Bush secretly collecting records of average Americans phone calls

[NG]

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Congressional Republicans and Democrats demanded answers from the Bush administration Thursday about a government spy agency secretly collecting records of ordinary Americans' phone calls to build a database of every call made within the country. http://edition.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/05/11/nsa.phonerecords.ap/

And this is the guy Harper is fashioning his administration after. Oy Vey...

[Kommander_KornFlakes]

I hope all the idiot neo-cons followers of Bush and Harper are the ones being recorded and red-flagged. Conservatives make our IQ go down the rocks :(

So how's our progress in the fake "war on terror"?

[Kurtz7834]

It's sad to see the US becoming a police state.

[NG]

wow...CBC's Canada Now just quoted someone (sorry didn't catch who) that Bush and his Cons have created the largest database in the history of the world!

[Rehan]

wow...CBC's Canada Now just quoted someone (sorry didn't catch who) that Bush and his Cons have created the largest database in the history of the world! http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-10-nsa_x.htm?POE=NEWISVA
"It's the largest database ever assembled in the world," said one person, who, like the others who agreed to talk about the NSA's activities, declined to be identified by name or affiliation. The agency's goal is "to create a database of every call ever made" within the nation's borders, this person added.

Skype and similar apps will get around that so easily. :|

[NG]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-10-nsa_x.htm?POE=NEWISVA

Thanks....geez. That's insane.

For the record the only company not to let Bush go through their records was Qwest.

Funny....I used to know somebody who worked for Qwest (call centre) and hew said they were the worst when it came to customer care.

Guess they know when to do it when it counts.

[xKagex]

Let's all breathe a collective sigh of relief at how much safer we all are: Aaaaahhhhh.

[ammar910]

hahaha USA is becomming similar to many other police countries around the world like my home country Egypt

[devious9191]

Maybe someone could elaborate on why this is a bad thing? They aren't listening to telephone calls, but looking for calling patterns. It doesn't infringe on anyone's right to do anything, and helps keep their country more secure..

[Crotchety Old Man]

Land of the "free", home of the naive.

[NG]

Maybe someone could elaborate on why this is a bad thing? They aren't listening to telephone calls, but looking for calling patterns. It doesn't infringe on anyone's right to do anything, and helps keep their country more secure..

When I'm done shaking my head in disbelief I'll explain but for now I just want to point out that this is the thinking of the Stephen Harper Conservative Crowd.

I hope Canadians take that into consideration when they're thinking about voting against a party because of past issues in the next election.

[Bordello]

NG, do you ever get tired of arguing politics on a deals site?

[devious9191]

When I'm done shaking my head in disbelief I'll explain but for now I just want to point out that this is the thinking of the Stephen Harper Conservative Crowd.

I hope Canadians take that into consideration when they're thinking about voting against a party because of past issues in the next election.

lol. Or, you could just give us your opinion on why this is a bad thing and save on the rhetoric.. I'm not sure what anyone is 'losing' from this, but I can see what people are gaining. If you could just clarify the losing, maybe I could see why everyone is so incensed about this.

[NG]

NG, do you ever get tired of arguing politics on a deals site?

What makes you think that a deals site is the only place I'm arguing politcs ;)

[NG]

lol. Or, you could just give us your opinion on why this is a bad thing and save on the rhetoric.. I'm not sure what anyone is 'losing' from this, but I can see what people are gaining. If you could just clarify the losing, maybe I could see why everyone is so incensed about this.

For starters how about keeping this secret? How about what his next steps are? How would we know what his next steps are if he has a trackrecord of keeping this a secret? How about our personal privacy. The personal privacy we expect be being law biding citizens?

Are you saying Qwest was wrong in not providing records of their customers? If so why?

[Bordello]

What makes you think that a deals site is the only place I'm arguing politcs ;)
Nice way of answering a question with another question, but did I say that it was? You are arguing politics on a deals site aren't you?

[devious9191]

For starters how about keeping this secret? How about what his next steps are? How would we know what his next steps are if he has a trackrecord of keeping this a secret? How about our personal privacy. The personal privacy we expect be being law biding citizens?

Are you saying Qwest was wrong in providing records of their customers? If so why?

Do you think that the phone numbers that you contact, and how contact you can be abused? Noone's going to be sent to jail for calling a phone number, however if it helps them track known terrorists, I'm all for it. It seems like a very very small personal liberty to give up, for the sake of increased security.

I don't follow the Qwest question.. what records did they provide?

[xKagex]

I can never finish reading what NG has to say because his avatar sends me into epileptic seizures.

[NG]

It seems like a very very small personal liberty to give up, for the sake of increased security.

And to be safe we have to give up personal liberities? Well I guess a Stephen Harper would prefer taking away liberty instead of responsible government.

I don't follow the Qwest question.. what records did they provide?

Should have read:

Are you saying Qwest was wrong in not providing records of their customers? If so why?

[NG]

Nice way of answering a question with another question, but did I say that it was? You are arguing politics on a deals site aren't you?

I assumed you could read between the lines however since I'll have to explain. Of course I enjoy it if I do it here and on other sites.

Why post a billions posts on a politics site where everybody is obsessed with politics.

I'd much rather point out what the conservatives here in Canada and the states do to those who have been turned off by the coporate media.

[NG]

I can never finish reading what NG has to say because his avatar sends me into epileptic seizures.

Crap. Even if you're joking that still brings up a point I never considered.

I'll get my old L one back asap.

[devious9191]

And to be safe we have to give up personal liberities? Well I guess a Stephen Harper would prefer taking away liberty instead of responsible government.

Responsible government makes the tough choices to protect citizens at the cost of votes ;p Legalizing marijuana and outlawing firearms isn't going to prevent many terrorist attacks.

I did read. I'm not sure what Qwest is, or what you're referring to.. Who's information did they release, and to whom?

[NG]

Responsible government makes the tough choices to protect citizens at the cost of votes ;p Legalizing marijuana and outlawing firearms isn't going to prevent many terrorist attacks.

I did read. I'm not sure what Qwest is, or what you're referring to.. Who's information did they release, and to whom?

Damn - changed the post but not the quote. They're both correct now. Quest was the only company that did not release the info to the feds.

Responsible choices equal - in your own words - giving up a personal liberities?

Well....like I said. If the people reading this like the idea of the government archiving every telephone call you make with the help of Bell and Telus then the Conservative party is your place.

If not then the danger the Conservatives present may not be worth a protest vote.

[NG]

http://www.notacolony.ca/harper_bush_4.jpg

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Congressional Republicans and Democrats demanded answers from the Bush administration Thursday about a government spy agency secretly collecting records of ordinary Americans' phone calls to build a database of every call made within the country.

gotta love cartoon bubbles...

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/6247/0s2nydshgh9oy.jpg

[devious9191]

Damn - changed the post but not the quote. They're both correct now. Quest was the only company that did not release the info to the feds.

Responsible choices equal - in your own words - giving up a personal liberities?

Well....like I said. If the people reading this like the idea of the government archiving every telephone call you make with the help of Bell and Telus then the Conservative party is your place.

If not then the danger the Conservatives present may not be worth a protest vote.

*shrug. Each person values things differently. I think the trade is more than fair. In any case, it's not something we need to worry about one way or the other in Canada. We can't afford to fix potholes on our major highways let alone maintain massive databases.

[xKagex]

You honestly don't have a problem with the government tapping your phone and recording your conversations? I find that hard to believe, but OK, each to their own. You do realize the government should serve its people, not the other way around, right? These are supposed to be democracies.

[devious9191]

You honestly don't have a problem with the government tapping your phone and recording your conversations? I find that hard to believe, but OK, each to their own. You do realize the government should serve its people, not the other way around, right? These are supposed to be democracies.

They aren't tapping anyone's phones or recording their conversations.. that I would have a problem with. They are tracking telephone numbers that people call and are called by.. run it through some crazy algorithm and see if it fits a pattern with someone planning a terrorist attack. Whether or not it works.. I don't know, how it works, I definitely don't know.. but they aren't listening to random telephone calls. They still need a court order to tap a phone line.. same as always.

[Rehan]

You honestly don't have a problem with the government tapping your phone and recording your conversations? This database is not of recorded phone calls, it's only the list of who called whom just like it's reported on the monthly statement of your mobile phone. They're basically taking all of the call records from all of the telephone companies (except Qwest?) and putting them together in one huge database instead of hundreds of separate databases.

[xKagex]

My bad, I misunderstood.

[konfusion666]

This database is not of recorded phone calls, it's only the list of who called whom just like it's reported on the monthly statement of your mobile phone. They're basically taking all of the call records from all of the telephone companies (except Qwest?) and putting them together in one huge database instead of hundreds of separate databases.

That's still protected under privacy legislation, is it not?

[NG]

*shrug. Each person values things differently. I think the trade is more than fair. In any case, it's not something we need to worry about one way or the other in Canada. We can't afford to fix potholes on our major highways let alone maintain massive databases.

The US is more indept than ever and they're finding a way to do this. Canada has a huge surplus that Harper is spending. Since we didn't know Bush was doing this until now for all we know Harper is secretly doing exactly the same thing with the money he saved from slashing programs to protect the enviroment.

In any case I think we understand eachother. The Conservative supporter is in favour of the US Bush program to archive every phone call Americans make thus creating the largest database in human history as a worthwhile trade off for protecting themselves in their War on Terror.

The person who opposes the Conservatives oppose this plan. As all others in this thread who oppose the Conservatives seem to feel.

I hope voters on this site take this into consideration during our next trip to the polls.

[NG]

This database is not of recorded phone calls, it's only the list of who called whom just like it's reported on the monthly statement of your mobile phone. They're basically taking all of the call records from all of the telephone companies (except Qwest?) and putting them together in one huge database instead of hundreds of separate databases.

Since we didn't know this was going on how do we know that won't be next on the cons agenda?

[ronin893]

*shrug. Each person values things differently. I think the trade is more than fair. In any case, it's not something we need to worry about one way or the other in Canada. We can't afford to fix potholes on our major highways let alone maintain massive databases.Well, we can afford the gun registry, that's one massive database. Yup, give up some liberties for the sake of security, even though it's largely ineffective and grossly expensive. You support the gun registry, right?

[hagbard]

And this is the guy Harper is fashioning his administration after. Oy Vey...

Oy vey is right. The company that's doing all the "collecting" is based in Israel.

[mattpiloto]

When I'm done shaking my head in disbelief I'll explain but for now I just want to point out that this is the thinking of the Stephen Harper Conservative Crowd.

I hope Canadians take that into consideration when they're thinking about voting against a party because of past issues in the next election.

ROFLMAO!!!! When I'm done laughing I too will explain but for now I just want to point out that I am one of the "Stephen Harper Conservative Crowd" and I see this as a gross invasion of privacy. For the record, as much as you may dislike him, Stephen Harper is NOT George W. Bush.

[mattpiloto]

In any case I think we understand eachother. The Conservative supporter is in favour of the US Bush program to archive every phone call Americans make thus creating the largest database in human history as a worthwhile trade off for protecting themselves in their War on Terror.


NG...I'm dissapointed in you...I hardly think this has anything to do with Conservatives, Liberals, Republicans, Democrats, Plutocrats, Autocrats, or any ives, als, cans or ats of any kind. If you really want to get technical I would say this is a very communist thing of Mr. Bush to do, but to make a statement that suggesting what you have suggested is a little silly.

Knowingly or not, our old pal dubbya is creating a police state (or, perhaps more appropriately, one is being created on his watch, but he's the President, so he gets the glory).

Conspiracy or not, this is a very bad thing. No, they are not recording phone conversations, but they are recording who calls who. That's really none of their business.

Unfortunately, this is not the only such database in existence. For starters, the very same thing is done with cell phones so they can bill you. Everytime you use a credit card/debit card/cheque, there is a record of what you have purchased. Do you belong to any points/savings clubs? (Air Miles, Save on Points, Safeway Club, etc, etc) Many of these also keep a record of what you have purchased. In many cases the intent is innocent (Air Miles tracks where you get points from and gives you rewards - nothing terribly sinister about that). But what happens when someone like Mr. Bush comes along and says to Air Miles- "In the interest of National Security, we're going to need access to your records". That's not so good, is it? Next thing you know someone is knocking at your door asking why you eat at Boston Pizza so much and get so many points from Shell. See how it works?

[gordholio]

lol. Or, you could just give us your opinion on why this is a bad thing and save on the rhetoric.. I'm not sure what anyone is 'losing' from this, but I can see what people are gaining. If you could just clarify the losing, maybe I could see why everyone is so incensed about this.
Don't worry, when they're putting a microchip in your hand, you'll know why people are upset.
It starts slowly, then, by the time you know it, all your rights are gone.

[NG]

For the record, as much as you may dislike him, Stephen Harper is NOT George W. Bush.

"[Y]our country [the USA], and particularly your conservative movement, is a light and an inspiration to people in this country and across the world."

- Conservative leader Stephen Harper, then vice-president of the National Citizens Coalition, in a June 1997 Montreal meeting of the Council for National Policy, a right-wing American think tank.
http://www.intheirownwords.ca/harper.html

.

[NG]

For the record, as much as you may dislike him, Stephen Harper is NOT George W. Bush.

Canada may elect the most pro-American leader in the Western world. Free-market economist Stephen Harper, leader of the opposition Conservative Party, is pro-free trade, pro-Iraq war, anti-Kyoto, and socially conservative. Move over Tony Blair: If elected, Mr. Harper will quickly become Mr. Bush's new best friend internationally and the poster boy for his ideal foreign leader.


A Harper victory may prove to be the exception to the international rule -- a rare foreign event that manages to put a smile on President George W. Bush's face.

Washington Times Editorial (http://washingtontimes.com/commentary/20051201-081526-4938r.htm)

[mattpiloto]

.

I can play that too ;)

"Germans who wish to use firearms should join the SS or the SA - ordinary citizens don't need guns, as their having guns doesn't serve the State."

Heinrich Himmler (commander of the German Schutzstaffel)


"I came to Ottawa with the firm belief that the only people in this country who should have guns are police officers and soldiers."

Allan Rock (former Liberal MP, champion of the long gun registry and, until recently, Canada's ambassador to the UN)

Disclaimer - Misguided as he is, Allan Rock is not a Nazi

[NG]

A Harper victory may...put a smile on President George W. Bush's face.[/B]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/Titan62/News%20Images/HarperAndBush_01.jpg

Yep....looks pretty happy.

[NG]

I can play that too ;)



Disclaimer - Misguided as he is, Allan Rock is not a Nazi

Said it in the gun thread and I'll say it here. You're really grasping a straws to pull out a Hitler reference.

Just like The Ratz did about the Forrest Gump movie.

[Shaner]

NG - You are the most ignorant person on this entire board.

Lets recap your main points.

Bush did something bad and didn't tell anyone, so we should be worried that Harper may also do something bad and not tell anyone.

They are two completely different people with two completely different plans for their respective nations. Compared to Bush, Harper is extremely far left!

I'm a conservative supporter yet I think Bush is a ****** who should be impeached. This database of his should be dismantled. If Americans want to support such a database, so be it, but to do it behind the nations back is frightening.

The Conservatives are only the same in name, nothing more.

You constantly posting a picture of Bush and Harper shaking hands is just down right pathetic and shows your ignorance. I have shaked hands with federal inmates before, does that mean I'm going to follow in their foot steps and go kill people? I can guarantee that Paul Martin has shaken Bush's hand before as well. Does that mean Martin wanted to follow in Bush's foot steps?

Nothing but uninteligent Liberal fear mongering and Liberal ignorance. there's absolutely no thought put into your posts whatsoever.

This is an American database run by American government officials. This has nothing to do with Canada or the Conservatives.

[mattpiloto]

Said it in the gun thread and I'll say it here. You're really grasping a straws to pull out a Hitler reference.

Just like The Ratz did about the Forrest Gump movie.

Maybe. You seem to have missed my point though. Allan Rock is not, and never will be, as evil as Heinrich Himmler. He did, however, quote him nearly word for word 60 years later and shares the exact same opinion on the issue. Does that make him a Nazi? Hardly.

Just as Allan Rock != Heinrich Himmler, Stephen Harper != George W Bush (for one, he speaks English :P )

[konfusion666]

Just as Allan Rock != Heinrich Himmler, Stephen Harper != George W Bush

Therefore, Allan Rock == Stephen Harper?! Aah, it makes perfect sense now! :cheesygri

[NG]

NG - You are the most ignorant person on this entire board.

Again with the insulting personal remarks by Conservatives. Well it's how Harper and his cronies seem to operate on the Federal level so I shouldn't be suprised.


They are two completely different people with two completely different plans for their respective nations. Compared to Bush, Harper is extremely far left!

Yep...it's not like Harper himself said how much he likes the US Conservative movement which Bush is the leader of and everything he's proposed has been approved by the Republician House and Senate in the States. Oh wait...he did...

"[Y]our country [the USA], and particularly your conservative movement, is a light and an inspiration to people in this country and across the world."

Conservative leader Stephen Harper, then vice-president of the National Citizens Coalition, in a June 1997 Montreal meeting of the Council for National Policy, a right-wing American think tank.
http://www.intheirownwords.ca/harper.html


I'm a conservative supporter yet I think Bush is a ****** who should be impeached. This database of his should be dismantled. If Americans want to support such a database, so be it, but to do it behind the nations back is frightening.

That's great (seriously; not trying to be glib) however by supporting the Conservatives just a protest vote for the Liberals gives power to the actions that Bush, and those who admire him like Harper, unleash upon the world.

The Conservatives are only the same in name, nothing more.

The quote above, as well as Harper's actions for years (including appearing on Fox News to bash Canada to Americans) seem to suggest different.

This is an American database run by American government officials. This has nothing to do with Canada or the Conservatives.

Just like how our financial information is known by the US government even when we deal with Canadian banks if that Canadian bank has sub-contracted services to a US company? Just like how if an American calls us our numbers are indexed in this database? Just like how Americans demand the arrest of Marc Emory, a Canadian citizen livng in Canada, and the federal government hops to it?

I just heard Henry Champ on Newsworld state that Canadian numbers are in the database - where's the condemantion from Bush's buddy Harper?

You constantly posting a picture of Bush and Harper shaking hands is just down right pathetic and shows your ignorance.

Again with the personal insults....well I guess I shouldn't expect anything less.

I have shaked hands with federal inmates before, does that mean I'm going to follow in their foot steps and go kill people?

Do you call what they do a "light and inspiration" like what Harper said about the US Conservative movement?

I can guarantee that Paul Martin has shaken Bush's hand before as well. Does that mean Martin wanted to follow in Bush's foot steps?

As I've said a million times before on this site I never liked Martin. He was a bitchboy for the US and Alberta. Even stated that his top goals were to bend over backwards for both of them...until of course he realized he was going down hard and fast and decided to turn against the states for votes.

This says it all about how Martin represented our views to Bush...

http://www.dailyhog.com/images/martin_bush_web.jpg

As for Chretien, the last Liberal leader I liked, well I'm sure there are pics of them shaking hands but he and his associates made it perfectly clear what he thought of them.