Do you think recently 'discovered' terrorism is result of Canada's new 'active' role?

[otaku]

Bump as you vote or read please

[FastFokker]

I personally don't know what to think anymore.

[atforum]

active role in what?? gay politics?? :D

[Mr._Hankey]

No.
Terrorism is a result of the rise of Liberalism throughout the world and the abandonment of religious values, which brought to a complete loss of morals.

[otaku]

No.
Terrorism is a result of the rise of Liberalism throughout the world and the abandonment of religious values, which brought to a complete loss of morals.


You are joking right? Right?

[Evil Baby]

No.
Terrorism is a result of the rise of Liberalism throughout the world and the abandonment of religious values, which brought to a complete loss of morals.


I'm confused. Are you saying the abandonment of religion has created less moral people?

[otaku]

active role in what?? gay politics?? :D

Well active role in Afghanistan for example.

[Rehan]

I voted No.
These guys had been monitored for over a year...

[Mr._Hankey]

I'm confused. Are you saying the abandonment of religion has created less moral people?

Precisely.

The conscientious need to be accountable for your actions before a higher power is what used to restrain people from committing crime.

[otaku]

I voted No.
These guys had been monitored for over a year...

Well there is always 'sleeping cells' in almost all countries when it comes to terrorist organizations.

Quick q, since when these people acquired those fertilezers(I mean that bomb making stuff)?

[Rehan]

Well there is always 'sleeping cells' in almost all countries when it comes to terrorist organizations. They weren't part of any terrorist organization...

Quick q, since when these people acquired those fertilezers(I mean that bomb making stuff)? The RCMP gave it to them very recently, and then moved in to make the arrests.

[FastFokker]

In my opinion it honestly doesn't take much to be a terrorist.. they are just otherwise normal people who have beliefs and under certain variables are willing to act on those beliefs in a potentially violent manner.

Being labelled a terrorist is akin to being labelled a criminal. Yet your crime could have been smoking a joint or it could have been killing dozens of people.

It's all perception really.. and I suppose it's not that surprising we're supposedly getting "terrorists", in the same way a crack down on marijuana users, yields more "criminals".

[Evil Baby]

Precisely.

The conscientious need to be accountable for your actions before a higher power is what used to restrain people from committing crime.


It's clear to me that morals have gone down the crapper but I blame that on bad parenting more than religion.

However, these terrorist are extremist. They are extremely religious and I don't think they have very good manners at all.

[gei]

I am very curious to know the process by which these individuals become so brainwashed that they would kill innocent people. I can understand it happening elsewhere in the world as some countries are still living in the dark ages and people are brought up to believe in ghosts and goblins and whatnot.... but here?

[gei]

Do you think recently 'discovered' terrorism is result of Canada's new 'active' role?

What exactly is the point of your question by the way? Do you think that our new "active" role gives them an excuse?

[otaku]

What exactly is the point of your question by the way? Do you think that our new "active" role gives them an excuse?

I think we are speculating at this point. There is no excuse of course but most of these terrorist acts happened in countries which had active role in Afghanistan or Iraq so look at from the statistical perspective not the other way.

[Mr._Hankey]

It's clear to me that morals have gone down the crapper but I blame that on bad parenting more than religion.

Parents can't do anything to keep their children away from the crazy society we live in, unless they raise them in a cage.
It's a bunch of factors that has corrupted our morals but parents are not the ones to blame.

However, these terrorist are extremist. They are extremely religious and I don't think they have very good manners at all.

You give them too much credit. They're not religious, they're just blood thirsty psychopaths.

[Faeton]

In my opinion it honestly doesn't take much to be a terrorist.. they are just otherwise normal people who have beliefs and under certain variables are willing to act on those beliefs in a potentially violent manner.

Being labelled a terrorist is akin to being labelled a criminal. Yet your crime could have been smoking a joint or it could have been killing dozens of people.

It's all perception really.. and I suppose it's not that surprising we're supposedly getting "terrorists", in the same way a crack down on marijuana users, yields more "criminals".

So because we're trying to stop a group of guy trying to "blow us up", we're "labeling" people "terrorist". Yeah, if they're trying to buy 3 tons of fertilizer and blow us up, I think the label of terrorist fits. And I'm glad that the cops are "cracking down" on these "terrorist".

[FastFokker]

What exactly is the point of your question by the way? Do you think that our new "active" role gives them an excuse?Terrorists don't need an excuse, they just need an enemy.

And enemies are sure easy to come by these days.I am very curious to know the process by which these individuals become so brainwashed that they would kill innocent people.Life is brainwashing.. everything you believe has been washed into your brain.

Life experiences and choices leads us all down the road to our fate.

If you want to learn why and how people come down those roads, the resources are out there. There are possibly hundreds of documentaries or docu-drama's even which illustrate, explain and shed light into anothers life, specifically "terrorists".

[FastFokker]

So because we're trying to stop a group of guy trying to "blow us up", we're "labeling" people "terrorist". Yeah, if they're trying to buy 3 tons of fertilizer and blow us up, I think the label of terrorist fits. And I'm glad that the cops are "cracking down" on these "terrorist".Well that mentality although perhaps correct in logic is full of errors if we use history as a method for choosing our future.

"cracking down" on terrorism will not stop terrorism, it's something that must be done to protect the people, but it's not a solution to the problem if you catch my drift.

[Flyer]

I say no, since we never know WHAT CSIS is up to nowadays.

[Evil Baby]

Parents can't do anything to keep their children away from the crazy society we live in, unless they raise them in a cage.
It's a bunch of factors that has corrupted our morals but parents are not the ones to blame.


I don't really see how liberal society has made moral teachings impossible. If anything it should make us more moral. We should be more tolerant to more things. We should be more understanding of people's differences. People shouldn't need a religion just to be a good person. I know I don't.


You give them too much credit. They're not religious, they're just blood thirsty psychopaths.


I never said they were following their religion correctly, but they are very religous.

[Evil Baby]

We were on Osoma's hit list long before our current role in Canada.


I'm sure it would take longer than 2 months to properly organize, train and plan a proper terrorist act.

[NG]

You are joking right? Right?

I doubt it and another Neo-Con goes on my ignore list that got on a role with Bree.

[NG]

We were on Osoma's hit list long before our current role in Canada.


I'm sure it would take longer than 2 months to properly organize, train and plan a proper terrorist act.

One of the news reports I saw (sorry seen so many this weekend I can't source it) said associates of the accused stated that the new Afghan mission is what pushed it from being prepared to do this to enacting it.

[gorf]

No.

And another one makes the ignore list. :lol:

[Mr._Hankey]

I don't really see how liberal society has made moral teachings impossible. If anything it should make us more moral. We should be more tolerant to more things. We should be more understanding of people's differences. People shouldn't need a religion just to be a good person. I know I don't.

You're right, this was the idea, but something got so messed up along the way that now we're back to the days of Sodom & Gomorrah in relation to our way of life, our beliefs and conceptions of right and wrong and generally, how any form of authority conducts the mechanisms it's responsible for.
The insane corruption worldwide is one of the major consequences of the failure of Liberalism and Democracy. How I see it, terrorism is just an anarchistic way of exploiting the cracks in our sick Democracies to achieve some unknown final outcome.

[Peckerwood]

The terror cells have been active for a while...the fact that the previous Liberals have refused to encourage or allow any arrests through the CSIS and the RCMP borders on criminal negligence.

I am sure though that had a bomb been set off and buildings demolished a year from now, that the Libs and NDP would be all over the Cons blaming them for their lax behaviour etc :rolleyes:

And in all truth the pattern would have repeated itself had the Libs been in power rather then the Cons.

It was 3 tonnes of ANFO(potential) and it wasn't as if they were gonna smuggle it across to the US...this was Canadian borne...and directed at Canadians...the question should be asked as to how long this was in the works...and how long CSIS and previous governments knew about it.

So as far as "discovered" I say no.

As far as "active" I say yes.

p.s. If NG keeps putting people on ignore then he will soon run out of people to talk to... ;) ...Normally, NG, I would put you on iggy...but I enjoy the comedic relief you provide in your posts, in that your vain attempt at seriousness makes me smile :D <-- See?

[Crotchety Old Man]

"Active" -- that's a great euphemism for our newfound terroristic national policies!

[Crotchety Old Man]

We were on Osoma's hit list long before our current role in Canada.
Don't tell me we're 'active' there, too?!?

[FastFokker]

Just heard that it's quite likely that this 'discovered' terrorism is part of a sweep that is done JUST before the reviewal of the constitutionality of anti-terrorism laws.

Wow, that would be no surprise... wait until right before the laws are being reviewed / up for renewal and then bust some kids for "terrorism". Well that seems like justification for keeping our laws AS IS. :rolleyes:

The stupid part is we're fighting this "terrorism" in Afghanistan, and throwing around the concept of ID cards and beefing up immigration/border control.. yet these (and most) terrorists are perfectly legal and legitimate citizens.

ID Cards and locking down the borders and fighting "terrorism" in Afghanistan would not and will not stop such "terrorist" activities.

[Evil Baby]

One of the news reports I saw (sorry seen so many this weekend I can't source it) said associates of the accused stated that the new Afghan mission is what pushed it from being prepared to do this to enacting it.

I could see that I suppose. I might push somebody over the edge

[Div]

Terrorist groups have used Canada as a safe haven for years. Its just that they are now looking at Canada as more than just a place to congretate and raise money - so now they must bite the hands that have fed them.

[gei]

Just heard that it's quite likely that this 'discovered' terrorism is part of a sweep that is done JUST before the reviewal of the constitutionality of anti-terrorism laws.

Wow, that would be no surprise... wait until right before the laws are being reviewed / up for renewal and then bust some kids for "terrorism". Well that seems like justification for keeping our laws AS IS. :rolleyes:

Ah here we go... didn't take too long.

So there really are no terrorists... it's just a big government conspiracy!

:rolleyes: x 1000

[CodecX81]

couple of looped up kids trying to put their faces in the world. Their God would be ashamed of them.

[FastFokker]

Ah here we go... didn't take too long.

So there really are no terrorists... it's just a big government conspiracy!I never claimed they weren't terrorists, although they are supposedly innocent until proven guilty, correct? This is a right all Canadians have, at least to my knowledge.

Though this is the problem with how things work.. we plaster this crap up all over, hype it up and sell it as truth and people suck it in without a doubt. ;)

Unfortunately the outcomes are rarely publicized even a fraction of the extent of the initial charges. If true, it is suspect that these busts (and potentially more) are just now occuring when the laws are up for reviewal.

[Evil Baby]

Ah here we go... didn't take too long.

So there really are no terrorists... it's just a big government conspiracy!

:rolleyes: x 1000



I would say if there is a conspiracy it's more of a CSIS/RCMP conspiracy than a Government one.

[FastFokker]

Anti-terrorism Act ( 2001, c. 41 )
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/A-11.7/index.html

Review and Report

Review

145. (1) Within three years after this Act receives royal assent, a comprehensive review of the provisions and operation of this Act shall be undertaken by such committee of the Senate, of the House of Commons or of both Houses of Parliament as may be designated or established by the Senate or the House of Commons, or by both Houses of Parliament, as the case may be, for that purpose.

Report

(2) The committee referred to in subsection (1) shall, within a year after a review is undertaken pursuant to that subsection or within such further time as may be authorized by the Senate, the House of Commons or both Houses of Parliament, as the case may be, submit a report on the review to Parliament, including a statement of any changes that the committee recommends.Seems to be about time for reviewal.. no?

[bambam]

From the beginning this seems a psych ops (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_operations) to me.

[NG]

Terrorist groups have used Canada as a safe haven for years.

Uh huh...I guess the Anti-Terrorism law that FF posted just doesn't exist then.

This is nothing more than blaming the victim. Canada was asking for it "for wearing a tight skirt".


Its just that they are now looking at Canada as more than just a place to congretate and raise money - so now they must bite the hands that have fed them.

That's some....errrr.....real "deductive reasoning" you've got there. My bet, hands down, it'll come out these nutbars were interested in this for awhile but when Harper decided to lock us into cleaning up and killing for America till 2009 this is what pushed them over the edge.

[hagbard]

They were going to blow up Parliament. Damn.

[asim99]

No.
Terrorism is a result of the rise of Liberalism throughout the world and the abandonment of religious values, which brought to a complete loss of morals.
most of the "morals" are silly to begin with...the fewer of them, the better it is!

[eelfliw]

This new "terrorism" in Toronto will be Harper's 9-11.

He'll use it to score political points, keep troops in the middle east (to keep Bush happy) and take away our rights, freedom and civil liberties.

How come discoveries like these don't happen during Cretien or Martin's reign??

[Evil Baby]

This new "terrorism" in Toronto will be Harper's 9-11.

He'll use it to score political points, keep troops in the middle east (to keep Bush happy) and take away our rights, freedom and civil liberties.

How come discoveries like these don't happen during Cretien or Martin's reign??


Are you suggesting that Harper planted these people here?


There were arrest under the terrorist act when the Liberals were in power as well.

[Rehan]

Hmm... I wonder if CSIS has been investigating me 'cause I have so many posts on an anti-gov't discussion forum. :|




(I'm referring to RFD. hehe.
Tongue. cheek. all that jazz.)

[FastFokker]

Hmm... I wonder if CSIS has been investigating me 'cause I have to many posts on an anti-gov't discussion forum. :|They sure are, especially since you're a moderator on an anti-gov't fanatical internet bulletin board website. :lol:

Don't feel bad though, many of us on here are probably kept on the same computers and filing cabinets. :|

[Div]

Terrorist groups have used Canada as a safe haven for years.Uh huh...I guess the Anti-Terrorism law that FF posted just doesn't exist then.

I meant that Canada has been a safe haven for decades. Pre-2001 when this law was created.

[Mr._Hankey]

most of the "morals" are silly to begin with...the fewer of them, the better it is!

Most of these morals are what every western society was built on in the first place, not to mention all today's basic laws that are based on similar laws from the old testament.
You can't snub any of the ancient books without having the slightest knowledge about their contents.

[Ojam]

Most of these morals are what every western society was built on in the first place, not to mention all today's basic laws that are based on similar laws from the old testament.
You can't snub any of the ancient books without having the slightest knowledge about their contents.

Your ancient books that preach slave morality are predated by master morality which was the basis to civilization far before Christianity was even a twinkle in some smart sales-men's eye.

[Mr._Hankey]

Your ancient books that preach slave morality are predated by master morality which was the basis to civilization far before Christianity was even a twinkle in some smart sales-men's eye.

Is that a reason to dismiss them completely?

[akpower]

It's clear to me that morals have gone down the crapper but I blame that on bad parenting more than religion.



Parents cannot control everything their kids do. These kids are being exploited by people who have grander plans.

But lets not jump the gun, lets all wait for an honest and fair trial and if in fact these guyz are convicted then we all will bash them like there is no tomorrow.

[Ojam]

Is that a reason to dismiss them completely?

Yes, if your only reason to think they are right is simply because they have been used for a long time, all I'm saying is they were not always what society considered moral. What society considered moral changed around the fall of the Roman Empire and new morals came from resentment of the old morals (slaves’ resentment of the masters). Do you really think resentment is a good emotion to base morals on?

[Kurtz7834]

No. Canada has been on Al Qaeda's target list for quite some time. Muslim extremists hate Canadian ideologies regardless of whether or not we participate in military conflicts such as Afghanistan.

Islamic religious fanatics can never be appeased. They must be stopped, against their will. The latest arrests are a good start.

[Nemodigital]

No. Canada has been on Al Qaeda's target list for quite some time. Muslim extremists hate Canadian ideologies regardless of whether or not we participate in military conflicts such as Afghanistan.

Islamic religious fanatics can never be appeased. They must be stopped, against their will. The latest arrests are a good start.
They can only be appeased temporarily such as in Spain.

[Mr._Hankey]

Yes, if your only reason to think they are right is simply because they have been used for a long time, all I'm saying is they were not always what society considered moral. What society considered moral changed around the fall of the Roman Empire and new morals came from resentment of the old morals (slaves’ resentment of the masters). Do you really think resentment is a good emotion to base morals on?

I never said the moral code of these books should be adopted to its full extent. I'm referring to the ones that were still acceptable, perhaps ~50 years ago, but were abandoned simply because people stopped caring and feeling accountable for their behaviour.
For example, what stops you from going out on a killing spree other than the law? Your conscience, but what happens when it's gone? This is the essence of religion IMO.

[Ojam]

I never said the moral code of these books should be adopted to its full extent. I'm referring to the ones that were still acceptable, perhaps ~50 years ago, but were abandoned simply because people stopped caring and feeling accountable for their behaviour.

I never said any of the moral codes in those books were right, infact I pretty much said they were all wrong, based on the way they become what society values.


For example, what stops you from going out on a killing spree other than the law? Your conscience, but what happens when it's gone? This is the essence of religion IMO.

Elephants don't go around killing other Elephants, and as far as I know they have no religion.

[hagbard]

The sheeple have spoken.

[Mr._Hankey]

I never said any of the moral codes in those books were right, infact I pretty much said they were all wrong, based on the way they become what society values.

Maybe you read the wrong books.


Elephants don't go around killing other Elephants, and as far as I know they have no religion.
:confused:

[Ojam]

Maybe you read the wrong books.


The morals I speak of do not come from a book. So maybe you read to much.

[Evil Baby]

For example, what stops you from going out on a killing spree other than the law? Your conscience, but what happens when it's gone? This is the essence of religion IMO.


You certainly don't need religion to have a conceience. It's more common sense. Killing somebody just isn't the correct thing to do.

[xKagex]

The sheeple have spoken.

:!:

[fakishan]

For example, what stops you from going out on a killing spree other than the law?
It is a frightening fact that religion is the only thing holding you back from going on a killing spree. It further supports the theory that religion breeds the most hypocritical and evil of people.

Normal people wouldn't go on a killing spree because it is detrimental to themselves. Normal people think of themselves (and family) foremost. Behaving aggresively in turn makes other behave the same and before you know it, you're chances of a long and happy life are slim to none.

Most people decide not be a bad person. Why? Because there will always be someone stronger and smarter to stop you. If you wish to live a long life, you have to behave and promote good behaviour so as to restrict the number of misbehaving people. You can bury yourself in nice sounding terms such as morality and dignity, but in the end, you will treat someone as you expect to be treated. If you don't want to be robbed and killed, you don't promote that behaviour.

[eelfliw]

Are you suggesting that Harper planted these people here?


There were arrest under the terrorist act when the Liberals were in power as well.
Where did I suggest Harper planted these people?

Bush didn't plan 9/11. Harper didn't plant these people.

But these politicians definitely knows how to use these events to shape and control popular opinion.

Harper's speech about terrorists attacking us because of who we are is well timed. It's going to boost his ratings. He's an excellent political opportunist.

[Casanova]

Where did I suggest Harper planted these people?

Bush didn't plan 9/11. Harper didn't plant these people.

But these politicians definitely knows how to use these events to shape and control popular opinion.

Harper's speech about terrorists attacking us because of who we are is well timed. It's going to boost his ratings. He's an excellent political opportunist.

agreed, it is very sinister.

[FastFokker]

America gets Bush in office and there's a boom in "terrorist" activity, specifically that aimed at Americans.

Canada gets Harper in office and now there's a boom in "terrorist" activity, specifically that aimed at Canadians.