preacher curls... how to adjust the height?

[UrbanPoet]

how low is too low
& how high is too high?

I was doing some dumbbell preachers today. SUpposedly preacher curls are suppose to be the excersize that isolates your biceps the fiercest.
I wasnt feeling the burn.
-I kept my arms @ shoulder width
-Typical go up slow, bring down steady with no drop technique
-20lb dumbbells (im only 5'8 140lbs)

3 sets 10 reps

Should i raise the weights or is it really the height of the preacher bench?

[CSR]

Raise the weights if you're not feeling anything, or use the curl bench.

[UrbanPoet]

Raise the weights if you're not feeling anything, or use the curl bench.

id prefer the Preacher Bench. (sometimes refered to as the curl bench) b/c it isolates your biceps alot. I guess i gotta raise the weights.
ill try 25 & 30s next time.

[poedua]

how low is too low
& how high is too high?

I was doing some dumbbell preachers today. SUpposedly preacher curls are suppose to be the excersize that isolates your biceps the fiercest.
I wasnt feeling the burn.
-I kept my arms @ shoulder width
-Typical go up slow, bring down steady with no drop technique
-20lb dumbbells (im only 5'8 140lbs)

3 sets 10 reps

Should i raise the weights or is it really the height of the preacher bench?

I think I'd be more concerned about how you achieve "failure" properly.. Bringing your muscles to "failure" due to ( progresisve ) overload is the best way to maximize growth. That, and even more so in the case of biceps, doing exercises in perfect form. Do that, and you'll get the "burn" you're looking for.

Your goal is to try and reach "failure" in a one set bicep exercise by the 6th to 8th rep ...or 10th rep i( f your comfortable with that. ) So pick a weight that only allows you to do to the 8th or 10th rep ..and no more. And as you're doing ...do 3 sets.

As for which bicep exercises to do. That's your choice - there are tons avaialble - but as I mentioned in an earlier thread, some MRI studies have been done to see which bicep exercises hit the bicep the hardest. In case your interested, it's not the preacher that hit them the hardest , they're.....

- Close-grip barbell curls
- Incline dumbbell curls
- Concentration dumbbell curls

[vrus]

I've always thought concentration curls / regular curls hit the hardest because there is more rotation involved.

Don't pay too much attention to the "burn"; it's a myth to use that as a measure of effectiveness. As poedua said, failure is more important.

I personally do 3x8. Once I stop failing the final reps on the last set, I add a bit of more weight.

[PennyArcade]

I tend to stay away from preacher. Men's health says that the preacher is not the best way to workout your biceps because the motion at the top of the lift is supported by the preacher pad itself.

I like incline's... they always give me a burn.

Another good one is straight barbell curl. Do them slow and don't move your elbows. I can barely do 10. On the last one, count to 5 on the negative.

[poedua]

I tend to stay away from preacher. Men's health says that the preacher is not the best way to workout your biceps because the motion at the top of the lift is supported by the preacher pad itself.

I like incline's... they always give me a burn.

Another good one is straight barbell curl. Do them slow and don't move your elbows. I can barely do 10. On the last one, count to 5 on the negative.

I agree.

Barbell 21's ( curls ) are one of my favs actually...very very slow ...and "dead still" without any torso movement whatsoever...the only thing that moves is your arms

After that routine, I'll move to inclines as well ..and my arms are literally on fire by the end of both routines.

[coomar]

I too prefer the dumbbell curls to preacher

[UrbanPoet]

ill try some seated incline dumbbell curls.
ill go for the 35s

I always think of "10" as the magic number.... so i guess i havent been pushign myself hard enough.

[CSR]

ill try some seated incline dumbbell curls.
ill go for the 35s

I always think of "10" as the magic number.... so i guess i havent been pushign myself hard enough.

Going up 10 is a big increment... Try 5, even 2.5..

[UrbanPoet]

Going up 10 is a big increment... Try 5, even 2.5..

yeah. thats true! 25 pound it is. gonna try this at the gym tomorrow after a god 10 hr sleep and some oatmeal breakfast.

ill tell u guys how it went.

[Mintmaster]

-20lb dumbbells (im only 5'8 140lbs)
Well, I'm 5'9 130lbs, and when using a bar I go up to 95lbs (my arms are pretty small). So I think you could go for more. But as poedua said, target the number of reps to failure, not a specific weight. As you get stronger and do more reps, increase the weight until you get near 8 reps again.

Barbell 21's ( curls ) are one of my favs actually...very very slow ...and "dead still" without any torso movement whatsoever...the only thing that moves is your arms
I always thought 21's weren't the best idea because, well, they're 21 reps. Didn't you say 6-8 reps is best?

I also find it really hard to avoid moving anything doing standing curls. If I'm curling 60-70% of my weight, I'm obviously going to rock back and forth significantly (Newton's 3rd law), so I need to balance myself. Am I doing something wrong or is it simply a matter of being a flyweight?

[z_squared]

Barbell 21's ( curls ) are one of my favs actually...very very slow ...and "dead still" without any torso movement whatsoever...the only thing that moves is your arms


Agree. These make my arms burn faster than anything else out there.

[B40]

Come work out with me, I will show you the proper way to do curls :)

[poedua]

I always thought 21's weren't the best idea because, well, they're 21 reps. Didn't you say 6-8 reps is best?

Correct. Using 6-8 reps is the most efficient way of for most beginners or for those that are trying to be the most time effective in their workouts - especially when their goal is to build muscle mass.

It stems from the principle of intensity - the harder you work the more adaptation / growth your body ( muscle ) is forced into. And as I've mentioned before, if you are doing reps of 6-8 or 10 and they are being easily done with perfect form, the simplest way to increase intensity is to increase weight in order to increase intensity.

In my case, I'm not a beginner, and I've been at this for 20 years and I often workout in my basement ( so I'm not always able to add weight on a regular basis ). Things like 21's are part of what's called, or I'd call, refined intensity "techniques " - like descending sets, pre-exhaustion, forced reps, superslow reps, pure negatives etc. etc. - and intensity techniques are just another different way to force the muscles to adapt and grow.

And, frankly, I recall the OP was looking for a " burn "/ " pump " - I find that many of the intensity techniques I listed are a sure-fire ( excuse the pun ) way to get a burn...and a good way to get a full pump of blood in your muscles as staging set routine for a more traditional follow up set of 6/8 reps.

But, to be very clear, if you want to maximize muscle growth in the least amount of time - intensity and ( progressive ) overload should be your focus -and so should 6/8 reps to failure ( on the 8th rep ). In most cases, reps of 6-8 is the way to go if you want to get big.

[poedua]

I also find it really hard to avoid moving anything. If I'm curling 60-70% of my weight, I'm obviously going to rock back and forth significantly (Newton's 3rd law), so I need to balance myself. Am I doing something wrong or is it simply a matter of being a flyweight?

First of all, your total body weight is irrelevant to how much you lift for any exercise..." If I'm curling 60-70% of my weight "...you don't want to lift a % of your body weight at all -ever. If you stick to the 6-8 reps rule or the 10-12 reps ( if you are comfortable with that ) the weight you lift is the weight that results in failure at the 8th or 12th reps.

If you weight 225lbs. and fail on the 8th rep doing 45 lb curls - that's fine.
If you weight 175lbs. and fail on the 8th rep doing 45 lb curls - that's fine too.
Body weight has nothing to do with it.

Barbell curls . One rule to remember - arms only move. Never have momentum in any exercise ...it's bad form.

Stand in front of a mirror. Legs slightly bent. Arms at your side fully extended down holding a barbell. Slowly begin the curl ....on a count of 2 seconds ( or four seconds ) on the way up and then a count of 2 seconds ( or four seconds ) on the way down. Pick a weight so that you hit failure by the 8th or 10th rep.

Nothing moves, - no momentum ever - your body is frozen .... other than your arms.....

- head / neck doesn't move
- shoulders don't move
- trunk doesn't move
- hips don't move
- legs don't move

[toalan]

a good way to get the burn is standing curls with barbell.

Do the following:

Do 5 reps, of only half motion, that is the inside of your elbow goes from 180 degrees to 90 degrees.

Immediately after,do 5 reps of the other half motion, that is the inside of your elbows goes from 90 degrees to ~0 degrees

Immediately after do 8 more full reps, 180->0 degrees.

That gives a very good burn provided you use the right amount of weight.

Another sure fire way to get a very intense long burn is to do drop sets with no rest using cable machines. I can keep the burn going on for 4 straight sets, it is painful but it will be the most productive minute of your life. I love doing drop sets with cable machines, they are a safe and fast method for muscle exhaustion. Drop sets might not be the best way to get bigger or toned, but to me they are the most efficient use of my time at the gym.

[UrbanPoet]

okie... I raised the weight of my preacher dumbbell curls.
I did 30lbs & failed @ 6 reps
25lbs failed @ 10 reps (seems like a big gap =\ to me)
. I guess i wasnt pushing myself hard enough.

I also tried some incline db curls. those work really well too.. and the method Toalon mentioned.

good advice!
Before iwas only doing
-isolation curls
-standing db curls
-ez bar curls

Just started to work out again 2 weeks ago. So alot of stuff i learned before i forgot.

[Mintmaster]

First of all, your total body weight is irrelevant to how much you lift for any exercise..." If I'm curling 60-70% of my weight "...you don't want to lift a % of your body weight at all -ever.
Nono, you don't understand me. I've always aimed for around 8-10 reps for my exercises.

I'm talking about balance, and the ratio is very relevant here. When doing standing curls, first the bar is directly above the toes. As I bring it up to 90 degrees, it's one foot away. Holding that much weight that far away necessitates my body's center of mass to shift backwards, or I'll fall forwards. It's simple physics, and there's no way around that. Then when the bar comes all the way up, the mass is almost over my toes again, requiring a shift back forwards again. That's 4 weight shifts per rep.

The only thing I can do is place my feet inline, with one ahead of the other. This stance will let me put more weight on my front leg when the bar is far from me and more on the back leg when it's close, essentially changing my effective pivot point on the ground dynamically. Unfortunately, that not only compromises my lateral stability, but it's a bit awkward.

Right now, what I try to do is keep rigid my whole body from elbows to shoulders to legs. I'll teeter at the ankles to create the weight shift necessary. This is still pretty tough though, and I'll often have to take a step to keep from falling.

Of course, with preacher, incline, or concentration curls, there's no issue here. With dumbell curls, moving one at a time halves the weight shift, so it's a non-issue.

[Mintmaster]

a good way to get the burn is standing curls with barbell.

Do the following:
That's essentially what 21's are, except the reps are 7-7-7 instead of 5-5-8. That's what poedua was talking about.

[poedua]

Nono, you don't understand me. I've always aimed for around 8-10 reps for my exercises.

I'm talking about balance, and the ratio is very relevant here. When doing standing curls, first the bar is directly above the toes. As I bring it up to 90 degrees, it's one foot away. Holding that much weight that far away necessitates my body's center of mass to shift backwards, or I'll fall forwards. It's simple physics, and there's no way around that. Then when the bar comes all the way up, the mass is almost over my toes again, requiring a shift back forwards again. That's 4 weight shifts per rep.

The only thing I can do is place my feet inline, with one ahead of the other. This stance will let me put more weight on my front leg when the bar is far from me and more on the back leg when it's close, essentially changing my effective pivot point on the ground dynamically. Unfortunately, that not only compromises my lateral stability, but it's a bit awkward.

Right now, what I try to do is keep rigid my whole body from elbows to shoulders to legs. I'll teeter at the ankles to create the weight shift necessary. This is still pretty tough though, and I'll often have to take a step to keep from falling.

Of course, with preacher, incline, or concentration curls, there's no issue here. With dumbell curls, moving one at a time halves the weight shift, so it's a non-issue.

With proper barbell curls...nothing should be moving but your arms IMO. The only pivot point is at the elbow. The simple lever action of the arm to a failure at the 8th or 10th reps is all that's needed to maximize overload / resistance to the bicep. Indications of teetering or being on the verge of falling or having to adjust your center stance mid way thu an exercise are all signs of less than perfect form IMO.

Nothing else on your body shifts forward or shifts backward at all and center of mass should never change when using proper and " strict " form during a barbell curl.

And any mention of a " ratio " of one's lifting weight in an exercise as somehow being a function of one's overall body weight is utterly meaningless...that's because, the relevance determining weights for lifting are a function of which rep they trigger failure ...nothing else.

One's own overall body weight is irrelevant.

[bdckr]

Nono, you don't understand me. I've always aimed for around 8-10 reps for my exercises.

I'm talking about balance, and the ratio is very relevant here. When doing standing curls, first the bar is directly above the toes. As I bring it up to 90 degrees, it's one foot away. Holding that much weight that far away necessitates my body's center of mass to shift backwards, or I'll fall forwards. It's simple physics, and there's no way around that. Then when the bar comes all the way up, the mass is almost over my toes again, requiring a shift back forwards again. That's 4 weight shifts per rep.

The only thing I can do is place my feet inline, with one ahead of the other. This stance will let me put more weight on my front leg when the bar is far from me and more on the back leg when it's close, essentially changing my effective pivot point on the ground dynamically. Unfortunately, that not only compromises my lateral stability, but it's a bit awkward.

Right now, what I try to do is keep rigid my whole body from elbows to shoulders to legs. I'll teeter at the ankles to create the weight shift necessary. This is still pretty tough though, and I'll often have to take a step to keep from falling.

Of course, with preacher, incline, or concentration curls, there's no issue here. With dumbell curls, moving one at a time halves the weight shift, so it's a non-issue.
That makes a lot of sense, but why the focus on isolation?

If a lower weight is not enough of a challenge, and the higher weight unbalances you, why not do weighted chins?

[Mintmaster]

Okay poedua, you just don't get it.

Imagine if you were inhumanly strong at your weight. Picture holding 200 lbs in your hands with your arms straight out in front of you. It is physically impossible to stand up with your legs and back perfectly perpendicular to the ground. You must be slanted with your feet below your elbows, or you'll tip over. This is simple statics from high-school physics. The moments/torques about a pivot point for a stationary object must sum to zero.

To stand without tipping over in any direction, the aggregate centre of gravity (i.e. the barbell and your own body) must be directly over your foot. Standing without any weight, my centre of gravity is a tad above my hip. The barbell's center of gravity is at the middle of the bar.

If I was strong enough to curl 100% of my weight, the aggregate centre of gravity would be exactly halfway between the bar and my hip. Obviously, this point moves during the curling motion. Hence I must make sure it does not go to a position such that it is no longer above my foot.

[Mintmaster]

That makes a lot of sense, but why the focus on isolation?

If a lower weight is not enough of a challenge, and the higher weight unbalances you, why not do weighted chins?
Oh I do those as well.

Usually on my back/lats day, though, because biceps don't tend to be the weakest link for me in that exercise. Got up to 9 reps with 25lb on the belt, so hopefully I'll manage a full plate before the summer's up.

[nfnx]

I think I'd be more concerned about how you achieve "failure" properly.. Bringing your muscles to "failure" due to ( progresisve ) overload is the best way to maximize growth. That, and even more so in the case of biceps, doing exercises in perfect form. Do that, and you'll get the "burn" you're looking for.

Your goal is to try and reach "failure" in a one set bicep exercise by the 6th to 8th rep ...or 10th rep i( f your comfortable with that. ) So pick a weight that only allows you to do to the 8th or 10th rep ..and no more. And as you're doing ...do 3 sets.

As for which bicep exercises to do. That's your choice - there are tons avaialble - but as I mentioned in an earlier thread, some MRI studies have been done to see which bicep exercises hit the bicep the hardest. In case your interested, it's not the preacher that hit them the hardest , they're.....

- Close-grip barbell curls
- Incline dumbbell curls
- Concentration dumbbell curls


your everywhere on these! good stuff man.


i like the preachers too urban so dont worry.

make sure your chest is up against the padding and it slides right under ur armpits. that is vital to focusing on your biceps. i use the bars and work like this...

i do about 6 - 8 with the 50 pounds, wide grip, then drop the weight
8 - 10 with 40 pounds right after, short grip, then drop again
10 - 12 with 30 pounds right after, straight bar, then thats one set.

second set
6-8 with 60 pounds, short grip,
8 - 10 with 50 pounds, widegrip,
10 - 12 with 40 pounds, straight,

i typically do 2 sets, but if i have the energy ill do one more set. do one of these sets and you will feel the burn i guarentee you.

also make sure you consume protein within 45 minutes of your workout, otherwise the window of oppertunity closes and you lose out on ur workout.



oh wait i forgot to say... even though i like preachers, they are not my number one choice. i actually do split sets between shoulders and biceps at the same time. but the first exercisse i normally do is incline curling, then hammer curls, then the preacher...

[bdckr]

Oh I do those as well.

Usually on my back/lats day, though, because biceps don't tend to be the weakest link for me in that exercise. Got up to 9 reps with 25lb on the belt, so hopefully I'll manage a full plate before the summer's up.
Ever consider getting a weight vest?

Plates hanging from your waist are pretty unstable, so it's harder to train using a fast/explosive concentric phase for power. I think you'd be pleasantly surprised at how having some dynamic/speed training (with some stable weight) can improve the weight that you can move for slow, controlled reps.

[Mintmaster]

Good suggestion, but I'm okay with the belt right now. Squeezing the weight between my legs is usually enough to keep it controlled. I might move to a weight vest when I start doing plyometrics on a regular basis for my legs, but I want a solid strength foundation first.

[d0fuz]

Tell me you ain't just working on the curls :)

[UrbanPoet]

Tell me you ain't just working on the curls :)

I only do swinging bicep curls and bench presses @ the gym.
I then go home and drink 6 raw eggs.



No im just kidding.... Biceps are just 1 day of my 3 day split.
That day is Biceps and Shoulders.