vehicles from the United Stats
cannot be processed by this office, regardless of the date of purchase
or entry.


These files have been placed on hold by Transport Canada and as a result
we are unable to access them at this time.


Please monitor Transport Canada's website at www.tc.gc.ca for any
changes in policy.


Please check our website at www.riv.ca for more information.


Under the Motor Vehicle Safety Act the responsibility for bringing an
imported vehicle into compliance with Canadian safety regulations lies
entirely with the importer; the RIV cannot be held responsible for any
reason should the importer fail to complete the process successfully.
Any information provided by the RIV is strictly based on the facts
presented by the importer and reliance upon such information is at the
importer's discretion.


The information contained in this email is intended to assist
individuals interested in importing a vehicle from the United States,
and contains information on the admissibility of various makes, models,
model years and class of vehicles provided by the original equipment
manufacturer. This information is contained on the List of Vehicles
Admissible Form the United States which is available to the public on
our web site at www.riv.ca or directly at:


http://www.riv.ca/english/US_vehicle_admissibility.pdf


The admissibility of any particular make, model and model year of
vehicle can only be ultimately determined by a) the presentation of the
vehicle to Canada Customs at the time of importation, b) the decoding of
the VIN contained on the vehicle import form - form 1 as presented to
Canada Customs, and c) the successful completion of the federal
inspection.

Thank you for your co-operation and patience at this time.
Registrar of Imported Vehicles.

[GougingCarCartelGroup]

That is so true ! I had one of these dumb people from work believing the same thing, because they pay more, they believe they made it and they own a "Luxury" 328 coupe. LOL I guess they are paying for "Exclusivity" not for any sort of value, if anything, the Mercedes C300 is more reasonable when it comes to features included and bang for the buck i think than a bmw 328. Although the Merc is still overpriced by at least 6K IMO.






As far as BMW goes (using a thick British accent), anyone who thinks a 3 series vehicle deserves a "premium" moniker will believe anything. I love that BMW marketing person who said they are "reluctant to discount" their vehicles since it would dilute the perception of having a premium car.

Here's a question:

Who's the idiot? The person who pays full retail on a BMW in Canada or:
A saavy Canadian who buys a car in the US for half the amount?

I would be surprised to think it would be split 50/50. Some people actually believe the marketing. They're no better than the (dB) diamond cartel nut maybe that's just a case for successful marketing. The rules at BMW is, give the perception that by driving our car, you've made it. It seems to work since in the Toronto area, there are so many young punks driving them. They are almost a popular as the Civics.

[mak]

We have no plans to change our pricing policy. However, if Subaru says no more rebates or incentives for exported cars we HAVE to follow that. Now, there are two types of incentives. There is dealer cash, an incentive from the manufacturer to the dealer, and then there is customer cash, or rebate. We will have to wait and see. Dealer cash may still apply to Canadian sales. We'll have to wait and see.


Hmmm is Karl implying/hinting that rebates come December 4th won't apply to Canadian car buyers? Maybe SoA sent out a missive to dealers that rebates (like Ford does) won't apply to Canadian buyers. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what's coming thru the pipe. But it would be rather unfortunate.

P.S. We should all become illegal aliens and then we wouldn't be discriminated against. ;)

[drwzer]

I think if someone steps out of bounds, the moderators will decide. Not anyone of us.

I agree. There are tons of people asking all the time where's a good place to buy a car and they respond to it. It would be different if this thread was about what your favorite car was but it's not, it's about buying/importing cars and how and where to do it. Should there be another thread for dealers? Maybe but it certainly isn't something being demanded by the majority of people here.

[TucDream]

Thanks to MM for starting the thread, all those who blazed the trail before me, LostHorizon, as well as Zach & Becca at Eastside Subaru.

The only real glitch I had to do with BC Provincial Inspection. It is required in BC for a new vehicle according to BC’s Ministry of Transportation. Post 5899 & several Ontario posts led me to believe it wasn’t required in BC. (I called the number on RIV’s “Important notice for British Columbia residents” link, and they confirmed BC provincial exam is required in addition to the Federal one.) So CT got another $110.79 out of me.

Here's a couple of shots of our new baby in the beginnings of our first snowfall of the year. 15cm predicted, yahoo!
http://picasaweb.google.ca/tucdream/2008NovTucSTribeca
(Edit: I guess I'm too much of an RFD rookie to get image posting rights. See our pix at http://picasaweb.google.ca/tucdream/2008NovTucSTribeca)

[karl_at_vanbortel]

Hmmm is Karl implying/hinting that rebates come December 4th won't apply to Canadian car buyers? Maybe SoA sent out a missive to dealers that rebates (like Ford does) won't apply to Canadian buyers. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what's coming thru the pipe. But it would be rather unfortunate.

P.S. We should all become illegal aliens and then we wouldn't be discriminated against. ;)

After a slew of phone calls and a letter to the current SOA president by Kitty, it looks like the change (IF it happens) will be as of the beginning of 2008.

[derslade]

The Globe is reporting

In an about-face yesterday, the Harper government offered an amnesty to 1,100 U.S.-purchased vehicles whose owners had been forced to ground them because they failed to meet new Canadian requirements for anti-theft features.

See http://www.reportonbusiness.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071130.r-autos01/BNStory/robNews/home

[SeeWhy2]

Hi all,
From today's Whig Standard (http://www.thewhig.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=801136&auth=Frank+Armstrong) paper for your reading (dis)pleasure.

[jasz]

Hello again,

So i have decided to get my car shipped from Florida to Buffalo.

Question is, how do I drive it from Buffalo to Toronto without a temp permit?

Something i noticed that NY DMV issues in transit permits. Has anyone used that to bring thier vehicle over? Please advise if this is doable.

Thanks again !

[derslade]

Hi all,
From today's Whig Standard (http://www.thewhig.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=801136&auth=Frank+Armstrong) paper for your reading (dis)pleasure.

Article now out of date. See my posting above about the government's about-face on this issue.

[michelb]

Hello again,

So i have decided to get my car shipped from Florida to Buffalo.

Question is, how do I drive it from Buffalo to Toronto without a temp permit?

Something i noticed that NY DMV issues in transit permits. Has anyone used that to bring thier vehicle over? Please advise if this is doable.

Thanks again !

Call NY DMV and ask them but I'm pretty sure that you cannot - I don't believe that you can get a temp / transit permit issued if you aren't buying the vehicle in that state and it wasn't registered there.

One better alternative (never actually tried it myself) could be to get all your paperwork to the border but leave the car in Florida unlicensed and unregistered. Then you export the vehicle and import it into Canada and once it's imported into Canada you can get a 14 day temp permit from Ontario. Once you have the 14 day temp permit, you go back to Florida to get the car. The only catch is that the vehicle won't be at the border when you want to export it - I'm not 100% sure if they'll let you do that - I don't see why they'd have a problem with it but it's possible they won't allow it.

Another easier solution is to buy the vehicle from a state that doesn't require you to pay tax when you are exporting (FL is one of the few that do)

Good luck

[SeeWhy2]

Article now out of date. See my posting above about the government's about-face on this issue.

Well the article is not out of date as it was only in todays paper. I know that the gov't has done a u-turn but wanted to post to show another example of what problems the immobilizer issue has caused.
FYI,

[derslade]

Well the article is not out of date as it was only in todays paper. I know that the gov't has done a u-turn but wanted to post to show another example of what problems the immobilizer issue has caused.
FYI,

And it's no longer a problem. Why confuse folks?

[SeeWhy2]

And it's no longer a problem. Why confuse folks?

Who's confused?

[mdbuffy]

I believe that the amendment appears to have be drafted with the help of or for the benefit of the auto manufacturers.

Para. (4.1) "that has been sold at the retail level in the United States and"
raises a few questions:
1. Do the words "retail level" prevent the purchase of a new or used vehicle from:
a. an individual in the United States
b. a wholesaler in the United States?
c. an wholesale auction in the United States? (e.g. dealer auctions like Manheim / Adessa or Great Lakes Auction)
d. a retail auction in the United States? (like Barrett-Jackson or the many other auctions where new and used vehicles are auctioned to individuals)
d.a franchised dealer of an auto company in the United States who is willing to sell for less than MSRP or on a wholesale basis

2. Does the amendment result in the manufacturer, notwithstanding anti-competition regulation in the United States (Sherman Anti-trust Act) being able to simply threaten or contractually obligate their dealers in the United States to not sell new cars to Canadians. If this is the case, any requirement for a sale "at retail" would not permit an individual from purchasing a new car from a U.S. dealer and this legislation is punitive.

If anyone has attemped to buy a vehicle in the U.S. and been turned down by the US dealer as a result of being a Canadian, plase e-mail mdbuffy778@yahoo.com.

3. Does "at the retail level" restrict a Canadian dealer who wants to import new or used vehicles from the US for sale to his customers. Most Canadians will not go to the U.S. to import a car as they have heard about your nightmare and many simply do not want to take the effort and would prefer the convenience of having a Canadian dealer do it for them. A large dealer in Winnipeg has been offering this service to his customers who want or have found used cars in the US...including non-GM cars. This is legislation for all Canadians so dealers should, if there is any benefit to importing new or used vehicles, be able to benefit from it and pass at least part of the benefit on to their customers.

The Propsed Amendment:
REGULATIONS AMENDING THE MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY REGULATIONS (IMPORTATION OF VEHICLES - SECTION 12)
AMENDMENT
1. Section 12 of the Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations (see footnote 11) is amended by adding the following after subsection (4):
(4.1) For the purposes of subsection 7(2) of the Act, a vehicle that has been sold at the retail level in the United States and that has not been certified by the manufacturer as conforming to subsection 114(4) of Schedule IV to these Regulations may be imported into Canada despite not being certified to conform to subsection 114(4) if
(a) the vehicle was fitted at the time of manufacture with an electronic immobilization system; or
(b) unless the manufacturer has indicated in writing that the vehicle cannot be fitted with an immobilization system, the person importing the
vehicle states in their declaration that the vehicle
(i) will be fitted with an immobilization system that conforms to National Standard of Canada CAN/ULC-S338-98, entitled Automobile Theft Deterrent Equipment and Systems: Electronic Immobilization (May 1998), published by the Underwriters' Laboratories of Canada, before it is presented for registration under the laws of a province, and
(ii) will be taken, within 45 days after its importation, to an inspection station authorized by the registrar of imported vehicles to carry out an inspection function to determine that the vehicle has been made to conform to the standard.

Manufacturers and Transport Canada will continue to exploit any possible avenue available to them. The only answer is complete harmonization. I was told by a MP who spoke to the Transport Minister that he was only
aware of immobilizer issue. He has a big portfolio and did not recognize that future political problems lay ahead for him if complete harmonization does not take place.

The efforts of Canadian car buyers are requied to ensure that the MVSS of Canada and the U.S. are totally harmonized.

These deal with the long history of exploitation of the Canadian car buyer by the manufacturers aided and abetted by Transport Canada.
http://www.carswithoutborders.com/get-involved/#comment-95
>> and
>> http://www.carswithoutborders.com/get-involved/#comment-144

Telling Transport Canada that the Amendment is a good piece of legislation is a mistake. Complete harmonization is required and the manufacturers have attemped to do this since 2002 but Transport Canada has its own ideas that it want to enforce regardles of the cost to Canadian taxpayers.

[EL820]

After a slew of phone calls and a letter to the current SOA president by Kitty, it looks like the change (IF it happens) will be as of the beginning of 2008.

So that means December incentives will still apply to Canadian buyers eh?

For those who's still sitting on the sideline will need to pull the trigger in December to ensure themselves of the Subaru rebates.

Thanks for the heads up Karl!!

[Danno2005]

Anyone know why?

See post 10124.

http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=307601&page=675

I guess the butthead's of the world posting here are finally happy???

[ozzzy]

I was at subaru dealer in saskatoon Sk and was talking about the Imprezas. He said Subaru will not warrentee cars from the US.
Is he just giving me the gears and is there something i can use as proof that there is some???
$28G-$29G US for a wrx is hard to not notice.

[netdog999]

I believe that the amendment appears to have be drafted with the help of or for the benefit of the auto manufacturers.


On the contrary IMHO. The terms "at the retail level" were required to make it clear that this amendment applies to consumers only and that manufacturers are still subject to meeting the original text of CMVSS 114. If this distinction was not made, then the OEMs would simply install US-compliant immobilizers on vehicles destined for the canadian market and render CMVSS114 pointless, not to mention the potential liability involved.

This amendment was clearly drafted to address the immediate problem that this new regulation has created with canadian consumers who cannot register their vehicles. Further evidence to that is that the 60-day consultation period that must normally lapse before amendments can be registered has even been reduced to 15 days for this amendment.

There are many who agree with you that much more needs to be done to correct the deceiptful and anti-trade practices that will continue well after this immobilizer amendment goes into effect and those battles will be fought in due time. The folks at carswithoutborders.com are committed to seeing this through well beyond fixing this immobilizer mess. But for now, this amendment to CMVSS114 is just about as good as it can get in order to deal with the immediate problem at hand and get these vehicles on the road. It goes beyond a simple amnesty to those who are caught up in this mess and opens up the border to anyone who would like to purchase one of these vehicles.

Send in your letters of support for this amendment as the OEMs are most certainly preparing their objections as we speak.

netdog

[dsds]

Hello. Did anyone get a chance to listen in on Roy Green this afternoon?

He was supposed to do an update from last weekends show with carswithoutborders.

[03terminator]

I agree with netdog. After reading the Canada Gazette, the OEM's historically had pushed for harmonization. They are opportunists and exploited the very rule that they had fought against.

[showMeAnImport]

I was at subaru dealer in saskatoon Sk and was talking about the Imprezas. He said Subaru will not warrentee cars from the US.
Is he just giving me the gears and is there something i can use as proof that there is some???
$28G-$29G US for a wrx is hard to not notice.

What a liar...you need to call him on that and get very direct with him...that is the first I have heard of this with Subaru....

From what I understand you still have a warranty with Subaru for 08s but you need to first pay for the repairs yourself and then submit receipts to Subaru USA for reimbursement...imported 07, however, I don't think you need to pay for first yourself when servicing under warranty....

There are like a million Subaru purchasers in here that could verify/correct what I am saying but I think you are okay...what a donkey...

Cheers

[karl_at_vanbortel]

I was at subaru dealer in saskatoon Sk and was talking about the Imprezas. He said Subaru will not warrentee cars from the US.
Is he just giving me the gears and is there something i can use as proof that there is some???
$28G-$29G US for a wrx is hard to not notice.

This is FALSE. Subaru of America is glad to provide you with a 3 year or 36,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty and a 5 year or 60,000 mile powertrain warranty. They also happily give you 3 years or 36,000 miles of roadside assistance. What Subaru of CANADA won't do is administer your claim for you if you have a 2008 or newer Subaru. This means that you will have to go to your local dealer and say "My car was purchased in the US and imported into Canada. I need to have a warranty repair completed on my car." The repair will be completed by your local authorized Subaru dealer. You will be charged WARRANTY RATE for the repair which is less than normal customer pay. Ask your service adviser for two copies of the repair order. You will submit one copy to Subaru of America and keep one for your records. Subaru of America will send you a check for the warranty portion of the repair (ie no oil changes, etc.) in US dollars. What does not require pre payment and reimbursement is the roadside assistance. That is covered immediately.

Part of the package that I give to our Canadian customers is a letter from SOA detailing this along with the address to mail your claim to. One thing that a lot of people are NOT aware of is that the Subaru extended warranty, Subaru Added Security, eliminates the need for this once the original 3/36 is done. AWESOME investment if you're planning on keeping the car for an extended period of time.

[ozzzy]

What a liar...you need to call him on that and get very direct with him...that is the first I have heard of this with Subaru....

From what I understand you still have a warranty with Subaru for 08s but you need to first pay for the repairs yourself and then submit receipts to Subaru USA for reimbursement...imported 07, however, I don't think you need to pay for first yourself when servicing under warranty....

There are like a million Subaru purchasers in here that could verify/correct what I am saying but I think you are okay...what a donkey...

Cheers

Thanx I will and do more searching.

[ozzzy]

This is FALSE. Subaru of America is glad to provide you with a 3 year or 36,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty and a 5 year or 60,000 mile powertrain warranty. They also happily give you 3 years or 36,000 miles of roadside assistance. What Subaru of CANADA won't do is administer your claim for you if you have a 2008 or newer Subaru. This means that you will have to go to your local dealer and say "My car was purchased in the US and imported into Canada. I need to have a warranty repair completed on my car." The repair will be completed by your local authorized Subaru dealer. You will be charged WARRANTY RATE for the repair which is less than normal customer pay. Ask your service adviser for two copies of the repair order. You will submit one copy to Subaru of America and keep one for your records. Subaru of America will send you a check for the warranty portion of the repair (ie no oil changes, etc.) in US dollars. What does not require pre payment and reimbursement is the roadside assistance. That is covered immediately.

Part of the package that I give to our Canadian customers is a letter from SOA detailing this along with the address to mail your claim to. One thing that a lot of people are NOT aware of is that the Subaru extended warranty, Subaru Added Security, eliminates the need for this once the original 3/36 is done. AWESOME investment if you're planning on keeping the car for an extended period of time.

Thanx If I may have to PM you ;)
One question, is the the 2008 built after set 01 2007 admissable?
I checked the Canadian RIV site and it states under INADMISSIBLE:
2007 AND 2008 Impreza built AFTER September 1st, 2007
2007 AND 2008 STI built AFTER September 1st, 2007.
Are these really inadmissable to Canada?

[DrXenon]

If anybody's emailing Transport Canada, you might consider lobbying for them to accept European Union vehicle standards in the same way that they do the American standards. There is no loss of safety, in fact the European Union mandates pedestrian safety standards (gap between the hood and the engine, for example) that we don't even have.

There are lots of great cars in the EU that we never see here because of this artificial barrier, which is in effect a price support for domestic manufacturers.

[baboo]

This is FALSE. Subaru of America is glad to provide you with a 3 year or 36,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty and a 5 year or 60,000 mile powertrain warranty. They also happily give you 3 years or 36,000 miles of roadside assistance. What Subaru of CANADA won't do is administer your claim for you if you have a 2008 or newer Subaru. This means that you will have to go to your local dealer and say "My car was purchased in the US and imported into Canada. I need to have a warranty repair completed on my car." The repair will be completed by your local authorized Subaru dealer. You will be charged WARRANTY RATE for the repair which is less than normal customer pay. Ask your service adviser for two copies of the repair order. You will submit one copy to Subaru of America and keep one for your records. Subaru of America will send you a check for the warranty portion of the repair (ie no oil changes, etc.) in US dollars. What does not require pre payment and reimbursement is the roadside assistance. That is covered immediately.

Part of the package that I give to our Canadian customers is a letter from SOA detailing this along with the address to mail your claim to. One thing that a lot of people are NOT aware of is that the Subaru extended warranty, Subaru Added Security, eliminates the need for this once the original 3/36 is done. AWESOME investment if you're planning on keeping the car for an extended period of time.

Hi Karl,

Can I purchase extended warranty from you even if I didn't purchase the vehicle from you?...:)

2008 Tribeca 7 seater ltd., still under 1500 miles.

[Xinc]

Since when did our media became tools of the auto industry? First we had the Stars, now this: http://www.northernlife.ca/News/Lifestyle/2007/11-23-07-carstop.asp?NLStory=11-23-07-carstop
My co-worker sent me this after much discussion about vehicle imports last week. All I see are LIES! LIES! n' more LIES! The guy even has the guts to mention the "O great Canadian rebates", and "O great financing options" then somehow came to to conclusion that Canadians are getting a better deal even though we are paying a heck a lot more money. Needless to say I am quite infuriated by our news sources' allowance for such bull crap, really makes you wonder what else have they been spinning? I know we live in a freedom of speech country, but that's built on the basis of reliable information and sound arguments, I saw neither in this article.

It's a good chuckle, though. In the end I guess anyone dumb enough to believe our media's (a lot of which are sponsored by the auto industry) take on imports deserves to be ripped off.

[karl_at_vanbortel]

You can purchase an extended warranty but we need to have the car at the dealership so that we can verify the odometer reading. While you're not looking you'll be getting VBS plate frames:cheesygri JUST KIDDING!

[Danno2005]

Since when did our media became tools of the auto industry? First we had the Stars, now this: http://www.northernlife.ca/News/Lifestyle/2007/11-23-07-carstop.asp?NLStory=11-23-07-carstop
My co-worker sent me this after much discussion about vehicle imports last week. All I see are LIES! LIES! n' more LIES! The guy even has the guts to mention the "O great Canadian rebates", and "O great financing options" then somehow came to to conclusion that Canadians are getting a better deal even though we are paying a heck a lot more money. Needless to say I am quite infuriated by our news sources' allowance for such bull crap, really makes you wonder what else have they been spinning? I know we live in a freedom of speech country, but that's built on the basis of reliable information and sound arguments, I saw neither in this article.

It's a good chuckle, though. In the end I guess anyone dumb enough to believe our media's (a lot of which are sponsored by the auto industry) take on imports deserves to be ripped off.

Thanks for the link. I left some choice thoughts on the article and links to this thread and www.ataleoftwoprices.com.
We'll see if they post my comments.

BTW - I bought my Ford at Belanger.

NEVER AGAIN!!!!!

[flatman]

Thanks for the link. I left some choice thoughts on the article and links to this thread and www.ataleoftwoprices.com.
We'll see if they post my comments.

BTW - I bought my Ford at Belanger.

NEVER AGAIN!!!!!



Wow, imagine that, a Canadian Ford dealer telling people not to buy in the U.S.. I didn't see that one coming:razz:

[karl_at_vanbortel]

I just had a thought. Sitting here looking for more pics of the new Forester while scanning this thread at the same time. Something popped into my mind that I was thinking about posting earlier but got sidetracked.

Canadian Subaru dealerships have been complaining about the loss of business for some time now, right? I was thinking what if I woke up one morning and the shoe was on the other foot? What if suddenly the phone stopped ringing? What if the e-mails stopped coming? What if the customers in the showroom were replaced by tumble weeds? What I mean is what if suddenly American customers could buy cars in Canada for ridiculous savings over the US market?

Would I be upset? I am sure I would be. However, here is where I really think that these Canadian dealers are missing the boat. We all are aware that they obviously will see an increase in service volume and revenue. I have heard so many of my customers say that when they went into the local dealership in Canada, the minute that importing was mentioned, they got the cold shoulder. WHY?!?!? Wouldn't they think to say, 'You know, you're right. You can save a ton of money buying your car in the US and bringing it back to Canada. Why don't you let me help you out? I can tell you what some of the advantages and disadvantages are.'

Develop a relationship with the customer. If I were the consumer and this happened, I would go back to that dealer with my wallet open every time I was in for service. From what I have heard this isn't the case. These customers are met with crossed rather than open arms along with comments like you're being "un-canadian" by buying a car in the US. What a crock.

Anyway, just my two cents. And, for the record, if I ever get out of line on here just let me know, ok??? ;)

[dotcalamitie]

Hery Karl you are right on. My dealers that deal with me no the situation well, and maintain good relationships with me. I buy new toys/cars every year. My Yamaha dealer is worried about losing me as a customer, even though he empathasizes with my decision to buy in the US. He will service me no problem. He says most people have to finance stuff, so they don't have it so easy to buy their RV's (sleds, PWCs, ATVs) in the US. BTW, last year my Yamaha sled dealer won an award for the most sled sales in Canada one month - this year, his sales are way, way down. My sleds are now going on their third and fourth season, I would have replaced them last year, but for the dollar. I would have replaced them this year too...but with a 40% markup over the US, forget it. I bought a Nikon point and shoot camera mail order for $240 US a few months ago. It was $330 at Future Shop, still is. It is now $200 US from Abe's of Maine where I bought mine.

[Dreyfus]

As suggested above it is a good idea to email your support for the proposed amendment to:
davisda@tc.gc.ca

Refer to- Canada Gazette Part 1 Dec. 1 2007
Department of Transport
Regulations amending MVSR Section 12

Short statement, I wrote "We heartily support the proposed amendment."

[03terminator]

I just had a thought. Sitting here looking for more pics of the new Forester while scanning this thread at the same time. Something popped into my mind that I was thinking about posting earlier but got sidetracked.

Canadian Subaru dealerships have been complaining about the loss of business for some time now, right? I was thinking what if I woke up one morning and the shoe was on the other foot? What if suddenly the phone stopped ringing? What if the e-mails stopped coming? What if the customers in the showroom were replaced by tumble weeds? What I mean is what if suddenly American customers could buy cars in Canada for ridiculous savings over the US market?

Would I be upset? I am sure I would be. However, here is where I really think that these Canadian dealers are missing the boat. We all are aware that they obviously will see an increase in service volume and revenue. I have heard so many of my customers say that when they went into the local dealership in Canada, the minute that importing was mentioned, they got the cold shoulder. WHY?!?!? Wouldn't they think to say, 'You know, you're right. You can save a ton of money buying your car in the US and bringing it back to Canada. Why don't you let me help you out? I can tell you what some of the advantages and disadvantages are.'

Develop a relationship with the customer. If I were the consumer and this happened, I would go back to that dealer with my wallet open every time I was in for service. From what I have heard this isn't the case. These customers are met with crossed rather than open arms along with comments like you're being "un-canadian" by buying a car in the US. What a crock.

Anyway, just my two cents. And, for the record, if I ever get out of line on here just let me know, ok??? ;)

I the 2000-2002 period the shoe was on the other foot. Americans were buying Canadian cars and importing them to the US like crazy. I bought a new Canadian Cobra 03 model car in 02 and the dealer required me to sign a form stating that I would not export the vehicle for 1 year. That car was $5000 cheaper in Canada than the US. I knew that document was unenforceable. So, attempts to control the market and price fixing goes on.

[ziploc]

I just had a thought. Sitting here looking for more pics of the new Forester while scanning this thread at the same time. Something popped into my mind that I was thinking about posting earlier but got sidetracked.

Canadian Subaru dealerships have been complaining about the loss of business for some time now, right? I was thinking what if I woke up one morning and the shoe was on the other foot? What if suddenly the phone stopped ringing? What if the e-mails stopped coming? What if the customers in the showroom were replaced by tumble weeds? What I mean is what if suddenly American customers could buy cars in Canada for ridiculous savings over the US market?

Would I be upset? I am sure I would be. However, here is where I really think that these Canadian dealers are missing the boat. We all are aware that they obviously will see an increase in service volume and revenue. I have heard so many of my customers say that when they went into the local dealership in Canada, the minute that importing was mentioned, they got the cold shoulder. WHY?!?!? Wouldn't they think to say, 'You know, you're right. You can save a ton of money buying your car in the US and bringing it back to Canada. Why don't you let me help you out? I can tell you what some of the advantages and disadvantages are.'

Develop a relationship with the customer. If I were the consumer and this happened, I would go back to that dealer with my wallet open every time I was in for service. From what I have heard this isn't the case. These customers are met with crossed rather than open arms along with comments like you're being "un-canadian" by buying a car in the US. What a crock.

Anyway, just my two cents. And, for the record, if I ever get out of line on here just let me know, ok??? ;)

they are idiots..(canadian dealers)....i personally was refused by 2 dealerships to service an imported car....

they think they are center of universe and are offend because i dare to buy from us dealer....

[Dreyfus]

IMO Subaru US and Canada have acquitted themselves well during the last year. The Subaru dealers and sales persons on both sides of the border have treated Canadians with respect.
Also in the hall fame I would put Volvo and Ford. In between I would put Toyota because they honoured warranties.

Shame on Chrysler, BMW, GM, Mercedes, Honda (can't be true can it?).

I would be interested in hearing all of your opinions on who should merit fame, in between, or shame.

Perhaps we could have a poll.

[03terminator]

IMO Subaru US and Canada have acquitted themselves well during the last year. The Subaru dealers and sales persons on both sides of the border have treated Canadians with respect.
Also in the hall fame I would put Volvo and Ford. In between I would put Toyota because they honoured warranties.

Shame on Chrysler, BMW, GM, Mercedes, Honda (can't be true can it?).

I would be interested in hearing all of your opinions on who should merit fame, in between, or shame.

Perhaps we could have a poll.

In my experience,
I would give Mazda a B-, all newer cars admissible, fast free recall letter, valid warranty. Downside, they don't let US dealers sell new to Canadians.

[bob the builder]

Do US and Canadian dealerships pay the same prices to obtain their stock? If they do, then Canadian dealerships have no right to be upset at importers.

[showMeAnImport]

Do US and Canadian dealerships pay the same prices to obtain their stock? If they do, then Canadian dealerships have no right to be upset at importers.

No, Canadian dealers get raped in comparison...and then they pass the raping onto us...good times...

Cheers

[showMeAnImport]

IMO Subaru US and Canada have acquitted themselves well during the last year. The Subaru dealers and sales persons on both sides of the border have treated Canadians with respect.
Also in the hall fame I would put Volvo and Ford. In between I would put Toyota because they honoured warranties.

Shame on Chrysler, BMW, GM, Mercedes, Honda (can't be true can it?).

I would be interested in hearing all of your opinions on who should merit fame, in between, or shame.

Perhaps we could have a poll.

BMW needs a good swift kick in the balls...that's all I know...

Cheers

[showMeAnImport]

they are idiots..(canadian dealers)....i personally was refused by 2 dealerships to service an imported car....

they think they are center of universe and are offend because i dare to buy from us dealer....

What manufacturer has refused to service your vehicle?

Cheers

[Lost Horizon]

Thanks to MM for starting the thread, all those who blazed the trail before me, LostHorizon, as well as Zach & Becca at Eastside Subaru.


Here's a couple of shots of our new baby in the beginnings of our first snowfall of the year. 15cm predicted, yahoo!

http://www.rceheli.com/main/Images/tucdream.jpg



Great vanity plate.. Lovely feeling, eh? (I hosted one of your pic's for you on my site.. link to it if you want)

Gotta love that AWD... I just got back from Vancouver, and fortunately left the BMW at home in favor of the Subaru, tg.. :D . What a great car in the wet snow and ice...

[blazerzr2]

I would also like to know why Xan was permanently banned? Though it is all up to the mods, can one of the mods explain what happened. Many RFD'ers owe $$$$$ of savings to him and they were all treated with respect. I just wanted to voice my opinion that (unless he crossed the line in some rude way), he didn't seem to do anything to warrant that!!

Just my two cents..:|

[Lost Horizon]

What manufacturer has refused to service your vehicle?

Cheers

Let me take a wild a$$ guess.... BMW?? :confused:

[Xinc]

Canadian Subaru dealerships have been complaining about the loss of business for some time now, right? I was thinking what if I woke up one morning and the shoe was on the other foot? What if suddenly the phone stopped ringing? What if the e-mails stopped coming? What if the customers in the showroom were replaced by tumble weeds? What I mean is what if suddenly American customers could buy cars in Canada for ridiculous savings over the US market?



I can definitely understand where you are coming from, but if Subaru Canada thinks by limiting the import from Subaru America they'll all be enjoying skyrocketing sales, they are kidding themselves.

Subaru Canada pits itself as competition with more luxurious brands, it's pricing is along the lines of intro Lexus/Infinity/European. But I seriously doubt many people who are considering a more luxurious vehicle will pick a Subaru instead of the aforementioned. Truth is, before this whole vehicle import fuzz became the hottest topic of discussion, I rarely saw any Subies on Toronto street. Even today they aren't very common and I can definitely count the number of Subies I encountered/day with one hand (with close to 70KM highway and 20KM local daily, btw did see an Outback and a Legacy with Van Botel plate frames this past month, looks brilliant:cheesygri)

If SOC somehow forced SOA into pushing new policies that limit/prohibit Canadian sales, people will just go to other options or hold out the purchase. But then I imagine SOA will be reluctant to give into SOC's pressure, they know they are "stealing" quite a lot of sales from the other Japanese big threes as well:lol:

[ziploc]

What manufacturer has refused to service your vehicle?

Cheers

KIA and Hyundai....but i prefer not to disclose the dealer names for now...

Kia when i was inquiring before deciding what to buy..

and Hyundai now when I bought my Hyundai minivan...

[ziploc]

Let me take a wild a$$ guess.... BMW?? :confused:

It's some stupid dealerships....
when i asked what will they do if i will bought a car in another part of the city and move near them and wanted to change the dealer...they were speechless...

As i said they were pissed because i decided to buy a car in US....bunch of losers....

I think because i live in a area that boomed since few years...theirs business did increase respectively, and they think they can live without an US car client....

[Whiterock2]

they are idiots..(canadian dealers)....i personally was refused by 2 dealerships to service an imported car....

they think they are center of universe and are offend because i dare to buy from us dealer....

I CAN'T understand their behavior. I've always been under the impression that for most dealerships selling the cars is low margin but servicing them is where they make their profits :confused: .

They're obviously letting pettiness get in the way of good business.

[showMeAnImport]

I CAN'T understand their behavior. I've always been under the impression that for most dealerships selling the cars is low margin but servicing them is where they make their profits :confused: .

They're obviously letting pettiness get in the way of good business.

I know, I am thinking the same thing. But if you think about it, it's just another tool they are using to try and discourage people. It is not going to work.

Cheers

[showMeAnImport]

KIA and Hyundai....but i prefer not to disclose the dealer names for now...

Kia when i was inquiring before deciding what to buy..

and Hyundai now when I bought my Hyundai minivan...

Did you check with head office? They may compel them. I would be surprised if they weren't obligated. If this is coming from head office then what a short sited organization.

Cheers

[showMeAnImport]

I can definitely understand where you are coming from, but if Subaru Canada thinks by limiting the import from Subaru America they'll all be enjoying skyrocketing sales, they are kidding themselves.

Subaru Canada pits itself as competition with more luxurious brands, it's pricing is along the lines of intro Lexus/Infinity/European. But I seriously doubt many people who are considering a more luxurious vehicle will pick a Subaru instead of the aforementioned. Truth is, before this whole vehicle import fuzz became the hottest topic of discussion, I rarely saw any Subies on Toronto street. Even today they aren't very common and I can definitely count the number of Subies I encountered/day with one hand (with close to 70KM highway and 20KM local daily, btw did see an Outback and a Legacy with Van Botel plate frames this past month, looks brilliant:cheesygri)

If SOC somehow forced SOA into pushing new policies that limit/prohibit Canadian sales, people will just go to other options or hold out the purchase. But then I imagine SOA will be reluctant to give into SOC's pressure, they know they are "stealing" quite a lot of sales from the other Japanese big threes as well:lol:

Bottom line, someone is always greedy. In this case it is always the manufacturers themselves, not their representing dealerships...Of course the dealerships are going to be as greedy as they possibly can but the scale is immensely different.

Point is, Subaru or any of these other manufacturers could give a crap about their dealers. Seriously. They clearly don't because if they did they would do something to help the Canadian dealers. In the case of Subaru I think what you are saying is exactly true --> The brass at the top of Subaru are looking at this as an opportunity to increase its North American market share...and they are more than willing to do it on the backs of their Canadian dealers. Business is business. They don't care about the Canadian consumer or their dealers any more than the other manufacturers.

In the case of a lot of the other manufacturers they simply aren't willing to give up their padded profits in Canada. Yeah, good luck with that long term. The Canadian consumer is starting to watch you more closely and your business practices are starting to get scrutinized. You can lobby governments all you want but the only lobbying you can do with your ultimate customer is price.

Cheers

[karl_at_vanbortel]

One thing that I've only recently become aware of is that the new President of SOA also happens to be the General Manager for North American Sales or Operations. I can't remember which. I agree, a poll of manufacturers and their overall grades would be interesting to see!

[showMeAnImport]

One thing that I've only recently become aware of is that the new President of SOA also happens to be the General Manager for North American Sales or Operations. I can't remember which. I agree, a poll of manufacturers and their overall grades would be interesting to see!

Karl

With the Tribecas can a dealer simply reprogram something so that temperature displays are in Celcious etc.? Or is there more to it than that? What are the issues with going metric...would like to avoid a cluster change. Don't mind having mph larger than Km/h but it would be nice to have everything else converted...

Cheers

[Animeka]

I just had a thought. Sitting here looking for more pics of the new Forester while scanning this thread at the same time. Something popped into my mind that I was thinking about posting earlier but got sidetracked.

Canadian Subaru dealerships have been complaining about the loss of business for some time now, right? I was thinking what if I woke up one morning and the shoe was on the other foot? What if suddenly the phone stopped ringing? What if the e-mails stopped coming? What if the customers in the showroom were replaced by tumble weeds? What I mean is what if suddenly American customers could buy cars in Canada for ridiculous savings over the US market?

Would I be upset? I am sure I would be. However, here is where I really think that these Canadian dealers are missing the boat. We all are aware that they obviously will see an increase in service volume and revenue. I have heard so many of my customers say that when they went into the local dealership in Canada, the minute that importing was mentioned, they got the cold shoulder. WHY?!?!? Wouldn't they think to say, 'You know, you're right. You can save a ton of money buying your car in the US and bringing it back to Canada. Why don't you let me help you out? I can tell you what some of the advantages and disadvantages are.'

Develop a relationship with the customer. If I were the consumer and this happened, I would go back to that dealer with my wallet open every time I was in for service. From what I have heard this isn't the case. These customers are met with crossed rather than open arms along with comments like you're being "un-canadian" by buying a car in the US. What a crock.

Anyway, just my two cents. And, for the record, if I ever get out of line on here just let me know, ok??? ;)

Salespeople are paid on commission, not for revenue from the service dept. So if you're not buying from them, they don't care about you, you're affecting their wallet directly...

A.

[scouzi]

It's some stupid dealerships....
when i asked what will they do if i will bought a car in another part of the city and move near them and wanted to change the dealer...they were speechless...

As i said they were pissed because i decided to buy a car in US....bunch of losers....

I think because i live in a area that boomed since few years...theirs business did increase respectively, and they think they can live without an US car client....


My Subaru Canada delership treats me like a customer. Gives me a free hand wash coupon with every oil change.

They affix the next service sticker on windshield in miles. I like the new Imprezza hatchback. I might buy it in Canada.

However, I haven't had any warranty work to be done yet.

[ziploc]

Did you check with head office? They may compel them. I would be surprised if they weren't obligated. If this is coming from head office then what a short sited organization.

Cheers

Actually i spoke with a Hyundai regional rep who was in the dealership at the time that i passed....what a prick......he was telling me that even US warranty wasn't good......and had such attitude.......
when i told him that he was wrong and ask for his name, he did change his attitude......


As for both head offices (KIA and Hyundai) they told me that they can't bind a dealer to work on any car as dealerships are entities by them selfs (franchises) and they can do whatever they want....


If You ask me I would more than glad to serve a new client, from whatever and with any car he comes....

[ziploc]

My Subaru Canada delership treats me like a customer. Gives me a free hand wash coupon with every oil change.

They affix the next service sticker on windshield in miles. I like the new Imprezza hatchback. I might buy it in Canada.

However, I haven't had any warranty work to be done yet.

don't worry i will find a dealer that will be more than happy to serve me also.


and exactly by doing that they might gain a new customer for life...

[scouzi]

Bottom line, someone is always greedy. In this case it is always the manufacturers themselves, not their representing dealerships...Of course the dealerships are going to be as greedy as they possibly can but the scale is immensely different.

Point is, Subaru or any of these other manufacturers could give a crap about their dealers. Seriously. They clearly don't because if they did they would do something to help the Canadian dealers. In the case of Subaru I think what you are saying is exactly true --> The brass at the top of Subaru are looking at this as an opportunity to increase its North American market share...and they are more than willing to do it on the backs of their Canadian dealers. Business is business. They don't care about the Canadian consumer or their dealers any more than the other manufacturers.

In the case of a lot of the other manufacturers they simply aren't willing to give up their padded profits in Canada. Yeah, good luck with that long term. The Canadian consumer is starting to watch you more closely and your business practices are starting to get scrutinized. You can lobby governments all you want but the only lobbying you can do with your ultimate customer is price.

Cheers

Dealerships is an integral part of the car business and they need them badly. If dealerships start closing , you will be left with less and less options to get your imported car fixed.

In the 60s, dealerships would get volume discounts on cars. This killed the smaller suburban dealerships. When people went to buy their cars downtown for cheaper, they were left with no option than to go downtown for service. That is why today, all dealerships from most car makers pay exactly the same price for their cars regardless of the volume.

Lowering prices in Canada probably won't make much of a dent overall for North America but it is the solution if they want to support Canadian dealerships.

[scouzi]

Since when did our media became tools of the auto industry? First we had the Stars, now this: http://www.northernlife.ca/News/Lifestyle/2007/11-23-07-carstop.asp?NLStory=11-23-07-carstop
My co-worker sent me this after much discussion about vehicle imports last week. All I see are LIES! LIES! n' more LIES! The guy even has the guts to mention the "O great Canadian rebates", and "O great financing options" then somehow came to to conclusion that Canadians are getting a better deal even though we are paying a heck a lot more money. Needless to say I am quite infuriated by our news sources' allowance for such bull crap, really makes you wonder what else have they been spinning? I know we live in a freedom of speech country, but that's built on the basis of reliable information and sound arguments, I saw neither in this article.

It's a good chuckle, though. In the end I guess anyone dumb enough to believe our media's (a lot of which are sponsored by the auto industry) take on imports deserves to be ripped off.


"Features such as block heaters and heated seats that you take for granted up here are not available down there.”

Again, the Canadian winter thing. No winters or no snow in the US.

Ironically, he finishes with this:

His biggest piece of advice for all Canadians is to ignore the stories and to do their own research.

Should have been:

His biggest piece of advice for all Canadians is to ignore the stories like this one and to do their own research.

[showMeAnImport]

Actually i spoke with a Hyundai regional rep who was in the dealership at the time that i passed....what a prick......he was telling me that even US warranty wasn't good......and had such attitude.......
when i told him that he was wrong and ask for his name, he did change his attitude......


As for both head offices (KIA and Hyundai) they told me that they can't bind a dealer to work on any car as dealerships are entities by them selfs (franchises) and they can do whatever they want....


If You ask me I would more than glad to serve a new client, from whatever and with any car he comes....

That is bizarre...usually if they are an authorized dealer they are obligated...this is how it works for Toyota for example...if they want to have a licence to sell Toyota cars they have to be willing to honour warranties...

I guess this is the key here...Toyota transfers warranty...Hyundai does not...

Cheers

[lightbulb]

A few weeks ago I brought my LGT (bought from Karl) for its 1st oil change and winter wheels swap to DT Subaru. I wasn't sure what kind of reception I would receive but it turned out to be very cordial. I volunteered it was my 1st time there and I had bought the car in the US, whereupon the service advisor mentioned they were seeing a lot of them lately. We had a brief chat about the warranty claim procedure and the wheels I was installing. The experience was problem free and very business like, absolutely no cold shoulder or hostility. After going through the future routine maintenance schedule with me, I thought "Wow, these guys are smart, although they didn't make the sale, they're working at getting my service dollars".

It gets better. Last week my car had a weird problem where the car thought the driver's door was open and would flash the warning in the dash, turn on the dome light, etc. while driving. I took the car back to DT Subaru, they already had a fully booked up day but were willing to have a go at it if I could leave it with them. Around 4 PM I get a call my car's ready, problem fixed. It was a "minor adjustment"; NO CHARGE, free, on the house. The service advisor said it was fairly minor and not enough to warrant me paying and having to file a claim with SoA.

With that experience, they will certainly see me and my service $$ again. Excellent business smarts, turning a negative (lost sale) into an future revenue stream.


This is FALSE. Subaru of America is glad to provide you with a 3 year or 36,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty and a 5 year or 60,000 mile powertrain warranty. They also happily give you 3 years or 36,000 miles of roadside assistance. What Subaru of CANADA won't do is administer your claim for you if you have a 2008 or newer Subaru. This means that you will have to go to your local dealer and say "My car was purchased in the US and imported into Canada. I need to have a warranty repair completed on my car." The repair will be completed by your local authorized Subaru dealer. You will be charged WARRANTY RATE for the repair which is less than normal customer pay. Ask your service adviser for two copies of the repair order. You will submit one copy to Subaru of America and keep one for your records. Subaru of America will send you a check for the warranty portion of the repair (ie no oil changes, etc.) in US dollars. What does not require pre payment and reimbursement is the roadside assistance. That is covered immediately.

Part of the package that I give to our Canadian customers is a letter from SOA detailing this along with the address to mail your claim to. One thing that a lot of people are NOT aware of is that the Subaru extended warranty, Subaru Added Security, eliminates the need for this once the original 3/36 is done. AWESOME investment if you're planning on keeping the car for an extended period of time.

[ziploc]

That is bizarre...usually if they are an authorized dealer they are obligated...this is how it works for Toyota for example...if they want to have a licence to sell Toyota cars they have to be willing to honour warranties...

I guess this is the key here...Toyota transfers warranty...Hyundai does not...

Cheers

They were transferring the warranty till 22nd November when they just decided to change their policy......I was told by head office, numerous dealerships that they were......and i bought the car before that date....and when I called after that date, to register with them they told me that the warranty is no more honoured....

apparent they are waiting for a bulletin to come out on that issue....and they don't care if the car was bought before or not....

I wrote a letter to them and waiting for an answer....

[ziploc]

A few weeks ago I brought my LGT (bought from Karl) for its 1st oil change and winter wheels swap to DT Subaru. I wasn't sure what kind of reception I would receive but it turned out to be very cordial. I volunteered it was my 1st time there and I had bought the car in the US, whereupon the service advisor mentioned they were seeing a lot of them lately. We had a brief chat about the warranty claim procedure and the wheels I was installing. The experience was problem free and very business like, absolutely no cold shoulder or hostility. After going through the future routine maintenance schedule with me, I thought "Wow, these guys are smart, although they didn't make the sale, they're working at getting my service dollars".

It gets better. Last week my car had a weird problem where the car thought the driver's door was open and would flash the warning in the dash, turn on the dome light, etc. while driving. I took the car back to DT Subaru, they already had a fully booked up day but were willing to have a go at it if I could leave it with them. Around 4 PM I get a call my car's ready, problem fixed. It was a "minor adjustment"; NO CHARGE, free, on the house. The service advisor said it was fairly minor and not enough to warrant me paying and having to file a claim with SoA.

With that experience, they will certainly see me and my service $$ again.
That's how the business should be done...


I think the problem here is the Quebecers mentality....there aren't looking into the future and acting on what they believe in their heads.....
they think that I ''attacked'' them personally by buying from another country, and they think that acting like that the will just prevent more people from importing cars....


that's why Montreal were overtake by Toronto and Quebec by Ontario...
they are selfish and close minded....


I know if I will go and see the owner, it might change...but what kind of relation i will then have with the service guys....i prefer change the dealer and think that they just don't deserve my money....

[Chubien]

That's how the business should be done...


I think the problem here is the Quebecers mentality....there aren't looking into the future and acting on what they believe in their heads.....
they think that I ''attacked'' them personally by buying from another country, and they think that acting like that the will just prevent more people from importing cars....


that's why Montreal were overtake by Toronto and Quebec by Ontario...
they are selfish and close minded....


I know if I will go and see the owner, it might change...but what kind of relation i will then have with the service guys....i prefer change the dealer and think that they just don't deserve my money....


Ziploc, ... this has to be the most narrow minded dumb statement I have read in the 600+ pages !! :rolleyes:

[GougingCarCartelGroup]

I don't know about you guys, but i have such a bad taste from talking to the Car manufacturers in this country that i am willing to drive my car into the ground before i purchase another.

And when i do purchase a car, it will be from the States, even if i only save 5K on it, i will not do any business in Canada, this country needs to wake up, we need to act, not talk about things, enough is enough already, a united front against greedy bastard car manufacturers is needed.

In fact my whole goal in life will be to spread the truth about these dirty rats, to anyone within earshot.

[ajpaterson]

A few weeks ago I brought my LGT (bought from Karl) for its 1st oil change and winter wheels swap to DT Subaru. I wasn't sure what kind of reception I would receive but it turned out to be very cordial. I volunteered it was my 1st time there and I had bought the car in the US, whereupon the service advisor mentioned they were seeing a lot of them lately. We had a brief chat about the warranty claim procedure and the wheels I was installing. The experience was problem free and very business like, absolutely no cold shoulder or hostility. After going through the future routine maintenance schedule with me, I thought "Wow, these guys are smart, although they didn't make the sale, they're working at getting my service dollars".

It gets better. Last week my car had a weird problem where the car thought the driver's door was open and would flash the warning in the dash, turn on the dome light, etc. while driving. I took the car back to DT Subaru, they already had a fully booked up day but were willing to have a go at it if I could leave it with them. Around 4 PM I get a call my car's ready, problem fixed. It was a "minor adjustment"; NO CHARGE, free, on the house. The service advisor said it was fairly minor and not enough to warrant me paying and having to file a claim with SoA.

With that experience, they will certainly see me and my service $$ again. Excellent business smarts, turning a negative (lost sale) into an future revenue stream.

The truth is that a dealership will see $5 or more in service profit for every $1 they might have made in sale profit. They want you to become a regular service customer even if they don't get the initial sale. Too bad BMW isn't seeing it this way and are taking it out on their informed customers rather than accepting that 5/6 profit is better than 0 profit to keep their 'high end' customers happy.

Dealerships should be taking the message up the chain to the manufacturers rather than guilt-tripping and getting pissed at the informed consumer that wants a fair deal. The truth is, I don't think they're used to Canadian consumers fighting back.

One of the main excuses manufacturers have used for current pricing is that they price for the market, in other words "what the market will bear". I think it's obvious that the market is speaking now, and it's not willing to bear this any longer.

[ziploc]

Ziploc, ... this has to be the most narrow minded dumb statement I have read in the 600+ pages !! :rolleyes:

here U are....thanks for giving me reason....

and study a history a bid and You might understand....

and sorry if You felt pointed, but sometimes the truth hurts....

[ziploc]

I don't know about you guys, but i have such a bad taste from talking to the Car manufacturers in this country that i am willing to drive my car into the ground before i purchase another.

And when i do purchase a car, it will be from the States, even if i only save 5K on it, i will not do any business in Canada, this country needs to wake up, we need to act, not talk about things, enough is enough already, a united front against greedy bastard car manufacturers is needed.

In fact my whole goal in life will be to spread the truth about these dirty rats, to anyone within earshot.

I'm starting to feeling the same way....


and the problem is The canadian car companies are playing pure capitalism game......
but when the customers stars to play the same game and getting cheaper out of the country cars...they don't like that and dissaprove it with force....
what applies to them can't apply to the others....

[scouzi]

That's how the business should be done...


I think the problem here is the Quebecers mentality....there aren't looking into the future and acting on what they believe in their heads.....
they think that I ''attacked'' them personally by buying from another country, and they think that acting like that the will just prevent more people from importing cars....


that's why Montreal were overtake by Toronto and Quebec by Ontario...
they are selfish and close minded....


I know if I will go and see the owner, it might change...but what kind of relation i will then have with the service guys....i prefer change the dealer and think that they just don't deserve my money....

I'm getting good service form a Quebec Subaru dealer.

[Chubien]

here U are....thanks for giving me reason....

and study a history a bid and You might understand....

and sorry if You felt pointed, but sometimes the truth hurts....

Ziploc,

Kind off ironic someone with "Ziploc" for a Nickname spills some much shite in a forum.

that's why Montreal were overtake by Toronto and Quebec by Ontario...
they are selfish and close minded....

What part of history are you refering to exactly ???? :lol:

The dealer issues that some of us are experiencing are nation wide and not regional, there are good dealers and there are not so good dealers . Up to you to find a good one. Not sure what your background is and why your frustrations with Quebec but I suspect it has nothing to do with buying a car in the US !

[Chubien]

I'm getting good service form a Quebec Subaru dealer.

Scouzi, Who to you go to for service ?

[Monsieurmaggot]

I just got the funniest email from a friend of mine who thought I would get a kick out of something he heard. At a party there was some discussion about cross-border car sales and my friend mentioned that I had purchased a Subaru in the US. Someone who he thinks works in a Toronto-area car dealership let the group in on a "major story that's about to break".

The reason why Subaru permits cross-border sales is -- wait! here it comes--: Is that Subaru can't get enough market share in North America and is about to file for bankruptcy and shut down the NA Operations. They are attempting to sell the remaining stock before the announcement comes down in the new year.

If true, "anyone who buys a Subaru in the US will be left with a vehicle that can't get serviced!"

I guess the guy was too stupid to figure out that Canada is part of North America and that would also imply that the Canadian operations would also be shutting down.

I'm just pissing myself it's too funny.

What's scary is that someone probably will believe that story.

Man the Canadian marketers are resorting to all kinds of tactics.

If true, I will have a collector car that will be highly-prized by the automotive connoisseur. I think I will tack on an extra $5k when I eventually sell my car and claim that it's "RARE".

[Monsieurmaggot]

I see West Herr has set up a link for Canadian customers (just like cars101.com).

Can it get any easier to buy in the US?:

http://westherr.com/How_to_Import_Or_Export_Cars_To_Canada_From_USA.cf m

Unless I'm reading it wrong, it looks like they're selling more than just Subaru to Canadians now. They have over 600 Fords, Nissans and Subarus are listed as "available to Canadians" on the site.

Be curious to see how long that stay up before some Canadian dealership whines. I think West Herr is big enough (22 brands) that I hope they might just tell them to take a hike...

Here's the list of current rebates on the Subarus:

Outbacks:

$1,500 Customer Cash on 08 OUTBACK Outback models
$1,500 Customer Cash on 08 OUTBACK 2.5i models
$1,250 Customer Cash on 08 OUTBACK 2.5i Limited models
$1,250 Customer Cash on 08 OUTBACK 2.5i L.L.Bean Edition models
$1,250 Customer Cash on 08 OUTBACK 2.5i Limited L.L.Bean Edition models
$750 Customer Cash on 08 OUTBACK 2.5 XT Limited models
$750 Customer Cash on 08 OUTBACK 3.0 R L.L.Bean models

$1,500 Customer Cash on NEW 07 OUTBACK 2.5i Wagon models (non-limited models)
$1,500 Customer Cash on NEW 07 OUTBACK 2.5i Limited Wagon models
$1,000 Customer Cash on NEW 07 OUTBACK 2.5i Limited Sedan models
$1,500 Customer Cash on NEW 07 OUTBACK 2.5i L.L.Bean models
$1,500 Customer Cash on NEW 07 OUTBACK 2.5 XT Limited Wagon models
$1,000 Customer Cash on NEW 07 OUTBACK 3.0 R L.L.Bean Sedan models
$1,500 Customer Cash on NEW 07 OUTBACK 3.0 R L.L.Bean Wagon models

Tribeca:

No rebates on the 2008s (yet!)
$3,500 Customer Cash on NEW 07 TRIBECA 7-Passenger models
$3,500 Customer Cash on NEW 07 TRIBECA 5-Passenger models

Legacy:

$1,000 Customer Cash on 08 LEGACY 2.5i models
$1,000 Customer Cash on 08 LEGACY 2.5i Special Edition models
$1,000 Customer Cash on 08 LEGACY 2.5i Limited models
$750 Customer Cash on 08 LEGACY 2.5 GT Limited models
$0 Customer Cash on 08 LEGACY 2.5 GT spec.B model
$750 Customer Cash on 08 LEGACY 3.0 R Limited models

$1,000 Customer Cash on NEW 07 LEGACY 2.5i models
$1,000 Customer Cash on NEW 07 LEGACY 2.5 GT Limited models
$1,000 Customer Cash on NEW 07 LEGACY 2.5 GT spec.B models

Forester:

$1,500 Customer Cash on 08 FORESTER 2.5 X models
$500 Customer Cash on 08 FORESTER Sports 2.5 X models
$500 Customer Cash on 08 FORESTER 2.5 X Premium models
$500 Customer Cash on 08 FORESTER 2.5 X L.L.Bean models
$500 Customer Cash on 08 FORESTER Sports 2.5 XT models
$500 Customer Cash on 08 FORESTER 2.5 XT Limited models

$2,000 Customer Cash on NEW 07 FORESTER 2.5 X models
$2,000 Customer Cash on NEW 07 FORESTER 2.5 X Premium models
$2,000 Customer Cash on NEW 07 FORESTER Sports 2.5 X models
$2,000 Customer Cash on NEW 07 FORESTER 2.5 X L.L.Bean models
$2,000 Customer Cash on NEW 07 FORESTER Sports 2.5 XT models
$2,000 Customer Cash on NEW 07 FORESTER 2.5 XT Limited models

Impreza:

No rebates on the 2008s (yet!)

$1,000 Customer Cash on NEW 07 IMPREZA 2.5i Sedan and Wagon models
$750 Customer Cash on NEW 07 IMPREZA WRX Sedan and Wagon models
$0 Customer Cash on NEW 07 IMPREZA WRX STI models

Tack on another $1000 or so in holdbacks and manufacturer to dealer incentives and a $100 internet purchase discount, you won't find a better deal anywhere close to this in Canada. Remember the US pricing is always based on the INVOICE price not the Canadian insistence on MSRP pricing. The PDI is also $800 cheaper.

[GoogleFish]

I see West Herr has set up a link for Canadian customers (just like cars101.com).

Can it get any easier to buy in the US?:

http://westherr.com/How_to_Import_Or_Export_Cars_To_Canada_From_USA.cf m

Unless I'm reading it wrong, it looks like they're selling more than just Subaru to Canadians now. They have over 600 Fords, Nissans and Subarus are listed as "available to Canadians" on the site.

Be curious to see how long that stay up before some Canadian dealership whines. I think West Herr is big enough (22 brands) that I hope they might just tell them to take a hike...



Unfortunately it looks like used vehicles only:

"We have over 800 used cars that qualify for export* [See listing of USED vehicles that maybe exportable to Canada]"

[Danno2005]

The link below that says NEW cars.

"We have over 800 used cars that qualify for export* [See listing of USED vehicles that maybe exportable to Canada]
The largest assortment of new cars that qualify for export anywhere in NY* [See listing of NEW vehicles that maybe exportable to Canada]"

[Monsieurmaggot]

Unfortunately it looks like used vehicles only:

"We have over 800 used cars that qualify for export* [See listing of USED vehicles that maybe exportable to Canada]"

Then on the following line it says "see listing for new cars exportable to Canada".

That's where the 600+ (NEW Subaru, Nissans and Fords) are listed. Gotta read the whole paragraph or you get it out of context.

From the West Herr site:

# New vehicles

* Most new vehicle manufacturers prevent the export of their respective models to Canada in their franchise rules. However there are a few exceptions
o Subaru (some model restrictions) Click here to see Subaru's available for export to Canada
o Nissan (some model restrictions and the loss of the manufacturer's warranty) Click here to see Nissan's available for export to Canada
o Ford (some model restrictions) Click here to see Ford's available for export to Canada
o Lincoln (some model restrictions) Click here to see Lincolns available for export to Canada
o Mercury (some model restrictions) Click here to see Mercury's available for export to Canada

[underpants]

In today's (Dec. 2nd, 2007) Burlington (Ontario) Post there is an article titled "Car Bargains Rare in the US" by Roy Green. If I can find an electronic copy I will post.

At first I though it was an advertorial. I can't find "advertorial" printed anywhere near the article.

Here's a list of the main points of the article:

-current Canadian incentives negate most of the US savings
-many manufacturers won't honour warranty and roadside assistance plans-have to drive back to US to get work done
-can't finance in US
-miles only speedo-have to get a new speedometer
-don't have same standards for emissions or safety (bumpers)
-no French instructions for airbag -$$ for refit
-duty and taxes -you have to pay US taxes +14 percent PST and GST @ border -6.1 percent duty on cars manufactured outside NA
-must ensure daytime running lights ". . which aren't available on U.S.-made vehicles."
-cannot trade vehicle in to the US therefore you miss out on 14 percent tax savings
-US cars are only worth 60 percent of the Canadian value


Here are two of my favourite quotes in the article:

"Even before those programs were introduced (current Canadian rebate programs), automotive consultant Dennis DeRosier downplayed the cross-border price differences, saying it amounted to only about $1000 across two-thirds of the market."

and

"When (customers) do their research, they'll see more easily that the deals out there are pretty similar between the U.S. and Canada and also better than they were in October. It becomes more of an incentive to get out there in the market." Stuart Schorr, Senior Communication Manager, Chrysler Canada.

Shame on your Roy Green for writing this article. Where are your facts? Did you interview anyone who has recently purchased a vehicle in the US and imported it to Canada? No! Your sources consist solely of Canadian automotive industry employees.

Are there any articles out there that tell the true story? IMHO this story is a disservice to the Canadian consumer - and is a waste of paper.

Anyone care to comment on the above points?

[showMeAnImport]

In today's (Dec. 2nd, 2007) Burlington (Ontario) Post there is an article titled "Car Bargains Rare in the US" by Roy Green. If I can find an electronic copy I will post.

At first I though it was an advertorial. I can't find "advertorial" printed anywhere near the article.

Here's a list of the main points of the article:

-current Canadian incentives negate most of the US savings
-many manufacturers won't honour warranty and roadside assistance plans-have to drive back to US to get work done
-can't finance in US
-miles only speedo-have to get a new speedometer
-don't have same standards for emissions or safety (bumpers)
-no French instructions for airbag -$$ for refit
-duty and taxes -you have to pay US taxes +14 percent PST and GST @ border -6.1 percent duty on cars manufactured outside NA
-must ensure daytime running lights ". . which aren't available on U.S.-made vehicles."
-cannot trade vehicle in to the US therefore you miss out on 14 percent tax savings
-US cars are only worth 60 percent of the Canadian value


Here are two of my favourite quotes in the article:

"Even before those programs were introduced (current Canadian rebate programs), automotive consultant Dennis DeRosier downplayed the cross-border price differences, saying it amounted to only about $1000 across two-thirds of the market."

and

"When (customers) do their research, they'll see more easily that the deals out there are pretty similar between the U.S. and Canada and also better than they were in October. It becomes more of an incentive to get out there in the market." Stuart Schorr, Senior Communication Manager, Chrysler Canada.

Shame on your Roy Green for writing this article. Where are your facts? Did you interview anyone who has recently purchased a vehicle in the US and imported it to Canada? No! Your sources consist solely of Canadian automotive industry employees.

Are there any articles out there that tell the true story? IMHO this story is a disservice to the Canadian consumer - and is a waste of paper.

Anyone care to comment on the above points?

Yes...

He is clearly a moron with one of the following 2 traits -->

a) He is terrible at what he does for a living
b) He is only motivated by the money that was paid to him to write these lies...

Or there is, of course, the possibility that he exhibits both traits...

[Monsieurmaggot]

I see a bunch of RFDers have been displaying their Subaru Outbacks at Subaruoutback.org.

It's a great site for Subaru Outback owners to share pictures, stories and questions.

I see Karl is on the site and displays his XT. I have a couple of pictures of my beauty there as well.

With eight inches of snow today, I might go out and snap a few of me doing doughnuts in the parking lot.

[tico 1948]

I have been away for a few days and,in catching up on my reading,have just discovered that Xan has been banned from RFD!!??!! Well,all of you who wanted to take a swipe at him seem to have gotten your way. You might as well ban me too. I was the one who persuaded him to join/post on RFD and made many referrals to him.As far as I know, they are all happy campers!I feel that the Moderators should, in all fairness, state why this ban has taken place.Thanks Xan,you don't deserve what they laid on you! A Pox on all e-Thugs!

[whampoa]

...
With eight inches of snow today, I might go out and snap a few of me doing doughnuts in the parking lot.

You mean this,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isGjwM6KGM4&feature=related

[Chubien]

I have been away for a few days and,in catching up on my reading,have just discovered that Xan has been banned from RFD!!??!! Well,all of you who wanted to take a swipe at him seem to have gotten your way. You might as well ban me too. I was the one who persuaded him to join/post on RFD and made many referrals to him.As far as I know, they are all happy campers!I feel that the Moderators should, in all fairness, state why this ban has taken place.Thanks Xan,you don't deserve what they laid on you! A Pox on all e-Thugs!

I have been religiously been keeping up to date with this thread and have yet to even understand why Xan would have been banned. Because he has been offering us deals ? He seemed to have much more support on this forum as opposed to the handful of people on his back for promotting himself (This is what we want folks, Dealers working WITH us !!) This is Red Flad Deals after all ....
Anyhow I am picking up a LGT from him this week and he has been very professionnal throughout the process. I will be referring family/friends to him as he has been helpful and good to deal with.

[scouzi]

Scouzi, Who to you go to for service ?

Carrefour Subaru in Laval.

[Lost Horizon]

I can definitely understand where you are coming from, but if Subaru Canada thinks by limiting the import from Subaru America they'll all be enjoying skyrocketing sales, they are kidding themselves.

Subaru Canada pits itself as competition with more luxurious brands, it's pricing is along the lines of intro Lexus/Infinity/European. But I seriously doubt many people who are considering a more luxurious vehicle will pick a Subaru instead of the aforementioned. Truth is, before this whole vehicle import fuzz became the hottest topic of discussion, I rarely saw any Subies on Toronto street. Even today they aren't very common and I can definitely count the number of Subies I encountered/day with one hand (with close to 70KM highway and 20KM local daily, btw did see an Outback and a Legacy with Van Botel plate frames this past month, looks brilliant:cheesygri)

If SOC somehow forced SOA into pushing new policies that limit/prohibit Canadian sales, people will just go to other options or hold out the purchase. But then I imagine SOA will be reluctant to give into SOC's pressure, they know they are "stealing" quite a lot of sales from the other Japanese big threes as well:lol:

+1 . The problem child for Subaru (the corp) is the Canadian Distributor, asleep at the marketing switch. They are pricing in the wrong market sector, which is magnified by the current dust up. I'm sure they are looking hard at this Subaru phenomon, and are printing up a bunch of high level marketing head pink slips...

I must say tho, that the dealers are (generally) being sensible about all this, and it leads me to believe that they have been pushing the block heads at subaru.ca to get the pricing in the right groove for some time. I actually think they may view those of us who x-border shopped as their allies in that fight.

On the other side of the war, BMW has been very successful, and full of themselves to the point that it may take 5 weeks to get your car in for servicing. They don't need more service customers, so their tantrums are acceptable to them. But, in the middle term, they are p*ssing a lot of customers off by their attitude. Will they ever care? Only if the sales go away, and that will only happen if their ultimate driving engineering stumbles. BMW.ca as a customer experience is like getting water boarded. They really are a nightmare of arrogant slime that washes over you.

[Monsieurmaggot]

You mean this,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isGjwM6KGM4&feature=related

Hey that looks like fun....

That could be me....

[Monsieurmaggot]

I have been away for a few days and,in catching up on my reading,have just discovered that Xan has been banned from RFD!!??!! Well,all of you who wanted to take a swipe at him seem to have gotten your way. You might as well ban me too. I was the one who persuaded him to join/post on RFD and made many referrals to him.As far as I know, they are all happy campers!I feel that the Moderators should, in all fairness, state why this ban has taken place.Thanks Xan,you don't deserve what they laid on you! A Pox on all e-Thugs!

What was that all about?

I just checked and his avatar says permanently banned.

Who banned him?

[st7860]

I have been away for a few days and,in catching up on my reading,have just discovered that Xan has been banned from RFD!!??!! Well,all of you who wanted to take a swipe at him seem to have gotten your way. You might as well ban me too. I was the one who persuaded him to join/post on RFD and made many referrals to him.As far as I know, they are all happy campers!I feel that the Moderators should, in all fairness, state why this ban has taken place.Thanks Xan,you don't deserve what they laid on you! A Pox on all e-Thugs!

there's no difference between him and a guy/girl who would go into the Rogers Wireless thread proclaiming he could save people money by buying directly fromh im.

[orion747]

A few weeks ago I brought my LGT (bought from Karl) for its 1st oil change and winter wheels swap to DT Subaru. I wasn't sure what kind of reception I would receive but it turned out to be very cordial. I volunteered it was my 1st time there and I had bought the car in the US, whereupon the service advisor mentioned they were seeing a lot of them lately. We had a brief chat about the warranty claim procedure and the wheels I was installing. The experience was problem free and very business like, absolutely no cold shoulder or hostility. After going through the future routine maintenance schedule with me, I thought "Wow, these guys are smart, although they didn't make the sale, they're working at getting my service dollars".


This is a item of worry for me and choosing a Subaru. For it's million people Calgary only has 2 Subaru dealers, and 1 is an especially 3rd rate one with a bad rep. if the good one decides to make life difficult for importers or is just plain crap I don't have a lot of options. At least with Honda, there's like 4-5 dealers here to choose from if one really ticks you off.

I love to hear from other Calgarians if they have any reports on service received at the 2 dealers here in town, for imported Subies or otherwise.

[Xinc]

On the other side of the war, BMW has been very successful, and full of themselves to the point that it may take 5 weeks to get your car in for servicing. They don't need more service customers, so their tantrums are acceptable to them. But, in the middle term, they are p*ssing a lot of customers off by their attitude. Will they ever care? Only if the sales go away, and that will only happen if their ultimate driving engineering stumbles. BMW.ca as a customer experience is like getting water boarded. They really are a nightmare of arrogant slime that washes over you.

Heh.... BMW has the same mentality as Toyota, their cars will sell themselves. O and I find that their reason for their ridiculous Canadian price, such so that people will feel good about paying premium for a "premium car", is laughable to say the least.

Last I checked, 99.9% of the rich people don't become rich by being idiots.

[Xinc]

there's no difference between him and a guy/girl who would go into the Rogers Wireless thread proclaiming he could save people money by buying directly fromh im.

The question is:"did he ACTUALLY SAVE PEOPLE $$$ and headaches as he claimed?" If he did, as was the case with Xan and several other US dealers here, I don't see why are you being so bitter other than for the sake of being bitter. If you are importing a vehicle like the rest of us, and have a better deal in mind, please share. Otherwise, stop wasting your time and energy on a matter that doesn't concern you.

News check: from reading this thread and pming several members, Xan/Carl are very nice folks who don't mind going the extra mile to go through a deal, and at a very reasonable price. If anything, we NEED MORE PEOPLE like them in this thread.

[st7860]

even the CELL PHONE DEALERS on Howardforums.com aren't so shamelessly promoting themselves just because they can help someone save a dollar.

[jed]

They don't promote themselves, but they do get into the discussion of cell phones, rates, issues, etc. Xan is promoting himself only so far and by being in the fray, he is able to give another viewpoint that no one else could give.

I wouldn't buy from Xan no matter the promotion b/c I don't have a Subaru dealer anywhere close to me to do work. So, promote away IMHO. Mods will deal with it as they deem it necessary.

[Xinc]

even the CELL PHONE DEALERS on Howardforums.com aren't so shamelessly promoting themselves just because they can help someone save a dollar.

They didn't force themselves down your throat did they? If you choose not to save that extra dollar, you have the right to do so. The rest of us who would like to save that extra penny also have the right to know about how? This is a forum and thread built around "getting good deals", unless you have problems with the deals being offered here (i.e. cold? not real? you can get better?), then I suggest you to go out for a walk, have a cup of coffee, and let others be.

P.s. anyone enjoying his/her Subaru today? Lots of snow/ice on the road lol Went for shopping with wife and Mazda got stuck on the driveway.... damn can't wait for my passport so I can start working on get the deal through heh. Hopefully picking up my Outback early next month and take advantage of the new tax deduction:P

[SeeWhy2]

Hi all,
Drove from Kingston to Belleville this a.m. and the car handles phenomonely. Hopefull the ride home goes as smooth - they are calling for possible freezing rain - yuck. Here are a couple of snowy pics.

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/5724/decembersubarupics008tw6.th.jpg (http://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?image=decembersubarupics008tw6.jpg)

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/9652/decembersubarupics009vo1.th.jpg (http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=decembersubarupics009vo1.jpg)

Shot with my Cannon Powershot S3 IS

[ziploc]

Ziploc,

Kind off ironic someone with "Ziploc" for a Nickname spills some much shite in a forum.



What part of history are you refering to exactly ???? :lol:

The dealer issues that some of us are experiencing are nation wide and not regional, there are good dealers and there are not so good dealers . Up to you to find a good one. Not sure what your background is and why your frustrations with Quebec but I suspect it has nothing to do with buying a car in the US !

First I'm very well with my nickname Suis-Bien
and
You're right about good and bad dealers or managers....



as for history get back into 60-70s when Montreal was booming and was the national business capital.....
then came Charles de Gaulle and Rene Levesque and manage to stop the development......that's very fast summary of the story....but You said it Yourself, that's no the point of that thread....

[dotcalamitie]

well...on BMW arrogance...and more importantly pricing and rich people not being idiots. Since 2000, BMW has been getting about $2,000 a month (less taxes) from me until this October. Now they get nothing. And I'm unlikely to go back at this point as I settle in with my Tribeca. I'd be really content with my Tribeca if it had Nav. Everyone says the Subaru has the best four wheel drive...I'm not so sure. I notice a tendency for it to fishtail in the snow on corners in comparison to my Ridgeline and MDX. Also, the front windows tend to get stuck in the snow. I'm impressed with the wiper melting - the windshield blower is pointed right at the blades...

[GoogleFish]

there's no difference between him and a guy/girl who would go into the Rogers Wireless thread proclaiming he could save people money by buying directly fromh im.

There are actually quite a lot of issues involved in the importation of a vehicle - as hard as it is for you to believe, it is a bit more involved a process than buying a cell phone.

[paul_lee]

there's no difference between him and a guy/girl who would go into the Rogers Wireless thread proclaiming he could save people money by buying directly fromh im.

I really don't understand why you are having problem with them to post the information we needed here. What I want to say is not every dealer (even US dealer) will work with you, and not every sales person will go extra miles to help you out.

When I first started shopping for my Outback, I called/emailed at least 4 US Subaru dealerships, none of them would sell me one. One of the sale person even brought some BS like "US export law doesn't permit cars to be exported to Canada"!!

When I finally started to read this thread and contacted Karl at Van Bortel, everything became so easy. My friend and I each drove a Outback back to Ottawa only 10 days (include weekends) after we made the decision. Everything was so easy and Karl was so nice to work with. I saved almost $12K - they are real after tax $$s.

As Xinc said in another post, "If anything, we NEED MORE PEOPLE like them in this thread."

[Chubien]

even the CELL PHONE DEALERS on Howardforums.com aren't so shamelessly promoting themselves just because they can help someone save a dollar.


Dealers willing and able to sell cars to Canadians are few and far between and I believe it's to everyones benefit to have dealers that are familiar with the export/import process promote themselves. As it was mentionned this is not as simple as getting a cell phone.
Unfortunatly if I was a dealer participating in this forum I would probably tend to shy away and not contribute to the discussion seing on how this turned out for Xan !

[karl_at_vanbortel]

I will continue to offer advice, and product information. If by making myself known I appear to be self promoting than you have my sincerest apologies. I would like to continue to be part of this forum for as long as possible. Cheers!

[bluemule999]

I agree. All the Subaru dealers on this site have been very helpful. They have saved many Canadians plenty of $$$$. I also want to know why Xan was banned.

The question is:"did he ACTUALLY SAVE PEOPLE $$$ and headaches as he claimed?" If he did, as was the case with Xan and several other US dealers here, I don't see why are you being so bitter other than for the sake of being bitter. If you are importing a vehicle like the rest of us, and have a better deal in mind, please share. Otherwise, stop wasting your time and energy on a matter that doesn't concern you.

News check: from reading this thread and pming several members, Xan/Carl are very nice folks who don't mind going the extra mile to go through a deal, and at a very reasonable price. If anything, we NEED MORE PEOPLE like them in this thread.

[Zenfe]

even the CELL PHONE DEALERS on Howardforums.com aren't so shamelessly promoting themselves just because they can help someone save a dollar.

I just picked up my new 2008 Impreza from Xan this past week. If it wasn't for Xan's self promotion or other RFDs promoting Xan's services (I guess we should ban all those ppl too?) I would have never even considered going all the way out to Manchester NH to pick up a car. I got in touch with over 5 dealerships that would be willing to sell to a Canadian and all of their prices were $1000+ more expensive than both Karl and Xan's prices.

This is a giant thread, and there are more and more new readers of this thread everyday. So it's good that Xan and Karl get mentioned often so that Canadians know where the best deals are to be had for Subarus because it's hard to navigate through this thread.

Who cares if there's some self promoting going on? Point is Xan and Karl do offer both the best deals on Subarus. Therefore it should be mentioned again and again where the hot deals are to be found.

What's a new user to think when they find out that Xan is banned? Unless they follow the thread reasonably well, they will not know that Xan was banned simply for promoting his services. Rather they will think he's a scammer and therefore the reader will be missing out on getting one of the best prices on a Subaru.

[Acuratl]

I just picked up my new 2008 Impreza from Xan this past week. If it wasn't for Xan's self promotion or other RFDs promoting Xan's services (I guess we should ban all those ppl too?) I would have never even considered going all the way out to Manchester NH to pick up a car. I got in touch with over 5 dealerships that would be willing to sell to a Canadian and all of their prices were $1000+ more expensive than both Karl and Xan's prices.

This is a giant thread, and there are more and more new readers of this thread everyday. So it's good that Xan and Karl get mentioned often so that Canadians know where the best deals are to be had for Subarus because it's hard to navigate through this thread.

Who cares if there's some self promoting going on? Point is Xan and Karl do offer both the best deals on Subarus. Therefore it should be mentioned again and again where the hot deals are to be found.

What's a new user to think when they find out that Xan is banned? Unless they follow the thread reasonably well, they will not know that Xan was banned simply for promoting his services. Rather they will think he's a scammer and therefore the reader will be missing out on getting one of the best prices on a Subaru.

Xan is back, high Xan =D

[karl_at_vanbortel]

I just picked up my new 2008 Impreza from Xan this past week. If it wasn't for Xan's self promotion or other RFDs promoting Xan's services (I guess we should ban all those ppl too?) I would have never even considered going all the way out to Manchester NH to pick up a car. I got in touch with over 5 dealerships that would be willing to sell to a Canadian and all of their prices were $1000+ more expensive than both Karl and Xan's prices.

This is a giant thread, and there are more and more new readers of this thread everyday. So it's good that Xan and Karl get mentioned often so that Canadians know where the best deals are to be had for Subarus because it's hard to navigate through this thread.

Who cares if there's some self promoting going on? Point is Xan and Karl do offer both the best deals on Subarus. Therefore it should be mentioned again and again where the hot deals are to be found.

What's a new user to think when they find out that Xan is banned? Unless they follow the thread reasonably well, they will not know that Xan was banned simply for promoting his services. Rather they will think he's a scammer and therefore the reader will be missing out on getting one of the best prices on a Subaru.

+1 :) Welcome back Xan!

[Danno2005]

Even though he is still permanently banned, maybe we can do the virtual Xan.

:razz:

And none knows why he was banned.

[GougingCarCartelGroup]

OUCH ! 2K a month? Did you get a 7 series from them?

well...on BMW arrogance...and more importantly pricing and rich people not being idiots. Since 2000, BMW has been getting about $2,000 a month (less taxes) from me until this October. Now they get nothing. And I'm unlikely to go back at this point as I settle in with my Tribeca. I'd be really content with my Tribeca if it had Nav. Everyone says the Subaru has the best four wheel drive...I'm not so sure. I notice a tendency for it to fishtail in the snow on corners in comparison to my Ridgeline and MDX. Also, the front windows tend to get stuck in the snow. I'm impressed with the wiper melting - the windshield blower is pointed right at the blades...

[GougingCarCartelGroup]

I don't mind dealers posting here, as long as they provide the consumer with savings :)

[dotcalamitie]

Yes, A 2001 740IL, A 2002 745 and a 2005 645 cab which I just turned in. I tried to get an M6 out of them, but I'm not going to pay $500 a month more to BMW Canada for the same vehicle. I know the bulk of the people on here are sore about the $10,000 to $20,000 difference in prices, but cripes, $34,000 on the M6 is just out of hand. I'm not that stupid. Time to think of the car as an object to go from A to B and that Tribeca works just fine. And always think like the rich... $10,000 costs $20,000 worth of income to get. Which means the M6 is going to take an extra $68,000 out of my pocket in earned income. Phark BMW Canada and their glass palaces.

[shopper-X]

I don't mind dealers posting here, as long as they provide the consumer with savings :)

+1
They should be giving advise with the sales pitch, not just 100% sale pitch.
Karl and Zach both have given valuable advise and mentioned SOA/SCI information that has helped us plus Zach even started www.carburner.com for us. Thank you Zach for starting www.carburner.com.
Xan's posts were 80-95% sales pitches. I too would like to see Xan back as he's an asset to the Subaru invasion, but he needs to tone down the sales pitch and share some information once in awhile.

[mdbuffy]

Well, it's a bit of an overstatement but the truth is that http://www.carswithoutborders.com/get-involved/join-the-petition/ has a petition for the Minister of Transport that could lead to harmonization of Motor Vehicle Regulations with the U.S. Lower cars prices could result. Your taking the time to fill out your name, city, province and e-mail on would enable the members of carswithoutborders to add your name to the petition. Please help change your standard of living...get a better car for the same amount that you now pay for a lesser car.

[Strikerjs]

Why are people in the GTA importing Tribeca's from the US instead of buying them from Multi-Line (http://www.multiline.ca/instock/)? Is there no warranty thru Multi-Line or something?

[Danno2005]

Better to send an e-mail to Davis at Transport Canada supporting the new regulations. The Cars without Borders poll is out of date.

Transport Canada is proposing an amendment to immobilizer regulations, which will allow US vehicles with an electronic immobilizer to come into Canada. This will clear things up for many people, and take away the ploy used by several manufacturers to prevent us from bringing in vehicles.

See: http://canadagazette.gc.ca/partI/2007/20071201/html/regle14-e.html

It's important, during the 15 day review period, to have as many RFDers as possible endorse this proposed change.

WHAT TO DO

e-mail your comment to: davisda@tc.gc.ca <davisda@tc.gc.ca>

E-Mail heading: RE: Regulations Amending the Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations (Importation of Vehicles — Section 12); Canada Gazette, Vol. 141, No. 48 — December 1, 2007

Suggested Message:

Dear Minister:

As a Canadian taxpayer, and recent importer of a US purchased vehicle, I strongly support these proposed changes. I want to thank Transport Canada for a fair and thorough analysis of the situation, and the proposal of an excellent solution.

I remain concerned that manufacturers will continue to try to thwart the right of Canadians to 'vote with their wallets'. If manufacturers would adjust their Canadian prices to more closely align with US prices, there would be no need for Canadians to go south for their vehicle purchase.

It is unfortunate (and to me, unethical) that manufacturers are using the current immobilizer regulations to prevent the importation of many popular vehicles, at typical savings of ten to twenty thousand dollars. Transport Canada could not have anticipated this when the original regulations were drafted, and then brought into law. The proposed changes will correct this embarrassing situation.

I look forward to the registration of these regulations, and the return to fairer trade in vehicles.

Yours truly,

<Your name here>

[Danno2005]

Why are people in the GTA importing Tribeca's from the US instead of buying them from Multi-Line (http://www.multiline.ca/instock/)? Is there no warranty thru Multi-Line or something?

You can buy new in the US vs. used and buy the new Subaru for the same price as the used Multi-Line Subaru.

Of course, the Multi-Line is more convenient but nothing is free.

BTW - I have heard Multi-Line is a top notch place to deal with from another dealer that I trust. I have no interests in Multi-Line.

[Genia11]

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/news/story.html?id=d96fe001-a6ad-49b5-87eb-a091add520b6

[mdbuffy]

Better to send an e-mail to Davis at Transport Canada supporting the new regulations. The Cars without Borders poll is out of date.



I hope those of you who have e-mailed any Member of the Government including but not limited to the Transport Minister or Mr. Davis of Transport Canada and have stated that you are in agreement with the proposed amendment with respect to CMVSS114 or are considering the proposed Amendment will consider your position after reading the following:

I believe that the amendment appears to have be drafted with the interests of the the auto manufacturers as the primary purpose. Of course those with “a car with no country” will be taken care of. It is within the power of the Government of Canada to correct their mistake immediately and not have the people with “a car with no country” waiting for weeks or maybe months depending on the lobbying effort mounted by the various stakeholders. The proposed Amendment is a quick fix to placate those who have created this website and get relief for Transport Canada from thousands of irate Canadians. These people were simply seeking what was their right in the first place. I believe that unless political pressure is brought to bear on the Government, Transport Canada and the automakers will have the status quo notwithstanding the proposed Amendment being adopted.

In my humble opinion,this is not acceptable as:

The average Canadian is not going to import a motor vehicle. Most will be looking to be provided with delivery and financing at a Canadian dealership near their home. However, the proposed Amendment does not provide Canadian dealers with access to the U.S. vehicles with immobilizers to a US standard. They will have vehicles that are priced to what the closed Canadian market will bear so anyone who wants to purchase in Canada will pay the higher Canadian price. Dealers will not bring cars into Canada if they have to buy them at the “retail level” as stated in the proposed Amendment. This is unfair to those Canadians who wish to purchase locally and to the dealers of Canada.

Manufacturers preventing their US dealers from selling new 2008 vehicles to Canadians makes the change in the immobilizer standard irrelevant excepting for those who had already bought vehicles and could not license them because of Transport Canada changing the rules. The proposed Amendment by Transport Canada giving Canadians the right to import vehicles with immobilizers to the US standard will be of little benefit if the manufacturers will not allow them to buy the cars.

This is an example of one Canadian’s experience:
“I saw your post on Corvette Forum. In October of 2007 I purchased a new vehicle from a GM dealer in Tennessee. I was dealing with the owner of the dealership and he knew I was Canadian and from Canada. I paid for the vehicle via bank draft which was cashed and I arranged transport for the vehicle. I was then told by the dealer that the local GM Representative advised him that it was against GM policy to sell to Canadians and he was forced by GM to refund my money. I have a bill of sale, a copy of the bank draft, and a copy of the dealership check for the refund that GM forced him to pay.”

The proposed amendment:

Para. (4.1) “that has been sold at the retail level in the United States and”
raises a few questions:

1. Does the word “retail” prevent the purchase of a new or used vehicle from:

a. an individual in the United States

b. a wholesaler in the United States?

c. an wholesale auction in the United States? (e.g. dealer auctions like Manheim / Adessa or Great Lakes Auction)

d. a retail auction in the United States? (like Barrett-Jackson or the many other auctions where new and used vehicles are auctioned to individuals)

e. a franchised dealer of an auto company in the United States who is willing to sell for less than MSRP or on a wholesale basis

2. Notwithstanding the Sherman Act (anti-competition) in the United States, what impact does the amendment have on the conduct of the manufacturer who does business in Canada with respect to coercing or contractually obligating their dealers in the United States to not sell new cars to Canadians. If this is the case, any requirement for a sale “at retail” would not permit an individual from purchasing a new car from a U.S. dealer. What do we expect Transport Canada to do to rectify this situation…turn it over to the Canadian Competition Board?

3. Does “at the retail level” restrict a Canadian dealer who wants to import new or used vehicles from the US for sale to his customers. Most Canadians will not go to the U.S. to import a car as they have heard about the nightmare of those with “cars without a country” and many simply do not want to take the effort, have the financial resources and accordingly would prefer the convenience of having a Canadian dealer do it all for them. Some dealers have been offering this service to their customers who want or have found used cars in the US. Regulations should not penalize the dealers. Dealers should, if there is any benefit to importing new or used vehicles, be able to benefit from it and pass at least part of the benefit on to their customers.

Proposed Amendment sponsored by Transport Canada:

REGULATIONS AMENDING THE MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY REGULATIONS (IMPORTATION OF VEHICLES - SECTION 12)
AMENDMENT

1. Section 12 of the Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations (see footnote 11) is amended by adding the following after subsection (4):
(4.1) For the purposes of subsection 7(2) of the Act, a vehicle that has been sold at the retail level in the United States and that has not been certified by the manufacturer as conforming to subsection 114(4) of Schedule IV to these Regulations may be imported into Canada despite not being certified to conform to subsection 114(4) if

(a) the vehicle was fitted at the time of manufacture with an electronic immobilization system; or

(b) unless the manufacturer has indicated in writing that the vehicle cannot be fitted with an immobilization system, the person importing the
vehicle states in their declaration that the vehicle

(i) will be fitted with an immobilization system that conforms to National Standard of Canada CAN/ULC-S338-98, entitled Automobile Theft Deterrent Equipment and Systems: Electronic Immobilization (May 1998), published by the Underwriters’ Laboratories of Canada, before it is presented for registration under the laws of a province, and

(ii) will be taken, within 45 days after its importation, to an inspection station authorized by the registrar of imported vehicles to carry out an inspection function to determine that the vehicle has been made to conform to the standard.

If you have not already read it, you may be interested in the following which appeared on the www.carswithoutborders.com website:

“I am happy to announce that I think we are flying to Michigan to pick up our truck next week. All of this hoopla is regarding an immobilizer device. We had the US dealer check our truck and give us that part number. For the GMC Sierra 2500HD Duramax the part #15845229 in case anyone needs to know. I have called my General Mortors dealership here in Canada, St Albert to be exact and they have confirmed that it is the same part number of the device here that is on its Canadian version of the truck.
Just to be sure that ours has the CSA approval, we are going to have the $200 part reinstalled on our truck, even though its the same one thats already on there. Just to proove Transport Canada that they are liars, and that they are not admitting my truck because of other reasons. How can they deny my truck if it’s got the part installed by a certified dealership? I will remortgage my house to hire a lawyer to sue the government if they do, because I have complied with every single thing they asked.

From http://www.carswithoutborders.com/2007/11/29/gms-stance-on-anti-theft-devices-all-smoke-and-mirrors/#more-93
There are posts on www.carswithoutborders.com which deal with the long history of exploitation of the Canadian car buyer by the manufacturers aided and abetted by Transport Canada.

The links to these comments are at:
http://www.carswithoutborders.com/get-involved/#comment-95
and
http://www.carswithoutborders.com/get-involved/#comment-144

[baboo]

Why are people in the GTA importing Tribeca's from the US instead of buying them from Multi-Line (http://www.multiline.ca/instock/)? Is there no warranty thru Multi-Line or something?

Because Multiline's pricing is few thousands higher than most of the US dealers. Multiline's pricing is very close to the US MSRP, while most of the US dealers will sell you at invoice or even less....:cheesygri

[mdbuffy]

It concerns me that our submissions are to be made to Transport Canada. I do not believe that Transport Canada is an impartial arbiter in this case. I believe that in these type of situations, those with a past history relative to the matter have an interest in seeing the status quo prevail. Someone outside Transport Canada, such as a judge should accept and scrutinize the suggestions and recommendations of those with an interest in this matter. The judge could ask for third party assistance if required. This not only applies to this proposed amendment but to the whole Canadian Motor Vehicle Safety Standard which after five years of effort by the auto manufacturers has not been harmonized with the U.S. despite strong support for adoption of the position of the Canadian Automotive Parnership Council (”CAPC”). Given the cost to the Canadian public of the existing Canadian Motor Vehicle Safety Standards, which result in non-tariff trade barriers, a judicial enquiry is justified.

Unless there is complete harmonization, the bureaucrats at Transport Canada and the auto manufacturers are going to be able to continue to play the misinformation game with the consumer and the higher prices will remain in effect in Canada. How many more times will Canadians be disadvantage by their dealings with Transport Canada over these standards that should have been harmonized several years ago.

There is alot more than the immobilizer issue at stake.

Please review the coments of the CAPC as set out below. I believe that you will conclude that the Canadian public is not being provided with a greater level of safety than the U.S. standard would provide. Why has Transport Canada not dealt with the harmonization issue in a timely manner.


ORIGINS OF HARMONIZATION

Since 2002, Transport Canada bureaucrats appear to have scuttled motor vehicle regulation harmonization with the US. NAFTA harmonization of motor vehicle regulations between Canada and the U.S. was an initiative that was started by former Transport Minister Allan Rock in June 2002 by the formation of the Canadian Automotive Partnership Council (”CAPC”). CAPC consists of the stakeholders in the harmonization process including Transport Canada and motor vehicle manufacturers.

WHAT TRANSPORT CANADA HAS DONE TO PREVENT HARMONIZATION FROM OCCURRING - RESULT - HIGHER CANADIAN CAR PRICES

Excerpts from:

Canadian Automotive Partnership Council
Regulatory Harmonization Working Group

In the May 4, 2007 Report referred to below, it was stated that “No regulations have been harmonized since the last CAPC meeting.”

(1) Canadian Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (”CMVSS”) 208 - Frontal impact occupant protection standards

May 4, 2007 Report
- Canada has not demonstrated that there is a field problem with the current occupant protection systems. With a non-harmonized regulation, Canada risks foregoing the benefits of U.S. advanced systems or compelling more expensive unique Canadian variants of vehicles, or both.
- TC has hired a U.S. academic to conduct additional cost benefit analysis and risk analysis.
- Revised proposals continue to seek unique Canadian requirements, so this issue is coded yellow
- It has been seven years since FMVSS 208 was finalized and TC still has not completed its analysis.

June 2005 Report
- Transport Canada has proposed requirements for Canadian Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (CMVSS) 208 for Frontal Occupant Protection that are not harmonized with the belted requirements contained in the recently amended U.S. Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) 208.
- Transport Canada acknowledges that no Canadian field data is available that would specifically support the intended unique Canadian chest protection requirements. In the absence of unique Canadian data, industry can see no technological reason for a different chest deflection standard in Canada.
- Transport Canada’s proposal would create a further disharmonized regulation despite the fact that they have failed to demonstrate material public benefit that would otherwise be observed from harmonizing with the equivalent U.S. 208. Transport Canada’s own benefit analysis, which the industry feels is overstated, indicates only a ½ of 1% reduction in fatalities and injuries. Considering that approx 40% of all vehicle related fatalities and injuries are still related to impaired driving and approximately 35% are related to unbelted occupants, the government may want to consider focusing their efforts on areas of occupant safety that present greater opportunities for reduction, such as these driver behaviors.

(2) CMVSS 215 - Bumpers

May 4, 2007 Report
- Canada has unique bumper requirements (damageability) and is not
currently planning to harmonize this standard.
- This requirement has precluded products from the Canadian market; these are generally low volume or cost sensitive products.

June 2005 Report
- There is no evidence that (ed. Canadian motor vehicle) bumper standards provide any measure of on-road safety and therefore the standard is simply a damageability requirement that provides no safety benefit.
- In order for manufacturers to build a vehicle for both the Canadian and U.S. markets, it must be tested to both standards. This increases vehicle development cost and in some cases can and does result in limiting the choice of vehicles for Canadian consumers, particularly when projected Canadian sales volumes do not justify the additional engineering and testing resources to certify to the unique Canadian requirements.
- Canadian standards stipulate an impact to the front or rear of the vehicle at 8 km/h (5 mph) and pendulum impacts on the corner of the vehicle at 4.8 km/h (3 mph). The Canadian test allows for minimal exterior damage as long as there is no damage to or degradation of the performance of the overall vehicle safety systems or vehicle performance.
- The U.S. standard, by comparison, requires front and rear impacts at 2.5 mph (4.0 km/h) and pendulum corner impacts at 1.5 mph (2.4 km/h) - only half the speed of Canadian tests. The U.S. test permits no damage or permanent deformation of the vehicle, other than cosmetic scratches on bumper covers and sight shields.

(3) CMVSS 114 Immobilizer

May 4, 2007 Report
- The regulation contains performance requirements for which there is no test method or procedure to demonstrate compliance, contrary to government policy.
- TC without the knowledge of the Canadian industry proposed a revision to an ECE regulation (which was rejected) and TC added the new requirements to the final regulation in a manner inconsistent with regulatory process requirements.
June 2005 Report
- Most new vehicles sold in Canada are currently equipped with immobilizers, which can shut the vehicle down or prevent the vehicle from operating if the ignition is by-passed. These immobilizers meet the level of performance required by Transport Canada, and it is felt that most of those vehicles currently not equipped will either soon be so-equipped or those models will be discontinued. In spite of this situation and extensive discussions towards an MOU (ed. Memorandum of Understanding), Transport Canada has amended the Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations to require immobilizers (ed.to Transport Canada standard) on all new vehicles under 4 356 kg gross vehicle weight, starting with the 2008 model year (effective September 1, 2007).

[mdbuffy]

(4) Self Certification

May 4, 2007 Report
- Transport Canada’s (TC) discussion paper on proposed revisions to the Motor Vehicle Safety Act (MSVA) would have the effect of restricting the automotive manufacturers’ ability to certify vehicles using available tools including advanced, state of the art, computerized techniques (correlated to physical tests) and engineering judgment. TC is attempting to prescribe how manufacturers certify their vehicles under the Canadian Motor Vehicle Safety Act in order to make compliance audits easier. The use of advanced methods to support certification speeds the implementation of advanced technologies and supports robust testing and compliance.
- TC, to date, has not indicated a change in its position on this issue or timeframe for its resolution.
(5) Emissions Monitoring and Reporting

May 4, 2007 Report
- The federal government is currently developing a GHG reporting system which may not be harmonized with the Ontario system.
- Environment Canada has proposed additional reporting obligations for process level emissions of Criteria Air Contaminants beyond those required of U.S. facilities.
June 2005 Report
- Current Canadian regulations require that new vehicles be certified to meet U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) Tier 2 emission standards.These Tier 2 standards are the most stringent emissions standards in the world. Through a phase in process that will be completed by 2009, both cars and light trucks, including Sport Utility Vehicles (SUVs), will be grouped for the first time into a common set of emissions requirements. Meeting these emission standards represents a challenge to reducing fuel consumption, and as a result reducing carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions which are directly related to the amount of fuel consumed. Consumption reducing technologies such as direct injection compression ignition (diesel) and direct injection (gasoline) engines are challenged by tight emissions standards. However, even with the introduction of new technologies and the common process with the U.S., Canada’s ability to meet these requirements is still severely challenged because of differing fuel quality. Under the Tier 2 program, the in-use performance of emission control systems must be maintained for the useful life of the vehicle or 190,000 kilometers.
Attaining this long life requirement is highly dependant on fuel quality, which in Canada, has been compromised by the addition of manganese-based fuel additives in most consumer purchased fuel. In general, fuel suppliers have temporarily suspended the use of manganese-based additives in gasoline refining pending the outcome of the Government’s independent scientific third party review. Unfortunately this review continues to be delayed by the government and seriously risks the re-introduction of this metal-based fuel additive.
Key Recommendations:
- Continued harmonization of fuel economy targets between Canada and the US remain a high priority in order to ensure Canadians benefit from the economies of scale associated with harmonized automotive product and the resulting technology and cost benefits associated.
- Maintain consistent fuel economy standards between Canada and the US.
Ensure Canadian CAFC remains a voluntary program with targets that are fully harmonized with US CAFÉ.
- Ensure implementation of harmonized vehicle emissions standards does not lead to costly duplication of in-use vehicle emissions compliance testing in Canada.


(6) Additional list of unique Canadian requirements:

June 2005 Report
- CMVSS 101 - Requires metric cluster (speedometer/odometer) and permits/requires ISO symbols
- CMVSS 108 - Requires Daytime Running Lamps
- CMVSS 201 - Not as stringent as FMVSS 201 - CMVSS 201 was not amended to adopt the FMVSS Final Rule that was effective September 1, 1998
- CMVSS 205 - References ANSI Z26 1996, but allows testing to ANSI Z26 1990 at the manufacturer’s option.
- 208CMVSS 210.1 and 210.2 - equivalent to FMVSS 225 - minor differences
- CMVSS 214 - Does not include dynamic test requirements; however, manufacturers have signed a Memorandum of Understanding which commits us to market vehicles that meet FMVSS 214 and satisfy the OOP Guidelines developed by the Alliance Transport Canada requires Canadians to make certain modifications to certain admissable vehicles imported from the U.S.. For example, Transport Canada requires certain vehicles to have the U.S. foam bumper absorber to be replaced notwithstanding the U.S. bumper absorber meeting the FMVSS as set out below (including a comparison with the Canadian standard).

The foregoing are excerpts from:
Canadian Automotive Partnership Council
Regulatory Harmonization Working Group
Progress Report - May 4, 2007
http://capcinfo.ca/english/reports/documents/2007/RegHarmon_e.pdf
and
Vehicle Manufacturers in the North American Environment
Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America
Canadian Automotive Partnership Council
June 2005
http://capcinfo.ca/english/reports/report_jun28_05.html#impact


Transport Canada requires a Recall Letter for admissable vehicles imported from the U.S. The manufacturers or dealers charge for a Recall Letter ranges from approximately $27.50 for a GM product to $500.00 for a BMW to $5,000.00 for a Ferrari. Canadian citizens are placed in an untenable situation because of Transport Canada in that the vehicle manufacturer can elect to refuse to provide a recall letter at any price. What recourse does an owner of such a manufacturers vehicle have when a recall letter is denied by the manufacturer?

The harmonization of Canadian motor vehicle safety standards with those of the U.S. should contribute to having safer, more fuel efficient and environmentally friendly cars because people having a fixed dollar amount to spend on a vehicle will get a newer vehicle with the same dollars as harmonization would reduced motor vehicle prices in Canada.

Many Canadians are aware of the excessive premiums over U.S. prices being charged in Canada for motor vehicles. Over the past few weeks, tt seems that each nightly TV news program features Minister Cannon or people with importation problems. These problems would not exist is there was harmonization.

Does Transport Canada not recognize the terms of NAFTA?

Transport Canada has created non-tariff trade barriers that limit the ability of Canadians to buy less costly vehicles in the U.S. Until the safety standards are harmonized with the U.S. Canadians will have to deal with issues that should not be issues.

The requirement for the motor vehicle manufacturers to comply as of September 1, 2007 with an immobilizer standard unique to Canada is the main reason for the large number of 2008 U.S. models being inadmissible to Canada. If total harmonization was realized, Canadians could then purchase the vehicle which they want, whether it be in Canada or the U.S. There would be no changing admissibility list of Transport Canada. Subject to the U.S. Department of Justice dealing with the auto manufacturers with respect to their practices of denying their dealers the right to sell to Canadians, Canadians should have the right to purchase any 2008 motor vehicle in the U.S. without any modification(s) (as is presently the case with some vehicles).

Examples of motor vehicle price differences between Canada and the United States from: http://www.ataleoftwoprices.com:

2008 Toyota Camry - 25% to 35% more in Canada than U.S. depending on trim

2008 Chevrolet Impala - 16% to 27% more in Canada than U.S. depending on trim

2008 Ford Mustang - 21% to 33% more in Canada than U.S. depending on trim

2008 Ford Taurus - 34% to 38% more in Canada than U.S. depending on trim

2008 Chrysler PT Cruiser - 36% to 41% more in Canada than U.S. depending on trim

2008 Honda Civic - 15% to 27% more in Canada than U.S. depending on trim.

2008 Lexus LS - 40% to 42% more in Canada than U.S. depending on trim

2008 BMW 5 Series - 36% to 43% more in Canada than U.S. depending on trim

Consider asking your MP for complete harmonization.

[Danno2005]

mdbuffy - A tremendous amount of info - however complete harmonization will only solve part of the equation.

Car manufacturers will still charge what the market will bear. And they are determined to keep doing so.

I am on your side, more imports will help that market situation.

[EL820]

Why are people in the GTA importing Tribeca's from the US instead of buying them from Multi-Line (http://www.multiline.ca/instock/)? Is there no warranty thru Multi-Line or something?

I believe Multi-Line's pricing is still $3k - $4k more than what you can get from a US dealer. I would rather have that cash in my pocket than in Multi-Line's pocket.

[mdbuffy]

As I have dealt with the legalities of the bureaucracy of the Federal Government previously, I am concerned that technicalities administered by the bureaucrats who are handling our recommendations may make the representations of some people invalid. Some of the questions that I have are outlined below.

Personally, I am going to keep in touch with as many politicans who will listen to me as they need our votes and our financial support in the next election. I will as a formality express my concern vis Mr. Davis about the proposed Amendment and the failure of Transport Canada to harmonize safety standards notwithstanding that they have had five years to do so.

Will an e-mail submission be treated as a representation in writing?

I can tell you from my own costly experience that the bureaucrats interpretation of the date (whether it is "until" or "within" or "after") and / or what wasn't said in the request can disqualify a representation. They will disqualify your representation if it is in their interest. What date must the representation be presented by...does that mean it must arrive in written form (as required) by mail in Mr. Davis' office before that date?

As far as I can tell, FMVSS114 is not what has been imposed on us by CFMVSS114. I was told that CMVSS114 came about because of pressure from bureaucrats from Manitoba Provincial Insurance Corporation ("MPIC") . MPIC have been forcing Manitobans with certain vehicles to put in immobilizers (that are those that are stolen most often because the punks have learned how to defeat the factory installed immobilizer or a vehicle without an immobilizer) under thread of withdrawl of license. More heavy handed government behavior. What's any different in Liberty City, FL where it's as tough as it gets. The Manitoba punks would be eaten for breakfast in Liberty City.

Why does an entire nation have to put in immobilizers when there are perhaps 50 or 100 punks (from Press reports or police comments) in Winnipeg some with FAS (who should be treated in institutions and not jails) who are responsible for 95% of the stolen cars in Winnipeg. Someone at MPIC has been on a crusade for immobilizers and as they are paid by the taxpayers they have all the time in the world to pursue their crusade. There is citizen opposition to the heavy handed tactics of MPIC. This will cost their NDP government votes from what I am told.

The root cause of all this BS is the failure of the politicians to write laws which have the ability to allow the courts little leeway in punishing these punks. Instead they just make us pay and pay and pay. An immobilizer today, maybe they will require us to have anti-carjacing devices tomorrow. We are the silent majority that allows this to happen.

Yes, the U.S. does have what they consider to be an immobilizer, but the requirements do not appear to be as specific as is the Canadian case where our Government has spent countless millions of dollars coming up with a specification (I can't remember the ULC or whatever. The auto industry in the US has already addressed the immobilizer issue but it is not good enough for those we pay for at Transport Canada. I guess the have to put the "Canadian, eh" stamp of approval on it at Transport Canada.

From:
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/staticfiles/DOT/NHTSA/Vehicle%20Safety/Test%20Procedures/Associated%20Files/TP-114-01.pdf

GENERAL REQUIREMENTS FMVSS 114 specifies requirements primarily for theft protection to reduce the incidence of crashes resulting from unauthorized operation of a vehicle. It also specifies requirements to reduce the incidents of crashes resulting from the rollaway of parked vehicles with automatic transmissions as a result of children moving the shift mechanism out of the “park” position. This standard applies to passenger cars, and trucks and multipurpose passenger vehicles having a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) of 4536 kilograms or less. It does not apply to walk-in van-type vehicles.
Each vehicle shall have:

A. A key-locking system that, whenever the key is removed, will prevent the normal activation of the vehicle's engine and either steering or forward self-mobility of the vehicle or both.

B. A warning to the driver activated whenever the key to the key-locking system has been left in the locking system and the driver's door is opened. Additional requirements for vehicles with automatic transmissions include:

C. The key-locking system, in those vehicles with an automatic transmission which has a “park” position, shall prevent removal of the key unless the transmission or transmission shift lever is locked in “park” or becomes locked in “park” as the direct result of removing the key.

D. Vehicles shall not move more than 150mm on a 10% grade when the transmission or transmission shift lever is locked in “park”.

E. Except when a vehicle is in “park”, the means for deactivating the vehicle’s engine shall not activate any device installed to prevent the vehicle’s steering or forward self-mobility or both. Optional devices for vehicles with automatic transmissions include:

F. Vehicles may permit key removal when electrical failure of this system (including battery discharge) occurs or may have a device which, when activated, permits key removal provided that, in either case, steering is prevented upon key removal.

G. Vehicles may also have a device which, when activated, permits moving the transmission shift lever from “park” after the key has been removed provided that steering is prevented.



The further formal update of the regulations which came into effect on Sept 1/07 is as per the following is an excerpt from Page 17752 of the 2006 Federal Register

S5.1.1 Each vehicle must have a starting system which, whenever the key is removed from the starting system prevents:
(a) The normal activation of the vehicle's engine or motor; and
(b) Either steering, or forward selfmobility, of the vehicle, or both.

S5.1.2 For each vehicle type manufactured by a manufacturer, the manufacturer must provide at least 1,000 unique key combinations, or a number equal to the total number of the vehicles of that type manufactured by the manufacturer, whichever is less. The same combinations may be used for more than one vehicle type.

S5.1.3 Except as specified below, an audible warning to the vehicle operator must be activated whenever the key is in the starting system and the door located closest to the driver's designated seating position is opened. An audible warning to the vehicle operator need not activate:
(a) After the key has been inserted into the starting system, and before the driver takes further action; or
(b) If the key is in the starting system
in a manner or position that allows the engine or motor to be started or to continue operating; or
(c) For mechanical keys and starting systems, after the key has been withdrawn to a position from which it may not be turned.

S5.1.4 If a vehicle is equipped with a transmission with a ''park'' position, the means for deactivating the vehicle's engine or motor must not activate any device installed pursuant to S5.1.1(b), unless the transmission is locked in the ''park'' position.

S5.2 Rollaway prevention in vehicles equipped with transmissions with a ''park'' position.

can be found at the following URL:

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getpage.cgi?dbname=2006_register&position=all&page=17752

[netdog999]

mdbuffy:

You make a lot of valid points and appear to share the view that we will never truly have an equal playing field and fair prices in Canada until we tear down all of the barriers that prevent a true free trade of vehicles across our borders. You've touched on a number of known barriers in your posts among many including lack of harmonization, problems getting warranties, recall letters, letters of compliance, willing dealers, etc..., etc...

There are many battles to be fought on each of these fronts but right now we are in the midst of fighting this fire that is raging that has essentially brought trade to a halt regarding the importation of new model-year vehicles into Canada. The proposed amendment to CMVSS114 would not only put this fire out for those who've already purchased these vehicles but for anyone who wishes to purchase these vehicles in the future.

Any attempt to broaden the scope of the proposed amendment is likely to lead to extended consultaion periods that would not serve the public well. You can bet that the OEMs would like nothing more than for this amendment to be shelved in order to consider new proposals. Anything to extend the status quo benefits the OEMs at the detriment of canadian consumers.

This proposed amendment is intentionally targeted to put out this one fire. Let's support it and mobilize for the next battle. Remember that wars are won a single battle at a time ...

netdog

[mdbuffy]

mdbuffy:

You make a lot of valid points and appear to share the view that we will never truly have an equal playing field and fair prices in Canada until we tear down all of the barriers that prevent a true free trade of vehicles across our borders. You've touched on a number of known barriers in your posts among many including lack of harmonization, problems getting warranties, recall letters, letters of compliance, willing dealers, etc..., etc...

There are many battles to be fought on each of these fronts but right now we are in the midst of fighting this fire that is raging that has essentially brought trade to a halt regarding the importation of new model-year vehicles into Canada. The proposed amendment to CMVSS114 would not only put this fire out for those who've already purchased these vehicles but for anyone who wishes to purchase these vehicles in the future.

Any attempt to broaden the scope of the proposed amendment is likely to lead to extended consultaion periods that would not serve the public well. You can bet that the OEMs would like nothing more than for this amendment to be shelved in order to consider new proposals. Anything to extend the status quo benefits the OEMs at the detriment of canadian consumers.

This proposed amendment is intentionally targeted to put out this one fire. Let's support it and mobilize for the next battle. Remember that wars are won a single battle at a time ...

netdog

I agree that Transport Canada and the vehicle manufacturers would like to retain the status quo. I am disgusted with the way our Government has treated the people who purchased vehicles in the US only to find out that the rules were changed on them to their detriment. There should be an immediate Order-in-Council exempting those vehicles from CMVSS114 and whatever other impediment Transport Canada has created in protecting us from ourselves.

The Government and the manufacturers need to recognize that the cat is out of the bag and there is an election in the future. There are alot of people who buy cars who realize how much more they are paying in Canada than in the US. The internet has changed the landscape.

Thanks for your response. Having to wait another two weeks just before Christmas is terrible. Shame on you, Minister Cannon. Get new bureaucrats who work for Canadians, not against them.

[eastsidesubaru]

+1
They should be giving advise with the sales pitch, not just 100% sale pitch.
Karl and Zach both have given valuable advise and mentioned SOA/SCI information that has helped us plus Zach even started www.carburner.com for us. Thank you Zach for starting www.carburner.com.
Xan's posts were 80-95% sales pitches. I too would like to see Xan back as he's an asset to the Subaru invasion, but he needs to tone down the sales pitch and share some information once in awhile.

I will continue to offer advice, and product information. If by making myself known I appear to be self promoting than you have my sincerest apologies. I would like to continue to be part of this forum for as long as possible. Cheers!

Exactly my feelings Karl =)
I only wish I had more time to answer Q's on here but I bet you know all about how that goes... Also dont know how much longer I will continue to be able to post here guys.. We are definitely getting some pressure from Subaru re: having ANY kind of promotion towards Canada.

[Clee]

I went to Subaru Auto Centre in downtown Montreal this week. I was expecting to get 2k$ or 3k$ incentives so the price in the US would be less attractive. To my surprise, I got a quotation for an 2008 Impreza with Sport package for 2k$ HIGHER than the CANADIAN MSRP price announced on subaru.CA
What are they thinking??? Do I look stupid???:evil:

[GougingCarCartelGroup]

That is the ploy, they advertise in newspapers/media, etc... and try to put one over the consumer. THey can all stick all their incentives up their asses, all of them are insults.

I went to Subaru Auto Centre in downtown Montreal this week. I was expecting to get 2k$ or 3k$ incentives so the price in the US would be less attractive. To my surprise, I got a quotation for an 2008 Impreza with Sport package for 2k$ HIGHER than the CANADIAN MSRP price announced on subaru.CA
What are they thinking??? Do I look stupid???:evil:

[shawn99]

That is the ploy, they advertise in newspapers/media, etc... and try to put one over the consumer. THey can all stick all their incentives up their asses, all of them are insults.

Oh it's a conspiracy! Nice RFD handle:D

[killbillvol1]

So I was coming back after importing a TV from the US (was half the price compared to here), and was paying duty.

Noticed a sign for free seminars for importing cars, offered in the Niagara/Hamilton area.

Here is a screencap

http://hoopitup.googlepages.com/carsem.jpg

[heavychemist]

What is very concerning to me is the bleak picture that the media is painting about importing a vehicle. The seem to focus on the problems with importing a vehicle, that the vehicle you import might suddenly be inadmissible or that there might be duties on any vehicle that you import. It's gotten to the point that everyone in my family was scared that we wouldn't get an Ontario plate for the 08 Tribeca that we imported. Well, we got a nice new Ontario plate on Saturday. If you do your homework you should have no problem with importing a vehicle. The process may seem intimidating, but in actuality it went pretty smoothly. Now to find a good deal on winter tires...

[Danno2005]

I agree that Transport Canada and the vehicle manufacturers would like to retain the status quo. I am disgusted with the way our Government has treated the people who purchased vehicles in the US only to find out that the rules were changed on them to their detriment. There should be an immediate Order-in-Council exempting those vehicles from CMVSS114 and whatever other impediment Transport Canada has created in protecting us from ourselves.

The Government and the manufacturers need to recognize that the cat is out of the bag and there is an election in the future. There are alot of people who buy cars who realize how much more they are paying in Canada than in the US. The internet has changed the landscape.

Thanks for your response. Having to wait another two weeks just before Christmas is terrible. Shame on you, Minister Cannon. Get new bureaucrats who work for Canadians, not against them.

I would consider this government action to be a "lightning speed" response. Let's provide a large amount of positive feedback to Davis on this proposed change and win one battle at a time. As well, it is a go forward proposition as he could have easily made it a "one time deal".

Bravo Minister Canon !!

[inkognito81]

+1
They should be giving advise with the sales pitch, not just 100% sale pitch.
Karl and Zach both have given valuable advise and mentioned SOA/SCI information that has helped us plus Zach even started www.carburner.com for us. Thank you Zach for starting www.carburner.com.
Xan's posts were 80-95% sales pitches. I too would like to see Xan back as he's an asset to the Subaru invasion, but he needs to tone down the sales pitch and share some information once in awhile.

My thoughts exactly, shopper-X. I'm glad you articulated it so well, because then I can just +1 that quote :lol:

I always find recommandations are worth more when they are not coming from the recommmended party, but the more information we have the better - so I hope Xan will be back.

[Marzipan]

See Audi's December pricing.
http://www.marketwire.com/mw/release.do?id=798498

But don't rush out to buy. On one model I checked it had an MSRP 30% higher in Canada. After the "unpresidented" price drop it is still 25% higher.

All manufacturers should now be announcing their December price lists and today we should get November auto sales. Let's see if the data shows dealers are hurting.

[Lost Horizon]

well researched, mdbuffy.. right on.

do you have names, rank and serial numbers for the relevant (still anonymous and safe) bureaucrats over the timeline who participated in the TC academic non action on the non harmonizing view of "we're special"? Such cockroachery can't stand the light of public exposure for long, so that would help also. Also, TC is an entrenched and old bureaucracy, full of tube radios and a particular 20th century view of things. If you back off at all, they will slither back to the status quo, and you will have gained little. There has to be enough pressure over a long enough stretch to force a changing of the guard at the top..

[perfchris]

there's no difference between him and a guy/girl who would go into the Rogers Wireless thread proclaiming he could save people money by buying directly fromh im.

Maybe we should ban you ! Xan probably saved people thousands of dollars, probaly more than most of the other threads out there.

Sounds like you might be a bitter auto salesman... maybe even a Subaru salesman !

We need to have Xan reinstated !

[perfchris]

What is very concerning to me is the bleak picture that the media is painting about importing a vehicle. The seem to focus on the problems with importing a vehicle, that the vehicle you import might suddenly be inadmissible or that there might be duties on any vehicle that you import. It's gotten to the point that everyone in my family was scared that we wouldn't get an Ontario plate for the 08 Tribeca that we imported. Well, we got a nice new Ontario plate on Saturday. If you do your homework you should have no problem with importing a vehicle. The process may seem intimidating, but in actuality it went pretty smoothly. Now to find a good deal on winter tires...

You do not bite off the hand that feeds you, the media outlets get a significant amount of their advertising dollar from Canadian car manufacturers.

No surprise that they are discouraging people from importing....

[jrvic]

See Audi's December pricing.
http://www.marketwire.com/mw/release.do?id=798498

But don't rush out to buy. On one model I checked it had an MSRP 30% higher in Canada. After the "unpresidented" price drop it is still 25% higher.

All manufacturers should now be announcing their December price lists and today we should get November auto sales. Let's see if the data shows dealers are hurting.

Lexus is a tad better, giving $8500 cash back on the RX350 cash purchase, where the difference has been around $15-20K depending on the exchange rate. Now if they given this cash rebate AND low financing rate then we would be much closer to US price.

[stock_junkie]

I faxed the MCO for my parents Camry to the Queenston-Lewiston U.S. Customs Office on Nov 26th. Today my Dad calls to double check that they received the fax and and the officer told him they are no longer accepting faxes so there's not point in checking for the fax! He said your dealership is responsible for bringing the car over??? What's going on??? I called myself and the instructions to fax the MCO are still there but when I try to talk to someon in person I just get a busy signal! Has anyone exported using the Queenston-Lewiston U.S. Customs office recently?

[dotcalamitie]

i think it's been covered here before, but too far back to find it...Toyota won't do my DRL conversion on my 2007 Prius. Where do I go for that?

[shopper-X]

i think it's been covered here before, but too far back to find it...Toyota won't do my DRL conversion on my 2007 Prius. Where do I go for that?

Option 1:
Do the headlights turn off when you turn off the Prius? If so you could try pulling a fast one and leave the headlights on and when they turn the car on the lights are on.

We leave the headlights on all the time in our Tribeca because they turn off with it. It has DRL's but prefer the full lights all the time.

Option 2:
Download the instructions here (http://priuschat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33563)
http://priuschat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33563
If you are not comfortable with the install, find a shop that will help you.

[Ventrick]

Hope this isn't true, dealer is supposed to be faxing my COO tomorrow.

I faxed the MCO for my parents Camry to the Queenston-Lewiston U.S. Customs Office on Nov 26th. Today my Dad calls to double check that they received the fax and and the officer told him they are no longer accepting faxes so there's not point in checking for the fax! He said your dealership is responsible for bringing the car over??? What's going on???

[FilipK]

Hope this isn't true, dealer is supposed to be faxing my COO tomorrow.

good luck lol

[Ventrick]

Well I called the 716-282-1400 number and the recording still lists the Fax number and says to fax documents 72 hours in advance.

[2ride4life]

just ran across this at TTAC,

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/news-blog/so-much-for-lowering-incentives/

Do canadians quailify for these incentives? I am not sure what type of incentives these are, if it matters?
Maybe Karl/Zach/Xan can clarify how the $3500 off the tribeca applies, and if any other vehicles in subaru's line-up are getting any of these large incentives?

[stock_junkie]

Yeah I know but my Dad called and after pressing "3" he pressed "0" to talk to somebody and that's when he was told that "everything had changed". I tried calling myself but I just get a busy signal now.

Well I called the 716-282-1400 number and the recording still lists the Fax number and says to fax documents 72 hours in advance.

[linekerca]

.......... If you do your homework you should have no problem with importing a vehicle. The process may seem intimidating, but in actuality it went pretty smoothly. Now to find a good deal on winter tires...

two questions about winter tires for Tribeca 2008.
1. Are theay really necessary? I wonder how many Tribeca owners have bought winter tires?
2. If yes, Can we or should we buy the tires in US?

[scouzi]

just ran across this at TTAC,

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/news-blog/so-much-for-lowering-incentives/

Do canadians quailify for these incentives? I am not sure what type of incentives these are, if it matters?
Maybe Karl/Zach/Xan can clarify how the $3500 off the tribeca applies, and if any other vehicles in subaru's line-up are getting any of these large incentives?

I got mine on a 2007 Tribeca - it was $2750 at the time.

[dotcalamitie]

At least Audi is going in the right direction. Lower MSRP, stacked with their incentives, is a good starting point. No other main stream brands have done this yet as far as I've seen - just Porsche, but they aren't mainstream. Also, Audi didn't apply this to their R8, which remains at $140,000 CDN and $109,000 US.

I think the question is that it's too little too late for the knowledgable buyer. For the idiots out there, they will buy at these lower rates seeing it as a godsend. But, I don't think most Audi class buyers are stupid. They have more price cutting to do.

Will be nice to see a price leader emerge! Who's next? This is the beginning!!!

[GoogleFish]

I faxed the MCO for my parents Camry to the Queenston-Lewiston U.S. Customs Office on Nov 26th. Today my Dad calls to double check that they received the fax and and the officer told him they are no longer accepting faxes so there's not point in checking for the fax! He said your dealership is responsible for bringing the car over??? What's going on??? I called myself and the instructions to fax the MCO are still there but when I try to talk to someon in person I just get a busy signal! Has anyone exported using the Queenston-Lewiston U.S. Customs office recently?

Mine was faxed on Nov 29. I called on the 30th and left a voicemail with VIN + callback number (as per their recorded message). Despite many others reporting the border was too busy to return those calls, I go a call today saying I could pick it up today (Monday) in the afternoon.

[the Bez]

I have been on here for a while, doing my research and would like to proceed with am import early in the new year. But for me the biggest issue is not the logistics of doing the import itself - the process is straight forward and simple. The biggest issue is finding a dealer that will deal with me ALL THE WHILE giving me the best price possible. I'm looking for a new Honda/Acura or Toyota/Lexus, exact model yet TBD. Hopefully a 2008 Accord.

For those that have successfully imported new vehicles, did you negotiate the price BEFORE telling them that you were from Canada? OR, did you tell them up front, weed out those dealers who would not sell to Canadians and hope that those that are left would still give you a price close to invoice? I would appreciate your opinions on this matter.

One other issue is that in order to find a dealer willing to sell to me, I realize that I may need to go further south. And many of you have gone to the warmer climates of Arizona, Texas, Florida, etc. for your cars. However, I have heard that cars built and sold for use in warm climates like these may not stand up to the harsh winters in some regions of Canada - especially here in Alberta. In particular I would be concerned about batteries and heaters. However, I don’t know if this is just propaganda from the automakers or the truth. Does anyone know whether there are significant differences between cars made for Canada vs. those made for the southern US? If there are, are these easy fixes once I import the car or would the required mod’s be expensive to have done?

Any help you can give would be much appreciated, thanks.

[Ventrick]

Thanks for the info, saves me alot of headaches, been getting a busy signal for the last hour.

Mine was faxed on Nov 29. I called on the 30th and left a voicemail with VIN + callback number (as per their recorded message). Despite many others reporting the border was too busy to return those calls, I go a call today saying I could pick it up today (Monday) in the afternoon.

[Dreyfus]

mdbuffy:

You make a lot of valid points and appear to share the view that we will never truly have an equal playing field and fair prices in Canada until we tear down all of the barriers that prevent a true free trade of vehicles across our borders. You've touched on a number of known barriers in your posts among many including lack of harmonization, problems getting warranties, recall letters, letters of compliance, willing dealers, etc..., etc...

There are many battles to be fought on each of these fronts but right now we are in the midst of fighting this fire that is raging that has essentially brought trade to a halt regarding the importation of new model-year vehicles into Canada. The proposed amendment to CMVSS114 would not only put this fire out for those who've already purchased these vehicles but for anyone who wishes to purchase these vehicles in the future.

Any attempt to broaden the scope of the proposed amendment is likely to lead to extended consultaion periods that would not serve the public well. You can bet that the OEMs would like nothing more than for this amendment to be shelved in order to consider new proposals. Anything to extend the status quo benefits the OEMs at the detriment of canadian consumers.

This proposed amendment is intentionally targeted to put out this one fire. Let's support it and mobilize for the next battle. Remember that wars are won a single battle at a time ...

netdog

Here is an opportunity for an ambitious politician like Jim Flaherty or Jack Layton to stage a video op on the border surrounded by happy importers standing on the back of an "I saved $11,324 pickup" shouting "take down this wall Mr Harper". Quebecers have taken opportunity of importing in below average numbers, Mr Duceppe could make a very nationalistic speech on the border along the lines of "when we are maitre chez nous we will put an end to this rip off immediately". And furthermore the QNA will invade if Quebecers are refused service by US auto dealers. He will say all this in french so the Americans will be oblivious to the radicalism on their north eastern frontier.

All this was prompted by your title which reminded me of Regans "tear down these walls Mr Gorbachev". on camera before the Berlin Wall.

[warpdryv]

two questions about winter tires for Tribeca 2008.
1. Are theay really necessary? I wonder how many Tribeca owners have bought winter tires?
2. If yes, Can we or should we buy the tires in US?

1 - They are worth the $ certainly. Once you try them you'll never go back. You will replace your tires in a few years anyway, so you're not actually spending more, you're just spending it a little earlier. and you can look at snows as a form of cheap insurance - the first time they save you from an accident they've paid for themselves.

2 - sure. check out tirerack.com and have them shipped to the dealer. you still declare them at the border of course (some ppl here have just said they were included with the car), and then enjoy.

[Dreyfus]

well researched, mdbuffy.. right on.

do you have names, rank and serial numbers for the relevant (still anonymous and safe) bureaucrats over the timeline who participated in the TC academic non action on the non harmonizing view of "we're special"? Such cockroachery can't stand the light of public exposure for long, so that would help also. Also, TC is an entrenched and old bureaucracy, full of tube radios and a particular 20th century view of things. If you back off at all, they will slither back to the status quo, and you will have gained little. There has to be enough pressure over a long enough stretch to force a changing of the guard at the top..

The politicians are firmly in charge of the bureaucrats. Deputy Ministers (top dog bureaucrats) are appointed by the Prime Minister . Deputy Ministers report directly to the Minister and can be reassigned without notice by the Prime Minister on his own volition or by the Prime Minister on advice of the Minister, Privy Council or powerful lobbyist. I can tell you first hand that Deputy Ministers quake in their boots lest they offend their political lords and masters. Been there seen it. It would be a mistake to think that bureaucrats do anything except what the Minister wants and Ministers being political animals want what a majority of the electorate wants. Lobbyists and campaign contributions do play a role.

[scouzi]

Here is an opportunity for an ambitious politician like Jim Flaherty or Jack Layton to stage a video op on the border surrounded by happy importers standing on the back of an "I saved $11,324 pickup" shouting "take down this wall Mr Harper". Quebecers have taken opportunity of importing in below average numbers, Mr Duceppe could make a very nationalistic speech on the border along the lines of "when we are maitre chez nous we will put an end to this rip off immediately". And furthermore the QNA will invade if Quebecers are refused service by US auto dealers. He will say all this in french so the Americans will be oblivious to the radicalism on their north eastern frontier.

All this was prompted by your title which reminded me of Regans "tear down these walls Mr Gorbachev". on camera before the Berlin Wall.


Jim Flaherty or Jack Layton?

Jim Flaherty represents Whitby-Oshawa riding and Jack Layton's stronghold are the car workers. None of these guys would do this. It would be political suicide.

[scouzi]

1 - They are worth the $ certainly. Once you try them you'll never go back. You will replace your tires in a few years anyway, so you're not actually spending more, you're just spending it a little earlier. and you can look at snows as a form of cheap insurance - the first time they save you from an accident they've paid for themselves.

2 - sure. check out tirerack.com and have them shipped to the dealer. you still declare them at the border of course (some ppl here have just said they were included with the car), and then enjoy.

Got my wheels and tires at Tirerack for $1600 all taxes, duty and shipping in.

In Canada, decent Tribeca winter tires 255s are hard to find under $400.

If you do order, make sure to throw in winter wipers as well. I can't seem to find any in Canada for the Tribeca. Even the dealer doesn't have any.

[georgetoy]

Mine was faxed on Nov 29. I called on the 30th and left a voicemail with VIN + callback number (as per their recorded message). Despite many others reporting the border was too busy to return those calls, I go a call today saying I could pick it up today (Monday) in the afternoon.
My dealer confirmed that his Canadian customer crossed the Lewiston border today (Monday) with the COO fax done last week.

I will be picking up a second Sonata this week and crossing Lewiston too.

[elmst200]

December 3, 2007

Audi lowers most prices to reflect Canadian/U.S. dollar parity

Toronto, Ontario - Audi Canada has announced that, for the first time in the company's history, its vehicle MSRPs have been reduced on nearly all models to reflect the Canadian dollar's parity with the U.S. currency.

Effective immediately, most 2008 Audi models and remaining 2007 models will see price reductions of up to $5,000. This includes all A3 models, all A6 and S6 models, all A8 and S8 models, all TT models, all Q7s and all A4 and S4 cabriolets.

"Audi has been improving its value equation gradually as the Canadian dollar has risen," said Diego Ramos, Executive Vice President, Audi Canada. "Now with our MSRP reductions, cash incentives and competitive leases and finance rates, more Canadians can experience Audi's sophisticated, dynamic and powerful ride."

Audi is also offering competitive lease and finance rates; many models have cash incentives from $2,000 to $12,000 that are in effect during the month of December.

http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/071203-1.htm

[elmst200]

Dec 02, 2007 18:00 ET
Audi Canada Leads the Way and Lowers Most MSRPs to Reflect Canadian/U.S. Dollar Parity

TORONTO, ONTARIO--(Marketwire - Dec. 2, 2007) - For Canadian consumers looking for one more good reason to jump into the luxury car market, that search has ended. Audi Canada announced today that for the first time in the company's history, MSRPs have been reduced on nearly all models to reflect the Canadian dollar's parity with the U.S. currency. Effective immediately, most 2008 Audi models (as well as remaining 2007 models) will see price reductions of up to $5,000. These models include all A3 models, all A6 models including S6, all A8 models including S8, all TT models, all Audi Q7s, and all A4 Cabriolets and S4 Cabriolets. Audi Canada is the first manufacturer to reflect Canada's stronger loonie in its prices since parity was achieved in late September.

"Audi has been improving its value equation gradually as the Canadian dollar has risen," said Diego Ramos, Executive Vice President, Audi Canada. "Now with our MSRP reductions, cash incentives, and competitive lease and finance rates, more Canadians can experience Audi's sophisticated, dynamic and powerful ride." Audi began addressing the currency situation with the 2008 model year when it introduced a limited amount of A4 Special Edition which included over $3,000 worth of additional features. This successful vehicle will now be added to the regular offer program.

"At Audi, we listen very carefully to our customers," continued Ramos. "They have been telling us that cash is nice but what they really want is a longer term commitment and MSRP reduction it the right answer."

Audi Canada is also offering competitive lease and finance rates. Many models have cash incentives from $2,000 to $12,000 that are in effect during the month of December.

To promote these excellent values, Audi Canada will run an open letter to Canadian luxury car consumers in ads in newspapers across Canada on Monday, December 3rd.

Full details of the MSRP Adjustments and the cash incentives by model appear below:




-----------------------------------------------------------------
MSRP Cash Adjustment IncentiveCarline Model Year Amount "Stackable"
-----------------------------------------------------------------
A3 2.0T 2007 + 2008 -$1,500
-----------------------------------------------------------------
A3 3.2 2007 + 2008 -$2,000
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A4 2.0T Cabriolet FWD 2007 + 2008 -$2,450 $2,000
-----------------------------------------------------------------
A4 2.0T Cabriolet quattro 2007 + 2008 -$2,450 $2,000
-----------------------------------------------------------------
A4 3.2 Cabriolet quattro 2007 + 2008 -$2,850 $2,000
-----------------------------------------------------------------
S4 4.2 Cabriolet 2007 + 2008 -$4,600 $4,000
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RS4 2007 + 2008 $0 $12,000
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A6 3.2 Sedan quattro 2007 + 2008 -$3,700 $2,000
-----------------------------------------------------------------
A6 4.2 Sedan quattro 2007 + 2008 -$3,700 $2,000
-----------------------------------------------------------------
S6 5.2 Sedan quattro 2007 + 2008 -$5,000 $4,000
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A6 3.2 Avant quattro 2007 + 2008 -$3,700 $2,000
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A8 4.2 2007 + 2008 -$5,000 $2,000
-----------------------------------------------------------------
A8L 4.2 2007 + 2008 -$5,000 $2,000
-----------------------------------------------------------------
A8LW12 2007 + 2008 -$5,000 $4,000
-----------------------------------------------------------------
S8 2007 + 2008 -$5,000 $4,000
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q7 3.6 Premium 2007 + 2008 -$2,000 $2,000
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Q7 4.2 Premium 2007 + 2008 -$2,500 $2,000
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TT Coupe 2.0T FWD 2007 + 2008 -$3,700 $2,000
-----------------------------------------------------------------
TT Coupe 3.2 quattro 2007 + 2008 -$4,100 $2,000
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TT Roadster 2.0T FWD 2007 + 2008 -$3,700 $2,000
-----------------------------------------------------------------
TT Roadster 3.2 quattro 2007 + 2008 -$4,100 $2,000
-----------------------------------------------------------------

About Audi Canada

Audi's history in Canada dates to 1971, when the brand was first introduced on the Canadian market. Today, a network of over 37 Audi retailers nationwide sell and service a range of premium vehicles that include the Audi A3 sportback; the sporty A4 sedan, Avant and Cabriolet models; the high performance S4 sedan, Avant and Cabriolet models; the pulse-quickening RS 4 sports sedan; the design-leading A6 sedan and Avant; the Audi Q7 performance SUV; the all-aluminum Audi A8; the V10-powered S6 and sovereign S8 performance sedans; the all-new 2008 TT Coupe and Roadster models and the incredible new R8 mid-engined sports car.

Audi Canada is headquartered in Ajax, Ontario and markets a line of luxury cars built in plants in Ingolstadt and Neckarsulm, Germany, Bratislava, Slovakia and Gyr, Hungary. The parent company, AUDI AG, is headquartered in Ingolstadt, Germany.
December 3, 2007

Audi lowers most prices to reflect Canadian/U.S. dollar parity

Toronto, Ontario - Audi Canada has announced that, for the first time in the company's history, its vehicle MSRPs have been reduced on nearly all models to reflect the Canadian dollar's parity with the U.S. currency.

Effective immediately, most 2008 Audi models and remaining 2007 models will see price reductions of up to $5,000. This includes all A3 models, all A6 and S6 models, all A8 and S8 models, all TT models, all Q7s and all A4 and S4 cabriolets.

"Audi has been improving its value equation gradually as the Canadian dollar has risen," said Diego Ramos, Executive Vice President, Audi Canada. "Now with our MSRP reductions, cash incentives and competitive leases and finance rates, more Canadians can experience Audi's sophisticated, dynamic and powerful ride."

Audi is also offering competitive lease and finance rates; many models have cash incentives from $2,000 to $12,000 that are in effect during the month of December.

http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/071203-1.htm

[longdong]

2008 Avalon $5,000
2008 Highlander
(excluding Hybrid) $4,000
2008 RAV4 $2,000
2008 Sienna $1,500
2008 Tacoma $1,000
2008 4Runner $1,000
2008 Camry $1,000
2008 Camry Hybrid $500
2008 FJ Cruiser $500

Hmm , Toyota Canada is just going to offer a very good discount on Highlander and Avalon.

I never saw a discount like this from toyota before , at least a right step on a right direction from Toyota Canada.

With the discount, Toyota Highlander is not much different from US and Canada. Because toyota highlander 2008 in us costs around 30000US (if you look at the same model in Canada) + 6.1 (made in Japan) = 1800$ + 200$ border fee + gas = around 33000$ - 2000$ (discount) = 31000$ (may add 6% state stax if register in state) = 33000$

In Canada: 40000$ + 1390$ (transport) - 4000$ (discount) = 37400$

so the different is around 4400$ saving on Toyota Highlander 2008

[lh0628]

http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/December2007/03/c6990.html

Buy a Subaru in December with confidence thanks to Subaru Canada's Price Commitment


MISSISSAUGA, ON, Dec. 3 /CNW/ - Subaru Canada, Inc. (SCI) today announced the Subaru Price Commitment - providing peace of mind for consumers purchasing all 2008 Subaru vehicles in the month of December. With the ever changing incentives in the market, SCI wants consumers to know that there has never been a better time to purchase a new Subaru from an authorized Subaru Canada dealer. In fact, they are so confident in their current offers that Subaru Canada will protect the transaction value on all purchases in the month of December, 2007 until March 1st, 2008.

In addition to the offer, which is effective immediately, SCI is offering leasing and financing from 0.5 percent for 24 months On Approved Credit (OAC) along with stackable cash credits of up to $2,000. For consumers who choose not to use the Subaru supported lease or finance programs, a cash credit of up to $8,000 is available from Subaru dealers.

"This is our way of passing the advantage of a strong Canadian dollar along to our customers," said Katsuhiro Yokoyama, president and CEO of SCI. "In fact, we're going even further with this commitment. If we are able to offer a national program between now and March 1st which is better than the current December program, Subaru will write a cheque for the difference to anyone who purchases a Subaru in December."

The program is timed to coincide with the arrival of winter across Canada, and drivers' concerns about cold-weather driving safety. Every Subaru comes equipped with the proven active safety of Subaru's symmetrical full-time All-Wheel Drive System, and the full lineup has received top marks for occupant protection from independent agencies such as the International Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHSTA).

To learn more about the complete lineup of 2008 Subaru vehicles, including complete specifications and pricing for Impreza, Legacy, Outback, Forester and Tribeca, please go to www.subaru.ca.

[agepag]

Well I just got off the phone with Subaru USA because I wanted some info on the new 2008 STI and I asked if I would be able to import the car to Canada (know full well that I can't) and the guy said there shouldn't be any problem. I then asked about the Immobilizer "issue" and he said that as far as he knows the car comes with an immobilizer, but I should check with Subaru Canada because they have been getting alot of calls on this issue. So I called Subaru Canada and asked about the 08 sti and they were happy to give me info, but when they gave me the MSRP and I asked why is roughtly $10,000 more then the US model the call went quite, and then the guy proceeded to tell me that I would not be able to import the car from the US and any more questions I should call the RIV. I have a good feeling that if our dollars stays at par with the US all manufactures are just going to play the Immobilizer card! So can we find out what the difference between the US and Canadian Imobilizer? The guy from Subaru Canada said that it could not be changed? This is just total crap, middle class can never get ahead!!!!

[lh0628]

more info from another site. there, how's that for my contribution to this thread.

For cash paying customers (ie not financing through Subaru Canada) they are offering:

Legacy:

* 2.5i Sedan and Wagons $4,000.00 cash!!
* Touring Sedan and Wagons: $4,500.00 cash!!
* Limited Sedans: $7,000.00 cash!!
* GT Limited Sedan and Wagons: $8,000.00 cash!!
* Spec B Sedans: $7,000.00 cash!!

Outback:

* 2.5i Models: $4,000.00 cash!!
* Touring Models: $4,500.00 cash!!
* Limited Models: $7,000.00 cash!!
* 3.0R Models: $8,000.00 cash!!
* 3.0R Premium: $8,000.00 cash!!
* 2.5XT Turbo: $8,000.00 cash!!

Tribecas:

* 5 Passenger: $7,000.00
* 5 Pass LTD: $7,000.00
* 7 Passenger Navi/DVD: $8,000.00

[Xinc]

2008 Avalon $5,000
2008 Highlander
(excluding Hybrid) $4,000
2008 RAV4 $2,000
2008 Sienna $1,500
2008 Tacoma $1,000
2008 4Runner $1,000
2008 Camry $1,000
2008 Camry Hybrid $500
2008 FJ Cruiser $500

Hmm , Toyota Canada is just going to offer a very good discount on Highlander and Avalon.

I never saw a discount like this from toyota before , at least a right step on a right direction from Toyota Canada.

With the discount, Toyota Highlander is not much different from US and Canada. Because toyota highlander 2008 in us costs around 30000US (if you look at the same model in Canada) + 6.1 (made in Japan) = 1800$ + 200$ border fee + gas = around 33000$ - 2000$ (discount) = 31000$ (may add 6% state stax if register in state) = 33000$

In Canada: 40000$ + 1390$ (transport) - 4000$ (discount) = 37400$

so the different is around 4400$ saving on Toyota Highlander 2008

Assuming all of your calculations are correct, $4,400 nets you a very decent 1080p 50' LCD/Plasma tv. So I wouldn't say that it is "not much different".

[superwell]

Dec 02, 2007 18:00 ET
Audi Canada Leads the Way and Lowers Most MSRPs to Reflect Canadian/U.S. Dollar Parity

TORONTO, ONTARIO--(Marketwire - Dec. 2, 2007) - For Canadian consumers looking for one more good reason to jump into the luxury car market, that search has ended. Audi Canada announced today that for the first time in the company's history, MSRPs have been reduced on nearly all models to reflect the Canadian dollar's parity with the U.S. currency. Effective immediately, most 2008 Audi models (as well as remaining 2007 models) will see price reductions of up to $5,000. These models include all A3 models, all A6 models including S6, all A8 models including S8, all TT models, all Audi Q7s, and all A4 Cabriolets and S4 Cabriolets. Audi Canada is the first manufacturer to reflect Canada's stronger loonie in its prices since parity was achieved in late September.

"Audi has been improving its value equation gradually as the Canadian dollar has risen," said Diego Ramos, Executive Vice President, Audi Canada. "Now with our MSRP reductions, cash incentives, and competitive lease and finance rates, more Canadians can experience Audi's sophisticated, dynamic and powerful ride." Audi began addressing the currency situation with the 2008 model year when it introduced a limited amount of A4 Special Edition which included over $3,000 worth of additional features. This successful vehicle will now be added to the regular offer program.

"At Audi, we listen very carefully to our customers," continued Ramos. "They have been telling us that cash is nice but what they really want is a longer term commitment and MSRP reduction it the right answer."

Audi Canada is also offering competitive lease and finance rates. Many models have cash incentives from $2,000 to $12,000 that are in effect during the month of December.

To promote these excellent values, Audi Canada will run an open letter to Canadian luxury car consumers in ads in newspapers across Canada on Monday, December 3rd.

Full details of the MSRP Adjustments and the cash incentives by model appear below:




-----------------------------------------------------------------
MSRP Cash Adjustment IncentiveCarline Model Year Amount "Stackable"
-----------------------------------------------------------------
A3 2.0T 2007 + 2008 -$1,500
-----------------------------------------------------------------
A3 3.2 2007 + 2008 -$2,000
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A4 2.0T Cabriolet FWD 2007 + 2008 -$2,450 $2,000
-----------------------------------------------------------------
A4 2.0T Cabriolet quattro 2007 + 2008 -$2,450 $2,000
-----------------------------------------------------------------
A4 3.2 Cabriolet quattro 2007 + 2008 -$2,850 $2,000
-----------------------------------------------------------------
S4 4.2 Cabriolet 2007 + 2008 -$4,600 $4,000
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RS4 2007 + 2008 $0 $12,000
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A6 3.2 Sedan quattro 2007 + 2008 -$3,700 $2,000
-----------------------------------------------------------------
A6 4.2 Sedan quattro 2007 + 2008 -$3,700 $2,000
-----------------------------------------------------------------
S6 5.2 Sedan quattro 2007 + 2008 -$5,000 $4,000
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A6 3.2 Avant quattro 2007 + 2008 -$3,700 $2,000
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A8 4.2 2007 + 2008 -$5,000 $2,000
-----------------------------------------------------------------
A8L 4.2 2007 + 2008 -$5,000 $2,000
-----------------------------------------------------------------
A8LW12 2007 + 2008 -$5,000 $4,000
-----------------------------------------------------------------
S8 2007 + 2008 -$5,000 $4,000
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q7 3.6 Premium 2007 + 2008 -$2,000 $2,000
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Q7 4.2 Premium 2007 + 2008 -$2,500 $2,000
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TT Coupe 2.0T FWD 2007 + 2008 -$3,700 $2,000
-----------------------------------------------------------------
TT Coupe 3.2 quattro 2007 + 2008 -$4,100 $2,000
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TT Roadster 2.0T FWD 2007 + 2008 -$3,700 $2,000
-----------------------------------------------------------------
TT Roadster 3.2 quattro 2007 + 2008 -$4,100 $2,000
-----------------------------------------------------------------

About Audi Canada

Audi's history in Canada dates to 1971, when the brand was first introduced on the Canadian market. Today, a network of over 37 Audi retailers nationwide sell and service a range of premium vehicles that include the Audi A3 sportback; the sporty A4 sedan, Avant and Cabriolet models; the high performance S4 sedan, Avant and Cabriolet models; the pulse-quickening RS 4 sports sedan; the design-leading A6 sedan and Avant; the Audi Q7 performance SUV; the all-aluminum Audi A8; the V10-powered S6 and sovereign S8 performance sedans; the all-new 2008 TT Coupe and Roadster models and the incredible new R8 mid-engined sports car.

Audi Canada is headquartered in Ajax, Ontario and markets a line of luxury cars built in plants in Ingolstadt and Neckarsulm, Germany, Bratislava, Slovakia and Gyr, Hungary. The parent company, AUDI AG, is headquartered in Ingolstadt, Germany.

that's why the a6 quatro is still $10,000 cheaper in the US, AFTER duty.
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2008/audi/a6/100899821/prices.html

[Xinc]

more info from another site. there, how's that for my contribution to this thread.

As far as I can tell, 4000-8000 cash back is insignificant compared to 10-20grands in price difference (check yahoo.ca/.com auto for yourself). Canadians are still getting ripped off.

[Dreyfus]

Jim Flaherty or Jack Layton?

Jim Flaherty represents Whitby-Oshawa riding and Jack Layton's stronghold are the car workers. None of these guys would do this. It would be political suicide.

CAW is very much aware that Canadian manufactured new cars cannot be imported and that they are losing business to other areas. In an ideal world Cdn manufactured cars would be priced the same to Cdn and US dealers and there would be no need for private imports. I agree with you that Ontario is shedding hundreds of thousands of auto assembly and parts jobs to US and Mex.. These are bad times for manufacturing and it will affect us all in the next year particularly in Ontario and Quebec. The integration of auto mfg began in the sixties with the autopact and increased to the state it is in now with NAFTA. Any attempt to unravel it now would be disastrous for all involved (Cda, US, Mex. Japan, Korea, Europe). I expect the fed and prov. gov'ts to support the industry until the dollar declines to 85 cents or until Cdn productivity is improved to compensate for the sudden appreciation of the Cdn $.

[Luds]

I have seen a lot about Subaru's and a few good dealer recommendations. I which I was importing one of those. I am looking at a coupe though, either the new Nissan Altima coupe or a used Infinity G35 (would love a new one but $$$$). Does anyone have a good contact for a Nissan dealer and/or Infinity dealer in the north east area. It seems like a good dealer makes the process so much easier and it would be nice to give a proven dealer more business.
Like others, I am thinking of waiting for the GST cut, but the dollar has been weakening. Canada will cut rates next week, but the US will follow suit. Any thoughts from the economists in the group.

Hi there, I went through DealMaker Nissan in Potsdam NY, just 2h away :)
Picking up the car this Friday or next Monday.

PM me and I can give you more info.

[netdog999]

For those that have successfully imported new vehicles, did you negotiate the price BEFORE telling them that you were from Canada? OR, did you tell them up front, weed out those dealers who would not sell to Canadians and hope that those that are left would still give you a price close to invoice? I would appreciate your opinions on this matter.


What worked for me was to simply get an on-line quote from one of these large no-haggle dealers such as DarCars or Carmax which are often at invoice or lower and take that quote to the dealer of your choice stating that you are currently sitting on this particular quote and start from there.

In my case, I knew the dealer would sell to canadians but usually at a premium so I sent him the online quote by email and asked him to simply come close and he did ($700 over invoice). A friend of mine who went through the same dealer was quoted just under MSRP because he had no bargaining position.

Hope this helps.

netdog

[netdog999]

2008 Avalon $5,000
2008 Highlander
(excluding Hybrid) $4,000
2008 RAV4 $2,000
2008 Sienna $1,500
2008 Tacoma $1,000
2008 4Runner $1,000
2008 Camry $1,000
2008 Camry Hybrid $500
2008 FJ Cruiser $500


Interesting how the only respectable rebates offered by Toyota are among the few vehicles that are deemed admissible. Let's see what happens when the list of admissibility changes once this amendment re: immobilizers gets in. Hummm...

netdog

[t_garp]

Wow ! I just found this old gem of an article that I bet Desrosiers wishes he hadn't written. Mind you that this was written in June 2006!!! Here are the highlights:

http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/dd/canada-usa_price_differential.htm


"Using an average of U.S. dollar exchange rates from January to June 2006 ($0.90), we have determined that the typical vehicle is $5,842 (17 percent) more expensive in Canada than in the United States."

"Why? First, prices this year are comparable to last year. Only the exchange has changed, not fundamental pricing. Second, stable pricing regimes are valued and have a lot of merit. Drop prices too quickly and consumers will just wait for the next price decrease. Third, the economy and the vehicle markets are strong and the OEM's can get away with these prices. Fourth, some OEMs purchase in their home market currencies and do not see any exchange rate advantage. Fifth, profits in the markets have been very lean for a long time and some of the exchange rate advantage is simply restoring profitability."

"One of the biggest issues raised in this study is that of arbitrage. Namely, will Canadian consumers start crossing the border to buy vehicles? Yes and no - it is entirely possible that an arbitrage situation will take place (or is currently taking place) in the used vehicle market, but it is unlikely that individual Canadians will purchase new vehicles in the U.S. to avoid the high price differentials. It is too complex for them. Dealers might but this is also limited."

"We believe that vehicle companies will do whatever it takes to make sure Canadians do not go south of the border for their vehicle purchases. Professional players taking advantage of the used market price differential have a limited window of opportunity to play the arbitrage game, since the OEMs will likely adjust prices accordingly within a couple of years."

[tfpltk]

Re: Posts #10416, 10419 etc.
VB Subaru's driver picked me up at the bus station to take delivery of my car from Karl last Friday. On our way to the dealership, he (the driver) told me that The Export Office does not accept fax and he personally delivers all papers to the border. So please double check with Export Office and/or your dealer beforehand. Or, you might get stuck at the border. Good luck.

[Snocow]

Got back today after picking up my 2008 Toyota Camry SE in Virginia.

Dealer work went fast - about 1 hour
Attended US Customs at Queenston / Lewiston this am - 10 mins (lineup)
Attended Canada Custome - 20 mins
RIV office - 30 mins
Canadian Tire Inspection - 10 mins

Nobody inspected my vehicle at all....

TIP - if you go to the US to pick up your vehicle call your credit card provider and advise that there will be a transaction for a significant amount coming thru for taxes as you cross the border. I had to do the verification thingy with my cc provider today at the border.

Per my Stooples button...THAT WAS EASY!

Was advised by US Customs that they will no longer accept fax copies of title...she handed me a one page document listing the change

http://www.flickr.com/photos/21505593@N03/2084370401/

My poor car is in the driveway all covered with slush :cry:

[Luds]

Transport Canada is proposing an amendment to immobilizer regulations, which will allow US vehicles with an electronic immobilizer to come into Canada. This will clear things up for many people, and take away the ploy used by several manufacturers to prevent us from bringing in vehicles.

See: http://canadagazette.gc.ca/partI/2007/20071201/html/regle14-e.html

It's important, during the 15 day review period, to have as many RFDers as possible endorse this proposed change.

WHAT TO DO

e-mail your comment to: davisda@tc.gc.ca <davisda@tc.gc.ca>

E-Mail heading: RE: Regulations Amending the Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations (Importation of Vehicles — Section 12); Canada Gazette, Vol. 141, No. 48 — December 1, 2007

Suggested Message:

Dear Minister:

As a Canadian taxpayer, and recent importer of a US purchased vehicle, I strongly support these proposed changes. I want to thank Transport Canada for a fair and thorough analysis of the situation, and the proposal of an excellent solution.

I remain concerned that manufacturers will continue to try to thwart the right of Canadians to 'vote with their wallets'. If manufacturers would adjust their Canadian prices to more closely align with US prices, there would be no need for Canadians to go south for their vehicle purchase.

It is unfortunate (and to me, unethical) that manufacturers are using the current immobilizer regulations to prevent the importation of many popular vehicles, at typical savings of ten to twenty thousand dollars. Transport Canada could not have anticipated this when the original regulations were drafted, and then brought into law. The proposed changes will correct this embarrassing situation.

I look forward to the registration of these regulations, and the return to fairer trade in vehicles.

Yours truly,

<Your name here>

Well done, I fired one off as well.

[jadeboy]

What worked for me was to simply get an on-line quote from one of these large no-haggle dealers such as DarCars or Carmax which are often at invoice or lower and take that quote to the dealer of your choice stating that you are currently sitting on this particular quote and start from there.

In my case, I knew the dealer would sell to canadians but usually at a premium so I sent him the online quote by email and asked him to simply come close and he did ($700 over invoice). A friend of mine who went through the same dealer was quoted just under MSRP because he had no bargaining position.

Hope this helps.

netdog

What type of dealership was this? Was it a Lexus?

[orion747]

For cash paying customers (ie not financing through Subaru Canada) they are offering:

Legacy:

* 2.5i Sedan and Wagons $4,000.00 cash!!
* Touring Sedan and Wagons: $4,500.00 cash!!
* Limited Sedans: $7,000.00 cash!!
* GT Limited Sedan and Wagons: $8,000.00 cash!!
* Spec B Sedans: $7,000.00 cash!!

Outback:

* 2.5i Models: $4,000.00 cash!!
* Touring Models: $4,500.00 cash!!
* Limited Models: $7,000.00 cash!!
* 3.0R Models: $8,000.00 cash!!
* 3.0R Premium: $8,000.00 cash!!
* 2.5XT Turbo: $8,000.00 cash!!

Tribecas:

* 5 Passenger: $7,000.00
* 5 Pass LTD: $7,000.00
* 7 Passenger Navi/DVD: $8,000.00

Close but no cigar Subaru of Canada - for instance on the Tribeca, the biggest problem is that if one wants NAV you're forced to get the DVD which is an extra 4,000. In the US you can get the NAVI without the DVD. Even comparing identical models there's still a large price difference.

By my my Calcs:

5 Passenger LTD US vs 5 passenger LTD CDN price difference between US invoice and CDN MSRP = $6,740.

US 7 Passenger NAVI vs CDN 7 passenger Premier price difference = $8,123

While I know the CDN Tribeca has HID's, the difference needs to close to $5,000 or less before I'd consider the Canadian one. They really ought to make the rebate on the Premier Tribeca more like $11,000 to offset the grossly overpriced DVD system where they likely have a ton or margin to cut anyways. I guess the dealer can come down off MSRP too to make things closer.....


Close Subaru of Canada... still got a ways to go though.

[dotcalamitie]

BMW Canada Inc. had its best-ever November, up 16 per cent to 1,956, while BMW's Mini division gained 17.8 per cent to 265.

General Motors of Canada Ltd. suffered a 10.2 per cent sales decline in November compared with a year ago, as the industry in general experienced “a soft month overall.”

Honda Canada Inc. had a 6.4 per cent decline compared with its best-ever November a year ago, and Volkswagen Canada Inc. deliveries pulled back 4 per cent.


Holy cow, why should BMW reduce prices at all up here? Pretty obvious the brain dead are buying BMWs. I'll tell you, I don't know who is buying BMWs in Canada. Mine friends and family that have BMWs aren't getting their next ones at BMW Canada.

[Monsieurmaggot]

Close but no cigar Subaru of Canada - for instance on the Tribeca, the biggest problem is that if one wants NAV you're forced to get the DVD which is an extra 4,000. In the US you can get the NAVI without the DVD. Even comparing identical models there's still a large price difference.

By my my Calcs:

5 Passenger LTD US vs 5 passenger LTD CDN price difference between US invoice and CDN MSRP = $6,740.

US 7 Passenger NAVI vs CDN 7 passenger Premier price difference = $8,123

While I know the CDN Tribeca has HID's, the difference needs to close to $5,000 or less before I'd consider the Canadian one. They really ought to make the rebate on the Premier Tribeca more like $11,000 to offset the grossly overpriced DVD system where they likely have a ton or margin to cut anyways. I guess the dealer can come down off MSRP too to make things closer.....


Close Subaru of Canada... still got a ways to go though.

This is an attempt to get higher year-end numbers.

It does make a dent in my argument that Subarus are $20,000 cheaper in the US. Now I can only say that some Subarus are up to $12,000 cheaper in the US.

I live for the day that someone shows me that a Canadian car will cost less. Has anyone found any parity? I'd be curious to know what the best value would be. I suspect it would still be thousands cheaper in the US.

In my Utopian world, cars would be at par. I would be happy to pay $1000 more in PDI since I could accept that as part of the market condition. Anything more is simple greed.

Correct me if my logic is wrong but if you look at the market, Canada is 10 times smaller but, remember that Canadian dealers have a much HIGHER PROFIT margin for the work they actually do. They make significantly more per vehicle than their US cousins. They only need to sell one car for every 10 sold in the US to keep up. When you factor in the mark-up which is on average $10,000 more, it all makes sense.

[Lost Horizon]

The politicians are firmly in charge of the bureaucrats. Deputy Ministers (top dog bureaucrats) are appointed by the Prime Minister . Deputy Ministers report directly to the Minister and can be reassigned without notice by the Prime Minister on his own volition or by the Prime Minister on advice of the Minister, Privy Council or powerful lobbyist. I can tell you first hand that Deputy Ministers quake in their boots lest they offend their political lords and masters. Been there seen it. It would be a mistake to think that bureaucrats do anything except what the Minister wants and Ministers being political animals want what a majority of the electorate wants. Lobbyists and campaign contributions do play a role.

To a point, that's true.. but I doubt that a Deputy minister would even care or technically understand detail such as the "it's only a $32 made in canada immobilizer" impact reasoning. It's not the deputy ministers that I worry about, it's the committees reporting uphill to them that come up with the actual working regulations that are self serving and full of butt ego bureauspeak that a Deputy has no hope of understanding, even if he's fired over it. There is always that froth line between the career bureaucrats and the political appointees that works as a fractal interface... never exact, always similar, and swirling around evolving strange attractors. Creative democracy happens at that fractal boundary, and this thread is one of the strange new attractors that iterates it's way into the system. We are probably making history here, but we won't be able to understand it any more than the industrial revolution was understood on the factory floor.

[the Bez]

What worked for me was to simply get an on-line quote from one of these large no-haggle dealers such as DarCars or Carmax which are often at invoice or lower and take that quote to the dealer of your choice stating that you are currently sitting on this particular quote and start from there.

In my case, I knew the dealer would sell to canadians but usually at a premium so I sent him the online quote by email and asked him to simply come close and he did ($700 over invoice). A friend of mine who went through the same dealer was quoted just under MSRP because he had no bargaining position.

Hope this helps.

netdog

Great, thanks very much for the info. I will check both of those sites out.

[03terminator]

Remember, in the 2000-2003 period cars were cheaper in Canada and the OEMs tried to stop the export to the US. I was forced by Ford to sign a "will not export for 12 months form". BMW with the Mini had a similar contract. I felt that it was completely unenforceable. So, the argument that vehicles must be more expensive in Canada is BS. For ten years (up to 2004) Motorcycles were cheaper in Canada than the US. It is now reversed.

[scouzi]

Close but no cigar Subaru of Canada - for instance on the Tribeca, the biggest problem is that if one wants NAV you're forced to get the DVD which is an extra 4,000. In the US you can get the NAVI without the DVD. Even comparing identical models there's still a large price difference.

By my my Calcs:

5 Passenger LTD US vs 5 passenger LTD CDN price difference between US invoice and CDN MSRP = $6,740.

US 7 Passenger NAVI vs CDN 7 passenger Premier price difference = $8,123

While I know the CDN Tribeca has HID's, the difference needs to close to $5,000 or less before I'd consider the Canadian one. They really ought to make the rebate on the Premier Tribeca more like $11,000 to offset the grossly overpriced DVD system where they likely have a ton or margin to cut anyways. I guess the dealer can come down off MSRP too to make things closer.....


Close Subaru of Canada... still got a ways to go though.

Forget about DVD. You can't get a 7 passenger without DVD/NAV in Canada period. I told my Canadian dealer that was one reason why I bought in the US since I didn't believe that it was worth $5k. He pretty much agreed with me.

[stock_junkie]

So does that mean they have unplugged their fax machine but the faxes that already made it through last week are ok?


Was advised by US Customs that they will no longer accept fax copies of title...she handed me a one page document listing the change
http://www.flickr.com/photos/21505593@N03/2084370401/
:

[Ventrick]

My Dealer just emailed saying that they sent the fax tonight and it went through.

So does that mean they have unplugged their fax machine but the faxes that already made it through last week are ok?

[penduboy]

OK after going through some of the posts here, I am quite motivated to buy a SUV from States. I am looking for Pathfinder, 4runner, murano or MDX. These 4 are on my wishlist. They all looks good to me but I will buy the one on which I will get good deal.

I am just waiting for my VISA interview on Dec. 20th so that I can go to States to buy my truck.

Could you please advise me from where should I start, I am in Vancouver. So, if any one has some first hand experience buying NISSAN, TOYOTA or ACURA from West side of US, could please mind sharing it with me. As I am totally new to this and Canadian dealers are telling me all kind of scary stories not to buy cars/trucks from US.

Please help.

Thanks,

Pendu

[Danno2005]

This is an attempt to get higher year-end numbers.

It does make a dent in my argument that Subarus are $20,000 cheaper in the US. Now I can only say that some Subarus are up to $12,000 cheaper in the US.

I live for the day that someone shows me that a Canadian car will cost less. Has anyone found any parity? I'd be curious to know what the best value would be. I suspect it would still be thousands cheaper in the US.

In my Utopian world, cars would be at par. I would be happy to pay $1000 more in PDI since I could accept that as part of the market condition. Anything more is simple greed.

Correct me if my logic is wrong but if you look at the market, Canada is 10 times smaller but, remember that Canadian dealers have a much HIGHER PROFIT margin for the work they actually do. They make significantly more per vehicle than their US cousins. They only need to sell one car for every 10 sold in the US to keep up. When you factor in the mark-up which is on average $10,000 more, it all makes sense.

Your math assumes same number of dealers on each side of the border. More like 10 to 1 ratio. In discussions with a couple of dealers I know, markup averages 10- 12%. My estimate says $10,000 markup should be $2,000 - $5,000 depending on the model of course. The problem lies with the manufacturer in maintaing high prices. Dealers would be happy to maintain margins and sell for lower price.

[Quick_lude]

Was advised by US Customs that they will no longer accept fax copies of title...she handed me a one page document listing the change

http://www.flickr.com/photos/21505593@N03/2084370401/


Do you know when this change took effect? What do they expect then, have the dealer send the info via courier or something? Jack at Manchester faxed my documents over on Friday Nov 31st. I'm picking the car up tomorrow and crossing on Wednesday. Please don't tell me I'm going to be stuck in the US for 72 hrs. :mad:

Edit. Just called their general number (Queenston/Lewiston) and the message still says to fax the title.

[shoprbccom]

BMW Canada Inc. had its best-ever November, up 16 per cent to 1,956, while BMW's Mini division gained 17.8 per cent to 265.

Holy cow, why should BMW reduce prices at all up here? Pretty obvious the brain dead are buying BMWs. I'll tell you, I don't know who is buying BMWs in Canada. Mine friends and family that have BMWs aren't getting their next ones at BMW Canada.

Wow.. that's depressing.

[whampoa]

BMW Canada Inc. had its best-ever November, up 16 per cent to 1,956, while BMW's Mini division gained 17.8 per cent to 265.

General Motors of Canada Ltd. suffered a 10.2 per cent sales decline in November compared with a year ago, as the industry in general experienced “a soft month overall.”

Honda Canada Inc. had a 6.4 per cent decline compared with its best-ever November a year ago, and Volkswagen Canada Inc. deliveries pulled back 4 per cent.


Holy cow, why should BMW reduce prices at all up here? Pretty obvious the brain dead are buying BMWs. I'll tell you, I don't know who is buying BMWs in Canada. Mine friends and family that have BMWs aren't getting their next ones at BMW Canada.

I have doubt about the BMW number, something smell fishy, last time I look at their showroom, it looks pretty emptied to me.

Unless their overdrive commercials on local radio do wonder.

I believe they include modification done to import as domestic sales, since they can claim the vehicle is modified and bill accordingly to the point, as a domestic used car.

[jed]

This is an attempt to get higher year-end numbers.

It does make a dent in my argument that Subarus are $20,000 cheaper in the US. Now I can only say that some Subarus are up to $12,000 cheaper in the US.

I live for the day that someone shows me that a Canadian car will cost less. Has anyone found any parity? I'd be curious to know what the best value would be. I suspect it would still be thousands cheaper in the US.

In my Utopian world, cars would be at par. I would be happy to pay $1000 more in PDI since I could accept that as part of the market condition. Anything more is simple greed.

Correct me if my logic is wrong but if you look at the market, Canada is 10 times smaller but, remember that Canadian dealers have a much HIGHER PROFIT margin for the work they actually do. They make significantly more per vehicle than their US cousins. They only need to sell one car for every 10 sold in the US to keep up. When you factor in the mark-up which is on average $10,000 more, it all makes sense.

Just to get things accurate here - I was in the business (GM dealer) for 13 yrs, and thats 7 yrs ago. At that time, a $2000 gross profit was not the norm, in fact, would have been wonderful if you could get it but it didn't happen much. I did not sell @ MSRP.

Canadian dealers MUCH higher markup? Perhaps markup (diff between MSRP and invoice) but again, I don't know many guys who can get MSRP in their sales. More like you're getting about a $800 to $1500 gross, depending upon the car/truck, if you're lucky. G5's - anywhere from $300 to $800 over cost.

Imagine stocking a $70000 truck (lots of them nowadays), paying interest on it while it sits waiting to sell, getting a $1500 gross, paying expenses, lights, electricity, heating, fixed costs, interest, and salesperson commission from that. Almost like computer retailers.

I'm not endearing anyone to the dealers, lets just be accurate in our discussion. GM sells more in CA than they do in all of Canada. And, I was told that the warranty costs are up to 50% higher here. Again, I'm not for the current pricing structure - I was around in 97-2000 when curbers were grabbing CDN cars/trucks/parts and shipping them South for HUGE profits.

Manufacturers got themselves into one he77 of a pickle by raising Cdn prices, so when the dollar got to parity, you know the rest.

[accorder]

Mazda: down 9.9% YOY, 4715 sold
Nisssan: down 11% YOY, 4386 sold
Infiniti: down 27% YOY, 472 sold
Chrysler: up 7.2% YOY, 18455 sold
GM: down 10% YOY, 28071 sold
Ford down 8.4% YOY, 15909 sold
Toyota: down 7.9% YOY, 11587 sold
Lexus: down 13.4% YOY, 967 sold
Honda: down 6.4% YOY, 11464 sold
Acura: up 22.9% YOY, 2212 sold
BMW up 16% YOY, 1956 sold
Audi: down 12% YOY, 606 sold
Mercedes-Benz: up 22% YOY, 1434 sold


detailed reports can be checked at http://ataleoftwoprices.com/forum/forums/8.aspx

"Patience is a virtue"

[dotcalamitie]

as for the BMW show rooms being empty, they are always empty! They only have to sell a car a week to make enough profit to pay for their glass palace. What a sham. Do you know how valuable the glass palace was in my purchase decision? I ordered my last BMW on the phone and had them deliver it to me. I didn't even step inside the show room. If I sound disgruntled...boy am I. I tried to buy their M6 for $139,000 (they negotiated down to $134,000)...fat chance I'm going to pay that when I can get the same in the US for $100,000. Do they think I'm an idiot? I think if BMW Canada offered that car to me for $100,000 now I would tell them to stuff it. They ruined the car buying experience.

[atorontoguy]

How do I calculate the average litres per 100 km?

I check Porsche's website for Cayenne spec:
City: 14 mpg
Highway: 20 mpg

So do I just take the average, i.e. 17mpg. Then it will be 13.84 litres per 100km, and the green levy tax will be $1,000. Is that correct? Thanks.

[inkognito81]

Heard on the radio this morning that November sales are down 9% from last November and Dennis "BS" Desrosiers had to put his 2 cents down saying that it's because car byers are waiting for better prices (wait... that is actually true! Am I in the twilight zone or something?) and that car sales have been so high for the last 5 years, so people don't need to buy as many cars now... (ahh, the good ol' Desrosiers is back - got worried there a second :lol: )

[scouzi]

Wow.. that's depressing.

The number of cars is small. BWM , Porsche and Audi numbers fluctuate quite a lot because of the small number of units invoved.

[scouzi]

Just to get things accurate here - I was in the business (GM dealer) for 13 yrs, and thats 7 yrs ago. At that time, a $2000 gross profit was not the norm, in fact, would have been wonderful if you could get it but it didn't happen much. I did not sell @ MSRP.

Canadian dealers MUCH higher markup? Perhaps markup (diff between MSRP and invoice) but again, I don't know many guys who can get MSRP in their sales. More like you're getting about a $800 to $1500 gross, depending upon the car/truck, if you're lucky. G5's - anywhere from $300 to $800 over cost.

Imagine stocking a $70000 truck (lots of them nowadays), paying interest on it while it sits waiting to sell, getting a $1500 gross, paying expenses, lights, electricity, heating, fixed costs, interest, and salesperson commission from that. Almost like computer retailers.

I'm not endearing anyone to the dealers, lets just be accurate in our discussion. GM sells more in CA than they do in all of Canada. And, I was told that the warranty costs are up to 50% higher here. Again, I'm not for the current pricing structure - I was around in 97-2000 when curbers were grabbing CDN cars/trucks/parts and shipping them South for HUGE profits.

Manufacturers got themselves into one he77 of a pickle by raising Cdn prices, so when the dollar got to parity, you know the rest.

I doubt that there's only $1500 gross on a 70k truck. It wouldn't make business sense unless there's huge volume. From what I understand, GM Canada finances their dealers (0% interest for x number of days) while they do not in the States.

[scouzi]

Mazda: down 9.9% YOY, 4715 sold
Nisssan: down 11% YOY, 4386 sold
Infiniti: down 27% YOY, 472 sold
Chrysler: up 7.2% YOY, 18455 sold
GM: down 10% YOY, 28071 sold
Ford down 8.4% YOY, 15909 sold
Toyota: down 7.9% YOY, 11587 sold
Lexus: down 13.4% YOY, 967 sold
Honda: down 6.4% YOY, 11464 sold
Acura: down 22.9% YOY, 2212 sold
BMW up 16% YOY, 1956 sold
Audi: down 12% YOY, 606 sold
Mercedes-Benz: up 22% YOY, 1434 sold


detailed reports can be checked at http://ataleoftwoprices.com/forum/forums/8.aspx

"Patience is a virtue"

Looks like the premium brands are taking the hit (Acura, Infiniti and Lexus).

MB and BMW number do look odd.

[elmst200]

before making this statement, please check how BIG the CA is. California as a state has more population than all of Canada.
Please also provide evidence showing the "warranty costs are up to 50% higher" than in the U.S. One thing I want to point out is the trick of "up to", maybe one item of warranty is 50% higher and the remaining 1000 items are just the same or lower here in Canada.

I'm not endearing anyone to the dealers, lets just be accurate in our discussion. GM sells more in CA than they do in all of Canada. And, I was told that the warranty costs are up to 50% higher here. Again, I'm not for the current pricing structure - I was around in 97-2000 when curbers were grabbing CDN cars/trucks/parts and shipping them South for HUGE profits.

[elmst200]

I guess this might due to the fact that most "premium" buyers are actually leasing instead of buying. A lot of the leasers are small business owners who want to take tax advantages. Not the case when buying in the U.S.

Looks like the premium brands are taking the hit (Acura, Infiniti and Lexus).

MB and BMW number do look odd.

[Ventrick]

So does that mean they have unplugged their fax machine but the faxes that already made it through last week are ok?

Managed to get through on the phone this morning. Person who answered told me that he was not aware of them no longer accepting faxes. He did mention that sometimes faxes are illegible or the fax machine goes down and causes problems.

[dotcalamitie]

I wonder if "sold" means an actual purchase by a customer or a consignment delivery to a dealer lot or maybe a dealer purchase? I don't see BMW and Mercedes customers being the kind of people who take to being screwed.

[GougingCarCartelGroup]

Those BMW numbers smell funky. :confused:

I mean wow, are Canadians really that stupid?

[scouzi]

I guess this might due to the fact that most "premium" buyers are actually leasing instead of buying. A lot of the leasers are small business owners who want to take tax advantages. Not the case when buying in the U.S.


The sales numbers include leases. As far as they are concerned, the car is sold - lease or not).

[torontostar1966]

You can also check the TC's web site, there is a list for every car/truck.


How do I calculate the average litres per 100 km?

I check Porsche's website for Cayenne spec:
City: 14 mpg
Highway: 20 mpg

So do I just take the average, i.e. 17mpg. Then it will be 13.84 litres per 100km, and the green levy tax will be $1,000. Is that correct? Thanks.

[sb_tor]

Heard on the radio this morning that November sales are down 9% from last November and Dennis "BS" Desrosiers had to put his 2 cents down saying that it's because car byers are waiting for better prices (wait... that is actually true! Am I in the twilight zone or something?) and that car sales have been so high for the last 5 years, so people don't need to buy as many cars now... (ahh, the good ol' Desrosiers is back - got worried there a second :lol: )

here is the toronto star article
http://www.wheels.ca/article/34583

Dennis "BS" Desrosiers was also quoted thus: "There is an interesting consumer psychology in play," said industry watcher Dennis DesRosiers. "When prices drop drastically, like they did in response to our above-par dollar, consumers will often sit on their hands and wait for prices to fall even further."

[scouzi]

here is the toronto star article
http://www.wheels.ca/article/34583

Dennis "BS" Desrosiers was also quoted thus: "There is an interesting consumer psychology in play," said industry watcher Dennis DesRosiers. "When prices drop drastically, like they did in response to our above-par dollar, consumers will often sit on their hands and wait for prices to fall even further."

What a mouthpiece. I guess he knows who butters his bread. So the lower prices go , the lower sales will be. Where was he schooled?

It's the opposite that happens. It's called price elasticity. You lower a price to increase sales volume.

All this means is that consumers find these drastic price drops inadequate.

[torontostar1966]

I have my friend bought a new car for me from the dealer. Then he will sell it to me as a used car.
This is what he payed.
car+destination 25,900
state tax 1,619
lic.+doc. 250
-----------------------
total 27,769

What number should I put on the Bill of Sale? use 25900+1619 or something like 26500 or maybe even lower? I don't want get trouble at Canadian border. Can somebody having the experience answer this question? Do they(officer at the boarder) ask for the proof for the price like the document from the dealer or the receipt when you wired the money?

Thanks a lot.

[scouzi]

here is the toronto star article
http://www.wheels.ca/article/34583

Dennis "BS" Desrosiers was also quoted thus: "There is an interesting consumer psychology in play," said industry watcher Dennis DesRosiers. "When prices drop drastically, like they did in response to our above-par dollar, consumers will often sit on their hands and wait for prices to fall even further."


He's always contradicting himself. Now he claims:

"He also noted that monthly sales figures from Canadian manufacturers may not accurately reflect the market in November because of a surge in consumers who bought vehicles in the U.S. and imported them back into Canada"

He's been previously pounding the table stating that imports were irrelevant. November imports were probably down to a trickle due to the immobilzer issue and the fact that most vehicles were no longer on the admissible list.

[scouzi]

I have my friend bought a new car for me from the dealer. Then he will sell it to me as a used car.
This is what he payed.
car+destination 25,900
state tax 1,619
lic.+doc. 250
-----------------------
total 27,769

What number should I put on the Bill of Sale? use 25900+1619 or something like 26500 or maybe even lower? I don't want get trouble at Canadian border. Can somebody having the experience answer this question? Do they(officer at the boarder) ask for the proof for the price like the document from the dealer or the receipt when you wired the money?

Thanks a lot.

The best thing to do in my opinion is to call Canada Customs and ask what they need.

[p110232]

He's always contradicting himself....

He is shooting himself in the foot. He is loosing credibility each day.

Day will come when the media no longer needs to get a quote from him.

[shopper-X]

I have my friend bought a new car for me from the dealer. Then he will sell it to me as a used car.
This is what he payed.
car+destination 25,900
state tax 1,619
lic.+doc. 250
-----------------------
total 27,769

What number should I put on the Bill of Sale? use 25900+1619 or something like 26500 or maybe even lower? I don't want get trouble at Canadian border. Can somebody having the experience answer this question? Do they(officer at the boarder) ask for the proof for the price like the document from the dealer or the receipt when you wired the money?

Thanks a lot.


I would put the car's value without the extras like Destination, State Tax, Lic. + Doc fee's. The first owner pays all those fee's not subsequent owners.

Plus when declaring the vehicle at the border the tax is calculated on the value of the goods not total paid as that could lead to a tax on tax situation.
However if the government can charge GST on top the Excise Tax (AC tax) it would not surprise me.

When I bought me vehicle they charged the tax on the after rebate price, no tax since I'm not a US resident.

[p110232]

as for the BMW show rooms being empty, they are always empty! They only have to sell a car a week to make enough profit to pay for their glass palace. What a sham. Do you know how valuable the glass palace was in my purchase decision? I ordered my last BMW on the phone and had them deliver it to me. I didn't even step inside the show room. If I sound disgruntled...boy am I. I tried to buy their M6 for $139,000 (they negotiated down to $134,000)...fat chance I'm going to pay that when I can get the same in the US for $100,000. Do they think I'm an idiot? I think if BMW Canada offered that car to me for $100,000 now I would tell them to stuff it. They ruined the car buying experience.

I was at a BMW dealer Saturday morning for 2 hours. No showroom traffic at all, considering it's a weekend. Sales will go down, esp with the attitude that BMW is showing... it's just a matter of time.

dotcalamite, with your enormous experience with BMWs, i know you are fully aware of BMW's driving dynamics. How are you adjusting to the handling of the Subie and Prius? Do you miss the tight handling and sure-footedness of the bimmers?

[bguy7890]

I have my friend bought a new car for me from the dealer. Then he will sell it to me as a used car.
This is what he payed.
car+destination 25,900
state tax 1,619
lic.+doc. 250
-----------------------
total 27,769

What number should I put on the Bill of Sale? use 25900+1619 or something like 26500 or maybe even lower? I don't want get trouble at Canadian border. Can somebody having the experience answer this question? Do they(officer at the boarder) ask for the proof for the price like the document from the dealer or the receipt when you wired the money?

Thanks a lot.

You should put at least $27,769. It is actually a tax on tax situation as Canada Customs doesn't care how much you paid in U.S sales tax. They do that even if you buy clothings from the U.S. Unlike Income Tax, there's no tax treaty between the 2 countries on sales taxes.

They will understand that your friend is doing you a favor by buying the car for you but you should be able to show Canada Customs that your friend does not lose anything by selling the car to you.

Hope this helps.

[rob3blk]

Received a letter from ministry of finance from the retail sales tax branch. Plated my legacy nov.20,2007 and received letter dec.03,2007. Just called the contact on the letter and gave a verbal description of the retail sales tax calculated on the declaration/receipt motor vehicle transfer. And that was it. So if you get one, its no big deal.

[jadeboy]

I know that Lexus/Toyota will not sell new to Canadians. But I am wonder what the exact procedures they follow. Do they title the document and mail it to the DMV or directly to you (assuming you have a US address), do you have to register the car, and get insurance ?. How long is the wait.. more details the better... because I am going to get a friend in a state without sale tax to help me buy a Lexus from another state near me.

[Strikerjs]

Looks like the premium brands are taking the hit (Acura, Infiniti and Lexus).

MB and BMW number do look odd.

According to Reuters article, acura is up 22.9%, not down 22.9%.

Honda division sales were down 6.4 percent to 11,464 units. While its Acura division posted a 22.9 percent increase with sales of 2,212 units. (Reporting by Cameron French; Editing by Rob Wilson)

[Lost Horizon]

I was at a BMW dealer Saturday morning for 2 hours. No showroom traffic at all, considering it's a weekend. Sales will go down, esp with the attitude that BMW is showing... it's just a matter of time.

dotcalamite, with your enormous experience with BMWs, i know you are fully aware of BMW's driving dynamics. How are you adjusting to the handling of the Subie and Prius? Do you miss the tight handling and sure-footedness of the bimmers?

.. I'll let dotcalamite speak on his take, but I've also had new bimmers for the last 15 years, both 3 and 5 series. This Subaru for my wife was the first. The subaru handles surprisingly well.. Overall, it's a bit lighter on the steering in town, but with VDC and our very wet rain soaked highways, it's a great car at speed, solid feel, goes where you point it, good brakes. While it doesn't match the two turbo'd 335 on 19" performance rubber, for the money, it's a very solid ride.

[dotcalamitie]

Am I adjusting to the Tribeca and Prius from BMW? Absolutely. The car industry has given me a huge distaste right now and I'm quite happy driving in the Tribeca and Prius. The only time I'm not is when I jump in a friends upscale vehicle and then that's when I know I miss the BMW. Driving the Prius is like playing a video game, experimenting for top fuel economy. It is a lot of fun. The Tribeca...I really enjoy it...but it is no MDX or X5 in any way shape or form (there is a $10,000 CDN difference between those vehicles and that differential in value is clear no matter what the dollar is). I'm learning how to drive the AWD Tribeca on the snow which is fun. It loves to fish tail ( I live North of Barrie, so our roads are snowpacked) so I'm always trying to slide it on corners. If I never got in another car I'd be happy with the Tribeca from an ego perspective. My main beef is that I didn't get one with Nav, a feature I've been using since 2001. Nav is important.

[DrXenon]

I have my friend bought a new car for me from the dealer. Then he will sell it to me as a used car.
This is what he payed.
car+destination 25,900
state tax 1,619
lic.+doc. 250
-----------------------
total 27,769

What number should I put on the Bill of Sale? use 25900+1619 or something like 26500 or maybe even lower? I don't want get trouble at Canadian border. Can somebody having the experience answer this question? Do they(officer at the boarder) ask for the proof for the price like the document from the dealer or the receipt when you wired the money?


My advice is to declare the exact amount you're paying to your friend for the car. Unless your friend is, in effect, giving you money, that will be 27769. Believe me, the criminal record you might get is not worth the hundred dollars in tax you'll save by misleading the tax man.

[jwstewart]

These represent price reductions of betwwen 12-20% accross a broad range of vehicles, which I think is the best effort yet from any manufacturer.

Although the prices are still up to 25% higher than comparable US prices, hopefully it will result in increased domestic competition and further reductions.

The reductions while not high enough to dissuade shoppers from importing, are enough to justify switching brands. A Canadian Tribeca now costs less than a Canadian Highlander, Pilot, or Murano, or similar.

For cash paying customers (ie not financing through Subaru Canada) they are offering:

Legacy:

* 2.5i Sedan and Wagons $4,000.00 cash!!
* Touring Sedan and Wagons: $4,500.00 cash!!
* Limited Sedans: $7,000.00 cash!!
* GT Limited Sedan and Wagons: $8,000.00 cash!!
* Spec B Sedans: $7,000.00 cash!!

Outback:

* 2.5i Models: $4,000.00 cash!!
* Touring Models: $4,500.00 cash!!
* Limited Models: $7,000.00 cash!!
* 3.0R Models: $8,000.00 cash!!
* 3.0R Premium: $8,000.00 cash!!
* 2.5XT Turbo: $8,000.00 cash!!

Tribecas:

* 5 Passenger: $7,000.00
* 5 Pass LTD: $7,000.00
* 7 Passenger Navi/DVD: $8,000.00

[blazerzr2]

..I'm learning how to drive the AWD Tribeca on the snow which is fun. It loves to fish tail ( I live North of Barrie, so our roads are snowpacked) so I'm always trying to slide it on corners. .

Just a question...should the Tribeca be that easy to fishtail? I don't own one right now (but plan to soon!), but wouldn't the AWD keep the vehicle rather stable? Just wondering if the "fishtailing" or tendency to do so would deter from getting the AWD vehicle in the first place. Trying to convince the wife that Subaru's AWD is the best way to go for safety, especially in winter. If that's not true, then I just might be in the doghouse!!!! LOL :lol: :confused:

[p110232]

Lost Horizon, Dotcalamitie, I thank you for your comments gentlemen. It's enlightening.

I test drove the 535xi sedan during the annual BMW test-drive event in June and fell in love with it, to a point that I want to lease one as my next car in 2008. The "love" is slowly wearing-off though due to BMW Canada's stance on making life difficult for other owners. I would rather loose the car than support a "car nazi"! :mad:

[st7860]

AWD does nothing unless you replace the factory all seasons with something like nokia or blizzak snow tires.

[scouzi]

Just a question...should the Tribeca be that easy to fishtail? I don't own one right now (but plan to soon!), but wouldn't the AWD keep the vehicle rather stable? Just wondering if the "fishtailing" or tendency to do so would deter from getting the AWD vehicle in the first place. Trying to convince the wife that Subaru's AWD is the best way to go for safety, especially in winter. If that's not true, then I just might be in the doghouse!!!! LOL :lol: :confused:

These vehicles are not glued to the ground. The technology helps but it can't compensate 100% for the reduction in friction. I fish tail mine also by stepping on the gas in corners but it's easy to stabilize. Just taking your foot off the pedal end the slipping immediately.

So the fish-tailing is for fun bit you could still end up in the ditch in spite of all the technology.

[lh0628]

Just a question...should the Tribeca be that easy to fishtail? I don't own one right now (but plan to soon!), but wouldn't the AWD keep the vehicle rather stable? Just wondering if the "fishtailing" or tendency to do so would deter from getting the AWD vehicle in the first place. Trying to convince the wife that Subaru's AWD is the best way to go for safety, especially in winter. If that's not true, then I just might be in the doghouse!!!! LOL :lol: :confused:

AWD is easier to fishtail because there are power allocated to the rear wheels too, so when cornering the rear pushes compare to a FWD where the rear just follows...

AWD behaves differently than a FWD, especially in snow, it just takes time to learn how to drive a AWD.

[scouzi]

These represent price reductions of betwwen 12-20% accross a broad range of vehicles, which I think is the best effort yet from any manufacturer.

Although the prices are still up to 25% higher than comparable US prices, hopefully it will result in increased domestic competition and further reductions.

The reductions while not high enough to dissuade shoppers from importing, are enough to justify switching brands. A Canadian Tribeca now costs less than a Canadian Highlander, Pilot, or Murano, or similar.


Why no Imprezzas? It seems they are only doing this for US built models.

[Jay-c]

AWD does nothing unless you replace the factory all seasons with something like nokia or blizzak snow tires.

Somewhat agree... AWD helps a bit, but pairing that with some good winter rubbers and it can't be beat! I put x-ice's on my outback... amazing in the snow!!

[scouzi]

AWD is easier to fishtail because there are power allocated to the rear wheels too, so when cornering the rear pushes compare to a FWD where the rear just follows...

AWD behaves differently than a FWD, especially in snow, it just takes time to learn how to drive a AWD.

My question is there any difference between AWD and 4WD?

[lh0628]

My question is there any difference between AWD and 4WD?

http://www.4x4abc.com/4WD101/difference_4WD_awd.html

[jwstewart]

Just a question...should the Tribeca be that easy to fishtail? I don't own one right now (but plan to soon!), but wouldn't the AWD keep the vehicle rather stable? Just wondering if the "fishtailing" or tendency to do so would deter from getting the AWD vehicle in the first place. Trying to convince the wife that Subaru's AWD is the best way to go for safety, especially in winter. If that's not true, then I just might be in the doghouse!!!! LOL

I find that the Subaru AWD fishtails easier than my previous AWD drive vehicle. I suspect it is either the AWD transfer case, (which I would expect to transfer power to the front wheels when rear-wheel slippage is about to occur) or possibly the lack of a Limited Slip rear Diff. (One rear wheel could be starting to losing traction easily)

On my previous vehicle the transfer case would balance power front-rear very equally, and the LSD balanced the rear wheel traction very nicely making for lateral slides instead of fishtailing.

However, to be honest, I'm not sure that the Subaru transfer case is even able to shift power longitudinally on demand. I bought it because it was cheaper than anything else I could import.

And finally, I should point out I'm talking about full-throttle behaviour, if your wife can live with gentle application of power, she will have far more traction that she's accustomed to.

I plan to experiment with additional skid testing as time permits:cheesygri

[Ventrick]

With regards to the question of Queenston Lewiston accepting faxes. I just got a call back letting me know that my paper work was received last night and it was entered into the system and I will be able to export on Friday.

[SeeWhy2]

Somewhat agree... AWD helps a bit, but pairing that with some good winter rubbers and it can't be beat! I put x-ice's on my outback... amazing in the snow!!

Where did you buy the x-ices? I was hoping COSTCO as they have the rebate but don't see them on the website. Crappy Tire does carry them but no rebate :cry:
TIA,

[torontostar1966]

I'm thinking the thing as you said.

Thanks everyone that reply my post.



My advice is to declare the exact amount you're paying to your friend for the car. Unless your friend is, in effect, giving you money, that will be 27769. Believe me, the criminal record you might get is not worth the hundred dollars in tax you'll save by misleading the tax man.

[BeeBee]

Where did you buy the x-ices? I was hoping COSTCO as they have the rebate but don't see them on the website. Crappy Tire does carry them but no rebate :cry:
TIA,

Check out tirerack:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=X-Ice

Also this rfd thread about tirerack:

http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=498864

[Sinth]

FYI Stafford on AM640 talking about auto industry right now.

[lightbulb]

I have Dunlop M3 winter performance (oxymoron?) tires on my LGT. I decided to go with them over Blizzaks as I'm in central Toronto (mostly plowed) for the firmer ride and non-snow handling. Driving through the blowing and deep (by Toronto standards) snow 3 AM, Sunday morning, I gave the car/tire combination a good workout. The car tracked and accelerated pretty good whereas I could see many others spinning their wheels and sliding about. Overall, I like the Subie LGT, it really sticks to the road; much better than my FWD Volvo. AWD or SUV, real winter tires make a difference.

Somewhat agree... AWD helps a bit, but pairing that with some good winter rubbers and it can't be beat! I put x-ice's on my outback... amazing in the snow!!

[Jay-c]

Check out tirerack:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=X-Ice

yep that's where i got mine.. with rims too!

[Jay-c]

I have Dunlop M3 winter performance (oxymoron?) tires on my LGT. I decided to go with them over Blizzaks as I'm in central Toronto (mostly plowed) for the firmer ride and non-snow handling. Driving through the blowing and deep (by Toronto standards) snow 3 AM, Sunday morning, I gave the car/tire combination a good workout. The car tracked and accelerated pretty good whereas I could see many others spinning their wheels and sliding about. Overall, I like the Subie LGT, it really sticks to the road; much better than my FWD Volvo. AWD or SUV, real winter tires make a difference.

Absolutely! I do agree with your tire selection through for your needs - makes sense. I live up in Barrie, so "real" winter tires were an obvious choice! All that mess up there yesterday/today is a breeze to travel through!

[djs5916]

I agree that Transport Canada and the vehicle manufacturers would like to retain the status quo. I am disgusted with the way our Government has treated the people who purchased vehicles in the US only to find out that the rules were changed on them to their detriment. There should be an immediate Order-in-Council exempting those vehicles from CMVSS114 and whatever other impediment Transport Canada has created in protecting us from ourselves.

The Government and the manufacturers need to recognize that the cat is out of the bag and there is an election in the future. There are alot of people who buy cars who realize how much more they are paying in Canada than in the US. The internet has changed the landscape.

Thanks for your response. Having to wait another two weeks just before Christmas is terrible. Shame on you, Minister Cannon. Get new bureaucrats who work for Canadians, not against them.


mdbuffy - thanks for your excellent analysis! I guess TC's position is like many within the Canadian governmental system - they have to create regulations and disharmony in order to justify their existence (and salaries!). This is another good example!

[SeeWhy2]

Check out tirerack:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=X-Ice

Also this rfd thread about tirerack:

http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=498864

yep that's where i got mine.. with rims too!

Thanks to both!

[Kamloops]

Crap Crap Crap!!!!! man I just cant get over this! I cant understand how BMW can get away with this, what is stopping others from doing this. I just send in an FOI request to Transport Canada to get anything related to this new procedure~!



Please contact an authorized Canadian BMW or MINI Retailer to request a letter of admissibility,
and for information regarding the exact nature and costs of modifications required. The
modifications vary by model and may be expensive. ALL modifications MUST be
performed by an authorized Canadian BMW or MINI Retailer and must be completed before a
recall clearance letter can be issued by BMW Group Canada.
Prior to reviewing your request for a letter of admissibility, the following information must be
provided:
- Model
- Model year
- 17-digit Vehicle Identification
Number (VIN)

An official letter of admissibility from BMW Group Canada must be presented to a Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) officer at
time of importation the following information must be provided:
- Model
- Model year
- 17-digit Vehicle Identification
Number (VIN)
An official letter of admissibility from BMW Group Canada must be presented to a Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) officer at
time of importation. In addition, the official recall clearance letter obtained from BMW Group Canada once the required retrofits
have been completed and documented by an authorized Canadian BMW or Mini Retailer, must be presented to the Registrar
of Imported Vehicles in order to properly register a vehicle.

[paul_lee]

yep that's where i got mine.. with rims too!

What size of tires did you get? 225/60/R16?
What rim did you get? I check the web size, but it seems to me that they don't have 16" steel rim for Outback.

Thanks

[Jay-c]

What size of tires did you get? 225/60/R16?
What rim did you get? I check the web size, but it seems to me that they don't have 16" steel rim for Outback.

Thanks

255/55/17 with alloy rims.. can't remember the name of the rims, they were on clearout for $89/each and they look wicked!! I think the tires were 112 or 122 each.. somewhere around there

[paul_lee]

255/55/17 with alloy rims.. can't remember the name of the rims, they were on clearout for $89/each and they look wicked!! I think the tires were 112 or 122 each.. somewhere around there

Thanks Jay-c.

[GougingCarCartelGroup]

Lost Horizon, Dotcalamitie, I thank you for your comments gentlemen. It's enlightening.

I test drove the 535xi sedan during the annual BMW test-drive event in June and fell in love with it, to a point that I want to lease one as my next car in 2008. The "love" is slowly wearing-off though due to BMW Canada's stance on making life difficult for other owners. I would rather loose the car than support a "car nazi"! :mad:

Don't give in !
They are counting on people with money to just throw it at them...

Might as well go with a different brand, i was going to get 2 BMW's, but decided that they can f...-off. The only way they would get my money is if they lowered the 335 to 45K and the 328 to 37K. This won't happen from the **** gougers anytime soon, sooooo............

Instead i'm leaning towards the Audi A4 2009? model year which should come out perhaps in August next year. The new A4 is a lot better looking than that crap A4 they have now.

[accorder]

According to Reuters article, acura is up 22.9%, not down 22.9%.

Honda division sales were down 6.4 percent to 11,464 units. While its Acura division posted a 22.9 percent increase with sales of 2,212 units. (Reporting by Cameron French; Editing by Rob Wilson)

thanks for pointing out. this is corrected. http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6035107&postcount=10469

[postdotcom]

I'm going to pick up my truck this Friday in Ohio. Already faxed the MSO. Reading from some web sites saying the Detroit US custom is difficult to find or access. Anyone had experience exporting car through Detroit? Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

[LoveRFD]

What size of tires did you get? 225/60/R16?
What rim did you get? I check the web size, but it seems to me that they don't have 16" steel rim for Outback.

Thanks

You can get cheap steel rims from Costco. around 38 bucks each.

[netdog999]

To anyone who is uncertain where to direct your anger over this immobilizer issue, please read the minutes of the first consultation session regarding the proposed amendment which took place this monday Dec 3. Our members prepared minutes under at "http://www.carswithoutborders.com/consults-on-changes-to-regulation-114/". It summarizes the positions that various stakeholders took during consulations that took place last week regarding the proposed amendment. By and large, most stakeholder groups supported the proposed amendment including consumer groups, aftermarket groups, insurance companies, and most provinces. The only group that was resoundingly opposed to it and in favour of the status quo were the auto manufacturers and their associations.

TC is not immune to criticism over this issue as this situation certainly could've been prevented but what is clear is that they've recognized that the introduction of CMVSS114 has had unintended consequences and by means of this proposed amendment and a shortened consulatation period (15 days instead of 60) they have demonstrated their resolve to correct it.

This one amendment will not fix all of the problems with the current process but with your support it will become law and correct perhaps the biggest problem that most of us are currently faced with and allow us to purchase and register these vehicles.

The full text of the proposed amendment is at http://canadagazette.gc.ca/partI/2007/20071201/html/regle14-e.html (http://canadagazette.gc.ca/partI/2007/20071201/html/regle14-e.html)

Please register your support for this amendment to the following coordinates:

Daniel B. T. Davis
Chief
Regulations and Standards
Road Safety and Motor Vehicle Regulation Directorate
Transport Canada
330 Sparks Street, 8th Floor, Tower C
Ottawa, Ontario
K1A 0N5
Telephone: 613-998-1956
Fax: 613-990-2913
Email: davisda@tc.gc.ca

netdog

[st7860]

To anyone who is uncertain where to direct your anger over this immobilizer issue, please read the minutes of the first consultation session regarding the proposed amendment which took place this monday Dec 3. Our members prepared minutes under at "http://www.carswithoutborders.com/consults-on-changes-to-regulation-114/". It summarizes the positions that various stakeholders took during consulations that took place last week regarding the proposed amendment. By and large, most stakeholder groups supported the proposed amendment including consumer groups, aftermarket groups, insurance companies, and most provinces. The only group that was resoundingly opposed to it and in favour of the status quo were the auto manufacturers and their associations.

TC is not immune to criticism over this issue as this situation certainly could've been prevented but what is clear is that they've recognized that the introduction of CMVSS114 has had unintended consequences and by means of this proposed amendment and a shortened consulatation period (15 days instead of 60) they have demonstrated their resolve to correct it.

This one amendment will not fix all of the problems with the current process but with your support it will become law and correct perhaps the biggest problem that most of us are currently faced with and allow us to purchase and register these vehicles.

The full text of the proposed amendment is at http://canadagazette.gc.ca/partI/2007/20071201/html/regle14-e.html (http://canadagazette.gc.ca/partI/2007/20071201/html/regle14-e.html)

Please register your support for this amendment to the following coordinates:

Daniel B. T. Davis
Chief
Regulations and Standards
Road Safety and Motor Vehicle Regulation Directorate
Transport Canada
330 Sparks Street, 8th Floor, Tower C
Ottawa, Ontario
K1A 0N5
Telephone: 613-998-1956
Fax: 613-990-2913
Email: Davisdatc.gc.ca

netdog


you got the email address wrong. the corrected address is: davisda@tc.gc.ca

[netdog999]

you got the email address wrong. the corrected address is: davisda@tc.gc.ca

Thanks, I've now corrected it ...

[thegradas]

buy from tirerack and have them shipped in Canada or to CBI (www.cbiusa.com) and pick them up from there.


Where did you buy the x-ices? I was hoping COSTCO as they have the rebate but don't see them on the website. Crappy Tire does carry them but no rebate :cry:
TIA,

[ac328]

ALERT to prospective Subaru purchasers:

Just got a voicemail from a US SUbaru dealer who says Subaru of America is about to withdraw warranty coverage for Canadians on US-sourced SUbarus, starting with sales on or after January 3, 2008.

I will be calling her in a moment and will report back with details. SoA just faxed a bulletin through apparently....

I was holding off, I am now about to go ahead with a purchase of an Outback turbo to beat the deadline. Was going to go with Infiniti G35 but with duty it ended up being too much $$$.

More to come....

[tfpltk]

"Insiders", please confirm.

[thelefteyeguy]

ALERT to prospective Subaru purchasers:

Just got a voicemail from a US SUbaru dealer who says Subaru of America is about to withdraw warranty coverage for Canadians on US-sourced SUbarus, starting with sales on or after January 3, 2008.

I will be calling her in a moment and will report back with details. SoA just faxed a bulletin through apparently....

I was holding off, I am now about to go ahead with a purchase of an Outback turbo to beat the deadline. Was going to go with Infiniti G35 but with duty it ended up being too much $$$.

More to come....

wow that sucks....

Lucky I have my warranty in writing from SOA

[paul_lee]

You can get cheap steel rims from Costco. around 38 bucks each.

I check with them as well, but they don't have 16" ones here in Ottawa.

[etam]

you got the email address wrong. the corrected address is: davisda@tc.gc.ca

If you care, write an email to him.... I just got a reply from him:

Thank you for your positive comments regarding the proposed regulation to amend section 12 of the Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations (MVSR) to clarify the requirements for the importation of vehicles. Please be assured that we are working as quickly as possible on this amendment but we must respect the consultation process, which provides all Canadians the opportunity to comment. After the 15-day comment period we will be completing a comment assessment, which will be followed by a Part II Canada Gazette publication of the final regulatory requirements.

[netdog999]

you got the email address wrong. the corrected address is: davisda@tc.gc.ca

Thanks, I've now corrected it ...

[ac328]

ALERT to prospective Subaru purchasers:

Just got a voicemail from a US SUbaru dealer who says Subaru of America is about to withdraw warranty coverage for Canadians on US-sourced SUbarus, starting with sales on or after January 3, 2008.

I will be calling her in a moment and will report back with details. SoA just faxed a bulletin through apparently....

I was holding off, I am now about to go ahead with a purchase of an Outback turbo to beat the deadline. Was going to go with Infiniti G35 but with duty it ended up being too much $$$.

More to come....

OK, so the voicemail was misleading. Here's the deal:

1) Warranty coverage will still continue as before, i.e. on reimbursement basis
2) Subaru of America is now withdrawing ALL incentives to dealers for Canadian sales, as well as all compensation to salespeople in respect of sales to Canadians.

Bottom line according to her is that it will be tough to find a salesperson willing to sell new on or after January 3, 2008. How true that really is, who knows...

However, warranty coverage continues as before (which she stated in the voicemail was going to end??).

I have offered US$29,000 even for a Outback 2.5XT manual.

[p110232]

Don't give in !
They are counting on people with money to just throw it at them...

Might as well go with a different brand, i was going to get 2 BMW's, but decided that they can f...-off. The only way they would get my money is if they lowered the 335 to 45K and the 328 to 37K. This won't happen from the **** gougers anytime soon, sooooo............

Instead i'm leaning towards the Audi A4 2009? model year which should come out perhaps in August next year. The new A4 is a lot better looking than that crap A4 they have now.

I agree. Thanks for the reminder.

Re: the A4, it's a nice car with a great interior. How do you plan on getting one from the States? The new MB C300 is also worth a second look.

[jac_3232]

ALERT to prospective Subaru purchasers:

Just got a voicemail from a US SUbaru dealer who says Subaru of America is about to withdraw warranty coverage for Canadians on US-sourced SUbarus, starting with sales on or after January 3, 2008.

I will be calling her in a moment and will report back with details. SoA just faxed a bulletin through apparently....

I was holding off, I am now about to go ahead with a purchase of an Outback turbo to beat the deadline. Was going to go with Infiniti G35 but with duty it ended up being too much $$$.

More to come....

I had a Michigan Subaru dealer on Saturday tell me he just received an email from headquarters saying no more sales to Canadians beginning Jan 2008. I thought he was BS’ing me to try and rush a sale. I thought Karl would have said something if it was true.

[cordarone]

The buying window for Canadians will be closing on Jan.3:

http://discountsubaru.com/index.asp?PageAction=Custom&ID=12

... "Therefore, effective January 3, 2008, any vehicle sales made by U.S. dealers outside of SOA�s AOR (area of responsibility), which includes the continental U.S., are discouraged. This includes exports or sales to Canada or any other country without the express written consent of SOA.

Further, vehicle sales made by U.S. dealers to individuals or organizations residing outside of the continental United States will no longer be eligible for any Subaru of America incentive payment/programs such as vehicle incentives, ascent program payouts, quarterly/monthly dealer sales volume bonuses, Chairman�s Roundtable awards, etc. "

[p110232]

OK, so the voicemail was misleading. Here's the deal:

1) Warranty coverage will still continue as before, i.e. on reimbursement basis
2) Subaru of America is now withdrawing ALL incentives to dealers for Canadian sales, as well as all compensation to salespeople in respect of sales to Canadians.

Bottom line according to her is that it will be tough to find a salesperson willing to sell new on or after January 3, 2008. How true that really is, who knows...

However, warranty coverage continues as before (which she stated in the voicemail was going to end??).

I have offered US$29,000 even for a Outback 2.5XT manual.

Karl, Zach, Xan, your comments please...

With incentives being pulled-out for Canadian sales, why would someone bother selling to Canadians?... is the sale counted towards to someone's volume quota but he/she won't get commission?

[ac328]

I had a Michigan Subaru dealer on Saturday tell me he just received an email from headquarters saying no more sales to Canadians beginning Jan 2008. I thought he was BS’ing me to try and rush a sale. I thought Karl would have said something if it was true.

See my post above. Warranty continues, ALL factory to dealer and salesperson incentives are DOA as of Jan 3. Apparently 50% of salesperson commission comes direct from SoA, so after Jan 3 a sale to a Canadian cuts down on her take-home pay.

Salesperson said this meant most dealers would be reluctant to sell to Canadians, so pretty much bye-bye to new sales.

PS Salesperson is Zach's colleague Rebecca Ellingsworth, very straight shooter, recommended (until Jan 3) for anyone in Western Canada. Am mulling an off from her now on the Outback 2.5 XT.

[p110232]

See my post above. Warranty continues, ALL factory to dealer and salesperson incentives are DOA as of Jan 3. Apparently 50% of salesperson commission comes direct from SoA, so after Jan 3 a sale to a Canadian cuts down on her take-home pay.

Salesperson said this meant most dealers would be reluctant to sell to Canadians, so pretty much bye-bye to new sales.

PS Salesperson is Zach's colleague Rebecca Ellingsworth, very straight shooter, recommended (until Jan 3) for anyone in Western Canada. Am mulling an off from her now on the Outback 2.5 XT.

Good for you ac328. Grab that 2.5 XT as quickly as you can.

[tiger_a_k]

I found a dealer in portland, and he will sell me a new RX350.
But the problem is that he wants full payments in 2 weeks advance.
He gave me a reference to some "happy buyers" but I still think it is risky.
Is there a method to find out if he is reliable or if he is trying scam?

[giaotze]

I found a dealer in portland, and he will sell me a new RX350.
But the problem is that he wants full payments in 2 weeks advance.
He gave me a reference to some "happy buyers" but I still think it is risky.
Is there a method to find out if he is reliable or if he is trying scam?
Don't do it my bro, don't do it.

[giaotze]

The buying window for Canadians will be closing on Jan.3:

http://discountsubaru.com/index.asp?PageAction=Custom&ID=12

... "Therefore, effective January 3, 2008, any vehicle sales made by U.S. dealers outside of SOA�s AOR (area of responsibility), which includes the continental U.S., are discouraged. This includes exports or sales to Canada or any other country without the express written consent of SOA.

Further, vehicle sales made by U.S. dealers to individuals or organizations residing outside of the continental United States will no longer be eligible for any Subaru of America incentive payment/programs such as vehicle incentives, ascent program payouts, quarterly/monthly dealer sales volume bonuses, Chairman�s Roundtable awards, etc. "

I just asked Karl... He said that no more rebate.. that's all. They can still sell to CNDian..

[LoDown]

The real answer. By the time the car gets to the border it will have a good number of miles on it. You are now buying a USED car. I would say, you can even buy from your friend for $25,000. Definitely, whatever you do, do not add in the tax and other fees (tax on tax is not warranted) - trust my experience, it is not called for and is common sense. Some warning you here are simply injecting their fear into you - with no actual experience.



I have my friend bought a new car for me from the dealer. Then he will sell it to me as a used car.
This is what he payed.
car+destination 25,900
state tax 1,619
lic.+doc. 250
-----------------------
total 27,769

What number should I put on the Bill of Sale? use 25900+1619 or something like 26500 or maybe even lower? I don't want get trouble at Canadian border. Can somebody having the experience answer this question? Do they(officer at the boarder) ask for the proof for the price like the document from the dealer or the receipt when you wired the money?

Thanks a lot.

[LoDown]

YES, YOU CAN STILL BUY SUBARU's AFTER 3 Jan 08.

Do not rush into buying if you are not ready. Sales to Canadians will continue unabated after 3 Jan 08. The only thing is that you lose the incentives which are on average $1000-$1500. On a 30,000 car every 1% increase in CAN/US exchange rate equals approx. $300. So if the exchange rate goes up 5% - you get back the $1500 discount you lost. The prediction is still out there - 1 CAN$ = 1.11 USD$ sometime next year.

[thegradas]

also GST 5% instead of 6%



YES, YOU CAN STILL BUY SUBARU's AFTER 3 Jan 08.

Do not rush into buying if you are not ready. Sales to Canadians will continue unabated after 3 Jan 08. The only thing is that you lose the incentives which are on average $1000-$1500. On a 30,000 car every 1% increase in CAN/US exchange rate equals approx. $300. So if the exchange rate goes up 5% - you get back the $1500 discount you lost. The prediction is still out there - 1 CAN$ = 1.11 USD$ sometime next year.

[eastsidesubaru]

YES, YOU CAN STILL BUY SUBARU's AFTER 3 Jan 08.

Do not rush into buying if you are not ready. Sales to Canadians will continue unabated after 3 Jan 08. The only thing is that you lose the incentives which are on average $1000-$1500. On a 30,000 car every 1% increase in CAN/US exchange rate equals approx. $300. So if the exchange rate goes up 5% - you get back the $1500 discount you lost. The prediction is still out there - 1 CAN$ = 1.11 USD$ sometime next year.

This is not necessarily true. Not only will you lose the incentives(not neccesarily a big deal), but the dealers are losing the incentives(definitely a big deal... that is basically the reason that we do such big discounts). From what I am reading so far, it looks like I won't be able to do the same kind of pricing after Jan 3rd. Disappointing.. >:(

[Monsieurmaggot]

Just to get things accurate here - I was in the business (GM dealer) for 13 yrs, and thats 7 yrs ago. At that time, a $2000 gross profit was not the norm, in fact, would have been wonderful if you could get it but it didn't happen much. I did not sell @ MSRP.

Canadian dealers MUCH higher markup? Perhaps markup (diff between MSRP and invoice) but again, I don't know many guys who can get MSRP in their sales. More like you're getting about a $800 to $1500 gross, depending upon the car/truck, if you're lucky. G5's - anywhere from $300 to $800 over cost.

Imagine stocking a $70000 truck (lots of them nowadays), paying interest on it while it sits waiting to sell, getting a $1500 gross, paying expenses, lights, electricity, heating, fixed costs, interest, and salesperson commission from that. Almost like computer retailers.

I'm not endearing anyone to the dealers, lets just be accurate in our discussion. GM sells more in CA than they do in all of Canada. And, I was told that the warranty costs are up to 50% higher here. Again, I'm not for the current pricing structure - I was around in 97-2000 when curbers were grabbing CDN cars/trucks/parts and shipping them South for HUGE profits.

Manufacturers got themselves into one he77 of a pickle by raising Cdn prices, so when the dollar got to parity, you know the rest.

I appreciate your input on this since that's the whole idea behind the forum discussion. I was under the impression that automobile dealers got vehicles from the manufacturer on consignment and that no actual cash changes hands until the sale completes.

[zircon]

I'm going to pick up my truck this Friday in Ohio. Already faxed the MSO. Reading from some web sites saying the Detroit US custom is difficult to find or access. Anyone had experience exporting car through Detroit? Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

It is on Fort Street directly below the Ambassador Bridge. Fort is mainly used by Trucks. If you are going west, go under the bridge and about half a block west of the Bridge you will see a fenced off area that I believe says 'US Customs' or something like that - it wil be on your right (north side of the road). You enter there and follow the pack of people or ask the guard posted in a squad car which office to go into. Should only take 5 minutes. Better to go during the day, but it is open 24-7. good luck

[zircon]

You can get cheap steel rims from Costco. around 38 bucks each.

16" at Costco are more like 60.

[eastsidesubaru]

See my post above. Warranty continues, ALL factory to dealer and salesperson incentives are DOA as of Jan 3. Apparently 50% of salesperson commission comes direct from SoA, so after Jan 3 a sale to a Canadian cuts down on her take-home pay.

Salesperson said this meant most dealers would be reluctant to sell to Canadians, so pretty much bye-bye to new sales.

PS Salesperson is Zach's colleague Rebecca Ellingsworth, very straight shooter, recommended (until Jan 3) for anyone in Western Canada. Am mulling an off from her now on the Outback 2.5 XT.

Yep... I work with Becca here. We will still sell to Canadians - we just won't be able to do the same kind of pricing after Jan 3rd.

I appreciate your input on this since that's the whole idea behind the forum discussion. I was under the impression that automobile dealers got vehicles from the manufacturer on consignment and that no actual cash changes hands until the sale completes.

Nope... We have huge flooring costs. Basically, all the vehicles on our lot are financed.

[p110232]

This is not necessarily true. Not only will you lose the incentives(not neccesarily a big deal), but the dealers are losing the incentives(definitely a big deal... that is basically the reason that we do such big discounts). From what I am reading so far, it looks like I won't be able to do the same kind of pricing after Jan 3rd. Disappointing.. >:(

Very disappointing indeed. Thanks for clarifying Zach.

To the folks sitting on the fence, unless you're waiting for your leases to end, you might want to act now.

[zircon]

I found a dealer in portland, and he will sell me a new RX350.
But the problem is that he wants full payments in 2 weeks advance.
He gave me a reference to some "happy buyers" but I still think it is risky.
Is there a method to find out if he is reliable or if he is trying scam?

you're crazy to be announcing this on here before you buy the vehicle. Lexus will put the hammer down on the dealer.

[Monsieurmaggot]

My Subaru Insider provided me a copy of the Subaru corporate letter that went out to all the US retailers. I suspect it was a compromise to appease SCI.

Here's EXACTLY what it says (I will try to post the .pdf)

Dear Subaru Retailers;

It has come to our attention that a growing number of dealers are conducting an increasing amount of sales outside the United States. Although your dealer agreement does not expressly prohibit such activity, SOA has consistently stressed the importance of dealers concentrating on selling within their area of responsibility (AOR). This is the market area that Subaru dealers are measured against, and sales into your AOR represent the best opportunity to build a loyal owner base to fuel long term sales, service business and dealer profitability.

SOA's marketing investment is geared toward building the units in operation here in the United States to provide that opportunity for loyalty, profitability and long term growth.

Therefore, effective January 3, 2008, any vehicle sales made by U.S. dealers outside of SOA's AOR, which includes the continental U.S., are discouraged. This includes exports or sales to Canada or any other country without the express written consent of SOA.
Further, vehicle sales made by U.S. dealers to individuals or organizations residing outside of the continental United States will no longer be eligible for any Subaru of America incentive payment/programs such as vehicle incentives, ascent program payouts, quarterly/monthly dealer sales volume bonuses, Chairman's Roundtable awards, etc. Should any vehicle sales be made outside of the United States, these sales must be classified as “X” type sales in the Subaru sales reporting system.

Thank you for your cooperation in this matter.

Sincerely,

Tomohiko Ikeda
Chairman, President, and CEO
Subaru of America, Inc.



Thomas J. Doll
Executive Vice President & CFO
Subaru of America, Inc.

The last paragraph irks me. It essentially says that while sales to Canadians will be permitted to continue, the dealer will not get any credit on the sale which essentially means the sale wouldn't be included in their monthly sales figures or incentive goals.

Essentially I'm reading that the dealership won't be motivated to sell you a car since there's very little in it for them. Is that a hammer I see dropping? The door closing? Strike while the iron is hot. The ship leaving dock? (You get my drift).

I think a letter writing campaign to Mr. Ikea and Mr. Barbie are in order.

[ac328]

Very disappointing indeed. Thanks for clarifying Zach.

To the folks sitting on the fence, unless you're waiting for your leases to end, you might want to act now.

I have months to go on a lease and I still did it. I figure since I will be owning the car buying it a bit early is no big deal, especially given the loss of incentives on Jan 3. For now I will still drive my lease car (a BMW X3). I was considering getting a used BMW but BMW got all arrogant, so screw them.

Even with the new SUbaru Canada incentives the car I will be getting is still about 9,000 cheaper than if bought here in Calgary (including tax). Buyers outside Alberta save even more when PST is factored in.

Sooo...here's my deal from Eastside Subaru:

2.5XT manual, with floor mats, XM radio (according to XM's website, this should work fine in Canada), rear dome light (should be standard IMHO, but whatever), and armrest extension.

Paid under invoice, but more than the dealer's price w/ dealer holdback. A fair deal.

Hopefully down the road I can find a way to have the electronic displays in metric...

[ac328]

The real answer. By the time the car gets to the border it will have a good number of miles on it. You are now buying a USED car. I would say, you can even buy from your friend for $25,000. Definitely, whatever you do, do not add in the tax and other fees (tax on tax is not warranted) - trust my experience, it is not called for and is common sense. Some warning you here are simply injecting their fear into you - with no actual experience.

Are you sure about that? According to the CBSA (border services) website, the CBSA counts sales tax as part of the value on which it calculates duty. "Duty" for their purposes includes GST, and customs duties.

Put another way it uses the total price you paid, including tax, to be the value on which it assesses GST and duty (if any).

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/pub/bsf5056-eng.html

Please correct me if I am wrong.

[flatman]

Are you sure about that? According to the CBSA (border services) website, the CBSA counts sales tax as part of the value on which it calculates duty. "Duty" for their purposes includes GST, and customs duties.

Put another way it uses the total price you paid, including tax, to be the value on which it assesses GST and duty (if any).

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/pub/bsf5056-eng.html

Please correct me if I am wrong.


You are right ac. Duty and PST/gst are calculated on total cost including state taxes paid. That's right, a tax on a tax!

[ac328]

You are right ac. Duty and PST/gst are calculated on total cost including state taxes paid. That's right, a tax on a tax!

Yeah, it sucks. Other stupid examples include charging GST on the A/C excise tax (5/6% on $100, not a huge deal, but still), and charging GST on non-NAFTA duty (that can add up).

Not sure if they charge GST on the new gas guzzler taxes.

[ecgz88]

It's wierd Subaru is the only manufacturer clearly allow warranty effective both in Canada/US.............now they have this new policy to discourage US dealer sell to Canadian

[orion747]

This is not necessarily true. Not only will you lose the incentives(not neccesarily a big deal), but the dealers are losing the incentives(definitely a big deal... that is basically the reason that we do such big discounts). From what I am reading so far, it looks like I won't be able to do the same kind of pricing after Jan 3rd. Disappointing.. >:(

Can you give us an idea as to how much this affects pricing, either in dollars or % terms? I was under the impression there were no cash rebates in effect for the 08 Tribecas anyways.

[ac328]

Can you give us an idea as to how much this affects pricing, either in dollars or % terms? I was under the impression there were no cash rebates in effect for the 08 Tribecas anyways.

Why don't you try Car Cost Canada?

For the US prices I subscribed to Consumer Reports' New Car Buying Kit, gives you a good idea of invoices and dealer holdbacks.

[GougingCarCartelGroup]

I agree. Thanks for the reminder.

Re: the A4, it's a nice car with a great interior. How do you plan on getting one from the States? The new MB C300 is also worth a second look.


I got someone in Illinois that could get it. Problem is that i'd have to pay their tax, plus duty, plus gst/pst. But still worth it if i save a combined 15K+

I've looked at the new C300 and drove one, wow, very nice indeed, in my opinion it is a better value purchase than the BMW, might still not drive like a BMW, but the styling, and inside of the C300 are better than that of the BMW IMO. It feels like you get a ton of standard features that youd' have to pay extra for in the BMW.

[GregGH]

I got someone in Illinois that could get it. Problem is that i'd have to pay their tax, plus duty, plus gst/pst.......

Not al states are like Illinois.... see http://www.carburner.com for a partial list of states ( looking for more input on this wiki ... )

If you have transported you should avoid tax -- but best way to avoid double tax -- buy from NEW YORK state dealer ... or PA ... or KY .... or

Greg

[mpsrent]

I believe the Tribeca rebate is $7,000 for the regular 5 pass model and $8,000 for the 7 pass with NAV if you opt not to take Subaru finance options.

http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/071204-5.htm

December 4, 2007

Subaru Canada to give any future price reductions to December purchasers


Mississauga, Ontario - Subaru Canada Inc. has announced its Subaru Price Commitment, providing peace of mind for consumers purchasing 2008 Subaru vehicles in December. Effective immediately, Subaru Canada will protect the transaction value on all purchases in the month of December 2007 until March 1, 2008.

In addition, Subaru is offering leasing and financing from 0.5 per cent for 24 months on approved credit, along with stackable cash credits of up to $2,000. For consumers who choose not to use the Subaru-supported lease or finance programs, a cash credit of up to $8,000 is available from Subaru dealers.

"This is our way of passing the advantage of a strong Canadian dollar along to our customers," said Katsuhiro Yokoyama, president and CEO of Subaru Canada. "In fact, we're going even further with this commitment. If we are able to offer a national program between now and March 1st which is better than the current December program, Subaru will write a cheque for the difference to anyone who purchases a Subaru in December."

[bluemule999]

Thank you for your electronic correspondence of November 29, 2007 to the Competition Bureau (the "Bureau") concerning restrictions on importing cars from the U.S. and the difference in car prices between Canada and the U.S.

The Bureau is responsible for enforcing the Competition Act (the "Act"). The purpose of the Act is to maintain and encourage competition in Canada in order to promote economic efficiency in the Canadian economy and to provide consumers with competitive prices and product choices. As a statute of general application, it does not attempt to regulate individual transactions between buyers and sellers. Rather, the Act seeks to develop and maintain the conditions necessary for a competitive marketplace by defining a number of anti-competitive practices. Some of these practices are prohibited as criminal offences. Other practices, perceived to be potentially but not necessarily anti-competitive, are subject to review and remedial action by the Competition Tribunal (the"Tribunal"). The Act does not provide the Bureau with any regulatory authority to decide the law or to compel entities to adopt a particular course of conduct in respect of their activities.

Businesses are generally free to set their own prices, at whatever levels the market will bear. High prices or higher prices in one place than another, in and of themselves, are not contrary to the Act. High prices are a concern when they are the result of anti-competitive conduct subject to the Act.

The Act recognizes that suppliers should be free to determine how best to distribute their products. Market restriction, where a supplier requires its authorized dealers to sell only within a specific geographic area, is generally permissible. Pursuant to section 77 of the Act, the Tribunal can prohibit market restriction where it is likely to substantially lessen competition in a market as a whole. In this case, the practice only restricts imports of the manufacturer's own vehicles and does not restrict competition among the relatively large number of vehicle manufacturers in the overall market. Therefore, the market restriction is unlikely to result in a substantial lessening of competition in the market as a whole.

The conspiracy provision, section 45 of the Competition Act, prohibits agreements among competitors that unduly lessen competition, such as price fixing arrangements. However, high prices or higher prices in one place than another are not, in and of themselves, evidence of an agreement, particularly when there are plausible alternative explanations. The case law surrounding section 45 makes it clear that the practice of firms simply following their competitors' initiatives does not constitute a conspiracy offence. In any event, the section does not apply to the unilateral conduct of individual firms or to arrangements among related companies. Furthermore, supply arrangements used to establish a distribution network, such as the agreements that suppliers typically have with their franchised dealers, are not something that would be viewed as a conspiracy. Agreements among competitors who sell competing brands are far more likely to constitute a conspiracy offence than arrangements involving businesses that all deal in the same brands of a product, especially when they face strong competition from other brands in a market.

Accordingly, this matter does not warrant further examination.

It should be noted, in any event, that the Act only applies to conduct in Canada, and so may not apply to arrangements that suppliers have with their dealers in the U.S.

In your attached correspondence, you also raise an issue regarding NAFTA. You may wish to contact the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade at enqserv@dfait-maeci.gc.ca or 1-800-267-8376 regarding this matter.

Thank you for bringing your concerns to our attention.

Christopher Broadbent
Téléphone / Tel (819) 953-8558
Télécopieur / Fax (819) 953-8546
broadbent.christopher@cb-bc.gc.ca
Bureau de la concurrence | 50, rue Victoria Gatineau (Québec) K1A 0C9
Competition Bureau | 50 Victoria St. Gatineau, Quebec K1A 0C9
Gouvernement du Canada | Government of Canada
www.cb-bc.gc.ca

[ziploc]

I'm going to pick up my truck this Friday in Ohio. Already faxed the MSO. Reading from some web sites saying the Detroit US custom is difficult to find or access. Anyone had experience exporting car through Detroit? Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

Check on carburner.com....they even have a google sat map of US Customs at Ambassador Bridge

[dotcalamitie]

I had an interesting discussion tonight with my brother about BMW...as his 545 is coming up for lease return. He wants an X5. The problem with the X5 from the US is that BMW Canada wants to extract about $4,000 for letters and conversion costs (flipping the switch on the computer). Which is extortion. We were looking at bringing one in from the US...but it appears to be too costly. After some discussion we came to the same conclusion I did....pick up one of these cheap Tribeca's from the US and drive that until the market settles down. I think the Audi price drop is the beginning...if you were planning on buying an Audi, you're going to sit on your hands until the price drops some more now. Economic theory says that is supposed to happen...people won't buy today if they expect the price to be lower tomorrow. The car industry may be in for a real shakedown now.

[can2000]

Thanks to MM for starting the thread, all those who blazed the trail before me, LostHorizon, as well as Zach & Becca at Eastside Subaru.

The only real glitch I had to do with BC Provincial Inspection. It is required in BC for a new vehicle according to BC’s Ministry of Transportation. Post 5899 & several Ontario posts led me to believe it wasn’t required in BC. (I called the number on RIV’s “Important notice for British Columbia residents” link, and they confirmed BC provincial exam is required in addition to the Federal one.) So CT got another $110.79 out of me.



Does Quebec require QC Provincial Inspection as well?

Thanks

[can2000]

My Subaru Canada delership treats me like a customer. Gives me a free hand wash coupon with every oil change.

They affix the next service sticker on windshield in miles. I like the new Imprezza hatchback. I might buy it in Canada.

However, I haven't had any warranty work to be done yet.

Would you mind to share (or PM) the name of the dealership?

Thanks

[eastsidesubaru]

Can you give us an idea as to how much this affects pricing, either in dollars or % terms? I was under the impression there were no cash rebates in effect for the 08 Tribecas anyways.

How much.. Well..
Let's look at an outback 2.5i for example.
currently.. invoice is 23,745.. Lets say I did 150 under, $23,595 - minus $1500 rebate - your price is $22,095.

after this change, I will probably price this car at 25,745 (about 500 over US MSRP) and there will be no rebate from subaru so... your price would be $25,745. Thats a price hike of $3650 for canadian buyers versus US buyers.
Compare that to the canadian 2.5i (which does not have heated seats but is otherwise... fairly similar I think) at around $31... It now has $4000 in rebate if you are a cash customer bring it down to 27. US price is still cheaper but the gap is certainly a lot less on that particular model.

[GoogleFish]

Thank you for your electronic correspondence of November 29, 2007 to the Competition Bureau (the "Bureau") concerning restrictions on importing cars from the U.S. and the difference in car prices between Canada and the U.S.

The Bureau is responsible for enforcing the Competition Act (the "Act"). The purpose of the Act is to maintain and encourage competition in Canada in order to promote economic efficiency in the Canadian economy and to provide consumers with competitive prices and product choices. As a statute of general application, it does not attempt to regulate individual transactions between buyers and sellers. Rather, the Act seeks to develop and maintain the conditions necessary for a competitive marketplace by defining a number of anti-competitive practices. Some of these practices are prohibited as criminal offences. Other practices, perceived to be potentially but not necessarily anti-competitive, are subject to review and remedial action by the Competition Tribunal (the"Tribunal"). The Act does not provide the Bureau with any regulatory authority to decide the law or to compel entities to adopt a particular course of conduct in respect of their activities.

Businesses are generally free to set their own prices, at whatever levels the market will bear. High prices or higher prices in one place than another, in and of themselves, are not contrary to the Act. High prices are a concern when they are the result of anti-competitive conduct subject to the Act.

The Act recognizes that suppliers should be free to determine how best to distribute their products. Market restriction, where a supplier requires its authorized dealers to sell only within a specific geographic area, is generally permissible. Pursuant to section 77 of the Act, the Tribunal can prohibit market restriction where it is likely to substantially lessen competition in a market as a whole. In this case, the practice only restricts imports of the manufacturer's own vehicles and does not restrict competition among the relatively large number of vehicle manufacturers in the overall market. Therefore, the market restriction is unlikely to result in a substantial lessening of competition in the market as a whole.

The conspiracy provision, section 45 of the Competition Act, prohibits agreements among competitors that unduly lessen competition, such as price fixing arrangements. However, high prices or higher prices in one place than another are not, in and of themselves, evidence of an agreement, particularly when there are plausible alternative explanations. The case law surrounding section 45 makes it clear that the practice of firms simply following their competitors' initiatives does not constitute a conspiracy offence. In any event, the section does not apply to the unilateral conduct of individual firms or to arrangements among related companies. Furthermore, supply arrangements used to establish a distribution network, such as the agreements that suppliers typically have with their franchised dealers, are not something that would be viewed as a conspiracy. Agreements among competitors who sell competing brands are far more likely to constitute a conspiracy offence than arrangements involving businesses that all deal in the same brands of a product, especially when they face strong competition from other brands in a market.

Accordingly, this matter does not warrant further examination.

It should be noted, in any event, that the Act only applies to conduct in Canada, and so may not apply to arrangements that suppliers have with their dealers in the U.S.

In your attached correspondence, you also raise an issue regarding NAFTA. You may wish to contact the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade at enqserv@dfait-maeci.gc.ca or 1-800-267-8376 regarding this matter.

Thank you for bringing your concerns to our attention.

Christopher Broadbent
Téléphone / Tel (819) 953-8558
Télécopieur / Fax (819) 953-8546
broadbent.christopher@cb-bc.gc.ca
Bureau de la concurrence | 50, rue Victoria Gatineau (Québec) K1A 0C9
Competition Bureau | 50 Victoria St. Gatineau, Quebec K1A 0C9
Gouvernement du Canada | Government of Canada
www.cb-bc.gc.ca


Basically explains why the Competition Act has no teeth. Like to know how many successful prosecutions they have had since it's inception.

[jrvic]

I don't think there is only 1500-2000 gross profit per vehicle. There are complicated systems of manufacturer rebates behind the scene that even sales reps don't see. This is true for just about every industry that wanted to hide the real cost of goods. You have to be a financial analyst working for the company in order to understand them.

Just to get things accurate here - I was in the business (GM dealer) for 13 yrs, and thats 7 yrs ago. At that time, a $2000 gross profit was not the norm, in fact, would have been wonderful if you could get it but it didn't happen much. I did not sell @ MSRP.

Canadian dealers MUCH higher markup? Perhaps markup (diff between MSRP and invoice) but again, I don't know many guys who can get MSRP in their sales. More like you're getting about a $800 to $1500 gross, depending upon the car/truck, if you're lucky. G5's - anywhere from $300 to $800 over cost.

Imagine stocking a $70000 truck (lots of them nowadays), paying interest on it while it sits waiting to sell, getting a $1500 gross, paying expenses, lights, electricity, heating, fixed costs, interest, and salesperson commission from that. Almost like computer retailers.

I'm not endearing anyone to the dealers, lets just be accurate in our discussion. GM sells more in CA than they do in all of Canada. And, I was told that the warranty costs are up to 50% higher here. Again, I'm not for the current pricing structure - I was around in 97-2000 when curbers were grabbing CDN cars/trucks/parts and shipping them South for HUGE profits.

Manufacturers got themselves into one he77 of a pickle by raising Cdn prices, so when the dollar got to parity, you know the rest.

[mdbuffy]

What a great county...high taxes to pay for people to write letters like you received from the Competition Bureau.

IN THE US: the automakers have to be more careful what they are doing...the Subaru letter to its us dealers on the carswithoutborders site is very carefully written.

from Robert Bissett post www.carswithoutborders.com (Has any Canadian on this Forum been denied the ability to purchase a motor vehicle from a US dealer? If you have mdbuffy778@yahoo.com or rbissett@mts.net)


http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/contact/newcase.htm

as follows:

Antitrust Laws and You
How to File a Complaint
How to Contact Us
Confidentiality Policy and Privacy Policy
Leniency Policies

——————————————————————————–

Antitrust Laws and You

Many consumers have never heard of antitrust laws, but when these laws are effectively and responsibly enforced, they can save consumers millions and even billions of dollars a year in illegal overcharges. Most states have antitrust laws, and so does the federal government. Essentially, these laws prohibit business practices that unreasonably deprive consumers of the benefits of competition, resulting in higher prices for inferior products and services.

There are three major federal antitrust laws: the Sherman Antitrust Act, the Clayton Act, and the Federal Trade Commission Act. The following information on these laws comes from the Antitrust Enforcement and the Consumer guide.

Sherman Antitrust Act
This Act expresses our national commitment to a free market economy in which competition free from private and governmental restraints leads to the best results for consumers. This Act outlaws all contracts, combinations, and conspiracies that unreasonably restrain interstate and foreign trade. This includes agreements among competitors to fix prices, rig bids, and allocate customers, which usually are punishable as criminal felonies.

The Sherman Act also makes it a crime to monopolize any part of interstate commerce. An unlawful monopoly exists when only one firm controls the market for a product or service, and it has obtained that market power, not because its product or service is superior to others, but by suppressing competition with anticompetitive conduct.

The Act, however, is not violated simply when one firm’s vigorous competition and lower prices take sales from its less efficient competitors; in that case, competition is working properly.





Thank you for your electronic correspondence of November 29, 2007 to the Competition Bureau (the "Bureau") concerning restrictions on importing cars from the U.S. and the difference in car prices between Canada and the U.S.

The Bureau is responsible for enforcing the Competition Act (the "Act"). The purpose of the Act is to maintain and encourage competition in Canada in order to promote economic efficiency in the Canadian economy and to provide consumers with competitive prices and product choices. As a statute of general application, it does not attempt to regulate individual transactions between buyers and sellers. Rather, the Act seeks to develop and maintain the conditions necessary for a competitive marketplace by defining a number of anti-competitive practices. Some of these practices are prohibited as criminal offences. Other practices, perceived to be potentially but not necessarily anti-competitive, are subject to review and remedial action by the Competition Tribunal (the"Tribunal"). The Act does not provide the Bureau with any regulatory authority to decide the law or to compel entities to adopt a particular course of conduct in respect of their activities.

Businesses are generally free to set their own prices, at whatever levels the market will bear. High prices or higher prices in one place than another, in and of themselves, are not contrary to the Act. High prices are a concern when they are the result of anti-competitive conduct subject to the Act.

The Act recognizes that suppliers should be free to determine how best to distribute their products. Market restriction, where a supplier requires its authorized dealers to sell only within a specific geographic area, is generally permissible. Pursuant to section 77 of the Act, the Tribunal can prohibit market restriction where it is likely to substantially lessen competition in a market as a whole. In this case, the practice only restricts imports of the manufacturer's own vehicles and does not restrict competition among the relatively large number of vehicle manufacturers in the overall market. Therefore, the market restriction is unlikely to result in a substantial lessening of competition in the market as a whole.

The conspiracy provision, section 45 of the Competition Act, prohibits agreements among competitors that unduly lessen competition, such as price fixing arrangements. However, high prices or higher prices in one place than another are not, in and of themselves, evidence of an agreement, particularly when there are plausible alternative explanations. The case law surrounding section 45 makes it clear that the practice of firms simply following their competitors' initiatives does not constitute a conspiracy offence. In any event, the section does not apply to the unilateral conduct of individual firms or to arrangements among related companies. Furthermore, supply arrangements used to establish a distribution network, such as the agreements that suppliers typically have with their franchised dealers, are not something that would be viewed as a conspiracy. Agreements among competitors who sell competing brands are far more likely to constitute a conspiracy offence than arrangements involving businesses that all deal in the same brands of a product, especially when they face strong competition from other brands in a market.

Accordingly, this matter does not warrant further examination.

It should be noted, in any event, that the Act only applies to conduct in Canada, and so may not apply to arrangements that suppliers have with their dealers in the U.S.

In your attached correspondence, you also raise an issue regarding NAFTA. You may wish to contact the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade at enqserv@dfait-maeci.gc.ca or 1-800-267-8376 regarding this matter.

Thank you for bringing your concerns to our attention.

Christopher Broadbent
Téléphone / Tel (819) 953-8558
Télécopieur / Fax (819) 953-8546
broadbent.christopher@cb-bc.gc.ca
Bureau de la concurrence | 50, rue Victoria Gatineau (Québec) K1A 0C9
Competition Bureau | 50 Victoria St. Gatineau, Quebec K1A 0C9
Gouvernement du Canada | Government of Canada
www.cb-bc.gc.ca

[jwstewart]

How much.. Well..
Let's look at an outback 2.5i for example.
currently.. invoice is 23,745.. Lets say I did 150 under, $23,595 - minus $1500 rebate - your price is $22,095.

after this change, I will probably price this car at 25,745 (about 500 over US MSRP) and there will be no rebate from subaru so... your price would be $25,745. Thats a price hike of $3650 for canadian buyers versus US buyers.

I understand why the 1500 rebate disappeared, but why did you go from charging slightly lower than invoice to slightly higher than MSRP ?

[jcl4]

I understand why the 1500 rebate disappeared, but why did you go from charging slightly lower than invoice to slightly higher than MSRP ?

I think that is because SOA no longer gives incentive and holdback to the dealer for selling this car( since it's to a Canadian). which eliminates the holdback, so the new holdback price for the dealer is actually the invoice price. Mrsp - Invoice = the amount that the dealer is going to get for this sales? Also without incentives they are less willing to sell to Canadian because it will not help them hit any of the sales goals. I believe there is still some bargain room between mrsp and invoice, but I don't think they would go much lower than Mrsp since they don't get holdback or incentives.

Actually I am not sure if they don't get both or jsut one of them. But I am pretty sure This is why Zach said it was suppose to be that price.

[shopper-X]

I understand why the 1500 rebate disappeared, but why did you go from charging slightly lower than invoice to slightly higher than MSRP ?

There will be no incentive for the dealer to sell to Canadians. The sale will not count for any bonuses, awards, volume rebates, etc. Basically it will be a good will sale and dealers could charge what they want because they will make nothing. I'm not saying all dealers will get greedy but some will.

[mdbuffy]

www.carswithoutborders.com

These are the guys that need to make a decision to let the CWB cars in...

Send them a quick e-mail My humble suggestion...."I am a Canadian who supports your allowing the immediate approval for importation of the vehicles of www.carswithoutborders.com owners. Transport Canada has had five years to harmonize regulations. Why has that not happened? It has cost Canadians billions and resulted in older and less green cars on our roads."

The Honourable Rona Ambrose, M.P. Ambrose. Rparl.gc.ca

The Honourable John Baird, P.C., President of the Treasury Board Baird. Jparl.gc.ca

The Honourable Maxime Bernier, P.C., Minister of Industry and Minister of Foreign Affairs Bernier.Mparl.gc.ca

The Honourable Lawrence Cannon, M.P., Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities Cannon.Lparl.gc.ca

The Honourable David Emerson, P.C., Minister of International Trade Emerson.Dparl.gc.ca

The Honourable James Flaherty, P.C., Minister of Finance Flaherty.Jparl.gc.ca

Mr. Steven Fletcher, M.P. Fletcher.Sparl.gc.ca

The Right Honourable Stephen Harper, Prime Minister of Canada Harper.Sparl.gc.ca

The Honourable Robert Nicholson, P.C., Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada Nicholson.Rparl.gc.ca

The Honourable Bev Oda, MP

The Honourable Jim Prentice, M.P., Minister of Industry Prentice. Jparl.gc.ca

The Honourable Charles Strahl, M.P., Deputy Speaker Strahl.Cparl.gc.ca

The Honourable Vic Toews, P.C., President of the Treasury Board Toews.Vparl.gc.ca

The Honourable Peter Van Loan M.P., President of the Queen's Privy Council VanLoan.Pparl.gc.ca

The Honourable Gordon O'Connor, M.P., Minister of National Revenue OconnGparl.gc.ca

The Honourable Christian Paradis, Secretary of State (Agriculture) ParadCparl.gc.ca

The Honourable Jay Hill, Chief Government Whip HillJparl.gc.ca

The Honourable Senator Marjory LeBreton, Secretary of State (Seniors) lebremsen.parl.gc.ca

The Honourable Peter MacKay, Minister of National Defence MackaPparl.gc.ca

[Trexim]

the Subaru corporate letter
It has come to our attention that a growing number of dealers are conducting an increasing amount of sales outside the United States.

So, they have increased their sale, now stop that (????)

sales into your AOR represent the best opportunity to build a loyal owner base to fuel long term sales, service business and dealer profitability.

So it's ok for Van Bortel to sell to ppl in Florida, but not to Canadians in London who are less than 2 hours away????? Does that make any sense?

[scouzi]

There will be no incentive for the dealer to sell to Canadians. The sale will not count for any bonuses, awards, volume rebates, etc. Basically it will be a good will sale and dealers could charge what they want because they will make nothing. I'm not saying all dealers will get greedy but some will.

There is no such thing as volume rebates in the car business. Every dealer pays the same price - big or small.

[scouzi]

There is no such thing as volume rebates in the car business. Every dealer pays the same price - big or small.

Ok My bad. I guess you meant volume sales bonuses.

The Subaru also stated that written consent was needed by SOA. What's up with that?

[jcl4]

Hi everyone in this thread.
Some of you may remember I went down to Zach at Eastside to buy a 2008 Foreter 2.5 Sports XT. So here is the story

- Late Oct- express my interest in a 07 wrx wagon, but was told they are hard to find with a AT, so gave up after 2 day of looking
- Early Sep- looked at cars101.com and saw the forester sports and loved it. start getting quotes from different dealers( starting with Zach on RFD pm)
- start to bargain with Zach and Joe at carter Subaru, at last Joe gave me a great deal. But Zach asked his manager and beat the already low price. So Ordered it from Zach.
- Oct 25th- placed deposit of $400 over phone with credit card #s
-Oct 26-Nov 15- Waiting....more Waiting....Waiting
-Nov 16 The car finally arrived!
-Nov 17-24- multiple emails on adding option to the car and what I need when I get there, + plan the trip + make sure hZach have sent the documents to the US border
-Nov 24- booked "Quick Coach" bus ticket online and when down to Seattle DT from YVR. Cost about $35 each( there was 3 of us), maybe more expensive then Greyhound but the bus seem much newer and more comfy. Arrived at around 6.
- Nov 25- rented a car to drive to Eastside Subaru, and saw our car the first time. Test drove it, have a look at all the required documents and left for some shopping at Seattle premium outlet.
- Nov 26- Zach came to the hotel at 830 in he morning to pick us up and drove to the dealer. Have all the paper work done at the dealer, gave them our bank draft to verify it was real. Off we go.
-we arrived at the us border at 2:30( stopped for more shopping and lunch at Bellis Fair), park the car on the side and walk to the export office(not hard to find at all. Went in told the officer we are exporting a car, gave them the required documents and he didn't even look at them and just stamped it. This whole process took less than 30 seconds!
-then at the Canadian side declare we are importing the car and also bought $1000 worth of stuff, told us to park in front of the office, which was already packed with new cars. went in, had to get a number for importing cars. we were #18, and they have just called #4. We waited for almost 3hrs. Finally a officer did our form1 and off we went to pay for the pst and duty.
-Got home and went online to pay for my riv $206. and faxed form 1, recall letter and title to them. Then went on RFD and see people saying ALL FORESTER are now INADMISSIBLE. Panic.
More PANIC. post in dozen of places for helps. PANIC PANIC.
Nov 27- called riv, they say the car is INADMISSIBLE! PANIC
Email Zach about the problem. He can't help with it.
Nov 28- looked into the recall letter. and FOUND THE MFD IS AUG 30!!! Immediately phone riv, bitching about my car was made in AUG why isn't it admissible. They didn't trust me, had them looked into the my files and tell them where the MFD IS located.
Nov 29- at noon I got my FORM 2 in Email and off to Crappytires I went, but they were full, at 4?? even if they closed at 6, told me to come back tomorrow.
Nov 30- went in the morning and finally got it checked, also had to pay hundred something dollar for the BC inspection. But they helped me fax the form 2 to riv, pretty nice. Call insurance person, told me to wait till Monday as more license would be in.
Dec 3- finally picked out my fav # and FINALLY have my car register and insured LEGALLY in BC.

Break-down: It was quite scary when I saw my car on the inadmissible list that night. But other than that everything went smoother than I expected. Would I do it again? With the savings, H3ll ya! Although Subaru Canada does not sell this trim in Canada. I could estimate that I saved myself around $10000. total after extra warranty,tax, protection package, extra accessories and car came under 34000. With the Canadian trim, It would cost us around 48000. Since it is not exactly the same, I only stated my saving to about 10K. I would say I gave a big discount to the Canadian dealer already. lol

A HUGE thanks goes to everyone in this forum, that help me directly and indirectly with my purchase. THANK YOU GUYS. Loving my new Ride
I will post a pic or 2 up later when I have time.

[NAFTAGO]

Hi there,
Finally ready to get the Outback.
I am in Toronto and ready to get a quote from Northtown, West Herr and Van Bortel. (Manchester is too far away)

Wonder if you can help me:

Anybody has the the direct number for Jesse Bestine at Northtown Subaru and

Any person and contact number from West Herr Subaru that you can recommend?

Any other dealers I should consider?
Do you have any tips about getting the best quote?
Looking for Outback 2.5i Limited no accesories.

Thank you very much in advance.
Cheers.

[eastsidesubaru]

I understand why the 1500 rebate disappeared, but why did you go from charging slightly lower than invoice to slightly higher than MSRP ?

It's a long story but basically without the Subaru incentives its not worth it unless the pricing is like in my example. >:(

[Jay-c]

Got a letter in the mail last night from Ministry of Finance - they're doing a review on the PST I paid on the vehicle... I guess a flag went off in their system that I paid PST on a value of $25k CDN for a vehicle that carries a book value in their system of closer to $40k!!! haha I love it!!! I am GLADLY sending them my paperwork!

Either that or I just coincidently fell into their random review pool.. but I'd prefer to think it's because of the price gap!

[Pilsie]

It's a long story but basically without the Subaru incentives its not worth it unless the pricing is like in my example. >:(

Eastside..
You have always been upfront and eager to make sales to Canadians.. why the sudden cloak and dagger response "long story"..
It sounds like maybe you are not giving the best deal possible currently?
Just curious if you are offering the refund of the SAF - Subaru Advertising Fund? I know it is about $500 car?
I still would love to hear why you would have to charge over MSRP.. sounds like you are preparing to gouge us CDN's or you already have been..

[brendonp]

Got a letter in the mail last night from Ministry of Finance - they're doing a review on the PST I paid on the vehicle... I guess a flag went off in their system that I paid PST on a value of $25k CDN for a vehicle that carries a book value in their system of closer to $40k!!! haha I love it!!! I am GLADLY sending them my paperwork!

Either that or I just coincidently fell into their random review pool.. but I'd prefer to think it's because of the price gap!

It's not really random or a flag on the value; the problem is that you most likely did not pay PST on any duties (tax on tax!), if duties where assessed - ie, the 6.1%. I had a nice conversation with one of the folks from the MoF who basically said that they get the PST from the licensing bureau, but don't know if the vehicle was subjected to 6.1 duty, and if it was, if the PST was paid on the duty. If you were subject to duty and didn't pay at your provincial licensing bureau, you'll most likely get a bill for ~$120 (8% of 6.1% of 25k)....

You can check your paperwork from the licensing bureau to see if all the taxes where applied.

Brendon

[davehender]

Thank you for your electronic correspondence of November 29, 2007 to the Competition Bureau (the "Bureau") concerning restrictions on importing cars from the U.S. and the difference in car prices between Canada and the U.S...

The Bureau is responsible for enforcing the Competition Act (the "Act"). The purpose of the Act is to maintain and encourage competition in Canada in order to promote economic efficiency in the Canadian economy and to provide consumers with competitive prices and product choices...

...Thank you for bringing your concerns to our attention.



Wow! No wonder the gas companies are screwing us too! Ineptitude abounds, and big business is making a killing off us because of it. The way it stands I guess anything short of a confession on the part of cartels is going to give them free reign to continue what they're doing. In fairness to the Competition Bureau this does seem to be an international issue involving manufacturers between the US and Canada, but we are supposed to have mechanisms in place under NAFTA to deal with those b@st@rds too (would somebody please wake them up?); at any rate the market will eventually adjust if we keep building momentum as consumers.

Now that the immobilizer issue appears to be at hand I think the problem with auto manufacturers controlling the infamous "recall letters" needs to be addressed. That job (i.e. preparing letters re: recall status) needs to be put in the hands of an impartial group, as the parasites, er, manufacturers are now using those for their own profit too.

[GougingCarCartelGroup]

If the Immobilizer BS is taken care of, then i would love the government to help with the recall letters, which should be provided free of charge.

Another thing 'id like the government to drop is the stinking 6.1 duty on cars, which is just another way for our idiotic government to gouge the consumer.

[baboo]

Dec 3- finally picked out my fav # and FINALLY have my car register and insured LEGALLY in BC.

Congratz man!!...The forester is an awesome choice!!! Nice that you got in just before the door close!!....Enjoy your ride and

POST PIX!!!....:cheesygri

[flatman]

Eastside..
You have always been upfront and eager to make sales to Canadians.. why the sudden cloak and dagger response "long story"..
It sounds like maybe you are not giving the best deal possible currently?
Just curious if you are offering the refund of the SAF - Subaru Advertising Fund? I know it is about $500 car?
I still would love to hear why you would have to charge over MSRP.. sounds like you are preparing to gouge us CDN's or you already have been..

Wow, that's quite a first post! Eastside has saved members of this forum thousands of dollars and I have yet to read a negative post about him by any member of this forum.

Do you believe he has no right to sell a car at a profit? There are plenty of on-line resources to check auto prices. Check it out, get a quote and take it or go elsewhere, your choice.

[rebbeach611]

I was thinkng about importing US subaru since my 2003 impreza has been proved excellent car. I really want another impreza or forest . But 2008 US forester and impreza is not possible to register in canada .ALSO dollar getting lower .and there will be no more incentive for canadian buyer..i have to consider again. Anyway, people who import subaru including incentive when dollar 1.10us is really lucky. i lost chance..

[dynamiteroll]

Eastside..
You have always been upfront and eager to make sales to Canadians.. why the sudden cloak and dagger response "long story"..
It sounds like maybe you are not giving the best deal possible currently?
Just curious if you are offering the refund of the SAF - Subaru Advertising Fund? I know it is about $500 car?
I still would love to hear why you would have to charge over MSRP.. sounds like you are preparing to gouge us CDN's or you already have been..

Your comments are completely uncalled for. Disgraceful.

[orion747]

Eastside..
You have always been upfront and eager to make sales to Canadians.. why the sudden cloak and dagger response "long story"..
It sounds like maybe you are not giving the best deal possible currently?
Just curious if you are offering the refund of the SAF - Subaru Advertising Fund? I know it is about $500 car?
I still would love to hear why you would have to charge over MSRP.. sounds like you are preparing to gouge us CDN's or you already have been..

Way over the line, especially from a 1 poster. Zach has been helpful to many buyers and potential buyers like myself with information and insight, not good deals. Why don't you PM him as to the "long story", he probably doesn't want to broadcast it to all the readers of this thread.

He's out to make a profit too, he's not going to just give away cars... It's not like he's the Red Cross or something. That said, if he can't offer a competitive price, we don't have a real reason to import.

[Dano76]

Wow, that's quite a first post! Eastside has saved members of this forum thousands of dollars and I have yet to read a negative post about him by any member of this forum.

Do you believe he has no right to sell a car at a profit? There are plenty of on-line resources to check auto prices. Check it out, get a quote and take it or go elsewhere, your choice.

I dunno. I too would like Xan to elaborate. That's quite a jump in price. Was planning on a purchase in May 08, but now am starting to wonder.

Karl, can you give us an idea of how your pricing will change in the new year, compared to the info at the buildyourownsubaru site?

[Kamloops]

Quote:
It has come to our attention that a growing number of dealers are conducting an increasing amount of sales outside the United States.

That is nuts! Increased sales should be good. The Canucks that are buying Subies in the USA are not the same people that would buy in Canada. They are doing it because they are wise consumers, they will just buy another Make of car in the USA in this case. They will not buy in Canada.

[hooky]

Quote:
It has come to our attention that a growing number of dealers are conducting an increasing amount of sales outside the United States.

That is nuts! Increased sales should be good. The Canucks that are buying Subies in the USA are not the same people that would buy in Canada. They are doing it because they are wise consumers, they will just buy another Make of car in the USA in this case. They will not buy in Canada.

You hit it on the spot. I cannot afford and will not pay $48k for a car that will cost me $32k for the same car from the US.

Even with the rumoured incentives the cdn dealers giving it is still much cheaper in the US.

[st7860]

Eastside..
You have always been upfront and eager to make sales to Canadians.. why the sudden cloak and dagger response "long story"..
It sounds like maybe you are not giving the best deal possible currently?
Just curious if you are offering the refund of the SAF - Subaru Advertising Fund? I know it is about $500 car?
I still would love to hear why you would have to charge over MSRP.. sounds like you are preparing to gouge us CDN's or you already have been..

+1

[brendonp]

I dunno. I too would like Xan to elaborate. That's quite a jump in price. Was planning on a purchase in May 08, but now am starting to wonder.

Karl, can you give us an idea of how your pricing will change in the new year, compared to the info at the buildyourownsubaru site?

Dano - dealers can sell cars at or below what they paid for the vehicle and still make a profit. It at first sounds a bit funny, but the manufacturer will actually give the dealership some sort of cash after they sell the vehicle; this cash comes under a number of different plans (the "holdback" is a common one) for various reasons probably only known to those inside the business, but does come directly from the manufacturer. Thus a vehicle with an invoice price of 22k could be sold for 20k and could still be a profit to the dealership so long as the manufacturer gives the dealership back at least 2k+ dollars. It appears that SoA is cancelling these programs for sales that are made to Canadians - thus selling a 22k car for 20k is a net loss to the dealership. Continuing with the example, our 22k car lists as 23k (MSRP), but is selling at 20k right now because the manufacture is giving (again, for example) 3k to the dealer - the dealer is thus pocketing $1000 per vehicle. If the cash from the manufacturer is removed, in order to continue to make $1000 per vehicle, the dealer must now charge MSRP....

Naturally the dealer could also elect to make less money on Canadian sales... but why?

Personally, I bought a Mini a few months back and am looking at a LandRover for next spring... there are still deals to be had!

[SeeWhy2]

Quote:
That is nuts! Increased sales should be good. The Canucks that are buying Subies in the USA are not the same people that would buy in Canada. They are doing it because they are wise consumers, they will just buy another Make of car in the USA in this case. They will not buy in Canada.

I agree,
I would have never considered an Outback because I couldn't afford $40+K. Once I found out (thanks again MM :) ) that I could pick one up for under $30 - well the rest is history. Next time if I can't get a Subaru at a decent price I will look at other makes! It only makes sense - never in Canada until they get it right.
Just think about all the people that have viewed this thread and then all the others that they have told. I know between work and family I have probably told this story 500 times. The story will get out and sales will suffer.
my 2 cents,

[paul_lee]

I seem remember that someone posted here said that each person can only import up to 2 cars a year. Is there a limit of how many cars each person can import for personal use in a year? Any official URL?

Thanks

[zircon]

Hi: I don't know whether to jump or not. Was going to wait a year to buy (I have a 04 TSX which is very good) but have banked US$ and don't like the looks of dealers forced not to sell to Canadians.

I am interested in an 08 Legacy GT Limited Sedan, with navigation, arm rest extender and XM. Anyone buy one of these? Price? Problems with these cars?
thanks. I would do it before new years to keep the incentives in place.

[Tender]

Eastside..
You have always been upfront and eager to make sales to Canadians.. why the sudden cloak and dagger response "long story"..
It sounds like maybe you are not giving the best deal possible currently?
Just curious if you are offering the refund of the SAF - Subaru Advertising Fund? I know it is about $500 car?
I still would love to hear why you would have to charge over MSRP.. sounds like you are preparing to gouge us CDN's or you already have been..

+1

-1.

st7860, you made me seriously questioning where you come from. First you attacked Xan from Manchester, now you're joining Pilsie to attack Zach. Are you going to attack Karl as well? What is your problem?

[Philz]

Anyone here buy a frontier from the states? I am looking for a 05 or 06 model, 4x4 crew cab. Is there duty charge on nissan trucks, I think they are built in the US?

Can they be imported into Canada? i am looking to save about 10K
Also any dealers that see to Canadians not too far from the border? Closest maybe?

thanks,
Philip

[jwstewart]

Dano - dealers can sell cars at or below what they paid for the vehicle and still make a profit. It at first sounds a bit funny, but the manufacturer will actually give the dealership some sort of cash after they sell the vehicle; this cash comes under a number of different plans (the "holdback" is a common one) for various reasons probably only known to those inside the business, but does come directly from the manufacturer. Thus a vehicle with an invoice price of 22k could be sold for 20k and could still be a profit to the dealership so long as the manufacturer gives the dealership back at least 2k+ dollars. It appears that SoA is cancelling these programs for sales that are made to Canadians - thus selling a 22k car for 20k is a net loss to the dealership. Continuing with the example, our 22k car lists as 23k (MSRP), but is selling at 20k right now because the manufacture is giving (again, for example) 3k to the dealer - the dealer is thus pocketing $1000 per vehicle. If the cash from the manufacturer is removed, in order to continue to make $1000 per vehicle, the dealer must now charge MSRP....

I understand that the hold-back allows the dealer to charge lower than invoice.

But I was under the impression that Invoice was the actual dealer cost without any rebates, and would be the cost the dealer pays when selling to Canucks. This would result in a price somthing close to MSRP, but I still don't understand how you need to go above MSRP to make it worthwhile.

If this assumption is false, then maybe "Invoice" is just another fictitous feel-good number from the Mfr.

PS: Without know these facts, it's baseless to accuse the sales rep of gouging. In fact, making that accusation could offend them and prevent them from being open about the price mechanism.

[ac328]

Hi: I don't know whether to jump or not. Was going to wait a year to buy (I have a 04 TSX which is very good) but have banked US$ and don't like the looks of dealers forced not to sell to Canadians.

I am interested in an 08 Legacy GT Limited Sedan, with navigation, arm rest extender and XM. Anyone buy one of these? Price? Problems with these cars?
thanks. I would do it before new years to keep the incentives in place.

Here's my take on the Legacy. I was debating between an '08 Legacy and an Outback myself (and an Infiniti G35), and I have now put down a deposit on an '08 Outback 2.5XT turbo 5 spd. manual. The following is based on test drives here in Calgary, plus lots (and lots) of internet research.

Pros:
- Fantastic all wheel drive system, much more sophisticated than the one in my BMW X3
- Average reliability according to Consumer Reports (Outback is above average)
- Very fast acceleration, especially with 5MT
- Quiet on the road
- Great handling
- Very high quality interior (better than my current X3 in many respects)
- Folding back seat
- Bigger brakes than the Outback
- Top rated in crash tests (IIHS and NHTSA)
- Made in NA, so no duty

Cons:
- Drinks a lot of gas from what I've read, especially in the city, and premium only
- Lacks some high-end features (Bluetooth, HID headlamps, e.g.)
- Smallish trunk on the sedan
- Odometer, trip computer, climate control don't display metric (the G35 can display metric via changing the in car computer)

I went with the Outback even though it costs about $2k more because of the cargo room and flexibility, plus it has a much bigger sunroof, and you can get VDC (stability control) with a manual trans. on the Outback, whereas oddly you can't on the Legacy.

I personally would avoid the Nav system, I played with the stock one on my test drive and it is a really average system, and not cheap either at $2k. I bought a Garmin Nuvi 650 from Costco for $350 + GST and it is much better than the stock Subie system, pronounces street names and has a 3D view...

Also you should be able to pick a GT up at 27-28k out the door (before GST), a downright steal compared to an Accord or Camry...I estimate I saved about 9k even with Subaru's new $8k incentive in Canada.

[ac328]

Can anyone who has bought a car in Seattle and driven it back to Calgary please let me know which route you took and what your experiences were like.

I am looking at either crossing via:

1) Blaine WA and coming back via the Rockies (not the safest drive in winter); however the SUbaru dealer can email copies of the documents there apparently making the export process painless. However according to the US CBP website it's only open 8 to 3:30 on weekdays?

OR

2) Eastport ID, meaning I can avoid the Rockies; however the crossing is quite strict on receiving faxes and apparently require a signed MSO front and back? However it appears the export office is open 24/7.

Any help would be much appreciated...

[zircon]

AC...you're a man after my own heart. My tsx is a 6-speed manual. Great car. However, my son just got his licence and doesn't drive a stick. I also looked at the Infiniti G35X and can buy one within 15 miles of where I live in Ontario - I have already talked with the dealer, but I read online accounts where some people reported mileage like 10-13 mpg in the city! On premium. Brutal. Plus my kid and 308 HP probably are not a good combination. So it is off the list. Was offered a Legacy like I listed for 30,300 without negotiating. Never considered the Outback. I am not into a wagon, otherwise your Outback would be my top choice. Basically same car as the Legacy GT.

[james-007]

Can anyone who has bought a car in Seattle and driven it back to Calgary please let me know which route you took and what your experiences were like.

I am looking at either crossing via:

1) Blaine WA and coming back via the Rockies (not the safest drive in winter); however the SUbaru dealer can email copies of the documents there apparently making the export process painless. However according to the US CBP website it's only open 8 to 3:30 on weekdays?

OR

2) Eastport ID, meaning I can avoid the Rockies; however the crossing is quite strict on receiving faxes and apparently require a signed MSO front and back? However it appears the export office is open 24/7.

Any help would be much appreciated...

If you are coming through BC (Lower Mainland) I wouldn't cross Blaine border that'll add extra 2 hours to drive back to Calgary. Cross Sumas (Abbotsford) or Lynden (Aldergrove) border which will put you in Abbotsford. Sumas border is like 2 km from Hwy 1.

[fugazi11]

It's wierd Subaru is the only manufacturer clearly allow warranty effective both in Canada/US.............now they have this new policy to discourage US dealer sell to Canadian

Think Subaru was one of the only ones to willingly sell to Cdn's but I wouldn't say that their warranty offer was anything special. You had to pay for it up front and wait weeks or possibly months for re-imbursement. Lexus has no issues doing warranty work on either side of the border and you get road side assistance.

[MMMM]

Originally Posted by Pilsie
Eastside..
You have always been upfront and eager to make sales to Canadians.. why the sudden cloak and dagger response "long story"..
It sounds like maybe you are not giving the best deal possible currently?
Just curious if you are offering the refund of the SAF - Subaru Advertising Fund? I know it is about $500 car?
I still would love to hear why you would have to charge over MSRP.. sounds like you are preparing to gouge us CDN's or you already have been..

Originally Posted by st7860
+1

st7860, you made me seriously questioning where you come from. First you attacked Xan from Manchester, now you're joining Pilsie to attack Zach. Are you going to attack Karl as well? What is your problem?

Wow, first one dealer is banned and now we are trying to piss off another. Pilsie, pretty harsh. Possibly PM the guy and he might answer your questions.
st7860, I had some spare time and read your 44 contributions to this thread (yes I have too much spare time:cheesygri ). The single biggest being:

i hereby and solemnly declare that this is the 10,000th post in this thread.

furthermore, happy birthday to the thread

lastly, lets all get at least one US car and stick it to the manufacturers.

The wierd thing is you seem to have gone to some effort to get the 10000 post. Have you imported a car? Or are you hanging around here offering amazing quotes like:


if you want to spread knowledge of car importing from the USA to a more wide audience, someone will have to create a facebook group for it.
"Post the hot deals you find here! This forum is not for private sales or self promotion."
I hereby and solemnly declare, +1
and furthermore, RBSX shouldn't be coming on here and charging for doing anything.
many leasing companies will buy a car from you then lease it back to you.
i'd rather buy a made in the US car and save a lot. I doubt those Buy Canada Shills buy all Made in Canada Organic vegetables and livestock. lol.
except for possible warranty issues, why does it matter where you buy it from?
don't feel sorry for the canadian car dealers, thats their problem.
perhaps if they had a reputation for sterling service with happiness, ethics, on time reliable repairs, polite sales staff, etc, people wouldn't mind paying a little bit more buying a car in Canada.
some people just refuse to search thats all, and whine that reading is hard.
i think most people here write at the sub-college level for online purposes, so I dont think its that difficult to read and understand most people's posts.
i think he's shilling for a car dealer
give what?
toyota canada would probably say some nonsense about the local market demands. but then in the US, the toyota prius hybrid has a waiting list, but yet, toyota still sells it for $22,000US, and here, the same car without a waiting list costs $32,000CAD
the duty is around 6.5% if the car was not made in Canada or the USA.

[EL820]

Think Subaru was one of the only ones to willingly sell to Cdn's but I wouldn't say that their warranty offer was anything special. You had to pay for it up front and wait weeks or possibly months for re-imbursement. Lexus has no issues doing warranty work on either side of the border and you get road side assistance.

If I remember correctly, someone reported on this thread that he received re-imbursement from SoA in about 2 weeks. Not bad IMO...

[diigii]

-1.

st7860, you made me seriously questioning where you come from. First you attacked Xan from Manchester, now you're joining Pilsie to attack Zach. Are you going to attack Karl as well? What is your problem?

These people attacking Zach and Xan, have they offered any savings at all? Not even a cent to the numerous new car owners that Zach and Xan have helped saved tens of thousands of dollars. And here are these people accusing them of being gougers and self-promoters. What have you guys done to help save some of the members here? These idiots must be nothing else but bitter Canadian Subaru salespeople who couldn't sell to smart Canadians car buyers.

[etam]

Was offered a Legacy like I listed for 30,300 without negotiating.

~$30k? that's not turbo?

Anyway... I really wonder how negiotable is local Subaru dealer about selling below MSRP now...given
the extra cash incentive from Subaru of Canada

[eipod]

These people attacking Zach and Xan, have they offered any savings at all? Not even a cent to the numerous new car owners that Zach and Xan have helped saved tens of thousands of dollars. And here are these people accusing them of being gougers and self-promoters. What have you guys done to help save some of the members here? These idiots must be nothing else but bitter Canadian Subaru salespeople who couldn't sell to smart Canadians car buyers.

my take exactly..bitter cdn car dealers

[thelefteyeguy]

~$30k? that's not turbo?

Anyway... I really wonder how negiotable is local Subaru dealer about selling below MSRP now...given
the extra cash incentive from Subaru of Canada

with turbo...non turbos limited in the states go for ~23K (Outback 2.5i 25k)

in canada it's diff...i dont care about the price

[zircon]

no, the Legacy GT Limited is a Turbo 2.5L with 5 speed auto. It is loaded except for HIDs and bluetooth (my wife likes hers, but I never use my cell). Why Subie doesn't offer HIDs on these cars is a mystery. They offer HIDs on Tribeca in Canada but not USA. Still not worth price difference.

[accorder]

-1.

st7860, you made me seriously questioning where you come from. First you attacked Xan from Manchester, now you're joining Pilsie to attack Zach. Are you going to attack Karl as well? What is your problem?

st and Pilsie don't appear to come here to seek for help or to provide help. I doubt if they are on Canadian consumers side if they are not some undercover agent to try to cause confusions here.

[Bincent]

I'm not condoning the attacks on the dealers that have helped us all get our new vehicles, but I'm also hesitant to give these car dealers so much credit for saving us tons of money.

These dealers have nothing to do with the thousands of dollars that we're saving from buying from the US. Think about it, they aren't doing anything special to get us an even better deal than their MSRP and regular incentives that they have - since US prices are generally lower, they are actually making more money off Canadians since they know that we're already saving tons of money. So with this knowledge, they are able to charge more than what they would have sold it to a regular US citizen and in typical Canadian fashion, we're "okay" with that. I think that they are making tons of money off of us, but hey, that's okay because those Canadians are already saving thousands just because of how the US/CDA market has priced itself. Dealers that are able to sell to Canadians are just capitalizing off this fact.

Aside from arranging all of the necessary paperwork for export/importation of your vehicle, what else has your dealer done to earn your business?

Some dealers have helped to demystify the entire process, but as a salesperson and even business owner, I'd expect this of them especially if they want my business. If I know that there is a market out there across the border who is used to paying higher prices and all I need to do is figure out how to sell to them by trying to eliminate all of the paperwork, all I need to do is just figure out how to do it once and replicate the process - and bang... there's tons of sales knocking on your door.

So before we hold all of these dealers in such high esteem for saving us tons of dollars, I wanted to share my thoughts that in my opinion that yes many of us have saved tons of money, but I would not attribute it to the dealers/salespeople doing anything special.

All of this praise should be given to all of the people who have shared info on this board and especially Monsieurmaggot who started this thread.

[p110232]

These people attacking Zach and Xan, have they offered any savings at all? Not even a cent to the numerous new car owners that Zach and Xan have helped saved tens of thousands of dollars. And here are these people accusing them of being gougers and self-promoters. What have you guys done to help save some of the members here? These idiots must be nothing else but bitter Canadian Subaru salespeople who couldn't sell to smart Canadians car buyers.

BUSTED!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[whampoa]

my take exactly..bitter cdn car dealers

Or bitter CDN customers who got brainwash and gouge by their CDN dealership. Only if they read RFD earlier, they could have save a tonne.

Now they're trying to validate their overprice purchase by blaming others for their misfortune.

[Bincent]

For all those who have purchased a Subaru, I understand that there is Roadside assistance included within the warranty period. Has anyone already needed to use it (I hope not)...? Regardless, has anyone tried to dial the number that was provided? Is it a long distance number or 1-800 number? Who do they send? Is it CAA?

I'm contemplating on purchasing extended warranty, but if the roadside assistance isn't good in Canada (ie. I can't reach anyone), then it lessens the value of the extended warranty.

[EL820]

I'm not condoning the attacks on the dealers that have helped us all get our new vehicles, but I'm also hesitant to give these car dealers so much credit for saving us tons of money.

These dealers have nothing to do with the thousands of dollars that we're saving from buying from the US. Think about it, they aren't doing anything special to get us an even better deal than their MSRP and regular incentives that they have - since US prices are generally lower, they are actually making more money off Canadians since they know that we're already saving tons of money. So with this knowledge, they are able to charge more than what they would have sold it to a regular US citizen and in typical Canadian fashion, we're "okay" with that. I think that they are making tons of money off of us, but hey, that's okay because those Canadians are already saving thousands just because of how the US/CDA market has priced itself. Dealers that are able to sell to Canadians are just capitalizing off this fact.

Aside from arranging all of the necessary paperwork for export/importation of your vehicle, what else has your dealer done to earn your business?

Some dealers have helped to demystify the entire process, but as a salesperson and even business owner, I'd expect this of them especially if they want my business. If I know that there is a market out there across the border who is used to paying higher prices and all I need to do is figure out how to sell to them by trying to eliminate all of the paperwork, all I need to do is just figure out how to do it once and replicate the process - and bang... there's tons of sales knocking on your door.

So before we hold all of these dealers in such high esteem for saving us tons of dollars, I wanted to share my thoughts that in my opinion that yes many of us have saved tons of money, but I would not attribute it to the dealers/salespeople doing anything special.

Agreed.

Hmmm...I wonder if an US citizen would be paying the same price as us Canadians at a US dealer near the border?

[Symcrapico]

If I remember correctly, someone reported on this thread that he received re-imbursement from SoA in about 2 weeks. Not bad IMO...

That would be me! And better....Last monday ive went to my bank to make the deposit of the cheque. Ive paid 1001$CAD to get my windshield fixed and I got 1049$CAD (1079$US) from SoA. Basically, i got paid for getting my car fixed!

[Vidman]

Can anyone who has bought a car in Seattle and driven it back to Calgary please let me know which route you took and what your experiences were like.

I am looking at either crossing via:

1) Blaine WA and coming back via the Rockies (not the safest drive in winter); however the SUbaru dealer can email copies of the documents there apparently making the export process painless. However according to the US CBP website it's only open 8 to 3:30 on weekdays?

OR

2) Eastport ID, meaning I can avoid the Rockies; however the crossing is quite strict on receiving faxes and apparently require a signed MSO front and back? However it appears the export office is open 24/7.

Any help would be much appreciated...


I did the drive back from Seattle to Calgary about a month ago.
I am not sure about the 'other' WA border crossings, but I believe that not all will allow vehicle exports- Blaine will. Yes they are only open from 8-3:30 Mon-Fri. As long as you hit the US export office by 3:30, you can do the import at Canada Customs any time they are open.

I hear you on the road conditions through BC. On Nov 3 I hit quite a snowstorm through the Rogers Pass. Good thing I was driving my new Subaru :)

[endura]

Anyone here buy a frontier from the states? I am looking for a 05 or 06 model, 4x4 crew cab. Is there duty charge on nissan trucks, I think they are built in the US?

Can they be imported into Canada? i am looking to save about 10K
Also any dealers that see to Canadians not too far from the border? Closest maybe?

thanks,
Philip

I was going to get an 07 crew cab long box but my first choice, ridgeline, got .9%finance/lease so I ended up buying here. the nissan can be imported and it is made in the states, no duty. the price difference on frontiers/titans is huge between canada and the states. on the frontier, I calculated $8K, and about $16K on the titan. you should be able to find one in the mid teens no problem. its a very nice truck, as good as the toyota overpriced tacoma.

[Tender]

...st7860, I had some spare time and read your 44 contributions to this thread ..The wierd thing is you seem to have gone to some effort to get the 10000 post. ..

Well I clearly remember that someone else had that 10,000th post before his declaration! By some mystery his post changed from 10,001 to 10,000. Maybe he deleted one of the earlier posts? Anyway, I don't feel that I trust this person even with his thousands of posts here.

See below (post 9999 to 10005):
Which CT in Montreal southshore is better to inspect the car?

Thanks!


WOW - 10000th post!

i hereby and solemnly declare that this is the 10,000th post in this thread.

furthermore, happy birthday to the thread

lastly, lets all get at least one US car and stick it to the manufacturers.

You just hit the 10,000th post!

You just missed it!:D

Any prize for that? lol

Thanks OP for such a great thread!

You missed it by 1. Happy birthday to the thread!

Edit: Wait, what's going on here? How come you're 10,000 now?

He must have deleted a post to make his the 10,000th.

[whampoa]

Bincent,

I do agree with you to a point. Yes, US dealers are taking advantage of our dollar to increase sales, etc.

However, if you read further on, some dealers take the extra steps in actually helping us by doing the paperwork and bring the MCO to the US custom.

That might not be much to some, but for a dealership in let say Rochester, driving a good two hours to the border multiple by the number of sales that's alot of fuel money.

And also, the smart shoppers among us will always shop and compare price, in here and over the border, before we make our deposit.

I'll say for certainty that if you're buying a vehicle in the US, nobody is purchasing at MSRP.

Most of the time, the purchase price is less than the dealer invoice by factoring in rebates, incentives and so on.

In Canada, good luck in finding the dealer's invoice. And on certain vehicles if you start haggling about the MSRP, they will show you the door.

Believe me it happened to me more than once.

[james-007]

I did the drive back from Seattle to Calgary about a month ago.
I am not sure about the 'other' WA border crossings, but I believe that not all will allow vehicle exports- Blaine will. Yes they are only open from 8-3:30 Mon-Fri. As long as you hit the US export office by 3:30, you can do the import at Canada Customs any time they are open.

I hear you on the road conditions through BC. On Nov 3 I hit quite a snowstorm through the Rogers Pass. Good thing I was driving my new Subaru :)

Aldergrove border does allow export 8-3:30pm. I did it last year and doing it again this weekend. Number to call is 360-354-2183 or Sumas 360-988-2971 It doesn't matter which one of these borders you cross, both will result in about same distance back to Calgary. If you cross Sumas it's very easy to get on the Hwy 1. There are no turn from Sumas to Hwy 1, just through the border crossing and in about 2km Hwy 1 will be there.

[ac328]

AC...you're a man after my own heart. My tsx is a 6-speed manual. Great car. However, my son just got his licence and doesn't drive a stick. I also looked at the Infiniti G35X and can buy one within 15 miles of where I live in Ontario - I have already talked with the dealer, but I read online accounts where some people reported mileage like 10-13 mpg in the city! On premium. Brutal. Plus my kid and 308 HP probably are not a good combination. So it is off the list. Was offered a Legacy like I listed for 30,300 without negotiating. Never considered the Outback. I am not into a wagon, otherwise your Outback would be my top choice. Basically same car as the Legacy GT.

Yeah, I was pretty enthusiastic about the G35X, however it worked out $11k more expensive on the road than the Outback, or $13k more than the 5MT Legacy GT. Just bought a house this year so I didn't want to splurge on the G. Having to pay duty alone adds about $2,400 to the final bill.

Good thing about the G was the odometer and all other displays could be set to metric (kms, celsius, etc.) with the push of a few buttons which I really liked. Also the standard features list was excellent (HIDs, bluetooth, power steering adjustment, memory seats, keyless ignition, etc.), and the powertrain warranty is 6 years and is completely valid in Canada. OTOH Calgary only has one Infiniti dealership (!) and I heard service there isn't great. Plus I would have had to wire up Daytime Running Lights myself to the car or pay someone to do it, which to me is a PITA.

I'm gonna miss the HIDs that my X3 has, when I test drove the Legacy Spec B at night, you could really tell the difference, although the Subie headlights were still not bad. Bluetooth I would have liked but I don't talk on the phone in the car much so not a big deal. Definitely gonna miss the memory seats too, on long road trips when my g/f and I take turns driving it's a huge convenience.

[accorder]

For all those who have purchased a Subaru, I understand that there is Roadside assistance included within the warranty period. Has anyone already needed to use it (I hope not)...? Regardless, has anyone tried to dial the number that was provided? Is it a long distance number or 1-800 number? Who do they send? Is it CAA?

I'm contemplating on purchasing extended warranty, but if the roadside assistance isn't good in Canada (ie. I can't reach anyone), then it lessens the value of the extended warranty.

here is the info from Karl
"Subaru of America is glad to provide you with a 3 year or 36,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty and a 5 year or 60,000 mile powertrain warranty. They also happily give you 3 years or 36,000 miles of roadside assistance. What Subaru of CANADA won't do is administer your claim for you if you have a 2008 or newer Subaru. This means that you will have to go to your local dealer and say "My car was purchased in the US and imported into Canada. I need to have a warranty repair completed on my car." The repair will be completed by your local authorized Subaru dealer. You will be charged WARRANTY RATE for the repair which is less than normal customer pay. Ask your service adviser for two copies of the repair order. You will submit one copy to Subaru of America and keep one for your records. Subaru of America will send you a check for the warranty portion of the repair (ie no oil changes, etc.) in US dollars. What does not require pre payment and reimbursement is the roadside assistance. That is covered immediately.

Part of the package that I give to our Canadian customers is a letter from SOA detailing this along with the address to mail your claim to. One thing that a lot of people are NOT aware of is that the Subaru extended warranty, Subaru Added Security, eliminates the need for this once the original 3/36 is done. AWESOME investment if you're planning on keeping the car for an extended period of time.
"
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6023925&postcount=10301

[shopper-X]

here is the info from Karl
"Subaru of America is glad to provide you with a 3 year or 36,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty and a 5 year or 60,000 mile powertrain warranty. They also happily give you 3 years or 36,000 miles of roadside assistance. What Subaru of CANADA won't do is administer your claim for you if you have a 2008 or newer Subaru. This means that you will have to go to your local dealer and say "My car was purchased in the US and imported into Canada. I need to have a warranty repair completed on my car." The repair will be completed by your local authorized Subaru dealer. You will be charged WARRANTY RATE for the repair which is less than normal customer pay. Ask your service adviser for two copies of the repair order. You will submit one copy to Subaru of America and keep one for your records. Subaru of America will send you a check for the warranty portion of the repair (ie no oil changes, etc.) in US dollars. What does not require pre payment and reimbursement is the roadside assistance. That is covered immediately.

Part of the package that I give to our Canadian customers is a letter from SOA detailing this along with the address to mail your claim to. One thing that a lot of people are NOT aware of is that the Subaru extended warranty, Subaru Added Security, eliminates the need for this once the original 3/36 is done. AWESOME investment if you're planning on keeping the car for an extended period of time.
"
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6023925&postcount=10301


Does SCI cover the roadside assistance? I was under the impression they will not cover it in Canada.

[ac328]

I did the drive back from Seattle to Calgary about a month ago.
I am not sure about the 'other' WA border crossings, but I believe that not all will allow vehicle exports- Blaine will. Yes they are only open from 8-3:30 Mon-Fri. As long as you hit the US export office by 3:30, you can do the import at Canada Customs any time they are open.

I hear you on the road conditions through BC. On Nov 3 I hit quite a snowstorm through the Rogers Pass. Good thing I was driving my new Subaru :)

Thanks Vidman. I am still apprehensive about driving through the Rockies, it was a great drive when I drove to Vancouver (and back) in October for Thanksgiving. However I can imagine it would be white-knuckle driving in winter conditions, especially on all-season tires.

Still thinking about which route I should take...anyone tried going through Idaho?

[baboo]

That would be me! And better....Last monday ive went to my bank to make the deposit of the cheque. Ive paid 1001$CAD to get my windshield fixed and I got 1049$CAD (1079$US) from SoA. Basically, i got paid for getting my car fixed!

nice!!...well...you do have to spend time to drive the car to the dealership...and time=money....;)

[ac328]

Aldergrove border does allow export 8-3:30pm. I did it last year and doing it again this weekend. Number to call is 360-354-2183 or Sumas 360-988-2971 It doesn't matter which one of these borders you cross, both will result in about same distance back to Calgary. If you cross Sumas it's very easy to get on the Hwy 1. There are no turn from Sumas to Hwy 1, just through the border crossing and in about 2km Hwy 1 will be there.

Thanks James. So the processing time will be faster through Aldergrove? I don't see that crossing listed on the CBP website.

[Ventrick]

Does SCI cover the roadside assistance? I was under the impression they will not cover it in Canada.

From Cars101:

"Roadside assistance 3yr/36000 miles by the Cross Country Motor Club at 800 261-2155, break-down, lock-out, flat repair etc "

Went to Cross Country Motor Club website and found:

"Headquartered in Medford, Massachusetts, Cross Country Automotive Services is a leading provider of customer relationship enhancement programs in North America."

Also they do have a Canadian Office:

Sault Ste. Marie Contact Center
475 Pim Street
Sault Ste. Marie, ON P6B2V3 Canada
Phone: 705-946-8242
Fax: 705-946-8347


Sounds like they cover all of N. America, but will leave the final say up to Subaru heh.

[diigii]

Aside from arranging all of the necessary paperwork for export/importation of your vehicle, what else has your dealer done to earn your business?



What have the 2 local Canadian Nissan dealerships I went to, to shop for my car did to make me feel special? Well, in one dealership, I was completely ignored by the entire dealership staff even if I was holding their discount coupon mailed to "preferred customers." I even posted my experience here when I became a member in July. The second dealership I went to appeared to be genuine in his sincerity to give me an "excellent deal that I won't go to another dealership." But after he gave me the textbook insult "what do you think it's worth?" line, I knew that "excellent deal" promise was for his own benefit: an excellent deal for his sales commission! That's when I decided to take the risk of buying in the US.

After johnsa gave me the link to my Maryland dealership, I immediately emailed their internet sales staff and got a prompt response from one of them, including an email of the sales quote, discounts I will be getting and the temp tags they will give me so I can drive the car home. After two weeks, I went down to Maryland and finalized the deal by signing all the paperwork. The sales manager assured me that all the paperwork will be taken care of. In his words to the business manager, "Let's make sure that Mr ******** will have all his paperwork done right, his MSO faxed to US Customs so he will get back to Canada with no hassle." While signing, business manager even told me I have two complimentary oil changes with no date limitations for all cars sold from their dealership, no matter if my car is exported to Canada or sold to out-of-state buyers. When the keys were handed to me, they asked if they could call me to make sure I got back safe and sound. And they did call me the day I told them I'll be in Canada. They even provided me with a free loaner with unlimited miles and no-obligation fuel refill when my rental car was up for return. Will a Canadian dealer provide me with a free rental or complimentary oil changes? Not in a million years! They wouldn't even pick me up from my house to take delivery of the car!

[ChemicalBoy]

Can anyone who has bought a car in Seattle and driven it back to Calgary please let me know which route you took and what your experiences were like.

I am looking at either crossing via:

1) Blaine WA and coming back via the Rockies (not the safest drive in winter); however the SUbaru dealer can email copies of the documents there apparently making the export process painless. However according to the US CBP website it's only open 8 to 3:30 on weekdays?

OR

2) Eastport ID, meaning I can avoid the Rockies; however the crossing is quite strict on receiving faxes and apparently require a signed MSO front and back? However it appears the export office is open 24/7.

Any help would be much appreciated...

It all depends on what you want to do. If you dont want to be strict on time then go through Montana Sweetgrass, they are open 24/7, call them up and ask them if the car is ready to export.

If you have to go through Blaine you will email them anyways to know if its okay. If you do go through Blaine remember its the truck crossing that you have to EXIT on, if you keep going on the I-5 you will go into canada customs not the US one.

Personally I would go to seattle and maybe drive through Spokane and shop stuff maybe even stay a night and then head over to MT and go through sweetgrass, just so there is not time limit.

Btw I would also pick up some snow tires while I am there.

[johnxsi]

Firstly, thanks to this thread I'm picking up an '08 Outback on Friday! :D

However, I'm still getting some confusion about insurance. One Autoplan Broker told me that their Insurance Binder only covers me in BC, and that I have to get insurance for driving in WA. But my dealer is adamant that I can get coverage in BC for this.

Can anyone who's done this into BC let me know what insurer they used please? Thanks!

[1treehill]

to get the plate, what need to be done for a used car more than a new car purchased in US? I think safety test and emmission test, somebody knows what else?

[longdong]

After trying to import unsuccessfully the Honda Odyssey. Today I just imported successfully my new Toyota Sienna 2008 LE .. with mag wheel (of course the manufacture date is august 2008, the custom agent did check the date from the car door), the car is lovely and has exceed my expectation. I think the saving is around 11k...

I did think to buy a Tribeca but insurance costs, repair costs, maintenance costs, gas mileage is too high. So I prefer to buy a Toyota Sienna LE 2008, at least I will have a full warranty in Canada.



Thanks all RFD members to make this thread to the best for the big, big savings ...

[Kamloops]

Firstly, thanks to this thread I'm picking up an '08 Outback on Friday! :D

However, I'm still getting some confusion about insurance. One Autoplan Broker told me that their Insurance Binder only covers me in BC, and that I have to get insurance for driving in WA. But my dealer is adamant that I can get coverage in BC for this.

Can anyone who's done this into BC let me know what insurer they used please? Thanks!

Just go to any autoplan with VIN and tell them you want a 10 day Binder of insurance for the value. You will be good to go. Its insured via ICBC. I have done it and it is good in the USA to bring a car home. The temp permit to drive in home on BC roads is only good in BC. For 25,000 cost me about 80 bucks

[agepag]

So what about buying used? I mean what does the dealership consider used, an 08' model with 1500 miles, like a demo, would a dealer still be able to sell that to a Canadian. With all the BS going on, now with Subaru of America telling dealers that they will not recieve any rebates if theu sell "outside" of there area. I still want my 08 sti, now if the imoblizier issue can be resolved and the dealers are willing to sell me a slightly used 08 sti then we are in buisness!

[J233]

I'm going to pick up my truck this Friday in Ohio. Already faxed the MSO. Reading from some web sites saying the Detroit US custom is difficult to find or access. Anyone had experience exporting car through Detroit? Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

I crossed last Saturday in Detroit. Try to be there before it gets dark – less stressful. It is confusing as you have to drive through a construction site but not bad at all. You may want to follow this route:

Take exit 47B if you are coming form Toledo. I was planning to take 47A but it was closed. No worries. If you take 47B the ramp will take you to an open area –slow down and stay on the right. Look to the left – you should see the toll booths. In front, you should see the bridge. Towards right, like 2 o’clock, you should see two small old buildings. Drive slowly towards them, it’s a gravel road. You will see concrete blocks as you drive. As soon as you get close to these buildings turn left and drive slowly. This road will take you towards an automatic gate. As you drive, you should have the tool booths on the left, behind a fence. Approach the gate. It will open automatically so drive through and turn left, go around the brick building. You will be in a huge open space with some trucks. I turned right and parked by US Customs vehicles – not sure that’s OK but nobody said anything. US Customs are located in the second building, second door.
I spent about 45 minutes there as there was a long line up of truck drivers. The process itself was quick and quite pleasant. I showed them my passport, bill of sale, and original title. I was asked to wait as the officer checked the system and pulled my fax. He spent a couple of minutes on the computer and then handed back my title with the stamp and my passport.
When you done, they will tell you how to get to Canadian side. You will have to wait for someone to open the gate and then you will have to pay a $3.50 bridge toll.
BTW, the first question on the Canadian side was if I stopped at the US Custom side to properly export the vehicle.
Good luck !

[J233]

to get the plate, what need to be done for a used car more than a new car purchased in US? I think safety test and emmission test, somebody knows what else?

In Ontario you need:

1.The RIV part
2.Safety
3.Emission

Don't spend your $$ on #2 and #3 before your are done with #1:)

[6RR]

Just wanted to say thanks to the informative posters in this thread and Zach at Eastside Subaru in Seattle. Brought back an 08 Legacy and saved around 10M easily w/ no hassles whatsoever.

[johnxsi]

Just go to any autoplan with VIN and tell them you want a 10 day Binder of insurance for the value. You will be good to go. Its insured via ICBC. I have done it and it is good in the USA to bring a car home. The temp permit to drive in home on BC roads is only good in BC. For 25,000 cost me about 80 bucks

Awesome, thanks Kamloops!

[Monsieurmaggot]

Just curious if you are offering the refund of the SAF - Subaru Advertising Fund? I know it is about $500 car?

Not being one to ever pass up a deal (that's why I started this thread), what exactly is the SAF? Was there an incentive I wasn't aware of? Gotta wonder if I paid too much for my Subaru? I thought $1100 (plus rebate) off invoice was a good deal but add $500 that's great. With the rebate you could be looking at anything from $1600 (no rebate vehicles) - $4350 ( '07 Tribeca) off invoice.

Most current Subarus would be in the $2000 - $3000 off invoice price range.

Hell I only got $1825 off invoice. I feel ripped off (not!)

When Subaru of America takes those incentives away, paying more than invoice doesn't sound as sweet. At one point, when the dollar hit 1.10, you could pick up a 2008 Subaru LLBean in the US with EVERY conceivable option for $23,000 less than in Canada. After January 3rd, that will be about $7000 cheaper (even when you factor in the Canadian $8000 rebate)

[reddy54]

After trying to import unsuccessfully the Honda Odyssey. Today I just imported successfully my new Toyota Sienna 2008 LE .. with mag wheel (of course the manufacture date is august 2008, the custom agent did check the date from the car door), the car is lovely and has exceed my expectation. I think the saving is around 11k...

I did think to buy a Tribeca but insurance costs, repair costs, maintenance costs, gas mileage is too high. So I prefer to buy a Toyota Sienna LE 2008, at least I will have a full warranty in Canada.



Thanks all RFD members to make this thread to the best for the big, big savings ...

Per consumer reports gas milage on Tribeca and Sienna should be the same.

[james-007]

Thanks James. So the processing time will be faster through Aldergrove? I don't see that crossing listed on the CBP website.


American side is Lynden. Canadian side is Aldergrove. Basically coming back from Seattle you would take "Bellisfair Mall" / "Guide Meridian Road" exit, head straight down Guide Meridian Road for about 17 miles and you'll come to the Aldergrove border crossing.

[COYS]

I have been following this thread for what seems like ages now, and am glad to report that thanks to all of the great advice here and the superb customer service and hospitality from Karl and the rest of the gang at VBS we are now the proud owners of a fantastic '08 3.0 LL Bean Outback.

We drove down Thursday evening and had the good fortune to meet up with Karl at one of the local watering holes. It was fun chatting about all things Subaru (and many other things).

I had a 9am pick up appointment on Friday morning and was done all paperwork by 9.35am. I hit the US customs at about 11.30 or so and had zero trouble at their office...the non-blonde simply took my paperwork, checked her computer, stamped my form and said "goodbye". The Canadian side was fairly painless also, however, I just had this weird feeling that all (there were loads of them around) of the customs officers standing around were just itching for something to do/happen. The only thing that surprised me was that once I was out of the canada custom office, I had to pay a toll to get back into Canada (for some reason I wasn't expecting that). Anyway, I had decided to go to the RIV office myself so I headed straight there. There was no-one ahead of me when I got to the office and was in and out in under 10 minutes (as I was sitting there waiting for my Form 2, the waiting room filled up with about 5 other importers). From there it was a quick drive over to CT on the Queensway for my inspection. This took longer than expected but only because the guy at the service counter wanted to have a chat about everything. Once I got my stamp I was on my way to the MTO at Cloverdale. I was in and out in about 15-20 minutes or so with new plates in hand.

All in all, everything went perfectly. Thanks again to everyone who has contributed their experiences to the thread as the advice has been invaluable. I would be more than happy to provide any other info to anyone who wants to hear it.

[EL820]

Anyone purchased a vehicle from Michigan State? Did you have to pay the 6% State tax? If so, were you able to successfully receive a refund from Michigan Treasury?

The Detriot Ambassador crossing is 24/7, which means I can import it on a Saturday.

Thanks in advance.

[hotshu]

Yahooo, save another couple hundred dollars with the GST rate dropping 1 % next year!

[Lax5]

Anyone here buy a frontier from the states? I am looking for a 05 or 06 model, 4x4 crew cab. Is there duty charge on nissan trucks, I think they are built in the US?

Can they be imported into Canada? i am looking to save about 10K
Also any dealers that see to Canadians not too far from the border? Closest maybe?

thanks,
Philip

I brought a 2006 Frontier NISMO, RWD back from Phoenix last January and love the truck. It was painless. I figure I saved around $6000 at the exchange rate (0.88) last year. I suspect it would be a challenge to save $10 000 on an 05/06, but likely could be done on an '08.

To track down dealerships, go to the Nissan USA website and there is the ability to put in cities and get dealerships within 100 miles. One can then look at the dealership inventory. That should provide you with some idea of what the dealerships have as a starting price.

The one area that I still am not clear about and have heard conflicting opinions, including the dealership I went to locally for the 7000 mile check-up, is the validity of the warranty. The dealership said they would do any warranty work, yet a friend just brought a Rogue back and was told they would not do the work. Hmmmm!!

Any other questions, PM me.

[boci]

Can anyone who has bought a car in Seattle and driven it back to Calgary please let me know which route you took and what your experiences were like.

I am looking at either crossing via:

1) Blaine WA and coming back via the Rockies (not the safest drive in winter); however the SUbaru dealer can email copies of the documents there apparently making the export process painless. However according to the US CBP website it's only open 8 to 3:30 on weekdays?

OR

2) Eastport ID, meaning I can avoid the Rockies; however the crossing is quite strict on receiving faxes and apparently require a signed MSO front and back? However it appears the export office is open 24/7.

Any help would be much appreciated...

I went trough Eastport ID ( Seattle-Spokane-Eastport-Calgary), yes they require singed title front and back, faxed to Whitlash. They are open for export 24/7. Not busy at all there, took less than 15 min for everything. Road is very good,but suspect that there might be some snow-ice on it now but most likely not as much as on the Rockies.

[bluemule999]

I have a black 08 Legacy GT Limited Sedan, without navigation & XM. Wonderful car. Fantastic car and especially at the current price. Do not wait!

Hi: I don't know whether to jump or not. Was going to wait a year to buy (I have a 04 TSX which is very good) but have banked US$ and don't like the looks of dealers forced not to sell to Canadians.

I am interested in an 08 Legacy GT Limited Sedan, with navigation, arm rest extender and XM. Anyone buy one of these? Price? Problems with these cars?
thanks. I would do it before new years to keep the incentives in place.

[scouzi]

Not being one to ever pass up a deal (that's why I started this thread), what exactly is the SAF? Was there an incentive I wasn't aware of? Gotta wonder if I paid too much for my Subaru? I thought $1100 (plus rebate) off invoice was a good deal but add $500 that's great. With the rebate you could be looking at anything from $1600 (no rebate vehicles) - $4350 ( '07 Tribeca) off invoice.

Most current Subarus would be in the $2000 - $3000 off invoice price range.

Hell I only got $1825 off invoice. I feel ripped off (not!)

When Subaru of America takes those incentives away, paying more than invoice doesn't sound as sweet. At one point, when the dollar hit 1.10, you could pick up a 2008 Subaru LLBean in the US with EVERY conceivable option for $23,000 less than in Canada. After January 3rd, that will be about $7000 cheaper (even when you factor in the Canadian $8000 rebate)

Seems that SOA has chosen to get in the gouging Canadians game also. Buyers will save less but the difference is significant enough to still do it. More profit for dealers and SOA.

I thinks Canadians should simply boycott buying cars altogether until they run theirs to the ground.

[mdbuffy]

From C McClelland:
http://www.carswithoutborders.com/about/#comment-265

Here’s an excerpt of an e-mail sent to Dan Davis Transport
Canada on December 4th. I suggest all of us consider the proposed wording and the potential loopholes that still exist for manufacturers to exploit.

As an aside, Tom S, where did you buy your 2500HD SLT?
That’s what I’m looking for, and if the price closely mirrors
the US price, would like to contact the dealer.

Thanks for the great website, and lets continue to keep the
pressure on!

I have read the proposed amendments and have concerns with
regards to Subsection 4.1 (b) “unless the manufacturer has indicated in writing that the vehicle cannot be fitted with an immobilization system.”

I believe the presence of this language will allow manufacturers to continue to use this issue to frustrate the import of their vehicles to Canada. I do not subscribe to the manufacturer’s logic that the vehicles’ safety could be compromised. The installation of an aftermarket immobilizer by a qualified installer should be sufficient to accomplish the goals of the amendment.

The manufacturer(s) have a vested interest in trying to frustrate any imports of cars from USA to Canada, due to significant pricing differential between the USA and Canada. Additionally, (and I have direct correspondence from GM to this effect) GM Canada is attempting to further frustrate consumers by stating that warranties on GM vehicles purchased in the US and imported into Canada are not valid for 6 months or 12,000km after a vehicle has been put into service.

In some cases, this applies to vehicles that are built in Canada!

Rather than adjust Canadian prices to be in line with their equivalent US counterparts, GM is using unfair (and I believe illegal) tactics to gouge consumers. If they are willing to use these tactics, rest assured they will exploit the presence of the above wording, too.

Given the language outlined above, a Manufacturer could simply declare that the vehicle cannot be outfitted with an immobilization system. There is no burden of proof required by the Manufacturer, nor a reasonableness test on behalf of the Manufacturer.

In this regard, for these reasons I implore Transport Canada to strongly consider omitting the words in Subsection 4.1 (b) “unless the manufacturer has indicated in writing that the vehicle cannot be fitted with an immobilization system.”

The deletion of this wording will not adversely affect the intent of the amendments.

E-mail addresss of the decision makers:

From mdbuffy -
http://www.carswithoutborders.com/about/#comment-274

Great letter. You may wish to send this to the following people who have the ability to allow these vehicles to be imported and licensed this week, particularly the Treasury Board.

The Honourable Rona Ambrose, M.P. Ambrose.
Rparl.gc.ca

The Honourable John Baird, P.C., President of the Treasury Board Baird.Jparl.gc.ca

The Honourable Maxime Bernier, P.C., Minister of Industry and Minister of Foreign Affairs
Bernier.Mparl.gc.ca

The Honourable Lawrence Cannon, M.P., Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities
Cannon.Lparl.gc.ca

The Honourable David Emerson, P.C., Minister of International Trade Emerson.Dparl.gc.ca

The Honourable James Flaherty, P.C., Minister of Finance
Flaherty.Jparl.gc.ca

Mr. Steven Fletcher, M.P.
Fletcher.Sparl.gc.ca

The Right Honourable Stephen Harper, Prime Minister of Canada
Harper.Sparl.gc.ca

The Honourable Robert Nicholson, P.C., Minister of Justice and
Attorney General of Canada
Nicholson.Rparl.gc.ca

The Honourable Bev Oda, MP
Oda.Bparl.gc.ca

The Honourable Jim Prentice, M.P., Minister of Industry
Prentice.Jparl.gc.ca

The Honourable Charles Strahl, M.P., Deputy Speaker
Strahl.Cparl.gc.ca

The Honourable Vic Toews, P.C., President of the Treasury Board Toews.Vparl.gc.ca

The Honourable Peter Van Loan M.P., President of the Queen’s Privy Council VanLoan.Pparl.gc.ca

The Honourable Gordon O’Connor, M.P., Minister of National Revenue OconnGparl.gc.ca

The Honourable Christian Paradis, Secretary of State (Agriculture) ParadCparl.gc.ca

The Honourable Jay Hill, Chief Government Whip
HillJparl.gc.ca

The Honourable Senator Marjory LeBreton, Secretary of State (Seniors) lebremsen.parl.gc.ca

The Honourable Peter MacKay, Minister of National Defence
MackaPparl.gc.ca

[bluemule999]

I do not understand why people are being so negative towards those that have done nothing but help. I negociated with Xan and other dealers. I knew the Canadian MSRP and invoice (carcostcanada) prices. I also had the USA MSRP, Invoice, and TMV (Edmunds) for sales in New Hampshire. The price I agreed to was fair, below all the above values, and what I believe a US citizen would have paid. Why such negativity? I wish my fellow Canadians would invest the time and effort to direct their anger and frustration towards the CDN Gov and others that are the problem and not the people trying to be part of the solution.

I'm not condoning the attacks on the dealers that have helped us all get our new vehicles, but I'm also hesitant to give these car dealers so much credit for saving us tons of money.

These dealers have nothing to do with the thousands of dollars that we're saving from buying from the US. Think about it, they aren't doing anything special to get us an even better deal than their MSRP and regular incentives that they have - since US prices are generally lower, they are actually making more money off Canadians since they know that we're already saving tons of money. So with this knowledge, they are able to charge more than what they would have sold it to a regular US citizen and in typical Canadian fashion, we're "okay" with that. I think that they are making tons of money off of us, but hey, that's okay because those Canadians are already saving thousands just because of how the US/CDA market has priced itself. Dealers that are able to sell to Canadians are just capitalizing off this fact.

Aside from arranging all of the necessary paperwork for export/importation of your vehicle, what else has your dealer done to earn your business?

Some dealers have helped to demystify the entire process, but as a salesperson and even business owner, I'd expect this of them especially if they want my business. If I know that there is a market out there across the border who is used to paying higher prices and all I need to do is figure out how to sell to them by trying to eliminate all of the paperwork, all I need to do is just figure out how to do it once and replicate the process - and bang... there's tons of sales knocking on your door.

So before we hold all of these dealers in such high esteem for saving us tons of dollars, I wanted to share my thoughts that in my opinion that yes many of us have saved tons of money, but I would not attribute it to the dealers/salespeople doing anything special.

All of this praise should be given to all of the people who have shared info on this board and especially Monsieurmaggot who started this thread.

[Trexim]

How much.. Well..
Let's look at an outback 2.5i for example.
currently.. invoice is 23,745.. Lets say I did 150 under, $23,595 - minus $1500 rebate - your price is $22,095.

after this change, I will probably price this car at 25,745 (about 500 over US MSRP) and there will be no rebate from subaru so... your price would be $25,745. Thats a price hike of $3650 for canadian buyers versus US buyers.
Compare that to the canadian 2.5i (which does not have heated seats but is otherwise... fairly similar I think) at around $31... It now has $4000 in rebate if you are a cash customer bring it down to 27. US price is still cheaper but the gap is certainly a lot less on that particular model.

No disrespect, Zach, but honestly, if that's the Outback 2.5i price, I'd rather buy the Accord here in Canada instead.

Gouged buy Honda Canada or gouged by Subaru of America ... same crap, pick your poison ...

[GregGH]

Anyone purchased a vehicle from Michigan State? Did you have to pay the 6% State tax? If so, were you able to successfully receive a refund from Michigan Treasury?

The Detriot Ambassador crossing is 24/7, which means I can import it on a Saturday.

Thanks in advance.

I have been told BOTH you can get it ---and I have an e-mail back ( think I posted that on www.carburner.com ) that you can't ....and the e-mail was from the Michigan tax dept.

I have a dealer that will DRIVE the car to the Cdn side ---and I avoid MI tax -- tell you better in a week ...:-)

One dealer said I can have car transported ( but that too is a cost I didn't need).

Yes--I had them read www.carburner.com -- so they are also an expert

Greg

[zircon]

I have been told BOTH you can get it ---and I have an e-mail back ( think I posted that on www.carburner.com ) that you can't ....and the e-mail was from the Michigan tax dept.

I have a dealer that will DRIVE the car to the Cdn side ---and I avoid MI tax -- tell you better in a week ...:-)

One dealer said I can have car transported ( but that too is a cost I didn't need).

Yes--I had them read www.carburner.com -- so they are also an expert

Greg

Infiniti dealer I spoke with in Michigan said they would take it to the border, thus no sales tax in the state. I think Subie dealers do the same thing.

[EL820]

I have been told BOTH you can get it ---and I have an e-mail back ( think I posted that on www.carburner.com ) that you can't ....and the e-mail was from the Michigan tax dept.

I have a dealer that will DRIVE the car to the Cdn side ---and I avoid MI tax -- tell you better in a week ...:-)

One dealer said I can have car transported ( but that too is a cost I didn't need).

Yes--I had them read www.carburner.com -- so they are also an expert

Greg


Hmmm...this definately complicates things. If I have to pay the 6% Michigan tax, I will definately not purchase from that State.

If the dealer agrees to drive the vehicle across the border, are you required to make full payment before you see the vehicle? What if something happens on the way to the border? Who will be responsible?

PM'd you.

[mangoman]

"You could win up to $10,000 towards your purchase or lease or win a GM vehicle + up to $5000 in cash incentives on selected models + a 1% GST reduction on your purchase"

So everyone has a 1:1 chance of winning a minimum of $1000 so really the 1% GST reduction and the $1000 is all all you get in terms of rebates because when it comes to the "upto $5000 in cash incentives", well here's the list of ineligible vehicles.

Ineligible vehicles include:
Vibe 07/08,
Solstice 07/08;
08 Aveo/Wave(LS/LT),
07 Aveo/Wave Sedan/5 Door ( in Alberta, Prairies, Atlantic, Ontario, Quebec),
08 Cobalt LS/G5 Base,
08 Malibu LS/1LT/2LT/LTZ/Hybrid,
07 Optra 5 LT/LS/Optra Wagon LS/LT (in Ontario),
07 Cobalt LS/G5 Base ( in Ontario),
08 Lucerne,
08 CTS,
07/08 HHR,
07 Rendezvous,
08 Equinox/Torrent,
07TrailBlazer/Envoy(2WD)Reg,
07 TrailBlazer/Envoy/Rainier (4WD/AWD) Reg,
08 TrailBlazer/Envoy,
07/08 Acadia,
08 Buick Enclave,
07/08 GH Vans Passenger, (not that I want one but what's a GH van???)
07/08 GH Vans Cargo/Cutaway,
07 Silverado Sierra GMT800/1500/Reg 1SZ,
08 Silverado/Sierra GMT 900 LD,
08 Avalanche, GMT 560 2
05/06/07 MY,
08 GMT 560 Family;
Saturn: 07/08 Aura XE/XR,
07/08 Sky,
08 Astra,
07/08 Outlook 2WD/4WD,
07 Vue 4Cyl/6Cyl,
08 Vue XE/XR/Redline.

What's left???? I'd actually consider an Astra (finally a car that's not designed by GM North America) if it was reasonably priced ... useless morons running around at GM's Sales/marketing divisions!! :confused:

[EL820]

Infiniti dealer I spoke with in Michigan said they would take it to the border, thus no sales tax in the state. I think Subie dealers do the same thing.

Thanks for the info. I'll be in touch with a Subaru dealer tomorrow.


Would you be able to elaborate the process...ie when & how will payment be made? What if something happens to the car on the way to the border? Thanks

[davehender]

To mdbuffy,

Thanks for all your excellent information. Things are pretty crazy here but once I get a moment or two I'll be firing off some more letters to the government contacts you listed to:

1. Take recall letters out of the hands of the manufacturers, as any fool can see they're either refusing to issue them out of spite or trying to rip Canadians off yet again by selling them for huge prices. Who do they think they are? They're continually acting like we owe them something, when it's a fact that it's the other way around. Once they start to understand this I think we'll all get along much better.

2. Contest the role of auto manufacturers in making unsubstantiated claims to TC about the admissibility of their products into Canada, and request a competent, independent, accountable, and impartial auditor (i.e. NOT a hired gun for the automotive industry) to evaluate their claims.

Manufacturers are clearly in a conflict of interest - they make decisions about whether their products belong on Canadian roads, and at the same time they decide how much we're going to pay for their products. Any regulatory body that doesn't see a conflict doesn't deserve to be a regulatory body! There's been some discussion here about the tricks that the auto manufacturers may be pulling next, like saying certain vehicles cannot possibly have immobilizers installed to keep them out of Canada. I think we should beat them to the punch by taking away their uncontested authority.

3. Investigate international price fixing & antitrust activities of automobile manufacturers. When American companies prevent US dealers from selling to Canadians, or when American/Canadian dealers deny warranty coverage to Canadian owners of US-purchased vehicles there's obviously a problem. Especially when there's some legal precedent already in place to say denying warranty coverage is illegal (BC Supreme Court - Toyota Canada Inc. v. Lipetz, 1998 CanLII 4473).

I don't believe the companies that continue to honour warranties do so out of the goodness of their hearts- I would say it's because they've already been through the courts for warranty 'issues' of their own in the past and lost. With respect to Canadian and American dealers restricting access, we're supposed to have very powerful mechanisms already in place under NAFTA to investigate and eliminate these types of behaviour. It has been said we need to shine a light on those in government who are responsible to get them to stand up for Canadian consumers, and I agree that we need to do just that.


We've made it this far folks, and we can't stop now! Congratulations to those who have gone through the trouble to get their vehicles. It just shouldn't be so difficult to do it, and you shouldn't be made to feel like a criminal for standing up for yourself & your rights as an already heavily-taxed taxpayer. If you could, please send off one or two more letters for us in support of consumers, so we can make sure the corporations don't slam the door on everyone.

[lightbulb]

I have a Legacy 5MT LGT and think it's a great car. I don't need a Nav system and have read on some Subie forums that the Subie system is only so-so at best. The only extras I got were mudguards & rubber mats. I wanted a manual transmission but if I had wanted an auto trannny, I would go with the 3.0 R model. The auto version of the LGT is supposed to be noticebly less responsive than the 5MT. The 3.0R version has the sportier shocks, 18" wheels & Nav system. Go for it!

QUOTE=bluemule999;6045358]I have a black 08 Legacy GT Limited Sedan, without navigation & XM. Wonderful car. Fantastic car and especially at the current price. Do not wait![/QUOTE]

[J233]

Hmmm...this definately complicates things. If I have to pay the 6% Michigan tax, I will definately not purchase from that State.

If the dealer agrees to drive the vehicle across the border, are you required to make full payment before you see the vehicle? What if something happens on the way to the border? Who will be responsible?

PM'd you.

Ask your dealer or do the research yourself if you can get temporary MI plates under your name without paying the tax. The convincing point is that the law requires to move the vehicle out of state but you can drive the vehicle as soon as you leave the state border. If this works then you will have some options, just be creative.

[toolman]

Anyone purchased a vehicle from Michigan State? Did you have to pay the 6% State tax? If so, were you able to successfully receive a refund from Michigan Treasury?

The Detriot Ambassador crossing is 24/7, which means I can import it on a Saturday.

Thanks in advance.

I bought in OH and didn't have to pay the sales tax.

Detroit
Name: Fort Street Cargo Facility
Phone: (313) 226-3139
Fax: (313) 226-5347
Operational Hours: Twenty Four (24) Hours A Day
Seven Days A Week (7)
I would call to make sure... Good Luck!

[inspire]

Hmmm...this definately complicates things. If I have to pay the 6% Michigan tax, I will definately not purchase from that State.
Depends on what car you want to buy. If you want to buy a new Honda / Acura, you will definitely need to pay Michigan sales tax. I don't think there is a single dealership in America that will sell a new Honda or Acura to a Canadian if it will be directly exported (ie to evade state taxes). I think the same can be said for Lexus -- no new car sales to Canadians. Not sure about the other makes.

I plan on looking at importing a G37 coupe (6MT) when the weather gets better in 2008. I hope they will still allow direct-to-Canadian sales, along with honouring the warranty in Canada. I don't mind taking the car to the US since I live very close to the border. Perhaps as the CAD$ drops lower to US$0.95, the C$3k cash incentive ... it might be economically feasible to just buy it locally ... then again ... it'll still be overpriced in Canada but not that bad. I'll see how generous I'll be in March ... the headaches spared not having to cross the Detroit-Windsor border might be worth it. I've already imported 2 cars in the past year ... I'm getting tired. ;)

[Quick_lude]

Wow, looks like SOA is definitely trying to help SOC by trying to limit the amount of cars bought by Cnds.. oh well, I think we all knew the party wouldn't last for long. :)

Drove my 08 Outback 2.5i over the last two days from Manchester. Dealt with Jack, awesome guy, he made the process easy and painless, we wanted a manual/silver right away and he got it for us the next day.

The car is great, you do get a "lot of car" for the price we paid. :D

[artemis_xxx]

[I posted this in the Tribeca thread, but seems like most people following this thread, so thought I'd post here too.]

FYI to those who bought the USA Tribeca.

I emailed Budd's Subaru in Oakville. The service advisor was very helpful. He looked into the HID conversion for me. SOunds like he can get the Subaru HID Kit for around $400 and install it for $200 plus taxes.

This might be a safer way to get the HID conversion done versus aftermarket. It is more expensive, but if it's the same HID system as in the Canadian Tribecas, I'd pay more to use something designed for my Tribeca than an aftermarket unknown installation.

I don't work for them by the way. I got my Tribeca from Multiline (paid more for it I'm sure than buying it myself, but didn't want the PITA factor of importing it myself - although it doesn't sound like anyone found the process difficult!).

Hope this helps someone. The HID thing was a hangup for me... stupid little thing I know, but I really like those HID lights. Promised myself I'd get them with my next car.

[Marzipan]

"You could win up to $10,000 towards your purchase or lease or win a GM vehicle + up to $5000 in cash incentives on selected models + a 1% GST reduction on your purchase"

So everyone has a 1:1 chance of winning a minimum of $1000 so really the 1% GST reduction and the $1000 is all all you get in terms of rebates because when it comes to the "upto $5000 in cash incentives", well here's the list of ineligible vehicles.


I might be missing the point. I thought the Wish and Win contest gave a credit ($1,000 min.) towards any GM vehicle on the lot. It seems to be a contest to get you into the showroom, win at least $1,000 then be shown the available vehicles against which you can credit your winnings - on top of any other incentives.

[jhardy]

Any vehicle on the lot, except for the long list of ineligible vehicles.

[postdotcom]

I crossed last Saturday in Detroit. Try to be there before it gets dark – less stressful. It is confusing as you have to drive through a construction site but not bad at all. You may want to follow this route:

Take exit 47B if you are coming form Toledo. I was planning to take 47A but it was closed. No worries. If you take 47B the ramp will take you to an open area –slow down and stay on the right. Look to the left – you should see the toll booths. In front, you should see the bridge. Towards right, like 2 o’clock, you should see two small old buildings. Drive slowly towards them, it’s a gravel road. You will see concrete blocks as you drive. As soon as you get close to these buildings turn left and drive slowly. This road will take you towards an automatic gate. As you drive, you should have the tool booths on the left, behind a fence. Approach the gate. It will open automatically so drive through and turn left, go around the brick building. You will be in a huge open space with some trucks. I turned right and parked by US Customs vehicles – not sure that’s OK but nobody said anything. US Customs are located in the second building, second door.
I spent about 45 minutes there as there was a long line up of truck drivers. The process itself was quick and quite pleasant. I showed them my passport, bill of sale, and original title. I was asked to wait as the officer checked the system and pulled my fax. He spent a couple of minutes on the computer and then handed back my title with the stamp and my passport.
When you done, they will tell you how to get to Canadian side. You will have to wait for someone to open the gate and then you will have to pay a $3.50 bridge toll.
BTW, the first question on the Canadian side was if I stopped at the US Custom side to properly export the vehicle.
Good luck !

Thank you for the information! I'm now ready to go!
:)

[eastsidesubaru]

No disrespect, Zach, but honestly, if that's the Outback 2.5i price, I'd rather buy the Accord here in Canada instead.

Gouged buy Honda Canada or gouged by Subaru of America ... same crap, pick your poison ...


I understand but I am simply being honest here about what the effect will be... as people think that it is just the rebate going away.. If it were just the rebate it would not be a big deal. But it is more.. it means the whole pricing strategy has to be re-adjusted.

[eastsidesubaru]

Eastside..
You have always been upfront and eager to make sales to Canadians.. why the sudden cloak and dagger response "long story"..
It sounds like maybe you are not giving the best deal possible currently?
Just curious if you are offering the refund of the SAF - Subaru Advertising Fund? I know it is about $500 car?
I still would love to hear why you would have to charge over MSRP.. sounds like you are preparing to gouge us CDN's or you already have been..

What the heck are you talking about...
SAF? I don't think you know what that is :cheesygri SAF reimburses a portion of dealership's advertising costs... There is no "500 a car"... I offer really good pricing on all my cars, you are welcome to contact me to get a price quote :cheesygri As to future pricing, maybe it will be at MSRP or maybe a bit under or maybe a bit over. But without the salesperson cash and with all the other incentives gone, I highly doubt any cars will be sold at invoice to Canada after Jan 3rd...

[allknowing]

I might be missing the point. I thought the Wish and Win contest gave a credit ($1,000 min.) towards any GM vehicle on the lot. It seems to be a contest to get you into the showroom, win at least $1,000 then be shown the available vehicles against which you can credit your winnings - on top of any other incentives.
The wish and win is for any car -- the exclusion list is additional incentives.
And I believe the wish and win applies to in stock or stock they can get their hands on quickly since you have to take delivery before the end of the event.
(so dealer to dealer trades will work but you wont have time to order new from the factory)
I was quoted $1000 off a SaturnOutlook - too bad I can get $18000 off a slightly used 07.

[scouzi]

To mdbuffy,

Thanks for all your excellent information. Things are pretty crazy here but once I get a moment or two I'll be firing off some more letters to the government contacts you listed to:

1. Take recall letters out of the hands of the manufacturers, as any fool can see they're either refusing to issue them out of spite or trying to rip Canadians off yet again by selling them for huge prices. Who do they think they are? They're continually acting like we owe them something, when it's a fact that it's the other way around. Once they start to understand this I think we'll all get along much better.

2. Contest the role of auto manufacturers in making unsubstantiated claims to TC about the admissibility of their products into Canada, and request a competent, independent, accountable, and impartial auditor (i.e. NOT a hired gun for the automotive industry) to evaluate their claims.

Manufacturers are clearly in a conflict of interest - they make decisions about whether their products belong on Canadian roads, and at the same time they decide how much we're going to pay for their products. Any regulatory body that doesn't see a conflict doesn't deserve to be a regulatory body! There's been some discussion here about the tricks that the auto manufacturers may be pulling next, like saying certain vehicles cannot possibly have immobilizers installed to keep them out of Canada. I think we should beat them to the punch by taking away their uncontested authority.

3. Investigate international price fixing & antitrust activities of automobile manufacturers. When American companies prevent US dealers from selling to Canadians, or when American/Canadian dealers deny warranty coverage to Canadian owners of US-purchased vehicles there's obviously a problem. Especially when there's some legal precedent already in place to say denying warranty coverage is illegal (BC Supreme Court - Toyota Canada Inc. v. Lipetz, 1998 CanLII 4473).

I don't believe the companies that continue to honour warranties do so out of the goodness of their hearts- I would say it's because they've already been through the courts for warranty 'issues' of their own in the past and lost. With respect to Canadian and American dealers restricting access, we're supposed to have very powerful mechanisms already in place under NAFTA to investigate and eliminate these types of behaviour. It has been said we need to shine a light on those in government who are responsible to get them to stand up for Canadian consumers, and I agree that we need to do just that.


We've made it this far folks, and we can't stop now! Congratulations to those who have gone through the trouble to get their vehicles. It just shouldn't be so difficult to do it, and you shouldn't be made to feel like a criminal for standing up for yourself & your rights as an already heavily-taxed taxpayer. If you could, please send off one or two more letters for us in support of consumers, so we can make sure the corporations don't slam the door on everyone.

From what I understand, in the Canada Inc. v. Lipetz case, Toyota lost because of the ambuguity in the wording of the contract. The wording simply mentioned Toyota (not Toyota Canada or Toyota USA). In Canada (or at least in Quebec), in a court of law, ambiguous clauses go against the person who drafted it.

[elmst200]

Canadians buy U.S. cars at record rate
Number almost tripled from November 2006
Tony Van Alphen
http://www.wheels.ca/article/46942

Business Reporter

Dec 06, 2007

The rush of Canadians importing cheaper new and used autos from the United States has turned into a stampede.

Canadians' purchases of autos in the U.S. almost tripled to a record 30,002 cars and trucks in November from the same period last year, statistics from Canada's Registrar of Imported Vehicles program showed yesterday.

Analysts say the strong Canadian dollar and thousands of dollars in more savings at dealers south of the border spurred the huge increase in sales.

"It's certainly escalating," said Carlos Gomes, senior economist and auto industry specialist at Scotiabank Group.

"It tells you that people were continuing to go to the U.S. for good deals rather than buy in Canada," Gomes added.

However Gomes said he expects the volume to ease off this month because of the quick decline of the dollar to just below parity with the U.S. greenback in recent days.

Statistics from the registrar, a program Ottawa set up in 1995, indicated the number of imports in November smashed the previous record of 24,873 in October.

The numbers show increasing levels almost every month this year as the dollar rose and consumers became more aware of significant savings on transaction prices south of the border despite red tape and other restrictions.

Until the late spring of last year, the Registrar of Imported Vehicles program had never recorded a month with more than 10,000 auto imports from the U.S.

The statistics also show used autos account for a majority of the imports but the percentage of new vehicles has climbed to 22 per cent of the total from 11 per cent during the last two years.

Analysts say the increase in imports was a factor in a 5 per cent decline in new auto sales by Canadian dealers during November.

The increasing number of imports this fall and soaring dollar prompted Canadian automakers to introduce the biggest package of incentives in their history last month.

Chrysler has already indicated it will sweeten its package of incentives even more to keep consumers buying in Canada.

Other automakers will likely follow with more incentives, analysts say.

Automakers in Canada have been reluctant to cut their suggested retail prices because of the potential negative impact on the prices of used vehicles and on residual values at the end of leases.

The registrar program, which is now operated by Livingston International Inc., a private customs broker, is now receiving more than 7,000 calls a day on how to properly import vehicles into Canada.

[mangoman]

The wish and win is for any car -- the exclusion list is additional incentives.
And I believe the wish and win applies to in stock or stock they can get their hands on quickly since you have to take delivery before the end of the event.
(so dealer to dealer trades will work but you wont have time to order new from the factory)
I was quoted $1000 off a SaturnOutlook - too bad I can get $18000 off a slightly used 07.

Correct - the $1000 "award" prize is on every vehicle after tax (unless you happen to win $20,000 then it's not every vehicle). The cash incentives are applied after that and only on cars that aren't on that ineligible list. And get this for the prizes you may have to factory order in order to get the prize which could mean that vehicles on the lot wouldn't count!!???

Contest closes January 10, 2008. Credit Awards are tax inclusive and can only be applied to the purchase or lease of new 2007 and 2008 GM vehicles delivered from dealer stock on or after November 8th and on or before January 10, 2008. Credit Awards exclude GM Medium Duty Trucks. The following 2008 MY vehicles are eligible for the application of $20,000 Vehicle Awards (inclusive of the $1,000 base award): Chevrolet Cobalt LT Sedan / Coupe (1AL69/37 1SA - no adds), Pontiac G5 SE Sedan / Coupe (2AL69/37 1SA - no adds), Saturn Astra XE 5-Door (ZAR48 1SA - no adds). Factory order may be required for Vehicle Awards.

[Danno2005]

More GM smoke and mirrors on the $20,000 prize. You need to factory order the cars from that short list - which cost GM $10,000 to build.
Forget about applying the $20,000 towards that Z06 Corvette.

[EL820]

... the headaches spared not having to cross the Detroit-Windsor border might be worth it. I've already imported 2 cars in the past year ... I'm getting tired. ;)

Is it that stressful to cross the Detroit/Windsor border? Knowing you'll save thou$and$ will not ease the pain enough to go through the process again? :lol:

[DSTU]

What the heck are you talking about...

Jerry Lundegaard.

You're out of Jail now and working at EastSide?

[zircon]

Thanks for the info. I'll be in touch with a Subaru dealer tomorrow.


Would you be able to elaborate the process...ie when & how will payment be made? What if something happens to the car on the way to the border? Thanks

I guess the car could get hit by a bus on the way to the border, but you would insure the car in advance. There are 3 Subie dealers in metro Detroit and I think they all deal to Canadians (Suburban Subura in Troy has an ad on their website for Canadians). You wire them money and they do all the paperwork. They bring the car to the border - perhaps with you sitting in it - to avoid Michigan taxes. The Infiniti guy I spoke with was very conversant on the process to avoid MI taxes, so it should be easy. I already bought a Lexus in July from a different state and found the process very easy.

[jac_3232]

I guess the car could get hit by a bus on the way to the border, but you would insure the car in advance. There are 3 Subie dealers in metro Detroit and I think they all deal to Canadians (Suburban Subura in Troy has an ad on their website for Canadians). You wire them money and they do all the paperwork. They bring the car to the border - perhaps with you sitting in it - to avoid Michigan taxes. The Infiniti guy I spoke with was very conversant on the process to avoid MI taxes, so it should be easy. I already bought a Lexus in July from a different state and found the process very easy.

The 3 Detroit Subaru dealers like to sell for MSRP. We’re in the process of buying from one of them right now, and it was very aggravating to get them down to invoice pricing, but I managed. The Detroit crossing is confusing if you’re not familiar with it, especially at night. They will ship it across the border to avoid tax, and even right to your house, but they charge $500-$1000 for that service.

[thegradas]

More than that: Astra is manufactured in Belgium.


I'd actually consider an Astra (finally a car that's not designed by GM North America) if it was reasonably priced ... useless morons running around at GM's Sales/marketing divisions!! :confused:

[zircon]

The 3 Detroit Subaru dealers like to sell for MSRP. We’re in the process of buying from one of them right now, and it was very aggravating to get them down to invoice pricing, but I managed. The Detroit crossing is confusing if you’re not familiar with it, especially at night. They will ship it across the border to avoid tax, and even right to your house, but they charge $500-$1000 for that service.

When I contacted the Subie dealers for quotes I entered a bogus MI address (1200 Woodward, Detroit, 48210 or something very similar) using the Edmunds new car pricing service. So, when they quoted me 30300 for a 08 Legacy GT with Nav, they thought I lived in the states. If I were to go forward, I would finish my negotiation and then tell them I was in Canada. If they add 500 or so to bring the car across, I could live with that.

I am still in a quandary because I don't need to replace my car for a year or two, but I expect the Can dealers to never come within 15% of US prices. Plus, my wife will kill me if we replace yet another car (we bought a Miata in 06 in Canada and a Lexus in the states this year). This would round out the platform turnover.

[Philz]

thanks everyone,
Will be looking for my Frontier, titan, or avalanche in the near future.

Philip

[ac328]

I am still in a quandary because I don't need to replace my car for a year or two, but I expect the Can dealers to never come within 15% of US prices. Plus, my wife will kill me if we replace yet another car (we bought a Miata in 06 in Canada and a Lexus in the states this year). This would round out the platform turnover.

I hear ya. My current BMW lease has 7 months to go and initially I wanted to wait until at least March to get a new car. But I don't think the deals will be available then like they are now.

Also, I will still be getting a 2008 car regardless of whether I buy now or in March-July, so my resale is the same. I eat 6 months of warranty but oh well, I can live with that for a $9k saving.

Including my cost of going down there to pick it up (airfare, gas) I figure my 08 Outback will cost less than 30k Canadian. This INCLUDES taxes, fees, etc.

[thelefteyeguy]

When I contacted the Subie dealers for quotes I entered a bogus MI address (1200 Woodward, Detroit, 48210 or something very similar) using the Edmunds new car pricing service. So, when they quoted me 30300 for a 08 Legacy GT with Nav, they thought I lived in the states. If I were to go forward, I would finish my negotiation and then tell them I was in Canada. If they add 500 or so to bring the car across, I could live with that.

I am still in a quandary because I don't need to replace my car for a year or two, but I expect the Can dealers to never come within 15% of US prices. Plus, my wife will kill me if we replace yet another car (we bought a Miata in 06 in Canada and a Lexus in the states this year). This would round out the platform turnover.

you really dont have much time left, once Jan 3 rolls around...they have to charge you more cause they will add back the SOA rebate

[ac328]

you really dont have much time left, once Jan 3 rolls around...they have to charge you more cause they will add back the SOA rebate

Agreed, that's why I'm doing it now. After jan 3 I figure my savings shrinks to 4 or 5k, at which point I would likely bend over and take it (i.e. buy in Canada).

Luckily by buying now I can avoid being held hostage by Canadian pricing.

[p110232]

I got someone in Illinois that could get it. Problem is that i'd have to pay their tax, plus duty, plus gst/pst. But still worth it if i save a combined 15K+

I've looked at the new C300 and drove one, wow, very nice indeed, in my opinion it is a better value purchase than the BMW, might still not drive like a BMW, but the styling, and inside of the C300 are better than that of the BMW IMO. It feels like you get a ton of standard features that youd' have to pay extra for in the BMW.

Mr. GCCG (and other RFDers looking for BMW alternatives), I found this interesting video review of the Infiniti EX35. Since Infiniti US allows dealers to sell to canucks, you might want to add this to your shortlist.

http://www.roadfly.com/2008-infiniti-ex35.html

I'm poor with parallel parking, and i see the new nanny-aid "around-view monitor" very beneficial.

other unique techs:
- lane departure prevention (not lane departure warning)
- self-healing clearcoat

[mangoman]

Waiting for DesRosiers the Doorknob to say something about how new car sales are chugging along again, yet the rebates keep increasing which means they're definitely hurting! Nissan upped the rebates a bit more again (getting there but not there yet)! As an example, the Sentra has $1000-1500 and instead of the $500 Visa bucks, they upped it to $1000 now so about $2000-2500 depending which model you get - unfortunately, MSRP is still way out of whack! US Spec V SER's are priced less than Cdn SLs! :(

[hOrnizuka]

http://www.crashcribbage.com/images/iraqmoi.bmp

For some reason, I always picture DesRosiers ^....

[careener]

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ^^ good one

[mangoman]

^
|
|
|


Heeeeeeeee heeeeeeeeeeeee heeeee! :lol:

[abpat75]

Hi,

Finally, I'm getting ready to import 08 Toyota Camry from IL and I plan to cross through the SARNIA/Port Huron (Blue Water Bridge) Crossing.

The US custom office location, seems to be very confusing. Can you please share your experience, if you have used the same crossing. Thanks for your help.

AB

[hans slayer]

If anyone is interested,it only takes a moment. Every bit helps.




http://www.carswithoutborders.com/get-involved/join-the-petition/

[southpaw4golf]

Regarding the $530 BMW ripoff letter... Just wondering what happens after the customer heads down to the dealership and forks over the ransom for the letter. Does the recall letter automatically gets forwarded to Riv by BMW Canada or does BMW Canada send it over to the BMW dealership whom then forwards it to the customer?

[etam]

Thinking of pickup the car from NewYork on Dec31 morning and visit the export office before 4pm at Queenston/Lewiston (I hope they open that day)... after export paper work done.. go back to US side and stay pass mid-night to get back to Toronto (Canada custom open 24/7, right) and pay only 5% GST.. is it going to work? There is no rule saying that you have to come back to Canada right away after US export office, right?

[t_garp]

Mr. GCCG (and other RFDers looking for BMW alternatives), I found this interesting video review of the Infiniti EX35. Since Infiniti US allows dealers to sell to canucks, you might want to add this to your shortlist.

http://www.roadfly.com/2008-infiniti-ex35.html

I'm poor with parallel parking, and i see the new nanny-aid "around-view monitor" very beneficial.

other unique techs:
- lane departure prevention (not lane departure warning)
- self-healing clearcoat

+1 on the Infiniti EX35. Same great interior as the new G35 except sorta a wagon. However, from what I've been reading there are waiting lists for the CUV and dealers (based on what they did when the G35 was launched) will not budge much on the MSRP. As well expect to only find fully loaded models on dealer lots, so expect EX35 AWD Journeys + Tech + Nav, so you're looking at ~38k OTD...

I considered the EX 35, however, will most likely move on a used FX35 with ~8k miles for ~32k. Your relative savings vs. Canada are much better on that truck as it is ~55k in Canada.

[smokiebk]

Can anyone who has bought a car in Seattle and driven it back to Calgary please let me know which route you took and what your experiences were like.

I am looking at either crossing via:

1) Blaine WA and coming back via the Rockies (not the safest drive in winter); however the SUbaru dealer can email copies of the documents there apparently making the export process painless. However according to the US CBP website it's only open 8 to 3:30 on weekdays?

OR

2) Eastport ID, meaning I can avoid the Rockies; however the crossing is quite strict on receiving faxes and apparently require a signed MSO front and back? However it appears the export office is open 24/7.

Any help would be much appreciated...


I'll be attempting to bring back my used Subie from Seattle this weekend, through the Eastport, ID crossing. Going through here to avoid the mountains, like you said ac328. The Sweetgrass, MT crossing adds too much time & distance.

As per the info from Carburner.com, I called the Whitlash, MT port to ask what I need to fax, and because my car is a used, private sale vehicle, all they said was the Export Worksheet, and front and back of the title (which, I guess, is the equivalent of an MSO?). I then called the Eastport number, and confirmed they are 24/7.

I'll post an update when I get back home.

[ac328]

I'll be attempting to bring back my used Subie from Seattle this weekend, through the Eastport, ID crossing. Going through here to avoid the mountains, like you said ac328. The Sweetgrass, MT crossing adds too much time & distance.

As per the info from Carburner.com, I called the Whitlash, MT port to ask what I need to fax, and because my car is a used, private sale vehicle, all they said was the Export Worksheet, and front and back of the title (which, I guess, is the equivalent of an MSO?). I then called the Eastport number, and confirmed they are 24/7.

I'll post an update when I get back home.

Many, many thanks smokiebk. I have also planned for Eastport ID now for exactly the same reasons. They also told me that they are open 24/7 and to fax everything to Whitlash, although the woman I spoke to seemed to have a room-temperature IQ. Yes, according to the US CBP website for Whitlash MT, for a used car the title must be signed by the seller and have your name listed as the buyer.

I got a cheap fare on Air Canada to Seattle (144 all in one way, direct) for Sunday December 16, going to try and get back in one day. I look forward to hearing about your experiences.

Have a safe drive back, enjoy your car!

[tico 1948]

If I remember correctly, someone reported on this thread that he received re-imbursement from SoA in about 2 weeks. Not bad IMO...

Thats right, the member is Symcrapico (my good buddy from Laval):D who had his windshield replaced and received his rebate cheque PDQ.:) From all appearances, the Subie rebate thing "is all good".:cool: :cool:

[tico 1948]

These people attacking Zach and Xan, have they offered any savings at all? Not even a cent to the numerous new car owners that Zach and Xan have helped saved tens of thousands of dollars. And here are these people accusing them of being gougers and self-promoters. What have you guys done to help save some of the members here? These idiots must be nothing else but bitter Canadian Subaru salespeople who couldn't sell to smart Canadians car buyers.

+1 and I'm astounded by the intensity of these attacks towards the Salesmen who have only helped RFD members. Geez Karl, better keep your head down. We are all "supposed" to be here to; help each other obtain the most(desired) vehicle for the least amount of $$$.That, along with helping each other with timely, accurate information. All to hopfully overcome any problems that we may encounter in our quests for purchasing our vehicles. I would be quite content to not read attacks of any kind directed toward RFD Salesmen.Just my 2 cents.

[DrXenon]

There will be no incentive for the dealer to sell to Canadians. The sale will not count for any bonuses, awards, volume rebates, etc. Basically it will be a good will sale and dealers could charge what they want because they will make nothing. I'm not saying all dealers will get greedy but some will.

So you get a mail forwarding service in a no-tax state and provide that address to Subary of America. You get your incentives, dealer gets theirs and everybody's happy. In a few months, if you need warranty support (and this is rare unless you whine about every little thing) you tell SOA that your address has changed to Canada or you take the car to the US dealer for the work.

Here's an example mail forwarding service:

http://www.cbiusa.com/Services_01.htm

[UAToronto]

Thanks for the great info here I'm currently negotiating a deal on a 2004 Lexus RX330, the dealer is in New Jersey and he said they don't provide temporary permit, and I must register in Canada. What does that mean? Does anyone know how to resolve this?

Thanks!

[inkognito81]

My wife told me she saw a Outback with Van Bortel plates today in Ottawa (Barrhaven) :cheesygri I'll be joining the ranks soon too!

[niceguy1234]

Anyone purchase NEW 2008 Toyota Camry from Washington state? Does Toyota dealer willing to sell brand new cars to Canadian customers?

[shopper-X]

Mr. GCCG (and other RFDers looking for BMW alternatives), I found this interesting video review of the Infiniti EX35. Since Infiniti US allows dealers to sell to canucks, you might want to add this to your shortlist.

http://www.roadfly.com/2008-infiniti-ex35.html

I'm poor with parallel parking, and i see the new nanny-aid "around-view monitor" very beneficial.

other unique techs:
- lane departure prevention (not lane departure warning)
- self-healing clearcoat

+1 on the Infiniti EX35. Same great interior as the new G35 except sorta a wagon. However, from what I've been reading there are waiting lists for the CUV and dealers (based on what they did when the G35 was launched) will not budge much on the MSRP. As well expect to only find fully loaded models on dealer lots, so expect EX35 AWD Journeys + Tech + Nav, so you're looking at ~38k OTD...

I considered the EX 35, however, will most likely move on a used FX35 with ~8k miles for ~32k. Your relative savings vs. Canada are much better on that truck as it is ~55k in Canada.

The EX35 looks and sounds awesome!
The Admissibility List mentions to contact Nissan Canada to verify:

2008 All models except those
listed in the inadmissible column.
2008 EX35 (please contact Nissan
Canada to verify the admissibility
of the vehicle)

[J233]

Thanks for the great info here I'm currently negotiating a deal on a 2004 Lexus RX330, the dealer is in New Jersey and he said they don't provide temporary permit, and I must register in Canada. What does that mean? Does anyone know how to resolve this?

Thanks!

What do you mean "they don't provide temporary permit " ? If you request one and the state you buying in offers this "concept" (for example, Massachusetts does not) the dealer is obligated to get one for you as part of the "paperwork".

[paul_lee]

My wife told me she saw a Outback with Van Bortel plates today in Ottawa (Barrhaven) :cheesygri I'll be joining the ranks soon too!

Could be mine if it was a deep bronze colour one.:razz:

[cordarone]

Thanks for the great info here I'm currently negotiating a deal on a 2004 Lexus RX330, the dealer is in New Jersey and he said they don't provide temporary permit, and I must register in Canada. What does that mean? Does anyone know how to resolve this?

Thanks!

You can get a temporary 20-day non-renewable registration in New Jersey to take the car out-of-state, per this link:
http://www.state.nj.us/mvc/Vehicle/TemporaryRegistration.htm

Not sure why the dealer can't do this for you, though?

[UAToronto]

You can get a temporary 20-day non-renewable registration in New Jersey to take the car out-of-state, per this link:
http://www.state.nj.us/mvc/Vehicle/TemporaryRegistration.htm

Not sure why the dealer can't do this for you, though?

Big help! Thanks a lot cordarone! I'll speak to the dealer tomorrow.:D

[GougingCarCartelGroup]

WOW very nice indeed, hmmm,
I loved the FX also, i just looked at the FX in Canada, god damn, they are mental. 63K for the 320Hp model. A-holes.


Mr. GCCG (and other RFDers looking for BMW alternatives), I found this interesting video review of the Infiniti EX35. Since Infiniti US allows dealers to sell to canucks, you might want to add this to your shortlist.

http://www.roadfly.com/2008-infiniti-ex35.html

I'm poor with parallel parking, and i see the new nanny-aid "around-view monitor" very beneficial.

other unique techs:
- lane departure prevention (not lane departure warning)
- self-healing clearcoat

[shoprbccom]

Has anyone read/heard anything in regards to Transport Canada scrapping the recall letter requirement in the near future?

I've read a few different forums that seem to think this might be happening?

[GougingCarCartelGroup]

I doubt it, that would be wayyyyyyyyyyy too much for the government to do for the Canadian consumer,

Has anyone read/heard anything in regards to Transport Canada scrapping the recall letter requirement in the near future?

I've read a few different forums that seem to think this might be happening?

[p110232]

More details about infiniti's "around view monitor". This tech is freakin' amazing! IMO, this is better than Lexus' 1st version of the self-parking system?

http://www.roadfly.com/infiniti-ex35-around-view-monitoring.html

Thanks for the heads-up Shopper-X. I hope this vehicle becomes unconditionally admissible in the future. My guess is, since the EX35 is a new model and not yet in showrooms, Infiniti opted to postpone confirmation of the technical/engineering specs to RIV until they take possession of inventory.

[Kamloops]

More details about infiniti's "around view monitor". This tech is freakin' amazing! IMO, this is better than Lexus' 1st version of the self-parking system?

http://www.roadfly.com/infiniti-ex35-around-view-monitoring.html

Thanks for the heads-up Shopper-X. I hope this vehicle becomes unconditionally admissible in the future. My guess is, since the EX35 is a new model and not yet in showrooms, Infiniti opted to postpone confirmation of the technical/engineering specs to RIV until they take possession of inventory.

What a stupid system, if you need that to park you should not be on the road.

[eastsidesubaru]

So you get a mail forwarding service in a no-tax state and provide that address to Subary of America. You get your incentives, dealer gets theirs and everybody's happy. In a few months, if you need warranty support (and this is rare unless you whine about every little thing) you tell SOA that your address has changed to Canada or you take the car to the US dealer for the work.

Here's an example mail forwarding service:

http://www.cbiusa.com/Services_01.htm

It still adds an additional hurdle... Especially as the dealers are going to be nervous if they know you are canadian... if SoA were to find out.. Well.. Bad things could happen.

[michelb]

More details about infiniti's "around view monitor". This tech is freakin' amazing! IMO, this is better than Lexus' 1st version of the self-parking system?

http://www.roadfly.com/infiniti-ex35-around-view-monitoring.html

Thanks for the heads-up Shopper-X. I hope this vehicle becomes unconditionally admissible in the future. My guess is, since the EX35 is a new model and not yet in showrooms, Infiniti opted to postpone confirmation of the technical/engineering specs to RIV until they take possession of inventory.

What a stupid system, if you need that to park you should not be on the road.

I have to disagree - I think this is great technology. I'll agree with you that if you NEED this you shouldn't be on the road but I think any driver can benefit from this. I'm sure we've all been in a situation where we've parked too far from the curb or too close and the tires hit or parked too close to the car in front or behind or even tapped bumpers getting into tight spots. This is just a tool that helps drivers.

I'll admit that the Lexus 'self-park' is pretty stupid and useless (and from what I've seen, it doesn't always work that well) but backup cameras are a good thing especially with large vehicles (we have a large RV and I would never back that thing up without a backup camera).

[heavychemist]

My wife told me she saw a Outback with Van Bortel plates today in Ottawa (Barrhaven) :cheesygri I'll be joining the ranks soon too!
We saw a Tribeca with the Van Bortel plates at the Kanata SuperStore back in November. That's part of the reason why we took the plunge and bought a Tribeca in the States. The whole process was actually relatively easy. Good luck with your purchase :)

[davehender]

From what I understand, in the Canada Inc. v. Lipetz case, Toyota lost because of the ambuguity in the wording of the contract. The wording simply mentioned Toyota (not Toyota Canada or Toyota USA). In Canada (or at least in Quebec), in a court of law, ambiguous clauses go against the person who drafted it.


Thank you Scouzi. Duly noted.

Sorry everyone. When I post something here it's important to me that it be correct so that it can be used to help put auto manufacturers back in their place as builders & vendors, not corporate barons and tyrants. God knows we have enough of those already. You can tell they're getting out of control when they start taking more and more of our money and government seems less & less willing or able to do anything about it (just like with the fuel companies). But I digress. From now on I'll be sure to check everything that I write about before I write about it. I really do prefer to leave bias and misinformation in the hands of the professionals... the self-proclaimed automotive journalists.

[fugazi11]

I have an FX and went to the unveiling of the EX a month back that infiniti had and the car is beautiful. Just be aware that it is not big.

[shopper-X]

I have an FX and went to the unveiling of the EX a month back that infiniti had and the car is beautiful. Just be aware that it is not big.

Is it the size of/or the Infiniti version of the Nissan Rouge?

[fugazi11]

Haven't sat in a rogue but think of the EX as a slightly (only inches) taller wagon version of the the G35. If you are single or don't have any kids then absolutely something I would look at. I was hoping it would be slightly bigger as we have a 9 month old and decided that it wouldn't cut it.

[brohmank]

Anyone know if this would work to buy a new car in the US from manufactures that won't sell to Canadians (or to get US rebates, holdbacks):
1. Get a US address (from any number of mailbox rental services).
2. Buy a new car from a dealer in a different state using the US address (to avoid paying US state sales tax)
3. Just get a temporary licence from the dealer as you will not be registering it in the state you purchased.
4. But instead of taking it to register where you have the US address, import the car instead.

There must be a catch, as this seems too easy.

[jwstewart]

Anyone know if this would work to buy a new car in the US from manufactures that won't sell to Canadians (or to get US rebates, holdbacks):
1. Get a US address (from any number of mailbox rental services).
2. Buy a new car from a dealer in a different state using the US address (to avoid paying US state sales tax)
3. Just get a temporary licence from the dealer as you will not be registering it in the state you purchased.
4. But instead of taking it to register where you have the US address, import the car instead.

There must be a catch, as this seems too easy.

Yes, your method is too easy. You must Title the car in the USA thru a State DMV. (Either the State of your Mailing address, or the State of purchase, depending on regulations). It is the titling process that the manufacturers use to determine where the vehicle is sold to.

Most states will charge Tax, unless you Title it in a state that allows for Titling a vehicle prior to export without tax.

[Matty]

OK, perhaps more of a realisation, or a revelation, but heavens to Betsy, what a fantastic revelation!!!

I just realised that although current models may show huge price discrepancies in Cdn vs. US pricing, these are all cars whose prices were established looong before the loonie was so strong.

What does this mean? Well, now that the loonie is at parity, the prices of cars coming out NOW AND IN THE FUTURE will be at parity!! How could they not? It’s by the very laws of economics, and good business practices, (and not wanting to insult thousands of Canadian buyers, or wanting to lose millions of dollars in sales) that Canadian car companies can from now on, easily justify “parity pricing”!

Wow, boys and girls, it was just a bit of a rough spot before a comfortable, easy final adjustment! And the great thing is, we’re there -- I mean here -- right now! Oh my gosh, so many exclamation marks!

The new 2009 Honda Pilot coming next spring, the 2008 Mini Cooper Clubman, the Nissan GT-R, the BMW X6, the Dodge Challenger … these will all be at parity!

So, like, whaddya think RFDers? We just have to celebrate! I’ll start calling for a big hall. diigii, can you look for a caterer? Shopper-X, go find a band! MonsieurMaggot, you’re a great speaker, you line up the media…


[Since some felt I was actually being sincere, let me clarify: sadly I'm being sarcastic. Very, very sarcastic.]

[AMD]

Keep on dreaming...

New models will still be overpriced in Canada, and that's a fact.

Just take a look at the new Saturn Astra coming out in a few weeks for example. Big price difference between US and Canada.


OK, perhaps more of a realisation, or a revelation, but heavens to Betsy, what a fantastic revelation!!!

I just realised that although current models may show huge price discrepancies in Cdn vs. US pricing, these are all cars whose prices were established looong before the loonie was so strong.

What does this mean? Well, now that the loonie is at parity, the prices of cars coming out NOW AND IN THE FUTURE will be at parity!! How could they not? It’s by the very laws of economics, and good business practices, (and not wanting to insult thousands of Canadian buyers, or wanting to lose millions of dollars in sales) that Canadian car companies can from now on, easily justify “parity pricing”!

Wow, boys and girls, it was just a bit of a rough spot before a comfortable, easy final adjustment! And the great thing is, we’re there -- I mean here -- right now! Oh my gosh, so many exclamation marks!

The new 2009 Honda Pilot coming next spring, the 2008 Mini Cooper Clubman, the Nissan GT-R, the BMW X6, the Dodge Challenger … these will all be at parity!

So, like, whaddya think RFDers? We just have to celebrate! I’ll start calling for a big hall. diigii, can you look for a caterer? Shopper-X, go find a band! MonsieurMaggot, you’re a great speaker, you line up the media…

[Agedashi]

Yes, your method is too easy. You must Title the car in the USA thru a State DMV. (Either the State of your Mailing address, or the State of purchase, depending on regulations). It is the titling process that the manufacturers use to determine where the vehicle is sold to.

Most states will charge Tax, unless you Title it in a state that allows for Titling a vehicle prior to export without tax.


What about having your American Aunt (if you can trust her : -) purchase the vehicle and you purchase from her used.

Anyone see a flaw there?

[ac328]

What about having your American Aunt (if you can trust her : -) purchase the vehicle and you purchase from her used.

Anyone see a flaw there?

If your aunt registers the car in a state that levies sales tax she (i.e. you) will have to eat that cost.

[rjmbc]

You could register it in Montana, Oregon or Alaska as they, like Alberta have no sales tax.

[coolcoolfi]

:lol: What a dreamer! He has not been following what's going on.

OK, perhaps more of a realisation, or a revelation, but heavens to Betsy, what a fantastic revelation!!!

I just realised that although current models may show huge price discrepancies in Cdn vs. US pricing, these are all cars whose prices were established looong before the loonie was so strong.

What does this mean? Well, now that the loonie is at parity, the prices of cars coming out NOW AND IN THE FUTURE will be at parity!! How could they not? It’s by the very laws of economics, and good business practices, (and not wanting to insult thousands of Canadian buyers, or wanting to lose millions of dollars in sales) that Canadian car companies can from now on, easily justify “parity pricing”!

Wow, boys and girls, it was just a bit of a rough spot before a comfortable, easy final adjustment! And the great thing is, we’re there -- I mean here -- right now! Oh my gosh, so many exclamation marks!

The new 2009 Honda Pilot coming next spring, the 2008 Mini Cooper Clubman, the Nissan GT-R, the BMW X6, the Dodge Challenger … these will all be at parity!

So, like, whaddya think RFDers? We just have to celebrate! I’ll start calling for a big hall. diigii, can you look for a caterer? Shopper-X, go find a band! MonsieurMaggot, you’re a great speaker, you line up the media…

[UAToronto]

What do you mean "they don't provide temporary permit " ? If you request one and the state you buying in offers this "concept" (for example, Massachusetts does not) the dealer is obligated to get one for you as part of the "paperwork".

Guess this dealer has never sold to Canadians, he is confused about the process. But since the car has low milage with reasonable price I think I have to be patient.

[GougingCarCartelGroup]

That is why the brand new Audi S5 is priced at 50K in the USA, and in Canada you have to grease up and take it up the ass for 65K


OK, perhaps more of a realisation, or a revelation, but heavens to Betsy, what a fantastic revelation!!!

I just realised that although current models may show huge price discrepancies in Cdn vs. US pricing, these are all cars whose prices were established looong before the loonie was so strong.

What does this mean? Well, now that the loonie is at parity, the prices of cars coming out NOW AND IN THE FUTURE will be at parity!! How could they not? It’s by the very laws of economics, and good business practices, (and not wanting to insult thousands of Canadian buyers, or wanting to lose millions of dollars in sales) that Canadian car companies can from now on, easily justify “parity pricing”!

Wow, boys and girls, it was just a bit of a rough spot before a comfortable, easy final adjustment! And the great thing is, we’re there -- I mean here -- right now! Oh my gosh, so many exclamation marks!

The new 2009 Honda Pilot coming next spring, the 2008 Mini Cooper Clubman, the Nissan GT-R, the BMW X6, the Dodge Challenger … these will all be at parity!

So, like, whaddya think RFDers? We just have to celebrate! I’ll start calling for a big hall. diigii, can you look for a caterer? Shopper-X, go find a band! MonsieurMaggot, you’re a great speaker, you line up the media…

[Monsieurmaggot]

We're only 12,000 reads away from taking the lead for the "all-time" most popular thread on RFDs.

No wonder it's so popular, with anyone potentially saving THOUSANDS of dollars on a US car purchase, the deal is HOTTER than most all others on this site combined!

With over 30,000 cars being imported in November, you know the word's getting out.

I'm still waiting for the DesRosiers reprint of the article claiming that US sales are not significant enough to warrant any concern!

[2ride4life]

:lol: What a dreamer! He has not been following what's going on.

He may be a dreamer, that doesn't mean he can't be right ... but doesn't preclude him from being wrong either. I was wondering whether this would start happening so I just did the price comparison of 2008 Mazda5 GT without options. I had to do it on the GT because it is the only USA model with an immobilizer. Also, I realize the two trims are not exactly alike, for instance in Canada you can apparently get a GT with a manual transmission, while in the USA it is not available. Anywho ...

CDN/USA/%diff
MSRP 24815/22365/9.87
Invoice 23159/20923/9.65
market 23853/21995/7.79
Dest 1390/635/54

subtotal 25243/22630/10
duty -----/23987/--
GST 1514.63/1357.80/--
PST 1767.06/1679.15/--

subtotal 28525.46/27024.75/5.26

Loan/Fin 2152.45(2.9%@60mnts)/4891.85(6.75%@60mnts)

GrandTotal 30677.91/31916.60/-4.03%

So it appears that for this NEW model that the price differental is actually better in Canada. I am not sure if this is an abberation in the market or not. Anyone care to look over the numbers to point out stuff, please do so ... when I decide to pull the trigger I don't want to be the one shot, right?!

[UAToronto]

This is the message I received from a dealer in New Jersey regarding the temporary permit: "I can provide everything but a temp. tag, it is the law" "we can not issue temporary plates or stickers for vehicles that go outside of the U.S.A." No deal!!

[kplange]

In regards to not paying sales tax, here's what I did. I recently purchased a '07 Saturn Sky Redline (3000 miles) from a dealership in Las Vegas. Since I own a winter residence in Arizona, all I had to do was provide them with this address. I did not have to pay Nevada sales tax. They gave me a 15 day permit to bring the car back to Arizona. A Nevada title from the previous owner was mailed to me in a week. I had already bought an insurance policy from Geico, so my insurance needs were covered. Now, I suppose I could have headed north instead of bringing it back to Arizona, but I wanted to enjoy it down here for the next five months. As it was, I had to pay the sales tax and registration fee to put it on the road in Arizona, but to me, that was worth it. I couldn't see buying a car and just parking it for the next five months. So, I'm assuming that if a dealer was to accept a U.S. Post Office box number as your address, and gave you a permit, you could probably drive back to Canada without paying sales tax.

[Snugster24]

Hi,

Finally, I'm getting ready to import 08 Toyota Camry from IL and I plan to cross through the SARNIA/Port Huron (Blue Water Bridge) Crossing.

The US custom office location, seems to be very confusing. Can you please share your experience, if you have used the same crossing. Thanks for your help.

AB


I recently bought a 2008 Camry and brought it over the bluewater bridge.

Here is the tricky part. I think you pay the bridge toll first...then park your car on the left side of the bridge as you exit the toll. Look for the US customs building (it's the only thing there). There is a gated entrance with someone guarding it to let you in...walking with all your paperwork or they may allow you to bring the vehicle...this I am not sure of. US customs stamps your dmv title and you need this for Cdn customs.

Canadian Customs on the other side will check to see if you are on the inadmissable list...and will take your dmv for inspection.

Beaware if you miss the US customs building (because you didn't read what I wrote or didn't know you had to pull over) you will be sent back from CDN customs to get you dmv stamped....big headache...I know...LOL.

:lol:

[diigii]

So when will we see this parity pricing?? Do you have a date when we can expect it?

If I'm responsible with the catering, then who'll bring the booze? Then you have to charter a bus for those of us drinking. We wouldn't want our new rides to get smashed up in our own drunken state, would we? :lol:

But right now, I will continue with my snickering with a one-finger salute to all local car dealerships I pass by. :cheesygri

OK, perhaps more of a realisation, or a revelation, but heavens to Betsy, what a fantastic revelation!!!

I just realised that although current models may show huge price discrepancies in Cdn vs. US pricing, these are all cars whose prices were established looong before the loonie was so strong.

What does this mean? Well, now that the loonie is at parity, the prices of cars coming out NOW AND IN THE FUTURE will be at parity!! How could they not? It’s by the very laws of economics, and good business practices, (and not wanting to insult thousands of Canadian buyers, or wanting to lose millions of dollars in sales) that Canadian car companies can from now on, easily justify “parity pricing”!

Wow, boys and girls, it was just a bit of a rough spot before a comfortable, easy final adjustment! And the great thing is, we’re there -- I mean here -- right now! Oh my gosh, so many exclamation marks!

The new 2009 Honda Pilot coming next spring, the 2008 Mini Cooper Clubman, the Nissan GT-R, the BMW X6, the Dodge Challenger … these will all be at parity!

So, like, whaddya think RFDers? We just have to celebrate! I’ll start calling for a big hall. diigii, can you look for a caterer? Shopper-X, go find a band! MonsieurMaggot, you’re a great speaker, you line up the media…

[Snugster24]

Someone had asked what problems I had with the recall clearance letter from Toyota awhile back...too many pages back for me to find.

Well...I did exactly what RIV said to do on their recall page. I got a authorized dealership in the US to write a letter (the dealership I bought the car from) with their letter head stating "this vehicle has no outstanding recalls" and the VIN number of course.

Guess what RIV said....not acceptable. I pointed out that the letter was exactly what the site says to do....no joy....rrrrrrrghhhh.

The 08 hybrid has a all weather floor mat recall....something that wasn't put in my vehicle. Toyota US will not issue recall letter until the floor mat recall is completed. US dealership doesn't know how to remove the recall...kind of funny I know. and the local Cdn dealership can't complete the recall.

RIV needs a printout the VIN in Toyota's vehicle inquiry system. I found that out after a few calls and emails to RIV. They have changed the recall requirements and will not post it on their site....typical....


frustrated at RIV and somewhat at Toyota for not being able to clear a recall as simple as this....

Are they trying to discourage CDN's from cross border car buying....probably.

[nornet]

I just returned from the bank and they wanted about $500 to convert cdn to US funds and certify the cheque. surely there must be other options like EX.com. I know they are cheaper but from what I gather the account has to be in US funds. Any suggestions?

[xingjl]

Anyone bough new Mazda car form US recently? I tried a few dealers, none of them willing to sell car to Canadian. >:(

[st7860]

don't go to a bank. go to a currency exchange place in a business district.

for example, this or its equivalent in your city.

http://www.vbce.info/

[kplange]

If you open a U.S. bank account with Scotia Bank, U.S. money orders are free. Whatever the rate of exchange is that day is all that you would be charged. Now whether or not a U.S. dealership would accept a U.S bank draft drawn on a Canadian bank is another issue. I happen to have a bank account in Arizona, so that made my dealings a lot easier.

[diigii]

This question of mine just came to mind since I remember what Toyota Canada's press release in the summer about the merits of buying a made-for-Canada Toyota against a US-spec Toyota.

So if we take that press release to what it claims, do any of your US-bought Toyotas have experienced battery failures? Have you ran out of windshield washer fluid quickly than normal because you didn't have "high-capacity reservoirs? Have your not-so-heavy-duty radiators over heated or your heater-core failed to warm you up in our bitter cold wintery weather as of late?

It's all a bunch of crap, EH? :cheesygri I just couldn't resist! :lol:

[ottawa_hull]

Waiting for DesRosiers the Doorknob to say something about how new car sales are chugging along again, yet the rebates keep increasing which means they're definitely hurting! Nissan upped the rebates a bit more again (getting there but not there yet)! As an example, the Sentra has $1000-1500 and instead of the $500 Visa bucks, they upped it to $1000 now so about $2000-2500 depending which model you get - unfortunately, MSRP is still way out of whack! US Spec V SER's are priced less than Cdn SLs! :(

I'll tell ya, some dealers are having a hard time letting go of their superior attitude. Case in point is that I went to Camco Acura in Ottawa and wanted to discuss MDX pricing. After discussing the general merits of the SUV we get to the business of $$$. I point blank pointed out to the Acura 7 to 9K rebate. He was kind of , eh..eh, well let me check...
Finally, after he acknowledged the Acura rebate (He kept refering to it as a discount, as if it came from him), I stated that now we need to negotiate the price of the vehicle starting from the invoice price. His response: No other discount is available. I pointed to him that he did not expect me to buy a car at MSRP! He did not seem to be swayed in any way. To top it off, he somehow saw my 2006 Van and asked me if I would be willing to Trade. I said yes, he face lit up and started telling me that the price of used cars has crashed and how I should not expect much for it.
I just walked away....

[diigii]

I'll tell ya, some dealers are having a hard time letting go of their superior attitude. Case in point is that I went to Camco Acura in Ottawa and wanted to discuss MDX pricing. After discussing the general merits of the SUV we get to the business of $$$. I point blank pointed out to the Acura 7 to 9K rebate. He was kind of , eh..eh, well let me check...
Finally, after he acknowledged the Acura rebate (He kept refering to it as a discount, as if it came from him), I stated that now we need to negotiate the price of the vehicle starting from the invoice price. His response: No other discount is available. I pointed to him that he did not expect me to buy a car at MSRP! He did not seem to be swayed in any way. To top it off, he somehow saw my 2006 Van and asked me if I would be willing to Trade. I said yes, he face lit up and started telling me that the price of used cars has crashed and how I should not expect much for it.
I just walked away....

Reading your story, I'm like watching the Capital One Mastercard TV ad. "BANKERS!" with the bankers just appearing out of nowhere when they smell a whif of cash being fluttered. The salesrep acted like that when you said yes to trading your van.

[nornet]

If you open a U.S. bank account with Scotia Bank, U.S. money orders are free. Whatever the rate of exchange is that day is all that you would be charged. Now whether or not a U.S. dealership would accept a U.S bank draft drawn on a Canadian bank is another issue. I happen to have a bank account in Arizona, so that made my dealings a lot easier.

I paid the dealer with a certified cheque (in US funds) for a car last spring so that is not an issue. It seems that TD wants an arm and a leg to convert Cdn to US even if I open up a US account.

[Nitol]

Could someone help me understand this,

I purchased a used vehicle from an Ohio dealer.The dealer just called me saying that the DMV is asking for sales tax to transfer the title into my name.I'm inclined to believe him since I just called the Ohio Department of Taxation and spent a good 20min before I managed to get them to read their own tax code (5739.029) and confirm the tax exemption!
However transferring that confirmation from the Ohio Tax Department clerk to the OHIO's DMV clerk seems a much bigger challenge,one which I haven't been able to overcome yet!
DMV is refusing to issue a new title without the tax!!

So here's my question,
I have the bill of sale,odometer/warranty paper and the affidavit.Is it 100% necessary to transfer to title in my name in Ohio?
Can I use the bill of sale and the signed title (current) at the border crossing?

[dotcalamitie]

No one will do the Daytime Running Light conversion for me. I went in for fog lights, the fog light guy says no. Toyota won't touch it. What do I do?

[diigii]

I have a $25 solution to your problem. Go to Canadian Tire, buy the generic DRL module for $24.99 and install it yourself. Just connect the low-beam wire to your fog lights so your main headlight connection doesn't get tampered with. They're the most important for your car, anyway.

No one will do the Daytime Running Light conversion for me. I went in for fog lights, the fog light guy says no. Toyota won't touch it. What do I do?

[coolcoolfi]

They may need your US driver's license.

In regards to not paying sales tax, here's what I did. I recently purchased a '07 Saturn Sky Redline (3000 miles) from a dealership in Las Vegas. Since I own a winter residence in Arizona, all I had to do was provide them with this address. I did not have to pay Nevada sales tax. They gave me a 15 day permit to bring the car back to Arizona. A Nevada title from the previous owner was mailed to me in a week. I had already bought an insurance policy from Geico, so my insurance needs were covered. Now, I suppose I could have headed north instead of bringing it back to Arizona, but I wanted to enjoy it down here for the next five months. As it was, I had to pay the sales tax and registration fee to put it on the road in Arizona, but to me, that was worth it. I couldn't see buying a car and just parking it for the next five months. So, I'm assuming that if a dealer was to accept a U.S. Post Office box number as your address, and gave you a permit, you could probably drive back to Canada without paying sales tax.

[DrXenon]

It is the titling process that the manufacturers use to determine where the vehicle is sold to.

Um, I think the titling process is entirely independent of the address the dealer gives to the manufacturer's bureaucracy. The manufacturer has no access to the title information held at any state Department of Motor Vehicles.

[dotcalamitie]

I wonder if I just go back to Crappy Tire an tell them to put a screw into the Headlight on/off switch. That would then be considered DRL.

[michelb]

I wonder if I just go back to Crappy Tire an tell them to put a screw into the Headlight on/off switch. That would then be considered DRL.

Or you can take a chance and just go to CT for the inspection 'as-is'. When I did mine, the guy just asked if I had DRL, I said yes (since I did) but he never actually asked me to turn them on or checked so I would have passed even without them (in my case I had 'hard-wired' the fog lamps to be on all the time if the ignition is on)

As a more permanent solution, if you have fog lamps and the switch is powered by the ignition (i.e. even if you leave them on, they turn off when you remove the key). Depending on where the switch is, this might be very easy (you basically just have to tape both wires going to the switch together (there might be 3 wires if, like mine, the switch has a light in it)).

[J233]

Guess this dealer has never sold to Canadians, he is confused about the process. But since the car has low milage with reasonable price I think I have to be patient.

I see. Yes, definitely ! If you like the guy and he wants your business you can keep grooming him and close the sale. This is what happened to me - a bit of work, patience and persistance but it was worth it :)

[DSTU]

My letter to RIV:

Hello,

Can you tell me why you need a letter of admissibility to import a BMW
into Canada, no other Car manufacturers require this?
What's so special about BMW? Can you also tell me why before BMW
re-wrote the rules of importation that you did not need a letter of
admissibility and now you do?

What gives?

Their Response

If you wish to import any BMW into Canada then, please contact an
authorized Canadian BMW or MINI Retailer to request a letter of
admissibility and for information regarding the exact nature and costs
of modifications required. The modifications vary by model and may be
expensive. ALL modifications MUST be performed by an authorized Canadian
BMW or MINI Retailer and must be completed before a recall clearance
letter can be issued by BMW Group Canada. Prior to reviewing your
request for a letter of admissibility, the following information must be
provided:

- Model
- Model year
- 17-digit Vehicle Identification Number (VIN)

An official letter of admissibility from BMW Group Canada must be
presented to a Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) officer at time of
importation. In addition, the official recall clearance letter obtained
from BMW Group
Canada once the required retrofits have been completed and documented by
an authorized Canadian BMW or Mini Retailer must be presented to the
Registrar of Imported Vehicles in order to properly register a vehicle.


Under the Motor Vehicle Safety Act the responsibility for bringing an
imported vehicle into compliance with Canadian safety regulations lies
entirely with the importer; the RIV cannot be held responsible for any
reason should the importer fail to complete the process successfully.
Any information provided by the RIV is strictly based on the facts
presented by the importer and reliance upon such information is at the
importer's discretion.

The information contained in this email is intended to assist
individuals interested in importing a vehicle from the United States,
and contains information on the admissibility of various makes, models,
model years and class of vehicles provided by the original equipment
manufacturer. This information is contained on the List of Vehicles
Admissible Form the United States which is available to the public on
our web site at www.riv.ca or directly at:

http://www.riv.ca/english/US_vehicle_admissibility.pdf

The admissibility of any particular make, model and model year of
vehicle can only be ultimately determined by a) the presentation of the
vehicle to Canada Customs at the time of importation, b) the decoding of
the VIN contained on the vehicle import form - form 1 as presented to
Canada Customs, and c) the successful completion of the federal
inspection.


Regards

xxx xxxx

My response

What is the reason that we need to get BMW's permission to import a vehicle. Last month we did not need their permission, now we do and we are forced to pay them thousands of dollars for no real work.

I could understand that any future vehicles from a certain date will need the letter of admissibility, but why is it retroactive to before this date. For the immobilizer issue it was any importation after Sept 1, 2007.

Can you give me the official reason for this change of policy?

[J233]

We're only 12,000 reads away from taking the lead for the "all-time" most popular thread on RFDs.

No wonder it's so popular, with anyone potentially saving THOUSANDS of dollars on a US car purchase, the deal is HOTTER than most all others on this site combined!

With over 30,000 cars being imported in November, you know the word's getting out.

I'm still waiting for the DesRosiers reprint of the article claiming that US sales are not significant enough to warrant any concern!

"not significant enough to warrant any concern!" I hope he better does his homework this time and throws the towel in. Why ? The numbers/volume are the proof. When I crossed last Saturday the Cdn Custom lady told me that she was doing nothing all her shift but FORM1 and it was 7 PM. Today, I went to Cdn Tire - waited 50 minutes for my turn. During that time there were 3 of us at the desk with FORM2. So, one location, one hr...volumes are huge !

[reddy54]

They may need your US driver's license.

My experience is that a PO box is not enough. A Toyota dealer in northern USA however was willing to accept a Mail Boxes Etc type address in a low tax state but insisted that I show him a utility bill or a bank statement addressed to that address. This is not a problem since all I had to do was open a bank account and have statements mailed to that address. I could have also subscribed to a cell phone for a couple of months and had the bill sent to that address to meet the test.

[Snugster24]

If anyone is running into a problem with the clearance letter from a manufacturer, here's what I have discovered with Toyota....

Each person you talk to has a different take on what you is required to issue a clearance letter. Keep calling and you will find the person that is the problem solver.

For instance, my issue with recall item (all wx floor mats recall but not installed). After exhausting a cdn and us dealership to no avail...I finally spoke with a Toyota Motor Sales rep who simply faxed me a doc that asked if I had the floor mats....I checked no and filled out my name and address...

...he says that will allow him to remove the recall on my vehicle...simply but it has taken nearly 10 days for this to happen.

Had RIV simply accepted the letter I originally sent that complied with all their requests stated on their recall page, it would have been easy.

After reading through the 700 or so pages....well browsed...is seems the RIV people like to change things often.

[reddy54]

They may need your US driver's license.

USA drivers licence not required only proof of residency in the USA needed

[longdong]

Just got the vehicle inspection form today from Riv.

One interessting note:

"Confirm the date of manufacture; if manufactured after September 1st, 2007 contact RIV immediately as the vehicle is inadmissible."

Also for the Recall letter, only the Recall letter is not acceptable (I sent them the letter, and then I called RIV again, and it's not enough, they also need the printout check from computer also) , I need to send them 3 pages (1 recall letter, 1 page from Dealer computer: Service date of first use information, 1 page from CLAIM history)


But after receiving my 3 pages, RIV sent me right away the vehicle inspection from for my new Toyota Sienna LE 2008

[Snugster24]

My letter to RIV:

Hello,

Can you tell me why you need a letter of admissibility to import a BMW
into Canada, no other Car manufacturers require this?
What's so special about BMW? Can you also tell me why before BMW
re-wrote the rules of importation that you did not need a letter of
admissibility and now you do?

What gives?

I shortened this for the quote.... - Snugster24

My response

What is the reason that we need to get BMW's permission to import a vehicle. Last month we did not need their permission, now we do and we are forced to pay them thousands of dollars for no real work.

I could understand that any future vehicles from a certain date will need the letter of admissibility, but why is it retroactive to before this date. For the immobilizer issue it was any importation after Sept 1, 2007.

Can you give me the official reason for this change of policy?

Probably $$'s no doubt...

[Snugster24]

Just got the vehicle inspection form today from Riv.

One interessting note:

"Confirm the date of manufacture; if manufactured after September 1st, 2007 contact RIV immediately as the vehicle is inadmissible."

Also for the Recall letter, only the Recall letter is not acceptable (I sent them the letter, and then I called RIV again, and it's not enough, they also need the printout check from computer also) , I need to send them 3 pages (1 recall letter, 1 page from Dealer computer: Service date of first use information, 1 page from CLAIM history)


But after receiving my 3 pages, RIV sent me right away the vehicle inspection from for my new Toyota Sienna LE 2008


What exactly are they referring to when saying "printout check from computer" and "claim history"...this seems different?

[scouzi]

I'll tell ya, some dealers are having a hard time letting go of their superior attitude. Case in point is that I went to Camco Acura in Ottawa and wanted to discuss MDX pricing. After discussing the general merits of the SUV we get to the business of $$$. I point blank pointed out to the Acura 7 to 9K rebate. He was kind of , eh..eh, well let me check...
Finally, after he acknowledged the Acura rebate (He kept refering to it as a discount, as if it came from him), I stated that now we need to negotiate the price of the vehicle starting from the invoice price. His response: No other discount is available. I pointed to him that he did not expect me to buy a car at MSRP! He did not seem to be swayed in any way. To top it off, he somehow saw my 2006 Van and asked me if I would be willing to Trade. I said yes, he face lit up and started telling me that the price of used cars has crashed and how I should not expect much for it.
I just walked away....


Exactly. As far as he's concerned, he would be selling the car at full MSRP. The rebate is yours and not his. The price should be negotiated as if the rebate never existed and then applied afterwards.

[Kamloops]

No one will do the Daytime Running Light conversion for me. I went in for fog lights, the fog light guy says no. Toyota won't touch it. What do I do?

Search the web, there is loads of info on this. Crappy tire will do it.

http://www.webelectricproducts.com/products.htm

Found this
http://priuschat.com/forums/showpost.php?p=329511&postcount=6

You can add DRLs to your Prius fairly easy. (Web Electic Products makes a module which converts your front turn signals to DRLs similar to what GM does on a lot of their cars. The kit comes with an excellent set of installation directions and all of the parts needed.

I've installed their module on my Prius and one other car - both work flawlessly. I prefer the look of the turn signal DRLs to the high beam DRLs.

[dsds]

This question of mine just came to mind since I remember what Toyota Canada's press release in the summer about the merits of buying a made-for-Canada Toyota against a US-spec Toyota.

So if we take that press release to what it claims, do any of your US-bought Toyotas have experienced battery failures? Have you ran out of windshield washer fluid quickly than normal because you didn't have "high-capacity reservoirs? Have your not-so-heavy-duty radiators over heated or your heater-core failed to warm you up in our bitter cold wintery weather as of late?

It's all a bunch of crap, EH? :cheesygri I just couldn't resist! :lol:


The worst is that Toyota.ca shows a mandatory Block Heater charge of $214. My import didn't have a block heater. Ordered one from online toyota parts place = $31 and it took 1/2 hr to install. Explain the difference on that.

[toystoys]

Could someone help me understand this,

I purchased a used vehicle from an Ohio dealer.The dealer just called me saying that the DMV is asking for sales tax to transfer the title into my name.I'm inclined to believe him since I just called the Ohio Department of Taxation and spent a good 20min before I managed to get them to read their own tax code (5739.029) and confirm the tax exemption!
However transferring that confirmation from the Ohio Tax Department clerk to the OHIO's DMV clerk seems a much bigger challenge,one which I haven't been able to overcome yet!
DMV is refusing to issue a new title without the tax!!

So here's my question,
I have the bill of sale,odometer/warranty paper and the affidavit.Is it 100% necessary to transfer to title in my name in Ohio?
Can I use the bill of sale and the signed title (current) at the border crossing?

I bought one 2 months back (2006 Honda Pilot) from an Ohio lot selling used only. He had the title in the dealership name and tranferred it to me, (the buyer) on the back of the title. I would recommend to only buy used if the seller has a clear title in their name, in hand. Paid no Ohio tax, he put a temp tag in the rear window. Paid the cost of the car and $170 document fees. No taxes were paid until I arrived at the Canada Customs side and paid GST. Anyone selling a used car should have a clear title in their name, IN HAND.

As RIV states, faxed both sides of the title and BoS to North Portal (US side) 72 hours in advance of driving it across. My name was placed on the back of the title by the dealer. You need a title signed over to you. RIV said they would take care of my recall letter if Honda USA was not cooperating, and they were not. Honda USA told me it couldn't be done, the lying bastiches said it was a grey market car. I told them they were full of it and demanded a superior to speak with. After some debate this manager finally admitted they were misleading Canucks deliberately and said she would try to get management to change their approach to callers. Don't think they did so. I will never but a new Honda, they were purposely lying to deter me from exporting. RIV took care of the recall issue.

[03terminator]

He may be a dreamer, that doesn't mean he can't be right ... but doesn't preclude him from being wrong either. I was wondering whether this would start happening so I just did the price comparison of 2008 Mazda5 GT without options. I had to do it on the GT because it is the only USA model with an immobilizer. Also, I realize the two trims are not exactly alike, for instance in Canada you can apparently get a GT with a manual transmission, while in the USA it is not available. Anywho ...

CDN/USA/%diff
MSRP 24815/22365/9.87
Invoice 23159/20923/9.65
market 23853/21995/7.79
Dest 1390/635/54

subtotal 25243/22630/10
duty -----/23987/--
GST 1514.63/1357.80/--
PST 1767.06/1679.15/--

subtotal 28525.46/27024.75/5.26

Loan/Fin 2152.45(2.9%@60mnts)/4891.85(6.75%@60mnts)

GrandTotal 30677.91/31916.60/-4.03%

So it appears that for this NEW model that the price differental is actually better in Canada. I am not sure if this is an abberation in the market or not. Anyone care to look over the numbers to point out stuff, please do so ... when I decide to pull the trigger I don't want to be the one shot, right?!

Completely wrong. The US GT has leather and auto. So, when you compare identical vehicles.

Cdn Mazda 5 Gt Auto lthr w dest = 28435

US Mazda 5 Gt Auto lthr w dest = 23000


Add 6.1% duty to the US price = 24403 vs 28436 CDN = $4033 more in Canada. That said the savings aren't great and other vehicles would have a greater incentive to import.

[longdong]

The RIV wants the print out from computer to confirm there is no recall (what did dealer see on screen to confirm there is no recall from their computer)

What exactly are they referring to when saying "printout check from computer" and "claim history"...this seems different?

[Nitol]

I bought one 2 months back (2006 Honda Pilot) from an Ohio lot selling used only. He had the title in the dealership name and tranferred it to me, (the buyer) on the back of the title. I would recommend to only buy used if the seller has a clear title in their name, in hand. Paid no Ohio tax, he put a temp tag in the rear window. Paid the cost of the car and $170 document fees. No taxes were paid until I arrived at the Canada Customs side and paid GST. Anyone selling a used car should have a clear title in their name, IN HAND.

As RIV states, faxed both sides of the title and BoS to North Portal (US side) 72 hours in advance of driving it across. My name was placed on the back of the title by the dealer. You need a title signed over to you. RIV said they would take care of my recall letter if Honda USA was not cooperating, and they were not. Honda USA told me it couldn't be done, the lying bastiches said it was a grey market car. I told them they were full of it and demanded a superior to speak with. After some debate this manager finally admitted they were misleading Canucks deliberately and said she would try to get management to change their approach to callers. Don't think they did so. I will never but a new Honda, they were purposely lying to deter me from exporting. RIV took care of the recall issue.

Thanks for your reply.
I believe I'm in a very bad situation.The dealer has the full amount we agreed to.He's refusing just to sign over the title.He says he won't give me a refund either.He says that DMV is requesting the tax.
Don't really know what to do,I just know I won't do this again :evil:

[vim]

As I understand from reading here, you cannot more fax title to Lewiston/Queenston bridge crossing. So what would be logistics in this case? Can dealer actually send original Title to customs? Anyone done that? Are there any other crossings close by Toronto that accept faxes?
Or is there a place by the border where you can leave car for a few days?

Thanks

[03terminator]

Thanks for your reply.
I believe I'm in a very bad situation.The dealer has the full amount we agreed to.He's refusing just to sign over the title.He says he won't give me a refund either.He says that DMV is requesting the tax.
Don't really know what to do,I just know I won't do this again :evil:

You only pay tax if you retitle in that state. You are not. You are essentially retitling in Canada, no tax is owed in OHIO. It seems that the dealer doesn't know the rules. They should sign the title to you and your off. Did you purchase an ex-lease vehicle?

[03terminator]

You only pay tax if you retitle in that state. You are not. You are essentially retitling in Canada, no tax is owed in OHIO. It seems that the dealer doesn't know the rules. They should sign the title to you and your off. Did you purchase an ex-lease vehicle?

Looks like a new statute

http://www.obg.ohio.gov/genoverviewDNRMVST.shtml

New Ohio statute, R.C. 5739.029, provides that motor vehicle dealers collect Ohio sales tax when selling a vehicle(s) to a resident of a state where that state charges sales tax to Ohio residents, or to residents of other countries. For a temporary time period from August 1, 2007 until June 30, 2008, the tax collected on sales of vehicles to residents of Arizona, California, Florida, Indiana, Massachusetts, Michigan, South Carolina and Washington will be paid directly to the State of Ohio through OBG, instead of the County Clerks of Courts. After July 1, 2008, the tax will be paid to the Clerk of Courts as done with all other motor vehicle transactions.

After completing the online form and providing any required ACH payment information, OBG sends the tax data and payment information directly to ODT and provides the taxpayer with a confirmation of the filing.


Maybe you can get it back?

[joejack]

No one will do the Daytime Running Light conversion for me. I went in for fog lights, the fog light guy says no. Toyota won't touch it. What do I do?

I bought 2007 Honda Odyssey LX from Dallas Texas two weeks ago. Today I stopped off at CarQuest in Markham ON ( www.carquest.ca for locations) and purchased Hamsar part # 45020 (www.hamsar.com for details) which is a day time running light kit for all light at 24% reduced light. I paid $34 for it. My father in law will install it for me as I am not handy. He is a retired mechanic and says it will take him under 20 minutes to do the job.

If you can't figure out how, e-mail me and I will give you his contact details. I am sure for a beer he would do it for you as well.

Regards.

[Whitedart]

Could someone help me understand this,

I purchased a used vehicle from an Ohio dealer.The dealer just called me saying that the DMV is asking for sales tax to transfer the title into my name.I'm inclined to believe him since I just called the Ohio Department of Taxation and spent a good 20min before I managed to get them to read their own tax code (5739.029) and confirm the tax exemption!
However transferring that confirmation from the Ohio Tax Department clerk to the OHIO's DMV clerk seems a much bigger challenge,one which I haven't been able to overcome yet!
DMV is refusing to issue a new title without the tax!!

So here's my question,
I have the bill of sale,odometer/warranty paper and the affidavit.Is it 100% necessary to transfer to title in my name in Ohio?
Can I use the bill of sale and the signed title (current) at the border crossing?

NItol, I was discussing a Honda purchase with an Ohio dealer, and we left it hanging as he indicated that if the vehicle is picked up and a tempory permit issued, Ohio sales tax would be applicable. If the vehicle shipped out of state, then tax would be exempted.

www.carburner.com has documents that inidicate how Ohio sales tax is applied or exempted. http://www.carburner.com/index.php?title=Ohio

The dealer I dealt with insisted tax was applicable if the car driven off the lot.
Maybe these documents will help you.

Do you care to name the dealer? Mine was in northern Ohio.

[03terminator]

NItol, I was discussing a Honda purchase with an Ohio dealer, and we left it hanging as he indicated that if the vehicle is picked up and a tempory permit issued, Ohio sales tax would be applicable. If the vehicle shipped out of state, then tax would be exempted.

www.carburner.com has documents that inidicate how Ohio sales tax is applied or exempted. http://www.carburner.com/index.php?title=Ohio

The dealer I dealt with insisted tax was applicable if the car driven off the lot.
Maybe these documents will help you.

Do you care to name the dealer? Mine was in northern Ohio.

Good point. I forgot about the pick up issue.

[georgetoy]

As I understand from reading here, you cannot more fax title to Lewiston/Queenston bridge crossing. So what would be logistics in this case? Can dealer actually send original Title to customs? Anyone done that? Are there any other crossings close by Toronto that accept faxes?
Or is there a place by the border where you can leave car for a few days?


My Hyundai dealer faxed the docs to Lewiston on Nov 28 and I picked up the car on Dec 5. There was no need to physically bring the certificate to the border. Several people on this forum confirmed this as well with me over PMs. My dealer also told me that he is still sending Canadian customers across the border (on average 2 a day) with faxes being sent.

[Nitol]

In regard to New Ohio statute, R.C. 5739.029 maybe I can clarify it a bit.
Even the Ohio Tax department told me initially that the tax is due.However after I refered them to 5739.029 itself,they agreed that no tax is required.
Here's a direct quote from New Ohio statute, R.C. 5739.029;


A) Notwithstanding sections 5739.02, 5739.021, 5739.023, 5739.026, 5741.02, 5741.021, 5741.022, and 5741.023 of the Revised Code, and except as otherwise provided in division (B) of this section, the tax due under this chapter on the sale of a motor vehicle required to be titled under Chapter 4505. of the Revised Code by a motor vehicle dealer to a consumer that is a nonresident of this state shall be the lesser of the amount of tax that would be due under this chapter and Chapter 5741. of the Revised Code if the total combined rate were six per cent, or the amount of tax that would be due, to the state in which the consumer titles or registers the motor vehicle or to which the consumer removes the vehicle for use.

(B) No tax is due under this section, any other section of this chapter, or Chapter 5741. of the Revised Code under any of the following circumstances:

(1)(a) The consumer intends to immediately remove the motor vehicle from this state for use outside this state;

(b) Upon removal of the motor vehicle from this state, the consumer intends to title or register the vehicle in another state if such titling or registration is required;

(c) The consumer executes an affidavit as required under division (C) of this section affirming the consumer's intentions under divisions (B)(1)(a) and (b) of this section;


http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/5739.029

The dealer refuses just to sign over the title.He says he's required to transfer the title.DMV won't bother with reading a piece of legislation.Tax department says they agree with me but they have no authority over DMV.It's f u c k e d up :mad:

[Whitedart]

In regard to New Ohio statute, R.C. 5739.029 maybe I can clarify it a bit.
Even the Ohio Tax department told me initially that the tax is due.However after I refered them to 5739.029 itself,they agreed that no tax is required.
Here's a direct quote from New Ohio statute, R.C. 5739.029;


A) Notwithstanding sections 5739.02, 5739.021, 5739.023, 5739.026, 5741.02, 5741.021, 5741.022, and 5741.023 of the Revised Code, and except as otherwise provided in division (B) of this section, the tax due under this chapter on the sale of a motor vehicle required to be titled under Chapter 4505. of the Revised Code by a motor vehicle dealer to a consumer that is a nonresident of this state shall be the lesser of the amount of tax that would be due under this chapter and Chapter 5741. of the Revised Code if the total combined rate were six per cent, or the amount of tax that would be due, to the state in which the consumer titles or registers the motor vehicle or to which the consumer removes the vehicle for use.

(B) No tax is due under this section, any other section of this chapter, or Chapter 5741. of the Revised Code under any of the following circumstances:

(1)(a) The consumer intends to immediately remove the motor vehicle from this state for use outside this state;

(b) Upon removal of the motor vehicle from this state, the consumer intends to title or register the vehicle in another state if such titling or registration is required;

(c) The consumer executes an affidavit as required under division (C) of this section affirming the consumer's intentions under divisions (B)(1)(a) and (b) of this section;


http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/5739.029

The dealer refuses just to sign over the title.He says he's required to transfer the title.DMV won't bother with reading a piece of legislation.Tax department says they agree with me but they have no authority over DMV.It's f u c k e d up :mad:

Nitol,

has the affidavit been submitted indicating that the vehicle will be titled outside the state of Ohio, and in a state that does not have an agreement with Ohio to collect sales tax?

[mdbuffy]

# allan says:
December 6th, 2007 at 11:27 pm

I read a recent report that said something like 500,000 vehicles are coming off lease in 2008.

Lets assume that’s correct and lets assume the leasing companies take say a $4000 hit on the residual of each vehicle coming off lease due to the downward pressures on new car prices.

That’s a $2 BILLION hit. Even if the assumptions are off by a factor of 2 it’s still a $ Billion

No wonder the industry is working so hard to protect Canadian market pricing, even to the point of stretching the truth about immobilizers
# Michael Buffy says:
December 7th, 2007 at 6:21 pm

That’s a pittance compared to the $5 BILLION PLUS that Canadians have been paying in premiums over U.S. pricing for a long time.

OK…how’d I get $5 BILLION

1,700,000 new vehicles sold each year in Canada (per Stats Can)
$20,000 my guess at a conservative (low) price for the average car
15% my conservative guesstimate of percentage premium paid by Canadians…but we can visit www.talesoftwoprices.com and find 25% to 45% premiums.
$3,000 premium per vehicle $20,000 x 15%
$5.1 BILLION Out of our pockets and out of our country for the most part (i.e. dividends to parent company)
The auto industry has a partner called the Government of Canada that gets sales taxes so you can assume the $20,000 includes or excludes the sales tax but for the sake of this exercise I am assuming that the $20,000 excludes sales tax so the Government of Canada gets $250,000,000 to buy us off with all sort of wonderful announcements just before the next election.

Have I made an error anywhere here?

From www.carswithoutborders.com

[niceguy1234]

How successefully that we can bargain & reduce the price when the dealer know you come from Canada, and exporting the car. Do I expecting to pay the MSRP, or something between MSRP & invoice will be fair?

[Nitol]

Nitol,

has the affidavit been submitted indicating that the vehicle will be titled outside the state of Ohio, and in a state that does not have an agreement with Ohio to collect sales tax?

Yes it has.
The problem is since the new tax code has ben put in place in Aug,2007,the DMV clerks think they are now been required to collect taxes from Canadians despite explaination by the code itself.
When you tell them that they come back with "oh that was the old code,the new code says we should collect tax" yet they refuse to read the tax code itself which I posted!!
Ohio's tax department finally agreed with me but the DMV doesn't even want to be bothered.

[the Bez]

This may have been asked before, but is the title or MSO on a new car given to you by the dealer when you pick it up? OR do you need to wait for the title to be mailed out?

The concern is if you find a dealer that will sell to you even if you don't have a US address, but you need the title to cross the border, how are importers of NEW cars doing this?

Again, sorry if this has been asked before but some help would be much appreciated.

[2ride4life]

Completely wrong. The US GT has leather and auto. So, when you compare identical vehicles.

Cdn Mazda 5 Gt Auto lthr w dest = 28435

US Mazda 5 Gt Auto lthr w dest = 23000


Add 6.1% duty to the US price = 24403 vs 28436 CDN = $4033 more in Canada. That said the savings aren't great and other vehicles would have a greater incentive to import.

This is why this thread is great ... people just helping out because they can. Much appreciated:cheesygri
I agree that the savings are relatively small compared to the subaru savings that other have benefited from for example.

[mangoman]

Add these rebates on top of the piddly Manufacturer's rebates (of course you might have to wait upto a year to get the money from the govt based on what's happened so far!) :lol:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/programs/environment/ecotransport/2008ecoautoeligibility.htm

Toyota Prius
Rebate: $2000
1.5 L, 4 cylinder
Continuously Variable Transmission
CFCR = 4.1 L/100 km


Honda Civic Hybrid
Rebate: $2000
1.3 L, 4 cylinder
Continuously Variable Transmission
CFCR = 4.5 L/100 km



Smart ForTwo (Coupe)
Rebate: $2000
1.0 L, 3 cylinder
5-Speed Automatic with Manual Mode
CFCR = 5.4 L/100 km



Smart ForTwo (Convertible)
Rebate: $2000
1.0 L, 3 cylinder
5-Speed Automatic with Manual Mode
CFCR = 5.4 L/100 km



Ford Escape Hybrid FWD
Rebate: $2000
2.3 L, 4 cylinder
Continuously Variable Transmission
CFCR = 6.1 L/100 km



Ford Escape Hybrid AWD
Rebate: $2000
2.3 L, 4 cylinder
Continuously Variable Transmission
CFCR = 7.0 L/100 km



Saturn VUE Hybrid
Rebate: $2000
2.4 L, 4 cylinder
4-Speed Automatic
CFCR = 7.3 L/100 km



Toyota Camry Hybrid
Rebate: $1500
2.4 L, 4 cylinder
Continuously Variable Transmission
CFCR = 5.7 L/100 km


Nissan Altima Hybrid
Rebate: $1500
2.5 L, 4 cylinder
Continuously Variable Transmission (AV)
CFCR = 5.8 L/100 km



Toyota Highlander Hybrid 4x4
Rebate: $1500
3.3 L, 6 cylinder
Continuously Variable Transmission
CFCR = 7.7 L/100 km



Toyota Corolla
Rebate: $1000
1.8 L, 4 cylinder
5-Speed Manual
CFCR = 6.3 L/100 km


Toyota Yaris
Rebate: $1000
1.5 L, 4 cylinder
5-Speed Manual
CFCR = 6.3 L/100 km
Hatchback / Sedan





Mini Cooper Clubman
Rebate: $1000
1.6 L, 4 cylinder
6-Speed Manual
CFCR = 6.3 L/100 km


Mini Cooper
Rebate: $1000
1.6 L, 4 cylinder
6-Speed Manual
CFCR = 6.3 L/100 km


Toyota Yaris
Rebate: $1000
1.5 L, 4 cylinder
4-Speed Automatic
CFCR = 6.4 L/100 km
Hatchback / Sedan




Honda Civic (2-door)
Rebate: $1000
1.8 L, 4 cylinder
5-Speed Manual
CFCR = 6.5 L/100 km


Honda Civic (4-door)
Rebate: $1000
1.8 L, 4 cylinder
5-Speed Manual
CFCR = 6.5 L/100 km


Honda Fit
Rebate: $1000
1.5 L, 4 cylinder
5-Speed Manual
CFCR = 6.5 L/100 km



Lexus RX 400H 4WD
Rebate: $1000
3.3 L, 6 cylinder
Continuously Variable Transmission
CFCR = 8.1 L/100 km



Jeep Compass 2x4
Rebate: $1000
2.4 L, 4 cylinder
5-Speed Manual
CFCR = 8.1 L/100 km



Jeep Patriot 2x4
Rebate: $1000
2.4 L, 4 cylinder
5-Speed Manual
CFCR = 8.1 L/100 km



Chevrolet HHR FWD
Rebate: $1000
2.2 L, 4 cylinder
4-Speed Automatic
CFCR = 8.2 L/100 km



Chevrolet HHR Panel FWD
Rebate: $1000
2.2 L, 4 cylinder
4-Speed Automatic
CFCR = 8.2 L/100 km


Nissan Rogue FWD
Rebate: $1000
2.5 L, 4 cylinder
Continuously Variable Transmission (AV)
CFCR = 8.3 L/100 km





Jeep Compass 4x4
Rebate: $1000
2.4 L, 4 cylinder
5-Speed Manual
CFCR = 8.3 L/100 km



Jeep Patriot 4x4
Rebate: $1000
2.4 L, 4 cylinder
5-Speed Manual
CFCR = 8.3 L/100 km



Jeep Compass 2x4
Rebate: $1000
2.0 L, 4 cylinder
Continuously Variable Transmission
CFCR = 8.3 L/100 km



Jeep Patriot 2x4
Rebate: $1000
2.0 L, 4 cylinder
Continuously Variable Transmission
CFCR = 8.3 L/100 km



CFCR - 'Combined Fuel Consumption Rating' as submitted by each vehicle's manufacturer to Transport Canada's Vehicle Fuel Efficiency Information System. This value can be approximated by adding 55% of the vehicle's city fuel consumption rating to 45% of the vehicle's highway fuel consumption rating.

* Models may not be exactly as shown.

Top of Page2008 Model Year Flex-fuel Vehicle ecoAUTO Eligibility


Chevrolet Impala FFV
Rebate: $1000
3.5 L, 6 cylinder
4-Speed Automatic
CFCR (E-85) = 12.3 L/100 km



Dodge Avenger FFV
Rebate: $1000
2.7 L, 6 cylinder
4-Speed Automatic
CFCR (E-85) = 12.7 L/100 km



Chrysler Sebring Sedan FFV
Rebate: $1000
2.7 L, 6 cylinder
4-Speed Automatic
CFCR (E-85)= 12.7 L/100 km



Chevrolet Impala FFV
Rebate: $1000
3.9 L, 6 cylinder
4-Speed Automatic
CFCR (E-85) = 13.0 L/100 km



CFCR - 'Combined Fuel Consumption Rating' as submitted by each vehicle's manufacturer to Transport Canada's Vehicle Fuel Efficiency Information System. This value can be approximated by adding 55% of the vehicle's city fuel consumption rating to 45% of the vehicle's highway fuel consumption rating.

[foo2000]

Thanks for this great thread! I've been reading it for couple months as I'm going to replace my old Sienna. Today my email box just got a newsletter (been Toyota's customer for 7 years, it's the first time to get their promotion newsletter! They are so hungery now!:lol: ) from Toyota Canada with new promotions. I'll see what's up in next month! :D

======= news letter ============
With today's strong dollar,
Toyota is able to bring you our best offer ever.
Get all this during the Toyota Wrap-Up - on now until January 2, 2008:

* As low as 0.9%** APR Finance rates on select models
* Up to $5,000 Cash back or gas gift card equivalent on select models†
* New Lower starting MSRP on 2008 Prius, Tundra & Highlander Hybrid
* 1%* Pre-GST Reduction until December 31, 2007
* $0 security deposit on all qualifying 2007 and 2008 leases***

It's the most wonderful time of the year. And it's the most wonderful time to get into a new Toyota! The Toyota Wrap-Up brings you so many great ways to save, you might want to take a moment to get all the details from your local Toyota dealer. Just don't wait too long. Because like the holidays, this offer won't last forever. The Toyota Wrap-Up ends January 2, 2008.

Get 0.9%** on all these models:
2008 Yaris 2008 Matrix 2008 Highlander
2008 Yaris Hatchback 2008 Corolla

[J233]

Yes it has.
The problem is since the new tax code has ben put in place in Aug,2007,the DMV clerks think they are now been required to collect taxes from Canadians despite explaination by the code itself.
When you tell them that they come back with "oh that was the old code,the new code says we should collect tax" yet they refuse to read the tax code itself which I posted!!
Ohio's tax department finally agreed with me but the DMV doesn't even want to be bothered.

OK, try this with our dealer. Tell him to get in touch with a towing company, some business that can issue a freight bill for, let's say transporting your vehicle out of state to Erie, PA. Get the signed affidavit (you will need to notarize your signature) with that freight invoice/bill to their DMV and try to get the title transferred in your name.
I think the dealer just wants to keep the title on file for their records. You really don't need to get the title in your name to get your car exported. All the dealer has to do that will work for US Customs is to write your name and address on the other side of the document. This gets faxed to the border and then you show up with the original.

[J233]

OK, try this with our dealer. Tell him to get in touch with a towing company, some business that can issue a freight bill for, let's say transporting your vehicle out of state to Erie, PA. Get the signed affidavit (you will need to notarize your signature) with that freight invoice/bill to their DMV and try to get the title transferred in your name.
I think the dealer just wants to keep the title on file for their records. You really don't need to get the title in your name to get your car exported. All the dealer has to do that will work for US Customs is to write your name and address on the other side of the document. This gets faxed to the border and then you show up with the original.
sorry I meant - your dealer, not our dealer.....fat fingers:)

[Nitol]

OK, try this with our dealer. Tell him to get in touch with a towing company, some business that can issue a freight bill for, let's say transporting your vehicle out of state to Erie, PA. Get the signed affidavit (you will need to notarize your signature) with that freight invoice/bill to their DMV and try to get the title transferred in your name.
I think the dealer just wants to keep the title on file for their records. You really don't need to get the title in your name to get your car exported. All the dealer has to do that will work for US Customs is to write your name and address on the other side of the document. This gets faxed to the border and then you show up with the original.

I've already asked him to just sign the title over to my name and let me worry about the paperwork.He just won't budge.
His point is (right or wrong),he's legally obligated as a licenced Auto dealer in Ohio to transfer the title to the purchaser's name.He says that he's already tried unsuccessfully to do the transfer with no luck,therefore I have to give him the tax.
It apears I'm left with the following choices;
1-Pay the tax
2-Sue the dealer for a refund
3-Perhaps leave for Ohio and stay there for 3-4 days,take the title and try to resolve the issue myself with the DMV.

I hate all those options but the first one seems less costly (~$500)

[LoDown]

======= news letter ============
With today's strong dollar,
Toyota is able to bring you our best offer ever.
Get all this during the Toyota Wrap-Up - on now until January 2, 2008:

* As low as 0.9%** APR Finance rates on select models
* Up to $5,000 Cash back or gas gift card equivalent on select models†
* New Lower starting MSRP on 2008 Prius, Tundra & Highlander Hybrid
* 1%* Pre-GST Reduction until December 31, 2007
* $0 security deposit on all qualifying 2007 and 2008 leases***

It's the most wonderful time of the year. And it's the most wonderful time to get into a new Toyota! The Toyota Wrap-Up brings you so many great ways to save, you might want to take a moment to get all the details from your local Toyota dealer. Just don't wait too long. Because like the holidays, this offer won't last forever. The Toyota Wrap-Up ends January 2, 2008.

Get 0.9%** on all these models:
2008 Yaris 2008 Matrix 2008 Highlander
2008 Yaris Hatchback 2008 Corolla

aaahh, hhaaah, yaaawwwnnnnn.

[baz5]

I've already asked him to just sign the title over to my name and let me worry about the paperwork.He just won't budge.
His point is (right or wrong),he's legally obligated as a licenced Auto dealer in Ohio to transfer the title to the purchaser's name.He says that he's already tried unsuccessfully to do the transfer with no luck,therefore I have to give him the tax.
It apears I'm left with the following choices;
1-Pay the tax
2-Sue the dealer for a refund
3-Perhaps leave for Ohio and stay there for 3-4 days,take the title and try to resolve the issue myself with the DMV.

I hate all those options but the first one seems less costly (~$500)


I never read your story so I may be off base, but tell him to phone any other dealer in the state?

** Nevermind read it's the DMV or atleast he says.

[LoDown]

I've already asked him to just sign the title over to my name and let me worry about the paperwork.He just won't budge.
His point is (right or wrong),he's legally obligated as a licenced Auto dealer in Ohio to transfer the title to the purchaser's name.He says that he's already tried unsuccessfully to do the transfer with no luck,therefore I have to give him the tax.
It apears I'm left with the following choices;
1-Pay the tax
2-Sue the dealer for a refund
3-Perhaps leave for Ohio and stay there for 3-4 days,take the title and try to resolve the issue myself with the DMV.

I hate all those options but the first one seems less costly (~$500)

If it's a used car the DMV in Ontario will accept the 'Bill of Sale' (ensure VIN is on it) instead of the Title (CoO/MSO). At the border (US and Canada) this document should be good enough as well since - US side merely checks the VIN to see if there is a problem with the car (stolen, lien, etc). The Canadian side only likes to see the CoO to determine whether they need to charge Duty (6.1%) - without it they have books they can refer to, so not a problem.

[accorder]

Source: http://www.cbc.ca/news/reportsfromabroad/macdonald/20071207.html

Want a cheaper car? Sorry, you're Canadian
December 7, 2007
Everybody seems to agree that the shiny new 2008 Hondas sitting in the automaker's showrooms all over the United States are superb vehicles. They are redesigned, extremely well-reviewed and a tremendous bargain, at least when compared to the virtually identical versions Honda's Canadian dealers are offering.

But the cars here are off limits to Canadian consumers. Honda and the Canadian government have been seeing to that.

Right now, the big car manufacturers are gouging Canadians. And pandering to Americans. That should be apparent to anyone with a computer and an internet connection.

When it comes to cars, Canadians constitute a captive market, fenced in behind the world's longest economic barrier — the U.S.-Canada border. And Honda, along with most of the other big automakers, is determined to keep them there.

By now, the tactics are pretty well known. Most manufacturers have told their U.S. dealers near the Canadian border to simply refuse Canadian customers. They've also warned that they'll refuse warranty service to Canadians who buy their cars in the States.

Such behaviour should be no surprise. Companies exist to make money and the Canadian consumer has been a fattened cash cow for the automakers since the loonie rose to the same level as the American greenback.

A Honda Accord EX, for example, starts down here at $23,060 in American dollars. The same car in Toronto costs $27,490 Canadian.

Honda's Odyssey EX minivan costs $28,960 US here, as opposed to $36,990 in Canada. At this writing, the currencies are virtually at par.

Where are the breaks?
At the more exotic end of the new car scale, the differences are staggering. GM's Corvette coupe, for example, starts down here at $46,225 US In Canada, it's $70,920.

A Cadillac sedan in the States starts at $50,350 US In Canada, $67,220 Canadian.

And so on.

It wasn't supposed to be this way. Back in 1988, when Brian Mulroney's government was trying to persuade the electorate that free trade was in Canada's best interest, Conservative politicians dangled the prospect of lower consumer prices to nervous, uncertain voters.

Each side would get access to the other's market. The so-called playing field would be leveled. Everything would be cheaper. That voice at the end of the TV commercial that muttered: "Void where prohibited, not available in Canada" would disappear.

And publicly, at least, the private sector made brave noises of support. Rugged free-enterprisers all, they'd compete in an unshackled market to the good of everyone.

The fact is, though, business loves being regulated, at least when it's in their interest. So when the Canadian government promulgated a new regulation in September, stipulating a standard for anti-theft immobilizers in new cars sold in Canada, the car manufacturers, anxious to keep the two markets separate, stampeded to comply.

But it's the same device!
In short order, companies like Honda and GM stated that none of their new, 2008 American models complied with Canadian standards and therefore, regrettably, had to be declared inadmissible to Canada.

In fact, in Honda's case at least, the immobilizers buried in the guts of its American-sold vehicles are identical to the immobilizers in the cars it sells in Canada. Precisely the same, right down to the last wire.
But Canadian government was asking the manufacturers to make the casing housing the immobilizer a little more resistant to cracking. That provided the excuse to declare it inadmissible.

As a result, Transport Canada banned import of the much cheaper American cars. The ones that cost thousands less. What's more, it did it, the department says, for Canadians' own good.

"Where we are coming from is a safety perspective," says Patrick Charette of Transport Canada. How the immobilizer specification would make Canadians safer, Charette wasn't able to say.

The bottom line, says Bruce Cran of the Consumers' Association of Canada, is that "Canadians are being victimized by the car industry, and the government is supporting it."

What consumers want
Who asked for this new immobilizer regulation, asks Cran? "What benefit is this to consumers? It's absolutely none.

"No consumer group ever asked for it, that's for certain. We certainly weren't included in the discussions."

As a result of these rules, about a thousand enterprising Canadians have been stuck with cars they've imported from the U.S. but that can't be driven in Canada. And untold thousands of prospective Canadian buyers are being told by the Transport Canada website that most new cars sold in the U.S. are barred from Canada.

Cran calls it all "pretty disgusting," and he's called on consumers to write their MPs. Which, evidently, they have.

Abruptly, last week, Transport Canada rewrote the immobilizer regulation. It is now open for public comment. If the new regulation makes it into law (and there's no guarantee it will), any American car with any immobilizer, or any American car that can be fitted with one, should be admissible to Canada.

At least on paper.

The fact is, however, the Canadian system leaves it to the car companies to certify new vehicles for admissibility into Canada. And they clearly don't see it as in their interest to have Canadians importing lower-priced vehicles from the States.

Indeed, they like the immobilizer regulation as it is.

Honda of Canada spokesman Jim Miller says the company's Canadian division doesn't want to have to start certifying cars meant for the American market as admissible to Canada. Honda thinks that job ought to be up to the government.

"The consumer may have gotten a political break, but administratively, it's a different matter. It's a bit of a quandary."

One big market
Still, in the end, says a consultant hired to represent automakers, the manufacturers will probably bend, if that's what the Canadian government really wants.

Speaking on condition of anonymity, he concedes that the U.S.-Canada price differential right now is ridiculous and notes that consumer anger has already forced the manufacturers to narrow the gap somewhat.

But, he says, the Harper government is "in a desperate fight to win a majority government, and so populist, so consumer-driven, that nothing else matters. They are making policy on the back of an envelope, and handing it to bureaucrats to fix."

Ottawa, he says, seems to want to moves things to the point where barriers are completely removed, creating a situation in which there is, effectively, complete free trade on cars. And that, he says, will have consequences.

Many production costs are dropping in the U.S., particularly as its dollar declines and automakers have been able to get out from under expensive health care and pension obligations.

So, he asks, why would an automaker continue to manufacture in Canada, if everything becomes one big unimpeded market?

Real free trade, in other words, might mean lower prices, but it also, eventually, means Canadian factory workers might have to accept less benefits or lose their jobs. Which was the anti-free trade argument in the first place.

In the end, it's a choice.

[LoDown]

The Bureau is responsible for enforcing the Competition Act (the "Act"). The purpose of the Act is to maintain and encourage competition in Canada in order to promote economic efficiency in the Canadian economy and to provide consumers with competitive prices and product choices. As a statute of general application, it does not attempt to regulate individual transactions between buyers and sellers. Rather, the Act seeks to develop and maintain the conditions necessary for a competitive marketplace by defining a number of anti-competitive practices. Some of these practices are prohibited as criminal offences. Other practices, perceived to be potentially but not necessarily anti-competitive, are subject to review and remedial action by the Competition Tribunal (the"Tribunal"). The Act does not provide the Bureau with any regulatory authority to decide the law or to compel entities to adopt a particular course of conduct in respect of their activities.

Businesses are generally free to set their own prices, at whatever levels the market will bear. High prices or higher prices in one place than another, in and of themselves, are not contrary to the Act. High prices are a concern when they are the result of anti-competitive conduct subject to the Act.

The Act recognizes that suppliers should be free to determine how best to distribute their products. Market restriction, where a supplier requires its authorized dealers to sell only within a specific geographic area, is generally permissible. Pursuant to section 77 of the Act, the Tribunal can prohibit market restriction where it is likely to substantially lessen competition in a market as a whole. In this case, the practice only restricts imports of the manufacturer's own vehicles and does not restrict competition among the relatively large number of vehicle manufacturers in the overall market. Therefore, the market restriction is unlikely to result in a substantial lessening of competition in the market as a whole.

...so, let me get this straight, the FACT that 98% (99% after Subaru joins Jan 08) of car manufacturers are prohibiting US dealers from selling to Canadians thru threats of penalties, fines, dis-incentives, etc -it nontheless, is UNLIKELY "to lessen competition in the market as a whole"!!!!!

The conspiracy provision, section 45 of the Competition Act, prohibits agreements among competitors that unduly lessen competition, such as price fixing arrangements. However, high prices or higher prices in one place than another are not, in and of themselves, evidence of an agreement, particularly when there are plausible alternative explanations. The case law surrounding section 45 makes it clear that the practice of firms simply following their competitors' initiatives does not constitute a conspiracy offence. In any event, the section does not apply to the unilateral conduct of individual firms or to arrangements among related companies. Furthermore, supply arrangements used to establish a distribution network, such as the agreements that suppliers typically have with their franchised dealers, are not something that would be viewed as a conspiracy. Agreements among competitors who sell competing brands are far more likely to constitute a conspiracy offence than arrangements involving businesses that all deal in the same brands of a product, especially when they face strong competition from other brands in a market.

...wow, he got something right...he just doesn't see it!!! 99% of manufactuers (Honda, Toyota, GM, Ford, ....) have colluded to prevent sales to Canadians...and this guy is still blind to it all.

...there can only be one explanation - the Canadian gov't is in on it! - bending to pressure from the car manufacturers yelling DO AS WE SAY, or else, "no more car factories for you Canada".

Accordingly, this matter does not warrant further examination.

Thank you for bringing your concerns to our attention.

Christopher Broadbent
Téléphone / Tel (819) 953-8558
Télécopieur / Fax (819) 953-8546
broadbent.christopher@cb-bc.gc.ca
Bureau de la concurrence | 50, rue Victoria Gatineau (Québec) K1A 0C9
Competition Bureau | 50 Victoria St. Gatineau, Quebec K1A 0C9
Gouvernement du Canada | Government of Canada
www.cb-bc.gc.ca

...well what can we expect from the son of an ex-NDP leader.

[stephenstay]

Could someone help me understand this,

I purchased a used vehicle from an Ohio dealer.The dealer just called me saying that the DMV is asking for sales tax to transfer the title into my name.I'm inclined to believe him since I just called the Ohio Department of Taxation and spent a good 20min before I managed to get them to read their own tax code (5739.029) and confirm the tax exemption!
However transferring that confirmation from the Ohio Tax Department clerk to the OHIO's DMV clerk seems a much bigger challenge,one which I haven't been able to overcome yet!
DMV is refusing to issue a new title without the tax!!

So here's my question,
I have the bill of sale,odometer/warranty paper and the affidavit.Is it 100% necessary to transfer to title in my name in Ohio?
Can I use the bill of sale and the signed title (current) at the border crossing?

I just purchased a vehicle (literally two weeks ago) in Ohio from a dealer and I did not have to pay sales tax. My dealer had everything taken care of for me as part of the sale.

The forms I signed were:
1. Power of attorney from owner to assign title to a motor vehicle or from purchaser to apply for title.
2. Application for certificate of title to a motor vehicle.
3. Exemption Certificate and affidavit regarding sale of motor vehicle, 0ff-highway motorcycle, or all-purpose vehicle to an out-of-state resident.

More information of the process I went through:

4. I sent a photocopy of my driver's license.
5. In my case the vehicle had never been titled so they did title it in my name. The titling in my name and the statement of my intention to leave the country with the car was key in the tax exemption.
6. Ohio law requires the retention of the original title if the car is being shipped out of country. They will send you a certified receipt of title surrender and two certified copies of the title. This documentation was acceptable for US Customs (or so they said after I faxed them all the documents).
7. You might want to call Ohio BMV Title Administration and Customer Service Unit at 614-752-7671 and ask to speak to the export-import assistant and they will advise you of the steps necessary to remove your vehicle from Ohio. The ladies name I spoke to was Sandi and she was very helpful.

Hope this was helpful. There must be some misinformation with the folks you are dealing with. The rules couldn't have changed in 10 days.

Good luck.
SS

[BeeBee]

:arrowu: :arrowu: Wow, BMW's ad in RFD. Trying to put out the fire? :D :D

[Trexim]

Source: http://www.cbc.ca/news/reportsfromabroad/macdonald/20071207.html

Want a cheaper car? Sorry, you're Canadian
December 7, 2007
......

In the end, it's a choice.

Wow, the best one yet, wish it made it to prints or TV.

[J233]

I just purchased a vehicle (literally two weeks ago) in Ohio from a dealer and I did not have to pay sales tax. My dealer had everything taken care of for me as part of the sale.

The forms I signed were:
1. Power of attorney from owner to assign title to a motor vehicle or from purchaser to apply for title.
2. Application for certificate of title to a motor vehicle.
3. Exemption Certificate and affidavit regarding sale of motor vehicle, 0ff-highway motorcycle, or all-purpose vehicle to an out-of-state resident.

More information of the process I went through:

4. I sent a photocopy of my driver's license.
5. In my case the vehicle had never been titled so they did title it in my name. The titling in my name and the statement of my intention to leave the country with the car was key in the tax exemption.
6. Ohio law requires the retention of the original title if the car is being shipped out of country. They will send you a certified receipt of title surrender and two certified copies of the title. This documentation was acceptable for US Customs (or so they said after I faxed them all the documents).
7. You might want to call Ohio BMV Title Administration and Customer Service Unit at 614-752-7671 and ask to speak to the export-import assistant and they will advise you of the steps necessary to remove your vehicle from Ohio. The ladies name I spoke to was Sandi and she was very helpful.

Hope this was helpful. There must be some misinformation with the folks you are dealing with. The rules couldn't have changed in 10 days.

Good luck.
SS

I had the very same experience you listed in #1-4 last week - no tax - and the dealer took care of everything. I guess because of that law you mention in #6 they got the title transfered under my name. However, I asked the dealer to fax the copy of his title, both sides since they wrote my name and address on the back, to the border, just to expedite the process while I was waiting for my title. This was good enough for US Customs. When I showed up at the border I had the original under my name. It worked.

[J233]

I've already asked him to just sign the title over to my name and let me worry about the paperwork.He just won't budge.
His point is (right or wrong),he's legally obligated as a licenced Auto dealer in Ohio to transfer the title to the purchaser's name.He says that he's already tried unsuccessfully to do the transfer with no luck,therefore I have to give him the tax.
It apears I'm left with the following choices;
1-Pay the tax
2-Sue the dealer for a refund
3-Perhaps leave for Ohio and stay there for 3-4 days,take the title and try to resolve the issue myself with the DMV.

I hate all those options but the first one seems less costly (~$500)

You can also ask the dealer to go to a different DMV office and maybe this will help.
Also, if you decide to follow your option #1 try to convince the dealer to "sponsor" at least half of that amount.
Again, based on the feedback you have been reading here from the folks who bought in Ohio you really should not pay the tax.

[kup ladder]

Wow. If $4,000 isn't significant, why are you even bothering to look on red flag deals? Don't forget your $4,000 markup means your car is going to depreciate $4,000 more than the guy who bought their car in the states!


Completely wrong. The US GT has leather and auto. So, when you compare identical vehicles.

Cdn Mazda 5 Gt Auto lthr w dest = 28435

US Mazda 5 Gt Auto lthr w dest = 23000


Add 6.1% duty to the US price = 24403 vs 28436 CDN = $4033 more in Canada. That said the savings aren't great and other vehicles would have a greater incentive to import.

[ottawa_hull]

Wow, the best one yet, wish it made it to prints or TV.

I loved the article and really hope for our Government to step in and open the border completely. They'll get my vote. And by the way, I also hope that somebody in the government is seriously thinking about removing the current priviledges given to car manufacturers in terms of deciding on what is acceptable and what is not (MB, BMW, abd teh list is growing). Furthermore, should they retaliate by removing support for Warranty across borders, then a tax should be levied on every car sold in Canada. This will result in a faster realignment of prices and forcing Manufacturers to drop these stupid artificial barriers.

[GougingCarCartelGroup]

Indeed that article was the best one i read in a long time.

Wow, the best one yet, wish it made it to prints or TV.

[03terminator]

I've already asked him to just sign the title over to my name and let me worry about the paperwork.He just won't budge.
His point is (right or wrong),he's legally obligated as a licenced Auto dealer in Ohio to transfer the title to the purchaser's name.He says that he's already tried unsuccessfully to do the transfer with no luck,therefore I have to give him the tax.
It apears I'm left with the following choices;
1-Pay the tax
2-Sue the dealer for a refund
3-Perhaps leave for Ohio and stay there for 3-4 days,take the title and try to resolve the issue myself with the DMV.

I hate all those options but the first one seems less costly (~$500)

It appears that there was legislation and it was amended. Here is a dealer association note. Perhaps they are a member of a Dealer association.
Try to convince the DMV that they are wrong. Go up the food chain.

http://www.ohiada.org/Dealer/HouseBills/AmendedTaxBillNotice.html


Current Official document
http://tax.ohio.gov/divisions/sales_and_use/documents/MVDealerNReff8-1-07.pdf


Perhaps ther is some miscommunication between the DMV and the Dealer.

[baboo]

Wow. If $4,000 isn't significant, why are you even bothering to look on red flag deals? Don't forget your $4,000 markup means your car is going to depreciate $4,000 more than the guy who bought their car in the states!

Don't forget about the financing option in Canada. A 3% difference in financing/leasing $25000 results $750 difference annually. Make that over 4 years and you do the Math...Even if you have the cash, you can invest it and still make up for the $4000 difference....

Some car are worth to import some are not....Just need to do your home work...:)

[st7860]

Wow. If $4,000 isn't significant, why are you even bothering to look on red flag deals? Don't forget your $4,000 markup means your car is going to depreciate $4,000 more than the guy who bought their car in the states!

+1

[kup ladder]

Jeez... come on people! Isn't it worth it to buy the car in the States just out of spite? :lol:


+1

[mangoman]

Just watched it this morning (episode 511):

http://drivingtv.canada.com/CarReviewVideos.php?ccID=569

[Monsieurmaggot]

So US car sales are weak and insignificant eh?

Here's the proof. I should get the Medal of Canada for this.

Canadian domestic car/truck sales totalled approximately 118,000 units in November.

Over 30,000 vehicles were imported last month.

Using my simple math, that works out that 25% of the market is buying in the US.

Who can dispute that?


http://ca.autos.yahoo.com/s/03122007/2/biz-finance-canadian-auto-sales-november-fall-nearly-nine-cent.html?p=5


http://www.wheels.ca/article/46942

Can someone from the automotive sector please correct my information?

Clearly the press is making this stuff up.

This isn't true. US sales are "insignificant" remember?

What is frightening is that some sales (like BMW) are up!

[pinchio]

I've been following these discussions and I would jump on a deal if I couldn't get past the financing aspect.

I don't recall seeing any US financing options. If this is the case then you are either left to finance from the bank or pay cash.

Now I don't know about you but I don't have that kind of liquidity so I would be at the mercy of the bank rates...

In addition if I did find financing I would be out of pocket for duties and taxes.

So am I to assume deals like these are mainly for those with liquidity (cash) or those willing to accept the high Canadian bank loan rates?

Just would like to see more discussion on financing strategies people are using.

After all what good is a deal if you can't afford it. The only reason I see going with the Canadian dealer is that have nailed the available financing (a marketing ploy no doubt) options.

Cheers,

Rob

[shopper-X]

i think it's been covered here before, but too far back to find it...Toyota won't do my DRL conversion on my 2007 Prius. Where do I go for that?

Option 1:
Do the headlights turn off when you turn off the Prius? If so you could try pulling a fast one and leave the headlights on and when they turn the car on the lights are on.

We leave the headlights on all the time in our Tribeca because they turn off with it. It has DRL's but prefer the full lights all the time.

Option 2:
Download the instructions here (http://priuschat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33563)
http://priuschat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33563
If you are not comfortable with the install, find a shop that will help you.

No one will do the Daytime Running Light conversion for me. I went in for fog lights, the fog light guy says no. Toyota won't touch it. What do I do?

Search the web, there is loads of info on this. Crappy tire will do it.

http://www.webelectricproducts.com/products.htm

Found this
http://priuschat.com/forums/showpost.php?p=329511&postcount=6

You can add DRLs to your Prius fairly easy. (Web Electic Products makes a module which converts your front turn signals to DRLs similar to what GM does on a lot of their cars. The kit comes with an excellent set of installation directions and all of the parts needed.

I've installed their module on my Prius and one other car - both work flawlessly. I prefer the look of the turn signal DRLs to the high beam DRLs.

dotcalamitie, not to be rude but there is no reason to keep asking the same question when it was answered before. This whole thread is about doing your homework and asking questions that you can not find to answers to yourself. I already searched and found you an answer on page 695 and you asked the same question on page 719. I'm pretty sure if you read the Prius forum you could find an alternate answer or buy the parts and get an auto electrical mechanic to install it. Someone will install it for you but you need to find that person. There are even step-by-step instructions in Option 2 I posted that you can get if you join that forum. Give the instructions to any corner shop mechanic and they will most likely do it for you.

Good luck with the DRL's.

[Snocow]

Just plated my 2008 Toyota Camry SE today.
MTO kept my original Certificate of Origin.

[GougingCarCartelGroup]

So in other words out of a total of 118K+30K car purchased in canada, 20% were from the USA.
I wonder how many of those 30K were consumer purchases vs dealers purchasing american cars to gouge the Canadian consumer in Canada.

I hope this trend continues, and does not go down,

I can't undrstand how BMW is up, ??????????? damn, i guess people are leasing those 328 four door sedans for 3 years, and that counts as a car purchase for them. To me that is renting a car.

So US car sales are weak and insignificant eh?

Here's the proof. I should get the Medal of Canada for this.

Canadian domestic car/truck sales totalled approximately 118,000 units in November.

Over 30,000 vehicles were imported last month.

Using my simple math, that works out that 25% of the market is buying in the US.

Who can dispute that?


http://ca.autos.yahoo.com/s/03122007/2/biz-finance-canadian-auto-sales-november-fall-nearly-nine-cent.html?p=5


http://www.wheels.ca/article/46942

Can someone from the automotive sector please correct my information?

Clearly the press is making this stuff up.

This isn't true. US sales are "insignificant" remember?

What is frightening is that some sales (like BMW) are up!

[shopper-X]

So in other words out of a total of 118K+30K car purchased in canada, 20% were from the USA.
I wonder how many of those 30K were consumer purchases vs dealers purchasing american cars to gouge the Canadian consumer in Canada.

I hope this trend continues, and does not go down,

I can't undrstand how BMW is up, ??????????? damn, i guess people are leasing those 328 four door sedans for 3 years, and that counts as a car purchase for them. To me that is renting a car.

BMW is probably up due to Business leases since leases count as a sale. Executives want to drive BMW's to feel as if they have "arrived" to success even if it's a entire 3 series. The almighty status symbol if you may.

Leases are also easier for accounting over financing.

[mdbuffy]

I posted the following thread:
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6057638&postcount=10787
Transport Canada motor vehicle standards costs Canadian car buyers $5.1 BILLION each year

The I saw the thread:
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6058637&postcount=10801
Competition Bureau reply notably from the son of Ed Broadbent

Thanks to the original poster and for the poster of the comments.

The reply from Mr. Broadbent was just disgusting but I guess that is why he is in that job.

That thread brought up the issue of jobs in the auto industry which I am sure Mr. Broadbent is anxious to protect since the NDP campaigns are funded by the unions and presumably those in unions vote for the NDP.

An auto maker will open or close or lay off shifts at a plant no matter what country it is depending on optimization of the overall corporate production capacity.

In any event, how far would the $5.1 BILLION PLUS per year that Canadian auto buyers pay would cover the buy-outs of those who became unemployed by the Canadian auto industry.

GM retains Earnscliffe Strategy Group as their lobbyist in Ottawa. Earnscliffe has many senior ex-HRDC employees on staff. Wonder how much GM is receiving in re-training, etc. as a result of the efforts of Earnscliffe. Maybe Earnscliffe represents the GM bogeyman for the government....letting them know that GM "might" close plants in Canada. Hell, they have been closing them anyways.

So what does our paying $5.1 BILLION a year guarantee as far as jobs go. Nothing.

GM will make their decision to close a plant in Canada or anywhere else based on alot of factors other than Canadian car prices.

The manufacturers have been getting their $5.1BILLION PLUS premium each year for a long time. It has to come to an end.

Thanks for posting this one...too bad it doesn't get any airtime.
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6058570&postcount=10800
Good reading: A CBC article by Neil Macdonald
Want a cheaper car? Sorry, you're Canadian
December 7, 2007

If the Conservatives don't harmonize motor vehicle safety standards, they are allowing $5.1 BILLION to be sucked out of voters pockets and dividended to foreign companies. There are approximately 1,700,000 new motor vehicles bought in Canada each year.

That means a significant number of votes, even if 50% haven't got a clue about the RFD purchase decision approach...to know what the best deal is.

[GougingCarCartelGroup]

That is sad though, i see a boat load of 3 series on the roads, i guess they all think they got some super luxury mobile :lol:

I guess in Canada, even the people that supposedly made it have to drive "entry level" stuff. I guess the BMW 5 series is not within grasp for them.

BMW 528 = 44K in USA, in Canada it is: 60K
BMW 535 = 49K in USA, in Canada it is: 69K

The 5 series american prices are the Canadian prices for the Entry 3 series LOL That is just stupid how we are gouged in this country.



BMW is probably up due to Business leases since leases count as a sale. Executives want to drive BMW's to feel as if they have "arrived" to success even if it's a entire 3 series. The almighty status symbol if you may.

Leases are also easier for accounting over financing.

[03terminator]

New RIV admissibility list Dec 7, 2007. At quick glance can't tell the change.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/roadsafety/importation/VAFUS/list/VAFUS.pdf

[Marzipan]

So US car sales are weak and insignificant eh?

Here's the proof. I should get the Medal of Canada for this.

Canadian domestic car/truck sales totalled approximately 118,000 units in November.

Over 30,000 vehicles were imported last month.

Using my simple math, that works out that 25% of the market is buying in the US.



I think we have to note that the import figure is both new and used. Domestic sales are new only.

Did I see somewhere that only 22% of imports were new? It seems low, I know.

[2ride4life]

whoa didn't mean to cause a commotion. I have been reading this thread for a long while now, all the information has made me more confident to purchase a car in the states. I am trying to do my homework which is why I posted in the first place, to try and avail myself to the expertise on this thread.

Wow. If $4,000 isn't significant, why are you even bothering to look on red flag deals? Don't forget your $4,000 markup means your car is going to depreciate $4,000 more than the guy who bought their car in the states!

Hey don't get me wrong, $4000 is definitely significant. If it is real. If you look at my OP and the calculations, because of my situation I would either be using the 2.9% financing in canada over 5 years or 6.75% bank loan from PCfinancial/CIBC over the same term. So that initial $4000 difference is before duty. After duty and taxes the difference drops to ~$1500.

Don't forget about the financing option in Canada. A 3% difference in financing/leasing $25000 results $750 difference annually. Make that over 4 years and you do the Math...Even if you have the cash, you can invest it and still make up for the $4000 difference....

Some car are worth to import some are not....Just need to do your home work...:)

I apologize, a little confused by your comment. The difference in interest between financing and taking out a loan ~$2600 in favour of CDN.

Jeez... come on people! Isn't it worth it to buy the car in the States just out of spite? :lol:

Sorry, but to buy car in the states out of spite if it ends up costing you more doesn't make sense to me. Isn't that why this thread started in the first place. To make an informed choice so that one doesn't end up paying more than one is required to?

[toolman]

I had the very same experience you listed in #1-4 last week - no tax - and the dealer took care of everything. I guess because of that law you mention in #6 they got the title transfered under my name. However, I asked the dealer to fax the copy of his title, both sides since they wrote my name and address on the back, to the border, just to expedite the process while I was waiting for my title. This was good enough for US Customs. When I showed up at the border I had the original under my name. It worked.

My experience is exactly the same. I picked up my new Sienna and drove it straight out of Ohio. No state tax paid. I crossed the Windsor / Detroit border on November 2. I had the original title in my name and the stamped it.

[Nitol]

I just purchased a vehicle (literally two weeks ago) in Ohio from a dealer and I did not have to pay sales tax. My dealer had everything taken care of for me as part of the sale.

The forms I signed were:
1. Power of attorney from owner to assign title to a motor vehicle or from purchaser to apply for title.
2. Application for certificate of title to a motor vehicle.
3. Exemption Certificate and affidavit regarding sale of motor vehicle, 0ff-highway motorcycle, or all-purpose vehicle to an out-of-state resident.

More information of the process I went through:

4. I sent a photocopy of my driver's license.
5. In my case the vehicle had never been titled so they did title it in my name. The titling in my name and the statement of my intention to leave the country with the car was key in the tax exemption.
6. Ohio law requires the retention of the original title if the car is being shipped out of country. They will send you a certified receipt of title surrender and two certified copies of the title. This documentation was acceptable for US Customs (or so they said after I faxed them all the documents).
7. You might want to call Ohio BMV Title Administration and Customer Service Unit at 614-752-7671 and ask to speak to the export-import assistant and they will advise you of the steps necessary to remove your vehicle from Ohio. The ladies name I spoke to was Sandi and she was very helpful.

Hope this was helpful. There must be some misinformation with the folks you are dealing with. The rules couldn't have changed in 10 days.

Good luck.
SS

Thanks,that was a great 1st post,very helpful.
Will try the # first thing Monday.

[baboo]

The difference in interest between financing and taking out a loan ~$2600 in favour of CDN.
Exactly my point, maybe there is some misunderstanding here, I was actually replying to another comment by an earlier poster.

Don't get me wrong, I think importing cars from US is great, I just think we need to factor in all the variables before we punch out the final number. After all, we are here to save money.

[Marzipan]

Canada's ecoAUTO program of up to $2,000 refund for buying a new vehicle with low fuel consumption is not available for new imports. You have to buy from a Canadian dealer. Even though the objective of the program is to encourage more efficient vehicles, imports don't qualify. It may be worth lobbying for a change to this rule though the difficulty might be determining the efficiency of a vehicle not made for the Canadian market.

In many applications of the rebate, its effectivness is questionable. When a refund of say, $1,000 is available from Ottawa, manufacturers/dealers simple reduce their incentives by up to $1,000. No wonder some manufacturers are publicly praising the program.

The 2007 model of Honda's Fit failed to qualify but the competing Toyota Yaris did. So last year Honda met the competition by offering a $1,000 incentive. For 2008, Honda tweaked the Fit to get it to qualify for the Ottawa rebate. Guess what. Honda no longer offer that same incentive.

For Jeep's Compass and Patriot, only one trim level of each is eligible for the SUV ecoAUTO money. What Jeep does is simply offer a lower incentive for those trim levels eligible for the Ottawa rebate.

[cavuu]

For Jeep's Compass and Patriot, only one trim level of each is eligible for the SUV ecoAUTO money. What Jeep does is simply offer a lower incentive for those trim levels eligible for the Ottawa rebate.
Giving a rebate on any SUV is ridiculous unless it meets the ecoCAR qualifications. Why should someone who buys an ecoSUV get a rebate when someone who buys a car that gets better mileage than the ecoSUV but not as good as a ecoCAR not receive a rebate?

[michelb]

So US car sales are weak and insignificant eh?

Here's the proof. I should get the Medal of Canada for this.

Canadian domestic car/truck sales totalled approximately 118,000 units in November.

Over 30,000 vehicles were imported last month.

Using my simple math, that works out that 25% of the market is buying in the US.

Who can dispute that?
...

I think we have to note that the import figure is both new and used. Domestic sales are new only.

Did I see somewhere that only 22% of imports were new? It seems low, I know.

As Marzipan stated, the import numbers are used and new, the CND sales are new only so it's not 20% of new cars from the US.

This article confirms the 22% of imports are new number http://www.wheels.ca/article/46942

so that would make about 6600 new cars from the US versus 118000 sold in Canada (roughly 5% of total new cars).

I think the 22% is actually pretty close to the ratio for new vs used. Can't find any docs with it but I thought I had heard there there were about 5 million new and used cars sold in Canada every year and I think there were 1.6M new cars sold in Canada last year.

[jwstewart]

Want a cheaper car? Sorry, you're Canadian
December 7, 2007
.........

Many production costs are dropping in the U.S., particularly as its dollar declines and automakers have been able to get out from under expensive health care and pension obligations.

So, he asks, why would an automaker continue to manufacture in Canada, if everything becomes one big unimpeded market?

..........

In the end, it's a choice.

This is hardly a justification for price arbitrage. The economics of production dictate that the manufacturers will invest in production facilities in the lowest cost location, and will adapt future production to the currency regardless of territory prices.

Why should the manufacturer's be able to adapt to the currency value and consumers not also have the same privilege ?

In fact the manufacturer's will no doubt belly up to the public trough with the argument that it costs ore to produce in Canada. Any such attempt should be met with a vocal response that the prices more than reflect any possible difference.

[gilad]

I just looked at the updated RIV list for what American cars are admissible for import to Canada and it seems that the 2008 Subaru Forester is no longer on the forbidden list. Can anyone confirm if this is correct?

[champion_qh]

Who can throw me a quick anser? I really don't have time to review 720+ pages of posts.... sorry

I'm considering a private sale in US. Anyone had experience? how do you do the transfer of ownership? how do you get a temporary plate to drive across the border? Do you still need to pay the local tax if you eventually gonna register the car in Canada? thanks!

[Trexim]

I just looked at the updated RIV list for what American cars are admissible for import to Canada and it seems that the 2008 Subaru Forester is no longer on the forbidden list. Can anyone confirm if this is correct?

Check section 5,4: http://www.tc.gc.ca/roadsafety/importation/VAFUS/list/Section5_4.htm

[cinqhoda]

So in other words out of a total of 118K+30K car purchased in canada, 20% were from the USA.
I wonder how many of those 30K were consumer purchases vs dealers purchasing american cars to gouge the Canadian consumer in Canada.

I hope this trend continues, and does not go down,

I can't undrstand how BMW is up, ??????????? damn, i guess people are leasing those 328 four door sedans for 3 years, and that counts as a car purchase for them. To me that is renting a car.

Don't forget that the 3 series is by far their biggest volume seller and it was a brand design for 2007. New model designs almost always sell better year-over-year than the previous generation.

Also, look at Acura's sales, they were up 22.9% in 2007 compared to 2006. The MDX was a new design for 2007 and it represents a good chunk of volume for Acura. In addition to the MDX sales, the RDX started selling in the fall of 2006, so for the bulk of 2007 every RDX sale was a 100% volume increase over the previous year simply because it did not exist.

Had BMW and Acura released these refreshed/new models in 2005 for the 2006 model year, I am sure their sales would look a lot more like the rest of the industry's for 2007, either flat or down. Right now BMW and Acura are riding a wave that will end soon if it hasn't already.:cheesygri

[gilad]

I just looked at the updated RIV list for what American cars are admissible for import to Canada and it seems that the 2008 Subaru Forester is no longer on the forbidden list. Can anyone confirm if this is correct?

Check section 5,4: http://www.tc.gc.ca/roadsafety/importation/VAFUS/list/Section5_4.htm

Here:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/roadsafety/importation/VAFUS/list/VAFUS.pdf

on page 14 it seems to indicate that it is ok to import it, which is why I'm a bit confused...

[Marzipan]

As Marzipan stated, the import numbers are used and new, the CND sales are new only so it's not 20% of new cars from the US.

This article confirms the 22% of imports are new number http://www.wheels.ca/article/46942

so that would make about 6600 new cars from the US versus 118000 sold in Canada (roughly 5% of total new cars).

I think the 22% is actually pretty close to the ratio for new vs used. Can't find any docs with it but I thought I had heard there there were about 5 million new and used cars sold in Canada every year and I think there were 1.6M new cars sold in Canada last year.

To further develop this analysis ... as well as the 22% of imports that are directly displacing domestic new vehicle sales, the other 78% are also hurting the same sales. As you have read on this forum, individuals are bringing in good used vehicles instead of buying domestics new. Used vehicle dealers are increasingly buying their stock from south of the border.

[ac328]

Who can throw me a quick anser? I really don't have time to review 720+ pages of posts.... sorry

I'm considering a private sale in US. Anyone had experience? how do you do the transfer of ownership? how do you get a temporary plate to drive across the border? Do you still need to pay the local tax if you eventually gonna register the car in Canada? thanks!

Quick answer is that with your rush-rush attitude you may get burned....sorry.

Importing a car successfully requires homework, and that goes double for a used car. Besides every US state has different rules...you have provided zero specific information.

[novagolf]

This is the message I received from a dealer in New Jersey regarding the temporary permit: "I can provide everything but a temp. tag, it is the law" "we can not issue temporary plates or stickers for vehicles that go outside of the U.S.A." No deal!!

Not true. I purchased a 2007 Outback from a dealer in NJ in November and they issued my a 20-day out-of-state permit no questions asked. Has someone changed the rules????

[brendonp]

Who can throw me a quick anser? I really don't have time to review 720+ pages of posts.... sorry

I'm considering a private sale in US. Anyone had experience? how do you do the transfer of ownership? how do you get a temporary plate to drive across the border? Do you still need to pay the local tax if you eventually gonna register the car in Canada? thanks!

Search for post from my name. I bought a used Mini Cooper "S" a few months back from a private party... Remember things may very from state to state (I bought on the East coast- Virginia to be precise)....

Brendon

[Trexim]

I just looked at the updated RIV list for what American cars are admissible for import to Canada and it seems that the 2008 Subaru Forester is no longer on the forbidden list. Can anyone confirm if this is correct?



Here:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/roadsafety/importation/VAFUS/list/VAFUS.pdf

on page 14 it seems to indicate that it is ok to import it, which is why I'm a bit confused...

It's been asked before ... they moved it to section 5.4 ... for SUV .. page 24 of the same pdf

[jed]

This is hardly a justification for price arbitrage. The economics of production dictate that the manufacturers will invest in production facilities in the lowest cost location, and will adapt future production to the currency regardless of territory prices.

Why should the manufacturer's be able to adapt to the currency value and consumers not also have the same privilege ?

In fact the manufacturer's will no doubt belly up to the public trough with the argument that it costs ore to produce in Canada. Any such attempt should be met with a vocal response that the prices more than reflect any possible difference.

Its never discussed why it is cheaper to buy a car, built in Oshawa, in the US than it is in Oshawa?

For the domestics, we used to be alot cheaper than the US, so to get rid of all the CDN product heading south a few years ago, the manufacturers artificially raised prices to make it economically unfeasible to send them south. I would bet that imports are just adjusting to the market then.

But, if the manufacturers were to bring prices to par, it would hammer the used market, causing a huge loss in some cases for Cdn customers. Imagine having lost an extra 10, 20 or 30 grand in depreciation if they were to do that.

I'm not saying I'm for it or against it, just telling the effect.

[Metal_Driver]

Does anyone have any experience with using a friends US address to purchase a veh - if it is on the bill of sale will this cause a problem at the Cdn border or when you go to put plates on it? :confused:

[mdbuffy]

Its never discussed why it is cheaper to buy a car, built in Oshawa, in the US than it is in Oshawa?

For the domestics, we used to be alot cheaper than the US, so to get rid of all the CDN product heading south a few years ago, the manufacturers artificially raised prices to make it economically unfeasible to send them south. I would bet that imports are just adjusting to the market then.

But, if the manufacturers were to bring prices to par, it would hammer the used market, causing a huge loss in some cases for Cdn customers. Imagine having lost an extra 10, 20 or 30 grand in depreciation if they were to do that.

I'm not saying I'm for it or against it, just telling the effect.


After having paid a premium over US prices of over $5 BILLION a year for many years, the loss in depreciation is insignificant.

Consider that the person who has to take the hit on depreciation gets to buy a new or used car in Canada at the lower U.S. fair trade price which may make up for the increased rate of depreciation.

We have to consider getting back to basic economics and if the auto industry can't hack it without government welfare handouts, let the jobs go where the manufacturer can optimize its profits...and that may end up being Canada when their bluff is called. Then we will not be subjected to the threats of the auto manufacturers talking about handouts. Why do you think GM employes Earnscliffe Stategy Group who have many senior ex-HRDC people on staff?

Remember the National Energy Policy. There were no handouts for all of those people in Alberta who lost their jobs and houses as a result of the NEP. I'm not an Albertan and never have been but just use that as an example of how different parts of the country are treated. Let the auto jobs go whereever is best for the auto industry. Maybe they will find out that quality and sales suffer when they build cars in third world countries and try to sell them in Canada.

[accorder]

But, if the manufacturers were to bring prices to par, it would hammer the used market, causing a huge loss in some cases for Cdn customers. Imagine having lost an extra 10, 20 or 30 grand in depreciation if they were to do that.

I'm not saying I'm for it or against it, just telling the effect.

Canadian consumers would actually benefit from lower car prices since the next new car would cost much less. the savings from purcahsing a new car would be much higher than the lost value of an used car.

It's BS for the car companies to cry for the potential billion dollar loss on returning leases if the MSRPs were lowered to reflect loonie value. The car companies have already gouged much bigger profit from Canadians in the last several years after the loonie rose to above 1CAD=0.75USD as the car companiess didn't adjust the prices accordingly. So lowering MSRPs wouldn't cause real loss to car companies at all .

the rising loonie is among many business risk factors that every business need to cope with properly. I'm disgusted to see the car campanies use any excuses to hide their greed and their lack of ability to manage risk.

The executives of car companies say Canadians like smaller cars. I want to point out that the main reason is simply because that the cars are too expensive in Canada. If the the U.S prices were 30 percent higher, we would see Americans would like smaller cars too as they wouldn't be able to afford bigger cars.

[Super strokey]

I just got back from my local Hyundai dealer and they are offering zero % financing for 60 months on lots of units and 72 months even on some vehicles. My understanding is that they are "integrety priced" there so any discount you can get there at this is really good.

[LoDown]

Are you sure about that? According to the CBSA (border services) website, the CBSA counts sales tax as part of the value on which it calculates duty. "Duty" for their purposes includes GST, and customs duties.

Put another way it uses the total price you paid, including tax, to be the value on which it assesses GST and duty (if any).

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/pub/bsf5056-eng.html

Please correct me if I am wrong.

You are quoting me out of context. Duty at the border is indeed paid on the price you "paid", including tax, if you paid it. My comment refered to the fact that the importer had his friend buy the car who then "resold" it to him. In this case, the importer is buying a "used car" and should not be paying any 'tax' to his friend. To be clear, the amount the importer "paid" to his friend should not include the 'tax' the friend paid to the car dealership. This results in "no duty on the tax paid" for the importer. The key here is that the fair market value of a used car, even if it is a used for a day, falls dramatically. Try selling a car back to a dealership a day after you bought it - 10-20% less is typical.

On a related note, here is a TIP to importers who use a friend to buy their car. You can produce a Bill of Sale (amount paid to the friend for the now used car) that is 10-20% lower then the friend paid to the dealership. This will lower the GST and PST (helps offset any US state tax incurred) you will have to pay and there is nothing CBSA can do about it. To get an idea of the fair market value you can pay to your friend, get some quotes from car dealerships in the US - keep records (dates,amounts offered, names, phone numbers) to show CBSA if needed.

[Monsieurmaggot]

You are quoting me out of context. Duty at the border is indeed paid on the price you "paid", including tax, if you paid it. My comment refered to the fact that the importer had his friend buy the car who then "resold" it to him. In this case, the importer is buying a "used car" and should not be paying any 'tax' to his friend. To be clear, the amount the importer "paid" to his friend should not include the 'tax' the friend paid to the car dealership. This results in "no duty on the tax paid" for the importer. The key here is that the fair market value of a used car, even if it is a used for a day, falls dramatically. Try selling a car back to a dealership a day after you bought it - 10-20% less is typical.

On a related note, here is a TIP to importers who use a friend to buy their car. You can produce a Bill of Sale (amount paid to the friend for the now used car) that is 10-20% lower then the friend paid to the dealership. This will lower the GST and PST (helps offset any US state tax incurred) you will have to pay and there is nothing CBSA can do about it. To get an idea of the fair market value you can pay to your friend, get some quotes from car dealerships in the US - keep records (dates,amounts offered, names, phone numbers) to show CBSA if needed.

Remember that another RFDer decided to play around with CBSA when he imported a boat from the US. He risked losing his boat and car. He was fined over $3000 (on top of the extra tax) for misleading the CBSA.

They have the right to impose book value on any vehicle. They can request cancelled cheques and proof of payment.

Remember you're not buying small ticket items here.

I wouldn't risk playing around with the CBSA when it comes to a vehicle purchase.

You're saving thousands buying in the US. A couple of hundred bucks in taxes isn't worth getting my new ride impounded.

[tico 1948]

Remember that another RFDer decided to play around with CBSA when he imported a boat from the US. He risked losing his boat and car. He was fined over $3000 (on top of the extra tax) for misleading the CBSA.

They have the right to impose book value on any vehicle. They can request cancelled cheques and proof of payment.

Remember you're not buying small ticket items here.

I wouldn't risk playing around with the CBSA when it comes to a vehicle purchase.

You're saving thousands buying in the US. A couple of hundred bucks in taxes isn't worth getting my new ride impounded.

I absolutely agree. I have a very good friend in Ontario who's father( now deceased) worked at a Cdn. Border crossing. He used to regale us with stories about how he and his co-workers busted cheaters at the border. It's a Badge of Honour for them to stomp on people who try to pass "bad fuggum" on the CBSA. A word of advice, proceed with that idea "AT YOUR OWN PERIL!" I tell you true!!!!

[GougingCarCartelGroup]

But, if the manufacturers were to bring prices to par, it would hammer the used market, causing a huge loss in some cases for Cdn customers. Imagine having lost an extra 10, 20 or 30 grand in depreciation if they were to do that.

I'm not saying I'm for it or against it, just telling the effect.

Most people understand that purchasing a car is not an investment that will earn you money. YOu lose money as soon as you head out of the dealership with your brand new car.

So if consumer XYZ purchased their 51K car today, and the car maker lowers the price of the car to 42K, they lost 9K overnight, true. But, they can purchase or trade in that lower priced car towards another car with a lower price, so in theory they did not LOSE anything...

Unless consumers are purchasing these rust buckets to make a profit 4 or 5 years from the date of purchase? lol

[GougingCarCartelGroup]

I absolutely agree. I have a very good friend in Ontario who's father( now deceased) worked at a Cdn. Border crossing. He used to regale us with stories about how he and his co-workers busted cheaters at the border. It's a Badge of Honour for them to stomp on people who try to pass "bad fuggum" on the CBSA. A word of advice, proceed with that idea "AT YOUR OWN PERIL!" I tell you true!!!!

Wow that is good to know, like the government and mofo manufacturers of goods don't ass rape us enough, now border guys need to have a badge of honor too.

[Metal_Driver]

For those of you who have bought from a manufacturer who needs a US address (i.e Honda or Toyota) - do they need to list the US address on the bill of sale, and if so is this a problem at Cdn customs or when you go to put plates on the vehicle ?
Any help here would be appreciated.

[diigii]

Source: http://www.cbc.ca/news/reportsfromabroad/macdonald/20071207.html

Want a cheaper car? Sorry, you're Canadian
December 7, 2007


Speaking on condition of anonymity, he concedes that the U.S.-Canada price differential right now is ridiculous and notes that consumer anger has already forced the manufacturers to narrow the gap somewhat.

But, he says, the Harper government is "in a desperate fight to win a majority government, and so populist, so consumer-driven, that nothing else matters. They are making policy on the back of an envelope, and handing it to bureaucrats to fix."

Ottawa, he says, seems to want to moves things to the point where barriers are completely removed, creating a situation in which there is, effectively, complete free trade on cars. And that, he says, will have consequences.

Many production costs are dropping in the U.S., particularly as its dollar declines and automakers have been able to get out from under expensive health care and pension obligations.

So, he asks, why would an automaker continue to manufacture in Canada, if everything becomes one big unimpeded market?

Real free trade, in other words, might mean lower prices, but it also, eventually, means Canadian factory workers might have to accept less benefits or lose their jobs. Which was the anti-free trade argument in the first place.

In the end, it's a choice.

This quote is from accorder's post of the CBC article 3 pages back.

My question is, could this "person speaking on condition of anonymity" be our esteemed friend DesRosiers The Mathematician? :cheesygri

[DSTU]

Who can throw me a quick anser? I really don't have time to review 720+ pages of posts.... sorry

I'm considering a private sale in US. Anyone had experience? how do you do the transfer of ownership? how do you get a temporary plate to drive across the border? Do you still need to pay the local tax if you eventually gonna register the car in Canada? thanks!

Huh?

What makes you so special?

Hint, Read the first post!!!

[inspire]

Wow that is good to know, like the government and mofo manufacturers of goods don't ass rape us enough, now border guys need to have a badge of honor too.
What are you talking about? Those guys at the border have to make sure cheats / frauds are caught, no matter what they are trying to sneak across. (We pay enough taxes to pay their high salaries ... so they might as well do something for it!) People on RFD are saving up the wazoo by buying a car in the US ... the 'fair' thing is for the buyer to pay their appropriate tax, just like every other Canadian. Otherwise, what would stop others from claiming a lower price for any other item they buy abroad?

Would a 'badge of honour' for Border Patrol for catching a drug dealer or somebody smuggling some other contraband be more acceptable to you? Sheesh.

[showMeAnImport]

I've been following these discussions and I would jump on a deal if I couldn't get past the financing aspect.

I don't recall seeing any US financing options. If this is the case then you are either left to finance from the bank or pay cash.

Now I don't know about you but I don't have that kind of liquidity so I would be at the mercy of the bank rates...

In addition if I did find financing I would be out of pocket for duties and taxes.

So am I to assume deals like these are mainly for those with liquidity (cash) or those willing to accept the high Canadian bank loan rates?

Just would like to see more discussion on financing strategies people are using.

After all what good is a deal if you can't afford it. The only reason I see going with the Canadian dealer is that have nailed the available financing (a marketing ploy no doubt) options.

Cheers,

Rob

It's all about leveraging the equity in your home my friend...then you get better rates...without home equity you're right...you will get ****** rates...

Unless of course you have cash :-)

Cheers

[ac328]

You are quoting me out of context. Duty at the border is indeed paid on the price you "paid", including tax, if you paid it. My comment refered to the fact that the importer had his friend buy the car who then "resold" it to him. In this case, the importer is buying a "used car" and should not be paying any 'tax' to his friend. To be clear, the amount the importer "paid" to his friend should not include the 'tax' the friend paid to the car dealership. This results in "no duty on the tax paid" for the importer. The key here is that the fair market value of a used car, even if it is a used for a day, falls dramatically. Try selling a car back to a dealership a day after you bought it - 10-20% less is typical.

On a related note, here is a TIP to importers who use a friend to buy their car. You can produce a Bill of Sale (amount paid to the friend for the now used car) that is 10-20% lower then the friend paid to the dealership. This will lower the GST and PST (helps offset any US state tax incurred) you will have to pay and there is nothing CBSA can do about it. To get an idea of the fair market value you can pay to your friend, get some quotes from car dealerships in the US - keep records (dates,amounts offered, names, phone numbers) to show CBSA if needed.

So in other words the importer is still underreporting the value for the purposes of paying duty. How did I quote you out of context exactly :confused: ?

Unless you are implying the importer's friend is willing to sell the car to the importer for less than he paid the dealer new. I need more friends like that!

You are already saving thousands of $$$ by buying in the US, is it really worth it to underreport just to save a few hundred bucks on duty and GST?

[Marzipan]

As Marzipan stated, the import numbers are used and new, the CND sales are new only so it's not 20% of new cars from the US.

This article confirms the 22% of imports are new number http://www.wheels.ca/article/46942

so that would make about 6600 new cars from the US versus 118000 sold in Canada (roughly 5% of total new cars).

I think the 22% is actually pretty close to the ratio for new vs used. Can't find any docs with it but I thought I had heard there there were about 5 million new and used cars sold in Canada every year and I think there were 1.6M new cars sold in Canada last year.

My further thoughts ...

It will be the imports of used vehicles that will put the greatest pressure on Canadian dealers/manufacturers. The car companies will continue to create barriers against individuals crossing the border to buy new - the cat and mouse game will go on.

Used vehicle imports, currently at 78% we think, are the domain mainly of the used car dealers. They are, and will increasingly, buy good used vehicles by the truckload - no interference from the manufacturers - efficiently transport and deal with paperwork - make modifications at low cost - get currency exchanged at better rates etc.. With current pricing, used vehicle importers can land in Canada 2 year old units off leases at less than half the price of the similar new vehicle. Used dealers now have a huge margin to offer Canadians good deals as an alternative to buying new.

As the months roll by it will get less attractive for individual Canadians to import new but the used dealers will ferret out better and better arrangements. Expect the new/used import ratio to shrink. It will be the Canadian dealerships who will put pressure on the manufacturers for parity pricing as they find more their new sales displaced by certified used.

Anyone scouting large used car lots - like that monstrous operation in Quebec (whose name escapes me) - should already see many US imports and better pricing. So just wait - whether for new or used.

[canabiz]

It's all about leveraging the equity in your home my friend...then you get better rates...without home equity you're right...you will get ****** rates...

Unless of course you have cash :-)

Cheers

Good for money laundering :-) imagine bring hockey bags full of cash Stateside

Stick it to Dubya!

[GougingCarCartelGroup]

I'm not saying a person should not pay tax on their car that they import.

I dealt with lots of government types that go that extra mile to make life difficult for someone like you or Me. They are arrogant, rude, lazy and they think they are the law, while getting their salary paid by our tax dollars. People like that irk me so bad i want to fire their asses.


What are you talking about? Those guys at the border have to make sure cheats / frauds are caught, no matter what they are trying to sneak across. (We pay enough taxes to pay their high salaries ... so they might as well do something for it!) People on RFD are saving up the wazoo by buying a car in the US ... the 'fair' thing is for the buyer to pay their appropriate tax, just like every other Canadian. Otherwise, what would stop others from claiming a lower price for any other item they buy abroad?

Would a 'badge of honour' for Border Patrol for catching a drug dealer or somebody smuggling some other contraband be more acceptable to you? Sheesh.

[ijustwannasearch]

For the nissan warranty to apply here, does a new that has been sitting on the dealer's lot for over 6 months count or does it have to be registered to a owner for over 6 months :confused:

[toystoys]

For the nissan warranty to apply here, does a new that has been sitting on the dealer's lot for over 6 months count or does it have to be registered to a owner for over 6 months :confused:

Just bought some toilet paper from Costco, must have been in storage for some time, think I 'll go back for a refund, it should be considered used,... not! :razz:

[stock_junkie]

I haven't seen anybody post their experiences about trying to sell a vehicle that was imported from the U.S. so I'll be the guinea pig and let you know how it goes. I have it listed on eBay and the starting bid is what I paid for it after taxes and duty:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=140188342098&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=004

Since you're allowed to import 2 cars a year, I'm hoping to make a couple grand on this one and put it towards another Highlander in January.

[inspire]

Hey GougingCarCartelGroup -- guess I didn't catch your posting in the right context. My bad.

I haven't seen anybody post their experiences about trying to sell a vehicle that was imported from the U.S. so I'll be the guinea pig and let you know how it goes. I have it listed on eBay and the starting bid is what I paid for it after taxes and duty:
There are PLENTY of people who have sold US cars in Canada ... look at all the used car dealers ... if I read correctly in the Globe and Mail article ... about 160,000 US cars flooded the Canadian market last month. Only 20-25k were new cars. I'm sure out of the remaining 135-140k cars ... not all went to private citizens. Most must have went to dealers to flip to unknowing Canadians. Look at trader.ca and see the cars that are so much lower priced than the ones that have a "Canadian" mileage reading. (Then again ... some of those ones are 'lemon law' buybacks or 'flood damage' cars that have been fixed up to have a 'clean title' before coming over ...) That's why I would NEVER buy a used car that was originally titled in the US unless I was the one importing it over ...

[dotcalamitie]

Wow, reading that story that says the immobilizer in Honda's in the US and Canada are exactly the same has really given me a HUGE distaste for Honda. They are lieing corporate cheats out to phuck their customers any possible way. Unbelievable, really. It is an ugly corporation. I remain loyal to my Prius and Tribeca for now as the car industry misses another $5,000 a month in car payments from me...I hope other Canadians are following suit.

I think we need one market and it's time to get rid of the Canadian car industry borders.

[ajpaterson]

I haven't seen anybody post their experiences about trying to sell a vehicle that was imported from the U.S. so I'll be the guinea pig and let you know how it goes. I have it listed on eBay and the starting bid is what I paid for it after taxes and duty:


Interesting approach to see what people will pay you to avoid the hassle of importing the car themselves. As this is a used car sale in Ontario, the buyer will have to pay 8% PST (about $3k) on the selling price when they transfer the ownership and replate the car for themselves with the MOT.

Current incentives on this car from Toyota are $5500 off MSRP price of $46200 + $1390 PDI + 8%PST + 5% GST (also a dealer incentive), plus 0.9% financing for 3 years.

Potential savings of about $7k over buying local but you give up the financing option obviously.

After your deal goes through, would you be willing to share some insight on your purchase/sale experience for those of us who would prefer to buy direct and save the extra $3k PST. My wife is looking for the same car in pearl white (don't ask me why).

[mdbuffy]

I don't know if you saw the addition that they made...the "minutes" of the meetings last week between Transport Canada and the stakeholders.

Isn't this great:

From http://www.carswithoutborders.com

The Following is................................a summary of the discussions on Dec 4 and 5th. Readers please
note we have submitted these minutes on the basis of the input we received from....................

Consultation Session 3 – Wednesday December 6, 2008 11:00am-1:00pm

......................
7. Kash (Transport Canada) made a comment re: harmonization that we are mostly already harmonized except in certain specific areas. TC strongly believes that there is further room for harmonization where safety is not at risk. Manufacturers strongly believe in increased harmonization which would facilitate cross-border trade. Although there are certain areas that TC will not harmonize with. Glad that Canadians and our group have supported the benefits of immobilizers. Update: large number of comments received from stakeholders from across Canada, over 100-200 statements. Kash’s team will consolidate for presentation to senior management.

That a position could be taken by someone who obviously has little interest or understanding of the economics of this..
"Althoughthere are certain areas that TC will not harmonize with."

The cost of that position of since 2002 is over $5 BILLION a year. Want a cheaper car, move to the U.S.

[smokiebk]

Many, many thanks smokiebk. I have also planned for Eastport ID now for exactly the same reasons. They also told me that they are open 24/7 and to fax everything to Whitlash, although the woman I spoke to seemed to have a room-temperature IQ. Yes, according to the US CBP website for Whitlash MT, for a used car the title must be signed by the seller and have your name listed as the buyer.

I got a cheap fare on Air Canada to Seattle (144 all in one way, direct) for Sunday December 16, going to try and get back in one day. I look forward to hearing about your experiences.

Have a safe drive back, enjoy your car!

For ac328 and whomever else is interested, my wife and I just brought back a 2006 Subaru WRX STI from Seattle. We went through the Eastport, ID crossing at about 10pm. Spent about 5 minutes max. at the US side....then 7 minutes max. at the Canadian side. The US officer went out to the car with the title to confirm the VIN...that's it. The Canadian officers didn't even go out to look at the car!! To top it off, they didn't charge me any duty (car's made in Japan). Do I get charged the duty at some other stage of the process?? They also didn't charge the RIV fee, and gave a little piece of paper with RIV's website and phone numbers to contact them for payment and the next form.

Anyways, I'd recommend anyone to go through that border crossing, as it is very lightly used (at least at that hour). From Seattle, it took us 15 hours to get to Calgary, but we did a bunch of shopping along the way and stopped for dinner. Also, didn't really push the speed limit too much...although really, really tempted to :cheesygri

[Kamloops]

I haven't seen anybody post their experiences about trying to sell a vehicle that was imported from the U.S. so I'll be the guinea pig and let you know how it goes. I have it listed on eBay and the starting bid is what I paid for it after taxes and duty:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=140188342098&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=004

I sold my imported suv 3 months after a bought it for a 4K profit. Been a USA vehicle did not seem to matter one bit.

[Kamloops]

Remember that another RFDer decided to play around with CBSA when he imported a boat from the US. He risked losing his boat and car. He was fined over $3000 (on top of the extra tax) for misleading the CBSA.

They have the right to impose book value on any vehicle. They can request cancelled cheques and proof of payment.

Remember you're not buying small ticket items here.

I wouldn't risk playing around with the CBSA when it comes to a vehicle purchase.

You're saving thousands buying in the US. A couple of hundred bucks in taxes isn't worth getting my new ride impounded.

That RFDer would be I. :) Yep dont mess with the price, declare what you paid. I was never at risk of losing my car, but my boat yes. They seized it and I had to pay 3700.00 fine plus tax. Even after that I still got a great deal at least. But I am a covert, no messing around now.

[EL820]

That RFDer would be I. :) Yep dont mess with the price, declare what you paid. I was never at risk of losing my car, but my boat yes. They seized it and I had to pay 3700.00 fine plus tax. Even after that I still got a great deal at least. But I am a covert, no messing around now.

I guess that $4k profit from the sale of the SUV offsets the $3700 penalty. :lol:

[Kamloops]

I guess that $4k profit from the sale of the SUV offsets the $3700 penalty. :lol:

The boat I brought back before the one I got nailed on I sold it after using it for a year and made 5500.00 profit so I am doing ok. The boat I got nailed on I still have after 2 years and would still get 3K over what I paid even including the fine..

Bottom line why on earth would anyone consider a boat,RV,Motorcyle or car purchase in Canada.

Even when the exchange was bad you could still get a better deal

[dotcalamitie]

I know. My friends and family have been buying their PWC's, ATV's, Sleds in the US. I'm looking at buying 2 of the new SeaDoo RXP-X's this spring and unless the CDN price changes - forget it. $17,000 Canada vs $12,500 US. What sucks is it's a brand new model for 2008 so they knew what they were doing when they priced it.

[stock_junkie]

Did you really promote the fact that your vehicle was imported or just let them know when they came to look at it? I'm wondering if I'm taking the right approach in the wording of my listing?

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140188342098

Should I make it more basic and less wordy?


I sold my imported suv 3 months after a bought it for a 4K profit. Been a USA vehicle did not seem to matter one bit.

[Ebola]

Good for money laundering :-) imagine bring hockey bags full of cash Stateside

Stick it to Dubya!

You have to report any movement of $10k plus in cash across the border.


As for it being a "badge of honour" .. not quite... it's more just the satisfaction of making someone who is lying for no reason and breaking the law because they being greedy pay up.. even though they are probably still coming out ahead.

[scouzi]

I haven't seen anybody post their experiences about trying to sell a vehicle that was imported from the U.S. so I'll be the guinea pig and let you know how it goes. I have it listed on eBay and the starting bid is what I paid for it after taxes and duty:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=140188342098&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=004

Since you're allowed to import 2 cars a year, I'm hoping to make a couple grand on this one and put it towards another Highlander in January.

Ebay is probably not the best place to sell your car since your price will be automatically price-compared with other US listings.

Try to sell it the old way - Classifieds and local print.

You'd be surprised on how many people still don't use the internet.

[canabiz]

Ebay is probably not the best place to sell your car since your price will be automatically price-compared with other US listings.

Try to sell it the old way - Classifieds and local print.

You'd be surprised on how many people still don't use the internet.

Good points, I also don't think eBay is the most effective way to sell your car

You may be better off buying a $1 For Sale sign at the local Dollarama and stick it on the windows, that way more people would know about it

I have been on eBay for about 8 years now and I never thought about buying cars there. Maybe it works for some other people, just not my cup of tea.

P.S: Don't forget the fees, if any, that you have to pay eBay. Like I said, I have not had any experience buying or selling cars on eBay so I don't know what the fees entail but I can't imagine it as *Free*. Just like the houses man, if you could sell it on your own, do it, why give somebody else a cut of 2.5% ?

[stock_junkie]

I was told by a couple of people that ebay is actually very effective. I listed the car on Saturday night and it already has 500+ views. No calls yet though...

Ebay is probably not the best place to sell your car since your price will be automatically price-compared with other US listings.

Try to sell it the old way - Classifieds and local print.

You'd be surprised on how many people still don't use the internet.

[Jay-c]

Has Audi shut the doors to selling to Canadians? Just got an email response from a dealer near Rochester to that effect..

Anybody have any other luck?

[raskal]

I listed the car on Saturday night and it already has 500+ views. No calls yet though...

500 views.... and you posted the link in this thread.... I wonder where those views came from???


and yes,.... I was one of those views... though like many others here... probably have no idea why I looked.

[accorder]

Has Audi shut the doors to selling to Canadians? Just got an email response from a dealer near Rochester to that effect..

Anybody have any other luck?

Audi/VW don't appear to allow new car sales to non-U.S. residents. Here is from a U.S. dealer.
http://ataleoftwoprices.com/forum/forums/p/62/85.aspx

[jwstewart]

I don't recall seeing any US financing options. If this is the case then you are either left to finance from the bank or pay cash.

Now I don't know about you but I don't have that kind of liquidity so I would be at the mercy of the bank rates...

In addition if I did find financing I would be out of pocket for duties and taxes.

So am I to assume deals like these are mainly for those with liquidity (cash) or those willing to accept the high Canadian bank loan rates?

Just would like to see more discussion on financing strategies people are using.

I explored 3 options for my purchase, a 2008 Tribeca, plated last week.:D

Pay cash - not an option, for technical reasons ;)

Personal Loan - My bank (big4) offered a personal loan at prime+0.X% which was not secured using the vehicle. That way I would get the money and could convert & transfer it at a low-cost provider. (GlobeXFX) Depending on your credit history, the personal loan could be secured with real estate, investments, children, etc. The amount borrowed could include enough to cover taxes & expenses. (It may even be possible to secure a personal loan with the actual vehicle, but I suspect this would require you to use the same bank to convert & transfer the money)

Personal Line of Credit - Same as Personal Loan, except that the amount could revolve and would allow buying & selling more than 1 vehicle. Be careful with this option, as you are provided with a credit card, the existence of which may become known to spouse.

Conclusion - I see no reason why anyone who is able to borrow to purchase a car in Canada cannot also borrow to purchase a car in the US.

[Jay-c]

Audi/VW don't appear to allow new car sales to non-U.S. residents. Here is from a U.S. dealer.
http://ataleoftwoprices.com/forum/forums/p/62/85.aspx

Thanks. Too bad... had a buddy that wanted to pick up the new S5... nice looking car!

[yyz2hkg]

A little OFF TOPIC, but this thread is about to be the most viewed on RFD... surpassing the Roger's thread...

[EL820]

I was told by a couple of people that ebay is actually very effective. I listed the car on Saturday night and it already has 500+ views. No calls yet though...

I was one of the viewers.

Do you mind telling us why you're selling the vehicle after going through so many hurdles to get it? Just for a quick profit?...not that there is anything wrong with that. :D

[Monsieurmaggot]

A little OFF TOPIC, but this thread is about to be the most viewed on RFD... surpassing the Roger's thread...

Yahoo!

We're withing a couple of hundreds....

And there's no end in sight.....

[ac328]

For ac328 and whomever else is interested, my wife and I just brought back a 2006 Subaru WRX STI from Seattle. We went through the Eastport, ID crossing at about 10pm. Spent about 5 minutes max. at the US side....then 7 minutes max. at the Canadian side. The US officer went out to the car with the title to confirm the VIN...that's it. The Canadian officers didn't even go out to look at the car!! To top it off, they didn't charge me any duty (car's made in Japan). Do I get charged the duty at some other stage of the process?? They also didn't charge the RIV fee, and gave a little piece of paper with RIV's website and phone numbers to contact them for payment and the next form.

Anyways, I'd recommend anyone to go through that border crossing, as it is very lightly used (at least at that hour). From Seattle, it took us 15 hours to get to Calgary, but we did a bunch of shopping along the way and stopped for dinner. Also, didn't really push the speed limit too much...although really, really tempted to :cheesygri

That's awesome smokiebk. Congrats on getting back safely! Glad to hear the crossing is a quiet one. I'll be there myself next Sunday.

Look like you may have dodged a bullet with the duty...my understanding is the CBSA collects it at the time of importation, i.e. at the border when they collected GST from you.

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/pub/bsf5048-eng.html

How were the road conditions?

[michelb]

I was one of the viewers.

Do you mind telling us why you're selling the vehicle after going through so many hurdles to get it? Just for a quick profit?...not that there is anything wrong with that. :D

Actually, legally there is so you have to be careful. Most Canadian provinces have 'curbsider' laws which make it illegal to buy/sell vehicles for profit if you aren't an authorized dealership. I suspect you'd be fine if you just do it once or twice but if you do it more, they are actually quite aggresive about charging people that do it (In Ontario, looks like the OMVIC (basically dealers association) has a lot of spare time and does try to prosecute people that sell cars 'on the side').

[canabiz]

I was one of the viewers.

Do you mind telling us why you're selling the vehicle after going through so many hurdles to get it? Just for a quick profit?...not that there is anything wrong with that. :D

I was also one of the viewers

eBay is getting less attractive for me, too many scammers on there now (I am not talking about stockjunkie LOL), you really have to take your time and do it one step at a time.

[MsDarkDiva]

I just wanted to give out some moral support to those trying to import the inadmissible Nissan Rogue. After calling several dealerships, I managed to find an admissible Aug/2007 build in Massachusetts, (brought in from Maine). I began the transaction Black Friday weekend, brought it through the border early last week and had it inspected at CT this morning! Tomorrow, I'm getting it registered.

Make no mistake, there were a lot of hurdles but now that I've made the finish line, I'm extremely happy and I'd do it again!

So I just wanted to say, keep the faith and stick it to "The Man" it can be done! :lol:

[shopper-X]

I just wanted to give out some moral support to those trying to import the inadmissible Nissan Rogue. After calling several dealerships, I managed to find an admissible Aug/2007 build in Massachusetts, (brought in from Maine). I began the transaction Black Friday weekend, brought it through the border early last week and had it inspected at CT this morning! Tomorrow, I'm getting it registered.

Make no mistake, there were a lot of hurdles but now that I've made the finish line, I'm extremely happy and I'd do it again!

So I just wanted to say, keep the faith and stick it to "The Man" it can be done! :lol:

You should add yourself to the "wall of savers" on www.carburner.com and share what you saved.

[accorder]

for those who have got a Subaru or are considering a Subaru, here is an interesting comparision.

http://ataleoftwoprices.com/forum/forums/p/134/228.aspx#228

[Recoil]

Audi/VW don't appear to allow new car sales to non-U.S. residents. Here is from a U.S. dealer.
http://ataleoftwoprices.com/forum/forums/p/62/85.aspx

Something occurs to me to the effect of home prices in Detroit now being so low that you can get a house there, and therefore an address complete with mailbox, for under a hundred bucks in some cases.

http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2007/11/buy-houses-in-detroit-for-250-monthly.html?sid13

In fact, now there's quite a few going for $10, even $1:
http://homes.realtor.com/search/searchresults.aspx?ctid=2959&ml=3&mxp=2&typ=7

Even theoretically, to those who know more about this kind of thing than I, can this be used as an advantage?

I'm curious what would be involved here.

[the Bez]

I am wondering, for anyone who has successfully imported a Honda or Acura, did you purchase an extended/replacement warranty? Can I ask from who? From Honda Canada or 3rd Party?

To my recollection, I haven't seen or heard this mentioned before in this thread. Any help people could provide would be much appreciated. Thanks.

[jwstewart]

Something occurs to me to the effect of home prices in Detroit now being so low that you can get a house there, and therefore an address complete with mailbox, for under a hundred bucks in some cases.

http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2007/11/...hly.html?sid13

In fact, now there's quite a few going for $10, even $1:
http://homes.realtor.com/search/sear...=3&mxp=2&typ=7

Even theoretically, to those who know more about this kind of thing than I, can this be used as an advantage?

I'm curious what would be involved here.

I'm sure it would involve packing a handgun while spending the weekend at your termite & rat infested crackhouse :twisted:

[Jay-c]

Something occurs to me to the effect of home prices in Detroit now being so low that you can get a house there, and therefore an address complete with mailbox, for under a hundred bucks in some cases.

http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2007/11/buy-houses-in-detroit-for-250-monthly.html?sid13

In fact, now there's quite a few going for $10, even $1:
http://homes.realtor.com/search/searchresults.aspx?ctid=2959&ml=3&mxp=2&typ=7

Even theoretically, to those who know more about this kind of thing than I, can this be used as an advantage?

I'm curious what would be involved here.


Just got off the phone with an audi dealer, he said that the US address they need to see is a US address on your drivers license... so merely owning property doesn't even take care of it... Don't know if there's a way around it, but that's what he said...

[canabiz]

Just got off the phone with an audi dealer, he said that the US address they need to see is a US address on your drivers license... so merely owning property doesn't even take care of it... Don't know if there's a way around it, but that's what he said...

Which there is a way to get around: Simply get a driver's license in Michigan!

I don't know the laws there but I imagine if you own a property you could at least get a driver's license.

[jmlleung]

Which there is a way to get around: Simply get a driver's license in Michigan!

I don't know the laws there but I imagine if you own a property you could at least get a driver's license.

I guess the more important thing is, what is the liability or baggage behind in owning one of those properties. Nothing comes for free, I guess! :lol:

[michelb]

Which there is a way to get around: Simply get a driver's license in Michigan!

I don't know the laws there but I imagine if you own a property you could at least get a driver's license.

Actually, I don't know about Michigan but many states require 'legal status' to get a driver's license (e.g. US Citizenship or work or student visa) and so just owning real estate is not enough to get a Driver's license (you can't get a driver's license without a SSN or visa)

[mr_package]

Ah, forget it.

[mracer]

Dealer questions asked to me when I enquired about buying a new Vette. BTW, answering No to any one of these questions restricts you from buying a New vette:
1. Do you have a US SS#
2. Do you have a valid US driver's licence
3. Do you have a legal US address
ymmv
Mike:confused:

[stock_junkie]

Yeah I'm heading south again next month and thought I'd fly out and drive another new Highlander home. Although the $37,900 that I have it listed at is my break even and would leave me with no profit for my time and effort so I'm hoping to get more obviously.

I was one of the viewers.

Do you mind telling us why you're selling the vehicle after going through so many hurdles to get it? Just for a quick profit?...not that there is anything wrong with that. :D

[yyz2hkg]

A little OFF TOPIC, but this thread is about to be the most viewed on RFD... surpassing the Roger's thread...

Yahoo!

We're withing a couple of hundreds....

And there's no end in sight.....


Still OFF TOPIC, but this thread is officially the most viewed on RFD...:)

[Monsieurmaggot]

Sweet news.

It's already surpassed it by a couple of thousand reads.

....and I must say you don't read much about the Rogers plan in the press or see the OP on the news talking about the savings....

[reddy54]

I am wondering, for anyone who has successfully imported a Honda or Acura, did you purchase an extended/replacement warranty? Can I ask from who? From Honda Canada or 3rd Party?

To my recollection, I haven't seen or heard this mentioned before in this thread. Any help people could provide would be much appreciated. Thanks.

Call CAA

[bababui]

Guys,
what an excellent job by carswithoutborders, as well as this forum for making our government realize that changes need to made in immobilizer issue. Now with the 2 week discussion process well under way, when do you expect this amendment will take affect? This coming Friday (as that would be 2 weeks since announcement) or later?
I am trying to import a 2008 Rogue, but finding one pre-Sep 2007 is like finding a needle in haystack. So basically waiting for the amendment to go through so I can make my purchase and import.
Been reading this and edmunds forum for weeks now, just cannot get the feeling when VAFUS will change.
Thanks

[rrm]

That house at 321 come in and kill me street is nice:)

I'm sure it would involve packing a handgun while spending the weekend at your termite & rat infested crackhouse :twisted:

[niceguy1234]

Someone had asked what problems I had with the recall clearance letter from Toyota awhile back...too many pages back for me to find.

Well...I did exactly what RIV said to do on their recall page. I got a authorized dealership in the US to write a letter (the dealership I bought the car from) with their letter head stating "this vehicle has no outstanding recalls" and the VIN number of course.

Guess what RIV said....not acceptable. I pointed out that the letter was exactly what the site says to do....no joy....rrrrrrrghhhh.

The 08 hybrid has a all weather floor mat recall....something that wasn't put in my vehicle. Toyota US will not issue recall letter until the floor mat recall is completed. US dealership doesn't know how to remove the recall...kind of funny I know. and the local Cdn dealership can't complete the recall.

RIV needs a printout the VIN in Toyota's vehicle inquiry system. I found that out after a few calls and emails to RIV. They have changed the recall requirements and will not post it on their site....typical....


frustrated at RIV and somewhat at Toyota for not being able to clear a recall as simple as this....

Are they trying to discourage CDN's from cross border car buying....probably.

Do you eventually pass the recall from RIV? Can you share your experience because I just paid some deposit for a new 2008 Camry too.

[postdotcom]

Finally, I got my truck back from US. The process is quite smooth. Just one thing, when crossing Detroit border, the back to Canada gate is open only once per hour! I had to wait there for almost one hour...

Have a quick question here. I don't see any French label on the vehicle. For those who successfully passed the CT inspection, will this be a problem or how much and how long will it cost?

[ygtgxi]

is it worth it to buy a 2002-3 jetta used from the states?

[mangoman]

is it worth it to buy a 2002-3 jetta used from the states?

Sure it's worth buying a MKIV VW if you don't mind having your windows drop down every other year because of a poorly designed regulator, have your cruise control die within the first 3 months, replace/clean your MAF sensor evey year, clean out your throttle body assembly once a year, have your rear disc brake pads wear out every 2 years while your fronts take 4-5 because it's designed this way, oh and have to deal with some of the worst customer service in the industry if you don't find an alternate mechanic than the dealers... should I go on?

By the way it might help if you gave a price range, if someone's selling you one for $25000, then I'd say no it's not worth it, if someone's selling you one for $1000 - go for it! :lol:

[thegradas]

no, buy a new city jetta instead

is it worth it to buy a 2002-3 jetta used from the states?

[killbillvol1]

is it worth it to buy a 2002-3 jetta used from the states?

Probably not worth buying a VW, no matter where its from IMO.

That being said, you could probably save a bundle buying used from the States. I did on my 2004 Solara :)

[endura]

Sure it's worth buying a MKIV VW if you don't mind having your windows drop down every other year because of a poorly designed regulator, have your cruise control die within the first 3 months, replace/clean your MAF sensor evey year, clean out your throttle body assembly once a year, have your rear disc brake pads wear out every 2 years while your fronts take 4-5 because it's designed this way, oh and have to deal with some of the worst customer service in the industry if you don't find an alternate mechanic than the dealers... should I go on?
:

:arrowu: +1

[mojof1]

:arrowu: +1

+1

[inspire]

Finally, I got my truck back from US. The process is quite smooth. Just one thing, when crossing Detroit border, the back to Canada gate is open only once per hour! I had to wait there for almost one hour...

Have a quick question here. I don't see any French label on the vehicle. For those who successfully passed the CT inspection, will this be a problem or how much and how long will it cost?

Congrats on crossing the Ambassador Bridge. They must have changed the rule about opening the gate once an hour -- I had to wait about 10 minutes due to the huge volume of traffic the evening I tried to cross (ie Christmas shoppers?)

Anyway -- I have yet to fail a CT inspection due to the lack of French airbag label on the vehicle. I think CT just wants to get paid quickly since if you're buying a new car -- what's gonna be grossly wrong with it, besides not having DRLs or the child seat lock in the back? I wouldn't worry about the label.

That's my $0.02 ...

[eurasian]

Well, I got to admit... I haven't been following the thread much in a few days, so maybe someone already posted this information...

Apparently, there are news with Subaru for 2008. They will not sell new cars to Canadians starting Jan 1, 2008. I am not sure if this information is valid as I don't know the source personally.

Just thought I'd let you know.

[Jay-c]

Well, I got to admit... I haven't been following the thread much in a few days, so maybe someone already posted this information...

Apparently, there are news with Subaru for 2008. They will not sell new cars to Canadians starting Jan 1, 2008. I am not sure if this information is valid as I don't know the source personally.

Just thought I'd let you know.

Why do people post mis-information and even admit that they don't know if the information is valid to begin with!

This is inaccurate - they will continue to be able to sell to Canadians, however some of the incentives will no longer be valid... I'll find the original post later to quote

[eurasian]

Why do people post mis-information and even admit that they don't know if the information is valid to begin with!

This is inaccurate - they will continue to be able to sell to Canadians, however some of the incentives will no longer be valid... I'll find the original post later to quote

Why? Because I feel that people should know? And maybe another member can confirm?

Let me elaborate... I contacted many dealers in the states a couple of weeks ago because I was interested in getting a subaru (still am). Today, I got an email from one of them telling me that they won't sell new cars to Canadians starting January 1, 2008. Was that a pressure tactic? Could be, nevertheless... it can't hurt to be aware of the possibilities since other automakers have done this.

So before you blast other members for the good intentions... get your facts straight or shut your mouth.

[Trexim]

... get your facts straight or shut your mouth.
Ironic????

[scouzi]

Why? Because I feel that people should know? And maybe another member can confirm?

Let me elaborate... I contacted many dealers in the states a couple of weeks ago because I was interested in getting a subaru (still am). Today, I got an email from one of them telling me that they won't sell new cars to Canadians starting January 1, 2008. Was that a pressure tactic? Could be, nevertheless... it can't hurt to be aware of the possibilities since other automakers have done this.

So before you blast other members for the good intentions... get your facts straight or shut your mouth.

It's possible that they won't bother selling to Canadians because it won't be worth it. But there are no rules against it. Subaru will remove the incentives to dealer if the car is exported effectively penalizing them for selling to Canadians.

[eurasian]

Ironic????

Not really. I got "facts" from a sales rep from the states. I just didn't dig deeper in the matter.

Let's cut it... this thread ain't about me and other members blasting ourselves... move on.

[eurasian]

there are no rules against it. Subaru will remove the incentives to dealer if the car is exported effectively penalizing them for selling to Canadians.

That is probably what the sales rep meant when he told me that dealers wont' sell new to canadians in the new year. It's the same tactic used against US Toyota dealers and other dealers south of the border.

[mangoman]

That is probably what the sales rep meant when he told me that dealers wont' sell new to canadians in the new year. It's the same tactic used against US Toyota dealers and other dealers south of the border.

Actually, I don't think that is the same "tactic" at all - the other Manufacturers flat-out told their border-state dealers not to sell to Cdns period. With Subaru, they're still allowed to sell (border-states included) but the prices won't be as attractive as they currently are (but will probably still be cheaper than they are on this side of the border).

If you did receive information to the contrary, you might actually help your cause by posting the details of the information (specific dealer, sales rep) to back up what you may or may not have heard correctly, that way others here can actually gauge or even check into how (in)accurate your original statement was.

Telling others to shut up is definitely not going to win yourself any points or credibility:| .

[hotgo]

get your facts straight or shut your mouth.

I can't believe that someone that posts incorrect information has the gall to criticize a member that actually helps others in this forum. A member that actually went through the process of importing a Subaru.

At least I take comfort in knowing that karma tends to even things out... good luck to you.

[eurasian]

Actually, I don't think that is the same "tactic" at all - the other Manufacturers flat-out told their border-state dealers not to sell to Cdns period. With Subaru, they're still allowed to sell (border-states included) but the prices won't be as attractive as they currently are (but will probably still be cheaper than they are on this side of the border).

If you did receive information to the contrary, you might actually help your cause by posting the details of the information (specific dealer, sales rep) to back up what you may or may not have heard correctly, that way others here can actually gauge or even check into how (in)accurate your original statement was.

Telling others to shut up is definitely not going to win yourself any points or credibility:| .

Hum... originally, I was interested in getting the Camry. So I had called a few dealers down south and many told me they couldn't sell to canadians or they'd get in trouble. I found one (can't remember which) who was willing to do it, problem was... they had to register the car locally and therefore I had to pay state tax (6% I think), which I did not like the Camry enough to do that.

Maybe, this is the tactic that Subaru is coming with this new year, maybe not or maybe it's all BS and they will sell to canadians the same way they are today. The sales rep didn't give me details about why they couldn't, but he just said they couldn't.

Why do I need points? Can I exchange that for a free Tribeca? :D

I wasn't telling "others" to shut up... I was telling "other" to shut up. You need to give respect to get respect. I was shot down and did not appreciate it, since I was giving information out of good intentions. I don't really care if someone has 1 post or 1000 posts, we're all here on an equal level, some have more knowledge than others, but everyone tries to help.

By the way... info came from "Mark" from "Ocean Subaru".

[Tender]

That is probably what the sales rep meant when he told me that dealers wont' sell new to c