Need an alternative to VISA, I refuse to deal with them anymore.

[duckdown]

Hey all.

So, today, an online company I signed up with last month automatically re-billed and re-cycled my account from last month, even though I had submitted MULTIPLE requests for account cancellation and never received a response from their technical support staff.

So, obviously pissed off, I decided to call VISA because everybody says how helpful they are about unwanted charges, and how people even get chargebacks done..

Well, lo and behold, I managed to pull in the worlds #1 rudest customer service representative, who basically told me it was MY fault for not reading the fine print on the website. I politely told her that I had been TRYING to cancel my account, and they did not respond. She then told me, "Well, we don't do anything until you send them notice VIA registered mail to stop billing your credit card"

I said, "What are you, friggin stoned?" By that time it could be a whole nother month before I get a response and they could friggin bill me AGAIN in that time.

So they did absolutely NOTHING for me, and I am less than satisfied. People say VISA is great and all that, and sure, that Extended Warranty thing would have been nice, but I refuse to deal with this kind of company that isn't even going to assist me when an unwanted charge has been made to my credit card.

So, I would like to drop VISA and not give them any more of my hard earned money for the rest of my life, but I guess my question is, what OTHER credit cards out there compare?

Rewards would be nice, but aren't a neccessity. Most important would be (hopefully) the free extended warranty feature, or, even more so, a company that actually protects its customers from outside idiots billing my card without my consent.

If anybody has any useful information or something I can use, I value every response/advice

Thanks all.

[huzefa420]

Mastercard, AMEX sound good. Really, they are mostly the same.

[duckdown]

Somebody said Mastercards are a scam, but I don't understand why or how.. How are they about protecting you from unwanted charges though is what I'd wonder.

[PC-stuff]

RFD has a very good article on no-fee credit cards.

You mean they would not simply reverse the transaction for you?
Was there some kind of long term contract that you agreed to?
What kind of online servcie did you buy?

[duckdown]

RFD has a very good article on no-fee credit cards.
Fee or no fee, it doesn't help me if they wont protect me.

You mean they would not simply reverse the transaction for you?
I friggin wish, they said they can't do that until I send them notice by registered mail.

Was there some kind of long term contract that you agreed to?
Who, with the online company? Hell no, it's a monthly term.. And I don't have any "contract" with VISA?

What kind of online servcie did you buy?
An online News Service provider

[duckdown]

Sorry, not sure if this is useful or related, but it's an RBC Rewards VISA card (My chequing account is with Royal too.)

I'm so mad that I'd consider even leaving Royal if I found out that I was dealing with a ROYAL employee and not a VISA one.

[PC-stuff]

FYI: You were dealing with an RBC employee.

Can you show RBC/VISA the proof that you cancelled
the service, e.g. an email you sent or print-out of a web page?

[TheDude79]

This isn't a VISA issue, it's a you and your 'online news company' issue. You authorized VISA charges, so VISA won't reverse the charges unless you submit your request to that company by mail. There wasn't any 'fraud' committed (at worst so far it's slow processing or a misplaced request), so what do you honestly expect VISA to do? They will protect you, as you ask, but you do have to jump through their hoops to prove that you did indeed cancel the service.

By the way, why don't you tell us what the crappy news company is so that we can all avoid giving them our CC info in the future.

[odd person]

don't know your location, but try the Canadian Tire Gas Advantage MasterCard

www.canadiantire.ca/gasadvantage

[akira1971]

AMEX suspended a disputed item (parking at the office - 100% my fault as I forgot I used it twice on that day but I assumed they just double-billed me) until they received confirmation from the merchant. I should stress that they did not reverse the entry at any time - only suspended.

However, I think VISA's response to you is absolutely valid, especially when this is not a situation of fraud or lost credit card charges.

When you signed up the news service with your CC, there most likely was a "terms of agreement" you clicked yes to? If so, I can't see how VISA or any other credit card would be able to jump in a dispute between you and the service provider. And registered mail is the only proof they'll have that you tried to cancel the service - email or phone calls won't be enough.

[The_Madz]

i'm actually glad visa didn't do it for you. If you know anyone who is a merchant you will understand why. Credit card companies, specifically Amex will screw over merchants to "protect" their customers

that being said, if you want a card to screw merchants with, get an Amex, they will just take your word for it and reverse charges. most of the time no proof is needed other than "i dont know what that charge is for"

[T-Bone]

You clicked "Yes" to the terms of agreement. Did you know the terms? Apparently not. Lesson learned.

If you do cancel and they continue to bill you, then you have a case with VISA to reverse the charges. You are responsible for providing proof that you have sent notice of cancellation.

VISA or any other credit cards can protect you from being ripped off, however they cannot protect you from being ignorant.

[ebizimage]

Somebody said Mastercards are a scam, but I don't understand why or how.. How are they about protecting you from unwanted charges though is what I'd wonder.

Mastercard is the same. We had similar issue before. Even that we canceled the Mastercard, they could still re-bill to it, and if you read the Mastercard fine print, you will find some sentences which allow them to do that.

And Yes, Amex does reverse it immediately for online merchants. Amex approves online merchants very easily, so they set up the account for online merchants that all disputes will be reversed immediately.

[st7860]

you won't get billed if you report the card stolen.

for example, if you have an annoying company that keeps billing you,

what you should do is

1. go out to 7-11 and buy something small like $5 of milk or a big subway sandwich.
2. go home then call the credit card company and say you lost your wallet after you bought the sandwich.

[thesk8man]

to ducktown:
hi, the same thing happened to me. most online websites have end of month rebilling on auto so they dont loose customers, or whatever their reasons are.

any way honestly speaking i have resolved the same issue with differant visa'as couple of time. normally its very easy but once in a while you'll get a rep on the other end of the phone who forgot to take his medicine that day. so simply hang up and cool down drink some cold water breath in and dial that number again and act stupid.


i bet if you try it with another rep it will work plus the stupider you act the more chance of you getting that thing done. i`ve learned that from my past experience.

[Agent_J]

you won't get billed if you report the card stolen.

for example, if you have an annoying company that keeps billing you,

what you should do is

1. go out to 7-11 and buy something small like $5 of milk or a big subway sandwich.
2. go home then call the credit card company and say you lost your wallet after you bought the sandwich.
hmm you should think about the ethical issues before doing this

[cookie-monster]

I have a similar story with RBC Visa. But they refused to back me up *even after* I'd sent a formal letter of rescission (slightly different to normal contract cancellation, but not for these purposes) to the vendor. Only after I had initiated an action in Small Claims Court did RBC Visa agree to dispute the ongoing monthly charges from the vendor. Only after the vendor went bankrupt, and I threatened to sue RBC Visa did RBC Visa reimburse me for all of the monthly charges in question (i.e. including those before I began legal action).

But, really, I think you *do* need to send a formal letter of cancellation. E-mail/phone isn't good enough for the purposes of demonstrating the effective date of cancellation. Unfortunately, a contract (here: cancellation of a contract) is only as effective as your contractual partner. You should always assume the worst - that you'll need documentary evidence to get what you want.

You can send a formal letter now that refers back to particular earlier instances of correspondence (even attach the e-mails you sent if you have them), and include in that letter a statement to the effect that the letter constitutes a *further* request that the vendor recognize your *earlier* notice of cancellation, effective as of [earlier date, not date you send letter]. Not ideal, but it might help in your argument with RBC Visa.

I left RBC Visa for Mastercard. Been through both BMO (left because of annual fee) and Citi Mastercard (currently still with Citi, and very happy), and neither has ever treated me as poorly. I think a lot of why banks and credit card companies treat people so badly is because so many of us don't back up our threats to leave, sue, etc. with action. So they assume that you're just like everyone else that complains, and you won't do anything. Just my own little theory...

[tkyoshi]

I think in general I've always found the Mastercard Issuing banks to be more friendly in customer service than Visa Banks.

Even when a payment is like a day late Mastercard usually says it's ok and doesn't charge interest or anything if they do they only charge the daily balance. Visa they charged 2 months of interest (CIBC) and rudely said "well sir, all cards are the same". The only exception is Bank of America, they are the only friendly Visa issuing bank i've come across.

Anywho i did have a dispute with MC before and they were very helpful in helping me resolve the claim, I had to wait 1 month for the investigation but i got my money back without much hassle.

[Krox]

Visa has been pretty good to my g/f. She had a mysterious charge on her bill from a spa in the states. She called and the reversed the charge. All she had to do was sign a letter that the charge was not hers.

On the other hand my mother-in-law had a charge on her Mastercard. When she called the rep she was told that she would have to call the company that billed her. They wouldn't do anything to help. When she finally tracked to the company (it was the university application center) she found the card number was the same but not the exp date. Mastercards response to this was "b/c it was application center they like to err on the side of caution and put the charge thru". So she had to do all the leg work for a mistake that was clearly Mastercards.

[duckdown]

You clicked "Yes" to the terms of agreement. Did you know the terms? Apparently not. Lesson learned.

If you do cancel and they continue to bill you, then you have a case with VISA to reverse the charges. You are responsible for providing proof that you have sent notice of cancellation.

VISA or any other credit cards can protect you from being ripped off, however they cannot protect you from being ignorant.

Disappointing, but if that's how you feel then you're entitled to your opinion

[duckdown]

you won't get billed if you report the card stolen.

for example, if you have an annoying company that keeps billing you,

what you should do is

1. go out to 7-11 and buy something small like $5 of milk or a big subway sandwich.
2. go home then call the credit card company and say you lost your wallet after you bought the sandwich.

Haha, thanks man, but I doubt the charge would fall under than time-frame :-)

Cheers, though

[duckdown]

Mastercard is the same. We had similar issue before. Even that we canceled the Mastercard, they could still re-bill to it, and if you read the Mastercard fine print, you will find some sentences which allow them to do that.

And Yes, Amex does reverse it immediately for online merchants. Amex approves online merchants very easily, so they set up the account for online merchants that all disputes will be reversed immediately.

Thanks man


I'm not thrilled with this, and even more surprising is the people who agree with the online company and their lame auto-rebilling tactics. Guess it's pretty apparent more than a few companies employ this lame tactic.

Sometimes you can just tell who's a true RFD'er and who isn't.

[Aske001]

I think the credit card companies have some internal rules about which sort of transactions they will cancel on request, and which sort they won't. This is my impression from my own experiences (on both sides, merchant and consumer), and those of my friends and family. Can anyone add to this?

Cancel on request:
- Online or telephone transactions where there is no signature, and no additional identification beyond card number and expiry date. Assumed that there is no proof that the transaction was made by you, unless the merchant provides it.
- Any type of "mail order" transaction, including many types of internet business, where it is assumed that there is no positive proof that the goods were delivered. Up to the merchant to provide positive proof.
- "Foreign" company transactions. If you live in the USA, the U.S.-based credit card companies will cancel transactions posted by foreign companies unless they are multi-nationals with a U.S. presence. It's assumed that foreigners are always ready to cheat Americans. Canadian credit card companies are a little tougher on this.

Won't cancel:
- Transactions with your signature, or other positive ID provided by merchant
- Ongoing agreements with regular billing, where you have provided proof of agreement by past payment

[deep]

...the online company and their lame auto-rebilling tactics...

Why is the title of this thread about a complaint with VISA? Sounds like your only complaint is with this unspecified online company. Even your focus throughout this thread has shifted.

From what I've read, you called them to cancel, and they didn't. Get it in writing - that seems sensible enough at this point, doesn't it? As soon as you do that, Visa will have your back. Always document service disputes.

I have had VISA cover me for as little as $19.99 and as much as $2500 for service disputes, and they do it SO well, and SO quickly, and SO professionally.....when you do your side of things properly. Maybe without the "are you stoned" comments - you made yourself sound like a biatch right there. I wouldn't help you either.

I would change the title of this thread, and let us know who the online company is. I think most people here are aware that VISA has excellent service, which is why you're not getting a lot of love.

[st7860]

Haha, thanks man, but I doubt the charge would fall under than time-frame :-)

Cheers, though

What i meant was, the purpose of going to 7-11 to buy a $5 sandwich is to provide a reason you lost your wallet, in those types of situations FUTURE charges to that card number from anywhere are usually blocked.

simply cancelling a credit card will NOT block all charges!!. but reporting it lost WILL.

[Agent_J]

I have had VISA cover me for as little as $19.99 and as much as $2500 for service disputes, and they do it SO well, and SO quickly, and SO professionally.....when you do your side of things properly. Maybe without the "are you stoned" comments - you made yourself sound like a biatch right there. I wouldn't help you either.

I would change the title of this thread, and let us know who the online company is. I think most people here are aware that VISA has excellent service, which is why you're not getting a lot of love.
which VISA bank are you with deep?

[deep]

which VISA bank are you with deep?

I have a Scotialine Visa for my business purchases.

[eliteblaze]

wow.. I thought they'dbe tougher with business charges since multiple employees are involved

[st7860]

I have a Scotialine Visa for my business purchases.

Why would you use a business line? Do they give you a very low interest rate? Most business lines have no grace period.

CIBC offers a Business Aerogold with a low interest rate, $180 per year vs the regular $120 for Aerogold.

[deep]

Why would you use a business line? Do they give you a very low interest rate? Most business lines have no grace period.

CIBC offers a Business Aerogold with a low interest rate, $180 per year vs the regular $120 for Aerogold.

The Business Aerogold interest rate is 10.9%, 13.9% or 16.9%, depending on their credit enquiry. Even 10.9% is too high. The Scotialine is as low as prime, although mine is prime +3%, presumably because I am a little dude with a little business.

I get:

No annual fee. ($180 per year with CIBC)
Free additional cards. ($50 per card per year with CIBC)
Standard 1 month to pay...I don't need a grace period.

I don't get:

travel insurance or aeroplan miles....no biggie for me.

I think the ScotiaLine looks a lot more attractive, personally.


edit: also, the Scotialine hooks into my "Total Equity Plan" so the credit limit is pretty huge, although I've never used it for more than about $20K at a time.

[st7860]

Yes, thats right. the Aerogold and similar cards are useful only if you pay off your balance each month otherwise its useless collecting points but paying heavy interest.


capital one offers a 6.9% card, no annual fee, no promotional interest rates.
http://www.capitalone.ca/canada/cards/lrplatinum.php?linkid=CAN_Z_CCR_Z_CCRCOM_C1_01_G_C CRLRP

[TheDude79]

Sometimes you can just tell who's a true RFD'er and who isn't.
Hahaha.... that's funny. 'True RFD'er', makes me laugh picturing people sitting around hitting F5 in the hot deals forum to get deals right away, or the guys who always write 'in before lock' in threads.

I don't think that anyone here agreed with what the anonymous 'online company' did in continuing to charge you. The issue is that it isn't out-of-line for VISA (RBC) to ask you to provide reasonable proof that you indeed did cancel the service.