LF: best high payback dividends credit card

[royaljelly]

Looking for the highest paying dividends credit card available in Canada. I don't want the ones that give out points or air miles, just cash.

Right now I'm using the CIBC platinum dividend VISA, which gives up to 2% based on my spendings (mainly from RFD deals!). :lol:

[kmar]

I use the Scotia Moneybank which earns UP to 1%. There is no annual fee, like the CIBC one.

[PC-stuff]

Unless you are a big spender, look for a no fee card.

Good idea to dump the CIBC card.
It is costing you $79 in cash each year.
You have spend at least $1000 a month just to break even.

RFD has great article on no fee reward cards.

[st7860]

Capital one's 1% card has NO annual fee and no tiered bull exhaust like CIBC's dividend series. simply 1% on everything you buy.

however, cash rebate cards usually give you the least amount of benefit.

for example, if you spend $100,000 over 5 years on a cash card, you might get $1,000 cash. but if you spend $100,000 over 5 years on an aerogold or avion card, you will get a ticket to anywhere in the world, which is worth MORE than $1,000.

[yjxiao]

for example, if you spend $100,000 over 5 years on a cash card, you might get $1,000 cash. but if you spend $100,000 over 5 years on an aerogold or avion card, you will get a ticket to anywhere in the world, which is worth MORE than $1,000.

Yes, but that aerogold or avion costs $120 a year, versus the Enrich from Citi with 1% cash back with no annual fee.

Anyways, the best cashback cards in my opinion are the following:

National Bank of Canada's Ultramar M/C (http://www.nbc.ca/bnc/cda/productfamily/0,1010,divId-3_langId-1_navCode-13837_navCodeExTh-4200,00.html) : This gives 1.25% on ALL your purchases provided you spend more than 6K a year.

Citibank Enrich Platinum (http://www.citibank.com/canada/cards/english/overview_enr.htm) : The link is for the regular enrich, the platinum card is available upon request to those who have a 5K or higher limit. This card give 1% back on all your purchases. Comes with extensive platinum benefits such as price protection, extended warantee and rental car insurance.

Captial One 1% Cashback Platinum (http://www.capitalone.ca/canada/cards/crplatinum.php?linkid=CAN_Z_CCR_Z_CCR1_C1_03_G_CCR CRP) : This gives you 1% back on All your purchases. However Capitalone Has been know for some serious scandals in its operations in the States. And there are restrictions on what you can do with your card. Capital One has chosen to report balances instead of limits on credit reports. They do not give credit limit increases at consumers requests, they only give them on proactive reviews of accounts. Capital One is probably one of the most conservative credit companies on credit limit increases. Usually the reason for not giving a credit limit increase is that they do not want to put the consumer more into debt than what they might already be in. As well, Capital One disallows the usage of their Credit Cards for deposits into online gaming sites. Many see this as yet another debt prevention tool, however others see it as a restriction of freedom.

MBNA Premier Rewards (https://www.applyonlinenow.com/canada/babjbhdz) : This card is also 1% cash back. There is a $29 dollar annual fee, but rumour is that if you already have an MBNA Credit card, they will waive the fee for you if you transfer to this one. However, according to many people, you get spammed for the rest of your life once you sign up for an MBNA credit card.


In the end I think that the Citi Enrich Platinum or the NBC Ultramar are your best bets. The Citi offers greater benefits, and the Ultramar offers better rewards if you spend over 6K.

Coincidentally, anyone notice how all these cards are all Mastercards? ;)

[st7860]

Yes, but that aerogold or avion costs $120 a year, versus the Enrich from Citi with 1% cash back with no annual fee.

Yes, so if you don't spend that much per year, then the CITI might be better when you factor in the lack of $120 annual fee.

I was just saying that on a pure dollar for dollar basis(not calculating annual fees), for example, $70,000 on a citi will get you $700, but $70,000 on an aerogold will get you to most places in Europe or Asia, but not the middle east.

[Prospero]

I was just saying that on a pure dollar for dollar basis(not calculating annual fees), for example, $70,000 on a citi will get you $700, but $70,000 on an aerogold will get you to most places in Europe or Asia, but not the middle east.

When you're dealing with points or miles you have to take redemption into consideration. A cashback card ALWAYS gives you a reward. With Aeroplan you are at the mercy of airline availability for that reward. For example, I accumulated over 300,000 Aeroplan miles flying AC and using an Aerogold as my primary card a few years back, but have never been able to cash those points in. Whenever I try, I get told there are no Executive First seats available for reward redemption, nor are there any ecomomy seats available. The result? A bunch of useless rewards. Which is why i switched to a purely cashback card which always, consistently and without fail delivers my reward without having to deal with the redemption side of the equation. I find a lot of advice being given about miles and points foolish. You have to consider REDEMPTION not just accumulation. Your points/miles are really only as useful as the redeemer wants them to be, not as what you want them to be. Cash is always better, and anyone who thinks otherwise is making the airlines and the banks very happy and rich. There are one or two exceptions, like PC Points whose redemption value is virtually as good as cash. But airline miles are the absolute worst rewards in terms of redemption, and thus the worst rewards to accumulate, with Aeroplan being one mof the worst of the worst. On paper they seem great, but in practice the consumer will always lose out with them in the long term.

[st7860]

http://infoaeroplan.com/en/mediacentre/news/news26.php


"New Avenue Rewards offer access to 2 million additional seats each year.
Blackout periods eliminated entirely.
Aeroplan members can now access 15% of Air Canada's capacity on every route every month. "

[theinfamous]

Citibank Enrich Platinum (http://www.citibank.com/canada/cards/english/overview_enr.htm) : The link is for the regular enrich, the platinum card is available upon request to those who have a 5K or higher limit. This card give 1% back on all your purchases. Comes with extensive platinum benefits such as price protection, extended warantee and rental car insurance.



Anyone know what the benefits of having the Platinum Enrich MC vs the regular enrich MC are? I looked on the Citi site and could only find the regular MC benefits. Also If I apply to upgrade my regular Enrich to the Platinum MC, will there be a hit on my credit report?


Thanks!

[PC-stuff]

When you're dealing with points or miles you have to take redemption into consideration. A cashback card ALWAYS gives you a reward. With Aeroplan you are at the mercy of airline availability for that reward. For example, I accumulated over 300,000 Aeroplan miles flying AC and using an Aerogold as my primary card a few years back, but have never been able to cash those points in. Whenever I try, I get told there are no Executive First seats available for reward redemption, nor are there any ecomomy seats available. The result? A bunch of useless rewards. Which is why i switched to a purely cashback card which always, consistently and without fail delivers my reward without having to deal with the redemption side of the equation. I find a lot of advice being given about miles and points foolish. You have to consider REDEMPTION not just accumulation. Your points/miles are really only as useful as the redeemer wants them to be, not as what you want them to be. Cash is always better, and anyone who thinks otherwise is making the airlines and the banks very happy and rich. There are one or two exceptions, like PC Points whose redemption value is virtually as good as cash. But airline miles are the absolute worst rewards in terms of redemption, and thus the worst rewards to accumulate, with Aeroplan being one mof the worst of the worst. On paper they seem great, but in practice the consumer will always lose out with them in the long term.


HI:
What kind of flights are you trying for?
Do you try to book well in advance?
Do you call Aeroplan to see if they can get seats on another partner airline?
Cost $15 or so, but at least you do get to use your points.

I find it is generally quite easy to get the flights one wants,
if you book early enough and triangle and open jaw routings are great since they do not take any more points.

[gman]

Do you know how much you would spend on CC in a year? If you do, you can use this (http://www3.telus.net/CalgaryBen/) to figure what is best for you.

[Prospero]

http://infoaeroplan.com/en/mediacentre/news/news26.php

"New Avenue Rewards offer access to 2 million additional seats each year.
Blackout periods eliminated entirely.
Aeroplan members can now access 15% of Air Canada's capacity on every route every month. "

That's a corporate press release from 2004!

Here's a review of the programme from March 2005 from webflyer.com (http://www.webflyer.com/programs/ratings_and_reviews/program.php?key=AC01). This review is from March 2005, fully a year after that Aeroplan press relase. Pay particular attention to the "Minus Features".

Go here (http://flyertalk.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=375) to the flyertalk.com forum to see whatactual frequent flyers (like myself) think about Aeroplan.

Or here (http://frequentflier.com/survey/MasterSurvey.cgi?display=awards) to view the poll results from frequentflier.com. Scroll down to see how Aeroplan is ranked in terms of redemption.

And I still stand by my own personal experience, and those of my colleagues and co-workers. Air Canada's redemption rates are terrible, no matter what Air Canada's corporate propaganda claims. If you insist on sticking with an airline's frequent flyer programme as your reward of choice, both American Airlines AAdvantage and Cathay Pacific's Asia Miles are much better at getting you free flights and upgrades. You can get credit cards for both those programmes from RBC.

[yjxiao]

The benefits are the same as a regular citi platinum credit card. So check that one for them.

I'm pretty sure that if u already have a card with a 5k limit with citi, switching to another one wont require a credit check.

Anyone know what the benefits of having the Platinum Enrich MC vs the regular enrich MC are? I looked on the Citi site and could only find the regular MC benefits. Also If I apply to upgrade my regular Enrich to the Platinum MC, will there be a hit on my credit report?


Thanks!

[joflynn]

When you're dealing with points or miles you have to take redemption into consideration. A cashback card ALWAYS gives you a reward. With Aeroplan you are at the mercy of airline availability for that reward. For example, I accumulated over 300,000 Aeroplan miles flying AC and using an Aerogold as my primary card a few years back, but have never been able to cash those points in. Whenever I try, I get told there are no Executive First seats available for reward redemption, nor are there any ecomomy seats available. The result? A bunch of useless rewards. Which is why i switched to a purely cashback card which always, consistently and without fail delivers my reward without having to deal with the redemption side of the equation. I find a lot of advice being given about miles and points foolish. You have to consider REDEMPTION not just accumulation. Your points/miles are really only as useful as the redeemer wants them to be, not as what you want them to be. Cash is always better, and anyone who thinks otherwise is making the airlines and the banks very happy and rich. There are one or two exceptions, like PC Points whose redemption value is virtually as good as cash. But airline miles are the absolute worst rewards in terms of redemption, and thus the worst rewards to accumulate, with Aeroplan being one mof the worst of the worst. On paper they seem great, but in practice the consumer will always lose out with them in the long term.

I agree absolutely. Cash back credit cards can be the best. And with the new Cashback Card from CT Mastercard, its a no brainer for those spending at least $1500/month - 3% cash back!
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=238544&page=1&pp=40&highlight=mastercard

[BadDrafter]

Captial One 1% Cashback Platinum (http://www.capitalone.ca/canada/cards/crplatinum.php?linkid=CAN_Z_CCR_Z_CCR1_C1_03_G_CCR CRP) : This gives you 1% back on All your purchases. However Capitalone Has been know for some serious scandals in its operations in the States. And there are restrictions on what you can do with your card.


Thanks for making me feel better about my Citi enrich, even if it is only a $250 maximum limit. That card became availabe a few months after I got my Citi mastercard.

[charliebrown]

HI:
What kind of flights are you trying for?
Do you try to book well in advance?
Do you call Aeroplan to see if they can get seats on another partner airline?
Cost $15 or so, but at least you do get to use your points.

I find it is generally quite easy to get the flights one wants,
if you book early enough and triangle and open jaw routings are great since they do not take any more points.

Agreed, i think the key consideration is advanced booking
i've booked 2 flights to asia & 1 to europe 3 months in advance; i noticed that the flight selection is broader if you call aeroplan centre (they got me on a direct flight to HK on a specific date even though it wasnt avaiable online for an extra $15 fee)

Personally, if your company allows it, definitely go for the aerogold to use for reimbursable purchases...companies frown on cashback in your pocket, but will allow you to collect pts on company purchases

[st7860]

I agree absolutely. Cash back credit cards can be the best.


I agree absolutely. Cash back credit cards are the best, for people who do not fly.

If you do fly occasionally though, imagine spending $70,000 over several years and getting..... $700 rebate on your credit card. WOW. Where can you fly with that? Canada, and maybe the US if you're lucky. Or, spend $70,000 on an RBC Avion or CIBC Aerogold, and you'll get a ticket to places in Europe and Asia, worth nearly $1,000.

[gman]

I agree absolutely. Cash back credit cards are the best, for people who do not fly.

If you do fly occasionally though, imagine spending $70,000 over several years and getting..... $700 rebate on your credit card. WOW. Where can you fly with that? Canada, and maybe the US if you're lucky. Or, spend $70,000 on an RBC Avion or CIBC Aerogold, and you'll get a ticket to places in Europe and Asia, worth nearly $1,000.

How much annual fee would you pay in that 'serveral' years?

[Prospero]

I spend 80-90% of my year flying for work. My company used to let me use an Aerogold, which is how I ended up with all my points, but in the end it was just not worth it. I dumped Aerogold, and my company let me take out an Amex Platinum charge card. I'm earning Membership Rewards points at 1.5/$, and cashing them in at $100/10k for vaction bookings. But even then, it is not worth the $400 annual fee I have to pay. And I spend $20k-$50k in a month on this a card, most of it on plane tickets, hotels and other work-related expenses.

In the end, I find it to be much, much more cost efficient to fly (for work and on vacation) on the airline that gives me the better price and better connections rather than getting locked in with one airline or alliance. To Europe I usually fly on KLM because their business class is half the price of Air Canada's. To Asia, I fly on Cathay Pacific because it usually has the best prices and certainly the best business class cabin of any airline. To the US, I fly whatever is cheapest at the time, be it AA, Air Canada, USAir or Continental. I did the math prior to dumping my Aerogold, and it was costing me (and the company) more money to fly Air Canada and Star Alliance exclusively, even with the so-called promise of free tickets down the line, than to fly on an airline based on the price of the ticket. I still collect Aeroplan points, and Asia Miles and Flying Blue Miles, etc, but i do so for Elite-level status, not for the miles.

Frequent flyer miles are an excellent way for the airline to get your money. There is a reason why these programmes are the most profitable part of any airline. There is a reason why when Air Canada was in bankruptcy protection Aeroplan was still generating a huge profit. There is a reason why everyone from Zellers to Sears to PetroCanada to Loblaws to your corner store offers "rewards". It is because they know you will spend their money with them even when their competitor is offering a better price. In the long term, the consumer loses.

It boils down to this: the banks and the airlines are in business to make as much money as they can without breaking the law. Period. Whether it be cashback cards or frequent flyer miles or any other "reward" the ultimate loser is the consumer. Airlines and banks would not be operating these programmes if it was not making them more money than it costs them to perate. How do they make money? By you paying your annual fees on an Aerogold card. By you opting to fly Air Canada in order to collect points when a West Jet flight might be $100 cheaper. If you're going to use a card, you may as well try to get something back out of it, sure. Frequent flyer miles are just not the best reward out there. Once you factor in your annual fee, the amount of spending you need to undertake before you have enough miles to book a "free" ticket, the amount of money you lost in the past by not flying on a competitor airline who was having a seat sale, the amount of money you still need to pay to book that reward ticket, you are probably only getting back about a 1% return. That's why airlines value their miles at $0.02 each. That's a 2% return on paper, but after the annual fee and everything else I mentioned it only works out to about 1%, which is the same return as a standard cashback card.

I'd rather have the cash from a cashback card (which is why when TD offered me their Gold Elite at no-fee, I took it and use it for all my personal spending) and fly on my own terms and save myself the hassle of having to bother with trying to redeem miles. Before dumping the Aerogold, I did the math on whether or not to keep it. No matter how hard I tried to justify it to myself, it just did not make any sense to keep it.

If you pay your balance off in full every month, there is no question that the best reward (if you are willing to be suckered in by the banks) is a no-fee cashback card that gets you at least 1%. The operative words are "pay balance in full" and "no-fee". Any card you pay a fee for is not a reward card, and that includes Aerogold.

[st7860]

If you pay your balance off in full every month, there is no question that the best reward (if you are willing to be suckered in by the banks) is a no-fee cashback card that gets you at least 1%. The operative words are "pay balance in full" and "no-fee"..


If you pay your balance off in full every month, there is no question that the best reward is a CIBC Aerogold or RBC Avion Card. If you do not pay your balance off every month, then there is a Higher fee aerogold at $180 instead of $120 that has only 11% vs 19.5% of the regular aerogold.


Westjet.com Toronto to Hawaii $1197
depart toronto oct 6 return oct 29
Spending required with a cash rebate card: $120,000
Spending required with a CIBC Aerogold: $40,000

Westjet.com Toronto to Las Vegas $663
depart toronto oct 6 return oct 29
Spending required with a cash rebate card: $66,000
Spending required with a CIBC Aerogold: $25,000

aircanada.ca toronto to beijing $1250
depart toronto oct 6 return oct 29
spending required with a cash rebate card: $125,000
spending required with a CIBC Aerogold: $75,000

[yjxiao]

I think the point people are trying to make is that with airline points cards, you have to pay an annual fee(money out of your pocket) and when you fly, you have to pay more surcharges (More money out of your pocket), and the fact that travelling costs more money.

Most people prefer the simplicity and the FLEXIBILITY of just getting cold hard cash in their pockets for no annual fee and no strings. Wheras with airline cards, you end up having to spend more money just to redeem your "free" rewards.

For most of us, the cash rewards are the best. If you travel frequently, then consider a frequent flyers card. I would recommend something that doesn't tie you to an airline, say american express. One advantage of the AMEX Platinum card (not aeroplan) even with its 399 a year fee, are the complimentary companion tickets, which gives you a free ticket if you buy a full fare buisness class ticket. Which is worth it. However, this card is probably for the rich who travel frequently, and I doubt that fits the demographics here.

[st7860]

I think the point people are trying to make is that with airline points cards, you have to pay an annual fee(money out of your pocket) and when you fly, you have to pay more surcharges (More money out of your pocket), and the fact that travelling costs more money.

.

I think the point people are trying to make is that with airline points cards, you don't always have to pay an annual fee(no money out of your pocket). for example, the Bank of Montreal offers one with no annual fee, and the fact that its far cheaper to buy travelling with points based on spending on a credit card rather than buying it with 'cash' from a dividend card.

[anon]

What do you guys think about this alaskaair visa?
http://www.bankofamerica.com/creditcards/index.cfm?template=cc_alaskacanada_plat&orig=
Anybody using this card?
I think the $50 companion ticket itself will pay for the annual fee.

[charger]

I can't believe no one has mentions the Canadian Tire 3% cashback card. I am getting it, and it seems like a pretty hot deal.

[gman]

I can't believe no one has mentions the Canadian Tire 3% cashback card. I am getting it, and it seems like a pretty hot deal.

What do you mean no one? Did you read all the post in this thread?

[Tiberius]

Depending on how much gas you put in your car each month, the Canadian Tire Gas Advantage Mastercard might be the best "cash" return you can get.

You just have to put $1000 on it each month to get 10c/L off of gas. That adds up FAST and can save you much higher than 2% in cash savings - immediately at the gas pump.

If your family uses over 200 Litres of gas in a month - that's $20 in savings. (you can get multiple cards on the same account/balance)

Also, you can use another divident/reward card for purchases once you reach the $1000 level each month... so you could still earn additional rewards if you spend more than $1000 per month by managing the cards usage.

[charliebrown]

There's also the starwood preferred guest/MBNA mastercard -- no fee

1 pt per $2
can use pts for stays at sheraton/westin/W/etc

best part is the signup bonus (5000 pts), and when you charge a stay (5000pts) and bonus pts when you spend over $10000

depending on how they enforce transfers, 1 pt = 1 aeroplan mile

http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109546

signup here: http://spg.com/mbna

[jerryhung]

If you can get any good rewards CC for free, get them
e.g. Aeroplan (CIBC or AMEX), RBC Avion, TD Gold Elite/Travel, etc...

I have TD Gold Elite AND TD Gold Travel, both no fee (well, I know people will say I lose out the interest on Select Service, but it's worth it for me). Hoping to redeem my 15000 signup bonus points (=$225) soon