Who here things the Leafs are the worst Canadian team this year?

[2000fordfocus]

letz put it this way, I like all Canadian teams, I wish them well!! But the Toronto maple leafs, they really need some new manage here!

The first order of business, IMO, is a new coach! This guy had been around for how many years? and still no real progress~~ I mean a final round in the stanley cup for once would be nice...

and whatz with Tie Domi? the only reason to keep him is his low salary~ The leaf need some youth here, there lineup are way too old.

Looking at Calgary, Van, Haps, and Sens, they are in way better positiion. Hack, even the oilers get Prongler/Peca! OKOK, they can blame it on the new salary cap, but look at previous years, they are no contender for the cup anyways...

Toronto maple leafs are hopeless, unless they do something about it next year.

[rdtx2002]

letz put it this way, I like all Canadian teams, I wish them well!! But the Toronto maple leafs, they really need some new manage here!

The first order of business, IMO, is a new coach! This guy had been around for how many years? and still no real progress~~ I mean a final round in the stanley cup for once would be nice...

and whatz with Tie Domi? the only reason to keep him is his low salary~ The leaf need some youth here, there lineup are way too old.

Looking at Calgary, Van, Haps, and Sens, they are in way better positiion. Hack, even the oilers get Prongler/Peca! OKOK, they can blame it on the new salary cap, but look at previous years, they are no contender for the cup anyways...

Toronto maple leafs are hopeless, unless they do something about it next year.


1. Pat Quinn was in the STanley Cup Finals once with Vancouver.. so .. get your facts straight

2. Tie Domi some would agree is a PR signing.. but he does show some amounts of offensive talent.. you can't be an enforcer and also score about 12 goals too.

The leafs are not hopeless unless you are a hater. ;)

[roguechameleon]

...and in conclusion.... burn leafs burn.

[Carnage]

I honestly think the Leafs are going to be better this year then their critics give them credit.

I'm not giving up hope entirely.

However that being said I'll agree that they look like the worst Canadian team. Well I'd put Montreal/Edmonton close to Toronto. In Edmonton's case their goaltending could be iffy.

Things could change alot by the time playoffs start. Alot can happen. Say in Calgary Kipper and Iggy go down with serious injuries? Are they still a great contender? Same with Vancouver if Naslund/Bertuzii go down? I know these are all unlikely to happen, but the fact remains that we're still 82 games away from the playoffs. Anything can happen.

[2000fordfocus]

1. Pat Quinn was in the STanley Cup Finals once with Vancouver.. so .. get your facts straight

2. Tie Domi some would agree is a PR signing.. but he does show some amounts of offensive talent.. you can't be an enforcer and also score about 12 goals too.

The leafs are not hopeless unless you are a hater. ;)


BTW, I am a leafs fan... is just frustrating seeing them going toward a downhill slope like this~~~

So whatz the point of having him(Pat) again? People in Toronto had been waiting and waiting~~

And the Tie Domi issue, hmm.... It seems toronto has no real score! and too many enforcer than~ only Sundin has consistence~ Just look at Sens and Canucks, they have Spezza, Halvat, Heatley vs. Naslund, Morrisan, Sundin brothers... with mogliney and whatz his name traded away, no real fire power(except for sundin)...

[skanji]

I agree with Dean Brown on this one. As much as I despise the leafs, without them, the NHL is worse off. Specifically, if they don't get into the playoffs, the eyes of the sports world are less prone to watching the game of hockey.

Count the Rangers in this boat too.

With all of that said, I think it's about time that the leafs take the one (or two) steps back in order to move forward. The thing is, it looks like this won't be a one or two year problem. A complete rebuilding of the franchise is necessary. There is virtually nothing in the farm system...

It's like this team really needs to build from scratch.

[rdtx2002]

BTW, I am a leafs fan... is just frustrating seeing them going toward a downhill slope like this~~~

So whatz the point of having him(Pat) again? People in Toronto had been waiting and waiting~~

And the Tie Domi issue, hmm.... It seems toronto has no real score! and too many enforcer than~ only Sundin has consistence~ Just look at Sens and Canucks, they have Spezza, Halvat, Heatley vs. Naslund, Morrisan, Sundin brothers... with mogliney and whatz his name traded away, no real fire power(except for sundin)...


last i heard.. Allison, Lindros, and O'Neill can each pop in 20+ goals.

[sportsfan99]

The leafs will be fine but don't fool you selfs thinking there going to have a great year they won't.They will grab the 5th play-off spot.

[rdtx2002]

I agree with Dean Brown on this one. As much as I despise the leafs, without them, the NHL is worse off. Specifically, if they don't get into the playoffs, the eyes of the sports world are less prone to watching the game of hockey.

Count the Rangers in this boat too.

With all of that said, I think it's about time that the leafs take the one (or two) steps back in order to move forward. The thing is, it looks like this won't be a one or two year problem. A complete rebuilding of the franchise is necessary. There is virtually nothing in the farm system...

It's like this team really needs to build from scratch.


it's starting.. and it's showing with all the youngsters like Steen, Stajan, Kronwall, Wozneuski, and Coliacavo being with the team still

[yayawhoo2003]

The Leafs may not look good on paper but will come thorugh!!!!

Ottawa, Philly seem to have more depth on both offence and defence but thats only on paper.. There are only so many goals to go around, and I think the leafs offensive game will be more balanced and better than any other east team this year. I look for mats to get at least 40 this year. Count LIndros and Allison for another 50 between them and you have a pretty balanced attack.

[skanji]

it's starting.. and it's showing with all the youngsters like Steen, Stajan, Kronwall, Wozneuski, and Coliacavo being with the team still

true, but take a look at the Sens farm system and do a comparison (perhaps that is an unfair comparison).

The point is, all of the trades and signings through the years that have cost the leafs draft pics and their youngsters (McCauley, etc...) is costing them now.

I wonder if the leafs would have done a HeatleySundin trade?

[rdtx2002]

true, but take a look at the Sens farm system and do a comparison (perhaps that is an unfair comparison).

The point is, all of the trades and signings through the years that have cost the leafs draft pics and their youngsters (McCauley, etc...) is costing them now.

I wonder if the leafs would have done a HeatleySundin trade?

you said it yourself.. it is an unfair comparion because the Sens have been riding the bottom of the league for many years.. that helps to build a good farm system. Lets not get over excited.. the Leafs do have some stuff in the farm.. especially their D-Core.. just not much up front.. and we draft our goalie of the future in Rask.

there have been questionable moves.. but the pressure from the fans and media to win all the time maybe have forced some ill-advised deals.

Heatley for Sundin?.. maybe.. but who knows.. i'd probably do it ;)

[skanji]

I think the leafs offensive game will be more balanced and better than any other east team this year. I look for mats to get at least 40 this year. Count LIndros and Allison for another 50 between them and you have a pretty balanced attack.

wow....better than any team in the East?

how many goals do you anticipate:
a) Spezza, Heatley, Alfie, Havlat and Mezaros to score (we haven't even mentioned Redden or Chara)
b) what about Gagne, Carter, Richards, Forsberg, Primeau, and Handzeus

[rdtx2002]

wow....better than any team in the East?

how many goals do you anticipate:
a) Spezza, Heatley, Alfie, Havlat and Mezaros to score (we haven't even mentioned Redden or Chara)
b) what about Gagne, Carter, Richards, Forsberg, Primeau, and Handzeus

i kinda think Forsberg is going to ride the IR most of the season.. just a gut feeling.

the only real weakness i see in Ottawa is 2 things:

1. Hasek (and yes.. Belfour for the Leafs)
2. the cloud over their heads that is the Leafs.

[skanji]

you said it yourself.. it is an unfair comparion because the Sens have been riding the bottom of the league for many years.. that helps to build a good farm system. Lets not get over excited.. the Leafs do have some stuff in the farm.. especially their D-Core.. just not much up front.. and we draft our goalie of the future in Rask.

there have been questionable moves.. but the pressure from the fans and media to win all the time maybe have forced some ill-advised deals.

Heatley for Sundin?.. maybe.. but who knows.. i'd probably do it ;)

No, it's an unfair comparison as our Scouts are in the top of the league... many of our best pics have come in the 3rd round onwards. BTW, we have made the playoffs for the past 6 years or so. We haven't had *that* many high pics recently...

As for letting the leafs management off the hook (not saying that you did), but who controls the team? The media? The fans? Or the management???

[Rometiklan]

letz put it this way, I like all Canadian teams, I wish them well!! But the Toronto maple leafs, they really need some new manage here!

The first order of business, IMO, is a new coach! This guy had been around for how many years? and still no real progress~~ I mean a final round in the stanley cup for once would be nice...

and whatz with Tie Domi? the only reason to keep him is his low salary~ The leaf need some youth here, there lineup are way too old.

Looking at Calgary, Van, Haps, and Sens, they are in way better positiion. Hack, even the oilers get Prongler/Peca! OKOK, they can blame it on the new salary cap, but look at previous years, they are no contender for the cup anyways...

Toronto maple leafs are hopeless, unless they do something about it next year.

The Leafs are, in part, victims of their own high spending ways. Before the salary cap, they were signing high profile players to even higher salaries. Now with the cap in place, the Leafs are forced to revamp a lot of their roster, and settle for some risky players with lower salaries. They had to get rid of some pretty good players to make room under the cap. I don't think it's a co-incidence that Canadian teams like Edmonton, and Calgary, who have been traditionally frugal out of necessity, are now reaping the benefits of a salary cap.

[skanji]

the only real weakness i see in Ottawa is 2 things:
1. Hasek (and yes.. Belfour for the Leafs)
2. the cloud over their heads that is the Leafs.

Even the most diehard of Sens fans will agree with that one. Although, so much has changed. Also, the only year we didn't play the leafs in the playoffs, we were 2 minutes and change from heading to the finals...consider it the Sens "leafs-gretz-damn-you" moment!!

Here's hoping the leafs don't get in for that one reason...

[rdtx2002]

No, it's an unfair comparison as our Scouts are in the top of the league... many of our best pics have come in the 3rd round onwards. BTW, we have made the playoffs for the past 6 years or so. We haven't had *that* many high pics recently...

As for letting the leafs management off the hook (not saying that you did), but who controls the team? The media? The fans? Or the management???

and did you also fail to realize that the Leaf just revamped their WHOLE scouting staff last time hockey was played ;)

i don't let the leafs off the hook.. would i have liked to have a team like the Sens.. sure.

[sleepyguy]

why change... they sell out every game anyway... Torontonians just want to see hockey... just like Tim Hortons imho... doesn't matter if they're good or not... they just go like zombies.

i would say yeah... they look to be dead last.

[sportsfan99]

last i heard.. Allison, Lindros, and O'Neill can each pop in 20+ goals.

Both allison and lindros are injury prone.You lose both of them for a good amount of games it could be a long season.

[rdtx2002]

Both allison and lindros are injury prone.You lose both of them for a good amount of games it could be a long season.

injury prove.. sure.. but so is Forsberg, and other major star that has had a load on injuries

if Allison and Lindros are healthy and we hope they are.. the Leafs will actually look ok.. if not.. it'll be a long season.. it's no secret.. but it's high risk high reward proposition.

Allison is less injury prone that people think.. his last injury was a nerve injury.. not a concussion that people thought it was

[skanji]

not to hijack the thread, but if I were a leaf fan (*shudders*), I'd want to do some research and find out how the hell we got to this point.

I'd be mighty pissed at leaf scouts/management for CONSISTENTLY bad pics through the years...

check this link out (Sens draft pics)http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr000054.html

Take a look at where Alfie, Bochenski and Schubert were drafted... also, virtually all of our first rounders have contributed as a starter on the Sens.

Now take a look at the leafs (careful, this could hurt...):
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr000038.html

Look back at the same timeframe...(past 15 years or so).

Point is, in a city where money wasn't an issue for so long (it still isn't), why not BUY some better scouts and management?? I know it happened this year, but where was the vision over the past 10-15 years? Ballard's been dead for a while...

ah well - too bad the toronto media misses this sort of thing.

[sportsfan99]

injury prove.. sure.. but so is Forsberg, and other major star that has had a load on injuries

if Allison and Lindros are healthy and we hope they are.. the Leafs will actually look ok.. if not.. it'll be a long season.. it's no secret.. but it's high risk high reward proposition.

Allison is less injury prone that people think.. his last injury was a nerve injury.. not a concussion that people thought it was

Allision is under going treatment for his last injury that happend this summer.

[spike-spiegel]

Even as a non-Leafs lover here, I have to admit that Leafs aren't as bad as they look. If if if their risky signings (Allison, Lindros) can contribute then they have a very deep forwards lineup.

But their defense and goaltending is questionable. Who knows what's up with Belfour's wonky back. I have to agree with most critics out there, Leafs should be fighting for the playoffs all season.

And they do look like the worst Canadian team on paper. Montreal's sheer speed and quickness even with lack of size should be a surprising success in the new NHL.

[Carnage]

Allision is under going treatment for his last injury that happend this summer.

I wouldn't really call that a sign of being injury prone.

When you haven't played hockey in 2 years the chance of getting muscle pulls are greater as you try and get back into game shape.

I'm sure he'll be fine.

[Carnage]

I have to agree with most critics out there, Leafs should be fighting for the playoffs all season.


There could be more teams then Toronto fighting for playoff postions due to the new schedule.

Playing division rivals 8 times only stregnthens the better teams in the south east.

Those average teams that now cash in on getting to play Washington more often. the same advantage that let Tampa cake walk into top stop in the east just got stronger.

So teams like Ottawa,Toronto,Philly,Boston,etc are going to have a harder time earning points then someone like Tampa.

[gordholio]

EDMONTON is the worst Canadian team - they have no scoring and a suspect goalie.

[gordholio]

why change... they sell out every game anyway... Torontonians just want to see hockey... just like Tim Hortons imho... doesn't matter if they're good or not... they just go like zombies.

i would say yeah... they look to be dead last.
Hey, Tim Hortons makes good coffee! :)

[2000fordfocus]

If the leaf were to count on new addition like Lindros, I am sure the leafs will fall!!!

This guy was useless for the past few years, i don't see how he can do any better in Toronto~

I like the O'neil deal, this guy is strong! but Lindros....

[wanted]

Raptors are the worst Canadian team!

[Carnage]

If the leaf were to count on new addition like Lindros, I am sure the leafs will fall!!!

This guy was useless for the past few years, i don't see how he can do any better in Toronto~

I like the O'neil deal, this guy is strong! but Lindros....

We're not depending on Lindross luckilly.

He's going to be at best our 3rd line center, though most likely a 4th line checking center if Steen/Stajan keep getting better.

If he doesn't return to form then we don't lose much at all. But if he does return to form then we end up winning. Even not in his prime I wouldn't mind having someone like Lindross on my 4th line.

Allison is the one that we are more depending on. Luckilly contrary to what everyone thinks he's not all that injury prone.

[nfnx]

last i heard.. Allison, Lindros, and O'Neill can each pop in 20+ goals.

czerkawski can get 20 as well, tucker if hes playin w/ allison or sundin.... a lot of peopel are overlooking the leafs offense. ive said it before, we are only counting on one of allison or lindros to play well... and if they do we'll have two fanchise centermen including sundin to lead our top two lines. stajan as a 3rd or 4th line centerman w/ steen this year will be fabulous. i wish steen would get more icetime cause im sure he'll play exceptionally well... but he AND lindros may be limited w/ mintues because of their respective lines.

mccabe, sundin, allison, lindros, oneil (playin point as he has in the past) is one deadly powerplay unit...

kaberle, klee, czerkawski, tucker, steen is a respectable second line as well... (just puttin in random players)..

mix those up and we have 2 deadly powerplay units

our only flaw is on D and thats been talked about already.


it's starting.. and it's showing with all the youngsters like Steen, Stajan, Kronwall, Wozneuski, and Coliacavo being with the team still

the marlies have the best D in the league. we have a handful of young goalies in development, and wellwood to look forward to in the future. if we start now, its not too late to develop a lot... leafs farm team will be amazing this year.



as for everyone bashing JFJ, the only mistake he has made so far was sign belfour. im over at hockeynations and code... JFJ is actually impressing al ot of people with his recent moves.... he realizes there are holes in mccabes and antropovs game and they are expected to be moved soon.

leaf fans dont worry... JFJ has a plan and from what i see in the insiders forum, its gonna be fine for us within the next year.

[2000fordfocus]

you leafs fan need to get real.... this team will be hanging on for the last playoff spot~

I just hope other canadian teams do well, like flames/sens, perhaps the canucks can finally crack and go all the way!