[MRG] Car Piracy in China

[CARLiTO_]

http://paultan.org/wp-content/chinashit_srv.jpg
http://paultan.org/wp-content/chinashit_sparkqq.jpg

Link (http://paultan.org/archives/2004/12/05/china-pirates/)

[Sajjad]

I bought one at Pacific Mall :cheesygri

[runningdog]

That’s funny. From the title I thought you were talking about “pirates” that stole cars in Canada and took them to China. In my housing estate in China we had a care with a Marvin Starr (Toronto dealer) decal on the back. It was a loaded Sanoma if I remember correctly. Probably came out of the Pearson parking lot. :twisted:

We took pictures of Car and VIN and dealer decal and sent to the dealer. Heard nothing, so sent to the sales department and got an immediate reply inquiring about what we would be interested in buying. :(

Now we have a Mercedes with a Bolton Maine. I have also seen Point Clair, Quebec dealer stickers and from Texas, too.

[elty]

well, everyone start off copying. I mean, who will copy a car if that is fugly.

But I would avoid buying China car... they just dont seems safe enough

[technote]

with Korean cars slowly being accepted as "good value" cars (2006 Sonata being one of the first one that's considered as on-par with the Japanese), Chinese cars can probably take the lower end of the market with super cheap cars (< $10000-$15000???) in 5-10 years... I wouldn't be surprised...

[CompWizrd]

http://paultan.org/wp-content/chinashit_srv.jpg
http://paultan.org/wp-content/chinashit_sparkqq.jpg

Link (http://paultan.org/archives/2004/12/05/china-pirates/)
One of the articles i read about the Spark and QQ, mentioned that GM found the doors off the "pirated" QQ actually fit BETTER on the real Spark than the legit doors did...

They can't build their own safe car(witness that car that got a zero star crash rating), but they sure can copy another design.

[Sonbuster]

if they're cheap, and they work, why not get one. if they've got a billion people driving these cars, they've got to have some kind of standard.

[cooljack]

if they're cheap, and they work, why not get one. if they've got a billion people driving these cars, they've got to have some kind of standard.

Yes their standard is zero safety. Like you said they have one billion ppl, so their life value is worth nothing.

And no, they dont work. Btw are you chinese?

ps. only cheap ass, ****** chinese in China bought this car.

[LoookingForDeals]

There are also ones that look like a BMW as well. :D
But what they actually do is they don't design their own cars. They buy design plans for body, engine, and everything else, from other asian/european manufacturers and build to those plans.

But of course when those companies sell their plans, they are not the same and simplified. Also the chinese manufacturer will use cheaper materials as well as different and cheaper facilities to keep costs down. Buying designs from other manufactuers save them millions in R&D. All of that contribute to the unreliability and low quality factor, while maintaining the familiar appearance. But for some people, it would be the only car they can afford. Keep in mind, alot of people in most parts of China don't worry about things like safety as much as in Europe, Japan, and North America.

[gangus]

ps. only cheap ass, ****** chinese in China bought this car.

That`s Fcukin racist JACK as!!

[Hybrid88]

For those who understand the car industry and old enough to remember Hyundai's begginings (and those who are old enough to drive! as I often wonder how many RFD users who are in the car forum are old enough to drive - enough ranting) , the Chinese car makers are doing pretty doing the same as others in the car industry in the past decades. Geez, Hyundai still look/feel like Honda even after all these years of improvement. Its just a matter of copying success. This goes for Japanese cars as well - we know where they got their begginings.

[dmatthew]

Cooljack only says that because:

Chinese Made Car Crashtest (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8952150236341502052&q=chinese+car+crash+test)

While it is a derogatory statement...no one in their right mind would buy these cars unless they value money over safety

[mrken]

if they're cheap, and they work, why not get one. if they've got a billion people driving these cars, they've got to have some kind of standard.
I say this is another Chinese communist government conspiracy to cover up their population control plans. :twisted: Boost the economy and increasing the GDP per capita. :lol:

[hhh]

Cooljack only says that because:

Chinese Made Car Crashtest (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8952150236341502052&q=chinese+car+crash+test)

While it is a derogatory statement...no one in their right mind would buy these cars unless they value money over safety

wow, don't think anyone could survive that crash....

[cyberknight]

keep in mind that in China, going 50km/h is considered fast.

[CC2]

China is the land of "knock-off" items.

My uncle stopped by a roadside market and bought a chicken.
When they got home and cut it open, it was cardboard inside!
My uncle wasn't mad, he was impressed. My uncle is an artist, he said this guy could sell his fake chicken as art or window displays rather than as raw chicken.

[iExcel]

keep in mind that in China, going 50km/h is considered fast.
Which part of China are you referring to?

[JAC]

wow, don't think anyone could survive that crash....
With any luck, the airbag would knock you unconscious just before the steering wheel caved in your chest.

[CompWizrd]

wow, don't think anyone could survive that crash....
if that's the same test i've seen, it was at _35_ mph.

now picture 70mph, with 4 times the forces going on...

[divx]

let's leave safety out of it, most people (in china) wish they can afford those cars. i highly doubt anyone can crash that badly in a major city, damn I swear the traffic jam prevent anyone even touching the gas pedal.

[divx]

if that's the same test i've seen, it was at _35_ mph.

now picture 70mph, with 4 times the forces going on...
so? who care? their target market is definally not for you.

[Slimfast]

Yes their standard is zero safety. Like you said they have one billion ppl, so their life value is worth nothing.

And no, they dont work. Btw are you chinese?

ps. only cheap ass, ****** chinese in China bought this car.

You know what? Nevermind. I don't know why I wasted my time on you.

[MrDisco]

http://creativeadvertisingworld.com/bmw-7-vs-byd-f6/

And they say Hyundai rips off the competition...

[Spud72]

That is one thing that Chinese industry seem to be true world leaders at is ripping off ideas and counterfeiting.

[blizzah]

Why would you want to rip off a DAEWOO???

:confused:

[onecoolloser]

Haha... nice find. The Mercedes looks pretty... uh.. real.

[KawaiiTentacleBeast]

People who post this stuff all the time seriously need to get a life. Yes, a lot of stuff in China is copied. It has nothing to do with being Chinese and everything to do with being POOR. I don't know why this comes as such a suprise to you guys, but when you're poor, you don't give a **** about such legal niceties. You think the Japanese or Koreans didn't do the same thing back in the day? I'm sure the Chinese people living on less than $1 a day are all very sorry that some trillion dollar Western company's IP is being violated, even if it really costs them nothing (How many BMW customers do you think BYD has stolen?). One day China will be rich enough that they would stop doing it, and then some other poor country on it's way up will start. In the mean time, whatcha gonna to do about it?

[Spud72]

People who post this stuff all the time seriously need to get a life. Yes, a lot of stuff in China is copied. It has nothing to do with being Chinese and everything to do with being POOR. I don't know why this comes as such a suprise to you guys, but when you're poor, you don't give a **** about such legal niceties. You think the Japanese or Koreans didn't do the same thing back in the day? I'm sure the Chinese people living on less than $1 a day are all very sorry that some trillion dollar Western company's IP is being violated, even if it really costs them nothing (How many BMW customers do you think BYD has stolen?). One day China will be rich enough that they would stop doing it, and then some other poor country on it's way up will start. In the mean time, whatcha gonna to do about it?

I'm not going to do a darn thing about it but start laughing at the posts defending the "poor chinese industry" now! This was a great start! Thanks!

:lol:

[KawaiiTentacleBeast]

*Shrug* I'm not defending it, and it would be nice if it didn't happen, but if billions of people in Asia (not just China) are now out of poverty because of things like this, I'm laughing too.

I'm sure you pat yourself on the back every day for being lucky enough to be born here instead of there.

[MasterXan]

Why would you want to rip off a DAEWOO???

:confused:

LOL!!!!!

this is just pathetic but the BMW and BYD don't look alike.

[Spud72]

*Shrug* I'm not defending it, and it would be nice if it didn't happen, but if billions of people in Asia (not just China) are now out of poverty because of things like this, I'm laughing too.

Billions out of poverty? How do you define poverty? I'd be surprised if there are more than a few hundred million in Asia that are not living in poverty. And things like this don't help because they desperately want to export to the rest of the world, but many unscrupulous companies (not just auto by a long shot) thumb their nose at copyright infringement. Clothes, electronics, machinery and parts, you name it. They want their cake and eat it too and, unfortunately for their sake, they are slowing down their own progress for the long term.

I'm sure you pat yourself on the back every day for being lucky enough to be born here instead of there.
I thank god every day that I wasn't born in some god forsaken hellhole. China is better off large parts of the 3rd world and they are only slowing down their progress in the long run. If these unscrupulous companies would try to innovate and be good at it (like the Japanese have become) they'd be unstoppable.

[jcon]

Copyright is a fabrication of the West that stymies capitalism.

[Narci]

China won't go anywhere if it can't 'Innovate'. They also cannot become an economic superpower if it's always riding on the curtails of others.

[Spud72]

Copyright is a fabrication of the West that stymies capitalism.

I agree. Nothing should be protected. It should be a free for all so therefore there is no stimulus for creativity or innovation. It's not needed.

[jcon]

I agree. Nothing should be protected. It should be a free for all so therefore there is no stimulus for creativity or innovation. It's not needed.
Since when did copyright stimulate creativity and innovation? It does the reverse.

Copyright laws slows innovation. This idea that people won't invent or develop without it is juvenile and ill-informed.

[Spud72]

Since when did copyright stimulate creativity and innovation? It does the reverse.
What is the drive to develop and profit from your creation if it were only to get copied and you would reap nothing?

Copyright laws slows innovation. This idea that people won't invent or develop without it is juvenile and ill-informed.
Sure, you'd still get some of the most basic invention and innovation. However, for especially cutting edge technical innovation and invention, well, most of the developed planet would probably disagree with you.

Can you give a credible cite that backs up your assertion?

*edit* Remember, government funding is going to likely be insignificant if there was no copyright enforcement as the tax base would massively shrink.

[jcon]

10,000 years of innovation without copyright.

And your sources?

What would make you think that innovation would cease if copyrights were removed? In fact things would develop at a quicker pace.

To differentiate from the market you would need to develop a superior product. Thus creating innovation.

Where is the evidence that without copyright that innovation would stop?

[Spud72]

10,000 years of innovation without copyright.
LOL! Are you serious?

How far has mankind come in the past 200 years compared to that? How about 100? 50? 20?


And your sources?
How about:

Disease cures and treatments
Electronic innovation
Aircraft development
Auto development
Plastics
Food production advancements
and the list is almost endless.

Without copyright protection and licensing, you'd probably still be reading communist manifesto by candlelight as there would be no electric lights (Patent taken out by the businessman and entrepreneur Thomas Edison), tilling the fields with oxen (the mechanical steel plow and tractors were invented and patented by entrepreneurs) and have a life expectancy of 29 as there wouldn't be many of the most basic drugs and treatments we take today.

What would make you think that innovation would cease if copyrights were removed? In fact things would develop at a quicker pace.
See my above. Compare 10000 years of development and how far we've come in the technical age.

To differentiate from the market you would need to develop a superior product. Thus creating innovation. Why innovate if you're not going to gain? How are you missing that? What is the drive for innovation? Just to "feel good?"

Where is the evidence that without copyright that innovation would stop?
Commercially and entrepreneurial funded R&D would virtually cease which is the large driving force behind almost all technical advancements in the past 100 years and more. People invent to make money. How are they going to make money if it is just going to get immediately copied by the guy down the road who doesn't have any R&D?

[trixstar]

lol! this thread is wack! u gotta love the chinese.. ;)

[jcon]

Look this is a much bigger topic than this board can handle and certainly this thread. There is a significant amount of research which disagrees with your point of view, as well as mine.

My point is that this is not a black and white issue as you would like to believe.

And you sources? Nothing proves that copyright improves innovation.

And the upturn in innovation could be just as easily tied to the downturn in religion dominated politics rather than copyright.

Odd that new music still comes out yet the internet has made copyright virtually irrelevant?

[hagbard]

Could be worse, they could be selling us items poisoned with lead. Oh wait? They're probably trying to do with us what the pipes did for the Roman Empire.

[gherikill]

Copy, copy, copy + cut corners for a quick buck. This is the mentality over there. They do not care who they harm and this is partly because of the poverty, but it is also part of the culture.

[bobbings]

not impressed with the fakes from china. i wouldn't drive one if they gave me one for free. have they tested for safety on these cars?

[Spud72]

Look this is a much bigger topic than this board can handle and certainly this thread. There is a significant amount of research which disagrees with your point of view, as well as mine.

Can you cite some of your research?

And you sources? Nothing proves that copyright improves innovation.
Oh dear. You are the one making the assertion different from commonly perceived knowledge. You have to back it up.

And the upturn in innovation could be just as easily tied to the downturn in religion dominated politics rather than copyright.
Or, it could be tied to profiting, which considering religion is still a massive part of the planets population I'd think is more likely and religion won't feed the family or put a car in the garage nowdays.

Odd that new music still comes out yet the internet has made copyright virtually irrelevant?
Oh dear again.

So, let me get this straight - You're comparing the arts (which has virtually zero R&D costs) to the years it takes to make a treatment for cancer or develop the newest airliner or television set?

And do you honestly think that there would still be as many artists releasing music as now if they didn't get paid for it?

[hagbard]

not impressed with the fakes from china. i wouldn't drive one if they gave me one for free. have they tested for safety on these cars?

Don't think that smart car would have the same impact standards as the real one. But other than that, would be nice to have an electric city car.

[jcon]

Search:


Coase's Penguin, or Linux and the Nature of the Firm
Yochai Benkler


There are plenty of citations in that paper which refute your assertions.



Furthermore: Have you ever produced a music album? They are incredibly expensive to record and produce and yet they continue to do so. If you honestly believe that all musicians are in it for the money, then you've never been around musicians.

[Zephyr22b]

I think that the auto manufacturers sell their designs to manufacturers in China so that they make profit...it would be too expensive for people in china to buy the "real" car, so that means no sales for the manufacturers. However, I'm sure these "counterfeit" cars are much more affordable there and that would mean more sales. The "real" manufacturers would probably make more money this way.

[Spud72]

Coase's Penguin, or Linux and the Nature of the Firm
Yochai BenklerLinux, and open source programming in general while great, is more akin to the arts. R&D costs are minimal and hence the risks are low. I can think of other examples of intellectual property too - something that isn't a tangible, physical thing AND even the odd physical item. However, the vast, vast overwhelming majority is not.


Furthermore: Have you ever produced a music album? They are incredibly expensive to record and produce and yet they continue to do so. If you honestly believe that all musicians are in it for the money, then you've never been around musicians.
Wow! It costs money to produce an album? Holy smokes! Good thing that the artists don't mind giving away all their songs for free.

Who said all of them are in it for the money? Of course they are not. I would hope artists are in it for the joy of writing and expressing their music. But, do you think Sheryl Crow would rather have another part time job to pay the bills? Or, the ones who do have other jobs out of necessity wouldn't? If they didn't make money off their music that is exactly what would happen. But, we're not discussing the arts here so much, I'm dealing with Technology and tangible, producible items. Like cars. And you gross over generalizing comment that copyrights are evil and bad.