bathtub and wall liners

[blexann]

Our tiled wall is comming apart and I was thinking of getting one of those bathroom liners. Anyone have any advice on these products ?

[gr8dlr]

You may not want to hear it but water must have gotten behind there and likely mold could be growing. Better to rip it out, use the appropriate board for showers and then use your wall liner or re-tile it. Wall liners BTW are not necessarily cheap.

[blexann]

You may not want to hear it but water must have gotten behind there and likely mold could be growing. Better to rip it out, use the appropriate board for showers and then use your wall liner or re-tile it. Wall liners BTW are not necessarily cheap.


This the second time this has happened. I dont understand why the builder used regular drywall in the bathroom in the first place? I fixed a small area myself last time about 7 years ago but this time the area is bigger - about 3 ft by 2 ft

I have no problem ripping it out - but should I go with tiles again or the wall liner ?

what are the aproximate prices of an installed wall liner ?

thanks

[Keelie]

This the second time this has happened. I dont understand why the builder used regular drywall in the bathroom in the first place? I fixed a small area myself last time about 7 years ago but this time the area is bigger - about 3 ft by 2 ft

I have no problem ripping it out - but should I go with tiles again or the wall liner ?
what are the aproximate prices of an installed wall liner ?

thanks

good question. i have a liner and have been thinking of going with tiles. now i wonder which is the best choice.

[CheapScotsman]

if you do the corner seal correctly, liners will probably be more leak proof than tile, however, tile is nicer and has better resale value.

The proper way to do this is to rip out the old drywall (all of it completely around the shower/bathtub area ... front/back and center section). Lay vapour barrier / plastic (make sure it overlaps the tub edge so that water drains down and into the tub) then put cement board down (overlapping the tub edge) then lay your liner and/or tile (then grout) on top of that ... make sure your studs are on 16" centers min.

I wouldn't use drywall or green drywall (for wet areas) and probably not even denshield (the juries out on this one) ... concrete board.

[CSK'sMom]

Scotsman is right. We are just finishing up a complete bathroom remodel for hubby's parents. We ended up taking the whole room out to the studs. Replacing the walls and tiling including new taps, a new sink and a granite tile countertop. All because FIL needed grab bars installed and the studs couldn't be found. (it turned out that the studs were done completely wrong! and were not on even centers) Cement board is required around the bottom adjacent to the tub. Cement board is rated at waterproof, greenboard is only water resistent. Personally, my first choice is always tile. Our oldest's bathroom has an acrylic wall surround that is coming out and being replaced with tile.

[FastFokker]

Blexann you really should determine where the water is coming from.. perhaps it's a leaky pipe in the wall that's causing the damage?

Regardless of appearance, fixing that should be of concern to you also.. as if it is a leak at a connection, it could fail totally and cause major problems.

If you know forsure it was just a bad grout job and water is seeping behind, then that's another story. But I'm suspicious of hearing this is the second time having water damage.

(That said, if you can fix the problem.. stay with tiles, looks A LOT nicer and holds much more value)

[blexann]

Blexann you really should determine where the water is coming from.. perhaps it's a leaky pipe in the wall that's causing the damage?

Regardless of appearance, fixing that should be of concern to you also.. as if it is a leak at a connection, it could fail totally and cause major problems.

If you know forsure it was just a bad grout job and water is seeping behind, then that's another story. But I'm suspicious of hearing this is the second time having water damage.

(That said, if you can fix the problem.. stay with tiles, looks A LOT nicer and holds much more value)

I'm pretty sure it's comming from a poor grout job - it was me did that the grout job the first time - I remember having to mix the grout with water maybe I did not get the measurements correct ? dont know - is there ready to apply grout that I can use ?

[FastFokker]

Yes I beleive there are ready-mixes, though I've not used them.

Your measurements were probably correct (its only water, and hard to screw up), but make sure you mix it thoroughly for the proper time (5mins?) then allow it to setup (15mins I think?) before using it.

As well.. be sure you are using quality tile adhesive and that you are using the proper thickness.

Oh yeah, use proper spacers.

It's odd you had such water damage merely from bad grouting.. if you are confident that is the cause, perhaps you can do it over again as you are now more experienced.

DIY is very affordable (vs. professional) and having tiles are very much more visually appealing and valuable in resale.

Wall liners DO work.. but they are ugly and people really don't want them when purchasing a home (if that's of value to you).

[gr8dlr]

Holmes on Homes used to endorse a membrane shower kit which was guaranteed waterproof and easy to install. I think I found the company , you can buy membrane for walls only if needed.

Home Depot carries it I think.

http://www.schluter.com/english/products/2002/sectionf/overview-f/section-f.html

[blexann]

I am going to try and tackle this myself.

I am going to replace the damaged area only. I will start by removing the tiles. I will then remove the rotten/wet drywall and replace with Cement (or anyother kind of waterproof) board.

1. how do I do remove the the existing good tiles without breaking them ?

2. Also, are there horizontal studs behind the wall or only vertical ?

2 vertical
studs
----|-------x-----------|---
----|---new board------|---
----|-------x-----------|---

where do I fasten the x's to

[CheapScotsman]

You can use a scraper (kinda like a putty knife) or a small prybar to get behind the tile and try and "pop it" off the wall. Sometimes it works and other times you break the tile.

To frame a wall: There should be a 2x4 laid flat running along the floor with another 2x4 (laid flat) running across the top of the "studs" (which are 2x4x) running vetically. There will be 2 2x4s 90 degrees to each other in the corners. The 2x4 should be 16" mininum horizontally separated .. the bathtub should be on the floor and have been "pushed up" against this rough framing.

After ripping all the existing drywall down to the studs (from the top of the bathtub to the ceiling) ... The cement board sheets will need to be mounted such that the "edges" of the sheets are in the middle of the studs ... so that the edges of adjacent sheets share the stud (and are screws into the same stud) ... just rememebr that all edges of the concrete board need to be supported and screwed into a stud (every 8" or so would be best ... use the special cement board screws).

[FastFokker]

If there's water damage behind the tiles, they should pop off real easy.. just don't let them fall on the floor or anywhere they might break.

Go easy, but if a tile breaks while prying it off.. well that just happens. Hopefully you have some extras, or can steal some from an inconspicuous area, or just buy a few more from the store.

Once you get the new tiling in, also it may be a good choice to re-grout the entire bath area.. you can buy a special tool which will scrape most of the old grout (tool is cheap, probably $5?), then regrout the entire area good. Make sure you are using the proper applicator as well, and apply it on an 45d angle to the spaces between the tiles.

This is what I use, works great:

http://www.tooled-up.com/artwork/ProdImage/TB5033.jpg

Oh and the old grout remover should look something like this:

http://images.orgill.com/200x200/3360666.JPG

This is also a good opportunity to try a different coloured grout, as there are so many choices available these days. Unless of course you are still happy with the original colour.

Good luck with it all!

[blexann]

You can use a scraper (kinda like a putty knife) or a small prybar to get behind the tile and try and "pop it" off the wall. Sometimes it works and other times you break the tile.

To frame a wall: There should be a 2x4 laid flat running along the floor with another 2x4 (laid flat) running across the top of the "studs" (which are 2x4x) running vetically. There will be 2 2x4s 90 degrees to each other in the corners. The 2x4 should be 16" mininum horizontally separated .. the bathtub should be on the floor and have been "pushed up" against this rough framing.

After ripping all the existing drywall down to the studs (from the top of the bathtub to the ceiling) ... The cement board sheets will need to be mounted such that the "edges" of the sheets are in the middle of the studs ... so that the edges of adjacent sheets share the stud (and are screws into the same stud) ... just rememebr that all edges of the concrete board need to be supported and screwed into a stud (every 8" or so would be best ... use the special cement board screws).

I am not planning on ripping the wall out right up to the ceiling - only the damaged area - otherwise the job will be too big - Therefore I will nto be framming the wall - will this be a problem ? That's why I was asking about vertical studs - can I install a vertical stud between 2 horizontall studs to give me a place to screw the new dryall in ?

[CheapScotsman]

There shouldn't be any horzontal studs (well, maybe on where the top of the bathtub is ... but shouldn't be any others) ... My description of the studs above was just to explain how the framing works (i was perhaps under the false impression that you didn't understand that).

Rip your drywall open and take a picture if need be.

Don't just rip out the drywall that is damaged ... the rest of it is just going to go down the road anyways. Lets do the job right (see Holmes on Holmes ... and I don't even have a TV).

Rip the drywall out from the top of the bathtub up to the same level as the showerhead. Lay your plastic then screw the cement board into the studs then tile it ... It will only take a few hours; a few sheets of concrete board and a roll of plastic.

Please ... don't just replace the drywall that is damaged. It really isn't going to last .... but if you really want to do it then
a) Cut out the damaged drywall into a square (preferable spanning from the center of one stud to another
b) do a picture frame of backing boards on the inside edges of this opening ... gets some 3/4" plywood or 3/4" 1x3s. Cut them to the length/width of the opening, insert then into the opening and screws through the drywall into the board such that 1/2 of the width of the board is attached to the existing wall and 1/2 of the width of the board will be available to screw your new drywall onto.
c) cut new drywall to fit the opening
d) Insert into the "hole" and screw it into place (against the backing boards above)
e) don't bother filling it; it'll be "covered" by the cement used during tiling
g) tile and grout.
f) Do this again in single digit years

[jed]

The Schluter membrane means you do it once, and if its done correctly, you're done, period. Even with regular drywall, the distributor said. No vapor leaking at all.