Not at fault accident, insurance question..

[dtcanada]

Okay, so I was driving along Elgin Mills Road at around 3:30pm on Saturday when I got hit by this mini Truck...

The full story was that...this truck was ahead of me on Elgin Mills Road when we were at the stop sign...he stopped and turned right on McCowan...then it was mine turn to stop at the stop sign...I stopped...check both ways like usual and go...but this truck that was in front of me changed his mind and suddenly made a U-turn on McCowan and hit me right at the intersection...I drew a little diagram too...please check it out and tell me what you think...

http://www.upload.dinhbros.com/uploads/b000.JPG (http://www.upload.dinhbros.com/uploads/a000.JPG)

My question is...what are my option now? At the time of the accident, my gf was in the car and she was hurt...so I called the cops and the ambulance...they came...gave the other guy a ticket...and I took my gf to the hospital...called the insurance...but it's weekend..so they will get back to me on monday...i think...

I guess my question is...at this point...what else do i have to do?

I really love my ride...and I don't want them just to fix the door and paint it...I want them to replace my doors...is that possible?

I think the frame of my car is messed up too...what do you think they will do with that? is it possible to make my insurance company to replace the frame too?




To enlarge the pictures, click on the picture..

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[Shaner]

With that much damage to the door, they will replace it. You can't just pull that dent out and paint it.

Why would you think the frame is damaged? If it was a truck that hit you, he couldn't have hit you very hard or there would have been more damage. I had almost the same amount of damage done to my car when my neighbour backed into my car with her truck. She was going maybe 10 km/hr.
It doesn't take much to do the amount of damage that is done to your car.

The frame is not likely bent on your car. If it were, the car would have to be totalled.

[dtcanada]

With that much damage to the door, they will replace it. You can't just pull that dent out and paint it.

Why would you think the frame is damaged? If it was a truck that hit you, he couldn't have hit you very hard or there would have been more damage. I had almost the same amount of damage done to my car when my neighbour backed into my car with her truck. She was going maybe 10 km/hr.
It doesn't take much to do the amount of damage that is done to your car.

The frame is not likely bent on your car. If it were, the car would have to be totalled.

well..first off...thanks for the reply...and I don't know much about car...but i think my frame is bent because the frame below used to be straight...not bent like that...

http://www.dtcanada.net/upload/uploads/Image2.jpg

and the bar between the front door and the rear door is also bent...and the truck that was hitting me was not going at 10 km/hr...according to the police report...he was going at aprox 60km/hr...

[dodo]

well..first off...thanks for the reply...and I don't know much about car...but i think my frame is bent because the frame below used to be straight...not bent like that...

and the bar between the front door and the rear door is also bent...and the truck that was hitting me was not going at 10 km/hr...according to the police report...he was going at aprox 60km/hr...

Relax, just bring to toyota recommended auto-body, usually body-work for reputable place is lifetime warranty.
And I don't think that truck is possible to make 60km/h within 10m or make a u-turn at 60km/h either.

[DragonZealot]

The rear door will be replaced they can't fix a door like this. What you want to convince them is to replace the front door as well.

Re the frame, your car like most cars nowadays has uni-body construction there is no "frame". There are, however, structral body members and panels. The bodyshop has tools to measure major dimensions and can pull/press it back to within specification. Judging from the picture the bent is not very significant and it can just be pressed back.

Just mention this to the shop and make sure they address this concern.

[dtcanada]

Relax, just bring to toyota recommended auto-body, usually body-work for reputable place is lifetime warranty.
And I don't think that truck is possible to make 60km/h within 10m or make a u-turn at 60km/h either.

that's true...i was only going at around 25-30km/h and the police said 50km/h...that's pretty crazy...


The rear door will be replaced they can't fix a door like this. What you want to convince them is to replace the front door as well.

Re the frame, your car like most cars nowadays has uni-body construction there is no "frame". There are, however, structral body members and panels. The bodyshop has tools to measure major dimensions and can pull/press it back to within specification. Judging from the picture the bent is not very significant and it can just be pressed back.

Just mention this to the shop and make sure they address this concern.

thank you! I will try to ask for a new door for the front as well..thanks! i was just wondering...if the insurance say "no"...do I have any saying in it?

[DragonZealot]

i was just wondering...if the insurance say "no"...do I have any saying in it?


It differs from insurance company to company. Some companies care about customer satisfaction and some do not. Sometimes it is a judgement call. If there is a good chance that it can be fixed properly and the cost of fixing is lower than the cost of replacing you probably will have a hard time to convince the adjuster.

When you take this to the shop ask them how much more to replace the door. If it is not too much you might want to absorb the extra cost. Generally if it is properly repaired it should be fine.

[nx2k]

are you sure you are not at fault??
from your diagram, he has no stop sign, he made a right turn and made a U turn which is all legal, u stopped, he now has right of way since he has no stop sign, and you couldn't clear the intersection.
unless there was a no U turn posted there, he didn't do anything wrong
part of stopping and crossing a street means you have to safely clear it
it'd be interesting what your insurance company actually says.
im not saying what he did is right but it doesn't appear he didnt' anything wrong by the traffic laws, i hope you win as you were kinda unfortunately stuck in that type of position, but it'd be interesting

[DragonZealot]

are you sure you are not at fault??
from your diagram, he has no stop sign, he made a right turn and made a U turn which is all legal, u stopped, he now has right of way since he has no stop sign, and you couldn't clear the intersection.
unless there was a no U turn posted there, he didn't do anything wrong
part of stopping and crossing a street means you have to safely clear it
it'd be interesting what your insurance company actually says.
im not saying what he did is right but it doesn't appear he didnt' anything wrong by the traffic laws, i hope you win as you were kinda unfortunately stuck in that type of position, but it'd be interesting

The cop gave a ticket to the other guy....

[Shaner]

are you sure you are not at fault??
from your diagram, he has no stop sign, he made a right turn and made a U turn which is all legal, u stopped, he now has right of way since he has no stop sign, and you couldn't clear the intersection.
unless there was a no U turn posted there, he didn't do anything wrong
part of stopping and crossing a street means you have to safely clear it
it'd be interesting what your insurance company actually says.
im not saying what he did is right but it doesn't appear he didnt' anything wrong by the traffic laws, i hope you win as you were kinda unfortunately stuck in that type of position, but it'd be interesting

The way was clear when the OP started to pull through the intersection; therefore, fault lies with the other person. The other guy pulled a U-turn when the way was not clear. Both the direction the car is travelling and the direction the car will be travelling must be clear before doing a U-turn. Both ways were obviously not clear.

[dtcanada]

are you sure you are not at fault??
from your diagram, he has no stop sign, he made a right turn and made a U turn which is all legal, u stopped, he now has right of way since he has no stop sign, and you couldn't clear the intersection.
unless there was a no U turn posted there, he didn't do anything wrong
part of stopping and crossing a street means you have to safely clear it
it'd be interesting what your insurance company actually says.
im not saying what he did is right but it doesn't appear he didnt' anything wrong by the traffic laws, i hope you win as you were kinda unfortunately stuck in that type of position, but it'd be interesting

I am not 100% certain that I am not at fault...that's why i asked the police officer...and he said he charged the other guy for careless driving and making an illegal U-turn on a 80km/hr road...there were double solid yellow line...he was not supposed to cross over the other side...

and from my understanding...when I was at the stop sign...the truck was travelling south on McCowan...so my way was clear...

[pontiac_driver]

I am not 100% certain that I am not at fault...that's why i asked the police officer...and he said he charged the other guy for careless driving and making an illegal U-turn on a 80km/hr road...there were double solid yellow line...he was not supposed to cross over the other side...

and from my understanding...when I was at the stop sign...the truck was travelling south on McCowan...so my way was clear...

wow, if that is the case, the road being clear both ways, you must have took your time to make it across the intersection if the other driver can manage to uturn and come back to nail you.

[dtcanada]

wow, if that is the case, the road being clear both ways, you must have took your time to make it across the intersection if the other driver can manage to uturn and come back to nail you.

yup...i did...i was in no rush...plus...I had to stop for the opposite end too

[ken_ll]

In Ontario, there are insurance rules to settle these situations. Making a U-turn = 100% fault in an accident, no ifs, buts or ors. The ticket the truck driver received was possibly for making an unsafe turn or undue care/attention. See 19(b) in the link.

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/DBLaws/Regs/English/900668_e.htm

I learned the hard way backing up.

[nano]

make sure you sue that idiot there are so many ppl making U-turns and not looking in the Scarborough/Markham area

[aquariaguy]

Damn, that guy must feel stupid, he does a speedy U-Turn and speeds off, only to hit you again LOL. I'm curious how his car looked like? Did he try to argue with cop saying its your fault?

Good luck on your insurance stuff.

[dtcanada]

Damn, that guy must feel stupid, he does a speedy U-Turn and speeds off, only to hit you again LOL. I'm curious how his car looked like? Did he try to argue with cop saying its your fault?

Good luck on your insurance stuff.


no kidding..i was horning him too...and it's like he didn't hear me or something...but he didn't argue anything...he just say sorry and sorry over again and again...the cop talked to us seperately...so I don't know what he told the cop...

I am not sure how his car look like after the accident...I was so mad..I didn't even look at his car...but his car had one of those metal grill at the front...so i don't think it will do him much damange

[dtcanada]

In Ontario, there are insurance rules to settle these situations. Making a U-turn = 100% fault in an accident, no ifs, buts or ors. The ticket the truck driver received was possibly for making an unsafe turn or undue care/attention. See 19(b) in the link.

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/DBLaws/Regs/English/900668_e.htm

I learned the hard way backing up.

thank you so much for the link! it's very useful...thanks again!


make sure you sue that idiot there are so many ppl making U-turns and not looking in the Scarborough/Markham area

sue? how? i thought we can only bring it to our insurance to have the car fixed...we can sue them??

[DragonZealot]

make sure you sue that idiot there are so many ppl making U-turns and not looking in the Scarborough/Markham area


Sue that idiot for what :confused:

[dtcanada]

Opps...i forgot one detail...the insurance was under my dad's name...does that matter?

[nx2k]

In Ontario, there are insurance rules to settle these situations. Making a U-turn = 100% fault in an accident, no ifs, buts or ors. The ticket the truck driver received was possibly for making an unsafe turn or undue care/attention. See 19(b) in the link.

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/DBLaws/Regs/English/900668_e.htm

I learned the hard way backing up.
19B Refers to getting in an accident while making the U-Turn, this was not the case, he was finished the U-turn and going straight to clear the intersection

[thelefteyeguy]

Opps...i forgot one detail...the insurance was under my dad's name...does that matter?

are you listed as a secondary driver?

[dtcanada]

are you listed as a secondary driver?


no...i am not...

[belgiangenius]

WTF...was this guy high or drunk?

[SodiumSulfate]

no...i am not...

I'm no expert, but wouldn't driving a vehicle that you're not insured on get you in a lot of trouble?

[dodo]

no...i am not...
uh.. do you have any insurance at all??
do you live in the same address w/ your dad?
how many vehicle in your house

[dtcanada]

uh.. do you have any insurance at all??
do you live in the same address w/ your dad?
how many vehicle in your house

No...I don't have any insurance at all...I don't live in the same address with my dad...well...my dad's driver license address is at where he live...but his insurance address is at where I live...we have 2 vehicles...both of them are under my dad's name...

[dtcanada]

I'm no expert, but wouldn't driving a vehicle that you're not insured on get you in a lot of trouble?

I don't know...that's why i am worry...cuz I don't drive much...so I didn't bother put my name as a secondary driver...plus...I just got my G a year ago...and I am under 25...so if my dad add me in...his premium would go up quite a bit...

couldn't I just say that my dad lend the car to me just for a few days?

[Narci]

I don't know...that's why i am worry...cuz I don't drive much...so I didn't bother put my name as a secondary driver...plus...I just got my G a year ago...and I am under 25...so if my dad add me in...his premium would go up quite a bit...

You should be fine. If your at fault..his insurance will go up. But your best bet is to check the policy. If you drive the car all the time...that's another story.

[dtcanada]

You should be fine. If your at fault..his insurance will go up. But your best bet is to check the policy. If you drive the car all the time...that's another story.

How would they know if I drive the car a lot or not?

[chickenbones]

I don't know...that's why i am worry...cuz I don't drive much...so I didn't bother put my name as a secondary driver...plus...I just got my G a year ago...and I am under 25...so if my dad add me in...his premium would go up quite a bit...

couldn't I just say that my dad lend the car to me just for a few days?


It's OK if the owner lend the car to someone. In that case you are still covered. Did you say you and your dad live in different addresses? You should make sure next time the address on the insurance is your dad's address. 'Cus insurance companies don't like father and sons living in the same address and the son do not have insurance. He might get hit with a big premium hike.

[thelefteyeguy]

actually your dad could be in trouble with the insurance company or from his agent.

you are definitely lucky that it wasnt your fault...else if the other person has personal injuries you would have had to pay for the damages and potential personal injuries.

there is a reason why there is a mandatory $1000000 Third Party Liability

[Narci]

They probably won't know how much you drive the car but if you get into another accident or speeding ticket, they might start to question how much you drive the car.

actually your dad could be in trouble with the insurance company or from his agent.

How?

[dtcanada]

It's OK if the owner lend the car to someone. In that case you are still covered. Did you say you and your dad live in different addresses? You should make sure next time the address on the insurance is your dad's address. 'Cus insurance companies don't like father and sons living in the same address and the son do not have insurance. He might get hit with a big premium hike.

thanks for the advice...I just called my insurance...they said it will be covered...and most likely that my dad's premium will not go up...but they highly recommend that my dad add my name in...so I guess I will do that once the car if fixed...


actually your dad could be in trouble with the insurance company or from his agent.

you are definitely lucky that it wasnt your fault...else if the other person has personal injuries you would have had to pay for the damages and potential personal injuries.

there is a reason why there is a mandatory $1000000 Third Party Liability

damn...that would be suck...thanks for the info :)

[thelefteyeguy]

How?

he even said it himself...he's under 25...and the fact that his father's premium would go up if he added his name on the insurance.

[dodo]

No...I don't have any insurance at all...I don't live in the same address with my dad...well...my dad's driver license address is at where he live...but his insurance address is at where I live...we have 2 vehicles...both of them are under my dad's name...
that's kinda strange, if it's backward mean your address is just you without any vehicle and everything then should be OK. But now it seem that (officially) you live with the vehicle and your dad 'borrow' (not really the right terms since I think he's the registerred owner) those cars.

[dtcanada]

that's kinda strange, if it's backward mean your address is just you without any vehicle and everything then should be OK. But now it seem that (officially) you live with the vehicle and your dad 'borrow' (not really the right terms since I think he's the registerred owner) those cars.

damn..when u put it that way...that's really messed up...could I just say that his mailing address is with me...but he actually lives somewhere else?

[Narci]

Age has nothing to do with lending someone a car. (though G1,g2 does)

If you lend someone a care, the owner of the vehicle would be in liable if anything happends.

http://www.autoinsurancetips.com/myths.htm

Myth:

"I cannot lend my car to anyone under 25 years old".


Fact :

Wrong!

Any person who has a valid drivers license in Ontario Canada is covered as long as they meet the conditions of their license. I won't get into G1, G2 restrictions here just to keep it simple. Be aware however, that lending your car to a licensed driver may cost you money, if that person does not carry their own car insurance or has an "at fault" accident in your car.


Just say you were at your dads house and had to go pick up your GF for dinner or something so you used his car sonce you were at his house.

[dtcanada]

Age has nothing to do with lending someone a car. (though G1,g2 does)

If you lend someone a care, the owner of the vehicle would be in liable if anything happends.

http://www.autoinsurancetips.com/myths.htm

Myth:

"I cannot lend my car to anyone under 25 years old".


Fact :

Wrong!

Any person who has a valid drivers license in Ontario Canada is covered as long as they meet the conditions of their license. I won't get into G1, G2 restrictions here just to keep it simple. Be aware however, that lending your car to a licensed driver may cost you money, if that person does not carry their own car insurance or has an "at fault" accident in your car.


Just say you were at your dads house and had to go pick up your GF for dinner or something so you used his car sonce you were at his house.

thank you for verifying that, I will keep that in mind...thanks a lot for the advice :cheesygri

[Gingergirl]

If two fault rules apply then fault is 50/50 and you still get hit for half deductible and limit on rental as well this wll be a collison loss on record.

U turn is at fault but scenerio is you make a u turn in front of someone coming from the opposite direction( although this is up for interpretation) the second rule is those who have stop sign must yield to those who don't . If two rules the adjusters will usually go 50/50 . Police charges can sometimes influence but really have no bearing on the insurer's decision. The Insurer in Ontario must follow the FDR Fault Chart as someties called... If I were you would prepare for the worst and hope for the best!!!


Good Luck!!

[thelefteyeguy]

If two fault rules apply then fault is 50/50 and you still get hit for half deductible and limit on rental as well this wll be a collison loss on record.

U turn is at fault but scenerio is you make a u turn in front of someone coming from the opposite direction( although this is up for interpretation) the second rule is those who have stop sign must yield to those who don't . If two rules the adjusters will usually go 50/50 . Police charges can sometimes influence but really have no bearing on the insurer's decision. The Insurer in Ontario must follow the FDR Fault Chart as someties called... If I were you would prepare for the worst and hope for the best!!!


Good Luck!!

woh...that could be bad news...

[superdeals]

If two fault rules apply then fault is 50/50 and you still get hit for half deductible and limit on rental as well this wll be a collison loss on record.

U turn is at fault but scenerio is you make a u turn in front of someone coming from the opposite direction( although this is up for interpretation) the second rule is those who have stop sign must yield to those who don't . If two rules the adjusters will usually go 50/50 . Police charges can sometimes influence but really have no bearing on the insurer's decision. The Insurer in Ontario must follow the FDR Fault Chart as someties called... If I were you would prepare for the worst and hope for the best!!!


Good Luck!!

I don't agree to that! The driver made an illegal U-turn. the other driver is perfectly ok to assume 'the way is clear' and try to cross the intersection. Now it was imperative for the other driver (after making the illegal U turn) to slow down (or stop) to let the car cross the intersection. His unexpected (and illegal) 'action' has caused the accident to happen. I will say you better find a good lawyer and get full reimbursement of the repairing cost.

[Narci]

I tend agree with it. The u-turn was the first infraction but did not cause the accident.

What if the truck was approaching from that way in the first place?

But..if you look at the angles and the damage on your car..you must have been going through the intersection already when the truck hit you.

[Coke355mL]

The op did nothing wrong. It was safe to proceed when stopped at the stop sign and so he did.

[Shaner]

The op did nothing wrong. It was safe to proceed when stopped at the stop sign and so he did.

Exactly.
When the OP comes to a complete stop at the stop sign, he is allowed to proceed through the intersection if it is safe to do so. It was safe to do so at the time the OP made a complete stop (according to him). Now, the other driver performed an unexpected (and possibly illegal) U-turn which caused the accident.

When performing a U-turn, the driver must ensure that both directions are clear, the direction he is travelling and the direction he will be travelling once the U-turn is complete. He should have realized that there was a car behind him at the stop sign and that car was going to proceed through the intersection.
The other driver should have known better.

Since when do people perform U-turns and then just gun it without even looking after they have turned? It's definitely the other drivers fault.

[dtcanada]

What if the truck was approaching from that way in the first place?

But..if you look at the angles and the damage on your car..you must have been going through the intersection already when the truck hit you.

If the truck was approaching from the other way in the first place, i wouldn't have cross the intersection...but he was going AWAY from the intersection, not TOWARD the intersection

[Narci]

If the truck was approaching from the other way in the first place, i wouldn't have cross the intersection...but he was going AWAY from the intersection, not TOWARD the intersection

If he's going away from the intersection? how did he hit you in the intersection?

[dtcanada]

If he's going away from the intersection? how did he hit you in the intersection?

I really took my time at the intersection? plus...he was going "away" from the intersection when I was at the stop sign...not while I was crossing

[aquariaguy]

If he's going away from the intersection? how did he hit you in the intersection?

Cuz, the truck driver is a dumbass who did a U-Turn and came back to whack him............which I find very......................stupid.