Why I can't stand many Mac users . . .

[milhaus]

Well, many of you will know me as a huge Mac fan, and some might even say fanboy, and I do have to preface this post with the fact that I believe OS X to be a far superior operating system, that Macs are actually competitive in cost with PCs, and generally a much better experience.

However, I can't stand the naivete of a majority of Mac users, who are doing several things that annoy me right now, esp. with the release of Boot Camp. Frequenting a bunch of Mac forums, I run into this all the time:

1) Clinging to the so called superiority of Power PC systems, and bemoaning the switch to Intel as if we just turned to the dark side, like the processor had anything to do with what made a Mac experience

2) Questioning why anybody would want to run Windows XP on a Mac, and saying things like, "I wouldn't let that dirty OS touch my beautiful machine," as if they'd never heard of gaming or specific software made for PCs

3) Seeing using an Intel processor and allowing Windows installs as somehow compromising the security of a Mac; of course, when this move by Apple increases market share and actually results in virus designers atually designing a virus for Macs, they'll blame Intel and Windows

4) Fundamentally not understanding Windows XP, and the minimal intrusiveness of security issues

I love the fact that Windows XP boots and runs beautifully on my Mac; I will probably not use it very often, but regardless, I know I have the option.

That said, I could say the same of PC fanboys, but that's another discussion altogether.

[Paolo]

ahh well, atleast mac and pcs can getalong now. thats wasnt possible before.

[Chrispy]

Well said...

However, when you've been stuck in your ways with no other option out for how many years, can we really expect much more from these folk?

I'm only recently into the Mac side of things for around 3 years now, and I love it, but i'll never completely move away from Windows and the PC.

[deep]

I'm comfortable with my inner Mac fanboy. It's my C64 fanboy that keeps getting me in trouble.

[CoinSaver]

I'm comfortable with my inner Mac fanboy. It's my C64 fanboy that keeps getting me in trouble.
LOL

Milhaus: I am glad to see your preference for the Mac isn't blinding you like those people you've mentioned. I've recently got back into the Mac, but would really appriciate being able to run a couple of programs that aren't on the Mac. Custom VB kinda things.

On a side note, a company called parallels just announced that they are shipping virtualization for the Intel Macs. Basically Virtual PC. check out: http://www.parallels.com/en/products/workstation/mac/

Apple is said to include this in the next version of their OS.

[sleepyguy]

honestly being a fanboy on either side is pretty pathetic... pc/mac is a tool that gets the job done. end of story.

[HowEver]

Given how much time is spent with security issues on the Windows side, I'm wondering if you could expand on "minimal security issues"?

I'd love to have the time back I've spent cleaning viruses and spyware off my relatives' and friends' XP computers.

The only comparable thing I've had to do on a Mac was figure out how to get Norton off of it when I upgraded to OSX 10.4, since it was incompatible and hasn't been fixed since (Norton was a free install where I study). And it never, ever found anything *except* when I saved an attachment from an email from a Windows user--which wouldn't have infected the Mac anyways.

[roastpuff]

Given how much time is spent with security issues on the Windows side, I'm wondering if you could expand on "minimal security issues"?

I'd love to have the time back I've spent cleaning viruses and spyware off my relatives' and friends' XP computers.

The only comparable thing I've had to do on a Mac was figure out how to get Norton off of it when I upgraded to OSX 10.4, since it was incompatible and hasn't been fixed since (Norton was a free install where I study). And it never, ever found anything *except* when I saved an attachment from an email from a Windows user--which wouldn't have infected the Mac anyways.

Same experience I had. I got a Mac so that I wouldn't need to fix my own computer, so then I could enjoy hassle-free computing. The IT calls are getting annoying after 5 years or so. I don't whine about the switch, or cling to the "superiority" of PPC systems. In fact, I have one of the first Intel Core Duo's in Vancouver, since I ordered the day it came out.

And XP doesn't have "minimal" security issues. It has plenty.

[milhaus]

Here we go again . . . Install all updates (there's security updates for Mac OS X as well). Install an anti-virus and its auto updates (not necessary on macs). Use Microsoft's anti spyware (also not necessary on macs). Finally, don't be an idiot (well, you can be an idiot on a mac, and still not get spyware or adware - I guess that's an advantage, but I'd rather just not be stupid).

There you go; all virus and security issues for Windows XP are now "minimal." Those steps seem to me to also be "minimal," but perhaps the "don't be an idiot" part is difficult for some.

And I've never said that Windows security is better than on a Mac, only that dealing with security issues is pretty simple and straightforward.

[hagbard]

They all suck in their own way.

[Happy13178]

Lets be honest here...if people used Macs as much as they use PCs now, there'd be just as many problems with Mac viruses, spam, etc. There are more for PCs now because more people screw around with them and try to hack them.

[yatko]

Millhaus, when you are runnig XP, do have any driver issues? Like the camera, LAN, BT etc with your MacBook Pro?

[Ziggy007]

I don't like the elitist attitude of Mac users like they are far superior to all other computer users...

[yjxiao]

Well Said!

honestly being a fanboy on either side is pretty pathetic... pc/mac is a tool that gets the job done. end of story.


I've got a powerbook and my desktop is an amd64. They both serve me extremely well. I appreciate the power of my desktop and the simplicity and peace of mind of my powerbook.

Bashing either or is just plain stupid. They both serve their purpose. Now that you can go dual boot on a mac, that is gonna be awesome. Good decision on apple's part.

[Headhunter]

Our niche interests tend to bring out the evangelist in all of us, whatever they may be.

That said, I think we're giving too much attention to a vocal minority. I don't know which is more overblown, the "Mac users are superior" noise or "blogs are genuine news"...

[ethansmith]

I don't like the elitist attitude of Mac users like they are far superior to all other computer users...While I have nothing against Macs I agree with that. I've heard so much poo from Mac users over the years that I now almost believe that pressing the Flower Key will read your thoughts.

Got a Mac?
Want to write an essay? Just press the Flower Key!

Want to surf the web? Just press the Flower Key!

Want to organize your address book? Just press the Flower Key!

Want to write the next Harry Potter book? Just press the Flower Key!

Again, I honestly have nothing against Macs though. So if you have one, does't bother me. I know people who have them. I know they are great for publishing. Whatever gets the job done. :) But I haven't touched a Mac in years. I have no interest.

I use to hate Macs more (like fanboy of PC'ish) before as when I was in High School, it was Macs for the Handicapped kids and PC's for the regular kids.

Then one day I walked past the classroom where they taught them and one was sitting by his Mac and started screeming a gut renching screem and bobbing up and down while clapping. I saw a teacher run over to this kids assistant and say, "What happened?" to which the reply was something to the effect of "He pushed the flower key and now we can't get the thing to boot up again".

I was scared.

--Ethan

[supernerd]

I don't like the elitist attitude of Mac users like they are far superior to all other computer users...

To be fair, you see this from Linux and Windows users as well (although to a much lower extent from windows users). I try not to care anymore. If someone is ignorant enough to think that "their" operating system is "superior" in every single way, then really, its their problem, not yours.

I have finally realized that stupid people are too stupid to realize they're stupid and so will likely remain stupid; and arguing with the stupid will likely only make you more stupid.

[jm20]

Video (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5368973491205006543&q=genre%3Aad_promo+apple&pl=true)

Unleash the power ? Love the commercial, but I'm fine with my A64 X2 @ 2.5ghz
:)

[siriuskao]

Well, many of you will know me as a huge Mac fan, and some might even say fanboy, and I do have to preface this post with the fact that I believe OS X to be a far superior operating system, that Macs are actually competitive in cost with PCs, and generally a much better experience.

However, I can't stand the naivete of a majority of Mac users, who are doing several things that annoy me right now, esp. with the release of Boot Camp. Frequenting a bunch of Mac forums, I run into this all the time:

1) Clinging to the so called superiority of Power PC systems, and bemoaning the switch to Intel as if we just turned to the dark side, like the processor had anything to do with what made a Mac experience

2) Questioning why anybody would want to run Windows XP on a Mac, and saying things like, "I wouldn't let that dirty OS touch my beautiful machine," as if they'd never heard of gaming or specific software made for PCs

3) Seeing using an Intel processor and allowing Windows installs as somehow compromising the security of a Mac; of course, when this move by Apple increases market share and actually results in virus designers atually designing a virus for Macs, they'll blame Intel and Windows

4) Fundamentally not understanding Windows XP, and the minimal intrusiveness of security issues

I love the fact that Windows XP boots and runs beautifully on my Mac; I will probably not use it very often, but regardless, I know I have the option.

That said, I could say the same of PC fanboys, but that's another discussion altogether.

just ignore those zealots. Pretty much every piece of technology has it's own group of zealots (linux, windows, osx, programming language, framework...you name it)

[FastFokker]

A computer is a computer.

Mac's don't hold much of the market.. so why are you crying about their users?

[ynchu]

Same experience I had. I got a Mac so that I wouldn't need to fix my own computer, so then I could enjoy hassle-free computing. The IT calls are getting annoying after 5 years or so. I don't whine about the switch, or cling to the "superiority" of PPC systems. In fact, I have one of the first Intel Core Duo's in Vancouver, since I ordered the day it came out.

And XP doesn't have "minimal" security issues. It has plenty.

I hate to say this, but honestly there is nothing wrong with Microsoft Windows series.

All the security issues are due to the lack of careness from users. Just do windowsupdate constantly, get an anti-virus installed, and there, I have a machine that hadn't been reinstalled for almost 4 years. Same goes to Windows 2000.

Mac, now just imagine, if they own over 70% of the market shares - imagine how many people who try to attack the platform.

Also, there is nothing wrong with Mactel with Windows installed. Like Donald Trump said, some people like apples, some people like oranges, that's why there is the manual for everyone. It is nice that Apple is willing to open up their platform and give users more choices. Don't you think it is a smart move? Perhaps they're betting on that the users will finally hate Windows so much, that they delete the partition and keep Apple OS only.

[FastFokker]

I hate to say this, but honestly there is nothing wrong with Microsoft Windows series.Most people would disagree with that, even me.. a long time Windows supporter.

The only thing I actually like about Windows is the support.. endless other users and endless software. That and historically, the price of mac systems was unreasonably higher.

Otherwise I'd switch to a Mac.. but Mac is done, at least for computers. They'll still have their fancy electronic gadgets, and a niche market of something, but they aren't profiting from systems.. at least from what I hear from a Mac owner.

Probably everyone knows, but Apple just released some kind of patch that allows you to run Windows on their systems. It's the next step towards extinction of the Mac brand.

[roastpuff]

Here we go again . . . Install all updates (there's security updates for Mac OS X as well). Install an anti-virus and its auto updates (not necessary on macs). Use Microsoft's anti spyware (also not necessary on macs). Finally, don't be an idiot (well, you can be an idiot on a mac, and still not get spyware or adware - I guess that's an advantage, but I'd rather just not be stupid).

There you go; all virus and security issues for Windows XP are now "minimal." Those steps seem to me to also be "minimal," but perhaps the "don't be an idiot" part is difficult for some.

And I've never said that Windows security is better than on a Mac, only that dealing with security issues is pretty simple and straightforward.

Most people have trouble doing this on Windows; that's what gets them finally, and this means that we power users go out on tech support calls a lot, especially for the parental units. (Because that's my funding)

I just find that OS X minimizes or skips those steps outlined completely, and is easier to maintain because it doesn't have (many) driver issues, if any. Certainly made my life a lot easier once I got my dad switched on it. He still can't figure out the basics of even changing the signature in Mail, but I have to deal with less viruses/spyware. :)

[Aero]

Mac users are OK, they love their machines BUT there are some excetions. The fanatics... the fanboys... those are the people I hate. These people exist not only in mac users but others as well, windows users, ps2,xbox,nintendo,etc... They blast out things that are 50%-100% wrong. There's one thing in their mind, their product of choice (it can be pc,mac,ps2,xbox,ds,etc...) has no fault, its perfect and the competition is pure crap. Atlest some fans acknowledge some faults and the advantage of the other platform. If you even ask how to fix a certain problem or defect, the fanboys will attack you, its like your taking their first born child. :cheesygri

[FastFokker]

Since PC's dominate the market, it stands to reason there are more PC fanboys than Mac fanboys.

[CodecX81]

Down with fanboyism!

However, Mac users are typically easier to sucker money out of. Therefore they are an IT pro's wetdream.

[xwar]

Down with fanboyism!

However, Mac users are typically easier to sucker money out of. Therefore they are an IT pro's wetdream.

Agreed, boy did I and my ex-boss rip off mac suckers.

Ram upgrades were our company's biggest money makers ...

Apple marks up ordinary ram upgrades like crazy on their website, we just took 50 bucks off that price and make crazy profit

[FastFokker]

Agreed, boy did I and my ex-boss rip off mac suckers.

Ram upgrades were our company's biggest money makers ...

Apple marks up ordinary ram upgrades like crazy on their website, we just took 50 bucks off that price and make crazy profitOld people are good to sucker out of cash.. they don't know what things cost and will just pay whatever.

Doesn't make it right though.. why would you even brag about such a thing? :confused:

[milhaus]

Well, this thread has unfortunately only helped convince me that the only rational people worth talking to about this kind of stuff are those who use both operating systems on a daily basis, and that's not many of the posters here, and even fewer on the Mac specific forums. I guess I've had my opportunity to rant, and that's sufficient...

However, silly comments like Fast Fokkers' above that allowing Windows XP to run on Mac hardware is the end of the Mac computers are exactly the kind of uninformed statement I would expect from those who haven't used the system before; in fact, most analysts, John C. Dickhead aside, see the opposite.

The person who selects Windows XP over OS X when they have a no cost choice, i.e. in a MacBook, for their everyday computing - is either a totally closed minded lifelong PC user or a power user with specific needs. I've got Windows XP installed on my MacBook - it takes up 12 gigs of space for the apps and that's it. Once I get everything running and perfectly set up, it'll be relegated to an afterthought, and booted up only when needed.

And for those comments about Mac users being ignorant or easy to rip off, have you been in a local future shop, or visited Dell's website? I'd hardly call Dell's RAM upgrade pricing fair (unless they offer a free upgrade), and I see PC users getting it up the a%# daily from salespeople at FS. The people on this forum are hardly representative of most PC users - and frankly, most computer users are idiots. See above comment about why Windows should actually be considered to be secure.

Long live OS X, long live Windows XP, uh . . . I mean Longhorn . . . Uh, I mean Vista Home, Basic, uh, or is it Silver, Gold, Platinum . . . whatever!

[IronMac]

but they aren't profiting from systems.. at least from what I hear from a Mac owner.


Take it from a guy who not only owns Macs and AAPL stock but actually does read the SEC documents from time to time, systems is where they get their profits from. All that other stuff...music store and iPods bring in revenues but not a lot of profit.

[IronMac]

However, Mac users are typically easier to sucker money out of. Therefore they are an IT pro's wetdream.

Better read roastpuff's post again. :lol:

[IronMac]

However, silly comments like Fast Fokkers' above that allowing Windows XP to run on Mac hardware is the end of the Mac computers are exactly the kind of uninformed statement I would expect from those who haven't used the system before; in fact, most analysts, John C. Dickhead aside, see the opposite.


Hrmm...I think that allowing WinXP on Mac hardware can be a potentially huge threat to the Mac platform itself.

[HowEver]

Just thought I'd bring Romulus and Remus together to Rome.

http://www.ehmac.ca/showthread.php?t=39224

[rabbit]

The fanatics... the fanboys... those are the people I hate.

Yep, people don't hate Macs, they just hate the fanboys.

I have a good friend who is a fanboy. It is okay for him to criticize something Apple does wrong but when someone else does it, he will make any kind of excuse to spin it.

Another pal isn't so much a fanboy but has to use Windows at work and is just clueless to Windows, so he keeps saying how it sucks, etc, when the problem is himself.


and frankly, most computer users are idiots.

Isn't that the truth :D.

[kev*]

systems is where they get their profits from. All that other stuff...music store and iPods bring in revenues but not a lot of profit.

That's funny I heard it was the exact opposite. When they were building with the PPC their profit margin was only about $100-150 per system. I also heard that the Intel chips are more expensive than the PPC cpu's so their profit margin would be slimmer. I don't think Apple would be where they are today without the Ipod.

[d_jedi]

Now, if Apple would only release their MacOS for PCs, I'd be happy.
Like it or not, Macs are still more expensive than comperably equipped PCs. This may not be an entirely fair comparison, but:

I can build a desktop cheaper
Dell laptops (or any other manufacturer, other than IBM, pretty much..) are cheaper than Apple's


Now, this isn't an apples-to-apples comparison (pun intended), but the fact that you can't build your own Mac is a significant downside (both for price, and configurability)..

And for laptops, sure.. there are other things to consider, such as durability.. but your dollar seems to go a lot farther with Dell than Apple (I can't seem to find two systems with identical specs - Dell is actually pissing me off right now.. they only have GFX 7800's in their XPSes, but only have dual-core in 6400 and 9400)...

[milhaus]

Hrmm...I think that allowing WinXP on Mac hardware can be a potentially huge threat to the Mac platform itself.
If OS X dies, it will be because the public decides that it is an inferior OS. If that happens, I will actually eat my shorts.

[roastpuff]

Better read roastpuff's post again. :lol:

Huh? Which part of my post?

[IronMac]

That's funny I heard it was the exact opposite. When they were building with the PPC their profit margin was only about $100-150 per system. I also heard that the Intel chips are more expensive than the PPC cpu's so their profit margin would be slimmer.

Those numbers are absolutely and could not possibly be more incorrect. The profit margin on their systems, depending on which one, ranges anywhere from 20 to 29 percent! Think about that when you look at a professional tower model that costs over 3 grand.

The Intel chips are more expensive but I don't know if that will affect their profit margin or not. I would say no because, in the case of the new Intel Mac mini, they've actually raised the price so, percentagewise, the profit margin will probably be the same.

[IronMac]

Huh? Which part of my post?

Oh..he was talking about how easy it was to scam customers and your post highlighted the exact opposite. :)

[The_Duke_Of_Eli]

I can't stand mac users because they always think they're the best and that nothing can top their mac pc. They're so arrogant. Well so are pc users; well...some of them.

[poppa]

This reminds me of the "fanboyism" between some people in this country towards the metropolitans (often Toronto).

[siriuskao]

Hrmm...I think that allowing WinXP on Mac hardware can be a potentially huge threat to the Mac platform itself.
not really, most people buy mac because they like OS X or they are unix geeks who can't stand inferior *nix desktops enviorments.

[milhaus]

More moronic behavior from the mac heads:
http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2006/4/8/3526