closing cost of the purchased house

[faizalm]

officially closing cost for me is $6k without sec.deposit for 190K house...
is it sound normal?
need your advice before i get a cert.cheque for my lawyer.... anything/anyone i can negotiate with before DD/cert.cheque comes out???

closing includes:
- my portion prop.taxes
- maint.fee (condo)
- land tx.fee
- titl.ins
- legal fee.

need as many opinions i can get within 2 days or so from y'all RFD'ers...

[dark169]

the only thing in there that you can wiggle on is the lawyers fees but that should have been done prior to the work being done.

The taxes / condo fees really are dependant on the date purchased vs the date paid and you can double check to make sure your not getting ripped off but your lawyer should be doign that for you. If the current owner paid for the whole year Jan 1, and you take possion Apr 1 you need to be 75% of what he paid (8/12 months remaining in the year).

all fees should be done at cost by your lawyer (plus his hourly rate)

I dont think its unreasonable dpeneding onthe tax timing.

[thelefteyeguy]

here are my closing cost:

196K (including 8400gst builder claims the 4727rebate from govt on first home buyer)

Tarion: 460
Development Charge/Education levy: 113
Trustee Fee: 150
Bulletin 19 (tarion): 98
Land Transfer Tax paid by vendor: 145
Property tax for the 2006: 1581
Common Elements (prorated for month) 270
Legal:
LEGAL FEES (Lawyer): 1110
Registration: 141
First CanadianTitle: 216
Execution: 33
CIBC: 10
Courier: 15
TOTAL: 4342

Land Transfer tax: 1600 (but got a rebate back) so $0

if I had claimed a land transfer tax rebate before:

5942$


which is exactly 6K (ie your scenario)
i closed 8 weeks ago

[illusion81]

Quick question. So this 5 - 6 grand you guys speak of, this is on top of what you paid for the condo? So if you bought the condo for 195K you had to pay 5 - 6K on top of that to cover this other stuff? Sorry I know nothing about buying / selling homes, lived in an apt. most of my life. I plan to buy a condo in a couple of years from now, so this would be a good to know. Thanks.

[Nemodigital]

Yeah same here... I thought closing costs were only around $2,000 :confused:

[rb]

generally no - no wiggle room , most are mandated expenses - maybe the lawyer will reduce his fees though i doubt it

[jerryhung]

I thought general rule is 3-5% of the purchased price

http://www.ingdirect.ca/en/ekit_closing.html

[daisyville]

Perhaps some of the confusion in how much is normal for closing costs is the inclusion of some expenditures which may not be actual closing costs.

To me, closing costs include the legal fees, land transfer taxes, title insurance, title searches, etc. The legal fees should be negotiated up front. Be sure to ask your lawyer what is included in that. Sometimes lawyers will charge you to send money transfers from one lender to another, etc.

Fees like a portion of the municipal taxes are an operating expense for owning your own property, and just have to be negotiated on close, but likely shouldn't be considered part of the closing costs. You'll be paying municipal tax again next year ;) You can appreciate that your portion of the municipal taxes will be greater if your home closes in April, than they will be if it closes in November.

Condominium maintenance fees are again, operational, and aren't technically closing costs exclusively, but need to be settled upon close so that the seller is compensated for expenditures already paid.

GST on new homes, again, isn't really a closing cost - it's part of the cost of buying the home.

New homes often have a few more closing costs, which may include things like new water hook-ups and other municipal service charges. These will vary from municipality to municipality.

[jande9]

I bought a house once with the oil tank half full of heating oil. I had to pay for that extra.
Also I've paid for the curtains, which normally aren't included in the house. Not that much though.

[thelefteyeguy]

Perhaps some of the confusion in how much is normal for closing costs is the inclusion of some expenditures which may not be actual closing costs.

To me, closing costs include the legal fees, land transfer taxes, title insurance, title searches, etc. The legal fees should be negotiated up front. Be sure to ask your lawyer what is included in that. Sometimes lawyers will charge you to send money transfers from one lender to another, etc.

Fees like a portion of the municipal taxes are an operating expense for owning your own property, and just have to be negotiated on close, but likely shouldn't be considered part of the closing costs. You'll be paying municipal tax again next year ;) You can appreciate that your portion of the municipal taxes will be greater if your home closes in April, than they will be if it closes in November.

Condominium maintenance fees are again, operational, and aren't technically closing costs exclusively, but need to be settled upon close so that the seller is compensated for expenditures already paid.

GST on new homes, again, isn't really a closing cost - it's part of the cost of buying the home.

New homes often have a few more closing costs, which may include things like new water hook-ups and other municipal service charges. These will vary from municipality to municipality.


whether it's closing or not...be expected to pay these for a new condo closing ;)

[sparkplug]

I bought a house once with the oil tank half full of heating oil. I had to pay for that extra.
Also I've paid for the curtains, which normally aren't included in the house. Not that much though.

I would've negotiated those to be included in your offer.

[ayeung]

My closing cost for buying: My lawyer charged me $1200 (including disbursement, interim and final closing) plus title insurance $350.
Of course, I paid way more than that because of the land transfer tax (a few thousand), property tax owed to previous owner/builder, builder's adjustments including all kinds of levies for new homes (a whopping $4500)

My closing cost for selling: $700 for lawyers fees, and he also charged me another $200 approx for bridging
Of course, I also need to pay agents fees/commission minus the deposit the buyer of my new condo, any property tax owing or overpayment will also be here.

[daisyville]

whether it's closing or not...be expected to pay these for a new condo closing ;)

I was just trying to point out that when folks quote a certain % of the purchase price to be an estimate for closing costs, that only includes certain things. While they need to be paid upon closing, they may not actually be part of the closing costs, but either regular operational expenses, or as one poster noted, additional purchases from the vendor (oil, drapes, etc).

[don242]

here are my closing cost:

196K (including 8400gst builder claims the 4727rebate from govt on first home buyer)



Land Transfer tax: 1600 (but got a rebate back) so $0

if I had claimed a land transfer tax rebate before:

5942$




How do you get a rebate on the Land Transfer tax? Is it for first time home buyers only? When did this start? I bought our house 5 years ago (first home) and nothing about a rebate was ever mentioned.

[Div]

I bought a house once with the oil tank half full of heating oil. I had to pay for that extra.
Also I've paid for the curtains, which normally aren't included in the house. Not that much though.
If that wasn't negotiated in the original offer, I would have told the seller to siphon out the oil....

[smokeylovelove]

My brother just closed with a $8000 cost for a $500,000 home.

[Ferdundra]

I am in the process of paying the following for a $205,000 home with 10% down. It's my first purchase so I have no real idea if this is standard or not.

Lawyer (incl disburs, tax) 1400
Land Transfer 1725
CMHC PST 296
Title Ins 250
Tax Adjust 500

Total: 4171

[ayeung]

I am in the process of paying the following for a $205,000 home with 10% down. It's my first purchase so I have no real idea if this is standard or not.

Lawyer (incl disburs, tax) 1400
Land Transfer 1725
CMHC PST 296
Title Ins 250
Tax Adjust 500

Total: 4171

If it's your first purchase, you don't need to pay for your land transfer tax back and your lawyer will take care of that. Just make sure he knows you're a first time buyer. There is maximum amount you can get back, but I think you are within the limit, so you're ok.

[don242]

If it's your first purchase, you don't need to pay for your land transfer tax back and your lawyer will take care of that. Just make sure he knows you're a first time buyer. There is maximum amount you can get back, but I think you are within the limit, so you're ok.

But the land transfer tax rebate is only if you are a first time buyer, buying a NEW house? Not a previously owned house.

[grant]

A decent lawyer should explain to you each of the costs. I pay my notary $450 for a transaction too! :D

Also, ditto on the oil... if the seller thinks it's his, he can come and get it!

[Ducky]

this is for NEW home purchases only.

If it's your first purchase, you don't need to pay for your land transfer tax back and your lawyer will take care of that. Just make sure he knows you're a first time buyer. There is maximum amount you can get back, but I think you are within the limit, so you're ok.

[Ferdundra]

Yes I should clarify, this is not a new home purchase. It is a 20 year old home.

[kaycee8877]

It's my first purchase so I have no real idea if this is standard or not.

Lawyer (incl disburs, tax) 1400



lawyer fees of 1400 sounds really high ... im thinking more along the lines of 700-800 even cheaper for a notary

the prop transfer tax exemption (at least in BC) does NOT have to be for a new home, just has to be your first house purchase for your principal residence, and not acreage

[sleepyguy]

Lawyer fees are quite expensive... good thing we have a relative who is a lawyer so we only had to pay the forms fee :)

[cluless]

lawyer fees of 1400 sounds really high ... im thinking more along the lines of 700-800 even cheaper for a notary


I'm in the process of buying a house myself and thought that $1400 seems high. However, when I inquired about the breakdown it consists of the lawyer's service fee PLUS disbursements, thus the total coming out to over $1000.

I've called 3 lawyers so far and their service fee NOT including disbursements range from $650 to $950 which is yowsers! :confused:

Disbursements are what will drive the total costs up in the end as they include items as register mortgage, register deed, title insurance and etc..

I'm still shopping around for a real estate lawyer in the next couple of days, so if anyone has any good leads/referrals please PM me. Thanks very much!

[kaycee8877]

wow high priced Toronto lawyers .. in BC we're looking at about 450 + disbrusement + tax = ~ 800

i mean the lawyer him/herself doesnt even do much they have staff that take care of all the conveyancing

i cant remember for sure but i think my notary last year was 650 all in

[jerryhung]

KW
quoted 2 lawyers for a 155K house closing
one is $1100, one $1400

$1100 it is.


There is another firm who does commericial-like packages for $1000 in Kitchener. but I prefer a more personal one

[Ferdundra]

To break down my payment it was something like

Lawyer fee - $650
Disbursements - $550
Total: 1200
Total with tax: Close to 1400

[ayeung]

I didn't know refund of land trandfer tax is only for new homes only. So, I was just luck I bought new for my 1st home and got the refund.

[don242]

The lawyer we are using in Cambridge, ON for a 270K house, has said $1195 and includes fees, disbursements and title insurance. I am assuming that quote doesn't include tax.

[freebiejunkie]

My husband and I are also house hunting...our mortgage broker referred us to Rutman & Rutman (www.rutmanlaw.com). They are located in Brampton..our broker stated that they provide a great service and very helpful..
I emailed the lawyer, Daniel Rutman, as he specializes in real estate...so far he's pretty prompt in his response with my inquiries...he quoted it as

"We charge $899.00 which includes legal fees, disbursements
and GST. It does not include Land Transfer Tax and Registration
fees. We would send a lawyer to your home when it came time
to sign the paperwork."

Here's their information:
184 Queen Street West Brampton, Ontario L6X 1A8
Tel: 905-456-9969, Fax: 905-456-7448
or by email at: info@rutmanlaw.com
www.rutmanlaw.com

Since we live downtown, he will have a lawyer come by instead of us travelling to his office. Hope he's as good as my broker says.

Good luck!
:)
I'm in the process of buying a house myself and thought that $1400 seems high. However, when I inquired about the breakdown it consists of the lawyer's service fee PLUS disbursements, thus the total coming out to over $1000.

I've called 3 lawyers so far and their service fee NOT including disbursements range from $650 to $950 which is yowsers! :confused:

Disbursements are what will drive the total costs up in the end as they include items as register mortgage, register deed, title insurance and etc..

I'm still shopping around for a real estate lawyer in the next couple of days, so if anyone has any good leads/referrals please PM me. Thanks very much!

[faizalm]

I didn't know refund of land trandfer tax is only for new homes only. So, I was just luck I bought new for my 1st home and got the refund.

can anyone else re-confirm this...
if the refund-back for 1st time home buyers on Land tax at the brand new house or resale homes?

by de way keep the good replies coming RFDers...

[grant]

can anyone else re-confirm this...
if the refund-back for 1st time home buyers on Land tax at the brand new house or resale homes?

In BC the PTT is exempt if the person lives in the unit for 1 year and it's the first property they have ever owned in the world. A maximum purchase price applies.

New or used is irrelevant.

[sdm242]

can anyone else re-confirm this...
if the refund-back for 1st time home buyers on Land tax at the brand new house or resale homes?

In Ontario, the Land Transfer Tax rebate is for NEW homes only.


"FIRST-TIME BUYERS who purchase a NEWLY CONSTRUCTED HOME will receive a rebate of the LTT. All other buyers will continue to pay the full applicable tax"
http://www.teamboduryan.com/4a_custpage_8410.html