Budget 24pin and Dual 12V rail PSU

[apvm]

This is what I got lately

http://www.logiccomputerhouse.com/site/main.php?module=detail&id=8593

Altho in a retail box but nothing much inside, PSU, power cable, 4 screws and that's it.

Specifications:

http://www.hecgroupusa.com/FLEX1.php?id=54

For those who don't know the brand, HEC are the PSU to get 10 years ago, the older Antec 300W were made by them.

The PSU has 24 pin power connector, 1 P4 Style connector, 6 4 pins connector for hard drive etc, 1 SATA power connector, and came with a 4 pin to 6 pin convertor for PCI-E video card. Pretty much enough for a modern PC.

The weight is slightly lighter than the Thermaltake 420W which it replaced.

Advantage of dual 12V rail is the 1st 12V rail goes to the motherboard (24 pin power supply) and the 2nd 12V supply the rest of the connectors, this is useful if you have mutiple drives in your PC, for my case 4 hard drives and two optical drives.

After 5 days of non stop operation, I found it is much stable than the Thermaltake and cooler too, the Thermaltake will feel warm after 5 days but this one is cooler, this only means it can supply enough current to my PC without draining too much on the PSU.

Overall, I recommend this one for those who don't have a budget for a $100-200 dollars power supply. BTW HEC is in AMD recommended PSU list.

[goofball]

The weight is slightly lighter than the Thermaltake 420W which it replaced.

Advantage of dual 12V rail is the 1st 12V rail goes to the motherboard (24 pin power supply) and the 2nd 12V supply the rest of the connectors, this is useful if you have mutiple drives in your PC, for my case 4 hard drives and two optical drives.

Overall, I recommend this one for those who don't have a budget for a $100-200 dollars power supply.

The newer Thermaltake (TR2) lineup is made by HEC.

12v2 is for CPU only. 12v1 is for motherboard + peripherals.

I would still recommend the Fortron AX450-PN before an Orion.

[apvm]

The newer Thermaltake (TR2) lineup is made by HEC.

12v2 is for CPU only. 12v1 is for motherboard + peripherals.

I would still recommend the Fortron AX450-PN before an Orion.

Thanks for the info but I read it somewhere that the rail thing is the other way around, may be my memory fail me again.

I know about the Fortron but it is hard to find in Ontario and last week NCIX had it on sale but still it came close to $80 including shipping and taxes.

And to be honest, I have an HEC AT power supply still working after 10 years, so for $30 less, I am fine with the HEC.

[DaFonz]

Single rail is the way to go

[goofball]

Point being, there should be alarm bells going off when an advertised 585w PSU is being sold for so little.

PSU's aren't being built the same as they used to. HEC is still a good manufacturer but even good manufacturer's have varying levels of quality.

For power hungry systems, a single +12v rail is still best.

[apvm]

Point being, there should be alarm bells going off when an advertised 585w PSU is being sold for so little.

Simply because the name is not well known in N. America but it is rather popular in Asia and Europe.

And if you dig deep enough, what you paying extra for some well known brand has little or none to the performance but the cosmetic.

I always do a lot of research before I buy a piece of computer hardware and I am looking for the most bang for my $, for after my 1st computer a Sinclair Spectrum 48k, I learnt that the worst investment is the mighty PC, they are even worse than cars. The 486 66mhz 10 years ago costed me quite a bit but if I still had it, how much does it worth now and I also wonder if it can run the programs I am running now, at least the Honda I bought 10 years ago is still running fine.

Oh btw, if you open this PSU up and compare it to an Antec 480W and check out the made of components like capacitors, you'll be surprised.

[apvm]

12v2 is for CPU only. 12v1 is for motherboard + peripherals.


I am pretty sure you're wrong, if you check out the specifications of ATX 2.01 concerning dual 12V rail.....

"With a dual +12V PSU, you have one separate +12V rail for the motherboard and then everything else is supplied by the second "rail"
That way the motherboard is unaffected by power surges and dips caused by drives spinning up etc."

[apvm]

For power hungry systems, a single +12v rail is still best.

Wrong again, no matter how powerful your single +12V is, the motherboard is subject to possible power surges and dips caused by drives spinning up. You should do more research, the ATX 2.01 Specs require....24 pin, dual 12V rail and power efficiency no less than 75% and some more minor changes.

Imagine your +12V is a water tab, dual rail is like adding a Y connector to the tab, so if you have 12V1=19A and 12V2=20A, your total 12V=39A, the advantage has already mentioned above.

So a big NO to your quote.

[K10]

Simply because the name is not well known in N. America but it is rather popular in Asia and Europe.

And if you dig deep enough, what you paying extra for some well known brand has little or none to the performance but the cosmetic.

Oh btw, if you open this PSU up and compare it to an Antec 480W and check out the made of components like capacitors, you'll be surprised.

Brand name has little to do to up-to-date enthusiast. I don't feel bad at all for owning an OCZ PowerStream 520W costing $159 + tax. Maybe in your opinion, I'm paying $100 more while losing 65W. Stupid me... ;)

[apvm]

Brand name has little to do to up-to-date enthusiast. I don't feel bad at all for owning an OCZ PowerStream 520W costing $159 + tax. Maybe in your opinion, I'm paying $100 more while losing 65W. Stupid me... ;)

Not necessary, the OCZ PowerStream line is one of the top PSU and you shouldn't feel bad at all but if it was Modstream then yes, it will be no better than the cheaper Fortron or HEC Orion.

And I pity those who pay more for those Ultra X connect series, you are actually paying more for the cosmetic but the power supply is simply not up to high performer PC requirements especially if you overclock, Ultra is consider bad in the following thread http://techimo.com/forum/t124252.html

Let me clarify the purpose of this thread....the thread is to recommend a budget power supply that is ATX 2.01 specification and good bang for the buck.

I have one AMD 64 9x280mhz system with 3 SCSI and 4 IDE drives doing mostly video encoding (home video to DVD) stuff 5 days per week non stop and sometimes 7/24, generic PSU couldn't do it, I have had two so call 500W generic burnt out within weeks with another box doing similiar task. As I mentioned before the Thermaltake 420W simply getting too warm after a few days and that was sign that it may not have enough juice to supply the AMD 64 and it was drawing too much current from it. The HEC Orion after 5 days of non stop operation, it doesn't feel uncomfortably warm and I have to say it is good bang for the buck, cost is an important factor to my line of work, I don't want to buy a $200 dollars PSU that half of its purpose I don't use (like supporting an SLI set up) especially when BTX may be coming soon...but that is just me.

[K10]

Not necessary, the OCZ PowerStream line is one of the top PSU and you shouldn't feel bad at all but if it was Modstream then yes, it will be no better than the cheaper Fortron or HEC Orion.

And I pity those who pay more for those Ultra X connect series, you are actually paying more for the cosmetic but the power supply is simply not up to high performer PC requirements especially if you overclock, Ultra is consider bad in the following thread http://techimo.com/forum/t124252.html

Let me clarify the purpose of this thread....the thread is to recommend a budget power supply that is ATX 2.01 specification and good bang for the buck.

I have one AMD 64 9x280mhz system with 3 SCSI and 4 IDE drives doing mostly video encoding (home video to DVD) stuff 5 days per week non stop and sometimes 7/24, generic PSU couldn't do it, I have had two so call 500W generic burnt out within weeks with another box doing similiar task. As I mentioned before the Thermaltake 420W simply getting too warm after a few days and that was sign that it may not have enough juice to supply the AMD 64 and it was drawing too much current from it. The HEC Orion after 5 days of non stop operation, it doesn't feel uncomfortably warm and I have to say it is good bang for the buck, cost is an important factor to my line of work, I don't want to buy a $200 dollars PSU that half of its purpose I don't use (like supporting an SLI set up) especially when BTX may be coming soon...but that is just me.

Well yeah, if you're talking about ModStream, 12v is worse than 420W PowerStream. Ultra is even worse, no doubt.

I won't use "warm" to describe the health of the psu. It just a matter of airflow. The HEC may be an alternative to the even cheaper junks, but if I am you, I wouldn't risk the 3 SCSI and 4 IDE drive on a $43 psu, not worth the risk for blaming myself for being cheap on the essential, + I don't trust the 585W at all. 9 x 280 depends on if you're on stock voltage, vcore kills.

Although my psu support BTX, I don't think it's replacing ATX any time soon, more like never.

[goofball]

Wrong again, no matter how powerful your single +12V is, the motherboard is subject to possible power surges and dips caused by drives spinning up. You should do more research, the ATX 2.01 Specs require....24 pin, dual 12V rail and power efficiency no less than 75% and some more minor changes.

Imagine your +12V is a water tab, dual rail is like adding a Y connector to the tab, so if you have 12V1=19A and 12V2=20A, your total 12V=39A, the advantage has already mentioned above.

So a big NO to your quote.

You cannot add up 12v1 and 12v2 and get your total peak 12v amperage output. That is not how it is calculated.

70% minimum under full load, not 75%. 75% is recommended.

You should look at the connectors page and note what is powered by 12v1 and what is powered by 12v2. If you notice, the only thing that 12v2 is powering is the 12v connector, which is what is powering the CPU. Motherboard, molex, SATA, and all other peripheral connections, they are receiving their 12v power by 12v1. Download it here, and look at pages 35-37.

http://www.formfactors.org/developer/specs/ATX12V%20PSDG2.01.pdf

What the ATX12v spec requires and what is actually out there in the real world can be 2 different things. You may have not overloaded an ATX12v 2.01 PSU with dual rails but I have, and it needed to be replaced with an OCZ Powerstream, which is not by definition ATX 2.01 compliant since it does not have dual rails.

[apvm]

No worry about me, I've been playing around PC stuff since the Sinclair Spectrum days and HEC was a top PSU manufacturer during the 386 or 486 or 586 days (can't remember) and I still have an Antec AT power supply made by them, so I think I know what I am doing. As for the heat it was not airflow I am sure since I have my case open, before the AMD 64, it was an AMD Barton, same component except different cpu and motherboard, so I am sure the AMD 64 draw more current than the XP and for my kind of useage, the Themaltake may or may not endue.

Anyway, I did open the HEC Orion and checked out its components and soldering job etc....altho the components are not top of the line but they are acceptable, at least the capacitors are not no name cheapo stuff which may leak or fail completely after extended use ,the heatsink is not just a piece of metal like some no name generic PSU and the general soldering job is OK.

The cost cutting I see is they use a thin steel casing, Taiwanese capacitors instead of Japanese and the heatsink is of lesser weight but still designed to do the job. ( not a piece of bended metal like some real cheapo PSU). To be honest, I don't expect to find Japanese components and a heavy duty heatsink on such a low cost budget PSU but the things I found inside told me it should last quite a bit before it'll fail.

[apvm]

You cannot add up 12v1 and 12v2 and get your total peak 12v amperage output. That is not how it is calculated.

70% minimum under full load, not 75%. 75% is recommended.

You should look at the connectors page and note what is powered by 12v1 and what is powered by 12v2. If you notice, the only thing that 12v2 is powering is the 12v connector, which is what is powering the CPU. Motherboard, molex, SATA, and all other peripheral connections, they are receiving their 12v power by 12v1. Download it here, and look at pages 35-37.

http://www.formfactors.org/developer/specs/ATX12V%20PSDG2.01.pdf

What the ATX12v spec requires and what is actually out there in the real world can be 2 different things. You may have not overloaded an ATX12v 2.01 PSU with dual rails but I have, and it needed to be replaced with an OCZ Powerstream, which is not by definition ATX 2.01 compliant since it does not have dual rails.

I am not here to debate, I am here simply to recommend something to the people out there who can't afford Powerstream and want something that is affortable and will not burn out in a few months and bring along some of the more expensive components to power up their PC.

No need to justify your purchase here since nobody is saying the HEC ORion is a better PSU than the more expensive one.

The Thermaltake is well known to be the best bang for the buck 420W out there but it doesn't mean the others more expensive ones are worse than it.

Let me repeat myself, I am simply recommending a PSU which is budget and best bang for the buck IMO here in this thread.

If you want to justify your purchase by bashing this one, it'll be like comparing apple to orange and there'll be no point discussing further, I'd suggest we stop right here and right now and to be honest if you have a Powerstream why bother with a budget PSU, it is simply not for you.

[goofball]

I am not here to debate, I am here simply to recommend something to the people out there who can't afford Powerstream and want something that is affortable and will not burn out in a few months and bring along some of the more expensive components to power up their PC.

No need to justify your purchase here since nobody is saying the HEC ORion is a better PSU than the more expensive one.

The Thermaltake is well known to be the best bang for the buck 420W out there but it doesn't mean the others more expensive ones are worse than it.

Let me repeat myself, I am simply recommending a PSU which is budget and best bang for the buck IMO here in this thread.

If you want to justify your purchase by bashing this one, it'll be like comparing apple to orange and there'll be no point discussing further, I'd suggest we stop right here and right now and to be honest if you have a Powerstream why bother with a budget PSU, it is simply not for you.

Longevity of a PSU can rely on many factors. That said, I don't believe you have owned that particular unit long enough to make a statement on whether it will last or not.

The TT 420w is a 5v based unit, not very well designed for heavy +12v based systems. A dual core P4 with the same amount of drives that you have, and a high power video card, will bring that down to it's knees. As mentioned, it is a good 5v based unit.

I don't believe anywhere that I have bashed that unit. I said that there should be alarm bells going off when a 550w unit is being sold for that price. "Bashing" is a pretty strong word, and I have never said anything negative about said PSU.

You pointed out several statements I made and deemed them incorrect. I have posted the information showing whether they are correct or not. It is not a debate. The facts are there in the ATX12v 2.01 specification, which you referred to several times.

I am merely posting information. I have never said I have bought a Fortron or an OCZ Powerstream.

[apvm]

Yup, the world may end tomorrow, who knows?! Best to buy one, open it up, test it and prove me wrong, I don't care, I am simply suggesting something for the budget people, I don't work for HEC so it doesn't hurt me a bit if nobody buying them and have no intention to prove myself Jimmy Neutron.

Anyway for those who want to buy a new power supply but don't want to spend too much, here is one that may work for you, do your own reseach.

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=891640&page=1&pp=20 scroll down for some users' comment.

End of story.

[freezeepopprice]

Hey apvm ... good find.

I've been looking around for a good cheap psu and it looks like you've found one. Now I have to find a local vendor. I've been a fan of the sparkle power supplies lately but as soon as they go over 450W (true 450W ... not the AX-450 which is a rebadged 400W) they get pretty pricey ($100 cdn).

There are a number of good reviews:

this is a good site for psu reviews
http://www.amdboard.com/psu.html

to quote from big bruin on the HEC ACE 580UB

"Let me start off by saying that I only buy 3 different manufactures of power supplies: PC Power & Cooling, Enermax, and Antec. I have had great luck, no failures, and rock solid results with all 3 of those companies. However, after testing out this power supply and seeing how stable it performs, I would now consider HEC Group when I need a new power supply unit. "

Only thing is this psu doesn't mention anything about 6pin pci-E connectors or EPS12V. Does it have any of these? Wouldn't expect the 8pin EPS.

[DaFonz]

Wrong again, no matter how powerful your single +12V is, the motherboard is subject to possible power surges and dips caused by drives spinning up. You should do more research, the ATX 2.01 Specs require....24 pin, dual 12V rail and power efficiency no less than 75% and some more minor changes.

Imagine your +12V is a water tab, dual rail is like adding a Y connector to the tab, so if you have 12V1=19A and 12V2=20A, your total 12V=39A, the advantage has already mentioned above.

So a big NO to your quote.

Uh.. but you are wrong. A single strong 12v rail is the best for power hungry systems. That's why people who overclock go with an OCZ520 over the 600 because it can drive more amperage through the single 12v line.

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=412160&highlight=single+rail

If you do more reading on the OCforums, you'll realize that single rail systems are best for power hungry systems.

You also cannot just add up the amperages on the two lines like that (which you would have learned if you did as much research as you claimed).

[DaFonz]

There are a number of good reviews:

this is a good site for psu reviews
http://www.amdboard.com/psu.html


Those are just a collection of links to other review sites and a large majority of them are crap. I'd say that most have no clue what the parts do (notice how most reviews open up the case and go, here's a look of the inside!) nor do they have the proper equipment to test the PSUs properly (properly would be defined as using an oscilliscope to test how good the PSUs are).

I did a power supply review when I first started reviewing hardware and vowed never to do it again because taking readings from a multimeter/motherboard was stupid without an oscilliscope.

[freezeepopprice]

Hey Fonz,

Instead of just critiquing can you supply your reviews of PSU's so we can see what a good PSU review looks like?

thanks

[goofball]

Hey Fonz,

Instead of just critiquing can you supply your reviews of PSU's so we can see what a good PSU review looks like?

thanks

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/bluestorm.html

they do very solid PSU reviews.

SPCR does as well, at times.

[THE JEW (RaVeN)]

Just buy a Fortron/Sparkle.


/thread

[DaFonz]

Hey Fonz,

Instead of just critiquing can you supply your reviews of PSU's so we can see what a good PSU review looks like?

thanks

Note what I said


I did a power supply review when I first started reviewing hardware and vowed never to do it again because taking readings from a multimeter/motherboard was stupid without an oscilliscope.


I do not have the equipment needed to do a proper review which is why I don't do them.

This is an example of a PSU review done right
http://techreport.com/reviews/2004q4/psus/index.x?pg=1

Here's another solid review
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=1359&page=1

I like SPCR's reviews when they look at efficiency numbers and acoustic performance