Actuarial Science: Waterloo of UofT?

[chlorine]

posting on behalf of my sister... she is debating between going to Waterloo for Co-op Actuarial Science and going to U of T for the non co-op program.

Anybody in either program?

We live in the GTA, so going to U of T means she will continue to live at home and depend on the TTC to get downtown.

Both have accepted her but UW is still waiting for her English proficiency test scores... she has to take another TOEFL-like CAEL test in the summer.

thanks.. any comments would be appreciated.

[wetsnot]

UofT's program is very thorough.
Even with the SOA/CAS exam syllabus changes, I'm still more than prepared to write the exams.

Co-op is good if it's guaranteed placement. Otherwise you'll have to battle it out for a summer internship (this is extremely important).

I would assume she knows about the SOA/CAS exams.
An actuarial science degree won't land you an actuarial job.

Whichever school is choosen, actuarial science is not for the faint at heart. A good student should have 3-4 professional exams completed upon graduation.

The key to success is writing the first professional exam by the 2nd year, and the second exam in the very next sitting. This will almost guarantee an internship with an insurance company in the 3rd year.

Sam Broverman, who write ACTEX manuals for the SOA exams is a professor at UofT

[chickenbones]

I think CO-OP would provide good experience. So I would lean towards UW. But of course there are extra costs involved with going to UW.

I think for most CO-OP terms, she would be most likely working in Toronto. So that's a good balance I would think.

BTW, I'm speaking in general, I think the poster above me knows more specifics.

[M@rk]

I actually considered going into that... my dad has friends who are actuaries and they all say Waterloo is by far the best, in terms of reputation and quality of the program. Plus, co-op would definetely be helpful in a field such as this, so it seems like a no-brainer.

[wetsnot]

I think CO-OP would provide good experience. So I would lean towards UW. But of course there are extra costs involved with going to UW.

I think for most CO-OP terms, she would be most likely working in Toronto. So that's a good balance I would think.
most insurance companies in Toronto don't do co-op for actuaries. They prefer that we fight each other for summer internships.

UofT also has PEY, professional experience year.
Kind of like co-op but placement is not guaranteed.

[veryhuman]

most insurance companies in Toronto don't do co-op for actuaries. They prefer that we fight each other for summer internships.

i'm 4th year in the program at loo. and that's not true.

[chickenbones]

most insurance companies in Toronto don't do co-op for actuaries. They prefer that we fight each other for summer internships.

UofT also has PEY, professional experience year.
Kind of like co-op but placement is not guaranteed.


I see. This is what happens when you have so many smart (mostly Asian) immigrants, who will fight for work experience and work for nothing. And they are smarter and harder working.

[wetsnot]

i'm 4th year in the program at loo. and that's not true.
hmm...maybe insurance companies don't like UofT?
there were no participating companies for PEY.

if placement is guaranteed in waterloo for co-op then for sure i'd say go with waterloo

[M@rk]

I see. This is what happens when you have so many smart (mostly Asian) immigrants, who will fight for work experience and work for nothing. And they are smarter and harder working.

At least they deserve it. It's better than giving jobs to people who coast through their education drunk half the time.

EDIT: we all know both asians and whites do this, so don't call me a racist.

[wetsnot]

At least they deserve it. It's better than giving jobs to people who coast through their education drunk half the time.

EDIT: we all know both asians and whites do this, so don't call me a racist.

we know you meant people at UWO. ;)

i remember seeing UWO's calendar, they have courses for SOA/CAS exams. But i'm not sure if they have degree program for act sci.

[veryhuman]

hmm...maybe insurance companies don't like UofT?
there were no participating companies for PEY.

if placement is guaranteed in waterloo for co-op then for sure i'd say go with waterloo

co-op placement at waterloo is not guaranteed.

we know you meant people at UWO. ;)

i remember seeing UWO's calendar, they have courses for SOA/CAS exams. But i'm not sure if they have degree program for act sci.

yes they do. i have a friend who's having sucess with the program and SOA exams attending UWO.


in the end, its alot to do with self discipline, you can be a highschool graduate. and self study your way to be an actuary. and people will respect that.

[goobelygoop]

At least they deserve it. It's better than giving jobs to people who coast through their education drunk half the time.

EDIT: we all know both asians and whites do this, so don't call me a racist.

LOL That is people at Rye-high...including me! :P

[wetsnot]

co-op placement at waterloo is not guaranteed.


that figures. everything about being an actuary is competitive.




I can't speak for the other schools but I'm 100% confident in UofT's Actuarial Science program. I've been through it. Staff is good. Courses are good. Sam Broverman is amazing. He has this strange way of making complicated questions ridiculously easy.

But i'm pretty sure other schools with an actuarial program are excellent as well. Laval apparently has a good one as well.

[chlorine]

Thanks for all the replies... it's definitely good to hear about people who are attending both schools or have gone through the programs.

just wondering if it's a disadvantage to go to U of T... since you'd have worked less.


The key to success is writing the first professional exam by the 2nd year, and the second exam in the very next sitting. This will almost guarantee an internship with an insurance company in the 3rd year.

Do you mean the summer between 3rd + 4th year? What about the 2 summers before that...


i'm 4th year in the program at loo. and that's not true.

Could you elaborate on your experience there? How tough was it to find co-op placements? When did you write your exams?


I've done PEY as an Engineer and I think it's too long... going back to school is tough for most people after a year off.

What about internationally? Is Waterloo as recognizable as UofT? I guess specially I'm wondering about Hong Kong and the US. Thanks.. I'll ask my sister to come back with more questions...

[actuary]

Not sure if this helps, but I did my studies at UofT.

However, we have more Waterloo grads at my office than any other university. Second place is Western and UofT is a distant third.

I do personally believe that UofT is the better choice, but I am very biased.

[veryhuman]

Could you elaborate on your experience there? How tough was it to find co-op placements? When did you write your exams?


I've done PEY as an Engineer and I think it's too long... going back to school is tough for most people after a year off.

What about internationally? Is Waterloo as recognizable as UofT? I guess specially I'm wondering about Hong Kong and the US. Thanks.. I'll ask my sister to come back with more questions...

i'm actually in the regular program (non co-op) but finding co-op placement is not difficult (finding the perfect one might be a different story), but overall the university will help you out with a placement.

internationally, i've heard of people not knowing what u of t is (in asia), a great minority of the students in the math faculty are visa students (mostly asian from hk, china) and graduate studnets also make up a significant portion of the student population in the program. in my biased opinion, i would think waterloo would have the better reputation.

[winner2000]

To be honest I don't think you'd be at a disadvantage if you went to UofT OR UW...the difference(s) between the two schools is pretty marginal...both are really, really good schools. I'd visit the campus and stuff of both and see which one better suits your wants. I'd be biased towards UW only because I go there, but both are exceptional schools in their own right.

[E-ccentric]

one of my friends is from the barbados and got a national scholarship to any program/school in the world, and she wanted to be an actuary.

i asked her why she chose uw when she could've went to some place nice like cali. apparently uw is one of the best, if not the best school for actsci in north america. all of my friends in actsci got pretty kickass jobs. but then again, they're all brilliant.

[wetsnot]

However, we have more Waterloo grads at my office than any other university. Second place is Western and UofT is a distant third.

Not many UofT students make it to the end of the act sci program. In my 2nd year (which is when the program really starts) there was about 350 in the interest theory course. In my 4th year classes, there were about 20 people per class. But in all honesty most people were in over their heads to begin with. Alot of people aren't as good at calculus as they think they are.


Do you mean the summer between 3rd + 4th year? What about the 2 summers before that...

What about internationally? Is Waterloo as recognizable as UofT? I guess specially I'm wondering about Hong Kong and the US. Thanks.. I'll ask my sister to come back with more questions...


ideally you want an internship between 3rd and 4th year. late enough to complete 2 maybe 3 exams. some are able to get an internship between 2nd and 3rd yr. i only had 1 exam done at that point, so i was pretty far down the list of competition.

waterloo is a very well known for pumping out talented actuaries. there shouldn't be any concern about this.

I don't think you can go wrong with either school for act sci. the key is passing professional exams.

I can vouch for UofT. The program is thorough. Staff is very supportive. Sam Broverman holds review sessions prior to each exam sitting.

[wetsnot]

one of my friends is from the barbados and got a national scholarship to any program/school in the world, and she wanted to be an actuary.

i asked her why she chose uw when she could've went to some place nice like cali. apparently uw is one of the best, if not the best school for actsci in north america. all of my friends in actsci got pretty kickass jobs. but then again, they're all brilliant.
exams is everything.

you can flunk out of school and ace your professional exams and still get a good job as an actuary.

school rep isn't a big deal either. I'd hire someone from Clown College with 6 professional exams over a UofT or UW grad with 1 exam anyday.

[Chookman]

we know you meant people at UWO. ;)

i remember seeing UWO's calendar, they have courses for SOA/CAS exams. But i'm not sure if they have degree program for act sci.

Last I knew they did. I'm looking at an Act. Sci. degree from UWO on my wall with my name on it right now. However, the date does say 1992 so a lot could have happened in the last 15 years. ;)