Dubai? No, Thanks! (56K Warning)

[Gordon]

This is in response to this thread.

http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=264217

Come on guys, we all live in Canada! What beats the scenary in Toronto at night? Show some pride in where we live!
Not some middle eastern country like DUBAI. In all serious-ness. They have no enviorment laws do they? They polute so much in creating these new buildings and sand castles along with their Exotic gas guggling Sports Cars. Im sure their resources will deplete sooner or later. Im basing all this on opinion so people don't flame me if I haven't got my facts right. Im expressing my opinion on this whole "Dubai" thing.
Im sure Dubai sounds too good to be true. There must be a catch..
(sarcasm)Hmm I wonder if the americans might think that Dubai is a threat to their security and drop a bomb on them? :confused: :lol: (/sarcasm)

Heres some pictures of TORONTO!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/gordonh/Toronto1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/gordonh/bigtoronto.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/gordonh/toronto_night_1024x768.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/gordonh/24.jpg

Sorry for the spelling.

[lkn4deals]

i'll only flame you for not knowing how to spell... :evil:

EDIT: I spoke to soon...and for your stupid bomb comment...grow up

[Gordon]

i'll only flame you for not knowing how to spell... :evil:

EDIT: I spoke to soon...and for your stupid bomb comment...grow up

I was just joking around. Buddy cut me some slack.

[poromol]

why do we have to compare with other countries and cultures? why can't we be happy for our way of life, and they can be happy for their way of life.

PS. CANADA IS THE BEST!! ...a bit hypocritical lol

[Avant_Garde]

I'm living in downtown Toronto right now and it's a dirty place with homeless people at virtually every corner. It's architecture is also very bland and depressing.

[Gordon]

why do we have to compare with other countries and cultures? why can't we be happy for our way of life, and they can be happy for their way of life.

PS. CANADA IS THE BEST!! ...a bit hypocritical lol

Thank you! That was my point all along! We should be happy in where we live. Other countries will live how they want and we will live how we want. When I'm in Toronto I feel at home. The type of culture that i would enjoy. O yeah p.s. the girls here are hotter! im just jokingg! :lol:

I'm living in downtown Toronto right now and it's a dirty place with homeless people at virtually every corner. It's architecture is also very bland and depressing.

Bad area? See thats something the government could improve on. Which I dislike too.

[poedua]

why do we have to compare with other countries and cultures? why can't we be happy for our way of life, and they can be happy for their way of life.

PS. CANADA IS THE BEST!! ...a bit hypocritical lol

Sorry, no Tim's in Dubai...end of story. :)

[EH100501AC]

I was just joking around. Buddy cut me some slack.

Slack cut. :lol:

[lkn4deals]

what exactly is a gaz guGGling car? :lol:

[hyperion]

Second pic is cash.

[Avant_Garde]

Thank you! That was my point all along! We should be happy in where we live. Other countries will live how they want and we will live how we want. When I'm in Toronto I feel at home. The type of culture that i would enjoy. O yeah p.s. the girls here are hotter! im just jokingg! :lol:



Bad area? See thats something the government could improve on. Which I dislike too.

If you consider the U of T St. George campus a "bad area" then sure.

[Gordon]

what exactly is a gaz guGGling car? :lol:

Quit bickering, you get my point.

If you consider the U of T St. George campus a "bad area" then sure.

I added a question mark of bad area... So I wasn't sure.

[kinggori]

Oh No!!!!!!!
Another thread on Dubai! :eek:

[Emancipated]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/gordonh/toronto_night_1024x768.jpg

What the hell is that celestrial body in the corner? Did the moon develop water channels recently?

[divx]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/gordonh/toronto_night_1024x768.jpg

What the hell is that celestrial body in the corner? Did the moon develop water channels recently?
The city is on a meteor flying towards earth

[Ojam]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/gordonh/toronto_night_1024x768.jpg

What the hell is that celestrial body in the corner? Did the moon develop water channels recently?

lol I didn't notice that because it was off my screen.

[kinggori]

I agree with the OP though... you can't even compare wonderful Canada to Dubai.

Here is another point of view photos of Dubai:
http://www.q8speed.com/php/viewtopic.php?t=7707

[fl4wless]

whatever helps you sleep at night OP.

[kinggori]

whatever helps you sleep at night OP.

nice display pic :)

[gei]

Dubai might be a nice place to visit once, but you can't really compare the UAE to the undisputed greatest country in the world.

And if you're picking a place to live, I think 99/100 people would pick Toronto over Dubai.

[M.D.]

the 3rd pic is edited and the 4th pic is blurry. you can find better pics of Toronto! come on!
People start posting NICE pics of Canada (not only Toronto please)

[fl4wless]

Thank you! That was my point all along! We should be happy in where we live. Other countries will live how they want and we will live how we want. When I'm in Toronto I feel at home. The type of culture that i would enjoy. O yeah p.s. the girls here are hotter! im just jokingg! :lol:



When you are in toronto as opposed to what? The type of culture you would enjoy?? Im gonna go out on a limb here and guess that youve likely never been overseas, or experienced a completely different culture than what we have in canada.

[Lonely Soldier Boy]

LOL @ anyone who thinks Toronto is somehow comparable to any real city with culture.

Sorry guys, I hate Montreal but even it has more of a right to the title.

[Lonely Soldier Boy]

the 3rd pic is edited and the 4th pic is blurry. you can find better pics of Toronto! come on!
People start posting NICE pics of Canada (not only Toronto please)

http://www.ordisante.com/Halifax-Trip---Originals-18.jpg

Halifax is a beautiful city. (And yes I did take that picture - benefits of waking up around 5 AM instead of going to the club with your friends)

[purple_rabbit]

LOL @ anyone who thinks Toronto is somehow comparable to any real city with culture.

Sorry guys, I hate Montreal but even it has more of a right to the title.


Toronto doesn't even come close to Montreal when it comes to nightlife, culture and everything else non-boring. I lived in both cities, and I hate Toronto so much...

Edit: You know what, I've also been ticked off with the amount of coverage Dubai has been getting in the offtopics. Great, Middle East finally has something to brag about. Enough already!! 50%+ here is Asian and I don't see them bragging so much.

[aquariaguy]

This is in response to this thread.

http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=264217

Come on guys, we all live in Canada! What beats the scenary in Toronto at night? Show some pride in where we live!


I did put some pictures of Toronto up in the thread :)

[Lonely Soldier Boy]

Toronto doesn't even come close to Montreal when it comes to nightlife, culture and everything else non-boring. I lived in both cities, and I hate Toronto so much...

Edit: You know what, I've also been ticked off with the amount of coverage Dubai has been getting in the offtopics. Great, Middle East finally has something to brag about. Enough already!! 50%+ here is Asian and I don't see them bragging so much.

I dunno, I was in Tokyo and I have been changed as a result. If someone asked me, I'd sing the praises of that city. I hear a lot of people saying the same about Hong Kong.

Dubai is a city on the rise and a lot of people go there (and know people who have gone). If I could get a job there I may or may not have gone - I am sure the sheer amount of wealth concentrated in a few hands would either motivate me or embitter me.

[purple_rabbit]

I dunno, I was in Tokyo and I have been changed as a result. If someone asked me, I'd sing the praises of that city. I hear a lot of people saying the same about Hong Kong.

Dubai is a city on the rise and a lot of people go there (and know people who have gone). If I could get a job there I may or may not have gone - I am sure the sheer amount of wealth concentrated in a few hands would either motivate me or embitter me.


I'm not saying its a bad city. In fact it's a great one. My dad has been to Dubai and had a lot of praise for it and is even thinking of opening an office there.

It's not what people think. Dubai is very different from other middle eastern cities and has great potential. I just don't understand why people have to make a competition out of it.

[boonjaca]

I dunno, I was in Tokyo and I have been changed as a result. If someone asked me, I'd sing the praises of that city. I hear a lot of people saying the same about Hong Kong.

I was in both Tokyo and Hong Kong last year and they were both amazing cities for sites and sounds, night life and transportation. I felt more lively in those cities, I don't know if it was due to me being on vacation, but the night life was amazing.

I agree with one of the other posters, Montreal rocks, the first time I went there was the only time that I said to myself that it is a city that I would actually move to.

[MrWizard]

I agree with the OP though... you can't even compare wonderful Canada to Dubai.

Here is another point of view photos of Dubai:
http://www.q8speed.com/php/viewtopic.php?t=7707

Yeah...because we NEVER have car crashes...

[asim99]

Edit: You know what, I've also been ticked off with the amount of coverage Dubai has been getting in the offtopics. Great, Middle East finally has something to brag about. Enough already!! 50%+ here is Asian and I don't see them bragging so much.
dubai is in asia, you know!

[FastFokker]

This is stupid.. why are Torontonians so nuts?

You guys can't stand a thread about Dubai so you make a thread about Toronto!?!? Give the rest of us Canadians a break.

I've been to Toronto a few times, it's about as great as any other big city throughout North America.

[asim99]

many toronto pix on this site: http://wvs.topleftpixel.com/archives.html
http://wvs.topleftpixel.com/photos/2006/03/kensington_market_globe-sign_cn-tower_01.jpg

[boonjaca]

This is stupid.. why are Torontonians so nuts?

You guys can't stand a thread about Dubai so you make a thread about Toronto!?!? Give the rest of us Canadians a break.

I've been to Toronto a few times, it's about as great as any other big city throughout North America.

Easy there with the generalizations about torontonians.

[FastFokker]

Easy there with the generalizations about torontonians.Sorry.. I know plenty of perfectly normal Torontonians. ;)

I just can't believe how much harassment the Dubai thread got from certain Torontonians, and a thread is made in direct opposition to the Dubai thread.

How lame.

[laptop-tech]

............

http://www.williamknox.net/salvador.jpg

[boonjaca]

Sorry.. I know plenty of perfectly normal Torontonians. ;)

I just can't believe how much harassment the Dubai thread got from certain Torontonians, and a thread is made in direct opposition to the Dubai thread.

How lame.

If you're talking about the fastest growing city thread then I didn't read it but if it was bashing Dubai then I'm glad I didn't. I saw some pics from the first page and it looks great, let these people enjoy their city, no need for negativity.

[Gordon]

I agree with the OP though... you can't even compare wonderful Canada to Dubai.

Here is another point of view photos of Dubai:
http://www.q8speed.com/php/viewtopic.php?t=7707

Yeah...because we NEVER have car crashes...

At least we crash garbage cars like Hondas and not Lamborgini Murciallagos.

[jedijome]

do everyone a favour and put up pictures of vancouver, montreal, calgary and ottawa if you're really trying to make favourable comparisons. toronto is nice and all that but really it's not all that great to look at.

[FastFokker]

At least we crash garbage cars like Hondas and not Lamborgini Murciallagos.Well in poorer nations than Canada, a "garbage honda" would appear to them how a Lamborgini appears to us.

So I guess at least in the poorer nations they crash bicycles and not Honda Preludes. :rolleyes:

[SergesPlace]

Toronto looks like a dump compared to this and i'll take this over Dubai anytime!!

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/6783/vancouver6001vf.jpg

[jedijome]

i love vancouver and think it's an awesome city but please refrain from calling toronto a dump.

you're begining to sound worse than those obnoxious torontonians that the rest of canada loves to hate.

[Lonely Soldier Boy]

Toronto looks like a dump compared to this and i'll take this over Dubai anytime!!


I concur!

[SergesPlace]

i love vancouver and think it's an awesome city but please refrain from calling toronto a dump.

you're begining to sound worse than those obnoxious torontonians that the rest of canada loves to hate.

Well, if it smells like a dump ...

[FastFokker]

I think most major cities in Canada are very nice.. I personally prefer Vancouver over Toronto, but I still prefer Halifax. >:(

It's a nice blend of modern technology and business along with old world heritage and charm.

http://www.sandyhines.com/cithill.jpghttp://www.sandyhines.com/airhal.jpghttp://www.sandyhines.com/blueno.jpghttp://www.sandyhines.com/bridge.jpg

[insanity]

I live in Toronto and in terms of beauty compared to Dubai there's no leg to stand on for Toronto. Dubai is a very beautiful place - Toronto does not come even close to it. Toronto may look nice in the night with all the lights, but when the lights come back on - reality strikes.

I'm only comparing the two places from a beauty stand point, not quality of life.

[FastFokker]

As pointed out by Poedua in the Dubai thread, Vancouver beats out Toronto:

http://www.7days.ae/feature/the-worlda-s-best-places-to-live.html

TOP TEN - The World’s Best Places to Live

* Vancouver, Canada
* Melbourne, Australia
* Vienna, Austria
* Geneva, Switzerland
* Perth, Australia
* Adelaide, Australia
* Sydney, Australia
* Zurich, Switzerland
* Toronto, Canada
* Calgary, Canada

[poedua]

As pointed out by Poedua in the Dubai thread, Vancouver beats out Toronto:

http://www.7days.ae/feature/the-worlda-s-best-places-to-live.html

TOP TEN - The World’s Best Places to Live

* Vancouver, Canada
* Melbourne, Australia
* Vienna, Austria
* Geneva, Switzerland
* Perth, Australia
* Adelaide, Australia
* Sydney, Australia
* Zurich, Switzerland
* Toronto, Canada
* Calgary, Canada

Thanks fastfokker....appreciate the acknowledgement.

The troube is ...some Dubai fans think this Economist survey was "bogus ": and "biased " ( think Dubai was # 69 or thereabouts in the ranking ) - even though , I recall correctly, some 40 factors were used and weighted to come up with the ranking fo the cities.

However, the Mercer Consulting group did a similar analysis....

The Mercer survey covered 218 cities and evaluated 39 quality of living factors..( could only find 2003 ) .

-Political and social environment (political stability, crime, law enforcement etc)
-Economic environment (currency exchange regulations, banking services etc)
-Socio-cultural environment (censorship, limitations on personal freedom etc)
-Medical and health considerations (medical supplies and services, infectious diseases, sewage, waste disposal, air pollution etc)
-Schools and education (standard of schools etc)
-Public services and transportation (electricity, water, public transport, traffic congestion etc)
-Recreation (restaurants, theatres, cinemas, sports and leisure etc)
-Consumer goods (availability of food/daily consumption items, cars etc)
-Housing (housing, household appliances, furniture, maintenance services etc)
-Natural environment (climate, record of natural disasters)


Cities were ranked with New York as the base city with a score of 100. Compared with the top four cities, which each score 106, the least desirable cities are Brazzaville and Pointe Noire in Congo which score 23 and 30.5 respectively, and Khartoum and Baghdad which each score 33.

Vancouver ........was ......#1 .......with a score of 106.

Dubai ...ranked.............. #94 ......with a ranking of 80.

http://across.co.nz/qualityofliving.htm

[MrDisco]

toronto is a boring city with boring architecture and no vision. and as for pollution have you seen lake ontario and our smog in the summer?

[masterhapposai]

toronto is a boring city with boring architecture and no vision. and as for pollution have you seen lake ontario and our smog in the summer?

but, at least..we have our freedom!

(what the canadian braveheart would look like, very tough looking :lol: )
http://www.davepearce.me.uk/images/web/DSC03211-braveheart.jpg


Seriously, that's the gripe with many people that posts about being to dubai. I looked into it, and now I'm just plain uncomfortable with going there. Due to their lack of rights.

[masterhapposai]

Toronto looks like a dump compared to this and i'll take this over Dubai anytime!!

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/6783/vancouver6001vf.jpg

yes, crack whores and heroine(sp?) abusers in vancouver are awesome!

http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/photos/heroin_inject010820.jpg
"There are literally hundreds of people shooting up in the alleys in the most filthy conditions imaginable"
(and I've seen it first hand, the safe injection centers only made it worse! now they got whole streets allotted to them, and it's invading family neighborhoods, you can find needles in playgrounds even on Victoria)

it's an alright place. I just don't like the fact that if a kid wanders in Vancouver chinatown they'll get owned by needles.

No such thing whatsoever in Toronto's chinatown. IMO you rate the city by it's cleanliness of it's cultural centers.



Btw, to counter gun crime arguments : you have to travel 30mins-1hr by subway/car to get shot at in Toronto. Unlike Vancouvers 2 minute walk to crime zones.

That shot on boxing day was an anomaly, all crime has continued to stay in the jane/finch area.

[anabeces]

or if you want your car jacked to collect the insurance $$$ just drive over to surrey.

i don't understand how vancouver can be top 10.

that list must be outdated or soemthing.

[R23]

thats some ignorant ass ****.
if all youve heard about dubai (or any city) is based on rfd, then dont bother posting.

although i do like toronto, it has so many bs problems that are easy to fix if people work to fix them, but theres too much red tape.
ya, its buildings are totally bland, no architecture.
the waterfront sucks.

end of day, id pick toronto just cuz its more multicultural and its in north america, although if i can get a job in dubai that pays very well...

[gei]

As pointed out by Poedua in the Dubai thread, Vancouver beats out Toronto:

http://www.7days.ae/feature/the-worlda-s-best-places-to-live.html

TOP TEN - The World’s Best Places to Live

* Vancouver, Canada
* Melbourne, Australia
* Vienna, Austria
* Geneva, Switzerland
* Perth, Australia
* Adelaide, Australia
* Sydney, Australia
* Zurich, Switzerland
* Toronto, Canada
* Calgary, Canada

Are we really comparing the 9th best city to live in in the entire world to dubai? That's like comparing a civic to a ferrari. Sure a civic can be made to look nice in some pictures too but c'mon....

[eelfliw]

They pay no taxes in Dubai. How do you beat that?

[fl4wless]

Are we really comparing the 9th best city to live in in the entire world to dubai? That's like comparing a civic to a ferrari. Sure a civic can be made to look nice in some pictures too but c'mon....


im assuming dubai is the ferrari...

[masterhapposai]

They pay no taxes in Dubai. How do you beat that?

what taxes you don't pay ends up as hidden charges within living costs

[masterhapposai]

thats some ignorant ass ****.
if all youve heard about dubai (or any city) is based on rfd, then dont bother posting.

although i do like toronto, it has so many bs problems that are easy to fix if people work to fix them, but theres too much red tape.
ya, its buildings are totally bland, no architecture.
the waterfront sucks.

end of day, id pick toronto just cuz its more multicultural and its in north america, although if i can get a job in dubai that pays very well...

We have many RFD'ers who have been to dubai. The citizenship issue is a *fact* as well, not opinion.

To whom are you addressing your reply?

[poedua]

im assuming dubai is the ferrari...

hardly.......when Dubai is ranked 69th in quality of life in the world by the Economist ...and 3 Canadian cities cracked the Top 10 as fastfokker pointed out.

And, Mercer also ranks Dubai n the 90's in it's ranking versus Vancouver as #1 ?

A coincidence Dubai has such mediocre results in 2 ( unrelated ) rankings ? ...i don't think so.

[Gordon]

Well in poorer nations than Canada, a "garbage honda" would appear to them how a Lamborgini appears to us.

So I guess at least in the poorer nations they crash bicycles and not Honda Preludes. :rolleyes:

Hey Fokker,

Yeah a matter of fact, i like the Honda prelude haha :cheesygri, so WHAT!

Woohh i bet dubai doesnt even have gun laws. In any city there will always be gangs and violence so you can't really compair Canada's crimes to the ones in Dubai.

There will always be idiots causing big crime scenes or killers so you can't say Dubai is more safe or not. Their rich so poeple might kill each other in style.

Drive-by's with Ak47s and Lamborginis. :lol:

[sixer]

hahaha, Dubai rocks!!! I don't have to pay taxes and if I'm a skilled carpenters I get $8.86 Cdn for an ENTIRE day's work, and if I'm a labourer I get $4.66 for a whole day! yay!!!


Workers riot at Dubai skyscraper project
Luxury building will be world's tallest skyscraper

Workers complain of low wages, miserable conditions
Mar. 22, 2006. 02:51 PM
ASSOCIATED PRESS

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates — Asian workers angered by low salaries and mistreatment smashed cars and offices in a riot that interrupted construction Wednesday of what is meant to be the world's tallest skyscraper — part of which will be a luxury hotel run by fashion designer Giorgio Armani.

The violence, causing damage estimated at almost $1.2 million Cdn, illustrated the growing unrest among foreign workers who are the linchpin of Dubai's building boom.

The rampage took place Tuesday night when some 2,500 workers on the emerging Burj Dubai tower and surrounding housing developments chased and beat security officers, then broke into temporary offices and smashed computers and files and destroyed about two dozen cars and construction machines, witnesses said.

When the labourers, who work for the Dubai-based firm Al Naboodah Laing O'Rourke, returned to the vast construction site Wednesday, they issued demands for better pay and employment conditions and refused to return to work. In a sympathy strike, thousands of labourers building a new terminal at Dubai International Airport also lay down their tools.

"Everyone is angry here. No one will work," said Khalid Farouk, 39, a labourer with Al Naboodah. Others said their leaders were asking for pay raises.

Skilled carpenters on the site earn just $8.86 Cdn per day, with labourers getting $4.66.

The riot was a rare outbreak of violence — but not the first sign of discontent among the foreign workers who form the overwhelming majority of private sector workers in most of the oil-rich countries of the Gulf. There have been strikes in recent months in Qatar and Oman. In April, Bangladeshi workers stormed their own embassy in Kuwait, protesting working conditions that human rights activists have denounced as "slave-like."

Millions of foreign workers have flooded into the Gulf countries, outweighing the population of citizens in Kuwait, the United Arab Emirates and Qatar. In Saudi Arabia, foreign workers make up about 21 per cent of the population of more than 26 million, but labour unrest among the workers is rare in the tightly controlled country.

In all the countries, the foreigners include professionals — doctors, scientists, oil workers and businessmen — skilled labourers such as electricians, and unskilled workers such as restaurant staff, maids and servants. Human rights groups have often decried abuse of low-paid foreign workers by their employers, particularly of women in domestic labour.

In the Emirates, where some estimates say more than three-quarters of the population of around five million people are foreigners, migrants from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, China and elsewhere have provided the low-wage muscle behind one of the world's great building booms.

Dubai, one of seven Emirates making up the country, hosts some 300,000 South Asians working on temporary contracts in the construction field alone, helping propel it from a primitive town of 20,000 five decades ago to a gridlocked metropolis of 1.5 million — only 12 per cent of whom are citizens.

But the workers complain that their employers often withhold pay. They enjoy few legal protections and no minimum wage, work in the extreme Gulf heat, and many of them live in military-style desert camps, with too few government inspectors to ensure proper living conditions.

Angry workers in the Emirates held more than two dozen strikes over unpaid salaries last year, mainly in Dubai. The Labour Ministry responded with a crackdown on companies, helping win back pay and other benefits for workers in some cases.

Labour officials said contract-breaching firms were embarrassing the image-conscious Emirates by attracting condemnation from the United Nations, the United States and Human Rights Watch.

On Wednesday, crowds of blue-garbed workers milled in the shadow of the grey concrete Burj Dubai, now 36 stories tall, while leaders negotiated with officials from the company and the Ministry of Labour.

An Interior Ministry official who investigates labour issues, Lt.-Col. Rashid Bakhit Al Jumairi, said the workers were petitioning Al Naboodah, one of the Emirates' biggest construction conglomerates, for overtime pay, better medical care and humane treatment by foremen.

"They are asking for small things," Al Jumairi said. "I promised them I would sit with them until everything is settled."

Later Wednesday, a spokesman for Al Naboodah Laing O'Rourke blamed the violence on "misinformation and misunderstanding with some of our workforce."

The spokesman, Mark Way, said in a statement that the "issues have now been addressed and resolved" with the workers. He said the employees were returning to work. He gave no details on how the workers' complaints were addressed, and workers' representatives could not be immediately reached to confirm they were returning to the job.

The unrest marred what otherwise appears to be smooth construction of the Burj Dubai, which is to be a spire-shaped, stainless-steel-skinned tower expected to soar far beyond 100 storeys. A section of the tower is to hold a 172-room luxury hotel operated by Armani, the Italian fashion designer. The $900 million Burj is due to be completed by 2008.

[eelfliw]

Wow! $8.86 a day for a skilled carpenter!

Imagine a house that takes 10,000 man hours to build. In Canada, that will cost $300,000 for labour (assuming skilled carpenters make $30/hr). In Dubai, $88,600. No wonder the houses there are huge. The price of a 1000 sq ft condo in Toronto can buy a big house in Dubai.

It's a heaven for the rich... not just the rich. Even the middle-income class in Canada can have a great time there as their hard earned money goes further in Dubai.

Canada is turning into a heaven for those relying on social hand-outs. No wonder the rich are moving out.

[FastFokker]

So the conclusion is, it sucks to be poor in Dubai, but it's not that bad in Dubai if you've got cash?

Sounds the same as Toronto. :razz:

I don't even want to compare the cities as they're not compareable.. as for tourist attractions, I think Dubai wins.. and if it doesn't right now, it will tomorrow.

Toronto is a fine place, it's like most other Canadian cities, just bigger.. that's about it though.

[fl4wless]

hardly.......when Dubai is ranked 69th in quality of life in the world by the Economist ...and 3 Canadian cities cracked the Top 10 as fastfokker pointed out.

And, Mercer also ranks Dubai n the 90's in it's ranking versus Vancouver as #1 ?

A coincidence Dubai has such mediocre results in 2 ( unrelated ) rankings ? ...i don't think so.

clearly you dont understand sarcasm...

When it comes to beauty/culture...those rankings dont really mean alot to me, especially since ive had the opportunity to travel through much of europe, asia, and australia. Every city has its beauty and culture...i dont see how they can be compared. Those rankings are concerning quality of life, education, etc etc etc.... not just beauty and growth, which is why the dubai thread was started...but ended in a battle of which place was better to live in.

Im proud to be canadian, and after travelling so much, i really do appreciate the high quality of life we have here. But, theres no reason to discredit the sucess some other countries are having right now.

Oh and about dubai...its amazingly modern and is becoming one of the most beautiful in the world. I do think however, their success is going to come to an end. After years of huge oil revenues, they never re-invested into their own people until recently. They probably could have been the next japan, but they sat on their hands and got rich while their people stayed poor and uneducated. Now they need the people from india/northamerica to work their because their own people cant do te job (perhaps this has something to do with their low rankings??). Unless Dubai succeeds at being a transportation hub to eastern Asia (I mean, who doesn't want to fly through the middle east?), its going down the tubes when the oil dries out. At least a couple thousand oil barons are rich, and they will have the tallest building in the world...but this is another issue!

[ynchu]

Reminds me of A-Train and SimCity...

[masterhapposai]

So the conclusion is, it sucks to be poor in Dubai, but it's not that bad in Dubai if you've got cash?

Sounds the same as Toronto. :razz:

I don't even want to compare the cities as they're not compareable.. as for tourist attractions, I think Dubai wins.. and if it doesn't right now, it will tomorrow.

Toronto is a fine place, it's like most other Canadian cities, just bigger.. that's about it though.

you can have a great time in toronto on $25k salary

Tell me the same is in dubai even at $50k+

[lithiumli]

nice pictures

[FastFokker]

you can have a great time in toronto on $25k salaryYeah I guess if you're living at home like most other young adults in Canada.

Stay-at-home trend on rise
http://winnipegsun.com/News/Canada/2006/03/22/1499483-sun.html
Parents living in a large city are more likely to keep their children in the nest longer.

Adult children living at home longer
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/03/21/home06031.html

Get out on your own, and $25k doesn't even go far in Halifax (cheap living), let alone in Toronto!

[mookieflookie]

As pointed out by Poedua in the Dubai thread, Vancouver beats out Toronto:

http://www.7days.ae/feature/the-worlda-s-best-places-to-live.html

TOP TEN - The World’s Best Places to Live

* Vancouver, Canada
* Melbourne, Australia
* Vienna, Austria
* Geneva, Switzerland
* Perth, Australia
* Adelaide, Australia
* Sydney, Australia
* Zurich, Switzerland
* Toronto, Canada
* Calgary, Canada


FYI, the updated list is right here:

http://www.economist.com/theworldin/business/displayStory.cfm?story_id=5149435&d=2006

The Economist's survey means diddly squat. Dubai, UAE is #73, while London, England is ranked #72. Shanghai is ranked # 77. New York is ranked # 47. Rome, #76.

The list means nothing. The Economist is simply giving its opinion. Obviously, London is one of the top cities in the world, yet The Economist ranks it #72. I would argue the case is the same for Dubai.

Quality of life is subjective. I don't share The Economist's definition of it. However, I think most people believe it to refers to how well people generally live from a material standpoint (i.e. salaries, cars, houses, technology, healthcare, urban development, etc.).

[mookieflookie]

Thanks fastfokker....appreciate the acknowledgement.

The troube is ...some Dubai fans think this Economist survey was "bogus ": and "biased " ( think Dubai was # 69 or thereabouts in the ranking ) - even though , I recall correctly, some 40 factors were used and weighted to come up with the ranking fo the cities.

However, the Mercer Consulting group did a similar analysis....

The Mercer survey covered 218 cities and evaluated 39 quality of living factors..( could only find 2003 ) .

-Political and social environment (political stability, crime, law enforcement etc)
-Economic environment (currency exchange regulations, banking services etc)
-Socio-cultural environment (censorship, limitations on personal freedom etc)
-Medical and health considerations (medical supplies and services, infectious diseases, sewage, waste disposal, air pollution etc)
-Schools and education (standard of schools etc)
-Public services and transportation (electricity, water, public transport, traffic congestion etc)
-Recreation (restaurants, theatres, cinemas, sports and leisure etc)
-Consumer goods (availability of food/daily consumption items, cars etc)
-Housing (housing, household appliances, furniture, maintenance services etc)
-Natural environment (climate, record of natural disasters)


Cities were ranked with New York as the base city with a score of 100. Compared with the top four cities, which each score 106, the least desirable cities are Brazzaville and Pointe Noire in Congo which score 23 and 30.5 respectively, and Khartoum and Baghdad which each score 33.

Vancouver ........was ......#1 .......with a score of 106.

Dubai ...ranked.............. #94 ......with a ranking of 80.

http://across.co.nz/qualityofliving.htm

You're the one who is biased. Go to a city before you judge it. It's pathetic how you are so mad that a foreign city is doing well. It looks like you've dedicated your life to "prove" Dubai is a bad city.

Anyone can go and find news articles to prove almost anything. Look, I have found one showing the opposite of what you are trying to tell us:

Singapore has been ranked 1st, Shanghai 5th, Beijing 8th and Hong Kong 10th in terms of governance according to Jones Lang LaSalle’s inaugural City Governance Survey. Other cities noted for their strong governance include Barcelona (2nd), Dubai (3rd), New York (4th), Budapest (6th), Brisbane (7th) and Auckland (9th).

The survey, which is part of Jones Lang LaSalle’s World Winning Cities research programme evaluated 33 major cities around the world. Overall, the survey found that there is no single winning model of city governance, with examples of good governance spread across the globe. Successful governance is not dependant on city size, geographical spread or economic maturity, but rather on a high quality of city management and strong marketing capacity.

“Singapore and Hong Kong ranked particularly well in terms of city management. We find that medium sized, wealthier cities tended to perform best on this index, as larger cities often experience congestion and high cost issues while smaller cities have to deal with the lack of real estate product and the limited scope of their markets in order to attract investors and corporate occupiers,” according to Mr Craig Plumb, Director of Occupier Research, Asia Pacific at Jones Lang LaSalle.

The best performers in terms of city marketing are those that are capable of building a shared “city-vision” and are characterised by a consistent approach across all marketing agencies with a mandate to profile and brand the city internationally. In this regard, New York came out tops for being active in all aspects of city marketing from the use of financial incentives to urban regeneration initiatives. The city is working to retain and enhance its global position through extensive planning efforts, communication campaigns and infrastructure developments.

“In Asia, the two major Chinese cities of Shanghai and Beijing are recognised for their strong marketing capabilities through international events. Shanghai recently held the successful Formula 1 and will be host to the 2007 Special Olympics and 2010 World Expo. Beijing played host to the 2004 ATP Tennis Tournament and the world will again focus on this capital city in the rundown to the 2008 Olympics,” notes Mr Plumb.

Governance has a critical influence on a city’s attractiveness to both investors and occupiers of real estate. Governance is however a difficult concept to define and quantify. Broadly speaking, governance can be defined as the process for making and implementing decisions. The Survey’s City Governance model measured seven aspects of governance – integrity, autonomy, stability, efficiency and effectiveness (that are grouped into a score for City Management), along with the efficiency and effectiveness of City Marketing programmes. For each of these indicators, a mix of quantifiable data and softer, qualitative information was collected.

Singapore was most noted for its physical integrity and city autonomy, together with Barcelona and Dubai. These three cities have a single administrative and political body whose geographical area of responsibility broadly matches the geography or city economy. Interestingly, Singapore and Dubai are “city states” and are characterised by their prominent regional position and cultural diversity. Furthermore, they have strong city autonomy too given their high capacity to allocate financial resources according to their spending priorities, as well as raising resources to fulfill the same priorities without depending on central government transfers. In both Singapore and Dubai, over 50% of local public sector expenditure is raised by local public sector revenue sources.

The Australasian cities of Sydney, Brisbane and Auckland have shown high financial stability over the past five years and together with London and Paris, have performed well from the financial stability aspect.

A city is “efficient” when it is capable of providing outputs such as financial management, service delivery or infrastructure investment, in the best way given the resources available. Outputs can be delivered through local and central government structures, Public-Private Partnerships and non-profit organisations. The efficiency of the mixed model (public/private) is very much aligned with the idea that good governance is a result of the concerted action of a network of players. Cities covered in the survey still largely support their budget position through public funds, with the exception of Hong Kong, which displayed a high level of efficiency with its mix of fixed investments strongly biased towards the private sector (about 25% public and 75% private). While the level of private investment is somewhat lower in the Chinese cities (Beijing, Guangzhou and Shanghai), they still score reasonably strongly on this criteria with an average of 50% public and 50% private resources.

“We believe that while different levels of government are clearly major players in enhancing the effectiveness of city governance, a network of different public, private and social organisations should collaborate to create an attractive business and living environment,” says Mr Plumb. “A number of cities have recognised the need to reduce levels of control and bureaucracy to allow more effective governance.”

City marketing programmes are another barometer of good governance. In many instances, cities have used major events to raise their profile in the international arena. Of notable mention is Barcelona which used the 1992 Olympic Games as a catalyst to renovate the city. After the Games, it has maintained and reinforced its image through a marketing strategy that “sells” the city as the leisure and cultural center of Europe.

Using buildings to market cities is another tactic used in city marketing programmes. Dubai epitomizes the use of the built environment as a catalyst for investment. It has built a major harbour, Jebel Ali which has become the cargo hub of the Gulf region used increasingly for trading with China by over 2,500 companies located in the tax free zone. It has also become a leading world tourist destination in part due to the “iconic” value attached to the Burj-Al Arab Hotel. In New York, the physical regeneration of the World Trade Centre area symbolises the re-birth of the city. Landmark developments like the Opera House in Sydney and the Petronas Twin Towers in Kuala Lumpur also serve to raise the international profile of these cities.

“We believe that good governance can be a crucial lever that cities can utilise to preserve or enhance their competitive strength and promote their real estate environment. A number of the “Rising Urban Stars” identified previously by our World Winning Cities research feature amongst the most successful experiences of city governance. This reconfirms the link between effective governance and emerging city competitiveness,” states Mr Plumb.

Dubai is a world class city with a cosmopolitan population from over 150 nations. Residents enjoy a crime free, tax free environment with sunshine all year round and an excellent standard of living.

Sport, leisure and entertainment play a prominent role in Dubai culture and lifestyle. Dubai is home to the world's top designer boutiques, restaurants, beaches and championship standard golf courses.

Stop hating.

I love Toronto, but I could dedicate my life to making it look like a crap city. Fact of the matter is, I love to see other people do well. Be happy for the progress of others, I say. Don't hate foreigners when they accomplish something.

[FastFokker]

Man flookie.. can you condense? :confused: Also that link doesn't work.

Just because you go to a city, doesn't mean you're a good judge of it. I've been to Toronto a few times and I've always hated it, but I still give it some credit as being a pretty good place to live. Just not my kind of place.

[mookieflookie]

Man flookie.. can you condense? :confused: Also that link doesn't work.

Just because you go to a city, doesn't mean you're a good judge of it. I've been to Toronto a few times and I've always hated it, but I still give it some credit as being a pretty good place to live. Just not my kind of place.

http://www.economist.com/theworldin/business/displayStory.cfm?story_id=5149435&d=2006

[mookieflookie]

hahaha, Dubai rocks!!! I don't have to pay taxes and if I'm a skilled carpenters I get $8.86 Cdn for an ENTIRE day's work, and if I'm a labourer I get $4.66 for a whole day! yay!!!

It is estimated that there may be as many as 250,000 "illegal" immigrants in Toronto alone. These immigrants are cruelly exploited by the employers. Most are paid at or below minimum wage.

I just wanted to demonstrate the double standard to you. Look at yourself in the mirror before denigrating others.

[FastFokker]

http://www.economist.com/theworldin/business/displayStory.cfm?story_id=5149435&d=2006
That link is not the same.. it's a scoring system of the best cities to visit for business purposes.

Wondering where to hold that conference in 2006? Or want to know what’s in store when touching down to meet a client? To help answer such questions, the Economist Intelligence Unit has developed a “business-trip index” for 127 cities worldwide, ranking the best—and worst—destinations for business travel.So it appears Vancouver is good to go for business and it's good to go to live.

GO VANCOUVER!

[mookieflookie]

That link is not the same.. it's a scoring system of the best cities to visit for business purposes.

So it appears Vancouver is good to go for business and it's good to go to live.

GO VANCOUVER!

It is the same. It says right on the article:

Where business is a pleasure
Jon Copestake

From The World in 2006 print edition


The world’s best and worst cities

It seems to me that this is the same as the original. Perhaps they have re-named it.

[FastFokker]

It is the same. It says right on the article:

It seems to me that this is the same as the original. Perhaps they have re-named it.*bangs head on keyboard*

They didn't rename it, it's a completely different study.. it has to do with which cities are the best for business people.

[Jebus]

I'm going to love it when the Dubai sackriders jump off once their boom wears off.

[fl4wless]

I'm going to love it when the Dubai sackriders jump off once their boom wears off.

why?

[aquariaguy]

why?

Cuz we'll laugh at them just like we laugh at the Leaf bandwagoners.

Does mookie work for Dubai's tourism industry or something?

[poedua]

You're the one who is biased. Go to a city before you judge it. It's pathetic how you are so mad that a foreign city is doing well. It looks like you've dedicated your life to "prove" Dubai is a bad city.

The size of your font doesn't make your case any more valid...by doing so, you run the risk that some might think it just makes it look as though you can't express yourself in a mature manner.

Biased? NO. Mad at Dubai ? NO. Not all. I'm simply saying that the greatness of a city isn't defined - as you suggest - to how high it's buildings are, how many palm trees there, how many highways, belly dancers, camels, beaches, ferarraris, hotels, etc. etc....and of course SAND as far as the eye can see.

I'm looking at objective economic and social and demographic data studied supplied by these non-partisan studies ...not all these " bling " issues of yours I just cited. " I'm simply citing some stats to provide another perspective - in response to all those endless pics we were deluged with as " proof" of how great Dubai is. Frankly, to conclude that Dubai is " great " primarily on the basis of pics , is a naive and immature means of assessment IMO. The stats come from 2 studies - one from the Economist, one from Mercer - both of which rank Dubai in a mediocre position ( #69 & #90 or so ) . Between them, they each looked at 40 and 39 factors of cities when ranking quality of life / standard of living.

Anyone can go and find news articles to prove almost anything. Look, I have found one showing the opposite of what you are trying to tell us:

Good for you....provide more articles to support your claim....just less...A LOT LESS...pics to prove your point.


Dubai is a world class city with a cosmopolitan population from over 150 nations. Residents enjoy a crime free, tax free environment with sunshine all year round and an excellent standard of living.

You're right there...the country is 80% foreigners. World class ? Very debatable. I'm not aware of any evidence of that. But, I'll bite. Define world class...and which other cities in the world are " world class" in your view ?

Crime, taxes. That's 2 factors. These studies looked at 40 factors in total ....perhaps Dubai sucks on many of the remaining38 factors.......ya think ?

Sunshine. Dubai has lots of sunshine. That logic and relevance speaks for itself. No comment required.

" Excellent standfard of living " by Arab standards perhaps ....#69 and 90 by world standards.


Sport, leisure and entertainment play a prominent role in Dubai culture and lifestyle. Dubai is home to the world's top designer boutiques, restaurants, beaches and championship standard golf courses.

Stop hating.

I'm not hating in any way. As cities go, I think Dubai is pretty average...not horrible, not great. I'm simply disagreeing with you about Dubai's reputation as a city. A strong disagreement on an issue has nothing to do with hate.

[poedua]

*bangs head on keyboard*

They didn't rename it, it's a completely different study.. it has to do with which cities are the best for business people.

Thank you for setting him straight.

Mercer and Economist were 2 different sudies - same general theme though.

[mookieflookie]

*bangs head on keyboard*

They didn't rename it, it's a completely different study.. it has to do with which cities are the best for business people.

Why does it say right at the top:

The world’s best and worst cities

followed by nothing else (i.e. it is a subtitle)

that is what i am referring to. continue banging your head on the keyboard.

[FastFokker]

Why does it say right at the top:

The world’s best and worst cities

followed by nothing else (i.e. it is a subtitle)

that is what i am referring to. continue banging your head on the keyboard.I don't want to be too harsh on you, just in case you truly are challenged, but right at the top it says:

Where business is a pleasure

Get it? Business! It's which cities are the most pleasurable for business people when travelling.

It's not about living there, it's about business people who travel to cities.. and which are better and which are worse, and WHY.
Canadian cities take the top three slots, with Vancouver just ahead of Calgary and Toronto. They are not the cheapest places to visit on business (Karachi in Pakistan holds that honour). But they have the right mix of ingredients to please the business traveller.I can't be much more specific.. if this doesn't resolve the issue with you, nobody can resolve it.

[mookieflookie]

I don't want to be too harsh on you, just in case you truly are challenged, but right at the top it says:

Where business is a pleasure

Get it? Business! It's which cities are the most pleasurable for business people when travelling.

It's not about living there, it's about business people who travel to cities.. and which are better and which are worse, and WHY.
I can't be much more specific.. if this doesn't resolve the issue with you, nobody can resolve it.

I agree - although I don't like that tidbit of a comment at the end.

Nevertheless, us non-Caucasian foreigners are used to bad treatment. Thanks for your time.

[mookieflookie]

The size of your font doesn't make your case any more valid...by doing so, you run the risk that some might think it just makes it look as though you can't express yourself in a mature manner.

Biased? NO. Mad at Dubai ? NO. Not all. I'm simply saying that the greatness of a city isn't defined - as you suggest - to how high it's buildings are, how many palm trees there, how many highways, belly dancers, camels, beaches, ferarraris, hotels, etc. etc....and of course SAND as far as the eye can see.

I'm looking at objective economic and social and demographic data studied supplied by these non-partisan studies ...not all these " bling " issues of yours I just cited. " I'm simply citing some stats to provide another perspective - in response to all those endless pics we were deluged with as " proof" of how great Dubai is. Frankly, to conclude that Dubai is " great " primarily on the basis of pics , is a naive and immature means of assessment IMO. The stats come from 2 studies - one from the Economist, one from Mercer - both of which rank Dubai in a mediocre position ( #69 & #90 or so ) . Between them, they each looked at 40 and 39 factors of cities when ranking quality of life / standard of living.



Good for you....provide more articles to support your claim....just less...A LOT LESS...pics to prove your point.




You're right there...the country is 80% foreigners. World class ? Very debatable. I'm not aware of any evidence of that. But, I'll bite. Define world class...and which other cities in the world are " world class" in your view ?

Crime, taxes. That's 2 factors. These studies looked at 40 factors in total ....perhaps Dubai sucks on many of the remaining38 factors.......ya think ?

Sunshine. Dubai has lots of sunshine. That logic and relevance speaks for itself. No comment required.

" Excellent standfard of living " by Arab standards perhaps ....#69 and 90 by world standards.


Sport, leisure and entertainment play a prominent role in Dubai culture and lifestyle. Dubai is home to the world's top designer boutiques, restaurants, beaches and championship standard golf courses.



I'm not hating in any way. As cities go, I think Dubai is pretty average...not horrible, not great. I'm simply disagreeing with you about Dubai's reputation as a city. A strong disagreement on an issue has nothing to do with hate.

Taking a page out of hagbard's book:

I'd respond but you're on my "ignore list". Given your past posts, I'll just say I disagree entirely with everything you said and leave it at that.

[aquariaguy]

Nevertheless, us non-Caucasian foreigners are used to bad treatment. Thanks for your time.

R u talking about Dubai?

[mookieflookie]

R u talking about Dubai?

No, I'm talking specifically with respect to melting pot cultures like your own.

[mookieflookie]

Hmm I wonder if the americans might think that Dubai is a threat to their security and drop a bomb on them? :confused: :lol: (/sarcasm)


That's an interesting comment. Who taught you to be so mean? I am trying to control my temper here. It's the kind of comment that's uncalled for - regardless of context. Those little icons don't make your comment any less stupid.

[Lonely Soldier Boy]

Here's the funny part.

If you had just posted "This is what makes Toronto great" as your topic, everyone would have nodded along.

This is a great troll. 9/10.

[ElvaSoShexai]

i once wrote an essay about how canada isn't as great a country to live in as it's hyped up to be and my hs english teacher failed it saying it was just a rant :mad: ......

[poedua]

Taking a page out of hagbard's book:

I'd respond but you're on my "ignore list". Given your past posts, I'll just say I disagree entirely with everything you said and leave it at that.

We simply agree to disagree - nothing more. . It's a forum. It happens every day. Suggest you get used to it. :)

Not everyone is going to view the world the way you do. And if you put people on your "ignore list " simply because they disagree with you ..well, that says more about you and your tolerance for debate than anything else IMO.

As for bringing hagbard up, hardly a role model, he's just returned fresh from a 2 week ban ....... his second.

[confused]

Nyc > *

[charger]

I'll live wherever I want thank you. I am planning on leaving Canada after I graduate, I just want to see some different stuff. I will come back, I just want to leave for awhile, Dubai may be just the place.

[gilboman]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Dubai tower workers riot over low pay Labourers on tall project smash offices, cars


http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1143067811412&call_pageid=968350072197&col=969048863851