How do we get a book banned as "Hate Speech"?

[ironmaiden]

I perused the following book and find it to be so very anti-Islamic that I would consider it to be hate speech.

The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades)
http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/item.asp?Item=978089526013&Catalog=Books

About the Book - Islam expert Robert Spencer reveals Islam's ongoing, unshakable quest for global conquest and why the West today faces the same threat as the Crusaders did-and what we can learn from their experience.

Other books by this guy include - Islam Unveiled: Disturbing Questions About the World's Fastest-Growing Religion

These books paint Islam in such a negative light that readers will feel fear and hatred towards the whole religion.

So how can we get it banned?

[CanadianMike]

i dont think books should be banned, personally.

[ironmaiden]

Are not anti- Jewish books banned?
Where are the writings or Ernst Zundel?
Were these not banned?

So - does Canada ban anti- Jewish books but not ban anti-Islamic books?

Hypocritical - no?

[steve.m]

maybe ask a leader at muslim school or preacher to write a letter to the book store and send a copy of the letter to police for them to investigate the claim of hate literature?

[ChinpokoMon]

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/8487/089526013101sclzzzzzzz6un.jpg

[Twitch1977]

If you don't like it then don't read it. You make your choice and we'll make ours.

T

[biosh]

Some book banning resources (http://www.booksatoz.com/censorship/banned.htm) to get you started.

I think we should ban the Bible - all that eye-for-an-eye stuff has been an inspiration to hate that still soils the world to this day!

Maybe we can organize local book burning events for RFD members...

[ironmaiden]

So you want people to read Anti-Islamic literature?
Do you want anti-Islamic feelings to grow?

This book is nothing bet fear-mongering which will increase paranoia and hatred. Is this what we need?

As for banning the Bible - yes the Old Testament - the foundation of the Jewish religion and the foundation for the Christian religion are "not very nice". The Jewish Talmud (maybe Torah as well) is very negative and if you read it supposedly it says it is OK to do whatever you want to do to people that are not Jewish because they are not "humans" if they are not Jewish.

... but according to Canadian Hate Speech laws - religious books are exempt from the Hate Speech laws. Religious books can say whatever they want - even if it promotes hatred.

[Twitch1977]

So you want people to read Anti-Islamic literature?
Do you want anti-Islamic feelings to grow?

No, I want people to read whatever they feel like reading. If I wanted my media intake controlled I'd move to China

T

[go leafs]

it has pretty good reviews on amazon.com...

[pgcanred]

I perused the following book and find it to be so very anti-Islamic that I would consider it to be hate speech.

The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades)
http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/item.asp?Item=978089526013&Catalog=Books

About the Book - Islam expert Robert Spencer reveals Islam's ongoing, unshakable quest for global conquest and why the West today faces the same threat as the Crusaders did-and what we can learn from their experience.

Other books by this guy include - Islam Unveiled: Disturbing Questions About the World's Fastest-Growing Religion

These books paint Islam in such a negative light that readers will feel fear and hatred towards the whole religion.

So how can we get it banned?


But is it inaccurate?

[emptypocket]

i dont think books should be banned, personally.

I second this. Although the content of a lot of books out there sickens me, I would much rather live in a society with free speech than have what we're allowed to say controlled by the government.

[GTA_]

Anyone with an IQ of 80+ will not take that book seriously, and those with an IQ of 80 and below do not control public opinion... Forget about that stupid book.

[unleashed]

Anyone with an IQ of 80+ will not take that book seriously, and those with an IQ of 80 and below do not control public opinion... Forget about that stupid book.

well said....

[ironmaiden]

Anyone with an IQ of 80+ will not take that book seriously, and those with an IQ of 80 and below do not control public opinion... Forget about that stupid book.

But there are a lot of people out there with an IQ <80 that have guns.

Look back to see what Canadians did to the Japanese during WWII.
What happens to Muslims if the current US vs Muslims situation worsens and people get more paranoid due to the hate speech communicated by this book?

The reasons we have laws is to prevent stupid people from doing stupid things.

[go leafs]

What happens to Muslims if the current US vs Muslims situation worsens and people get more paranoid due to the hate speech communicated by this book?


http://media.bestprices.com/content/dvd/40/211848.jpg

[lip1978]

I like how you mentioned the Old Testament, but not the Quran. I call Hate Speech!

[Rehan]

I perused the following book and find it to be so very anti-Islamic that I would consider it to be hate speech.That by itself does not make it hate propaganda according to Canadian law. See http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/c-46/41491.html

[lip1978]

Does it call for people to harm people who follow Islam? I think that's the basis of hate crimes/literature. Or is it that you don't agree with that it says?

[bokep]

whoever wrote the book is some nazi from the deep south, just ignore him.

[go leafs]

He's not against Islam itself, btw, just against the Jihad and oppresive elements of the faith (especially against non-Muslims in Muslim countries)

Q: Do you hate Muslims?
RS: Of course not. Islam is not a monolith, and never have I said or written anything that characterizes all Muslims as terrorist or given to violence. I am only calling attention to the roots and goals of jihad violence. Any Muslim who renounces violent jihad and dhimmitude is welcome to join in our anti-jihadist efforts. Any hate in my books comes from Muslim sources I quote, not from me. Cries of "hatred" and "bigotry" are effectively used by American Muslim advocacy groups to try to stifle the debate about the terrorist threat. But there is no substance to them.

It is not an act of hatred against Muslims to point out the depredations of jihad ideology. It is a peculiar species of displacement and projection to accuse someone who exposes the hatred of one group of hatred himself: I believe in the equality of rights and dignity of all people, and that is why I oppose the global jihad. And I think that those who make the charge know better in any case: they use the charge as a tool to frighten the credulous and politically correct away from the truth.

Am I "anti-Muslim"? Some time ago here at Jihad Watch I had an exchange with an English convert to Islam. I said: "I would like nothing better than a flowering, a renaissance, in the Muslim world, including full equality of rights for women and non-Muslims in Islamic societies: freedom of conscience, equality in laws regarding legal testimony, equal employment opportunities, etc." Is all that "anti-Muslim"? My correspondent thought so. He responded: "So, you would like to see us ditch much of our religion and, thereby, become non-Muslims."

In other words, he saw a call for equality of rights for women and non-Muslims in Islamic societies, including freedom of conscience, equality in laws regarding legal testimony, and equal employment opportunities, as a challenge to his religion. To the extent that they are, these facts have to be confronted by both Muslims and non-Muslims. But I make no apologies: it is not "anti-Muslim" to wish freedom of conscience and equality of rights on the Islamic world -- quite the contrary.

[galanz]

i dont think books should be banned, personally.

Agreed, the whole hate speech thing is a crock...

[Rehan]

He's not against Islam itself, btw, just against the Jihad and oppresive elements of the faith (especially against non-Muslims in Muslim countries)Careful there. He said he's not anti-Muslim, but he didn't say he's anti-Islam. He wants Muslims to abandon certain aspects of Islam that he hates, kind of in the same way Christians have reformed the way they follow Christianity in recent centuries.

[go leafs]

Careful there. He said he's not anti-Muslim, but he didn't say he's anti-Islam. He wants Muslims to abandon certain aspects of Islam that he hates, kind of in the same way Christians have reformed the way they follow Christianity in recent centuries.

Sorry, I guess I was mixing the terminology too loosely

[poedua]

Some book banning resources (http://www.booksatoz.com/censorship/banned.htm) to get you started.

I think we should ban the Bible - all that eye-for-an-eye stuff has been an inspiration to hate that still soils the world to this day!

Maybe we can organize local book burning events for RFD members...

Ban the Bible ? With Stephen Harper as PM ? Gutsy call ! :)

Must confess i'm not up on my Bible studies, but I recall that the whole "eye for an eye " thing was more a law of retaliation principle meant for states, and not so much for individuals. Actually, I'd always heard that Jesus had challenged that saying during his sermon on the mount. I always thought that was where the " turn the other cheek " phrase came from...from an old Daily Bible Study book ( from the in-laws ) ....

"You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' But I say to you, ‘Do not resist injuries but whoever strikes you on the right cheek turn to him the other as well’" (Matthew 5:38-29 )

Appreciate your saracsm though.

On banning ..I'm generally against it, as it is a slippery slope of an issue...I'm sure many would try to make cases to ban books on gays, Christians etc.- which is ridiculous.

However, I do firmly believe in principle that any book that is involed in advocating genocide or publicly inciting hatred verbally or in print - should be banned .The "no-brainer" is all books advocating genocide or extermintion or cleansing ( they should be banned ) ......but when it comes to " inciting hatred "- defining " hatred " is going to be tough - an virtually impossible intrpretation to define when considering the banning of books IMO.

[Casanova]

should anti-semitic books be banned? what about anti-semitic websites?

[effie]

"Did you ever hear anyone say, 'That work had better be banned because I might read it and it might be very damaging to me'?"
-Joseph Henry Jackson

I can understand your concern about this book, based on what I've read in this thread. Some people who read it might only scan it, and arm their understanding with its bulletpoints. Indeed, that is a scary scenario.

I do not understand, however, how restricting reading material will stop anyone from hording bullets if that is what he or she choses to do. I do not agree that restricting freedom is the way to go.

[fakishan]

Anyone with an IQ of 80+ will not take that book seriously, and those with an IQ of 80 and below do not control public opinion... Forget about that stupid book.

are you sure ;)

[fakishan]

should anti-semitic books be banned? what about anti-semitic websites?

No they shouldn't, but we're making an exception for the Jews, because they are the only victims in this world. :rolleyes:

edit: actually, they're just a lot smarter than us when it comes to defending their rights. they've learned from their lessons, we didn't.

[poedua]

"Did you ever hear anyone say, 'That work had better be banned because I might read it and it might be very damaging to me'?"
-Joseph Henry Jackson

I can understand your concern about this book, based on what I've read in this thread. Some people who read it might only scan it, and arm their understanding with its bulletpoints. Indeed, that is a scary scenario.

I do not understand, however, how restricting reading material will stop anyone from hording bullets if that is what he or she choses to do. I do not agree that restricting freedom is the way to go.

Good point. Perhaps the rule of thumb should be " publish everything " and then " question everything "

Only books advocating genocide should be banned by "default"....anything after that is a grey area...i.e what is hate ( ? ) .

[ironmaiden]

Think of it this way.

We try to stop "bird flu" virus from spreading.
Why not stop "thought or idea virus" from spreading?
We need to quarantine the idea before it causes harm.

People know that they need to use condoms to prevent STDs. Yet people don't and they get sick.

[Binden]

haha you are an idiot.

do you any idea what free speech is? i dont think you realize the importance of it.

[biosh]

We try to stop "bird flu" virus from spreading.
Why not stop "thought or idea virus" from spreading?
We need to quarantine the idea before it causes harm.

RFD's scariest idea so far this year!

:eek:

(PS: I hope you were just kidding - if so ROFL LOL ... )

[lip1978]

Yay for hyprocracy.
ironmaiden. You're against a book that dissects Islam, however, you feel that discussing the Talmud in a negative light on this messageboard doesn't deserve the same treatment.
Perhaps you should be banned for your comment. By your rules of course.

[biosh]

*****************************
ALERT!

We have had a negative thought outbreak on a deal discussion forum!

Dispatch the MOP-IT* team for clean-up and quarantine.

Repeat -- negative ideas are spreading!

ALERT!
*****************************


(*Ministry Of Positive Ideas & Thoughts)

[FastFokker]

So how can we get it banned?
Sorry, cross my name off the "we" list.

[slc95]

I think we should look beyond just books and ban all religions and religious paraphenalia. Look at all the wars and fights we'd stop! Although I guess that would put an end to catholic schoolgirl pron...

[Shook1s]

Woah ... Woah ... Woah ... Screeeech ... Slow Down ... TIME OUT!!!

I will be honest and say I have little or no knowledge of any of the faiths discussed so far, but on the picture with quotes from the book. Is this author making up these facts? If he is simply highlighting things that ARE infact part of the religious text ... how can it be considered hate literature?

Clearly all religions have some areas that are a little extreme. If we sit here and sweat all of the details we are missing the point.

Just a thought.

[z3r0]

Woah ... Woah ... Woah ... Screeeech ... Slow Down ... TIME OUT!!!

I will be honest and say I have little or no knowledge of any of the faiths discussed so far, but on the picture with quotes from the book. Is this author making up these facts? If he is simply highlighting things that ARE infact part of the religious text ... how can it be considered hate literature?

Clearly all religions have some areas that are a little extreme. If we sit here and sweat all of the details we are missing the point.

Just a thought.

QFT.

[R23]

hmm just by reading the front cover i think its a little too biased for a major book store like amazon to carry.

i did read your posts though, and its true, if you ban this, then you can ban that, and then it may go as far as having your favourite maxim mag banned, or something stupid like that in 20 yrs.
so i guess in that case i wouldnt ban it.

the problem and solution to all our problems is religion.
sometimes i kinda wish everyone had the same religion (a totally new one, something liberal, and able to change according to our growth as a developing human race), i think that would solve most of the problems.

the real problem though is there will always be a small amount of people who will always be haters, hating on things different (and therefore threatening) to them. This happens in every country, and every religion. and sadly its not just limited to race and religion.

I used to think that, 'wow its the 21st century, look how far we've come!' now i just hope 100 or 200 years from now we're a little farther from where we currently are. not much has changed since most of us were born, 20-30 yrs makes little difference, lets hope our grandchildren will live in a more tolerant world.

[Shook1s]

QFT.

QTF??? What does that mean???? :confused:


Isn't if funny how people go crazy over the small differences in their religions but refuse to observe the common ideals across all of them. People are supposed to live a free and prosperous life, to me these "texts" are simply to aid in the understanding and act as rough guides.

Again, if you can comfortably say this guy who is writing the book doesn't know his stuff for reason XYZ then why do you care what he is saying. I say if you can TRUELY QUESTION YOUR RELIGION and still find answers in it... then you have something you can have FAITH in.


More random thoughts to come....

[go leafs]

QFT = quoted for truth

[bokep]

Woah ... Woah ... Woah ... Screeeech ... Slow Down ... TIME OUT!!!

I will be honest and say I have little or no knowledge of any of the faiths discussed so far, but on the picture with quotes from the book. Is this author making up these facts? If he is simply highlighting things that ARE infact part of the religious text ... how can it be considered hate literature?

Clearly all religions have some areas that are a little extreme. If we sit here and sweat all of the details we are missing the point.

Just a thought.
ehh just look at the points in the cover.. do they look like facts?

imo the guy's a moron as is anyone who thinks this book is credible in any way, but he shouldnt be banned unless he starts a blatant campaign denouncing islam like hitler did to jews.

[Shook1s]

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/8487/089526013101sclzzzzzzz6un.jpg

Are you saying ... no eveidence of any of this stuff can be found???

If that be the case ... this guy should be exposed.

Otherwise ... hey he is just pointing out facts.

[danfromwaterloo]

Think of it this way.

We try to stop "bird flu" virus from spreading.
Why not stop "thought or idea virus" from spreading?
We need to quarantine the idea before it causes harm.

People know that they need to use condoms to prevent STDs. Yet people don't and they get sick.

First of all, you can't stop ideas. The more you try and stop an idea, the more people cling to it.

First, "hate guides" have to advocate actual hate, and not politically incorrect humour.

Where is the line between "every muslim wants to jihad....hahahaha" and "every muslim wants to jihad *frownie face*"

The fact is, what is the purpose of such a book: to entertain, albeit tastelessly, or to actually advocate hatred, and promote violence and transgressions against a race or religion.

Mein kampf - hate
Ernst Zundel - hate
Jolly McJerkoff's Big Book of Muslim Jokes - not so much.

[FastFokker]

Mein kampf - hate
I actually want to read Mein Kampf, but I'm afraid of what kind of chain of events would arise from me requesting it from Chapters.

When someone requests a book like that, that information MUST be passed onto some kind of governmental agency. I would truly be surprised if it didn't (but it would be hard to prove it doesn't, if even possible).

I'm far from a hate monger, I support everyone.. I just want to know what people are referencing when they speak of it. I find much ability in becoming a more tolerant person by witnessing the extreme intolerances of others.

Anyone have a suggestion of how to get the book, without being traceable?

[65505201]

I actually want to read Mein Kampf, but I'm afraid of what kind of chain of events would arise from me requesting it from Chapters.

When someone requests a book like that, that information MUST be passed onto some kind of governmental agency. I would truly be surprised if it didn't (but it would be hard to prove it doesn't, if even possible).

I'm by far a hate monger, I support everyone.. I just want to know what people are referencing when they speak of it. I find much ability in becoming a more tolerant person by witnessing the extreme intolerances of others.

Anyone have a suggestion of how to get the book, without being traceable?

Lol. You mean

"I'm far from a hate monger", right?

[dealguy2]

The only person who I feel comfortable with determining what I should be allowed to read is me.

[FastFokker]

Woops.. typing without reading what I'm saying! *blush* (Edited now)

[ans2]

I used to think that, 'wow its the 21st century, look how far we've come!' now i just hope 100 or 200 years from now we're a little farther from where we currently are. not much has changed since most of us were born, 20-30 yrs makes little difference, lets hope our grandchildren will live in a more tolerant world.

Ya, I guess nothing has changed. It was about 55 years ago when Japanese Canadian were first allowed to vote in Canada. But that is more than your 30 years.

How do you think Indo Canadians were treated 30 years ago ? Who would of thought that BC would have elected an Indo Canadian Premier ? I wonder how many minorities worked in any of the professions thirty years ago. Or how many were partners in any of the major accounting firms. Thirty years ago you had to be a white Anglo Saxon male to be on the board of any major Canadian corporation. Marginally better today but unheard of thirty years ago.

Margret Thatcher was the first woman leader of any of the G 6/G 8 countries. Ten/fifteen years ago. Colin Powell was the first Black American head of the Joint Chief of Staff. During WWII most Black American's barely made it beyond latrine or cook duty. The right wing Republicains are even taking about Secretary of State Condelesa (spelling) Rice for President. Far cry from segregation in the 60's. Do you think that Martin Luther King would have thought there was some progress ?

The Berlin Wall was still up. East German guards were still shooting East Germans who tried to escape into West Germany. Now Germany has the second woman leading of the the G8 counties and she is formerly from East Germany. The South African Secret Police (whatever their official name was) were still dropping African dissidents off planes into the Atlantic without parachutes off course. They must have thought .... I better not say it or someone might take it seriously and ban me for life. I wonder if they were white or black dissidents. Can't recall exactly what the Russians were doing in Poland. They sure did some not so nice things in Hungary in the 1950's. I wonder what was happening in Siberia 30 years ago. Then there was Tiannamen Square (excuse my spelling). I guess they just did it to their own citizens so that doesn't count in this discussion.

People were still disappearing in the night in Argentina and Chile and the poeple who were disappearing in Iraq. The same in much of central America. Which portion of the population do you think was disappearing ?

The retiring US Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Conner was offered a job as a secretary after graduating second in her law class at Stanford. She has come a long ways. And now the US Senators are saying, if only we can find another Sandra Day. Canada now has a female Chief Justice. It was not so long ago that our Supreme Court had a bunch of white guys (apologies to the white guys).

I don't need to say what our police force looked like thirty years ago. Calgary's last Chief of Police was Christine Silverberg (spelling). That would not have been possible 30 years ago.

There sure wasn't any debate on Gay marriages. There was not a Canadian Constitution. People openly referred to people with a gay orientation as ...
I will get banned if I used the word. They had equally kind words to refer to people from most of south east asia, from eastern Europe (Poland) and Italy. Did you ever watch Archie Bunker ? It was not so long ago that Italians and east Europeans changed their names to English sounding ones.

We have a long ways to go with improving the lives of our Native People. But at least we are talking and trying to find a solution that is hopefully better than residentual schools.

Need I go on. But not much has happened in the last thirty years.

[Happy13178]

Is the content inaccurate?

[go leafs]

here is the relevant piece of law, fwiw


(3) No person shall be convicted of an offence under subsection (2)

(a) if he establishes that the statements communicated were true;
(b) if, in good faith, the person expressed or attempted to establish by an argument an opinion on a religious subject or an opinion based on a belief in a religious text;
(c) if the statements were relevant to any subject of public interest, the discussion of which was for the public benefit, and if on reasonable grounds he believed them to be true; or
(d) if, in good faith, he intended to point out, for the purpose of removal, matters producing or tending to produce feelings of hatred toward an identifiable group in Canada...

[Kurtz7834]

If you believe in freedom of speech, you believe in freedom of speech for everyone, regardless of whether or not you agree with it or think it's hateful crap.

I don't believe in banning books, and if you support freedom of speech, you don't either. If you don't believe in freedom of speech, I'm not going to waste my time arguing further.

[Casanova]

could any muslim confirm if it is true?

[ill_mango]

Meh, I wouldn't want any book to be banned, I like to see all sides of things.

As for if it is true or not, I am sure you can interpret parts of the Qu'ran to show it is true, but you could do that for any religious book I am sure.

[biosh]

Some of the guys are organizing a big book burning party this weekend in the GTA...

BYOB!