Damn the shootout!

[d_jedi]

I've been saying all along it's a bad idea.. now the Leafs have given up two points to the Sens because of it.

I mean, the shootout cost us the freakin' gold medal in the Nagano Olympics.. what Canadian hockey fan can support it after that??!

[baller]

i actually like the shoot-out

DAMN HASEK, that no good sun of gun

[gillianchung]

Allison must've watched the Matrix wayyyyy too many times, because he seems to be stuck in bullet time.

the shootout is stupid.

soccer does it BECAUSE they play 2 45 min. continuous running and it kills them to play more than 120 min. becuase they only get 3 substitutions the WHOLE GAME!

Hockey gets to change lines and play short shifts, and YET, we need a shootout? Damn it, let them play it to the death...overtime , 2nd overtime, whatever it takes. Why do this...this is idiotic. Total gimmic.

I hate it.

[coopaloop]

We sure could use a guy like Mogilny now...Couldn't we!!

[rluc]

Allison sucks...he's super slow and any shiny goaltender could make out what move he is going to make and stop him.

This hurts as a Leafs fan...

WAIVE AKI BERG. He is -5 or -6 by now in 3 games...wow.

Let the kids shoot. Wellwood, Steen, Stajan. I'm sick of seeing Allison in bullet time. :mad:

[Geologic]

Once it went to the shootout I was sure the leafs didn't have a chance. Leafs players just aren't as talented in that area.

I was hoping they would put Steen and/or Stajan in there for the shooout, why can't the team trust the youngsters once in a while.. Quinn seems to keep going to the big names. (minus wellwood).

Now Lindros/Allison have Hasek in their nightmares. :lol:

[Amourek]

I wish they'd make it 4 or 5 shooters. Don't like the idea of having the fate of the game fall on only 3 players per team.

[Jay C]

The shooout isn't bad, but Quinn really sucks are picking shooters. I would prefer as many overtimes as it takes to get a winner.

[soulflare]

I would prefer as many overtimes as it takes to get a winner.

Won't happen. It's one thing for the playoffs, but otherwise, the networks are simply not going to stand for that kind of disruption to their broadcasting schedules.

[sixer]

Shootout RULES!!!

I hate ties and for the leaf fans, Quinn just needs to put the right guys in there.

And I love how Quinn is complaining to the media about the shootout. Ohh, no other sport but soccer has a shootout, well hello Quinn!!! No other Sport has as many ties as soccer and hockey right after that!

Welcome to the new NHL, I LOVE IT!

[Mr. Robo]

A game shouldn't be decided by a shootout. Just think about the playoffs, it's no longer a team effort. Now the game will be decided on a bad decision. What is wrong with triple overtime.........longer the game the better. At least you'll know you've earned it.

[Codegen]

Oh well. Quit bitching.

Go Sens go, go Sens go, go Sens go

[d_jedi]

Won't happen. It's one thing for the playoffs, but otherwise, the networks are simply not going to stand for that kind of disruption to their broadcasting schedules.
They do it for baseball..

[Cafe_333]

I'm against the shootout as well. So are the GM's. Anyway, if they *had* to keep the shootout, at least make the OT period longer like 10minutes. Since the game has opened up so much and lots of scoring happens in games now, a 10 minute OT would at least give either teams a chance to score a sudden death goal. 5 minutes is nothing and not enough time to make things happen especially when it's only 4on4. I mean you see how fast 2 minutes go by already on a penalty kill....

[sportsfan99]

I am not a fan of the shootout.But i am not a fan of playing into someone wins at the most one ot 4 on 4 no score then a second ot 3 on 3.

[mingming]

Would it be fair for a team that misses the playoffs by one point because of a stupid shootout? It doesnt reflect which was the better team that night, but who has the best individual skill on a team. The shootout is basically saying that the team with the most skill and talent witht he most mobile goaltender deserves a win over a team with less skill and talent, but would probably play better as a team.

Just think of Leafs vs Thrashers going to a shootout. Which team plays better as a team and should win in a normal OT game. But which team will get the upper hand in the shootout. Leafs have a better chance to win in a normal game since they have more team strategy. But Atlanta will definently win if they can hold on and make it to the shootout. Is that really fair to determine playoff positioning?

[skanji]

guys, the reality is bitching about it (like droopy, the leafs head coach), ain't gonna do a THING about it....

the shootout is here to stay. i think it is lame for sure, but there wasn't one person sitting at the Corel Center last night when it happened. the place was going NUTS (leaf fans too)

Thanks for your opinion Quinn - why don't you get back to coaching....

[rdtx2002]

shootouts are a crapshoot..

if Lindros and Allison scored last night.. we wouldn't be talking about the shootout

[skanji]

shootouts are a crapshoot..

if Lindros and Allison scored last night.. we wouldn't be talking about the shootout

If Allison hit the net once in the past two shootouts, we still would be talking about the shootout...

How the hell do you miss the net TWICE in two chances?!?!?! :lol:

[thelefteyeguy]

guys, the reality is bitching about it (like droopy, the leafs head coach), ain't gonna do a THING about it....

the shootout is here to stay. i think it is lame for sure, but there wasn't one person sitting at the Corel Center last night when it happened. the place was going NUTS (leaf fans too)

Thanks for your opinion Quinn - why don't you get back to coaching....

shoot out is fine...Quinn is just not picking the right ppl.

[Cheezy]

shoot out is fine...Quinn is just not picking the right ppl.
Agreed.. I also think it (the shootout) is lame but as Skanji said it's here to stay so lets get over it and be optimistic in the fact that the Sens have not beaten the Leafs in Reg or O/T play .
Remember there are no shootouts in the playoffs .

[sleepyguy]

I kinda like it... can make a guy who's been quiet the whole game a hero! :)

[sportsfan99]

Agreed.. I also think it (the shootout) is lame but as Skanji said it's here to stay so lets get over it and be optimistic in the fact that the Sens have not beaten the Leafs in Reg or O/T play .
Remember there are no shootouts in the playoffs .

The leafs have to make the play-offs the big question is will they.

[fanaticalLEAFfan]

The leafs have to make the play-offs the big question is will they.

Of course they will. The Sens were unable to beat the Leafs in regulation or overtime, in two games now. Also, in case you didn't realize it, the Leafs are without two of their best players.

Consider this.

The Leafs have Sundin and O'neil in the line up. The Sens are without Heatley and Alfredson. That's how the situation is right now, just the other way. The Leafs played a horrible game against Montreal, but they played well against the Sens and will be a good team once Sundin and O'neil come back. Hell, they're a good team without Sundin and O'neil.

[sportsfan99]

Of course they will. The Sens were unable to beat the Leafs in regulation or overtime, in two games now. Also, in case you didn't realize it, the Leafs are without two of their best players.

Consider this.

The Leafs have Sundin and O'neil in the line up. The Sens are without Heatley and Alfredson. That's how the situation is right now, just the other way. The Leafs played a horrible game against Montreal, but they played well against the Sens and will be a good team once Sundin and O'neil come back. Hell, they're a good team without Sundin and O'neil.

The leafs have blown two leads in two games as well it goes both ways.The leafs have been picked to do pick up the 8th seed.

[Cheezy]

The leafs have to make the play-offs the big question is will they.
Yes they will and they will finish better than projected by the "Experts"

[sportsfan99]

Yes they will and they will finish better than projected by the "Experts"

If and that is big if they stay in tact if eric or jamie go down they will have in deep trouble.

[fanaticalLEAFfan]

The leafs have blown two leads in two games as well it goes both ways.The leafs have been picked to do pick up the 8th seed.

The Sens have also "blown" leads, as has almost every other team in the league and it's only the 3rd game in. Scoring is up dramatically this year, so of course there are going to be blown leads.

Like I said, give the Leafs Sundin and O'neil and take away Heatley and Alfredson from Ottawa and see what the outcome is. I bet it would be a lot different.

[fanaticalLEAFfan]

If and that is big if they stay in tact if eric or jamie go down they will have in deep trouble.

Alison hasn't even done anything this year. If Lindros goes down, we'll finish in 6th or 7th in the conference. If Alison goes down, big deal. We've tied the Sens without Sundin, without O'neil and with Alison doing nothing.

We need a healthy Lindros to be a great team, but we don't need Alison. If he does return to his old self, then we will challenge Ottawa for 1st in the Division. If Alison doesn't return to his old self, but Lindros stays healthy, we'll be in the top 4 in the conference.

[sportsfan99]

Alison hasn't even done anything this year. If Lindros goes down, we'll finish in 6th or 7th in the conference. If Alison goes down, big deal. We've tied the Sens without Sundin, without O'neil and with Alison doing nothing.

We need a healthy Lindros to be a great team, but we don't need Alison. If he does return to his old self, then we will challenge Ottawa for 1st in the Division. If Alison doesn't return to his old self, but Lindros stays healthy, we'll be in the top 4 in the conference.

There are just to many ifs with the leafs.

[Carnage]

There are just to many ifs with the leafs.

How is that any different then every other team in the league.

It's only 3 games in. Alot can change between now and April.

Even Calgary who is predicted to go all the way again have started out slowly.

[fanaticalLEAFfan]

There are just to many ifs with the leafs.

No there's not.
Without Alison and Lindros, we'll still finish in the top 8. Hell, the Sens have been unable to beat a Leafs team (shootout doesn't count, as that doesn't involve the whole team) without Sundin and O'neil. So when those two come back, even without Lindros and Alison (who has done nothing so far), we'll still beat most teams.

So forget the if's about Alison and Lindros.
Without both of them the Leafs will still be fine. Sundin is a better player than Lindros and we're doing fine without him.

[mallik]

No there's not.
Without Alison and Lindros, we'll still finish in the top 8. Hell, the Sens have been unable to beat a Leafs team (shootout doesn't count, as that doesn't involve the whole team) without Sundin and O'neil. So when those two come back, even without Lindros and Alison (who has done nothing so far), we'll still beat most teams.

So forget the if's about Alison and Lindros.
Without both of them the Leafs will still be fine. Sundin is a better player than Lindros and we're doing fine without him.

You act like the Leafs are a great team without Lindros and Allison, and if these two play up to potential, it's just icing on the cake. Have you seen what the lineup would be like without those two? :eek:

Allison looks pretty bad right now, but he hasn't played in almost 3 years. He always been a bad skater and he still managed to put up 95 pts.

I don't know why you think O'Neil is so important, but not Lindros or Allison. O'Neil has regressed every year since his 40 goal campaign. Yes, he has had to deal with injuries and the tragic death of his brother, but he has done nothing to show that he is going to have a renaissance.

Lindros has been a force out there, and he if plays up to his potential, he is much better than Sundin.

I'm not even going to go into defence :D

[Yaowsers]

Am not a fan of the shootout. Was never a fan of the shootout. Never will be a fan of the shootout.

How can you explain to me that after 5 minutes of such exciting 4 on 4 hockey you would bring the game to a sudden stand still. I understand that they want a conclusion to the game but the best way to end the game is by letting them play. Sudden death.

[skanji]

Why weren't at least 50% of the current leafs line-up bought out in the summer? 40%? 30%? and then money spent on free agents??

With a $39 million dollar cap, the leafs could have easily afforded that amount and be night-and-day a different team than now.

[mingming]

The shootout will be gone next season. The NHL should be able to realize their mistake by using it this year.

Should also take away the stupid Trapezoid area for goalies to play the puck. That does NOT increase scoring whatsoever.

[mingming]

Leafs would only be 2 pts behind Ottawa if there was no shootout. But now, they are 4 pts behind.

[Carnage]

Should also take away the stupid Trapezoid area for goalies to play the puck. That does NOT increase scoring whatsoever.

In theory it does actually.

It limits when a goalie can get a hold of the puck and fire it out. Prevents goalies like Belfour and Brodeur of playing ping pong with each other.

Though it doesn't work as well because the goalie can still beat the puck before it gets to that zone.

[fanaticalLEAFfan]

Why weren't at least 50% of the current leafs line-up bought out in the summer? 40%? 30%? and then money spent on free agents??

With a $39 million dollar cap, the leafs could have easily afforded that amount and be night-and-day a different team than now.

Do you even know what you're talking about? Domi, Belak and Berg were all free agents. JFJ resigned them. Buying them out wasn't even an option, he could have let them walk away.

So who is left after those guys?

Sundin, Tucker, Ponikarovsky, Antropov, Belfour, McCabe, Kaberle, Klee, Kilger, Stajan, Perrott

You would buy out the contract for half of those guys??? I hope you're not serious.

Belfour is a big maybe, because of his age. But up to the buy out period, Belfour didn't show any signs of weakening. He single handedly beat the Sens in the playoffs the last year. It's hard to justify buying him out.

The only other player I would consider buying out is Perrott, but he doesn't even add anything to the cap, so that wouldn't make sense. Keep him around, he might turn into a good 4th line grinder one day.

Who else? Antropov? That wouldn't make sense either, as his salary is extremely low, it doesn't even add much to the cap, and he has a ton of potential.

Nobody else should be bought out as they are either young kids with tons of potential (ie Stajan, Wellwood, Ponikarovsky, etc), or proven veterans (ie Sundin, Tucker, McCabe, etc).

I think it's great that Sens fans want to chime in on a predominately Leafs thread, but at least do a bit of research before making comments like that. It just wouldn't make sense to buy anyone else out. If you think it would, by all means explain who you would buy out and why.

[skanji]

Do you even know what you're talking about? Domi, Belak and Berg were all free agents. JFJ resigned them. Buying them out wasn't even an option, he could have let them walk away.

So who is left after those guys?

Sundin, Tucker, Ponikarovsky, Antropov, Belfour, McCabe, Kaberle, Klee, Kilger, Stajan, Perrott

You would buy out the contract for half of those guys??? I hope you're not serious.

Belfour is a big maybe, because of his age. But up to the buy out period, Belfour didn't show any signs of weakening. He single handedly beat the Sens in the playoffs the last year. It's hard to justify buying him out.

The only other player I would consider buying out is Perrott, but he doesn't even add anything to the cap, so that wouldn't make sense. Keep him around, he might turn into a good 4th line grinder one day.

Who else? Antropov? That wouldn't make sense either, as his salary is extremely low, it doesn't even add much to the cap, and he has a ton of potential.

Nobody else should be bought out as they are either young kids with tons of potential (ie Stajan, Wellwood, Ponikarovsky, etc), or proven veterans (ie Sundin, Tucker, McCabe, etc).

I think it's great that Sens fans want to chime in on a predominately Leafs thread, but at least do a bit of research before making comments like that. It just wouldn't make sense to buy anyone else out. If you think it would, by all means explain who you would buy out and why.

great response - but you just answered my question...from the following players:
Sundin, Tucker, Ponikarovsky, Antropov, Belfour, McCabe, Kaberle, Klee, Kilger, Stajan, Perrott
I would definitely have bought out McCabe, Klee, Kilger and Belfour (MINIMUM). Not half, but at least some key players in some key positions that would have freed up abot $20 mill in cap space (give or take).

McCabe is hardly a proven NHL player, particularly in the new NHL where slower defence is exposed in a heartbeat.

(Sarcasm is a tough tool to read on-line I guess. Of course getting rid of half the team was tounge in cheek!)

[d_jedi]

Berg and Belak are pylons and JFJ should never have given them qualifying offers.. I mean, Aki Berg is making more than Glen Wesley.. I would have much rather have had Wesley (assuming JFJ would have been able to sign him at his current salary.. which may not be the case) on our team than Berg..

(also, in retrospect, I'd rather have Brad Boyes and Alan McCauley than what we got out of Owen Nolan over the past few years.. but meh.. )

I agree that McCabe is overpaid in the "new NHL".

[thelefteyeguy]

great response - but you just answered my question...from the following players:
Sundin, Tucker, Ponikarovsky, Antropov, Belfour, McCabe, Kaberle, Klee, Kilger, Stajan, Perrott
I would definitely have bought out McCabe, Klee, Kilger and Belfour (MINIMUM). Not half, but at least some key players in some key positions that would have freed up abot $20 mill in cap space (give or take).

McCabe is hardly a proven NHL player, particularly in the new NHL where slower defence is exposed in a heartbeat.

(Sarcasm is a tough tool to read on-line I guess. Of course getting rid of half the team was tounge in cheek!)

that's why you are Sens fan and not a Leafs fan.

buy out McCabe??? he's been playing like 30 mins a game for the Leafs. Rated at least top 10 in the NHL, questionable at top 5 but no way should the leafs buy him out. Unless the Leafs had Neidermeyer in the bag, McCabe is a decent #2 buy. Sure he has some brain farts...but so far the Sen's D hasnt been close to perfect against the Leafs either.

Belfour...well there was really no #1 goalie available this yr. Leafs rather keep him. JFJ would have bought him out if another decent goalie was available.

Klee? he's been solid so far.

JFJ should not have signed Berg and Belak...Berg has been really struggling with the speed in the game.

Kilger has been decent as a 3/4 liner in a checking role.


I look at it this way...JFJ gets a B-/C+ just because of qualifying Berg and Signing Belak. Really, has the Leafs fought this yr???

[Carnage]

great response - but you just answered my question...from the following players:
Sundin, Tucker, Ponikarovsky, Antropov, Belfour, McCabe, Kaberle, Klee, Kilger, Stajan, Perrott
I would definitely have bought out McCabe, Klee, Kilger and Belfour (MINIMUM). Not half, but at least some key players in some key positions that would have freed up abot $20 mill in cap space (give or take).

McCabe is hardly a proven NHL player, particularly in the new NHL where slower defence is exposed in a heartbeat.

(Sarcasm is a tough tool to read on-line I guess. Of course getting rid of half the team was tounge in cheek!)

Some of that bought out money would still count against the cap. So it wouldn't fee up as much space as you'd think.

But honestly after buying out McCabe,Klee, and Belfour who would you replace them with for the money they were making?

The good defenseman were all going for too much in asking price(and we cold have been burned when those players singed elsewhere). And who would we repalce Belfour with? Dafoe? No thanks I'd rather take my chances with Belfour.

And considering the feeding frenzy that resulted in many teams over paying for their players(signing big ticket contracts for like 5 years), I'm gladd the Leafs avoided the feedign frenzy.

It's funny how in the old NHL the LEafs get slammed for over paying for their team, and in the new NHL they're slammed for not over paying for their team.

[skanji]

Some of that bought out money would still count against the cap. So it wouldn't fee up as much space as you'd think.

But honestly after buying out McCabe,Klee, and Belfour who would you replace them with for the money they were making?

The good defenseman were all going for too much in asking price(and we cold have been burned when those players singed elsewhere). And who would we repalce Belfour with? Dafoe? No thanks I'd rather take my chances with Belfour.

And considering the feeding frenzy that resulted in many teams over paying for their players(signing big ticket contracts for like 5 years), I'm gladd the Leafs avoided the feedign frenzy.

It's funny how in the old NHL the LEafs get slammed for over paying for their team, and in the new NHL they're slammed for not over paying for their team.

The point is MLSE had the money to do so, and gambled in not doing so...

As far as McCabe being in the top 10 d...that's why you guys are leaf fans...

[fanaticalLEAFfan]

The point is MLSE had the money to do so, and gambled in not doing so...

As far as McCabe being in the top 10 d...that's why you guys are leaf fans...

You're joking right? McCabe was one of the nominees for the Norris trophy. Somehow I think that automatically makes him one of the top D men in the league. The guy plays over 30 minutes every game, he's usually top 5 in scoring for D men, he's very mobile, his big, he's strong and he's got an absolute booming shot. If it wasn't for McCabe, the Leafs would be in trouble.

And why would you buy out Kilger? He doesn't even add anything to the cap, and in case you missed it, Kilger was one of the better players against the Sens in the playoffs the last year. He scored a goal in game 7 and logged a ton of ice time. He was also one of the best players on the ice when the Sens and Leafs played on Tuesday. Why buy out a young guy, with a tiny salary and a ton of heart? He may or may not crack the second line in his career, but he's a good 3rd line grinder. He's got good speed, he's big and he's strong.

Belfour? Like I said, it would be hard to justify buying out a guy who single handedly beat out the Sens in the playoffs. And then you have to think about who will replace him. I say the Leafs made the right move with him, lets just hope that i don't get proven wrong.

Klee?!? This one boggles the mind. He's a good, consistent defenceman. You will rarely hear his name mentioned in the highlights, but that's not a bad thing for a D man. He won't score much, and he won't throw crushing hits, but he is always in position and doesn't make stupid plays. He's a good defensive defenceman, exactly what the Leafs need.

I just don't understand why Sens fans pretend to know more about the Leafs than Leaf fans do. We don't pretend to know all about the Sens. It's kind of hypocritical to bash the Leafs when you rarely see them play. And I know you don't see them play often as the Leafs aren't shown in the Ottawa area very much. You have no idea about McCabe, Kilger or Klee, so I don't see how you can say you would have bought them out. It just doesn't make sense.

[fanaticalLEAFfan]

The point is MLSE had the money to do so, and gambled in not doing so...

As far as McCabe being in the top 10 d...that's why you guys are leaf fans...

Yeah, MLSE gambled on Belfour. But Melnyk(sp) gambled with Hasek and to a lesser degree Heatley. Both have huge smear marks on their recent NHL careers, but the Sens took that chance anyway.

I don't see what your point is? MLSE didn't have much money to work with. Sundin, McCabe and Belfour have rather large salaries. Factor in the rest of the team and there's not much money left.

[Carnage]

The point is MLSE had the money to do so, and gambled in not doing so...

As far as McCabe being in the top 10 d...that's why you guys are leaf fans...

That would have been more of a gamble then you think.

Buy out all the players you said they should would mean that they would have less money to spend on other players.

What players would they have replaced them with at a fraction of the cost but at the same time getting better players?

It just doesn't work that way.

I think it was the St. Louis GM that made a good point about not buying out players. It's just wasted money. All you're doing is paying a player to play elsewhere. Why not just pay them to play for yourself? This isn't a fantasy league. If you buy out a few players for like $20 million dollars you don't get that money back.

All you're doing is burning $20 million dollars. These teams are business's, and that's not how you run a good business spending huge amounts of cash to get ride of assets.

[skanji]

I just don't understand why Sens fans pretend to know more about the Leafs than Leaf fans do. We don't pretend to know all about the Sens. It's kind of hypocritical to bash the Leafs when you rarely see them play. And I know you don't see them play often as the Leafs aren't shown in the Ottawa area very much. You have no idea about McCabe, Kilger or Klee, so I don't see how you can say you would have bought them out. It just doesn't make sense.

Heaven forbid anyone have an opinion that differs from your own. I wouldn't paint all leaf fans (seriously) with one brush, and am a bit puzzled why you have gone that route.

No one is arguing with the fact that McCabe under the OLD system was an effective defenceman. Take a look at the new NHL. Take a look at the speed that defenceman need to have to keep up with rushing forwards. Guys like (sorry about this) Redden and Chara have a much easier time keeping up with the forwards given the new rules.

leafs management blew their opportunity to get rid of players which are struggling under the new system.

you are entitled to your opinion, and i'm entitled to mine. Let's see how McCabe, Kilger and Klee continue to do over the coming weeks....

[skanji]

I think it was the St. Louis GM that made a good point about not buying out players. It's just wasted money. All you're doing is paying a player to play elsewhere. Why not just pay them to play for yourself? This isn't a fantasy league. If you buy out a few players for like $20 million dollars you don't get that money back.

All you're doing is burning $20 million dollars. These teams are business's, and that's not how you run a good business spending huge amounts of cash to get ride of assets.

true, but we are talking about the leafs here. burning millions is their day to day business. in more practical terms, the leafs were pushing a $65 million salary had this season continued under the old system.

You are right that most teams (including the Sens) could not afford to do this. The leafs could have. But didn't.

[Carnage]

Guys like (sorry about this) Redden and Chara have a much easier time keeping up with the forwards given the new rules.


I'll give you Redden, however I have to disagree on Chara. If any defenseman is going to be hampered by the new rules it's Chara. He's huge, and not all the fast. And the fact that he's so strong is going to make him take penalties.

We're kind of making different arguments here though.

Sure someone like McCabe might not be as effective in the new NHL(assuming this new NHL lasts). However he's still a good defenseman. To pay him a few million dollars to go away is just stupid. If we wanted to get rid of him we'd trade him and get somethign in return, not pay him millions of dollars to go away.

Buying out players is just a stupid move with the exception of rarer cases of players who are severely overplayed, needed to move(like Nolan).

[mallik]

Before my comments get dismissed and viewed as irrelevant, I'm going to say that I am not a Sens fan.

You're joking right? McCabe was one of the nominees for the Norris trophy. Somehow I think that automatically makes him one of the top D men in the league. The guy plays over 30 minutes every game, he's usually top 5 in scoring for D men, he's very mobile, his big, he's strong and he's got an absolute booming shot. If it wasn't for McCabe, the Leafs would be in trouble.

Yes, McCabe was 4th in Norris voting, but he was voted on by the writers. I know you'll probably say that the writers know more than I do, but can you honestly say that there were only 3 better defencemen than McCabe? I could probably name 15 or 20 defencemen better than him.


Belfour? Like I said, it would be hard to justify buying out a guy who single handedly beat out the Sens in the playoffs. And then you have to think about who will replace him. I say the Leafs made the right move with him, lets just hope that i don't get proven wrong.

Belfour wasn't going to get bought out because JFJ is the one who signed him to his crazy contract before the lockout. He not going to buy out Belfour without him having played a single game. As for replacements, he could've signed Cujo for less than a million. And please don't tell me Belfour is way better and Cujo sucks etc. because Belfour has done nothing while playing for the Leafs to prove that he is a better than Cujo.


That would have been more of a gamble then you think.
Buy out all the players you said they should would mean that they would have less money to spend on other players.

What players would they have replaced them with at a fraction of the cost but at the same time getting better players?

It just doesn't work that way.

I think it was the St. Louis GM that made a good point about not buying out players. It's just wasted money. All you're doing is paying a player to play elsewhere. Why not just pay them to play for yourself? This isn't a fantasy league. If you buy out a few players for like $20 million dollars you don't get that money back.

All you're doing is burning $20 million dollars. These teams are business's, and that's not how you run a good business spending huge amounts of cash to get ride of assets.
The Leafs saved about 25 million in salaries with the cap, so even if you factor in the amount they'll give up in revenue sharing, they still could've bought out players and spent less than last year.

Look at what Clarke did. He handled the buy out option masterfully, getting rid of the dead weight and then signing Peter Forsberg. Wouldn't you rather have Forsberg than Sundin?

With that said, I don't think there was anybody on the team that would justify a buyout. They were all overpaid and shouldn't have been sign to their respective contracts in the first place, but they all still contributed. JFJ shouldn't have brought back certain players though, such as Belak and Berg.

I would give JFJ a D, maybe a C. He really hasn't done anything except acquire players that were practically begging to play here. He re-signed Belfour too early. Also, the team needed defence and wingers, so he loaded up on centers.

[gordholio]

Hockey is largely a game of stamina and should not be decided by a shootout IMHO. What if they played 5 minutes overtime and the winner got 2 points and the loser none.
If the teams are tied after overtime, both teams get no points.

[stealth]

As a Torontonian who tries to see the Leafs objectively and without loyalty and someone who normally agrees with a lot of what Skanji says I gotta agree with Carnage on this.
Skanji, what games are you watching exactly? Chara looks HORRIBLE this year. Bad penalties and just general awkwardness like he doesnt know what to do. If anyone CAN figure out how to play in the game, its him....but right now, he's a write-off. That doesnt mean McCabe is greatness either though...Truth is, I think the Leafs are an interesting team, and potentially a spolier this year. But they've gotten nowhere in previous years with far better teams than this. People mention Belfour, Lindros etc as the weak links. I personally dont see it that way. In the last yr of NHL play, Belfour missed only 11 games due to trunk injuries. Thats no reason to worry, despite his age. Hes 1 of the mopst professional players in the game and knows himself well and plays safely. I think the anchor on this boat is Quinn. The guy has no backbone at all for taking risks. He just uses the same old "dependable" players over and over. I applaud his loyalty, but he's done nothing for developing new young talent and thats why TML is where it is today. Al lthe dominant teams of the past 10 yrs have taken risks, gambled, invested in and believed in giving chances to youth i.e. Calgary, Tampa, NJ, Colorado, and to a lesser extent the up and coming teams like Minnesota. Instead of copying these teams, Quinn copies the Rangers and just goes shopping for big names at blowout prices whenever he can. When Belfour retires, Quinn will go after a probably 38yr old Brodeur when he's worn out. Thats his style. And thats why TML will never make it to the cup as long as he's running the show.

Another thing Leafs fans have to realize is this whole "we're better than Ottawa, because we always eliminate them" thing is old hat...Every year is different, and grit won't beat skill/finesse this year so quit thinking that Toronto has a God given right to own Ott (at least in hockey, lol). Because, guess what? Philly says the same thing about you, LOL!

I'll give you Redden, however I have to disagree on Chara. If any defenseman is going to be hampered by the new rules it's Chara. He's huge, and not all the fast. And the fact that he's so strong is going to make him take penalties.

We're kind of making different arguments here though.

Sure someone like McCabe might not be as effective in the new NHL(assuming this new NHL lasts). However he's still a good defenseman. To pay him a few million dollars to go away is just stupid. If we wanted to get rid of him we'd trade him and get somethign in return, not pay him millions of dollars to go away.

Buying out players is just a stupid move with the exception of rarer cases of players who are severely overplayed, needed to move(like Nolan).

[stealth]

Hockey is largely a game of stamina and should not be decided by a shootout IMHO. What if they played 5 minutes overtime and the winner got 2 points and the loser none.
If the teams are tied after overtime, both teams get no points.

Hockey has LITTLE to do with Stamina. Players play 30-60 sec shifts, and some only total 10-15mins per game. Thats stamina? Your poor wife! :cheesygri lol, j/k! You must be thinking of soccer or something.
The shootout showcases skill, so it ensures the best team wins. Hockey is as much about skill as it is stamina. Multiple OT games always end up sadly to me, with some fluky goal resulting from a goof up somewhere. I dont find that exciting at all.
In fact, I hear so much about people liking all the goals being scored this year, and I dont get it. Yes there are more goals, BUT they are mostly bad goals because of a break down of the defence and the goalie messing up his positioning. Crap goals that look like they should be in a minor league or rec league game. I'm not being dazzled with high-light reel quality goals personally.

I like it because it eliminates the chance of a game ending "unfairly" due to a poor or missed call by a ref or a cheap shot changing the momentum of the game. Its pure, its clean and its undisputable.
It also tests the coach as much as the players. And thats IMO why TML keep losing shootouts. Quinn makes STUPID decisions for his shooter selections. If he had the balls to mix in some of the younger, faster, less predictable players they might actually win one.
I think I could stop one of Allison's tired-ass moves. Heck even Domi would do better (and I've played with him).
Ottawa has been investing in Spezza, as they did with Hossa when he first started playing with them. The Leafs need to do the same thing with Wellwood, Stajan et al. and shootouts in the early season are the best time to do it.

[Daemar]

I don't see anything wrong with a shootout.

Obviously we'd all prefer to see them battle it out to the end, but having Triple 20 min OT games with back to back schedules are pretty hard on players. Plus, networks don't like overlapping the next program. I haven't ever seen a game go past the 3 hour time slot since they started the 5 min OT.

Finally, when i goto a game, I want to see a team WIN. Even if the other team wins, the shootout is a very entertaining way to do it! Would you rather they just flip a coin?

[Carnage]

I just think it's annoying to tie the game, and then award an extra point in a skills competition.