Toronto is better than last year, here's why...

[Shaner]

Everyone is so hell bent on saying that Toronto won't make the playoffs, they suck, they're old, etc, etc, etc. Have you guys even thought about what you're saying.
Lets compare the Leafs of this year to the Leafs of last year (who were a really good team).

The Leafs lost Mogilny, but gained Allison in return.

Comparable players with comparable talent. Allison is often injured, but then again, so is Mogilny. If Allison stays healthy, this move will be the best one the Leafs have made in a long, long time. Allison is a better and younger player than Mogilny, if healthy.

Lost Nieuwendyk, gained Lindros

Lindros is a better player if he stays healthy. It's not even a comparison anymore as Nieuwy is old and was also often injured. Lindros is a power forward is he's healthy, Niuewendyk was not. If Lindros plays even 50 games, this move is great, because Nieuwendyk wouldn't have played more than 50 games.

Lost Roberts, gained Oneil.

I loved Roberts, but he's old and wasn't the warrior he once was. He also wasn't able to put up points anymore. Roberts was a serious injury risk, Oneil is not. Oneil is a great, gritty player who should put up 25-30 goals. He had a bad year with Carolina last year, but that whole team had a bad year. Oneil is not a question mark and is not an injury risk. This is a great move and Oneil is a great player.

Lost Leetch, gained Khavanov.

Ok, this is one that hurt the Leafs. Leetch was great, even at his old age. This will hurt our powerplay and our offense, but Khavanov is a good defender and will be successful in keeping the puck out of the net. He also moves the puck well. Our defense took a step back on this one, but it's not a huge step.

Lost Renberg and Reichel.

THANK GOD!!! It's about time we lost those pylons. They were holding our team back.

Belfour.

He's old and therefore is an injury risk, but if healthy, he'll be an elite goalie in the leage. He's not an acrobatic goalie, he doesn't jump around or dive from post to post. He's always in front of the puck and reads the plays very, very well. He's great if healthy. If injured, we might be in trouble. We don't have a proven backup.

Antropov and Ponikarovsky.

Both these guys are young players with tons of potential. They are huge question marks though. Antropov was supposed to break out 3 years ago, but hasn't yet. Will this be his year? Who knows. If not, the Leafs haven't lost or gained anything, as he didn't do a damn thing before. If he breaks out, it's a huge gain for the Leafs. Ponikarovsky will have a big year. He started to break out of his shell last year. If he gets lots of ice time, expect decent numbers from this guy. He's also somewhat of a power forward. He'll crash and bang and he's not easy to move in the corners or in front of the net. This is added bonus to the Leafs as he keeps getting better and better.

Stajan.

This kid will be better than the last year, obviously. He may not have a huge year, but he'll put up some good numbers for a kid his age. He's a good playmaker too. This will only help the Leafs.

Steen.

Good, young kid. Is better than either of those bums Renberg or Reichel. Can only help the Leafs, he can't hurt them.


So the Leafs are a better team than last year. Even if Lindros and Allison get hurt, it's no different than last year when Mogilny and Nieuwendyk were often hurt.

Also, the Leafs are not an old team. They are not young either, but they're not old.

Belfour is the only old player on the Leafs. Roberts, Niuewendyk, Francis, Reichel, Leetch are all gone. They were old, but that was last year. The Leafs don't have an old team anymore. They will be perfectly fine this year and will have home ice advantage in the playoffs.

[mingming]

It's not a matter of the Leafs being better than last year, it's how other teams improved so much more than the Leafs did over the off-season.

[thelefteyeguy]

Had this argument with a fellow Sens fan 2 weeks ago. It got quite heated.

He had some valid points and so did I. I do agree that the line up on paper is definitely better. The only thing I did agree with him on is the *potential* injury (but mind you...the prev leafs also had lots of injuries).

Leafs defense is really banged up right now.

Without Klee...im quite worried.

[mingming]

Had this argument with a fellow Sens fan 2 weeks ago. It got quite heated.

He had some valid points and so did I. I do agree that the line up on paper is definitely better. The only thing I did agree with him on is the *potential* injury (but mind you...the prev leafs also had lots of injuries).

Leafs defense is really banged up right now.

Without Klee...im quite worried.


Ottawa will ALWAYS find a way to lose to the Leafs.

[Ziggy007]

Renberg and Reichel? Maybe my memory is foggy but they left long before the lockout...

[Dibble]

It's not a matter of the Leafs being better than last year, it's how other teams improved so much more than the Leafs did over the off-season.

I concur.

The Leafs have the scoring power much like they did for the past few years. But the fact is, all the other teams (Ottawa, Boston, Montreal, Buffalo) in their division have improved a heck of a lot with regards to offence and defence. The leafs defence core has probably gotten worse this year than before... and pair that up with rule changes and you've got yourself a high scoring battle - offence vs. offence. The leafs are gambling on a scoring frenzy where they come out on top, and with the looks of it, that might be fairly tough although exciting nonetheless. Then again, that works in favour for someone who's injury prone like Lindros, so who knows.

[poedua]

It's not a matter of the Leafs being better than last year, it's how other teams improved so much more than the Leafs did over the off-season.



I agree 100 %

Saying you're better than the previous year is like looking in the rear view mirror and patting yourself for a job well done - it's a moot point.

The Leafs can be improved and yet still miss the playoffs this year ( even with more talent ) if their improvements catch match the likes of Ottawa and Philly.

Best to look ahead out the front window and see how the road to the Cup has changed - I think Ottawa ands Philly have done that and built their team accordingly.

Take the Leafs..

Goalie
Top 4 defenceman
Top 6 forwards

and compare them to the same from Ottawa, Philly, Boston, Tampa, Pittsburgh & Montreal etc.

Do THAT analysis, not comparing today's Leaf's to yesterday's Leaf's, and you'll see the Leafs are ' average ' at best and can't dominate anyone in that group.

[Carnage]

But the fact is, all the other teams (Ottawa, Boston, Montreal, Buffalo) in their division have improved a heck of a lot with regards to offence and defence.

Buffalo didn't change at all. They're basically the same team minus SAtan and Zhitnik.

The only reason Buffalo gets mentioned as improved is because they're a young fast team who should take advantage of the "new" NHL.

But they're still an average team at best.

[Shaner]

You people are nuts if you think Boston, Montreal, Pittsburgh and Buffalo are better teams than the Leafs.

Montreal is using 6 rookies this year and a couple average veterans. Their best player is Kovalev, who is great when he wants to be, but he often shows a serious lock of intensity. He'll put up good numbers, but he doesn't have anyone around him who can help. Montreal didn't get better this year, not at all. They pobably got wrose.

Buffalo has nobody and won't make the playoffs AGAIN this year.

Pittsburgh changed dramatically, but they still have no proven goaltender,
absolutely no defense and a coach who doesnt' know what he's doing. This team is going to give up about 340 goals this season, and there's no way they will be able to score enough to keep up with the ones they let in. They might make the playoffs if they're lucky.

Philly is a good team that worries me. They are big, strong and skilled. No arguments about them.

Ottawa is good as well, but they have been favoured to win for 5 years now. It's the same thing every year. Sure, they improvided with Heatley, but Hasken isn't much of an improvement. The Sens didn't lose to the Leafs because of Lalime, not at all. Look how many goals the Sens scored in their 4 losses to the leafs in the playoffs last year? They scored 1 goal in 4 losses. They were shutout 3 times in the playoffs, how is that Lalime's fault? He let in 2 bad goals during those 7 games, so how can he be blamed for losing the series? The Sens lost because they weren't good enough, period! Hasek would help if he could steal some games, but he's not the Hasek of old. He won't steal games left and right for the Sens, therefore, they will not be all that much better than last year. One player (Heatley) doesn't make that big of a difference.

Boston is a joke! Every year they do great in the regular season, then they completely fold in the first round of the playoffs. They are not a good team, period!


Listed to what you're saying guys. You're saying "every team has improved so much..." How is that even possible? There's only so many good players to go around, how can every team improve that much?

The Leafs will finish in the top 4. Ottawa, Philly and Tampa Bay will likely win their divisions, rounding ou the top 3, but the Leafs will occupy the 4th spot. They will also be just fine in the playoffs. I hope they don't face Philly until at least the 3rd round, but Ottawa doesn't worry me very much. Every year people say Ottawa is the team to beat, and every year they are the team that gets beaten. What makes you think this year is different?

[bluetroll]

if you went to see the final pre-season game... u'd agree that this guy is correct...

Allison is a monster, very strong on the puck...

and the young guns, steen and stajan, play absolutely amazing together...

poni and antropov... they're great when they decide to play hard....

[Dibble]

if you went to see the final pre-season game... u'd agree that this guy is correct...

Allison is a monster, very strong on the puck...

and the young guns, steen and stajan, play absolutely amazing together...

poni and antropov... they're great when they decide to play hard....

I must say, the games that the Leafs player against Detroit in the pre-season were pretty good.

The thing that worries me the most is the fact that, after this year, what will happen to the Leafs? Most of the best are signed under at least a 3 year contract, and most of our (I'm from Toronto) players that we just signed are on a 1-year contract.

Stajan and Steen are pretty good for young guys, and they'll definitely make a name for themselves with the club over the years. Lets just hope antropov can do something this year.

[Yaowsers]

It's good to have hope but we're finished this season. No playoffs.

[volcomstone]

It's good to have hope but we're finished this season. No playoffs.

lol I highly doubt that....

[Shaner]

It's good to have hope but we're finished this season. No playoffs.

You're not a true Leaf fan

[bluetroll]

It's good to have hope but we're finished this season. No playoffs.

why do you hafta be a negative nancy?

[Panda_Bear]

Robert and Nieuwendyk are players they should have kept. Those guys are warriors!!!

They epitimize the meaning of a true athlete.

Wouldn't say O Neill is better or Lindros for that matter, since Lindros is unproven in the past few years.

[poedua]

I must say, the games that the Leafs player against Detroit in the pre-season were pretty good.

The thing that worries me the most is the fact that, after this year, what will happen to the Leafs? Most of the best are signed under at least a 3 year contract, and most of our (I'm from Toronto) players that we just signed are on a 1-year contract.

Stajan and Steen are pretty good for young guys, and they'll definitely make a name for themselves with the club over the years. Lets just hope antropov can do something this year.


As Belfour goes...so goes the Leafs.

If Belfour goes ' down ', the Leafs are toast IMHO.

Mind you, suppose the same could be said about the Senators Hasek ( 40 ) and his wonky groin that plaqued him since his days in Detroit.

Both teams need to start thinking about finding a goalie for the future - Boston and Montreal have the edge ( goalie age ) in that dept.

[thelefteyeguy]

Robert and Nieuwendyk are players they should have kept. Those guys are warriors!!!

They epitimize the meaning of a true athlete.

Wouldn't say O Neill is better or Lindros for that matter, since Lindros is unproven in the past few years.

here is something leaf fans need to do...move on

those players are past their prime...and way too expensive for their age
lets move on...lets stop with the clark, gilmore nonsense

[Ziggy007]

I wouldn't say that the Leafs are better than last year, I would say they have the potential to be a lot better, or a lot worse.

With last years team we had solid reliable vets. We knew we would have a good team, not amazing, but good. With this years team we have much more talented players, but they have been plagued by injuries so they could go either way. I think O'Neil + Allison will be great, Lindross not so much.

[spike-spiegel]

On paper alone, Leafs should make the playoffs. But they have a lot question marks more so than most teams in the East.

It's not being a true fan of a team or not, it's about being realistic or not.

For example, as an Avs fan, losing Forsberg and Foote was really tough. And I'm have doubts on the depth of their defence and to a lesser extent their offensive depth. And to top it off, the Northwest is arguably the most competitive division top the bottom.

Leafs should look at like this: if everything turns out well (not too many injuries/players up to potential) then Leafs SHOULD make the playoffs, if most/everything turns out bad (many injuries/player not up to potential) then Leafs would not make the playoffs. Usually it's in the between, so Leafs should be on the playoff bubble.

[Carnage]

I'm still kind of worried about that south east division.

Teams like WAshington are going to be bending over and handing those free points over to teams like Tampa.

Meanwhile Ottawa/Toronto/Boston have to go through hell.

[mingming]

Well, what can you do.

It's just pure luck of the draw that all teams in that division are good.

[danfromwaterloo]

Let me preface this rebuttal by saying, I'm a die-hard Leaf fan, and that's who I'm going to be routing for this year, but:


The Leafs lost Mogilny, but gained Allison in return.


Mogilny is IMHO one of the most purely skilled hockey players in the game. There's Lemieux, Jagr, and Mogilny, in my mind. Allison is definitely a quality player when healthy, but I don't think he's at the same level as Mogilny.

Lost Nieuwendyk, gained Lindros

Here we agree. Nieuwendyk WAS a key player to our team, but I think his years as a dominant forward are behind him. If Lindros stays healthy, look for him to eclipse Nieuwendyk's performance in the Blue-and-white.

Lost Roberts, gained Oneil.

Saw-off for now, good for the Leafs in a few years. O'Neill was a quality pick up. He's very much the same player that Roberts is, but younger. Roberts will retire in a few years, leaving the Leafs with O'Neill still. And I'm friends with some of his family, so bonus :)

Lost Leetch, gained Khavanov.

This too made me scratch my head. Leetch is old, but damn, he's probably the best positional defensemen in the game. Lets hope Khavanov can keep up.

Lost Renberg and Reichel.
Disagree, and agree, respectively. Renberg was a good guy to have on the team, and he was almost unbeatable in the corners. He didn't score much, but he was always in there grinding away, digging up lose pucks. It doesn't always translate on the points sheet, but it does on the scoreboard.

Reichel was a divot. Glad to have him gone.

Belfour.

This will be the difference this year. If Belfour can sustain his form from 4 years ago, the Leafs will be fine. Otherwise, I fear we're all screwed. SCREWED I SAY.

Antropov and Ponikarovsky.

This is the last year for Antropov...or as I'm starting to refer to him, AntroPOS. If he doesn't come through this year, he deserves to be shipped off for a draft pick. Ponikarovsky...this kid will eventually be good. Eventually. Hopefully both these kids perform better than in the past.


Stajan.

Steen.


Stajan is going to blossom this year into a very versatile forward. I don't ever see him becoming a scoring leader in the league, but I see him more as a two-way reliable centre, like Jere Lehtinen. Steen, on the other hand, is a future Zetterberg. Look for him to really shine this year. I'm guessing 50-60 points for him (15-20G, 35-40A). They'll also be awesome at the penalty kill...hooking up for several short handed markers.

Toronto fans always wring their hands at the beginning of the year, saying "Oh, we're not good enough." and we always come through - kinda.

[Damen]

As Belfour goes...so goes the Leafs.

If Belfour goes ' down ', the Leafs are toast IMHO.

Mind you, suppose the same could be said about the Senators Hasek ( 40 ) and his wonky groin that plaqued him since his days in Detroit.

Both teams need to start thinking about finding a goalie for the future - Boston and Montreal have the edge ( goalie age ) in that dept.

IMO, Tellquist isn't a bad goalie or has he been forgotten like all our young goalies of the past. The Leafs are notorious for never playing their young goalies. Potvin came out of nowhere when backing up Fuhr, so I think if Belfour went down, Tellquist isn't a bad option. For all we know he could perform better then Belfour, he'll just never be giving the chance.

[nfnx]

You people are nuts if you think Boston, Montreal, Pittsburgh and Buffalo are better teams than the Leafs.

Montreal is using 6 rookies this year and a couple average veterans. Their best player is Kovalev, who is great when he wants to be, but he often shows a serious lock of intensity. He'll put up good numbers, but he doesn't have anyone around him who can help. Montreal didn't get better this year, not at all. They pobably got wrose.

Buffalo has nobody and won't make the playoffs AGAIN this year.

Pittsburgh changed dramatically, but they still have no proven goaltender,
absolutely no defense and a coach who doesnt' know what he's doing. This team is going to give up about 340 goals this season, and there's no way they will be able to score enough to keep up with the ones they let in. They might make the playoffs if they're lucky.

Philly is a good team that worries me. They are big, strong and skilled. No arguments about them.

Ottawa is good as well, but they have been favoured to win for 5 years now. It's the same thing every year. Sure, they improvided with Heatley, but Hasken isn't much of an improvement. The Sens didn't lose to the Leafs because of Lalime, not at all. Look how many goals the Sens scored in their 4 losses to the leafs in the playoffs last year? They scored 1 goal in 4 losses. They were shutout 3 times in the playoffs, how is that Lalime's fault? He let in 2 bad goals during those 7 games, so how can he be blamed for losing the series? The Sens lost because they weren't good enough, period! Hasek would help if he could steal some games, but he's not the Hasek of old. He won't steal games left and right for the Sens, therefore, they will not be all that much better than last year. One player (Heatley) doesn't make that big of a difference.

Boston is a joke! Every year they do great in the regular season, then they completely fold in the first round of the playoffs. They are not a good team, period!


Listed to what you're saying guys. You're saying "every team has improved so much..." How is that even possible? There's only so many good players to go around, how can every team improve that much?

The Leafs will finish in the top 4. Ottawa, Philly and Tampa Bay will likely win their divisions, rounding ou the top 3, but the Leafs will occupy the 4th spot. They will also be just fine in the playoffs. I hope they don't face Philly until at least the 3rd round, but Ottawa doesn't worry me very much. Every year people say Ottawa is the team to beat, and every year they are the team that gets beaten. What makes you think this year is different?


i couldnt agree more with that. althoguh boston may be 4th and us 5th. thats what it will probably be, but if we are all in the division and all beat eachother up one may fall below to the 7 th or 8th spot.

tampa will def win the conferance because of they lousy lousy divison.
aw well..thats how it flows.. in 5 years, maybe they will have more comp.



I must say, the games that the Leafs player against Detroit in the pre-season were pretty good.

The thing that worries me the most is the fact that, after this year, what will happen to the Leafs? Most of the best are signed under at least a 3 year contract, and most of our (I'm from Toronto) players that we just signed are on a 1-year contract.

Stajan and Steen are pretty good for young guys, and they'll definitely make a name for themselves with the club over the years. Lets just hope antropov can do something this year.


jfj is smart. he is freeing up a lot of room and we are gonna have a clean slate to work with next year keeping our core guys and youth and then adding free agents to fill the voids. w belfour and mccabelikely gone by seasons end... look for us to LOAD UP on quality players next year... LUONGO! haha

[Carnage]

They'll also be awesome at the penalty kill...hooking up for several short handed markers.
.

They looked pretty good against Detroit. Hopefully they keep it up.

Kind of reminded me of the good old days of Mogilny/Sundin on the PK. Those 2 were deadly on the PK, and were always close to breaking out on breakaways.

[coopaloop]

The Leafs are a .500 team that's about it....I wouldn't even say there in the "top 4" teams in Canada....
And I'm a leaf fan!!!.So I'm hoping that I'm 100% wrong.. GO LEAFS GO!!

[poedua]

i couldnt agree more with that. althoguh boston may be 4th and us 5th. thats what it will probably be, but if we are all in the division and all beat eachother up one may fall below to the 7 th or 8th spot.

tampa will def win the conferance because of they lousy lousy divison.
aw well..thats how it flows.. in 5 years, maybe they will have more comp.






jfj is smart. he is freeing up a lot of room and we are gonna have a clean slate to work with next year keeping our core guys and youth and then adding free agents to fill the voids. w belfour and mccabelikely gone by seasons end... look for us to LOAD UP on quality players next year... LUONGO! haha

There aren't as many good players to choose from in 2006 as there once was.

Here are some of the 'cream of the crop ' of those players that were scheduled to be unrestricted free agents in 2006 - that Ferguson / Leafs were eyeing to possibly pick up in 2006 - noticed which ones have already signed in 2005.


Joe Thornton,.............. signed 3 year deal
Vincent Lecavalier........ signed 4 year deal
Jose Theodore,............ signed 3 year deal
Ed Jovanovski,............ unknown ?
Wade Redden,............. Ottawa trying to sign by January
Zdeno Chara,.............. Ottawa trying to sign by January
Sergei Samsonov,........ signed 1 year deal
Jarome Iginla,............. signed 3 year deal
Marty Turco,.............. signed 3 year deal
Ryan Smyth,.............. signed 2 year deal
Patrick Elias............... signed 1 year deal
Evgeni Nabokov,......... free agent in 2006
Chris Pronger ............ signed 5 year deal
Patrick Marleau.......... signed 2 year deal

What was John Ferguson waiting for ...he should have known there was no guarantee these guys would still be around in 2006...and should have spent money more wisely ( i.e Domi ? ) in 2005 IMHO.

[Daemar]

Toronto's Wade Belak didn't play because of a spider bite.

LOL. :lol:

[d_jedi]

IMO, Tellquist isn't a bad goalie or has he been forgotten like all our young goalies of the past. The Leafs are notorious for never playing their young goalies. Potvin came out of nowhere when backing up Fuhr, so I think if Belfour went down, Tellquist isn't a bad option. For all we know he could perform better then Belfour, he'll just never be giving the chance.
He was given the chance when Belfour was injured/taking a game off.. Tellquist isn't a goalie who will win games for you, Belfour is.. just ask Team Sweden!

[d_jedi]

I think the Leafs have the potential to do better than they did last year (but then, comparing potential performance to actual performance is apples to oranges). However, there are many question marks.. the biggest one being if everyone can stay healthy.

I think we lost more than we gained, though, over the free agent period.. Shaner, your analysis in OP leaves out Owen Nolan.. sure, he didn't play all that well the past couple of years in a Leaf jersey, but he still did have a lot of potential. With Aki Berg and Wade Belak as our 3-4 or 4-5th defensemen, something is seriously wrong. I also wonder how well Lindros will hold up throughout the season.. tonight whenever he got hit, I flinched.. remember, one more big hit (concussion) and that's probably his career.

At the same time that the Leafs have not improved (even getting a bit worse), the Sens and Philly have gotten better, Philly especially. In all, I don't see this as a year where the Leafs will make a serious run for the Stanley Cup.. they should make the playoffs, provided the injury bug doesn't hit them too hard, though.

[nfnx]

Toronto's Wade Belak didn't play because of a spider bite.

LOL. :lol:



i think hes better than berg though

[Rometiklan]

Toronto's Wade Belak didn't play because of a spider bite.

LOL. :lol:

If the spider were radioactive, maybe the bite will give Belak some actual skill.

[poedua]

I think the Leafs have the potential to do better than they did last year (but then, comparing potential performance to actual performance is apples to oranges). However, there are many question marks.. the biggest one being if everyone can stay healthy.

I think we lost more than we gained, though, over the free agent period.. Shaner, your analysis in OP leaves out Owen Nolan.. sure, he didn't play all that well the past couple of years in a Leaf jersey, but he still did have a lot of potential. With Aki Berg and Wade Belak as our 3-4 or 4-5th defensemen, something is seriously wrong. I also wonder how well Lindros will hold up throughout the season.. tonight whenever he got hit, I flinched.. remember, one more big hit (concussion) and that's probably his career.

At the same time that the Leafs have not improved (even getting a bit worse), the Sens and Philly have gotten better, Philly especially. In all, I don't see this as a year where the Leafs will make a serious run for the Stanley Cup.. they should make the playoffs, provided the injury bug doesn't hit them too hard, though.

I think there's going to be a lot more power plays in the early part of the year. The Leafs were 19th in the NHL last year on the penaly kill - so let's hope some of these new guys will help out in that department at least - and although their power play was 4th in the league - they've lost Leetch, so that may drop a bit.

The question is whether losing the likes of Nolan, Niewendyk, Roberts, & Mogilny, Leetch is adequatley compensated by additions of the likes of Lindros, Steen, Allison and O 'Neil...I think the best you could argue is that on the skill of the forwards have stayed the same.

But I agree with you on defence - the skill of Leetch wasn't replaced and the rest of the defense, 3 - 8, are 'average' at best - and they were 15th in 'goals against' last year. This could be a real weak spot if they make the playoffs

I've always believed that old saying to be true.....


"Offense wins compliments, defense wins championships,"